My 1968 Camaro - builder?

[pimlico]

....

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Hi all,

Does anyone know approximately how much these builds cost and what's the breakdown of materials and labor?




heres the breakdown..
















































































http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/835/207/d2b.jpg

[Build-It-Break-it]

I would imagine about 6 digits $$ parts and labor for builds of that level. The crazier you get the more you pay obviously. Most places charge $85hr shop rate. Just an example: Mini tubs will cost you $350 for parts but 40hrs of shop labor ($3400) to put them in. Last I heard that's the amount of hours they charge for that particular job. Do the math, it'll add up fast.

[Sheck44]

LOL .. thats too funny !!
Your looking at $100K just in parts ... but the killer is $85/hr for labour whether it be for body & paint, and the rest if your not so mechanically inclined. Some of the builds you have mentioned have 1000+ hours into them, the math is simple and it adds up FAST ...

[Bryan O]

... but the killer is $85/hr for labour...

I know of a couple of excellent shops in the Phoenix area at $50/hr.

[DOOM]

To get that caliber of build you will easly be over $150.000.00! Ask me how I know.:y0!:

[Musclerodz]

$150k to $300k

[Vegas69]

Run for your life, forget what you have seen. :unibrow:

[Che70velle]

Run for your life, forget what you have seen. :unibrow:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You will thank him later.

[Flash68]

Hi all,

I'm looking at restoring my 1968 Camaro. I love the style of some of these pro-touring builds such as Blu Balz (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=27973&highlight=blue+balls) and Frostbite (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?p=552680) although it's a Firebird. Another good one is Badmotorfinger v2.2 (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=28515). Also a big fan of Lou's Change (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=37183).

Does anyone know approximately how much these builds cost and what's the breakdown of materials and labor?

Any recommendations on a fabricator?

Why on earth would you like that one? :lol:

Run for your life, forget what you have seen. :unibrow:

Yes! Yes! :theresa:

[MarkM66]

Cost to much to have built.

Sell it to me, :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Wow thanks for all the feedback. The prepare your anus was hilarious!!!

He wasn't really trying to be funny......they're spendy. :)

Maybe I'm just crazy but if these cars cost $150K to $300K, why do we see so many people doing it?
Simple answer.......because they can!

Also you can find these types of cars on eBay for around $75K. Maybe the the parts are exactly the same, lord knows that can vary greatly! LS3 vs LS9, RideTech vs ChassisWorks, etc, etc.
You're on to something here.

Is it better to build your own through a shop or just buy one that's already been heavily worked on and customize a few things to your liking?That really depends on you and your resources. See above.

How long do these projects generally last? Some threads I see poor guys taking 7+ years :(This also depends on the person and their resources. The ones that stall appear to be due to lacking of financial resources or builder issues.

I want to stay motivated and get my 1968 Camaro started. It's a good car, but all of the fenders and quarters would need to be fully replaced. But I'm sure that's just the start of it!!
OK, here's a moment of truth that states priority.....exterior appearance. Price all you bodywork and paint out first at the level you want and prepare for the worst case after blasting.

Then price out the suspension and brakes you envision.

Then the motor, trans, rear end.

Then the gauges, HVAC, and interior other interior features.

It's a double edged sword, put a lot of thought into your desires vs the reality of how you'll actually use and enjoy the car. It's not easy, yet done right it's very rewarding.

I've had my car 25+ years now and thoroughly enjoy every drive. If I was driving it in the green group at a Nor Cal Shelby track day it would be an embarrassment. I'd like it to hold it's own in that group but how my time allows me to use and enjoy it most doesn't justify building it to that level. As is I can comfortably sell it at a profit, if I built it for the occasional track day I'd be upside down in it and not thoroughly enjoy it.

Make any sense?

[GregWeld]

I completely agree with those that said 100k in PARTS.... That's spot on.

Labor is the unknown. Depends on who's building it and what part of the country you're in - and where you send the car. Some shops are $50 an hour - some are $100+

Cheap labor quote per hour can end up costing as much or more - because all of that depends on the shop and their skill level and on and on.


So the answer is -- there is no answer. How much of the work you can do yourself versus professionally done... how carried away you're going to get (you will).

If money is your issue - buy one that is done. Even then you can get taken.... so then it depends on how much you really know about cars - and what to look for, or if you're the kind of person that sees decent paint, you don't look beyond it, and you drop your drawers.

[GregWeld]

To answer the time question..... Cubic time or Cubic Money. If you have cubic money you can get things done because the shop can jump on the job order parts and keep someone on the car until it's done. Then it's 2 years worth.

There's only so many hours in a day - if you're building it yourself - and that is 1500 hours -- that's a full work year. Got a real job too? Oh - now you're 4 or 5 years out doing it yourself.

[YAMATHUMP]

.... so then it depends on how much you really know about cars - and what to look for, or if you're the kind of person that sees decent paint, you don't look beyond it, and you drop your drawers.

Funny....but oh so true.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

He wasn't really trying to be funny......they're spendy. :)





correct.. no comedy in my post.. just facts.

[WSSix]

pimlico, I commend you for asking this question because a lot of people are not in touch with reality when looking at these cars or starting these builds. My recommendation before starting is to decide the goal you have for the car and the build. You're going to have to be brutally honest with yourself in all aspects that matter to you. Once you've identified that goal, then you can start working towards it. You may find that buying an almost completed car or even fully completed car is the smart way to achieve your desires. Or, you may be more interested in the journey and want to learn the different skills necessary to be able to say you built it. That's the path I'm taking for what it's worth.

One thing I would mention/caution against. You don't need a fully equipped DSE car with 700+ hp to have fun or go fast. I'm assuming you're an average Joe here and not an experienced racer. A very simple build still using leaf springs, normal size one piece wheels, and a 400 hp engine will be loads of fun to build and learn how to drive. I'd like to think that goal is what brings most of us together on this site.

Good luck to you.

[GregWeld]

Good post Trey!!



The difference between buying a car done - or building it (pro or self) is the journey. Some love the hunting and the gathering and the journey... Some people would be FAR better off if they'd just shop for a decent car and be satisfied. Whatever level that is. Not everybody needs or can afford a "SEMA" quality car.

These are "toys" for boys... and it's a hobby - regardless of what route you choose.

Just be forewarned that it's not for the light of wallet unless you have good skills and time and some talent... or lots of perseverance... and some friends to help and guide.

Beware that these cars are 40 years old. They were cheap junk when built at the factory. They suffered thru a time when they weren't worth 1200 bucks... Floor's - trunks - lower body areas are all subject to rot. Rot is easily covered over by people in an effort to cover it up. If you're going to buy a 40 year old car - you'd better know what the hell you're looking at. You better learn to look at EVERYTHING with a jaundiced eye! There's more to this than shiny chrome valve covers and shiny paint.

A buddy of mine wanted a '32 Ford hot rod. He had a budget of 25 grand. We looked at maybe 200 cars over the course of a year plus.... then one day a car came up on Ebay that was only hours away... off we went... he got his VERY NICE '32 Ford Hiboy for his budget. We did NOT bid on eBay - we went and put EYEBALLS ON THE CAR!! When we go on drives and to shows.... he's having every bit as much fun in his as I am in mine that cost 10 times as much. I think he's smarter than I am.

If you buy a done car -- and the seller claims "body off" etc -- don't just rely on pictures! I can cut and past lots of pictures off the internet of bodies in bare metal and claim it to be of "my" build. So unless you can positively identify the car - or talk to the shop that did the work etc... you can get screwed. Don't get screwed! Be smart! There's "trust" but you need to VERIFY.

In the end -- if you want to build one -- and can write a check for 100 grand today to get started and write another 100 grand check in a year... then you can start one of these builds if you don't get project creep. 100 grand in parts including a body purchase of some kind for say 25 grand.... paint and upholstery will be 50K.... and labor - lots of labor.

Easy isn't it.

[GregWeld]

Where are you located roughly?? Let us recommend some shops to go talk to near you... you can then go visit them and look and see and discuss directly about "a project" and you'll get a feel for what it takes and looks like. It's fun - you'll meet some great people. It might be an eye opener for you in terms of whether or not you want to build a car vs buy a car. Maybe they'll even know a car for sale that they know the history of etc.

[bentfab]

Mr. Weld should be and ambassador for the hot rod/pro-touring world.... Got a question call 1-800-WELD.

Mr Weld nails it on the head every time... Why because he has grease under his nails ,has money to build a professional car buy the best, and plain old knows from experience and knowledge...

I've actually copied and given some of his quotes to customers to read. I suck at being a sales man, but have a passion for what I do... This business and my work ethic and pride in what I do has taught me to be brutaly honest in every thing I do ! If you don't think and act this way it will bite you in the A$$! Not only for Me but the customer as well.

I have a $60,000.00 ebay buy in my shop that I can atest too. Person A had the car built with all the best. Everything DSE from front to back, LS3 and trans from Street & Perf. Brand new trim , interior, electrical Etc.. HRE rims, Big Brakes, Everything on the car was brand new. Probably well over $130,000.00 in the car. Car was never finished. It so called only needed a few things to get her running (that was a joke in it self) Person A ran into financial problems. Person B bought it off e-bay for $60,000 with the intent to get it running fairly quick (NOT !!!).

Well.... Now the car sits in my shop on a jig table with the hole-ass end ripped out. The paint job was so bad we ended up blasting it and found extremely poor work and unfinished rust everywhere. Hood fenders the rear quarters look new but were installed so poorly they look origanal. And on... and on.... and on....

So in the big picture (truth). Find a good solid original car and expect to spend the $ 250,000 to $350,000 for a proffessionaly built car that will start-run-drive from the first week you receive it to 5 years down the road. If not you will having to keep calling back the shop for all those fixes as if you had it built for a GOOD DEAL !

I'm not saying you can have a bitchen little Resto-mod bought and built for under $100,000 or less(depending on skill level) and enjoy the heck out of it !! But if you wanna go big there are a TON of things that will effect how you approch a build and the final out come.

Hope this all made sense ?????

Mark

[randy]

Ive got my car to this point. Now to get it to this point it wasn't cheap. Things add up quick. Im going on 4 years and i still have work to do. Honestly as is without engine and trans i wouldn't let this car go for under 50k and i have more than that in it. Now If i lost my job, my wife lost her job, kid was sick, and I'm about to lose my house that would be a different story. Now something like this is i have a lot of documentation.

Things usually go like this. " well while you are in there replacing the tubs we might as well mini tub it and since we are doing that it would be a perfect time to upgrade to the dse rear quadralink." While he's right cost starts to add up really fast. You go from a few grand to 10k quick.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/10846283_10100487131357136_6273500582914268194_n.j pg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/10846283_10100487131357136_6273500582914268194_n.j pg.html)

[TheJDMan]

IF you can do your own work you can get a lot for your money. I am very close to $70,000 in my project but I have owned the car for 40+ years and that cost is just the updates. I have no interior and have not even started on paint yet. But I can drive and enjoy to the car for now. If I did not have a car to start with and was not going to do the work myself I would be attending some auctions like Barrett-Jackson or Mechum to pick up a finished car.


http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro/CAMARO3.jpg

[Flash68]

Okay... I generally prefer not to talk about $ but in this case I just wanna say I am WELL UNDER $100k in parts and well under $150k in total. Why? Because I bought a running car 5 years ago for a good deal ($29k) with a lot of nice upgraded parts -- fully upgraded stock sub, DSE leafs, mini tubbed, roll cage, pretty nice 10 year old paint job, and 550 hp SBC with a Muncie. It competed well with the $100k+ Pro Touring cars at events (why didn't I leave it alone again? :twak:) but one thing leads to another and you get bored and want more. BUT I sold a lot of those parts to the tune of 5 figures to help fund bigger and better parts... and that is why I am not at $150k to 300k like other guys. But then I don't have a $25k paint job (Honestly don't want one) and a $10k+ interior (don't want that either). My money has gone to drivetrain and suspension mainly.

Bottom line -- I knew I would change and upgrade things over time (didn't know how much or how fast) but you're way ahead if you have something decent and/or complete to start with. AND find a good builder/shop who will be HONEST with the numbers with you and not suck you in with a "good deal"... and just make sure they have actually put out some running cars that last if you go that route. Luckily my delays have been due to people not willing to work not having the time to work.

Good luck. And watch that sphincter. :lol:

... you can get screwed. Don't get screwed! Be smart!

Don't be Skinny Arms Rob Lowe.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/directv-scrawny-arms-rob-lowe-ss-04_zpslazk0f7a.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/directv-scrawny-arms-rob-lowe-ss-04_zpslazk0f7a.jpg.html)

[Swain]

Steve what suspension do you have in the rear of this car?

IF you can do your own work you can get a lot for your money. I am very close to $70,000 in my project but I have owned the car for 40+ years and that cost is just the updates. I have no interior and have not even started on paint yet. But I can drive and enjoy to the car for now. If I did not have a car to start with and was not going to do the work myself I would be attending some auctions like Barrett-Jackson or Mechum to pick up a finished car.


http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro/CAMARO3.jpg

[dhutton]

$250k to $350k for a decent reliable car... I am glad I did not read this before I got interested in these cars. The number boggles my mind. Surely a regular guy can enjoy these cars too. Especially if they want to tour and not race or have a 900 hp king of the hill engine etc.

I got the sense the OP is a regular guy and I think tossing out numbers like that will discourage him from owning, driving and enjoying one of these cars.

Don

[Flash68]

$250k to $350k for a decent reliable car... I am glad I did not read this before I got interested in these cars. The number boggles my mind. Surely a regular guy can enjoy these cars too. Especially if they want to tour and not race or have a 900 hp king of the hill engine etc.

I got the sense the OP is a regular guy and I think tossing out numbers like that will discourage him from owning, driving and enjoying one of these cars.

Don

I agree Don. Not everyone needs or WANTS a $150k to 200k to 300k car. Many days I miss my $30k car and how much fun I had in it.

pimlico, I commend you for asking this question because a lot of people are not in touch with reality when looking at these cars or starting these builds. My recommendation before starting is to decide the goal you have for the car and the build. You're going to have to be brutally honest with yourself in all aspects that matter to you. Once you've identified that goal, then you can start working towards it. You may find that buying an almost completed car or even fully completed car is the smart way to achieve your desires. Or, you may be more interested in the journey and want to learn the different skills necessary to be able to say you built it. That's the path I'm taking for what it's worth.

One thing I would mention/caution against. You don't need a fully equipped DSE car with 700+ hp to have fun or go fast. I'm assuming you're an average Joe here and not an experienced racer. A very simple build still using leaf springs, normal size one piece wheels, and a 400 hp engine will be loads of fun to build and learn how to drive. I'd like to think that goal is what brings most of us together on this site.

Good luck to you.

Right on Trey.

[WSSix]

I agree Don. Not everyone needs or WANTS a $150k to 200k to 300k car. Many days I miss my $30k car and how much fun I had in it.


This is why my car has been scaled waaaaaaaay back. I just want to enjoy the car and learn some tricks along the way. I'd never get there if I stayed with my original plan.

Steve, you don't need paint so save the money or donate it to me :D

pimlico, don't be discouraged. That was not the intent of my post. Just be sure to have your eyes wide open before starting this process.

[Sieg]

$250k to $350k for a decent reliable car... I am glad I did not read this before I got interested in these cars. The number boggles my mind. Surely a regular guy can enjoy these cars too. Especially if they want to tour and not race or have a 900 hp king of the hill engine etc.

I got the sense the OP is a regular guy and I think tossing out numbers like that will discourage him from owning, driving and enjoying one of these cars.

