Anyone else seeing an issue with companies going "China" on us?

[64pontiac]

Sorry for the lapse in posting....we had to let our media guy go. Its a position I need to fill again, and have a ton of need for, but the individual that had that spot took advantage of myself and our Company....so its been voided. My apologies to anyone who was caught up in the downward spiral, I think we have gotten on top of all the misinformation and returned all the appropriate calls etc. If I missed anyone, please EMAIL me at info@hpicustoms.


Anyways, back to my rant. I am not at all trying to out anyone in particular, or criticize America or anyone in it, just complaining about a common problem for the sake of open discussion. So to my question....... WHY does seemingly every company work so damn hard to develop and R&D killer products, develop a huge following, carve out a niche etc, and most of the time riding on the back of the phrase "Made in America" and then fall off the wagon?????

As small businesses, we strive so hard to do things the right way and ourselves, and if we have to farm out we support as local as possible. Obviously these parts producers are at least somewhat profitable like this, or they wouldnt get any larger or continue to grow. But then it seems they hit a turning point and seem to SECRETLY and quietly start having things made in China, Taiwan, Korea, etc and contiue to ride the coattails of Made in America????? These are what I would consider large brands too, that we idolize and covet as the best possible.

It seems the more of an icon they are, or if they have any of the key American words or States in their name, it becomes even more common? What gives???

At the end of the day, being someone who understands what goes into it, quality control, etc I would MUCH rather pay a bit more for a part that is OFFICIALLY made on home soil. Maybe it doesnt ensure that the quality is that much better, but what it does ensure is that it is almost as sure as rain RELIABLE and AVAILABLE. I'm so sick of excuses and delays only to realize the ship isnt unloaded yet, or that it is now unavailable because that factory shut down. Lets try and bring the process back home people...... everyone I am talking about has hundreds of thousands to millions worth of equipment, facility, and tooling to continue to make these products at home, and for those steps and process that they cannot do, your neighbor in your city, state, or the next one over can. We know you have the equipment to R&D and devolop the parts, keep it running and make the bloody things!

It sucks when you come up with a product that revolutionizes an idea or solution to the point where nobody even tries to compete, have us plan on using it in our builds, and then say oops....not available! I'm pretty understanding and sympathetic to the whole process....I can't keep up with my own demands let alone Summits market, but I also don't have a million dollar facility or a staff payroll that trumps most shops gross income for the year.....

Like alot of you, I have parts that I ordered and payed for in November that still are not here...... from multiple LARGE companies. Come on people.... step it up!

Thoughts?

[DavidBoren]

I, personally, do not care where a product is manufactured, so long as it is manufactured correctly. And I am dubious of the shortcuts required to ship a product half way around the world, and still offer it for a lower price than an indigenous competitor.

There isn't much you can do when companies still claim to uphold a higher standard of manufacturing, yet source out assembly/labor or small part building to cheaper facilities with lower standards. It's almost impossible to reliably follow that paper trail with any amount of certainty, so you have to trust the advertising and hope "made in where-ever" still means what you want it to.

That being said, we all know you get what you pay for. A lot of people try save a buck, and then cry "made in China"... it's not fair.

I am all for supporting local business. And it's great in theory. But the reality of this day and age is that we are a global market. It doesn't matter if you want to build local, and do business with the ma & pop machine shop in your old neighborhood... your competitors want profit, so they outsource, and you go out of business.

That is reality today, so we have to use the information available to us, and make well informed choices where we spend our money. If a company is putting cheap sh!t in their products, that information will get out, and it's up to you as a consumer to read reviews and do the research.

That's my take on it, at least.

[64pontiac]

I agree and see where you are coming from...but what sparked this wasn't ever a quality issue in this case. Its an issue rather of a part that we came to rely on and use religiously (for the most part this group as a whole) that is now simply NOT available. Why? One simple piece of the puzzle, and I guess we the public didnt buy enough for them to be bothered to try and make it here..... seems weird, as the products price has gone up in the last 10 years by 75%, so you know the profit margin is there.....

Now we are stuck with not great solutions..... or stock.

