2nd gen front suspension upgrade

[markss28]

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade the front suspension on my 73 camaro. Right now it has poly bushings all over, and hotchkis springs. The rear has hotchkis leafs.

Car is street driven once a week as hard as I can without getting into trouble. It will not see an autocross as I'm in south tx and there's nothing here but a drag strip which I will take it to every few months but I want the car built more for handling than drag. Currently runs on 19x8s 245/35/19 and 19x10 295/30/19.

Budget is $1200-$1500. Eventually would like to widen the front wheel to 9".

All opinions and thoughts would be appreciated.

[glassman]

I'd recommend Keith at Custom works http://www.customworksperformance.net

He did my front end and has many options, to very affordable and well set-up to wild. He's a 2nd gen guru....

[WSSix]

Get the front end braced, change out to tubular upper control arms that alter the geometry, and make sure your brakes are up the challenge of stopping the car. You should be able to work with your springs. You may need to get proper shocks if you didn't match those to the springs. So far, I'd say you're on the right path. You just need to keep going.

[Rod P]

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade the front suspension on my 73 camaro. Right now it has poly bushings all over, and hotchkis springs. The rear has hotchkis leafs.

Car is street driven once a week as hard as I can without getting into trouble. It will not see an autocross as I'm in south tx and there's nothing here but a drag strip which I will take it to every few months but I want the car built more for handling than drag. Currently runs on 19x8s 245/35/19 and 19x10 295/30/19.

Budget is $1200-$1500. Eventually would like to widen the front wheel to 9".

All opinions and thoughts would be appreciated.

The Hotchkis springs and Leafs are very good to use as a base, I would add a tubular control arm set, a good front sway bar, adjustable shocks, subframe connectors, and front chassis stiffening bars

here's why
1)the tubular arms increase the suspension rigidity and most have an increase in caster to help handling
2)a big front sway bar helps control body roll , safer on the freeway and increases handling
3) adjustable shocks allow you to soften them for drag race, set to medium settings for daily use, and when the Goodguys show comes to town turn to stiff and try autocross
4) subframe connector reduce body flex and forces the suspension to do its full job..even your drag racing runs will be quicker and more constant
5) front chassis stiffening bars do the same as the subframes, forcing the front frame to become more ridged and helps turn in

[badazz81z28]

Mark,


If youre interested, I'm going to be picking my 78 Camaro apart here Mid December. It has a complete Hotchkis Suspension and has about a couple thousand miles on it.

Hotchkis Upper and lower control arms, Hotchkis tuned Bilstein shocks.

I also have the Hotchkis Sway bars.

Like to set you up if youre interested. I can work with your budget.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b151/badazz81z28/121LE.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

bam, way to go right there.

Im with Rod here, pop in down bars and i'll add solid sub frame bushings. Keith at Customworks can set you up. Next is the steering box and frame stiff bar.

Nail the backspace and you'll get those wheels in there.

[markss28]

Ok so I checked out custom works stuff and looks pretty solid. What's you alls take on protouring f body (PTFB)?

I'll probably get some control arms first and then work my way into some better shocks and springs.

[Rod P]

What's you alls take on protouring f body (PTFB)?



better question is "whats your take on them"?? I just ask because with all the reputable brands here Hotchkis, Detroit Speed, Speed Tech, Global West, BMR, you pick those control arms


then work my way into some better shocks and springs.

if your staying with springs, and you have Hotchkis, there the best springs around

[markss28]

better question is "whats your take on them"?? I just ask because with all the reputable brands here Hotchkis, Detroit Speed, Speed Tech, Global West, BMR, you pick those control arms



if your staying with springs, and you have Hotchkis, there the best springs around

(DSE) $1400 for control arms so my budget is pretty shot there. (BMR) I was told I may want to wait until they revise the arms as there was not much change from stock other than being lighter and tubular. (Hotchkis) real nice but pretty expensive as well. (Speedtech and GW) is more what I'm leaning to and the price is right but I like knowing all I can before I just whip out the card.


I guess I was hoping to upgrade to coilovers since that seems to be becoming the standard plus able to adjust height and ride by just turning a wrench or adjusting a knob is appealing as well.

This is all learning for me as I have no experience with any of these parts. I asked about PTFB primarily due to price. But once again I have no experience with them.

[badazz81z28]

(DSE) $1400 for control arms so my budget is pretty shot there. (BMR) I was told I may want to wait until they revise the arms as there was not much change from stock other than being lighter and tubular. (Hotchkis) real nice but pretty expensive as well. (Speedtech and GW) is more what I'm leaning to and the price is right but I like knowing all I can before I just whip out the card.


I guess I was hoping to upgrade to coilovers since that seems to be becoming the standard plus able to adjust height and ride by just turning a wrench or adjusting a knob is appealing as well.

This is all learning for me as I have no experience with any of these parts. I asked about PTFB primarily due to price. But once again I have no experience with them.


Umm...Did you see my post? Hotchkis Arms are not out of your league


I have personal experience with PTFB. Don't waste your money. There was a time when I had their control arms and steering kit. The quality and the durability is not there when you compare them to the bigger names. I sold off all that junk and bought Hotchkis not that much later. I use to have side by side pictures of their arms compared to the Hotchkis. The Hotchkis tubing is larger, the bushing areas are larger, the welds are better and importantly, the ball joints didn't strip under torque. :confused59:

There is a reason why DSE, Hotchkis, Speedtech, Global West are big names who are used by a lot of folks and proven on the track.

PTFB is nothing more than budget parts. You can't compare those to arms that are 100% tig welded, Chromoly Billet cross shafts, quality ball joints, and Delrin bushings.

[badazz81z28]

BTW...someone will chime in here and say PTFB is the greatest thing since slice bread. FWIW, if all you have ever had was Shasta, you will never know how good Coke is. :EmoteClueless:

I admit, I was the same way. Quality parts cost quality cash

[markss28]

Umm...Did you see my post? Hotchkis Arms are not out of your league


I have personal experience with PTFB. Don't waste your money. There was a time when I had their control arms and steering kit. The quality and the durability is not there when you compare them to the bigger names. I sold off all that junk and bought Hotchkis not that much later. I use to have side by side pictures of their arms compared to the Hotchkis. The Hotchkis tubing is larger, the bushing areas are larger, the welds are better and importantly, the ball joints didn't strip under torque. :confused59:

There is a reason why DSE, Hotchkis, Speedtech, Global West are big names who are used by a lot of folks and proven on the track.

PTFB is nothing more than budget parts. You can't compare those to arms that are 100% tig welded, Chromoly Billet cross shafts, quality ball joints, and Delrin bushings.

Just saw your previous post about your suspension. Thank you so much for your thoughts on PTFB. I like to know as much as I can before I pull the trigger on any investment. I'll send you a PM with my number and hopefully this weekend we can talk about your suspension.

[Rod P]

I guess I was hoping to upgrade to coilovers since that seems to be becoming the standard plus able to adjust height and ride by just turning a wrench or adjusting a knob is appealing as well.

This is all learning for me as I have no experience with any of these parts. I asked about PTFB primarily due to price. But once again I have no experience with them.

I would stay with the springs there isn't an advantage to having a coil over ONLY on the front....the main advantage is you can change spring rates but that doesn't matter because you cant change the back springs and therefore the car would be unbalanced,,,,you Idealy want coilovers on all four corners and that will require you to get rid of the leafs, and now the budget has tripled

dont shop price to upgrade, shop design and performance advantage


I like to know as much as I can before I pull the trigger on any investment.

I under stand this...but the reason to upgrade is performance and handling...better bushings, ball joints, caster gains, quality materials if you cant get these answers from those selling you arms...then you don't want there arms, you already have arms with no performance gain

[markss28]

Great point Rod.

I dont want to just buy replacement just trying to find best bang for buck. How about ridetech control arms for 2nd gen? If I stay with my springs I will just upgrade my shocks. May also leave a little for sway bar. Thoughts?

[WSSix]

It's hard to beat a good spring/shock combination when you're just a street car. The only reason I went with coil overs is because I wanted the adjustability I did not need it though. I envision that I'll be making a lot of changes to my car through its life. I figured I'd do the coil overs and be done. You won't be making a mistake going with coil overs but if your budget is tight, stay with a good spring/ shock combo.

You can read through my build thread for more info on the car, what I've done, and why I've done the changes. I feel we are on similar paths. Buy quality parts the first time so that you don't have to spend more money and time replacing crap parts.

You can go with factory WS6 sway bars or aftermarket. These cars need bracing which is why I also said that originally.

[markss28]

WSSIX, you have a nice ride and I went through it pretty quick. I was thinking about the viking coilovers as well bc there are a few companies selling them on the cheap today.

I may just Ridetech control arms and coilovers as MCB is having a great deal on them.

Eventually Id like to do the 4link but Im about 3 months from that decision.

How do you like the 650lb spring rate? Seems a little high but once again I have no experience with this so just curious.

[Rod P]

I may just Ridetech control arms and coilovers as MCB is having a great deal on them.

Eventually Id like to do the 4link but Im about 3 months from that decision.

How do you like the 650lb spring rate? Seems a little high but once again I have no experience with this so just curious.

with the ridetech setup I would order a 700 lb spring and the single adjust shock it will work great with the leaf rear

[WSSix]

Keep in mind I'm running an aluminum headed LT1 with a T56 so I'm much lighter than my original 403/auto combination. I also have 225lb mono leaf rear springs. So far the spring rate is fine. I've only street driven the car and am still getting the shocks dialed in but it's not jarring, bottoming out, or rubbing the fenders. We'll see how it goes when I start pushing it though. Swapping coil springs is easy so if I have to change then no big deal.

[markss28]

Well I pulled the trigger and ordered from MCB Ridetech control arms and coilovers. They had such great prices and Kim was so helpful I couldnt pass it up. Cant wait for them to come in.

MCB for the win!

[Rod P]

Well I pulled the trigger and ordered from MCB Ridetech control arms and coilovers. They had such great prices and Kim was so helpful I couldnt pass it up. Cant wait for them to come in.

MCB for the win!

what spring did you order?

[markss28]

what spring did you order?

I have no clue. MCB said that Ridetech decides that based off my specs. I'll be calling them on Monday to verify before they ship. From what I've researched it seems that 550-650 is a good rate. I know u said 700 so maybe they will recommend that. I just need to make sure it will be a good balance for when I order the rear 4 link. Should have that ordered by March.

[Rod P]

I have no clue. MCB said that Ridetech decides that based off my specs. I'll be calling them on Monday to verify before they ship. From what I've researched it seems that 550-650 is a good rate. I know u said 700 so maybe they will recommend that. I just need to make sure it will be a good balance for when I order the rear 4 link. Should have that ordered by March.


ummm OK...you do know I work for RideTech..:headscratch:..

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx162/crazyshopmonkey/2014%20events/sema%202014/63954_10152471213165233_286242430317494320_n_zps54 ccbdd2.jpg

[markss28]

ummm OK...you do know I work for RideTech..:headscratch:..

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx162/crazyshopmonkey/2014%20events/sema%202014/63954_10152471213165233_286242430317494320_n_zps54 ccbdd2.jpg

Yea I kinda thought u did.

Still they didn't recommend anything when I ordered. I'll call on Monday to make sure tho. I know u stated 700lb on a leaf spring car but what rate for a 2nd with coilovers on all 4? I'll be changing over to the 4 link in a few months.

[Rod P]

700 front, and when you go 4-link I would do 225 rear .......ride quality comes from the shock settings...I suggest the 700lb springs because it will require less preload on the spring, therefore less coil bind, more travel, better handling

[WSSix]

[thread jack on]

That's a great action picture of you and the car, Rod.

[/thread jack not on]

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Yea I kinda thought u did.

Still they didn't recommend anything when I ordered. I'll call on Monday to make sure tho. I know u stated 700lb on a leaf spring car but what rate for a 2nd with coilovers on all 4? I'll be changing over to the 4 link in a few months. what are your current vehicle weights?

700 front, and when you go 4-link I would do 225 rear .......ride quality comes from the shock settings...I suggest the 700lb springs because it will require less preload on the spring, therefore less coil bind, more travel, better handling. All will be calculated with vehicle weight. A 3000 lbs car will take less than a 4000 lbs car. It's all a package. As you know. Then there is chassis stiffness and sway bars.

[thread jack on]

That's a great action picture of you and the car, Rod.

[/thread jack off]. Haa Haa trey, you said... Never mind.

[bobbya312]

[QUOTE=badazz81z28;583218]Mark,
If youre interested, I'm going to be picking my 78 Camaro apart here Mid December. It has a complete Hotchkis Suspension and has about a couple thousand miles on it. Hotchkis Upper and lower control arms, Hotchkis tuned Bilstein shocks.I also have the Hotchkis Sway bars.

If OP doesn't buy, I am a serious buyer- I left you a P.M. with an e-mail address

[WSSix]

damn! I'm a dumbass. :innocent:

[badazz81z28]

[QUOTE=badazz81z28;583218]Mark,
If youre interested, I'm going to be picking my 78 Camaro apart here Mid December. It has a complete Hotchkis Suspension and has about a couple thousand miles on it. Hotchkis Upper and lower control arms, Hotchkis tuned Bilstein shocks.I also have the Hotchkis Sway bars.

If OP doesn't buy, I am a serious buyer- I left you a P.M. with an e-mail address

Looks like the OP hit the button for strong arms. I sent you a pm

[bobbya312]

badazz- didn't get a PM or an e-mail. I'm interested in the control arms and sway bars.