Don

Owned for 25 years and under $30K including insurance payments. All is not lost. :D

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-28QW7WW/1/L/i-28QW7WW-L.jpg

What it doesn't have is coilovers, trick suspension links, fancy sway bars, expensive wheels, fuel injection or LS conversion, AC, rack and pinion, tilt wheel, stereo, power windows, fancy paint (27 year old), pure sheet metal, carbon, billet, stainless, tinted glass, and cup holders.

What it does have that make the car enjoyable to drive is Momo steering wheel, Recaro seats, AFR heads, T56 Mag, 3:73 posi, firm springs, low CG, 200TW tires, C5 manual front brakes, a decent sounding exhaust, eye appeal based on general public opinion, and sentimental value.

........and it will easily go fast enough to get me thrown in jail and lose my license for a year. :D

To me the expenses really come down to your time frame, abilities, and desires. If I was going to buy a car it would probably be here or PT.com but it would have to be from a member who had good history and the car's build was documented in a thread. I think we've all seen some unbelievable deals over the years. :thumbsup:

[dhutton]

Here's my 69 Firebird that I had roughly $30k into. Art Morrison front sub, G-Bar rear, C5/LS1 brakes, stock LS1, 8.5" 10 bolt rear, used HRE wheels, procar seats, and otherwise stock interior. My wife and I had a lot of fun cruising around in this car and the ride was far superior to a stock first gen. I sold it for what I had into it and the buyer hopped in and drove it back to St. Louis where he has been driving the wheels off it for 5 years. My wife still gives me a hard time about selling that car.

Don

[Schwartz Perf]

Post deleted

[dhutton]

--Can I do it? No you cant! :)
We've had a lot of cars in here from DIY'ers or guys who thought they could do it all.. and it costs more in the end to get it straightened out. Sure, those clips will hold together with your JB weld, but no reputable shop wants to be liable for JB weld holding parts together. On your own garage build? Sure, maybe it'll last several years and you'll be fine.

-Dale

Be careful here. The internet is awash with stories of guys who paid professional shops big money and got the same or worse. Paying big money to a pro is not a slam dunk either.

Are there any pro shops out there willing to give encouragement/hope to the average Joe enthusiast who can't afford to spend $250k building a car?

Don

By the way, no JB Weld on any of my cars. A little chewing gum and spit here and there, but no JB Weld....

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Be careful here. The internet is awash with stories of guys who paid professional shops big money and got the same or worse. Paying big money to a pro is not a slam dunk either.

Are there any pro shops out there willing to give encouragement/hope to the average Joe enthusiast who can't afford to spend $250k building a car?

Don :D

you just have to shop around and do your home work.

It didn't help that the OP listed the group of projects that he did in post #1


"I'm looking at restoring my 1968 Camaro. I love the style of some of these pro-touring builds such as Blu Balz and Frostbite although it's a Firebird. Another good one is Badmotorfinger v2.2. Also a big fan of Lou's Change.

Does anyone know approximately how much these builds cost and what's the breakdown of materials and labor?"



I've build a bunch of cars for under $60K but none will win car shows or stain a carpet at SEMA. These are what I like to call "blue collar" cars. The ones with $9,000 paint jobs, you can drive in the rain, park on the street and enjoy when they get used. No one on that list is under $90K

[dhutton]

:D
I've build a bunch of cars for under $60K but none will win car shows or stain a carpet at SEMA. These are what I like to call "blue collar" cars. The ones with $9,000 paint jobs, you can drive in the rain, park on the street and enjoy when they get used. No one on that list is under $90K

That is what I am talking about Vince. Sounds like the OP and the rest of the regular Joes need to get together with you. :thumbsup:

Don

[Flash68]

Owned for 25 years and under $30K including insurance payments. All is not lost. :D



I contend you are underinsured my friend. :underchair:



The costs really are as high as everyone says.


Who is "everyone"? Because there are all kinds of numbers being spewed about in this thread.

[Vegas69]

Way to many including myself are lured into building way to much car. It's not dissimilar to Americans chasing the Jones. I can't count how many times I spent over $1,000 on a part that would gain me a fraction of an inch. For what?

Less is more. Make the carpet match the drapes. Make it a nice driver and performer. You don't need DSE suspension or an LS7 to do it. How much time are you actually going to spend behind the wheel? From what I've seen, 1 in 10,000 have elapsed 10k on the odometer. See paragraph one for why so many stall out.

There is a time and place for these mega builds, just don't get sucked in over your head. It's not worth it from multiple angles. Build a car you can enjoy and afford!

[Mkelcy]

--Can I do it? No you cant! :)
We've had a lot of cars in here from DIY'ers or guys who thought they could do it all.. and it costs more in the end to get it straightened out. Sure, those clips will hold together with your JB weld, but no reputable shop wants to be liable for JB weld holding parts together. On your own garage build? Sure, maybe it'll last several years and you'll be fine. -Dale

I guess I'm just a dumbass. I built my kitchen when we remodeled our house - demo, design, built cabinets, 60 plus drawers, plumbing, etc., and then I built my car.

Unlike Dale's assumption, some of us can figure out that welding is better than JB Weld, and that a well sorted out home built car is better than something that someone who claims to be a professional might end up building for us.

Dale: arrogance =/= professional.

[Sieg]

Here's my 69 Firebird that I had roughly $30k into. Art Morrison front sub, G-Bar rear, C5/LS1 brakes, stock LS1, 8.5" 10 bolt rear, used HRE wheels, procar seats, and otherwise stock interior. My wife and I had a lot of fun cruising around in this car and the ride was far superior to a stock first gen. I sold it for what I had into it and the buyer hopped in and drove it back to St. Louis where he has been driving the wheels off it for 5 years. My wife still gives me a hard time about selling that car.

Don

I second your wife's opinion! :)

[fleetus macmullitz]

Obviously people have fun in this hobby in different ways.

Some don't mind the long build time.

For others that would take the fun out of things.

I liked modding my '70 455 Buick GS convert because it stayed on the road and it was a great driver after the bigger/better wheels and tires went on combined with an updated suspension. The fun part was that it had 510 ft lbs from the factory @2800. :)

Main thing though was it was a solid driver to start with.

So if your not married to the '68, you could potentially save a lot of time and money by selling what you have and take the age-old super solid advice...'Buy the best car you can' as the right way to start a project.

Patience pay$ off big time. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

It didn't help that the OP listed the group of projects that he did in post #1


"I'm looking at restoring my 1968 Camaro. I love the style of some of these pro-touring builds such as Blu Balz and Frostbite although it's a Firebird. Another good one is Badmotorfinger v2.2. Also a big fan of Lou's Change.

Does anyone know approximately how much these builds cost and what's the breakdown of materials and labor?"

I perceived the OP as unknowing and honest in his question, call him naive or whatever, but I believe many on the outside that aren't in the know so to speak and really don't have a clue what it takes to achieve what they see and think is really cool. He asked an honest question and gave images of what he envisions, can't fault him for asking, and the thread is returning insight.

The majority in this day and age appear to have few mechanical skills or knowledge which leads to assumptions that are influenced by the marketing perceptions they are exposed to.

Hell........people think my car is expensive around here........compared to their C class Benz. :D

[Sieg]

I contend you are underinsured my friend. :underchair:

State Farm from the beginning, limited to 7,500 miles annually, $500 deductible, full coverage less towing and rental car. I also carry a $1m personal umbrella. Assessed valuation increased to $34.5K after the fire and appraisal, $13K before which almost bit me hard.

I was paying $86 per year for a long time.........felt like Super Thief. Reality is I hardly drove it..........you know what that's like. :D My daily driver for the last ten years has 120K on it, kids and age change things.

[GregWeld]

I totally agree with everybody --- and that's where this is a good thread. Some guys built budget cars (really? 70 or 90 grand is a budget car). Depends on the base price of the car... and what was done to it - and how much the owner did versus professionally done. Did he buy a nice used 350... and a used 5 speed... and used wheels... and the undercarriage is painted with a rattle can.... factory wiring? Old glass and trim? Original headliner?

My point is -- hell yeah a guy can build an "affordable" car. As long as he thinks 70/80/90 grand is affordable. Fun driver? Sure. Drive it in the rain to the grocery store. You bet. Win a trophy once in awhile... depends on the show / the town / the competition.... but yeah.

Want to build a car like Lou's Change.... all professionally built... best of everything. Bring a truck - make that a Brink's truck.

Then there's everything in between. The builds I've done for myself and my friends/relatives is all me -- except body paint (I can do all the other paintwork)... and CUSTOM interior. I also have a shop that most pros would like to have. What's that cost? I'm not saying. More than a couple cars anyway.... What's my point? My point is that even doing it yourself has costs you never counted on, or added in.... TOOLS... lots of them.... Compressors.... A welder... and even More tools.... Oh! You need a lift? Ka Ching... So let's be real here. Those things all have costs that nobody EVER counted in the build budget.

So let's say you bought a "decent" 68 Camaro.... for 30 grand. The more you do to it - the more you'll want to do to it. Pretty soon it becomes very obvious to you that you're either way over your head.... and you sell it.... or you don't have a clue and you tear it all apart (that's the easiest two days of work you're ever going to do on it).... and that's when it all either comes together or you have a garage you can't use and a car that you paid 30 grand for that's now worth 10.

Here's the bottom line. It was a very good question! One that MANY should have asked a long time ago. But one that has no answer. The build is going to cost what you let it cost. The smart guys know their limits and the limits of their skills.

[Sieg]

Depending on the condition of your current car you may be able to make decent money selling it to someone who want to have a builder build a 'supercar' and I think you could find a good solid updated driver for $50-$75K...........that should kick non-tweaked and turbo'd Honda azz.......and it should appreciate unlike a new car. :)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

you can do a lot for $75

[dhutton]

Then there's everything in between. The builds I've done for myself and my friends/relatives is all me -- except body paint (I can do all the other paintwork)... and CUSTOM interior. I also have a shop that most pros would like to have. What's that cost? I'm not saying. More than a couple cars anyway.... What's my point? My point is that even doing it yourself has costs you never counted on, or added in.... TOOLS... lots of them.... Compressors.... A welder... and even More tools.... Oh! You need a lift? Ka Ching... So let's be real here. Those things all have costs that nobody EVER counted in the build budget.


My attitude on tool spending is that if I can buy the tools to do a job for the same money or less than I would pay someone to do the job then that is what I do. That way the tool is sitting there when I need to get the job done on the next car. My shop is far from your shop Greg but it is now fairly well equipped using this approach.

Don

[YAMATHUMP]

My attitude on tool spending is that if I can buy the tools to do a job for the same money or less than I would pay someone to do the job then that is what I do. That way the tool is sitting there when I need to get the job done on the next car. My shop is far from your shop Greg but it is now fairly well equipped using this approach.

Don

My thoughts exactly on this subject, I am always looking for a reason to buy tools!

[GregWeld]

My point on the tool buying wasn't so much that some of us are tool addicts... it was more about the fact that they do have a cost attached to them. Few if any of us add that cost along the way to what we "think" we're willing to spend on a car.

The point was being added to the "home built" argument vs the "pro built" - because home builders are more budget minded... yet may end up spending a few thousand dollars over time NOT on the car but on tools to build the car.

[WSSix]

I need to make some friends in this industry so that perhaps I could leverage their experience and knowledge when looking at purchasing a car.



Welcome to the site. We're here to answer your questions, and help you spend your money wisely.*



* ridiculously subjective but if you check with the site first, we should be able to keep you from being too foolish with the money

[Schwartz Perf]

I guess I'm just a dumbass. I built my kitchen when we remodeled our house - demo, design, built cabinets, 60 plus drawers, plumbing, etc., and then I built my car.

Unlike Dale's assumption, some of us can figure out that welding is better than JB Weld, and that a well sorted out home built car is better than something that someone who claims to be a professional might end up building for us.

Dale: arrogance =/= professional.

Yikes. I'm not sure where you interpreted that I called you an idiot :(

The audience I'm referring to are the individuals that are hacks by nature, or who do not have a mechanical/artistic mindset capable of building a quality car. Along with this comes patience, willingness to try things new, time available, etc.

Yep there are a lot of shops out there that aren't qualified either and will steal your money.

As Vince pointed out, just gotta do your homework if you don't have the time/patience etc. to do your own job.

I edited my original post to prevent anyone else from getting offended, my apologies!

-Dale

[Schwartz Perf]

Be careful here. The internet is awash with stories of guys who paid professional shops big money and got the same or worse. Paying big money to a pro is not a slam dunk either.

Are there any pro shops out there willing to give encouragement/hope to the average Joe enthusiast who can't afford to spend $250k building a car?

Don

By the way, no JB Weld on any of my cars. A little chewing gum and spit here and there, but no JB Weld....

That's what we're on the forums for. I enjoy helping others solve problems. And heck there's always hundreds of things to learn off here. Nobody is an expert. Unless you're Ron Sutton of course. ;)

But many of us vendors on here are willing to help out on costs with many products to help the budget from overflowing too much. And Don is one of them!

Chewing gum? Gross.

-Dale

[DBasher]

Yikes. I'm not sure where you interpreted that I called you an idiot :(

The audience I'm referring to are the individuals that are hacks by nature, or who do not have a mechanical/artistic mindset capable of building a quality car. Along with this comes patience, willingness to try things new, time available, etc.


-Dale

Hey now! Don't go dragging me into this! :D

To the op. My advice, clean up your car and dump it. Find some shops here or close to home and start asking questions. Let them know you're a serious buyer and what you're looking for. Flash68's camaro that was purchased for 29k, that's a heck of a buy! Deals are out there and often times are sold without advertising, just word of mouth.
:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Flash68's camaro that was purchased for 29k, that's a heck of a buy!

And it took him months to sell it... I had found an old cached ad on CL and contacted him... but 2010 the money was not flowing all that well in the economy. No way that car sells for that price in 2015.

But, as you said, deals are still out there... patience and perseverance can typically be rewarded in life. :)

[Dayton]

Does anyone know approximately how much these builds cost and what's the breakdown of materials and labor?



Whatever you think it will cost X2.

[Matt@BOS]

Whatever you think it will cost X2.

Then add 20 percent.

[Flash68]

Then add 20 percent.

Then add 6-12 months.

[Matt@BOS]

Then add 6-12 months.

Then buy a Corvette?

[Vegas69]

Then add 6-12 years.

:lmao:

[GregWeld]

Then add 6-12 months.



IF you have any tools and a bunch of talent and time....

[Flash68]

Then buy a Corvette?

Only if it's red. And it's your second one. :sieg:

:lmao:

If your name is Bad Ron, certainly change that to years.

IF you have any tools and a bunch of talent and time....

I'll clarify. The 6-12 months is ON TOP OF the expected 2-3 years. Per builder. Per car version. Per fill in the blank. And so on.

So basically you're back to 6-12 years. :lmao:

[Vegas69]

It was my Nicorette gum. :D

[TheJDMan]

Steve what suspension do you have in the rear of this car?

It's a ChassisWorks G-Link with 10/200 coils.

[Ron in SoCal]

Only if it's red. And it's your second one. :sieg:

If your name is Bad Ron, certainly change that to years.

I'll clarify. The 6-12 months is ON TOP OF the expected 2-3 years. Per builder. Per car version. Per fill in the blank. And so on.

So basically you're back to 6-12 years. :lmao:

Holy crap dude. Why don't you just move in to my house? That way you'll get real time updates and not have to rely on other people. Plus I'll give Suzie and G2 visiting privileges. It'll also speed up your LatG updates :lol:

Love you Bro :cheers:

[GregWeld]

The correct answer is --- it will cost way more than you planned -- and take years not months to construct.


LOL -- Dead serious.

[Efi69Cam]

I can attest to the decade + time frame. My project started out in 2003 as a t56 swap, then got caught up in a death spiral of "since I'm in there I might as well" combined with life. I might be able to finish the wiring and plumbing this summer, but probably not.

C6 Z06 Corvettes are going for less than the $75k of your budget. Its the benchmark for most pro-touring builds. Personally, I think I'd have more fun with one. You might want to consider going that way, and just restore the 68.

[Flash68]

Why don't you just move in to my house? That way you'll get real time updates and not have to rely on other people.

Nah. Norcal > Socal. :stirthepot: :D

And who are these "other people"? I'd like to meet them. :tv_happy:

Did you think you were the only one around here who is also a member of the Corvette Forum? :bitchslap: :lmao:

The correct answer is --- it will cost way more than you planned -- and take years not months to construct.


LOL -- Dead serious.

Yep!

[syborg tt]

Okay so here is my thoughts.

You have the 68 Camaro - Great

First mod I would do that would give you greatest impact is Brakes, Wheels, Tires & Suspension. Personally I would skip the mini-tubs and do a square set up on the car with 275'w all the way around (bigger isn't always better) .

Chassis

Suspension - look at DSE because it's the best bang for the buck as you can keep the factory leaf springs and lower the car 2" or 3" with a 1" lower block. The offer a very nice bolt on front suspension and once again you can do it in your driveway and not take the car out of service.

Brakes - call Tobin at Kore3 as you get get a complete brake package for under 2 grand and then call DSE for the bolt in Corvette Brake Booster and then you have a no fuss brake set up that is designed to work together.

Wheels - Look at a forged wheel vs a billet wheel as once again they are 1/3 the price and you can get a nice deal on a 18 x 8 & 18 x 9 set up.

Tire - Tire Rack & Discount tires are your friends and it’s easy to shop the size you want and save some money.

Ps the stock 10 bolt is plenty strong enough for 99% out there. Don’t get sucked in the fact that you need a 9” rear differential.

Interior

Next modification I would do is the interior which you can also do in a weekend if you know where to look.

TMI Interiors - sells do it yourself interiors that are very nice and fairly inexpensive. They have more fabric and material options then you can shake a stick at.

Sound Deadening – While you are swapping out the carpet, door panels & head liner install some DEI sound deadening to reduce the road noise. It makes a huge difference and it helps to make you feel like your in a much safer car.

Saftey. – Put in some 3 Point seat belts as they may just save your life.

Dash Cluster - swap out the Guages to give it a nice updated look.

Intermittent Wipers – If you plan to drive the car this is a worthwhile upgrade

Electical

Honestly the car is 40 plus years old and it may be time to yank that old crap out and install some new stuff. If you are not comfortable doing it then hire the right guy.

American Auto Wire – great guys and they kits are very self-explanatory.


Engine Bay

If your good with that factory small block wow are you going to save some money here. Do you really need an LS motor to look cool. If you do I will add a sub section.

Firewall – Cosmetic Upgrades
Firewall – Clean it up and wrap the wire in a Black Nomex wire wrap, Scrap all of that black plastic crap and don’t hang **** on the firewall (msd box) like they did in the 70’s.
Wiper Motor – Buy the DSE unit it looks and works great.
Brake Booster – You already bought and installed this with your new brakes.
Battery – Replace the Batter with an Optima and buy the Rad Rides remote shut off kit

Inside of the Fenders – Tape them off and touch them up
Inner Fenders – Yank them out and paint them.
Fender Brace – Upgrade them it looks like you actually like your car’s engine bay
Hood Hinges – Billet one’s give big impact and look great (finish should match the fender braces)
Underside of Hood – Steam Pipe wrap the underside of the hood’s opening’s (nice detail)


Actual Engine – Stock Motor - remember this is not your daily driver !!
Valve Covers & Air Cleaners – Machined finished is cheap and give a great look.
Heads – leave them bare Aluminum so people can see you upgraded them.
Headers – Stainless Steel Headers are great but don’t buy long tubes as they hang to low
Timing Chain Cover – Dear God don’t buy a chrome POS but a nice billet one.
Front Drive – Billet Specialties & Vintage Air make beautiful setups and then you get air
Plug Wires – Use bright colors as it attracts the eye
Plug Wire Boots – DEI makes High Temp boots in various colors to increase the impact.


Not sure if you’ve noticed but you have yet to disassemble the car and prevent it from going back together in more than a couple day’s which is the way you should build your first car or any car that is on a budget. What is great is you can take your car to the local cruise night you can show people what you’ve done. And if something happens you can sell the car as a driver and get a good chunk of your money back if you ever have to.


Paint & Body - if it's a 10 footer leave it alone
State your goal with the paint in advance. Do you really need a perfectly gapped car (5 to 10 grand) if you don’t then do yourself and don’t go crazy. Have an experience body shop do a nice paint job and put a set of stripes on the car and accent the car with small details. Look at Steilow last car Hellfire and it has insane Red paint and is accented with Carbon Fiber. The trim is also has a silver /gray finish that really increases the impact of the car.

Details
Engine Bay – should be all black why because every color goes with a black engine bay.

Color – Pick your favorite color and Paint it

Stripe – Put whatever stripe you want on the car and if you want to save money do it with a wrap. Why because if you get bored just peel it off and have a new one put down for a couple hundred dollars.

Accents – Front Spoiler, Mirrors and rear Spoiler paint them black or if you have the budget buy Carbon Fibers ones.

Wheels – Hopefully you picked a wheel that looks good with the color that your car is now painted. If not ship them to the Powder coater and change the color.

.... And this is how you build a car on a budget and have a car that you can be driving while you modify it.

added this to my post because it needed to be added


Clean the car up REALLY nice. Fit and finish is the most important quality of a car regardless if the parts are stock or custom - that will keep you busy for a while, and cost you plenty of money.

You can always go back and add performance components a little at a time. Besides, the bolts will always come back out more easily the second time anyway.

Don't just blow your whole car apart and sit there for 3 years waiting for money.

There's nothing wrong with observing those "target cars" for examples, but don't bite off more than you can chew.:snapout:

[71RS/SS396]

I've done it both ways build vs bought. It's way cheaper to buy a finished car and update/repair what you don't like. The disclaimer is you have to look the car over well or pay an inspector to do so if you don't have the knowledge to do so. I bought this car off of this site for $75K http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=36673 although it wasn't without some problems none of them were what I would consider major. I've probably put another 7-8K into it but a lot of that has been updating it to be able to withstand the abuse my wife subjects it to while racing it. She beats it like a rental car! :confused59: :drive:

[Flash68]

^ That was a good buy Tim. Nice example.

[YAMATHUMP]

Marty, thanks for the detailed post.
There is a LOT of good information in this thread.

[Dirtmod08]

I'm just an average Joe wanting to have a slick ride like some of the boys on this forum. I assumed it would take some time and money, but didn't have any good idea on the ballpark. I figured the least I can do is begin to educate myself and listen to the advice from people who have been there and done that.

I think at most I would want to spend is $75K. I wish I could afford $300K, but maybe in another life LOL.

I think it really comes down to should I just buy a car or do a simple restoration of my 1968 Camaro I already have.

However I think buying a pre-built car comes with its own baggage. Like you guys have said, who knows what you're buying and what the pretty paint is covering up. I need to make some friends in this industry so that perhaps I could leverage their experience and knowledge when looking at purchasing a car.

I think at the end of the day I'm really just looking to have a really great looking car that could maybe handle, perform, and be as reliable like a new Honda for example.

I have no desire to race it, track it, put it in shows, or anything else. Just drive it and have a good time!

I am an average Joe way out of my league on this site. I scratch and claw to have something nice.
One thing to remember, is no matter how much money you throw at something, someone else is going to have something nicer anyway. Build a car to satisfy what YOU want. Be realistic on what you'll be happy with driving.
Clean the car up REALLY nice. Fit and finish is the most important quality of a car regardless if the parts are stock or custom - that will keep you busy for a while, and cost you plenty of money. You can always go back and add performance components a little at a time. Besides, the bolts will always come back out more easily the second time anyway. Don't just blow your whole car apart and sit there for 3 years waiting for money.
I just traded a custom Hotrod I built from scratch on a very modest survivor Z28 with mild performance upgrades for handling, maybe about $20k worth. ZZ4 crate, 200r4 trans, Hotchkiss kit, Wilwood brakes, poly bushings on everything. The car handles great for what I want to do with it, I love the car, and I know better than to get obsessed with pouring out the money and making it better than the next guy's.
There's nothing wrong with observing those "target cars" for examples, but don't bite off more than you can chew.:snapout:
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/dirtmod08/IMG_20150111_144345394_zpshcookq7v.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/dirtmod08/10487238_10204041516991030_4867568133659467758_n_z psuzia1xlu.jpg

[syborg tt]

Dirtmod - I went back to my post and added your comments below to my post. I hope it's okay.


Clean the car up REALLY nice. Fit and finish is the most important quality of a car regardless if the parts are stock or custom - that will keep you busy for a while, and cost you plenty of money.

You can always go back and add performance components a little at a time. Besides, the bolts will always come back out more easily the second time anyway.

Don't just blow your whole car apart and sit there for 3 years waiting for money.

There's nothing wrong with observing those "target cars" for examples, but don't bite off more than you can chew.:snapout:

[Dirtmod08]

Dirtmod - I went back to my post and added your comments below to my post. I hope it's okay.

I appreciate it, actually. I've always been a big believer in driving a car no matter what stage it's in, but I'm sort of low-class anyway, lol.

[Radlark]

WOW a lot of GREAT INFO in this thread, I to am an average joe as well and I have purchased some tools to do the work myself because I want to teach myself or just get an experience using the tools I have in my garage!

Although it might not hold a candle to some of the cars that are built on this site...at least I can say "hey I did all of that by myself". Like another poster said "it may not stain a SEMA carpet" but I am building it to suit MY needs as a nice driver and a cool car.

Marty that was a great write up !!!!!

[Dirtmod08]

I have one more thing I'd like to suggest. If you hear of a local stock car swap meet happening in your area, go to it and browse around. You can buy some useful second hand stuff pretty cheap. Anything to fuel delivery components, to suspension components, to performance power steering pump stuff, to dress up stuff that has some quality. Even if you can't find direct bolt-on stuff you can use, you might find some good material to make what you need.
I just went to one a few weeks ago. I didn't really need any suspension stuff, but I did find a nice set of aluminum valve covers I bought from a guy for $40, and a spun aluminum air cleaner with a drop base and a K&N filer for $30. The stuff cleaned up real nice.
I think I'll take Marty's advise about the Nomex wire wrap.
.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/dirtmod08/IMG_20150118_152354679_zpsdnuocj4k.jpg

[syborg tt]

Thanks Guys.

I've wanted to put pen to paper a long time ago and this thread gave me the kick in the pants to start writing.

ps - more to come over the weekend.

[Wissing72]

Okay so here is my thoughts.

You have the 68 Camaro - Great

First mod I would do that would give you greatest impact is Brakes, Wheels, Tires & Suspension. Personally I would skip the mini-tubs and do a square set up on the car with 275'w all the way around (bigger isn't always better) .

Chassis

Suspension - look at DSE because it's the best bang for the buck as you can keep the factory leaf springs and lower the car 2" or 3" with a 1" lower block. The offer a very nice bolt on front suspension and once again you can do it in your driveway and not take the car out of service.

Brakes - call Tobin at Kore3 as you get get a complete brake package for under 2 grand and then call DSE for the bolt in Corvette Brake Booster and then you have a no fuss brake set up that is designed to work together.

Wheels - Look at a forged wheel vs a billet wheel as once again they are 1/3 the price and you can get a nice deal on a 18 x 8 & 18 x 9 set up.

Tire - Tire Rack & Discount tires are your friends and it’s easy to shop the size you want and save some money.

Ps the stock 10 bolt is plenty strong enough for 99% out there. Don’t get sucked in the fact that you need a 9” rear differential.

Interior

Next modification I would do is the interior which you can also do in a weekend if you know where to look.

TMI Interiors - sells do it yourself interiors that are very nice and fairly inexpensive. They have more fabric and material options then you can shake a stick at.

Sound Deadening – While you are swapping out the carpet, door panels & head liner install some DEI sound deadening to reduce the road noise. It makes a huge difference and it helps to make you feel like your in a much safer car.

Saftey. – Put in some 3 Point seat belts as they may just save your life.

Dash Cluster - swap out the Guages to give it a nice updated look.

Intermittent Wipers – If you plan to drive the car this is a worthwhile upgrade

Electical

Honestly the car is 40 plus years old and it may be time to yank that old crap out and install some new stuff. If you are not comfortable doing it then hire the right guy.

American Auto Wire – great guys and they kits are very self-explanatory.


Engine Bay

If your good with that factory small block wow are you going to save some money here. Do you really need an LS motor to look cool. If you do I will add a sub section.

Firewall – Cosmetic Upgrades
Firewall – Clean it up and wrap the wire in a Black Nomex wire wrap, Scrap all of that black plastic crap and don’t hang **** on the firewall (msd box) like they did in the 70’s.
Wiper Motor – Buy the DSE unit it looks and works great.
Brake Booster – You already bought and installed this with your new brakes.
Battery – Replace the Batter with an Optima and buy the Rad Rides remote shut off kit

Inside of the Fenders – Tape them off and touch them up
Inner Fenders – Yank them out and paint them.
Fender Brace – Upgrade them it looks like you actually like your car’s engine bay
Hood Hinges – Billet one’s give big impact and look great (finish should match the fender braces)
Underside of Hood – Steam Pipe wrap the underside of the hood’s opening’s (nice detail)


Actual Engine – Stock Motor - remember this is not your daily driver !!
Valve Covers & Air Cleaners – Machined finished is cheap and give a great look.
Heads – leave them bare Aluminum so people can see you upgraded them.
Headers – Stainless Steel Headers are great but don’t buy long tubes as they hang to low
Timing Chain Cover – Dear God don’t buy a chrome POS but a nice billet one.
Front Drive – Billet Specialties & Vintage Air make beautiful setups and then you get air
Plug Wires – Use bright colors as it attracts the eye
Plug Wire Boots – DEI makes High Temp boots in various colors to increase the impact.


Not sure if you’ve noticed but you have yet to disassemble the car and prevent it from going back together in more than a couple day’s which is the way you should build your first car or any car that is on a budget. What is great is you can take your car to the local cruise night you can show people what you’ve done. And if something happens you can sell the car as a driver and get a good chunk of your money back if you ever have to.


Paint & Body - if it's a 10 footer leave it alone
State your goal with the paint in advance. Do you really need a perfectly gapped car (5 to 10 grand) if you don’t then do yourself and don’t go crazy. Have an experience body shop do a nice paint job and put a set of stripes on the car and accent the car with small details. Look at Steilow last car Hellfire and it has insane Red paint and is accented with Carbon Fiber. The trim is also has a silver /gray finish that really increases the impact of the car.

Details
Engine Bay – should be all black why because every color goes with a black engine bay.

Color – Pick your favorite color and Paint it

Stripe – Put whatever stripe you want on the car and if you want to save money do it with a wrap. Why because if you get bored just peel it off and have a new one put down for a couple hundred dollars.

Accents – Front Spoiler, Mirrors and rear Spoiler paint them black or if you have the budget buy Carbon Fibers ones.

Wheels – Hopefully you picked a wheel that looks good with the color that your car is now painted. If not ship them to the Powder coater and change the color.

.... And this is how you build a car on a budget and have a car that you can be driving while you modify it.

added this to my post because it needed to be added


Marty, Thank you for putting this together. Well done. You said it just right,with lots of good and "real" info. I think I may print this out and hang it in the garage as a reminder:D
It can be very easy to get over your head, and you won't even see it coming. I say the reason I have had my Chevelle for over 2 decades now is because it was torn down for most of the time.:confused18: I wanted it a certain way and got it there. Now it is like Jim Ring told me "you went too far, it's too nice". But it is what I wanted. Not saying I won't do another one that way, but I think I will build the next one that can be used a little more with out worry.
To the OP, you can have your car done by someone and keep in somewhat of your budget. If your price is firm, I would scale it back and allow for incidentals. because well... !#$* happens. You can also look on here and find a car that is just what you looking for and in a price range that works, and maybe even afford to change a few things to your liking.
Good luck and have fun with what ever choice you choose.

[syborg tt]

Your welcome and I agree the same thing happened to me with the truck. It turned out so nice I was afraid to drive it. Thus the reason we built the 70 Camaro. Much more toned down of a build and something that I can play with for years. Heck I even have a Scott Mock chassis sitting in my warehouse that I plan to bring home this weekend and start putting it together. I may even smooth all of the C6 suspension parts similar to what Al's kids have done with there 5th gen Camaro. The cool part is the car can constantly evolve and I am sure at some point it will be way to nice to drive and then I will sell it and start another project.

But for now I want something nice looking and fun to drive. People forget that perfect cars are exactly that and when you get a nick or scratch your heart broken.

Marty, Thank you for putting this together. Well done. You said it just right,with lots of good and "real" info. I think I may print this out and hang it in the garage as a reminder:D
It can be very easy to get over your head, and you won't even see it coming. I say the reason I have had my Chevelle for over 2 decades now is because it was torn down for most of the time.:confused18: I wanted it a certain way and got it there. Now it is like Jim Ring told me "you went too far, it's too nice". But it is what I wanted. Not saying I won't do another one that way, but I think I will build the next one that can be used a little more with out worry.
To the OP, you can have your car done by someone and keep in somewhat of your budget. If your price is firm, I would scale it back and allow for incidentals. because well... !#$* happens. You can also look on here and find a car that is just what you looking for and in a price range that works, and maybe even afford to change a few things to your liking.
Good luck and have fun with what ever choice you choose.

[Revved]

This thread should be stickied as "Must read" right after the forum rules when someone signs up for Lat-G

There is a lot of REALITY in this thread that most of us just glaze over when talking about our projects and ordering our parts. For you new guys... listen to the voice of reason from the guys that have been around because its true. This cycle repeats itself again and again. Everyone wants to build Troy or Stielow, or DSE's latest car in their garage but the reality is there are are thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars in these builds. They are beautiful, they build excitement for our industry but in reality they are out of reach of 99% of us as they should be. We all need something to aspire to.

I've built building professionally for going on 8 years now on my own (20+in the biz). I am very blessed to have a clientele that can afford to indulge this hobby and I get to build people's dream cars. I've learned over the years when I get a cold call about someone shopping to build a project and in the first 5 minutes they tell me they want the "biggest, baddest, fastest, and money is no object" that we will never build a car. Once we start talking about the sheer "cubic dollars" of what it costs to build a car like they are asking for the pauses in the conversation start getting longer.

I try to lead the next part of the conversation back around to... "What do you want to do with the car?" Most of the time their response is... I just want something cool to drive. So then we start building realistic expectations, and honestly for someone who wants to build a driver on a "budget" (see previous comments... i.e. under $100k) it is cheaper to find a nice $30k car that someone else has mildly built and/or restored and modify from there with your end goal in mind. This brings up the next point that a couple guys mentioned.... there is a lot of junk out there so no matter what you buy you need to have it professionally inspected or at least bring your buddy that knows how cars are built to look for the metal tape, bondo, self tapping screws, and scotch locks. If nothing else, knowing the true condition of a vehicle becomes a negotiation point... Maybe the guy knows he got shafted when he paid someone to build the car for him and is asking top dollar but when you confront him with the reality of the car he may want to wash his hands of it for a reasonable price... main point is... Know what you are buying. These cars offer enough surprises as it is- you don't want to buy one with extra. If you can buy a car that doesn't have to go into a body shop then you will save a lot of time and money. Once you get into the paint and body on a car you either go all the way or not at all. It is expensive and you can't just say.. Oh I'll come back and fix that later. Expect to pay $30k+ to strip, typical rust repair for a 40yr old car, prime, block paint for the current acceptable level of "pro-touring" quality paint job when you are paying a body shop. Last two cars I had paint work redone on had 600 hrs in stripping, sheet metal work, redoing bodywork and painting... do the math on that at 65/hr for paint work.

Once you have your main goal in mind start building your project from there. As forementioned... sure a Roadster Shop chassis is bad ass thing to have... but do you really need it if you are on a budget and just want to do car cruises? I seem to remember some great car cruises back before we had all of these options.

If you are on a budget and really want to have all those trick features... build yourself a staged build plan. Get a running driving car now and enjoy it. Make your self a 1yr, 3yr, 5 yr plan for mods you want to do and start saving your pennies. Get your wife on board or those pennies will go towards a European vacation instead of Detroit Speed but that is another conversation. Too many people scatter their cars with high hopes of building the next great car and end up selling a basket case 10 years later. If you don't have the time or financial means to keep your project moving at a steady pace then do it in stages and keep the car functional. You will enjoy it much more, your wife will enjoy it much more, your kids won't be sword fighting in the yard with your door lock rods and you won't get burned out on your project.

If you have the means to pay someone to build your car professionally then shop around. As the guys mentioned there are a wide variety of door rates and cheaper doesn't always mean better, neither does more expensive. Shop on value not on price. Go see their work in person, at their shop. Talk to past customers if you can. Anybody can make a shiny car, but you want to see what is behind the PPG. How do they wire it? How do they plumb it? What is the quality of their assembly where you can't see it at a carshow? Is it built serviceable where it can be dismantled like an OE car if anything ever needed to? What abilities does the shop have? Metal shaping, fabrication, TIG, MIG? What are they doing in house vs. outsourcing? If they have to drive to their buddies shop to use the lathe, that is likely time you are paying for. Is their shop clean and organized? Do they itemize their billing so you know exactly what you are paying for? Bring along a friend or hire a professional that knows the business to come to the shop with you and critique what is going on. It might be a few hundred bucks spent up front that might save you tens of thousands in the back end.

You want custom metal shaping on your car? Smoothed engine firewall, aprons, rad support finish panels like those big builds? Maybe a custom floorpan for your modern trans? Wheel tubbing? Cubic hours again... and finding people to do quality metal shaping work is hard to find. It is becoming a standard of any quality build so a lot more people are learning the art but it is cubic hours on our end to learn it to be able to offer it.. not to mention tens of thousands in metal shaping equipment.

I could go on and on as you guys know... Main thing... Set your goals. Get professional advice if you have questions. Build a plan and stick to it. Drive as much as you can.

[Wissing72]

We all do it or something close to it. I look at that car of mine now and am glad I did it, and try to tell myself "its just a car" it can be fixed.... We will see. I am enjoying the shows at the moment. With little ones it is hard to get to them, let alone other events. Where we live doesn't help either. Plus they don't give you points for nicks and scratches. At least is is doing the same thing as before, just prettier to look at!
Now our goal is to get some media exposure on the car and scratch that off the list. Don't know if we will sell it soon and try a different avenue or not. It is hard to improve on this one since it has had everything done to it.
I like your camaro, and the way your going about it. Your truck was over the top but was fun to watch come together.

[GregWeld]

This hobby IS a blast.... and can be done on whatever level a guy can afford to do it on. I've never met anyone and judged them on how their car was obtained except that I won't bother with people that obviously don't care. By that I mean the guys that have plug wires looped around the shock tower. I costs nothing to clean up and route a set of plug wires. If you go to a show and raise your hood to show you don't care... then we probably don't have much in common.

To the OP.....


What you'll find is that this is a hobby. It's the best group of people and you can have fun at any level. I completely agree with those that say you can do this at all manor of dollars. All manor of time and everywhere in between. Just don't think you're going to build or drive a SEMA show car and you'll be just fine.

I'd suggest taking your time to buy a done car -- make sure you like the color first... don't buy a yellow car and want a black car. That will save you a lot down the road. But as many have stated here don't just look at the paint. Also don't be fooled by the killer list of parts. Great parts installed poorly are the most costly! That's a costly re-do. I'd rather have a factory leaf spring car that someone hasn't butchered.

Think about your time - You can take the time UPFRONT and wait and shop and get the best car you can for your money.....The shopping process alone will teach you a ton! The longer you shop the more you'll learn. Or you can jump in and buy some POS and spend the time on the back end waiting to drive it. Your call.

Many of us on here enjoy the journey in many different ways. Some have the money - some have the skills - some of us have built dozens of cars - some are first timers... some are over their heads and some aren't anywhere near what they could afford to spend. Doesn't matter. Do what's right for your personal situation. If you love this stuff - then this won't be your first or last car. You'll live and learn - you'll make mistakes - you'll survive and do it all over again. You'll meet life long friends and make lifetime memories.

[MeanMike]

If it hasn't been mentioned already:

If you plan to do a lot of your own work, make sure you really enjoy the process of building a car. For me I think I enjoy building more than driving/car shows etc.. I'm OK with it taking years to finish the build because that's the part I like the most. I've sold more than a couple cars shortly after "finishing" them because I got bored.

If you don't enjoy the building process, seriously think about buying a finished car so you can be enjoying it. Whether you do the work or farm it out 3+ years is a long time to have a massive chunk of money out on a car you cannot "enjoy".

I think it was said before, but the hidden cost of tools to do the work is substantial. I can do everything but paint and I estimate I have $35K in tools and machinery to do all that and I still can't build a car on the level some of these guys talk about.

[uxojerry]

Im into my 65 Corvette for about $140k with $10k to go. You could subtract $20k or so for the premium paid for a C2 versus a Camaro. I didn't do the work myself but I did select and buy all of the parts.

Ive learned a lot and hope to build my 68 Corvette for about half the cost of the C2. Chrome bumper (68-72) C3 project cars are dirt cheap and make for a nice project. I bought mine two years ago for $2500, and there are several in the $5k range currently.

A used C6 Z06 can be had for $35k-$45k. Another great deal is the discounts on the new Z28. I almost pulled the trigger on one for $55k with ac.

Discipline must be maintained while building, lol. It is easy to get distracted with the latest and greatest. Changes in the build midstride can get very costly.

[Smittys67]

Make a plan and stick to it! Do not buy parts 2 or 3 times because you changed your mind or there is something new. These cars are a blast but pricey.

The one big thing the do it yourself guys don't usually add up every $20-$100 dollars part they buy. They add up fast.

[Dirtmod08]

This hobby IS a blast.... and can be done on whatever level a guy can afford to do it on. I've never met anyone and judged them on how their car was obtained except that I won't bother with people that obviously don't care. By that I mean the guys that have plug wires looped around the shock tower. I costs nothing to clean up and route a set of plug wires. If you go to a show and raise your hood to show you don't care... then we probably don't have much in common.
Many of us on here enjoy the journey in many different ways. Some have the money - some have the skills - some of us have built dozens of cars - some are first timers... some are over their heads and some aren't anywhere near what they could afford to spend. Doesn't matter. Do what's right for your personal situation. If you love this stuff - then this won't be your first or last car. You'll live and learn - you'll make mistakes - you'll survive and do it all over again. You'll meet life long friends and make lifetime memories.
Being a new member here, and seeing the cost and caliber of some of the builds on here - this is refreshing to read. I am somewhat financially challenged and married.:goofy:

[GregWeld]

Being a new member here, and seeing the cost and caliber of some of the builds on here - this is refreshing to read. I am somewhat financially challenged and married.:goofy:




Personally --- I'm way more impressed with a guy that can do some work - at whatever level that is --- and or, has stretched his budget by being smart and patient.... and is making the most he can with what he's got to work with. Pride has a lot to do with that.

Anyone that has money can have a car built. That doesn't take any talent at all. Nor does it take the kind of attitude and decisions and hard work that working within a budget does.


Still doesn't mean I'm going to cut Siegmund any slack....

[GregWeld]

Make a plan and stick to it! Do not buy parts 2 or 3 times because you changed your mind or there is something new. These cars are a blast but pricey.

The one big thing the do it yourself guys don't usually add up every $20-$100 dollars part they buy. They add up fast.



Right on Smitty!! That was also the reason for my "tools cost money too!" post. If a guy has a "budget" --- there's so many budget busters that people just don't figure in. Small parts - hard to find parts - shipping costs - specialty tools.... and then the "I wants" part of the build comes into play. And the OOPS -- didn't count on that issues creep in...

So you have two things going on --- MONEY FATIGUE..... as there are just other things in life that a guy wants to do and have besides the car.... and HOURS FATIGUE..... a guy can only just grind so many hours before it just flat ass gets old. Usually those "breaks" get drawn out longer, the longer the project takes.... or the more ambitious the plan was to start with.

The most FUN I've had doing cars -- was building cars with buddies! Their build - their dreams - my shop my tools.... but it was doing stuff together that made it all fun. Some Saturdays we'd just give up and say F it and go to a car show instead. Some days we just shopped or chased parts all day. Some days we did a bunch on the car.... To some of us THAT is the hobby. TO others it's having a done car and they wax it every Sunday and take it to a show. Whatever.... It's the DOING whatever that doing represents --- that's the part that makes it all worthwhile.

[Dirtmod08]

Personally --- I'm way more impressed with a guy that can do some work - at whatever level that is --- and or, has stretched his budget by being smart and patient.... and is making the most he can with what he's got to work with. Pride has a lot to do with that.

Anyone that has money can have a car built. That doesn't take any talent at all. Nor does it take the kind of attitude and decisions and hard work that working within a budget does.


Still doesn't mean I'm going to cut Siegmund any slack....

I know what it's like to build something from nothing. The car I traded for the camaro I just got was built from sticks of steel stock on my garage floor. I was pretty pleased the car ended up going down the road pretty good. Looking back, I'm not sure I'd be in a great hurry to start another one anytime soon though. This one took me a whole year to build.
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b638/23WillysRoadster/PROGRESS%20PICS/IMG00257-20100202-2144_zpsc4e9c318.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb241/dirtmod08/IMG_20140414_063218372_zpsmgvknium.jpg
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b638/23WillysRoadster/DSC_0109_zps2cf6d516.jpg

[Che70velle]

Cool car!

[Dirtmod08]

Cool car!

Thanks. Guess my point is, I didn't spend a ton of money building this. Paint instead of chrome, second hand parts, and garage fabrication saved my butt from spending a large fortune. There were plenty of components necessary to buy new, but I really had to contemplate what I was going to buy and what I was going to refurbish or fabricate to get this built. My broke ass even had to do the bodywork and paint, lol.

[Revved]

The most FUN I've had doing cars -- was building cars with buddies! Their build - their dreams - my shop my tools.... but it was doing stuff together that made it all fun. Some Saturdays we'd just give up and say F it and go to a car show instead. Some days we just shopped or chased parts all day. Some days we did a bunch on the car.... To some of us THAT is the hobby. TO others it's having a done car and they wax it every Sunday and take it to a show. Whatever.... It's the DOING whatever that doing represents --- that's the part that makes it all worthwhile.

I've got to say that I miss this the most. Since I do this to pay the bills I don't have a lot of time for "fun projects." I don't have room for a buddy to move in a car that is taking up production space and hang out for unknown number of weekends when I've been doing it all week and want to just spend time with my family doing anything else. Something to think about before quitting your day job to build cars.