In this one case, I feel if there is never going to be a replacement at all, and we know what 95% of the pieces are, just make the last bit public knowledge and leave it up to us. If your going to let it die, share it?

[Build-It-Break-it]

There is no such thing as made in the USA anymore. Cars are built with overseas parts (all cars), computers, shoes, cell phones, tvs,welders, refrigerators, replacement car sheet metal, etc etc. Even tho a business can claim made in America there doing it with overseas tools and equipment even if they don't know or care to admit it so what does it matter. There isn't anything that's 100% American made here with American equipment, cars, tools, electronics etc. Even miller welders took "made in the USA" off of there products, I wonder why. Things are meant to break now a days otherwise how would anyone make money?

For every one person who wants "made in the USA" there is 5 thousand people who don't care and would rather save money. The economy still isn't fully recovered and people just don't have money like they use to, or if they do they're more conscious as to how much they're spending and on what.

Immigrants dont help either. If your not born here what would they care about made in the USA. They're here for other reasons. This country is full of immigrants and the number is still climbing. Nothing wrong with it but things have changed because of it.

I say buy what's best for yourself and as a company do what's best to keep the quality,price affordable and feed your family. But if things were only being made here in the USA there would just be a domino effect of other events to come for people to still keep complaining.

[SWAPMEETCRAZY]

Tyler, I can remember the "china" issue being written about in either hot rod or carcraft mags over 15 years ago.....one of the "major companies" here was quoted as saying how there products were "made in America"......6 months later I buy one of there chrome breathers ....flip over lid and a big "made in china" sticker.......never forget my "WTF"'S AND A FEW OTHER CHOICE WORDS.......and yes it was Moroso.....jim

[64pontiac]

SWAPMEET..... yeah, went throught that after waiting 6 months for an oil pan from Milodon who kept saying they were making it..... then at the end told us that it isnt being made by their Chinese plant anymore. Go figure.

Anyways, I am just frustrated. I keep paying and waiting only to be disappointed time and time again. When you buy the lower priced stuff you expect it, but when you buy the premium stuff you dont.....until now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a stranger to this. I know how it works, and I know why they do it, but sometimes after all the waiting and lies etc I figure that they could have sold the part more than enough in the 6 months they were waiting to offset the cost of welding it up here.

And I always expect the connectors, wire, grommets, hardware, and little things to be offshore regardless of who it is or what its advertised as.... but when it becomes even the CNC machined piece of aluminum, or the laser cut bracket, or the mandrel bent tube....all the pieces that even small guys like me are capable of doing IN HOUSE, then you throw your hands up and say WTF

[Flash68]

seems weird, as the products price has gone up in the last 10 years by 75%, so you know the profit margin is there.....



Maybe the cost of the materials for said product went up by 80%?

[DavidBoren]

You pretty much have to take the chance a couple times until you have a list of trustees, and avoid straying from that list whenever possible. It sucks, but it's what we do with everything in life. You don't go to the store that sells sour milk, you don't go to the dentist that pulls the wrong tooth, and you don't buy from the American part manufacturer that uses sh!tty Chinese bolts/A-arms/whatever it is.

[bdahlg68]

You pretty much have to take the chance a couple times until you have a list of trustees, and avoid straying from that list whenever possible. It sucks, but it's what we do with everything in life. You don't go to the store that sells sour milk, you don't go to the dentist that pulls the wrong tooth, and you don't buy from the American part manufacturer that uses sh!tty Chinese bolts/A-arms/whatever it is.

Having been to China more times than is reasonable I must say that there is actually very capable sources there. The issue with China sourcing (or really any of Asia) is that it takes an extraordinary amount of effort and oversight to execute. That effort and oversight doesn't end when you find someone that "can" make the part. You have to stay on top of it and be persistent and thorough on each order and each shipment. I believe many companies fail to plan for just how much continued effort there is and because of this, unknowingly over commit to their customers.

[JB400]

The majority of the ones that care about American made products are the Chinese. Pretty bad when the largest upcoming industry country would rather have foreign made products instead of their own. :flag2:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

you just never know....

