Project Greyscale 1971 Trans Am

[bsharpe]

Its about time i start a build thread for my new project. I am on this forum alot more than any other so I figured its about time to Share and contribute. Here is my quick rendering i created.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/rendering1_zpsb3dbfd29.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/RearRendering2_zps51503a69.jpg
I originally just wanted to make some upgrades to the Chevelle i built 4 years ago but i decided to start from scratch. I just couldnt tear the chevelle apart.

I picked up the firebird shell and parts as you see here.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_210344_zpsatyibiay.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_210344_zpsatyibiay.jpg.html)
the car had some rust and damage but was pretty solid. It has rust in the normal areas and had damage on most panels but i dont like show cars i just want a driver.

I liked the ly6 6l90 i put in the chevelle but prices have gone up since. I found a 2010 l92 locally on craigslist and got a used 6l90 from a zl1 camaro similar but a better drivetrain compared to the chevelle.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140225_221823_zpsrpi9mujp.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140225_221823_zpsrpi9mujp.jpg.html)
The suspension was the hardest decision. f bodys have way to many options compared to the a-body. I purchased one of scott mocks early subframes from someone who decided to go a different route. i decided to go with ridetechs 4 link in the rear to save a little money.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140626_204821_zpsko80g11n.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140626_204821_zpsko80g11n.jpg.html)
I am currently trying to mock everythin up. I will add some more pictures later.

[tazzz2_ca]

You're going to like that ride/combo a whole lot..... Congrats on a great start I'll try checking in on your thread as time allows....

[WSSix]

Nice rendering. Welcome to the site, and good luck!

[bsharpe]

You're going to like that ride/combo a whole lot..... Congrats on a great start I'll try checking in on your thread as time allows....

Thanks Albert, Cochise and your other cars have been great motivation and references. Hopefully i can get some of your carbon fiber parts down the road.

[bsharpe]

I currently have everything mocked up and I'm running into some problems.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141129_235003_zpsnyrlz5uo.jpg

The subframe contacts the floor and doesnt fit as well as I hoped. I am using aluminum full height bushings at the firewall mounts but the subframe is really tight to the floors which are original. I know that Scott used half height body mounts on Cochise so I think something might be wrong. the subframe angles down a lot if I used full height body bushings in the rear so I used the half height bushings at the back only which leveled the subframe rails and helped with ground clearance.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20141213_140710_zpsuteuewqa.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20141213_140616_zpsm42nvcug.jpg


The l92 intake does not clear the hood. I cut and rewelded the engine mounts as low as I could already. This could be caused by the subframe body mount issue. it is very close but the map sensor hits. I might relocate it or switch intakes.


I got AME headers with the subframe but they contact the floor. I raised the trans alot higher than most setups so this made things worse. I will most likely have to switch to a different set of headers.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20141213_140241_zpscryfs5dc.jpg

[Rick D]

As the great Weld would say "that's Hot Rodding" :D

But seriously just because the parts "bolt"on doesn't mean they are "bolt on" parts, you have to find the right combination for your car to make it all work correctly. Remember this cars are VERY different from one another to begin with so some adjustment may be necessary.

By the way love the car and project!!

[BossaNova]

Ahhh. Welcome to the world of hot rodding.
Love your ideas. Don't give up!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

you really thought that the LQ manifold was going to fit under the hood?...


well then.. prepare your anus..

cause all of that will be surely charged to the game of HOTRODDING..

beat the floor up til it fits!..

[Sonar Chief]

That rendering is spot one! I know the feeling ... just this Friday I was ready to bolt on the upper bars and wtf, where is the other 5/8-11 jam nut? Luckily, there is a Fastenal here in town, so mad dash before they close because they aren't open when everyone else has time!!!!

Keep at it ... it will be worth it!

Michael

[bsharpe]

As the great Weld would say "that's Hot Rodding" :D

But seriously just because the parts "bolt"on doesn't mean they are "bolt on" parts, you have to find the right combination for your car to make it all work correctly. Remember this cars are VERY different from one another to begin with so some adjustment may be necessary.

By the way love the car and project!!
I understand the hot rodding mindset and never expect things to "blot on". Especially considering I tend to do things a little differently with my builds. I dont think a 6l80/90 has been put in a 2nd gen yet so i new there were going to be plenty of challenges.

you really thought that the LQ manifold was going to fit under the hood?...


well then.. prepare your anus..

cause all of that will be surely charged to the game of HOTRODDING..

beat the floor up til it fits!..
I know i can make the truck intake fit. I love running the truck stuff on my builds. the intake performs the same as an ls3 intake but more torque and everything is dirt cheap.

I have the same setup in my chevelle.http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0253_zpssr2o072m.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0253_zpssr2o072m.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0250_zps6jtccezv.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0250_zps6jtccezv.jpg.html)

It is close now. I just need to figure out where to put the subframe before i make any more changes.

That rendering is spot one! I know the feeling ... just this Friday I was ready to bolt on the upper bars and wtf, where is the other 5/8-11 jam nut? Luckily, there is a Fastenal here in town, so mad dash before they close because they aren't open when everyone else has time!!!!

Keep at it ... it will be worth it!

Michael
The car has a lot of potential. I am going to do a couple of custom body mods but the cars looked great stock.

I build my cars during nights and weekends, its tuff to find time to make calls and buy things during regular business hours.

[bsharpe]

The 6l90 is huge and has awful ground clearance. I want to be able to comfortably drive this car. I raised the trans 3" to allow plenty of clearance. I might need to raise the entire driveshaft tunnel but i wont know until I get the rear 4link setup.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140726_234301_zpscfpasuid.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140726_234301_zpscfpasuid.jpg.html)

Unfortunately, I found my fully welded trans tunnel interfered with the vintage air unit. I moved everything to the passenger side as far as possible and hammered the cowl area allow more room.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140912_161427_zpsleyowx5m.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140912_161427_zpsleyowx5m.jpg.html)

Since I am using vintage air, I shaved the firewall. the firewall on the 2nd gens arent flat. The gas pedal area is recessed more and sticks out farther into the engine bay. I think it turned out alright.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-09/20140920_002110_zpsmonfeexo.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-09/20140920_002110_zpsmonfeexo.jpg.html)


You can also see I relocated the wiper motor to under the drivers fender. I used a motor from a 4th gen i picked up for free.

[bsharpe]

I really like the c5 Z06 wheels, I plan on using them on this car as well. I found a set on craigslist for 450 and they came with a decent set of tires. The tires are old but they aren’t dry rotted. I will use the 18x10.5’s on the Trans Am and the 17x9.5’s on the chevelle. I plan on running 295/35/18 on all 4 corners for now but I might end up buying new tires and going with 315’s for the rear.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140730_212644_zpsjxmnl3bz.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140730_212644_zpsjxmnl3bz.jpg.html)

I want black wheels on the Trans Am but I don’t want to devalue the wheels so I decided to plasti-dip them. This was the first time using plasti-dip and it worked out really well. Hopefully they will hold up to the abuse but again this is not a show car.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141116_121247_zps2ubzvuf7.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141116_121247_zps2ubzvuf7.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141121_170322_zpswzsel99u.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141121_170322_zpswzsel99u.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

Scott verified that his subframe had a similar fit on Grendel's Mullet Camaro. The half height body mounts can not be used at the firewall. I can now move forward with confidence in my setup.

I might keep the subframe wedged as i have it now with the small body mounts in the rear and full height at the firewall. I did the math and the suspension angles will only change by 1.2 degrees.

I am going to move the motor mounts again but I am waiting on my new headers to show up first. You can see how i already lowered the mounts in the pictures below.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_234245_zpsrfjxcrgk.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140824_161459_zpslpwbittg.jpg

I will also add Scotts new extended shock mount to allow a lower ride height.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Great effort on the 'Bird. :thumbsup:

[grendel]

Glad I could help in your build ;)

[preston]

Its not the best photo but those wheels look nice in plasti-dip. I might have to try that. Due to my brakes I have to use race pads which leaves everything horrible and its corroding the aluminum so I have to at least paint them but that looks kind of cool. Thanks for the tip, and good luck getting your stuff put together. When I run into problems like that I break out the sawzall !

[bsharpe]

Great effort on the 'Bird. :thumbsup:
Thanks

Glad I could help in your build ;)
Your build helps but it also makes me want to spend more than I need to, like a lot of the builds on here. Anvil CF, IRS its addicting

Its not the best photo but those wheels look nice in plasti-dip. I might have to try that. Due to my brakes I have to use race pads which leaves everything horrible and its corroding the aluminum so I have to at least paint them but that looks kind of cool. Thanks for the tip, and good luck getting your stuff put together. When I run into problems like that I break out the sawzall !
Its cheap and easy to try plasti-dip. I would recommend it. They look great but I don't know how they are going to hold up.

[waynieZ]

The wheels look great in black, the plasti-dip looks like it works good.

[OLDFLM]

I don't know why, but everytime I look at this thread I think of this rendering:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv273/OLDFLM/70_115_zps920fee3b.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/70_115_zps920fee3b.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

I got the 2010 L92 engine from craigslist. It came from a escalade that had bad lifter noise. The dealership replaced the engine under warranty and i ended up getting the engine for a good deal.

I know the AFM/DOD lifters have had some issues so i wanted to upgrade the top end. The L92 has VVT as well and i wanted to keep it. VVT gives you the best of both worlds, low end torque and top end HP.

After doing some research i decided to go with a Cam from Gwatney Performance. They seem to have more knowledge on the VVT 6l80/90 setups.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140516_175750_zpsxpnmqrz7.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140516_175734_zpslngvvhxu.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140516_175718_zpscgwwfw0w.jpg
This last picture shows the bad lifter which almost completely wiped out the cam lobe.

I installed the new cam, comp vvt phaser, new lifters, pushrods and brian tooley springs. The install was pretty simple. The only hard part was lining up the cam phaser and gear while getting the chain on.

I took my time but somehow messed it up once. I noticed the timing was off when i went to torque down the rockers but i got it setup.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140718_143248_zpsszvpenwd.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140718_195411_zpsxvpx1jxc.jpg

[chichirone]

Another sweet Bird build. Keep posting up the pics. I really like your rendering. I'm a bit partial to a White TA though. Ha!

[GrabberGT]

Love the stacks coming through the hood. Looks mean as heJJ.

[bsharpe]

I don't know why, but everytime I look at this thread I think of this rendering:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv273/OLDFLM/70_115_zps920fee3b.jpg (http://s691.photobucket.com/user/OLDFLM/media/70_115_zps920fee3b.jpg.html)
Love the stacks coming through the hood. Looks mean as heJJ.
I found and saved that rendering a while ago. I like it a lot. My car probably doesn't deserve to be compared to it.


Another sweet Bird build. Keep posting up the pics. I really like your rendering. I'm a bit partial to a White TA though. Ha!

There have been a lot of new firebird builds lately. I enjoyed following your build. I hope you don't mind but I might copy your front air splitter setup down the road.

[bsharpe]

The Escalade engine has a deep truck pan. I bought a used f-body pan but it i noticed it had a small hair line crack. Luckily the seller was understanding(i think he knew it was cracked) and refunded me. its not easy to find good f-body pans anymore. I decided to repair it. I put a thin layer of RTV on the inside and Jb weld on the outside.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140513_220001_zps0hemhjru.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140513_220001_zps0hemhjru.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140715_205654_zpsyd6dda5l.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140715_205654_zpsyd6dda5l.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140715_205644_zpsmaz0sfjy.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140715_205644_zpsmaz0sfjy.jpg.html)


I also bought a used baffle from impoved racing. I dont want to have issues if i take this thing on the road course.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/EGM-1000_1_lg_zpsf589458d.jpg

[coolwelder62]

I could tig weld that for you if you were closer.

[srh3trinity]

I like those baffles and I think one will make it into my build. Let me know what you think of the quality.

[coolwelder62]

I've use improved racing's products in my last 3 builds.

[bsharpe]

I could tig weld that for you if you were closer.
I think i am going to buy a tig machine before my next project.

I like those baffles and I think one will make it into my build. Let me know what you think of the quality. I bought a used one and was very impressed with quality and fit. Its definitely worth the money in my mind.

I've use improved racing's products in my last 3 builds.

[bsharpe]

I loved how unique the escalade gauges were in my chevelle. I really wanted to setup the BCM and use another set of factory set of gauges.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140620_193604_zps0payfzec.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140620_193604_zps0payfzec.jpg.html)

I had used the Dakota Digital Gauges on another project and decided to use them again to keep things simple.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150111_131423_zpsjdldembs.jpg

Its a bad picture and they obviously havent been wired yet but I am happy with how they look. I also got the Bim-001 Module since I want to see the trans gears when manually shifting the 6l90.

[chichirone]

There have been a lot of new firebird builds lately. I enjoyed following your build. I hope you don't mind but I might copy your front air splitter setup down the road.

Don't mind at all. You kidding me. It would be great to see another Bird with a splitter running around out there at events. Let me know if you need any pics or have any questions on it.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Want to see this thing done!. The big front splitter screams awesome:Tomcat:

[bsharpe]

The 8.5 10 bolts are strong and could handle the LS3 but mine was an open rear. I would have needed to rebuild it and by new stronger axles. Considering I was going to change the rear suspension I started to look at my other options.


I started reading about the detroit lockers and learned the 9" lockers will perform better since they dont have c clips and cross pin. I was able to pick up a complete big web 9" that included a 31 spline third member with 3.20 gears and a locker for around $280 on Craigslist.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140608_175747_zpss0m44wnk.jpg
It was in rough shape but it cleaned up after a little work.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150207_160609_zps8nqhxpo4.jpg
I will go over the suspension in the next update

[WSSix]

Nice score!

[bsharpe]

Nice score!

I have seen similar deals. I was going to remove the suspension brackets and bearing ends no matter what. I could use any ford 9". Finding a third member with a good original locker takes patience and it might not last with how i plan to drive it.

[WSSix]

That's part of why I said screw it and just built a 10bolt. I had no desire to just wait around scouring the classifieds in an attempt to find a deal.

[bsharpe]

The front Subframe came with ridetech coilovers and I have always like Ridetech's products. It was an easy to pick their 4 link for the rear. The install seemed simple and the price is better than most of the other options. I got the weld on lower brackets since I was using the 9" housing and I also went with the rod ends but I wish I did a combination with some Poly joints.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/70camaro_zpsetyeq7x2.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/70camaro_zpsetyeq7x2.jpg.html)
The upper cradles were very easy to install. They fit my car very well and needed no adjustments. The rest of the install was not as easy as I had hoped. I knew some fabrication and welding was needed for the "bolt in" 4 link but I was really disappointed with the instructions and information available from ridetech.

The directions don't include a single measurement or diagram to help you locate the brackets. They make it seem like they fall into place but that is not the case especially when using a 9".

After calling and getting as much info as possible I starting installing the brackets. I needed to modify the upper brackets to fit on the 9" housing but finally got everything where I thought they should be and welded the brackets on.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20141220_160302_zpsikgxlj2g.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141220_160302_zpsikgxlj2g.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150207_160623_zpskqllwztc.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150207_160623_zpskqllwztc.jpg.html)

[syborg tt]

When you install the brackets on the rear frame rails they were designed to be bolted in. A few guys have fully welded there brackets in and had the frame rails crack.

Here is what we did on 2nd chance.

http://garagescene.net/gallery3/var/resizes/Builders/Sportmachines/702ndChance/2011%2006-28%202nd%20Chance%20Camaro%20Hi%20Speed%20005.JPG

http://garagescene.net/gallery3/var/resizes/Builders/Sportmachines/702ndChance/2011%2006-28%202nd%20Chance%20Camaro%20Hi%20Speed%20015.JPG


http://garagescene.net/gallery3/var/resizes/Builders/Sportmachines/702ndChance/2011%2006-28%202nd%20Chance%20Camaro%20Hi%20Speed%20003.JPG

http://garagescene.net/gallery3/var/resizes/Builders/Sportmachines/702ndChance/2011%2006-28%202nd%20Chance%20Camaro%20Hi%20Speed%20001.JPG

On a side not I don't plan to track this car just autocross and I believe the two cars that have had there frame rails crack were both on a Road Course.

[bsharpe]

When you install the brackets on the rear frame rails they were designed to be bolted in. A few guys have fully welded there brackets in and had the frame rails crack.

Here is what we did on 2nd chance.On a side not I don't plan to track this car just autocross and I believe the two cars that have had there frame rails crack were both on a Road Course.

I read about the cracked frames on Jay's thread. I am glad that I have not welded the frame brackets yet. I didn't plan on fully welding them but I am now considering strengthening the frame first. I looked into the replacement rails today. They are expensive but I do plan on going on a Road Course.

[syborg tt]

I read about the cracked frames on Jay's thread. I am glad that I have not welded the frame brackets yet. I didn't plan on fully welding them but I am now considering strengthening the frame first. I looked into the replacement rails today. They are expensive but I do plan on going on a Road Course.

Fairly certain you can get a set of Rails from Art Morrison.

[bsharpe]

I have been working with Jay(JSM) since he originally posted his c5/c6 flange setup. I knew that I wanted to use this type of flange on my current build. I was honestly waiting for DSE to finalize their setup using Steilows flanges.
I am extremely happy that Jay offered his flanges first.
This setup is not only better and more versatile than all the other options but it is also cheaper than most. The flanges might seem expensive when compared to a set of Ford Big bearing flanges($80) but you don't need brackets like those available from Kore3($750 for parking brake).

I already had a Ford 9" housing so I ordered the flanges and jig ends from Jay. I also ordered Mittler Bros 60" alignment bar from Jegs($130) and the 2.890 inner alignment blocks($80) for the third member from JEGS.


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150202_174639_zpsml90ehxc.jpg

Jay will loan the larger inner alignment blocks but the third member cases with larger bearings are harder to find and are more expensive. I bought a empty case for $40 on craigslist. I now own a Jig for any 9" housing.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150202_223522_zpswvyeaybf.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150202_223952_zps2qdemjr0.jpg
I measured and cut my axle tubes to the correct lengths. Assembling the fixture and using the jigs is extremely simple. I than tacked the flanges on and test fit everything under the car to make sure everything was perfect.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150210_220651_zpsyhie0pa7.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150210_221321_zps7ph7rwhd.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150210_215755_zpskdsha3on.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150210_220334_zpslphptvis.jpg

Everything looked great so I put it back in the Jig and had the axle fully welded. Truck Tech on spike had a good episode on building a custom 9". You can watch them online http://www.powernationtv.com/episode/TT2015-02/custom-9-rear-gear
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150216_223819_zpsqu7ge7fw.jpg

I am now waiting for the weather to warm up so I can paint and assemble evrything

[Sonar Chief]

Nice ... I was wondering how they might work out, looks like they are just what you need for the swap.

Thanks for sharing .... might be a rev. 2 for my 12 bolt!

[syborg tt]

Wow that is a great looking kit for the 9" almost makes me want to swap to a 9.

[paulk68]

"The directions don't include a single measurement or diagram to help you locate the brackets. They make it seem like they fall into place but that is not the case especially when using a 9".

After calling and getting as much info as possible I starting installing the brackets. I needed to modify the upper brackets to fit on the 9" housing but finally got everything where I thought they should be and welded the brackets on."


The products are great but I have struggled with the directions as well and called several times to clarify. I was hoping they were a little more detailed.

[bsharpe]

Nice ... I was wondering how they might work out, looks like they are just what you need for the swap.

Thanks for sharing .... might be a rev. 2 for my 12 bolt! It is great setup. I lucked out and the timing worked perfectly for this build.

Wow that is a great looking kit for the 9" almost makes me want to swap to a 9.
You can use the flanges with the 12bolt but you would have to tear it apart to put it in a jig.

You need to build another car. I remember seeing you have one of Scotts subframes sitting around.

I just hope more builds start using ABS. I need more info so its easier when I try to add it.


The products are great but I have struggled with the directions as well and called several times to clarify. I was hoping they were a little more detailed.

It is great that they have people on the phones answering questions but i would prefer all the info added to the instructions. I work on my stuff at night and dont like to make calls.

[bsharpe]

I finished installing the 4 link and 9". I decided to keep my frame rails since they are in great shape and thicker replacements were offer $500.

I tried to strengthen the frame and 4 link bracket to prevent cracking. It looks like the other cars frame cracked in front of the 4 link cradle/bracket. This is where the frames are thinnest from being bent.

I took a piece of 1/8 angle iron to strengthen this area. I welded it to the ridetech bracket hoping it would help distribute the load. I also welded the ridetech bracket in a few spots to help secure it.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150222_134450_zpsf5iya1tp.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150222_142149_zpsaitmhe1y.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150222_154558_zpseonxzve9.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150222_154620_zpsmslybtqh.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150222_165256_zps9y9aiz7i.jpg

[bsharpe]

Now that the rear suspension and axle have been installed i can finish up the trans and driveshaft tunnel. The 6l90 is huge and requires the trans tunnel to be widened and raised. The yoke is also very high compared to other trans and required the cross brace to be replaced and the driveshaft tunnel raised.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150228_153406_zpsrbhqapl5.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150228_153406_zpsrbhqapl5.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150228_222812_zpsxqnoeray.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150228_222812_zpsxqnoeray.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150301_161308_zpsbq51iiai.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150301_161308_zpsbq51iiai.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-09/20140920_002146_zps1xkeczb0.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-09/20140920_002146_zps1xkeczb0.jpg.html)

With that done i am going to work on test fitting the interior. I am stealing the seats from the chevelle. I like them a lot and they will work better in the trans am.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0208_zpsuc1rvgln.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0208_zpsuc1rvgln.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

The interior has been installed. I mounted the seats as low aspossible. Im only 5'9" and have 4" of clearance above my head which should be plenty of room.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150322_164701_LLS_zpsuvlpuzxu.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150322_164701_LLS_zpsuvlpuzxu.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150322_164737_zpsqm1nlrsm.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150322_164737_zpsqm1nlrsm.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150322_164639_LLS_zpsar1c6uud.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/20150322_164639_LLS_zpsar1c6uud.jpg.html)

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Love this thing, especially the recaros

[WSSix]

Nice work. Tell me more about them there Recaros , would ya. Thanks

[bsharpe]

Nice work. Tell me more about them there Recaros , would ya. Thanks
I got the seats from a Saturn ion redline. They should be tha same as the chevy cobalt ss seats. I really like them and they fit me well. They are taller than regular recaros and are not a good fit for most muscle cars.

[WSSix]

Thanks. They seem to fit the bird well. They also look like they are manual or mostly manual seats. Are they?

[bsharpe]

Thanks. They seem to fit the bird well. They also look like they are manual or mostly manual seats. Are they?

They are all manual and fold forward nicely to get to the back seat. I am glad they look to fit well. I had to cut up and modify the back seats to get them to fit. I also had to cut off all of the brackets from the front seats. I extended the sliders and bolted them directly to the floor braces in order to get rhem as low as possible.

[srh3trinity]

I like the Recaros. I looked at them as an option, but was curious about the baseplate/sliders. I am 6'4" and they look like the sit really high. I may try to buy the rear seats and a more classic Recaro for the front. These second gen Birds don't have a lot of headroom

[bsharpe]

I haven't been able to work on the car in a while and probably wont be able to for another couple of weeks. I have to many house and other projects to complete. I will try and go back and document what I did to the car before I started the thread.

The car had very little rust but there were several body panels that needed to be repaired. This car will not be a show car. It wont even get a nice paint job. It is going to be a driver that I don't have to worry about scratching. So instead of buying new body panels to repair the car I practiced my fabricating skills and made my own patch panels.

Both sides of the cowl area had rotted away. there were a few smaller spots like the lower rear quarter. You can see I also deleted the rear side marker lights

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_210455_zpscuyu9md4.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_210455_zpscuyu9md4.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_214624_zpstuaozfms.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_214624_zpstuaozfms.jpg.html)


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_214610_zpsywf3ryob.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140625_214610_zpsywf3ryob.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140228_141223_zpsyph4agai.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140228_141223_zpsyph4agai.jpg.html)


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140308_173235_zpsfzqw6omt.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140308_173235_zpsfzqw6omt.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140323_164448_zpsm8o9euez.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140323_164448_zpsm8o9euez.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140328_151737_zpslkmk6ksq.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140328_151737_zpslkmk6ksq.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

The car had also been in a few accidents. The entire left side of the car had been damaged. Since I don't care about straight panels and paint I decided to patch and repair what I had. While I was at it I decided to widen the rear flares slightly.


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_210449_zpsmgdx5teg.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140209_210449_zpsmgdx5teg.jpg.html)


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140411_185422_zpskrygzz2l.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140411_185422_zpskrygzz2l.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140411_192848_zpsm5go0nyd.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140411_192848_zpsm5go0nyd.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140411_192840_zpsypjjp1p6.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140411_192840_zpsypjjp1p6.jpg.html)




http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140727_193340_zpswmuqarej.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140727_193340_zpswmuqarej.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140601_155058_zpspanhixua.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140601_155058_zpspanhixua.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140704_185336_zpscnddmeew.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140704_185336_zpscnddmeew.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20140704_185347_zpsstao1sxi.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140704_185347_zpsstao1sxi.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/20150128_200150_zps7hycahvs.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150128_200150_zps7hycahvs.jpg.html)

[WSSix]

Very nice and subtle.

[bsharpe]

I have started to get some stuff done on the car again. I really want to get it done soon so I can enjoy it this summer. I probably wont do anything else to the body or paint until next winter. Im not going to setup the vintage air or a radio. I know the small things always take so long so I am probably being way to optimistic but I would like to take the car to Charlotte for the USCA event.

[WSSix]

Good luck! :thumbsup:

[bsharpe]

My plans changed shortly after my last post. Something else came up during the same week as the charlotte event so I decided to take my time finishing the build.

That turned out to be a good decisions because I ran into some unexpected issues and delays getting some parts. The picture below shows what I am doing now.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222327_zpsog4yftle.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222327_zpsog4yftle.jpg.html)
I removed the engine and am lowering and centering the engine mounts. I also cut out the shock mount and will be welding on a taller adjustable version. I surprisingly did not have clearance issues with my coilovers like others with Scotts subframe.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222302_zps3gv1il4s.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222302_zps3gv1il4s.jpg.html)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

did you try it with the spring?

[bsharpe]

did you try it with the spring?

I did but before I did the alignment. As you can in the picture above, I used my new quick trick gauge. It had around 0* camber and 4*caster. I had used washers to space out the control arms because the did not fit the subframe without them. I had to widen the control arm slots to get them to fit. I will try and align the car again today and get some pictures of the coilover clearance.

[bsharpe]

I was able to get 1* of camber after grinding the control arm mount but I only can get 4.5* of caster, which actually makes sense. Since I am using a small body mount at the rear of the subframe and a full size mount at the firewall my subframe is angled down. I did the math and it is around 3*. I now have to decide if I want to level out the subframe and lose ground clearance or adjust the control arm mounts to get the car aligned correctly.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175626_zpsnuybqqyd.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175626_zpsnuybqqyd.jpg.html)
I am disappointed after using the Quick trick alignment tool a couple of times. It does not seem to be very precise and it does not work well with the C5 Z06 wheels.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222302_zps3gv1il4s.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222302_zps3gv1il4s.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222228_zps7erkhqzv.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222228_zps7erkhqzv.jpg.html)
Most of the measurements come from a 90* bracket which is bolted to the tool. The bracket can twist and maybe bend. When I put the digital gauge on the bracket I get .4* camber but if I put vertical on the tool I get 89*. I will try and give them a call today.
To measure the caster you need to be able to turn the wheels 20* both directions. I don't have turn plates so I had to get creative. I clamped a scrap piece of angle iron to the top of the spindle. I then placed a piece of paper with several line at 20*. I turn the wheels until I am parallel with the reference lines. Unfortunately this will only work with the inner fenders off.



http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175618_zpsztxqindj.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175618_zpsztxqindj.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175652_zpsx9cwiiyf.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175652_zpsx9cwiiyf.jpg.html)


You can see I have plenty of clearance with the coilovers. I think I have shorter shocks compared to others which helps.

[grendel]

I was able to get 1* of camber after grinding the control arm mount but I only can get 4.5* of caster, which actually makes sense. Since I am using a small body mount at the rear of the subframe and a full size mount at the firewall my subframe is angled down. I did the math and it is around 3*. I now have to decide if I want to level out the subframe and lose ground clearance or adjust the control arm mounts to get the car aligned correctly.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175626_zpsnuybqqyd.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175626_zpsnuybqqyd.jpg.html)
I am disappointed after using the Quick trick alignment tool a couple of times. It does not seem to be very precise and it does not work well with the C5 Z06 wheels.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222302_zps3gv1il4s.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222302_zps3gv1il4s.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222228_zps7erkhqzv.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150713_222228_zps7erkhqzv.jpg.html)
Most of the measurements come from a 90* bracket which is bolted to the tool. The bracket can twist and maybe bend. When I put the digital gauge on the bracket I get .4* camber but if I put vertical on the tool I get 89*. I will try and give them a call today.
To measure the caster you need to be able to turn the wheels 20* both directions. I don't have turn plates so I had to get creative. I clamped a scrap piece of angle iron to the top of the spindle. I then placed a piece of paper with several line at 20*. I turn the wheels until I am parallel with the reference lines. Unfortunately this will only work with the inner fenders off.



http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175618_zpsztxqindj.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175618_zpsztxqindj.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175652_zpsx9cwiiyf.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150718_175652_zpsx9cwiiyf.jpg.html)


You can see I have plenty of clearance with the coilovers. I think I have shorter shocks compared to others which helps.

Yep, you have much shorter shocks.

[bsharpe]

I really want to get the subframe setup and DSE subframe connectors welded in so I can start to do the final assembly. I used a laser level to level out the car on jackstands and started to get some measurements. I have been reading Ron Sutton's suspension threads but I don't want to get carried away. I just want to make sure everything is straight and centered.

I used a plumb bob and marked every reference point I could find on the floor (outside flares, pinch weld, alignment holes, etc) I then measured from these points to mark the center point. I put a chalk line down the center. I should be able to use this to center and square up the front and rear suspension.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150720_225433_zpsjcehwifi.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150720_225433_zpsjcehwifi.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150720_225417_zpsu3mcdecs.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150720_225417_zpsu3mcdecs.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150720_225401_zpszeeffh1y.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150720_225401_zpszeeffh1y.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

I haven't made any progress since my last post. The car shifted slightly when I tried to adjust the subframe. The marks on the floor don't line up with the body anymore. I need to redo the process but I decided to take a break and enjoy the summer for a few weeks.

I did get 2 of these from Strange yesterday.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_225938_zpsdey30y7c.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150818_225938_zpsdey30y7c.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

Im on vacation this week which means I actually have some free time. Unfortunately, I am no where near the car but I will try and post some of my previous progress.

I have never liked how the rear bumper wraps around the qtr panels on the Firebirds so I trimmed mine.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141128_231825_zpsrdbzhyii.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141128_231825_zpsrdbzhyii.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141129_161613_zpsrtfdz3hc.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-11/20141129_161613_zpsrtfdz3hc.jpg.html)

Its sad to load and look at these pictures. The car looks almost done and they were taken almost a year ago.

[bsharpe]

I also modified a shallow g8 trans pan to work on the 6l90. http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150526_234836_zpsgsiijuzz.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150526_234836_zpsgsiijuzz.jpg.html)http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150526_234847_zpsmmw9jkp0.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150526_234847_zpsmmw9jkp0.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150527_230646_zpsdqxvyn8k.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150527_230646_zpsdqxvyn8k.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150527_230839_zpslefcxadw.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150527_230839_zpslefcxadw.jpg.html)
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150527_230903_zps1hykbaqi.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/20150527_230903_zps1hykbaqi.jpg.html)

[bsharpe]

I spent another day trying to square up the rear axle and the front subframe. The rear is in a good spot except the driver side qtr panel is 5/8" wider.

Sadly, I cant get the front subframe where it needs to be. The wheelbase is shorter on the driver side and my cross measurements from corner to corner are longer from front passenger to rear driver side. This tells me I need to move the passenger side back but it seems like I am maxed out.

Im also having trouble believing the measurements since the subframe looks to be angled to much already.

Something is wrong and I am having a lot of trouble pin pointing it. The subframe has its issues but i don't think its that far off. The body has been banged up but it is solid and seems straight.

It is difficult to get good measurements on the car when the tolerances were so bad originally. I have been going off the rear frame, the pinch weld(are they supposed to be parallel?) and the body.

[Build-It-Break-it]

Have you tried mounting your stock subframe ( if you still have it) and seeing what measurements you get from that one?

[bsharpe]

Unfortunately, I don't have the original subframe anymore. It was one of the only things I was able to sell.

I wish I measured everything before I removed all of the original suspension.

[preston]

forget about the body.

Setup reference points where the rear LCA's mount, build some bolt in brackets with measure points if you have to. Worry only about the front LCA mounting points measuring correctly to the rear LCA mounts, both straight line and x-measurements. Obviously get your mounting height where you want it on the subframe first.

Maybe I'm not understanding your issue but it sounds like you are trying to align the subframe both with the rear frame and the body. Neither of those matter, you need it straight with the rear suspension mounting points. If after you do that you find the wheels not centered side to side of front to back in the wheel openeings you may need to modify the body openings or something else. But dont' let the original frame or body affect how you measure and bolt up the suspension mounting points. Get that correct and then worry about how it fits the body later. Move the sheetmetal if you have ot.

[bsharpe]

I found the issue with the subframe allignment. The scott mock subframe is not square. Unfortunately that is not ab easy fix so the project has been put off fir the last month. I finally removed the subframe and called ron sutton to figure out the next steps.

I had actually measured the subframe when others started posting issues but I only checked to see if the bare frame was square. My problem is with the lower control arm mounts which surprises me sinse I looked through all of scotts pictures and saw that th lower control arms were jigged.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_193938_zpsispsl4fp.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_193938_zpsispsl4fp.jpg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_190138_zpsv9afqfhm.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_190138_zpsv9afqfhm.jpg.html)


Driver side

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_190245_zpspwft3rwo.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_190245_zpspwft3rwo.jpg.html)

Passenger side
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_190223_zps7a2utgzl.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20151010_190223_zps7a2utgzl.jpg.html)

[raustinss]

wow there is some fine craftmanship that id want my name attached to. way to go scott mock ....only a 1" plus out over 4.5 feet LMFAO

[Build-It-Break-it]

Looking at your first picture you posted it looks like the lower control arm mount to the right has the control arm mounting point crooked. It looks like it's at a slight slant going through the cross member which would explain why that control arm is lower where you measured. If you look at the picture you can even see that were he triangulated the control arms isn't equal on either side.


Is Ron Sutton able to help you fix the issue? Or do you have to scrap the frame? You could still use most of the parts and buy a bare Art Morrison subframe if funds allow?

[raustinss]

hopefully someone can fix that sub-frame with new MUCH stronger lower control arm mounts, they don't instill any confidence by there appearance . my thoughts are there could be some gusset's added,figure with the loads that they would be or could be seeing might cause some deflection

[bsharpe]

Looking at your first picture you posted it looks like the lower control arm mount to the right has the control arm mounting point crooked. It looks like it's at a slight slant going through the cross member which would explain why that control arm is lower where you measured. If you look at the picture you can even see that were he triangulated the control arms isn't equal on either side.


Is Ron Sutton able to help you fix the issue? Or do you have to scrap the frame? You could still use most of the parts and buy a bare Art Morrison subframe if funds allow?

hopefully someone can fix that sub-frame with new MUCH stronger lower control arm mounts, they don't instill any confidence by there appearance . my thoughts are there could be some gusset's added,figure with the loads that they would be or could be seeing might cause some deflection


I talked to Ron and feel very confident that he can help me optimize the C6 suspension for my car. Unfortunately he is booked up for the next 3 months which is longer than I can wait.

I am going to modify the subframe to make everything symetrical and stronger. As you noticed, the driver side lower control arm is angled. I will take a lot more measurements to verify everything but i hope the rear driver side lower control arm mount is the main problem. I am also going to relocate the swaybar, it isnt perfectly square and i dont like how the arms align with the lower control mounts. I plan to move it forward an inch on both sides.

Here are the pictures i found of Scotts Jig. The front of the lower control arms jigged but the rear tube is not.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/IMG_128891137912837_zpssob16ixz.jpeg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/IMG_128891137912837_zpssob16ixz.jpeg.html)

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah257/bsharpe4/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/IMG_127317329731593_zpsbefo68tv.jpeg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/bsharpe4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/IMG_127317329731593_zpsbefo68tv.jpeg.html)

[preston]

Hard to believe but its not unheard of for these subframes to be "out" I guess.

See post #2 where they talk about the front subframe. It looks like the same design used by a major manufacturer.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48983

[Build-It-Break-it]

2 minutes into the video below he talks about the subframe

https://youtu.be/q6xU4je_XaE
https://youtu.be/q6xU4je_XaE

[bsharpe]

Hard to believe but its not unheard of for these subframes to be "out" I guess.

See post #2 where they talk about the front subframe. It looks like the same design used by a major manufacturer.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48983

I wish I had found that thread months ago(He doesnt identify the subframe so i couldnt search for it). They had the exact same problems as me. Not enough camber and non symmetrical lower control arm mounts. I could have saved hours of head scratching if i had known what to look for.

[preston]

I was assuming it was an AME based on the design,but now I see in your jig pictures that your guys' design is similar. The vorschlag car also had a 3 link subframe that looks exactly like and AME as well, so that's what I assumed, although frankly I have a very hard time believing AME would put out something with misaligned brackets. And its suspicious that it had the exact same problem as your sub frame too, at least it sounds like it.

I'm sure you could cut and repair yours if you were an experienced fabricator, but depending on what those things cost it might be best to just get another one. hard to say. Good luck.

[bsharpe]

I was assuming it was an AME based on the design,but now I see in your jig pictures that your guys' design is similar. The vorschlag car also had a 3 link subframe that looks exactly like and AME as well, so that's what I assumed, although frankly I have a very hard time believing AME would put out something with misaligned brackets. And its suspicious that it had the exact same problem as your sub frame too, at least it sounds like it.

I'm sure you could cut and repair yours if you were an experienced fabricator, but depending on what those things cost it might be best to just get another one. hard to say. Good luck.

It is definitely Scott's subframe. He has a different swaybar/ front crossmember design.

[Simmo]

Sorry to hear of your pain.....if its any consolation I suspect we are just the tip of the iceberg as far as Scott Mock's fabrication ability, or lack of, is concerned.

It's probably not what you want to hear but I think like myself, you'll be miles ahead by scrapping the subframe and using the C6 stuff with a frame from a reputable manufacturer, or selling the C6 stuff an going clean sheet. Its not worth your time, let alone the risk and liability of a having a failure. My frame was a absolute joke. The more I measured the more inconsistencies were uncovered, you'll fix one aspect and another will appear.

I must admit I did have a few doubts when initially considering Scott's designs, but the reputation he had on here at the time silenced those.....silly me. I was looking for a time efficient solution for weld in clip for an A Body frame, and he had one. You've got tons of good options for the F body - I'd be looking at those even if it means holding the project to get the funds together, you'll be much happier and confident in the end result.

All the best.

[rfurley]

Bsharpe, i sent you a PM. thanks.