ABOUT AIR RIDE....Is it just me or...

[Leadfoot1]

....there was a time not long ago when it was starting to get accepted and even started to get used quite a bit on projects as it was finally proven it can perform as well as c/o's, offer a super nice ride AND offers suspension adjustability at your fingertips?

Only now, if im not mistaken, i dont see air ride beeing talked about much? Even the main company that offers them has (seems) started to push its c/o's more than its air line of products?

Im starting to look at the possibilities to put under my newly decided to jump into project and always liked the air ride set ups versatility and altough i have not had the chance to ride an air ride car, many close friends have and all agree on how smooth it is. So, thinking of running either 18/19 or 19/20 wheels on my car has me thinking air couls smooth the ride out for my old a$$ but then...

I realized the subject line.

What do you think? Am i right? Or have i missed on some projects going with air shocks lately?

'Listening...

Lead.

[Ketzer]

It's not just you. Same thoughts.
I have a Nova that is more resto-mod but I've made it handle better with newer suspension and coil-overs. I also have a 54 wagon that I am building that's on Shockwaves/bags. I want the Nova to ride kinda stiff and track flat with very little body roll. I want the wagon to be more of a cruiser and ride nice and soft but not handle like a 70s Buick.



Interested also in hearing everyone's thoughts.

[mitch_04]

I think part of it could have been heavy advertising to "let it be known" about air bags. Now that it's "known" they don't push it as much.

Just a thought...

[Vegas69]

Events like the Optima Challenge have changed the landscape where guys are going for every last fraction of an inch in performance. Which you achieve with coil overs.

Air ride is a fine choice for most around here. Me, I'd rather not have the extra sources for failure. Give me a shock and a spring. Not a racing shock on a pro touring car, either.

[Code510]

Me, I'd rather not have the extra sources for failure.

Just remember that all the big rigs on the road are all on air ride.

I've been on air ride for 11 years now and haven't had a problem. I wouldn't ever go back to any sort of coil system either. I love that I can have this car ride like a Caddy, but then perform like a road race car with the push of a button.

I think it just takes a little more thought up front than slapping in a coil over or anything like that.

And completely throwing performance aside...nothing looks as bad ass as a car sitting on the ground. :)

[Vegas69]

When I see it in Nascar, you'll have me sold. :unibrow:

[ccracin]

When I see it in Nascar, you'll have me sold. :unibrow:

If that's the criteria, why is everyone spending so much money on coil overs? :poke:

[bret]

When I see it in Nascar, you'll have me sold. :unibrow:

Believe me, if it was legal they'd be using it...or some sort of adjustable suspension.

If you perceive that you've not heard as much about air suspension as you used to, please blame me solely.

It is a typical business practice to offer the most promotional effort to your newest products. We launched the coil over line in 2010 and have proceeded to promote that new product line heavily. Since there are only so many promotional dollars to go around, the money we spend on promoting coil overs cannot be spent on air suspension products (or any other product).

If you have ever seen our 66 Chevelle, it is still on ShockWaves. So is Smittys C10 that has been very successful in the Goodguys and Optima series. So is my 69 Mustang. And many other vehicles that may not create the headlines.

I think because I chose to promote our new coil over line via the last two major projects (48 Hour Camaro and my 33Ford) that we've somehow abandoned the air suspension market. In reality, as wildly successful as our coil over line has become, our air suspension sales are still the large majority of our sales..And continue to grow.

Another cool thing about our ShockWaves is that the air spring and the coil over are completely interchangeable. This means that if you start out with coilovers, you can upgrade to ShockWaves just by removing the coil and replacing with the airspring. We've work quite hard over the last 3-4 years making all this stuff compatible.

Look for some headline making cars and trucks on air suspension next year...and beyond. Air suspension is still an unfair advantage :)

[130fe]

I have had the ridetech air suspension on my car and now have their coil overs. I drove the air stuff for about 3 years and I liked it a lot. I am in the finishing stages of major changes to my car and the conversion to the coil suspension was one of them (easy especially since I already had the front and rear brackets in place). I just wanted to simplify things overall.

In my opinion there might be 3 things that sway people towards the coil over system- price, simpler components and space.

Price- comparing a level 2 system, a complete coil system is $4100 and the similar air system is $6250 (ridetech website prices).

Simpler components- the air system has more moving parts including the air lines, the sensor wiring, air compressors and the air tank. The coil over system just has the coil and spring.

Space- having a first gen camaro, trunk space is tight to begin with. If you have ever done a long trip like a power tour (I have done 3), you find out that when you starting putting things in it, it fills up pretty quick. I had the air system with 2 compressors and a 5 gallon tank. I could have gotten by with the smaller tank but I got a good deal on the one I had. i had it configured similar to the air pod and it took up a good portion of the forward space of the trunk. The coil system doesn't take and trunk space.

The air system drove great! I don't have any feedback on the coil over other than a couple of drives around the block. I am a big fan of Ridetech and their products and they put out an excellent product. Either way, I don't think you will go wrong.

[HEEP]

I have the Shockwave system for the Chevelle of mine. It was bought back in 2009/10 and Ridetech was very helpful in upgrading my rear setup to a Shockwave setup instead of the regular air bag in the spring location on it.

I have also ridden in the in the Ridetch 66' and Rod's Camaro. I really could not tell the difference in how the cars handled. Am I sold on the air system? Well, not really. As stated by others, when you look at the cost of the air system to make it all work, it really is overwelming. Will I pay it? Of course, because that is what it will take. It will just take me a little longer to save any buy. I hope that by the time it get to that point, we will not be hovering above the rode. HAHA

Bret's got an awesome product. that can not disputed in my book. He also shows how to build and drive the crap out of them. I also like how he supports this board and the guys on it.

I'll just keep saving and buying. Just my thoughts. :G-Dub:

[Leadfoot1]

Believe me, if it was legal they'd be using it...or some sort of adjustable suspension.

If you perceive that you've not heard as much about air suspension as you used to, please blame me solely.

It is a typical business practice to offer the most promotional effort to your newest products. We launched the coil over line in 2010 and have proceeded to promote that new product line heavily. Since there are only so many promotional dollars to go around, the money we spend on promoting coil overs cannot be spent on air suspension products (or any other product).

If you have ever seen our 66 Chevelle, it is still on ShockWaves. So is Smittys C10 that has been very successful in the Goodguys and Optima series. So is my 69 Mustang. And many other vehicles that may not create the headlines.

I think because I chose to promote our new coil over line via the last two major projects (48 Hour Camaro and my 33Ford) that we've somehow abandoned the air suspension market. In reality, as wildly successful as our coil over line has become, our air suspension sales are still the large majority of our sales..And continue to grow.

Another cool thing about our ShockWaves is that the air spring and the coil over are completely interchangeable. This means that if you start out with coilovers, you can upgrade to ShockWaves just by removing the coil and replacing with the airspring. We've work quite hard over the last 3-4 years making all this stuff compatible.

Look for some headline making cars and trucks on air suspension next year...and beyond. Air suspension is still an unfair advantage :)


Bret, thanks for chiming in.

I am starting on a new (really, it is like new lol!!) '69 Camaro w/only 48k miles, its mint! Not a beast by any means... Yet! As its an all orig car that i have had a hard time coming to decide to modify its so nice and original. (It was /is 100% matching and was never tempered with) but yes, i did decide recently that it was "MY"car and it deserved the best i could offer it.... Er, I mean, offer myself!!!!

I had bought an Air Bar back in 2005, (long time ago, i know, but when i received the parts, i had put everything on my bran new, nice wood kitchen table to take pics for everyone on here to see and you had made comments about it and we talked about my wife better not be knowing about it lol!! Anyway, it was funny.... long time ago already lol!!) and i did put it on my super project back then and had finally ended up turning around and making a "fastest street car" style car out of the project and had ended up selling everything i had purchased to Pro Tour it (lots of hi po parts, especially back then) and my Air Bar was part of the lot (altough it was the last thing i sold).

I now feel like i always wanted to try an air ride system and that now the time has come. That's what got me looking at the latest projects on here hoping to see what was going on with the crowd and thats when i noticed there was a lot less talking about Air Ride then i remembered...

My car is a gold on black '69 Camaro w/black vinyl top and i just decided to run black 2013 style ZR-1 wheels (kinda like on 'Jackass' / Charley 's car, but black, to complement my vinyl top and hockey stripe!) and the idea to be able to lay the car over those monster wheels and tires is just soooo sweet in my mind!!!

Hey, you know, having revived Air Ride, if your looking for a new face to showcase your stuff.... I would gladly wave the flag!!! :poke:

Again, thanks for coming in to tell us about it,

Mario/ Lead.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/Leadfoot1969/image_zpsbc40d587.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/Leadfoot1969/media/image_zpsbc40d587.jpg.html)

[Vegas69]

I'm curious in regards to what is the most high performance application for bags to date? Competition wise?

Surprised the magazines haven't had a shoot out. Brett, have you every outfitted two similar cars for data?

[Richio1]

I'm a fan of air and it works for me. I wanted the adjustability, plus, IMHO, I think my car looks sick laid out. Again, just my opinion but at every show I go to I am talking with guys all day long that just love it. Oh, there are the haters and I love hearing their comments too but its my car set up my way.

Same goes for you Lead, do it your way and you will be happy.

Coincidentally, I was at a show in Sonoma Ca, this weekend and a couple guys come up to me who grew up with Reno and his brother, the guys who started AccuAir, and are still good friends. I didnt know they grew up there. They had some great stories and we talked a lot about where the technology is going. I cant wait to see where it will be in 5 years.

This video just came out last week. Pretty cool to see how a couple engineering students from Cal Poly came up with this while in college. Great st

9aRdACuAzKI

[Rod P]

I'm curious in regards to what is the most high performance application for bags to date? Competition wise?

Surprised the magazines haven't had a shoot out. Brett, have you every outfitted two similar cars for data?

many land speed cars have used air suspension for years

[GregWeld]

It's a great question Lead --- and one that, like many other choices we have to make, all "depends".

I'm not going to run a "street shock" on my track car... that would be the wrong application.


If you want to be able to dump a car in the weeds... you MUST go with air.


I'm running RideTech Shocks / Coilovers on my '33 Ford... there is no room for an air system and you'd see the bags etc on a Hiboy... If it had fenders that would be different.


My son's Audi S4 is on an Accuair system... and it gets tracked. (He owns www.enlaes.com - that makes carbon fiber parts). He loves it and the car is just laid out at shows etc.


My Semi/3 car stacker all ride on air... It rides and handles great and is auto leveling to compensate for load... and I can dump the air in the trailer to lower it for loading and unloading. To the poster that said it's a "problem" - that's BS... almost every semi in America is on bags... and they run millions of miles.


My point in all the above -- is -- it all depends on the application and what you ultimately want your car to do. These modern systems DO handle and can and do get tracked... AND you can dump it in the weeds... and vary the ride height... So there's lots of pluses to offset the packaging etc.

[bret]

I'm curious in regards to what is the most high performance application for bags to date? Competition wise?

Surprised the magazines haven't had a shoot out. Brett, have you every outfitted two similar cars for data?

Top Speed:

Blowfish...69 Barracuda built by Troy Trepanier, owned and driven at well over 300 mph at Bonneville by George Poteet

Stupidbaker - 53 Studebaker built by Johnsons Hotrod Shop, Owned by Paul Gilliam...maiden voyage at Bonneville last year at over 228MPH

In our specific micro-market...

RideTech 69 Mustang - winner of several speed stops and autocross evetns over the past 10 years

Smitty's C10 truck - current star of the Optima Search for the Ultimate Street Car TV show - routinely outruns smaller and lighter cars with more tire under them.

RideTech 66 Chevelle - routinely outruns cars with significantly more tire and horsepower under them.


But the mostest, highest performance application...

an all wheel drive, all wheel steering, 4 wheel independant air suspension vehicle that is deployed by the Marine Corp in Afganistan and is hauled there in the V22 Osprey. This vehicle can run 45mph over a series of 30" undulations and will navigate a 60% grade while being shot at.


Why have the magazine not conducted a shootout? Ask them. We've been ready for 15 years.

Have we done a specific back to back test between air and coils? No. I have personally driven enough of these vehicles [at speed] to know that there is no discernable performance difference betwwen the two types of springs. I also know that the tuning can be a bit different between the two so a simple back to back test would not be all that relevant. In english this means that if I optimize a vehicle with airsprings, then swith it to coils, it will be slower until I optimize it for the coils. And vice-versa. I think this would hold true if you tried this test with torsion bars, leaf springs, or any other spring mediun as well.

If I were forced to make a decision for an all around car...one that needed to be as fast as possible AND be versatile enough to drive on a highway...I'd use air. If you make it easy and remove the need for ANY ride quality concerns then you could get by with coils [or any other non-adjustable spring].

If you can't tell...I absolutely ADORE the opportunity to expose the virtues of an airspring. They are NOT for everybody...only for those who want it all. :)

[214Chevy]

According to my shop guy who has been installing air ride on cars and trucks for years and is also an authorized Ride Tech dealer says that the people who don't like air ride, talk bad about it or hate it are the ones who had it installed incorrectly or was simply not done right at all. But, the one's who had it installed correctly by an authorized dealer or simply by someone who absolutely knew what they were doing, love the system. He further stated that incorrectly installed systems resulted in leaks, cracked lines, bad valves, etc. Correctly installed systems that were enjoyed due to no leaks, properly inflated bags that permit a good, quality riding vehicle, and quality parts used from reputable manufactures, etc.

[Vegas69]

Thanks for answering the questions Brett. I was curious. I know you've had more success with the 48 hour Camaro than you did Velocity. I'm assuming it's more of a package deal. (Engine, Tires, Experience, etc)

I think air ride is a great option for most on this site. The main reason for my question was that last 5 or 10 percent for the all out with the right driver.

[Smittys67]

Want to race? Just kidding. I have had many notable people in the truck who had now idea it was on air. Including real racers who were blown away by it when they found out.

[James OLC]

I know of one '69 Camaro that is currently under construction that will be running on Shockwaves. It will tend more towards Silver State type events but will hopefully be well rounded enough to make some waves...

:popcorn2:

[clill]

Bret, thanks for chiming in.

I am starting on a new (really, it is like new lol!!) '69 Camaro w/only 48k miles, its mint! Not a beast by any means... Yet! As its an all orig car that i have had a hard time coming to decide to modify its so nice and original. (It was /is 100% matching and was never tempered with) but yes, i did decide recently that it was "MY"car and it deserved the best i could offer it.... Er, I mean, offer myself!!!!

I had bought an Air Bar back in 2005, (long time ago, i know, but when i received the parts, i had put everything on my bran new, nice wood kitchen table to take pics for everyone on here to see and you had made comments about it and we talked about my wife better not be knowing about it lol!! Anyway, it was funny.... long time ago already lol!!) and i did put it on my super project back then and had finally ended up turning around and making a "fastest street car" style car out of the project and had ended up selling everything i had purchased to Pro Tour it (lots of hi po parts, especially back then) and my Air Bar was part of the lot (altough it was the last thing i sold).

I now feel like i always wanted to try an air ride system and that now the time has come. That's what got me looking at the latest projects on here hoping to see what was going on with the crowd and thats when i noticed there was a lot less talking about Air Ride then i remembered...

My car is a gold on black '69 Camaro w/black vinyl top and i just decided to run black 2013 style ZR-1 wheels (kinda like on 'Jackass' / Charley 's car, but black, to complement my vinyl top and hockey stripe!) and the idea to be able to lay the car over those monster wheels and tires is just soooo sweet in my mind!!!

Hey, you know, having revived Air Ride, if your looking for a new face to showcase your stuff.... I would gladly wave the flag!!! :poke:

Again, thanks for coming in to tell us about it,

Mario/ Lead.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/Leadfoot1969/image_zpsbc40d587.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/Leadfoot1969/media/image_zpsbc40d587.jpg.html)

How about you give me a bunch of money and that Camaro and I will just give you Jackass since I'm going to put it up for sale soon....:G-Dub:

[bret]

Thanks for answering the questions Brett. I was curious. I know you've had more success with the 48 hour Camaro than you did Velocity. I'm assuming it's more of a package deal. (Engine, Tires, Experience, etc)

I think air ride is a great option for most on this site. The main reason for my question was that last 5 or 10 percent for the all out with the right driver.

Your assumption is on the right track. Here are some more reasons...

Tru turn front suspension...better geometry and a 275 tire instead of a 245 tire.

Falken tires...huge improvement over the bfgs.

Biggest reason...Velocity was a 3000 hour build that was a bit precious as far as paint and bodywork...the kind of car you take home to meet mom.
The 48 Hr Camaro is the kind of car you take to the motel that rents by the hour.

[MaxHarvard]

...The 48 Hr Camaro is the kind of car you take to the motel that rents by the hour.

I like where this is going :unibrow:

[Stuart Adams]

I like where this is going :unibrow:

As long as your not in Frisco..

[LS7 Z/28]

How about you give me a bunch of money and that Camaro and I will just give you Jackass since I'm going to put it up for sale soon....:G-Dub:

Hahaha, do it.

I saw Jackass at Thomson Automotive a few months ago. Awesome car. I think he could buy a nice house for the amount of cash you are going to want though.

[Stuart Adams]

How about you give me a bunch of money and that Camaro and I will just give you Jackass since I'm going to put it up for sale soon....:G-Dub:

Sell it to Greg so his cool factor can go up!!

[wiedemab]

Sell it to Greg so his cool factor can go up!!

Jackass would certainly have a lower cost of maintenance than the last car he bought from Charley! :G-Dub:

[GregWeld]

Sell it to Greg so his cool factor can go up!!



It was a cool car when Stielow had it....