[dhutton]

Having been to China more times than is reasonable I must say that there is actually very capable sources there. The issue with China sourcing (or really any of Asia) is that it takes an extraordinary amount of effort and oversight to execute. That effort and oversight doesn't end when you find someone that "can" make the part. You have to stay on top of it and be persistent and thorough on each order and each shipment. I believe many companies fail to plan for just how much continued effort there is and because of this, unknowingly over commit to their customers.

Very well said. I have been involved with sourcing manufacturing and design in China (and India, Taiwan, Korea etc) for many years and this is exactly the case. Plenty of capabilities and capacity there, it just has to be properly managed and executed.

Don

[Graham08]

The thing that really scares me about things sourced offshore is the part you can't see. Meaning, you can generally look at a product and see if it's manufactured correctly from a machining, welding, and build quality standpoint, but you're trusting the supplier when it comes to metallurgy and heat treatment. And, many times material "certifications" from offshore are the same copy Xeroxed thousands of times--no actual testing has taken place.

I have experienced this myself with Chinese "4130" tubing. Bending 1-1/2" x 0.058" wall just works with domestic tube. Occasionally the inside of the bend will wrinkle a bit because the wall thickness is right at the point where it's too thin to do without a mandrel. A buddy brought over some Chinese stuff for me to bend, and it got to about 45 degrees and collapsed. I'm not sure exactly what was different, but it obviously wasn't as strong as what I was used to dealing with.

I've started paying more and buying from trusted suppliers to ensure things like 4130 tubing and fasteners are coming from domestic or trusted offshore sources for this reason. By trusted offshore, I mean companies with actual names in western Europe or Taiwan, not generic "China" or "India". Losing a race car because of a fastener or material failure is a hell of a lot more expensive than paying the extra few bucks for the good stuff in the first place.

[kwhizz]

It's going to take a while for the Global Economy to balance out..........Lot's of issues that come into the Blend ..........Government regulations, Highest Corporate Taxes in the World.... Unions, Ambulance Chasing Lawyers going for the Settlement are just a Few.......If you own a business......you will take the path of least resistance......Supply and Demand.......

Ken

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

And to think they got mad at me at pt.com for saying this same thing except saying that they copy even as small a company as PMC

I guess this opinion just isnt the more popular one.

[DavidBoren]

Oh, you can find plenty capable people anywhere you go. And most even partially developed countries have the resources to produce well-made products. I mean, America is still known for the quality of steel we produced 100 years ago, I would think that same technology (100 year old industrial revolution technology) has made its way to China by now. Which means that they should be producing steel at least as good as American steel from 100 years ago, but they aren't.

This isn't a discussion of potential, it's a discussion about the actual poor quality products being produced as a result of outsourcing. Whether it's from piss poor planning, lack of resources or training, it doesn't matter what part of the operation is failing. The result is the same, and that's products of poor quality.

If humanity was worth half a sh!t, we would bring industry and jobs to these countries to help their economies and infrastructure, instead of exploiting them for cheap labor. Then, everywhere would be a developed nation, everyone could be expected to produce equally high quality products, and then you have worldwide trade and commerce between equally developed nations. But no, we are too concerned with imagery lines in the sand, who's diety is better, and who has more shiny things.

And until we can get past that, I think we are stuck with products of dubious origins, made to meet questionable (if existent) quality standards. China should be more than able to produce the exact same quality of products as America, and still do it cheaper, because they don't have environmental protection laws. So factories there don't have to waste money recycling waste. All the cost of not raping the planet is reflected on to the customer, and BRIC, these fastest developing countries that were mentioned earlier, do not abide by any such environmental laws. So they are undercutting the rest of the civilized world, because Europe and America at least try not be so blatant with our disposal of industrial waste, so it costs more for us to produce the same thing.

[Build-It-Break-it]

And to think they got mad at me at pt.com for saying this same thing except saying that they copy even as small a company as PMC

I guess this opinion just isnt the more popular one.


Going into everyone's for sale thread and bashing a member for selling parts you don't agree with is different then starting a thread like an adult to discuss the topic. There's very few ideas that are truly original.

I think this thread was more along the lines of companies initially starting off selling things made in the USA then slowly outsourcing there product to be made overseas but keeping the "made in the USA" sales pitch without informing customers .

I still don't think it's the companies job to inform the customer of every move they make. It's the customers job to do there own research even if that means calling the manufacturer and asking questions like everyone should. I do it all the time.

[64pontiac]

All very well said comments. It is nice to be able to have an adult conversation, as you have put it. I too agree that there is good and even great stuff that comes out of overseas production. Take a look at most OEM components for vehicles....its all from over there. Here is the key difference - how does the company that is outsourcing CONTROL and OVERSEE the process, as well as the technology that is being put into it? When it comes down to the price of production and that ONLY then it can slip, big time.


Case in point.... something simple like a stereo. Any of the big manufacturers (even aftermarket) have nice clean displays, great graphics, great functionality and features. Compare that to a no name brand that is just bringing out a model to undercut or even compete WITHOUT the QC, they suck. Not even a comparison.

Back to the oil pans (which was not what sparked me to talk about this, but just one of many examples) in the typical small block oil pan selection, I challenge you to show me the difference between the RPC/CFR/ETC pan and the Moroso or Milodon counterpart. There is no difference, so it ended up going the way of china purely for price, and probably in the same plant, same line. I would think there is no one over there keeping an eye on it, nor do they care. IF it went over because the price was more controlled, but they had something more to offer from it other than an overinflated price, then I can understand.

The more complex the product or process, and I can be even more sympathetic to it having to have been sourced out. The sad part is that there are a ton of small companies that will produce a similar part right here, and have a brilliant high quality piece, and somehow they can make it work. It just seems so *ssbackwards to get bigger and better equipped, only to have less hands on with it.

I remember a great example of a retractable ladder rack built proudly in the USA that went on the Shark Tank, and the owner/proprietor flat out refused any offers because they wanted to offshore it. Based on principle, that of not only quality control and pride, but the support of his local town and infrastructure, he said absolutely no way. His numbers worked, he was profitable, and he said why be greedy for an extra few dollars? I met him at SEMA later that year, and he was doing great. Congrats.

Its just a piss off when a company outsources parts to china, loses that source, and then says "no more part available, and we can't find a suitable replacement that doesnt fail". Ok....you went overseas to get it, and your saying that you cant have it reproduced???? by anyone??? Seems weird.


We will never get away from offshore parts, I get it. But there is more than one solution, and more than one source. If said plant isnt producing a part, move on? Especially when your entire business is simply your SKUs....if it was so important to reduce your costs to be able to sell the product, why would you want to just stop selling it and lose the income all together? Especially if it sells like hotcakes?

Anyways.... back to work on home soil! LOL

[68Cuda]

I've started paying more and buying from trusted suppliers to ensure things like 4130 tubing and fasteners are coming from domestic or trusted offshore sources for this reason. By trusted offshore, I mean companies with actual names in western Europe or Taiwan, not generic "China" or "India". Losing a race car because of a fastener or material failure is a hell of a lot more expensive than paying the extra few bucks for the good stuff in the first place.

If you have ANY doubt, ask for a "Mill Certificate" for the material you are buying. Any metal raw material supplier should be able to get it and it is required by customs for anything imported.

[mfain]

They may have "plenty of capability", but their raw materials are pure crap. Do a metallurgical analysis of just about anything that comes from China. It will make you sick. It's just getting hard to find a well made alternative. I put a 250K mile carrier bearing back in my 1 ton rather than putting in the new one in the GM wrapper (made in China, Mainland) that I got from the dealer. Disgusted with the obvious inferior metal. Pitched it in the trash - would have cost more in fuel to take it back. Not to mention what the massive influx of junk at an unrealistically low price is doing to our economy. Wait until there is no longer any manufacturing capability in the good old USA and see what you pay for junk - it will be the only game in town. Yes, you hit a nerve. Maybe losing part of a finger to a Chinese built coil spring compressor that exploded in my hand had some influence on my thought process.

Another short story - went to O'Reilly's on a Sunday to get a rear wheel bearing for a dually (replaced it the next week with a Timken). O'Reilly's good bearing was $26, but they had one for $6.95!!! Imagine the quality. That bearing would be worth more as scrap steel - if it was made out of real steel. The Timken was $68 at Jobber price. Glad to pay it!

Pappy

[Hotrod1]

I have traveled the Midwest and it makes you sick about what has happened.

For me, if I can find something made in the USA, I will do my best to buy it. I support my country anyway I can.

Its a shame how we have given our country away with agreements like nafta.

[DavidBoren]

Pride isn't, or shouldn't be, based on nationality. I prefer to buy products that are manufactured in America because of the standardized processes, quality control, and information available pertaining to the materials used. It has nothing to do with me being born and raised in America.

I am not so easily convinced that the global market or strict environmental laws or even illegal immigrants are the reason for there being so many unemployed Americans. I blame America for the amount of unemployed Americans.

Corporate greed and laziness are why things are the way they are. It saves a dollar to outsource, and we the people are willing to buy the poor quality products that result. If we didn't facilitate it, they wouldn't do it. If we were willing to do the crap jobs ourselves, immigrants wouldn't be here knowing they can find work.

We did this to us.

[dale68z]

I have an auto repair shop. It has been very frustrating to have a brand I trusted to build a quality part that I can confidently install on my customers car, turn to crap. It seems the changes really started happening about 15 years ago. It seems the traditionally good name brands have kinda figured out their issues and the level of decline in quality has stopped or now gone back up.

But...
Most of my parts are ordered online. These parts are typically delivered to my shop within an hour. One supplier in particular, will use the catalog of a "good" brand for their generic brand. I have has multiple issue where a part had to be warrantied only to find the "good" part I bought was a generic part.
So, what I have learned is if the part is less expensive than expected, it is the generic part, not the real deal.

[barrrf]

I don't have much to add - it's all already been said. But Id like to comment on the capability of China vs the economy of America.

China is fully capable of making quality material - the plastics you use daily, the thin steels and aluminums inside of electronics, ect ect. The problem is THEY DONT CARE about the quality if theyre not being instructed to make quality items. Steel for example, will almost always be pot steel UNLESS material certs are required for a job (even then you have to know who youre buying from).

But because the US has gotten greedy as a whole then large companies do what they have to to maintain profit margins to make investors happy to keep doors open to employees employed and snowball effect.

I believe its past the point of no return. Little places will pop up here and there and make good money but large corporations will never be 100% US anymore.

[DavidBoren]

What you said about China not caring about quality is true, to an extent. The places that get contracted by overseas companies looking to save money, they do not care because they have no reason to care.

The same American company could have found a Chinese factory that made good steel (or whatever) and demanded (with proper follow-up) the same quality as made in America. This all could be done, the logistics of it, importing the goods, hiring a foreign relations person(s), buying the exact same quality of products, ensuring the Chinese factory is making the same quality of products that you are known for, it could all still happen AND save the American company money simply because the Chinese factory doesn't have to recycle waste, spend money on safety equipment, spend money on keeping up to date certifications with environmental protection agencies or safety standards agencies, they don't have to pay into workers benefits programs... it's cheaper. The exact same quality of products can be made and imported cheaper...

But it's not just the Chinese who do not care. It's us, too. We don't care enough to force a change. We just accept that made in China means it's inferior, and we just accept a larger and larger percentage of products to be of lower quality under the guise of saving money.

In this day and age, I think that the quality of products is stabilizing due to the access to information. You can slander/bash a company online and cost it millions of dollars in damages to its reputation. So companies are a little more accountable for their products, because word travels fast. If you get a poor quality product and have to deal with poor support for that product, you are going to raise hell (not unlike ranting on public forums) about it. You will literally "warn" twice as many people NOT to shop somewhere or buy something due to a bad experience, than you will tell about a good experience. Bad news spreads faster than praise. And it's harder to erase from your reputation.

We just haven't been raising enough stink to initiate change. Sure, some individual companies get called out for the lack of quality in their products, and they either change, or fail. But it's just the individual companies, the rest continue until they get caught. And we allow it. So it's going to continue.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The consumer looks at saving a buck and companies look at making a buck.

As long as there are consumers and competitive nature in businesses China will thrive on us. Don't sit around crying about it. Be smart and mindful of your purchases. What I love are the guys that scream 'Merica are the same guys that complain about the price of US created products.

If Johnny USA suspensions can save money by having a part machined in asia but still over see production quality then so be it. As long as its affordable people will buy it. Still a US part.

What I don't like is China dumping waste chemicals into products. Added asbestos in brake parts, Formaldehyde in toys, Formaldehyde in building materials, lead in food and mercury in feed. WTH?

[DavidBoren]

They aren't adding in more waste to their products. They just aren't taking as much out. It's not like they have barrels of waste they just sprinkle into production (that I am aware of). We have higher standards and require less of certain things we have found to be harmful or destructive. They, on the other hand, do not care about the levels of these chemicals in their products.

The people screaming 'Merica! piss me off the most. Patriotism baffles me. Don't take that the wrong way. I love the opportunities this coutry has afforded me. I joined the military in a time of war to do what I had to do to "earn" my freedoms. I didn't then, and don't now, believe in the war. But I went, nonetheless, and did my job. So let's not call my love of my country into question. But I will say this, if I had been born in Iraq 30 years ago, instead of Montana, I would have been shooting at the Americans carrying rifles in MY country... the same way I would be shooting at the Russians or Chinese if they came marching into Portland, Oregon (where I live now). Patriotism, as an ideal, is just dumb. Where you are born should have no influence on your personal pride.

[rustomatic]

If you don't like the competition, beat them. You just have to be willing to suffer until the market you'd like to serve cares, unless you also have the ability to make them care.

People like Mike Maier don't sit around waiting for someone to care about their product--they give people reasons to stand up and care. Then, they communicate...

(Disclaimer: I manufacture nothing but B.S. Literally. I teach people to understand and write their own language...)

Case in point: In the 1970s and '80s, people began to seriously covet Japanese products, and for good reason. They were just good, and they were just a bit different, in a way people liked. During this time, Taiwan began to join the (manufacturing) fray, and over time, Taiwan learned to make very good stuff--I would happily buy, with confidence, stuff made in Taiwan.

I've been into bicycles for too many decades (see the off-topic BMX thread), and watched this evolution take place (and bought several very good bicycles made in Taiwan). Japan moved on to the bigger and better, and let Taiwan take the reins. The Chinese will catch up, quality-wise, because they care to do so...

Anyhoo, just be the guy or girl who does the job...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

They aren't adding in more waste to their products. They just aren't taking as much out. It's not like they have barrels of waste they just sprinkle into production (that I am aware of). We have higher standards and require less of certain things we have found to be harmful or destructive. They, on the other hand, do not care about the levels of these chemicals in their products.

The people screaming 'Merica! piss me off the most. Patriotism baffles me. Don't take that the wrong way. I love the opportunities this coutry has afforded me. I joined the military in a time of war to do what I had to do to "earn" my freedoms. I didn't then, and don't now, believe in the war. But I went, nonetheless, and did my job. So let's not call my love of my country into question. But I will say this, if I had been born in Iraq 30 years ago, instead of Montana, I would have been shooting at the Americans carrying rifles in MY country... the same way I would be shooting at the Russians or Chinese if they came marching into Portland, Oregon (where I live now). Patriotism, as an ideal, is just dumb. Where you are born should have no influence on your personal pride.

:flag2: :flag2: :flag2: :flag2: :flag2: :flag2: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

oh whatever David! but that you for your service even if your not patriotic. :peepwall:

[Twoblackmarks...]

Here is Fish from Norway, sent to China for processing and then back to Europe and Norway.. Thats around the globe.. And it is FOOD!

Now it has started geting "too expensive" to send the fish to China, so now it is sent more and more to Vietnam.

What do we do when we run out of cheap countris to make stuff for us?? When we have forgotten how to make stuff ourselves and only know how to use the "add to cart" button on the web..??

54063

[Vince@Meanstreets]

blows ones mind doesn't it.....

Why don't we make processing plants where it is harvested? Because its not cost effective. :bang:

The US does the same thing. We scrap metal here, it goes to China to be processed, we buy the metal back for construction. :bang:

On a tangent....in CA we have a bad drought. I say: why don't we buy water from wetter states cause it all drains into the ocean anyways.
"Because its not cost effective".
me: How much money in crop losses and crop inefficiencies do we lose in this state. How much money do we lose importing fruit that we would normally grow here?
"that's not the same because its not an instant loss". :bang:

We buy oil and electricity from out of state sources. We need someone to put the calculator down and start thinking forward.

[Twoblackmarks...]

Yeah, it is all about the short term gain, quick money and effectivity, versus long term gain, good quality and stability.

This seems to be the trend in most modern businesses..

And I think this made in China adventure is one day going to stop, or change atleast, when people finally realizes that there is more imporant things in life than the newest gadgets, things and stuff, especially stuff that you gotta re-buy every other year because of poor quality.

[dhutton]

A little positive news:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-flips-the-script-on-jobs-reshoring-finally-outpaced-offshoring-in-2014-2015-05-01?dist=afterbell

Don

[out2kayak]

:soapbox:

RANT

When was the last time that you heard anyone in the government actually trying to improve:


Quality of product
Ethics that would cause people to care about what they are creating
Reduce costs on businesses, especially small businesses and corporate income taxes (and other taxes)
Take issue with free trade when the other areas around the planet clearly do not practice it
Hold the countries to account for the environment at the same level as US based manufacturers


Consider Seattle, where the minimum wage rose without an increase in knowledge / skills / abilities.

Consider the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, with all of the additional tax liabilities that are involved and without a substantive improvement in healthcare that would ensure a more healthy workforce.

Consider the monetary and fiscal policies of the US and how it impacts the dollar, the economy and the business climate.

Consider the impact to businesses in Ferguson, Baltimore and other cities. Seeing the looting, etc. just made me shutter -- someone is going to pay for each and every item that was stolen / destroyed / etc.

Consider the quality of the pupil coming out of High School, Community College, University, etc.

Consider how quickly the press, elected officials, etc. dog America. When was the last time you heard about American exceptionalism or anyone attempting to regain it?

On and on it goes.

The point is that the leaders of the country are really working hard to make doing business in the US harder. Yes, other countries have their own difficulty, but for each unit of currency that a business makes a return on investment calculation is performed. If that ROI is significantly biased outside of the US, companies will move part or all of their organization beyond the boarders of the US.

Don't get me wrong -- the US has a lot going for it, but businesses watch the ROI trade. China and other countries can make a quality product and there are many very smart people around the planet.

END RANT

Bottom line: how are we as the US going to work to improve American competitiveness on the world stage?

:underchair:

Thoughts?

[DBasher]

Stop supporting places like WalMart!
Support local businesses and know where the product your buying is coming from and who it's supporting.

Americans are cheap, always looking for the best price and not caring where it's coming from. Until people can get past that and buy local products they can be proud of, the toilet water will continue to swirl the bowl.

Stupid breeds stupid.

[DRJDVM's '69]

People want stuff cheap..... but the irony is that some of them have to get cheap stuff because they don't make much $$/cant find a job.... because all the " cheap labor" jobs have gone overseas... they went overseas because its cheaper labor...cheaper labor is needed to make the cheap crap that the US wants...so essentially our strong desire for cheap prices is putting ourselves out of business

If as a society we were willing to pay alittle more for items, US companies could still make stuff here, thus creating jobs and allowing people to have jobs to pay for stuff even at a slightly higher price....

Its all about straight up greed

[Shmoov69]

Joe wins the discussion! :trophy-1302:

[kwhizz]

Corporate Taxes, Obamacare, Unions, and Lawyers are a major Driver in increased costs of running a Business in America right now.........With the new World Economy it's going to take a while for things to balance out.....Supply and Demand.......We all want things to stay the way they were as they were good times........But......The Government feels they are Entitled to Corp "Profits" thru no effort of their own.......The Unions want to stay popular and powerful thru demanding higher wages and inefficiency imposed upon Businesses.........And the Workmans Comp settlements are now the Pot of Gold at the End of the Rainbow.........We had it good here for many years and I wish it could have stayed that way.......But.....It's a two sided issue..........

Just my $.02

Ken

[out2kayak]

Joe wins the discussion! :trophy-1302:

:thankyou: :woot:

:cheers: