TBM Brakes: Frequently Asked Questions

[TBM Brakes]

In this thread, we'll share some of our most frequently asked questions and open the floor up to discussion.

If you have questions of your own, feel free to ask!!

Check back for more FAQs in the days to come!

1.WHY DON’T YOU MAKE A 6 PISTON CALIPER?

Contrary to popular belief, the number of pistons has nothing to do with the performance of the caliper. The most often cited reason for companies that do make 6 piston calipers is that they have more clamping force which, for a given caliper size is patently false. Another reason given is to “equalize” the force on the back of the pad to stop taper, which is also false, (more on that later).
The fact is that clamping force relates to two very important factors, caliper rigidity and piston surface area. The real truth about surface area is that in a given amount of space on one side of an opposed piston caliper, 2 pistons will always have more surface area than 3 smaller ones. One further claim by advocates of 6 piston calipers is that “it enhances the proper location of force on the pad”, which is also immaterial to the results of torque output.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/MtnGoatMedia/test4_zpsea17e24a.jpg

[TBM Brakes]

Number 2 in our Frequently Asked Questions Series;

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE “REVOLUTION ROTOR”?

Rotor choice is based upon two important factors in calculating requirements for a given application. First, the diameter of the rotor determines the “effective radius”, which is an important dimension in calculating brake torque output. There are several choices when determining the component requirements for any application, such as piston size and quantity, line pressure, effective radius, size of wheel and tire, etc.

The math to reach a certain torque level can be achieved with a variety of combinations, but before we look at that, let’s look at the other important determination, that is heat dissipation. Heat dissipation is a factor of the number of stops and the frequency. For example, a drag car only makes one stop, whereas, for example, a formula car makes more stops, more frequently, for a longer period of time. Therefore, the rotor becomes a major factor to keep the temperature within the limitation of the brake pad maximum operating temperature. Unless you have super high requirements for heat dissipation, then large diameter, heavy vented rotors are not your best choice. SMALLER DIAMETER ROTORS ARE ALWAYS PREFERABLE AS THEY CONSTITUTE “ROTATING WEIGHT” WHICH IS THE MOST UNDESIRABLE WEIGHT ON A RACE CAR.

The “Revolution Rotors”, because of the proprietary way they are manufactured, have the capability to withstand incredible abuse without cracking, warping or failing. They will withstand far more thermal input without failure than many heavier rotors. Because of the far lighter weight, they offer a major improvement in acceleration and deceleration resulting in major lap time improvements. They are low cost, high value components, that when combined with an efficient “Zero Drag” caliper, such as ours, will improve your performance for far less expense than adding horsepower.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/MtnGoatMedia/tbm1192_zps7dfa2dae.jpg

[MillerBuilt]

Nice to see you guys on this site :thumbsup:

[TBM Brakes]

WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR NAME TO “TBM BRAKES”?
The Brake Man was originally started with the intent to provide high quality, long life components to the racing industry. To us, it is vitally important to improve lap times at a considerably smaller expense to dumping more money in the engine. In the beginning, the development was started in a 2000 square foot garage. The grassroots motorsports people who were our original customer base, quickly grew to become a much larger audience across all forms of vehicles. As we have grown, it has become apparent that our company was far better served with a name that reflected our “core business” and reflected our commitment to the automotive performance industry.
As our “ZERO DRAG” calipers have gained market share, the name needed to capture the true quality of the product being sold. Our original Icon, “Billy Joe Brakepuck”, departed as we widened our appeal to all racing groups and organizations.
We are known for top rate quality products and the best service after sale in the industry so we hope our customers and potential customers find the name change to their liking.

[pist0lpete]

I have a question. I see the cloverleaf and other shaped rotors all the time on streetbikes and go karts. I have always wondered what the momentary loss of contact between the pad and rotor does to pad wear?

[TBM Brakes]

I have a question. I see the cloverleaf and other shaped rotors all the time on streetbikes and go karts. I have always wondered what the momentary loss of contact between the pad and rotor does to pad wear?

great questions!

We find our pads last much longer than our competitors, but it has more to do with the rigidity of the caliper and the zero drag. That's the key to the whole thing. No more tapered pads, no more dragging calipers, etc causes our pads to last much longer. Every situation is different, but in many cases racers are seeing our pads last 3 to 4 times longer than the their previous setups.

[TBM Brakes]

Number 4:
WHY DO MY PADS WEAR TAPERED?
Virtually every brake company in the industry has a significant problem with tapered pad wear. Regardless of whether they stagger the piston sizes or not, the taper is significant. The actual cause is caliper flex. As caliper flex increases, the more the taper.

TBM Brakes, because of the caliper rigidity, reduce the flex so effectively, that it will only be seen under the most adverse conditions, and even then, far less than any of our competitors. The reason is that we have simply produced such a rigid unit that the minimal flex even at extreme line pressures results in very little spreading thereby reducing the pad taper.

The significance of the strength of the caliper results in 3-4 times pad life in our caliper as the “Zero Drag” effect, combined with the caliper rigidity effectively increases the pad life by eliminating cocking and reduced pad temperatures. THE SINGLE BIGGEST CAUSE OF A “MID CORNER PUSH” IN A RACE CAR IS BRAKE DRAG. Virtually every caliper on the market creates wheel drag to some extent and significant drag when they super heat on the race track. If you don’t believe it, try to spin your wheel immediately on entering the pits. Can you afford that horsepower loss at the rear wheels?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/MtnGoatMedia/GenRight/KoH%20Prep/10264060_10152616207409635_8246615689510018150_o_z pse2986b05.jpg

[camcojb]

Good info. :thumbsup:

[dontlifttoshift]

Do TBM calipers require a residual valve?

[TBM Brakes]

Do TBM calipers require a residual valve?

Great question!

We recommend 2lb residual valves front and rear regardless of master cylinder height. While TBM Calipers will operate fine without them, it does create a slightly “deeper” pedal do to the zero drag design. The 2lb. residual valves cure that issue.

[DBasher]

I also had wondered why the wave rotors hadn't been common in the street/track car world. I've seen them on drag, motorcycles and even rock buggies for a few years now.

Great information, please continue!

[TBM Brakes]

Number 5 in our Frequently Asked Questions Series:

WHY DON’T YOU RECOMMEND SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?

Seal compatibility is critical to caliper performance. Very simply put, silicone brake fluid has a very undesirable effect on ethylene propylene rubber found in most brake systems. This tendency to swell the seals, combined with the fact that silicone is compressible when heated or in high altitudes creates unwanted changes to the pedal travel. Seal swelling can also cause brake lockup when used hard. Either of these changes in travel can be so extreme as to cause complete pedal loss or the vehicle dragging to a stop. Therefore, we highly suggest our DOT 5.1 Xtreme 6 fluid, or a comparable DOT 3 or 4 compatible fluid.

[TBM Brakes]

Number 6 in the FAQ Series:
WHY SHOULD I PAY MORE FOR YOUR CALIPERS THAN OTHER BRANDS?

The true cost of a product is not what it costs to buy it. The true cost is what it costs to “use it”. In the case of a brake caliper, this is measured by the capability factor, combined with the costs of the consumables factor.

The capability factor is a measurement of the life and resultant benefits. For example, our “Zero Drag” caliper so effectively reduces drag that far more horsepower is transmitted through the driveline. To replace that horsepower by making the engine more efficient would cost approximately 10 times as much. In addition, the biggest single cause of a “mid corner push” is caused by that brake drag. This affects the steering control and consequently, lap times negatively. In other words, steering control is enhanced, usable horsepower is enhanced, as is the overall driving control.

The consumables factor is the second point to consider. Due to the fact again, of the “Zero Drag”, our calipers eliminate maintenance and brake pad wear by as much as 70 percent. This means that for every 3 sets of pads you now wear out, our calipers wear out 1 set. Just consider the cost of those pads and the resultant overall cost of your system as a result. Just remember, we have not even assigned a value for the cost of your, or someone’s labor to replace them.

A high quality brake system will always benefit you in the long run!

Do you guys have any brake questions? We'd be happy to answer them! Just post up!!

[TBM Brakes]

WHY ARE SOME COMPANIES RECOMMENDING TWO CALIPERS PER WHEEL?

Clamping force is a function of line pressure times piston surface area on one side of the rotor. All calipers have a maximum pressure rating and every company but ours recognizes 1200 psi (pounds per square inch), as being their rating. However, TBM Brakes calipers are rated at 1500 psi.

When you combine this with the loss of clamping force that most calipers see because of deflection, (clam shelling open), they can’t develop sufficient clamping force to get the job done.

If they must recommend two calipers per wheel, they are adding to the unsprung weight, covering up the ability of the rotor to effectively dissipate heat and still creating excessive drag not seen with ours.

You should also note that if they are selling you twice as many calipers that don’t do the job, then why not buy one that will? It won’t cost you any more.

[TBM Brakes]

Number 8 in our FAQ Series:

WHY DO YOU RECOMMEND PLUMBING IN -3 HARD LINE VS. BRAIDED?

A master cylinder has very limited resources for volume of fluid for supplying the system. When you plumb a car in braided line, the line can “flex” under pressure, growing in size. This increases the volume of fluid in the line and decreases the amount reaching the caliper. This creates a longer than necessary stroke. As the brake line grows, it slows the response time of the caliper to react with the rotor. A vehicle traveling at 65 miles per hour is traveling at about 100 feet per second. This obviously can easily contribute to an accident you could have easily avoided.

The line size is also critical. -3 line size is the most practical for virtually every application. The reason is simple. Line size critically influences speed of delivery of volume. Even though slight, in a closed system, -2 line restricts flow much like a freeway going from 4 lanes to 2 would slow traffic. -4 line increases the flexibility of the braided portion of the line which can cause a spongy, low pedal. Remember, it is little items like this that can make a major difference in the overall “feel” and response of your pedal.

[TBM Brakes]

Number 9 in our FAQ series:

WHY DO YOU RECOMMEND SMALLER ROTORS THAN YOUR COMPETITORS?

The function of the rotor is twofold. First, it provides a lever to magnify torque output of the caliper. Second, it provides a “heat sink”, to remove the heat generated during braking. Since our caliper provides greater clamping force, then the need for a large diameter rotor is not necessary.

Rotating weight is the most undesirable weight in a car. One pound of rotating weight is the equivalent of 10 pounds of sprung weight to the “feel” of the car. By installing larger than necessary rotors you will slow the acceleration and deceleration of the vehicle. If you want it because it looks cool, then do it. Just know that the car will not perform as well with it.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e226/MtnGoatMedia/test3_zpsd92b35bf.jpg

[TBM Brakes]

Any questions or comments?

[Sonar Chief]

Great info here ... emailed you some questions!

[TBM Brakes]

Great info here ... emailed you some questions!

No PM received?? :headspin:

[Sonar Chief]

OK mulligan ... just sent PM.

Thanks,

Michael

[TBM Brakes]

OK mulligan ... just sent PM.

Thanks,

Michael

It's all good. PM returned. :thumbsup: