help with stainless lines

[66fury]

i want to do some stainless lines and would like some info on tubing type,best suppliers,bending tools and flaring tools that members are using.i know its probably been discussed many times but cannot find all the info i need. thank you

[snappytravis]

Pure choice motorsports is where I order my stainless line from. Very knowledgable guys. I also ordered a hydraulic flaring tool. It is the only way to go. Go to harbor freight and buy the little blue tubing bender. It's the best cheap tool ever.

http://www.powertoolsonline.net/ProductImages/102400/DSD102432.jpg

[bentfab]

i want to do some stainless lines and would like some info on tubing type,best suppliers,bending tools and flaring tools that members are using.i know its probably been discussed many times but cannot find all the info i need. thank you

Give me a buzz. 818-701-6147. I can help you out and put you down the right path.

Mark

[bentfab]

Pure choice motorsports is where I order my stainless line from. Very knowledgable guys. I also ordered a hydraulic flaring tool. It is the only way to go. Go to harbor freight and buy the little blue tubing bender. It's the best cheap tool ever.

http://www.powertoolsonline.net/ProductImages/102400/DSD102432.jpg

The problem with that tool is it dosnt allow you to get a tight 90 at the end of a bend because the dies are to long. Buy the time you put a nut and sleeve or flare nut on the end of the tube. There will be at least 1" or more of tubing from the start of the bend to the flare seat.

I use Pure choice a lot. They have quite a few cool products.

Mark

[snappytravis]

The problem with that tool is it dosnt allow you to get a tight 90 at the end of a bend because the dies are to long. Buy the time you put a nut and sleeve or flare nut on the end of the tube. There will be at least 1" or more of tubing from the start of the bend to the flare seat.

I use Pure choice a lot. They have quite a few cool products.

Mark

Makes sense, I ran everything seemed fine, How would a guy do it so you don't have that problem? I am a rookie,,, lol

[ModernMuseum]

If you're a rookie (like me), you should consider doing everything in with carbon steel tubing first for practice. You can get CS tubing very cheap at your local auto parts store.

You don't need a hydraulic flaring tool. Just get the Eastwood one from Amazon - you have to put some extra elbow grease on SS flares (make sure you double flare everything!) versus carbon steel since the material is a lot less malleable. They have videos for this tool online.

http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Double-Single-Tubing-Flaring/dp/B002QBRHD4/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1413432020&sr=1-5&keywords=brake+flaring+tool

I ran all the brake lines for my 69 firebird (you can see some photos in my build thread) and it worked out great. I can't stress enough to form everything in CS first. Also, on the bender - just get a cheap-medium priced one from amazon or your local parts store - try to learn what the marks on the side of the bender mean. Use the throwaway CS to experiment. This will save you time in the long run.

As far as pricing goes, I think the best pricing you will find will be Jegs or Summit. Buy it in rolled spools, not sticks - it's cheaper that way.

[Ricochet]

If you're a rookie (like me), you should consider doing everything in with carbon steel tubing first for practice. You can get CS tubing very cheap at your local auto parts store.

You don't need a hydraulic flaring tool. Just get the Eastwood one from Amazon - you have to put some extra elbow grease on SS flares (make sure you double flare everything!) versus carbon steel since the material is a lot less malleable. They have videos for this tool online.

http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Double-Single-Tubing-Flaring/dp/B002QBRHD4/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1413432020&sr=1-5&keywords=brake+flaring+tool

I ran all the brake lines for my 69 firebird (you can see some photos in my build thread) and it worked out great. I can't stress enough to form everything in CS first. Also, on the bender - just get a cheap-medium priced one from amazon or your local parts store - try to learn what the marks on the side of the bender mean. Use the throwaway CS to experiment. This will save you time in the long run.

As far as pricing goes, I think the best pricing you will find will be Jegs or Summit. Buy it in rolled spools, not sticks - it's cheaper that way.

Good idea on using cheap line to practice on before embarking on stainless. It is my understanding that you only double flare when you are using 45* flares. If you are using 37* flares with AN fittings only single flares are used.

[bentfab]

Makes sense, I ran everything seemed fine, How would a guy do it so you don't have that problem? I am a rookie,,, lol

It's been working for me for over 20 years. I do have a industrial style flare machine. But every once in a while I revert to a hand held flare tool. I use a imperial flare tool. It will allow the home builder the tightest 90 possible at the end of a tube. The picture below is everything a do-it-yourselfer needs to single or double flare tubing.

If you're a rookie (like me), you should consider doing everything in with carbon steel tubing first for practice. You can get CS tubing very cheap at your local auto parts store.

You don't need a hydraulic flaring tool. Just get the Eastwood one from Amazon - you have to put some extra elbow grease on SS flares (make sure you double flare everything!) versus carbon steel since the material is a lot less malleable. They have videos for this tool online.

http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Double-Single-Tubing-Flaring/dp/B002QBRHD4/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1413432020&sr=1-5&keywords=brake+flaring+tool

I ran all the brake lines for my 69 firebird (you can see some photos in my build thread) and it worked out great. I can't stress enough to form everything in CS first. Also, on the bender - just get a cheap-medium priced one from amazon or your local parts store - try to learn what the marks on the side of the bender mean. Use the throwaway CS to experiment. This will save you time in the long run.

As far as pricing goes, I think the best pricing you will find will be Jegs or Summit. Buy it in rolled spools, not sticks - it's cheaper that way.

Good examples Modern Museum! I tell people to practice all the time with the bundy tube first. Then duplicate your patterns into the stainless. Make sure the bender you use is designated to the tube size your bending.

Not true about double flaring everything.... Usally the S.S. in the aftermarket that comes in the spools is either a thinner wall tube or lower quality material and extra soft. Which is probably why you can double flare it ? I personally WILL NOT SACRIFICE A LIFE FOR A CHEAPER PEACE OF BRAKE LINE TUBING.

Good quality tubing you will only need to single flare. Just like it's always stated in ALL of these topics on flaring. "You need to crank hard to flare S.S. tube (not true)" Well if that's the case why double flare it ?

Yes the pricing isn't cheap for the good stuff, but what isn't ... And what's this all worth in the long hall in a car you just put your blood, sweat, tears, and MONEY into ? I think it adds an extra sense of security, resale sell value, and knowing it's your BRAKE SYSTEM and not an overflow tube.

Modern Museum I want to make sure that I'm not coming down on you in any way. Just trying to give some light on my experences over the last 20 + years of doing this stuff... You bring up a lot of valid points that are always the topic of plumbing.



Good idea on using cheap line to practice on before embarking on stainless. It is my understanding that you only double flare when you are using 45* flares. If you are using 37* flares with AN fittings only single flares are used.

I've been mixing the two ever sense I started plumbing. A lot of times especially in brake systems the two mix between SAE and AN. It's a matter of knowing when and how to make it work.

Not true about the flares... Think about it.... A flare is a flare(double single). It can be 10* 25* anything. As long as the two matting surfaces (male-female) are of the same angle you will have a perfect seal(which never happens) :idea: Also typicaly double flares are used on the softer mild steel tube to help strengthen the tube because it's to thin or soft to start with. So by folding over it self your thickening the tube. Where as S.S. tube is a harder metal (typicaly a thicker wall too) there's only need to single flare. If you tried to double flare S.S. at least the stuff I use and sell it will split.

Remember AN came from the military to speed up the process and the diversity on the vehicles. They were also using it on hydralics which is a really thick wall tube that only requires a single flare.

My best theory is over the years and the transitioning from the military into the automotive world with the mix of SAE 45* and AN 37* this will always be a mis-understood topic that gets way over anilized.


Mark

[Ricochet]

I've been mixing the two ever sense I started plumbing. A lot of times especially in brake systems the two mix between SAE and AN. It's a matter of knowing when and how to make it work.

Not true about the flares... Think about it.... A flare is a flare(double single). It can be 10* 25* anything. As long as the two matting surfaces (male-female) are of the same angle you will have a perfect seal(which never happens) :idea: Also typicaly double flares are used on the softer mild steel tube to help strengthen the tube because it's to thin or soft to start with. So by folding over it self your thickening the tube. Where as S.S. tube is a harder metal (typicaly a thicker wall too) there's only need to single flare. If you tried to double flare S.S. at least the stuff I use and sell it will split.

Remember AN came from the military to speed up the process and the diversity on the vehicles. They were also using it on hydralics which is a really thick wall tube that only requires a single flare.

My best theory is over the years and the transitioning from the military into the automotive world with the mix of SAE 45* and AN 37* this will always be a mis-understood topic that gets way over anilized.


Mark

Thanks for the clarification Mark. I didn't explain it very well. I should have addressed the difference between the tubing and fittings. But understand it exactly the way you laid it out.

[66fury]

Great info guys. What is the prefered tubing wall thickness ?? What i want to do is run 1/2 " fuel supply and return lines under car and some 3/8 lines under hood.i know the 1/2 " is gonna be tough. I got alum now but know i would be better off with s.s.

[ModernMuseum]

Modern Museum I want to make sure that I'm not coming down on you in any way. Just trying to give some light on my experences over the last 20 + years of doing this stuff... You bring up a lot of valid points that are always the topic of plumbing.



Hey, no worries man. I'm not an expert by any means; only a novice at best.

Definitely some good nuggets of info in your post.

[70 chevelle]

It's been working for me for over 20 years. I do have a industrial style flare machine. But every once in a while I revert to a hand held flare tool. I use a imperial flare tool. It will allow the home builder the tightest 90 possible at the end of a tube. The picture below is everything a do-it-yourselfer needs to single or double flare tubing.



Good examples Modern Museum! I tell people to practice all the time with the bundy tube first. Then duplicate your patterns into the stainless. Make sure the bender you use is designated to the tube size your bending.

Not true about double flaring everything.... Usally the S.S. in the aftermarket that comes in the spools is either a thinner wall tube or lower quality material and extra soft. Which is probably why you can double flare it ? I personally WILL NOT SACRIFICE A LIFE FOR A CHEAPER PEACE OF BRAKE LINE TUBING.

Good quality tubing you will only need to single flare. Just like it's always stated in ALL of these topics on flaring. "You need to crank hard to flare S.S. tube (not true)" Well if that's the case why double flare it ?

Yes the pricing isn't cheap for the good stuff, but what isn't ... And what's this all worth in the long hall in a car you just put your blood, sweat, tears, and MONEY into ? I think it adds an extra sense of security, resale sell value, and knowing it's your BRAKE SYSTEM and not an overflow tube.

Modern Museum I want to make sure that I'm not coming down on you in any way. Just trying to give some light on my experences over the last 20 + years of doing this stuff... You bring up a lot of valid points that are always the topic of plumbing.





I've been mixing the two ever sense I started plumbing. A lot of times especially in brake systems the two mix between SAE and AN. It's a matter of knowing when and how to make it work.

Not true about the flares... Think about it.... A flare is a flare(double single). It can be 10* 25* anything. As long as the two matting surfaces (male-female) are of the same angle you will have a perfect seal(which never happens) :idea: Also typicaly double flares are used on the softer mild steel tube to help strengthen the tube because it's to thin or soft to start with. So by folding over it self your thickening the tube. Where as S.S. tube is a harder metal (typicaly a thicker wall too) there's only need to single flare. If you tried to double flare S.S. at least the stuff I use and sell it will split.

Remember AN came from the military to speed up the process and the diversity on the vehicles. They were also using it on hydralics which is a really thick wall tube that only requires a single flare.

My best theory is over the years and the transitioning from the military into the automotive world with the mix of SAE 45* and AN 37* this will always be a mis-understood topic that gets way over anilized.


Mark

Do you sell those reamers ? If not what brand are they? Just so I understand correctly , you single flare 45 degree when using stainless line?

[bentfab]

Do you sell those reamers ? If not what brand are they? Just so I understand correctly , you single flare 45 degree when using stainless line?

I don't sell the reamers... but I should. You can get them at Lowes or Home depot. Think the ones I use are Stanley brand.

The S.S. that I use and sell is Aircraft quality .035 wall anneled. And yes single flare it... No matter what degree it is 45* or 37*.

Mark

[frankv11]

More from a first timer
These are the tools that worked for me
Rigid benders work great
Rigid 458r 45 degree flaring its best they also offer it in 37dgs
Imperial 37 worked for me but if I had to buy all over again I would do rigid any day
Transparent angle finder will come in handy
Copper ground wire , for practice and templates it's pretty close to 3/16 I believe is #6 wire.
Can't say enough about how consistent and quick the rigid flaring tool is and it allows tighter turns , cause clamping thickness is a bit less than imperial.
Very helpful site to learn about tube benders
http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/ms-13-43.pdf

And if you can make or find a way to mount your vise vertically that by it self will make you a better tube bender as your able to step away a get good look at the bending angle. Mine it's adjustable on both planes , built out of an old china drill press. That swagelok site is a must Hope this helps.


http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1_zps0305f5e0.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1_zps0305f5e0.jpg.html)
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/Mobile%20Uploads/photo3_zps2b560187.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo3_zps2b560187.jpg.html)

[BuddyP]

Ran stainless on mine. What a pain and hard to seal (but was my first time also). However if I were to do it again I'd probably do regular brake line, much easier to work with (and with function in mind, not looks)