66' Road Race Mustang

[358Mustang]

Ok, I will start a little thread about my car. I am not great at taking good pictures or documenting things well, but I wouldn't mind creating a little discussion about the car and get some input.

Tires are going to be 315 in the front and a 315 or 335 in the rear and 18" wheels.

Don't mind all the ghetto mock up tools, I need to build a jig of some sort, but for now......

Here was my car before I did some weight savings. http://i61.tinypic.com/16bd5ro.jpg

Here is where I am now. I figure the motor is about 7" back from the stock location and 3-4" down. I may need to shorten the pan a bit for clearance, but I dont think so.

http://i61.tinypic.com/afdoa0.jpg

One main reason I wanted to move the engine back was now I will be able to get the rack where I think it needs to be.

http://i59.tinypic.com/auunp4.jpg

The plan is I will build a "K member" that cradles the rack, goes underneath the front of the pan (there is a 1.5" step in the pan). I want to mount my lower control arms off the member, somewhere around the front corner of the pan. This should get me a pretty nice long lower.

http://i61.tinypic.com/553v5c.jpg

I need to order ball joints weld in sleeves, then start mocking up some control arms.. What size tubing, I was thinking something like 1.125" x .083 chromoly? 5/8 x 1/2" rod ends.

Uppers I was going to make some deal that allows me to use some aluminum swedged stock for each end of it.

Shocks are Penske 8300

[358Mustang]

Oh, and I have this old f100 I started working on. Then I took the mustang out to sears point a few weeks ago... I had a blast as I always do, I've been around these old mustangs and going to the track my whole life... But I didn't like the state the car was in, so I decided... it is time to get this car moving how I have always wanted..

So I stuffed the truck against the wall and cut the mustang in half....

Maybe I am one of those "guys" that gets into a lot of projects, or just a dumb kid with too many ideas and not enough money :lol:

http://i57.tinypic.com/5l9vyd.jpg Thats as far as the truck made it.. haha

[Track Junky]

Newest member of the jack stand army? Good luck moving forward :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

The very first thing you need to build is a frame table. You've got to be able to locate things dead nuts on.... and plastic crates and stuff that moves around is just not going to be repeatable or accurate enough.

I'd just buy arms off one of the suppliers of good parts and adapt your mounts to them. Go over to BMR Racing in Roseville and see if they have some kind of take offs that they'd sell. I saw a wall there with 100's of LCA and UCA's.... They'd also have all the big ball joints and bearings etc.

Moving the motor back that much --- what did that do to your shift lever???

Hope you take forever -- so I can get more seat time so you don't make me look like a fool. LOL

[Ron in SoCal]

I remember the car from Sears point - removable FG door?

Looks like you were having a ball out there :thumbsup:

[DBasher]

Look at you Brian, getting after it!

I don't know anything but I agree with Greg, first thing should be at least a jig to hold the car and front end where it needs to be. No sense creating more work for yourself redoing parts because something moved.

Do a search and reach out to a couple folks here on the site.

Preston, pretty wicked mustang built in a carport with I think a home designed suspension.
Bryce, equally bad ass lil Falcon. Built in a home garage, engineering back ground and best of all, proven.

I posted up a cad image of Mike Maiers new front end, he's always available to talk to and is a suspension geek. I know you've heard this before but Ron Sutton seems to know what he's talking about, his site has a lot of great images to get ideas from and for a small fee he'd be your best bet.

I got to ask, what was done before that you didn't like? How far did you take the stock design before the sawzall came out?

Good luck and keep posting.

:thumbsup:
Dan

[DBasher]

Forget most of everything I just wrote....I just read some other threads and it sounds like you're on the right track.

Still recommend Bryce and Preston's threads.
Still want to know what you used to run with as far as front suspension.

Dan

[358Mustang]

Forget most of everything I just wrote....I just read some other threads and it sounds like you're on the right track.

Still recommend Bryce and Preston's threads.
Still want to know what you used to run with as far as front suspension.

Dan

I've seen Prestons thread on corner carvers a long time ago. Ill have to go back and check it out..

The jig thing, yeah I am working on that.

My old suspension was all "modified" stock components. I got rid of all the bushings, monoball lower control arm, heim joint strut rods, roller spring perches, dropped the upper control arm. "shelby" steering arms, I never moved the lower pickup point.

It worked decent at best, I dont feel that I ever had it dialed in very well though, the car always pushed and had no sharp turn response which I hated..

The last event I did was really bad because of everything I had to do the night before to get it there..

[358Mustang]

Newest member of the jack stand army? Good luck moving forward :thumbsup:

Yes most likely, jackstands, and milk crates. :lol:

The very first thing you need to build is a frame table. You've got to be able to locate things dead nuts on.... and plastic crates and stuff that moves around is just not going to be repeatable or accurate enough.

I'd just buy arms off one of the suppliers of good parts and adapt your mounts to them. Go over to BMR Racing in Roseville and see if they have some kind of take offs that they'd sell. I saw a wall there with 100's of LCA and UCA's.... They'd also have all the big ball joints and bearings etc.

Moving the motor back that much --- what did that do to your shift lever???

Hope you take forever -- so I can get more seat time so you don't make me look like a fool. LOL
I know i know, I was saying I need to get some sort of a jig built up. Most people do these things first, I get excited and do things out of order. The shifter should be ok, I will just have to make something, most likely straight up or something.. I used to run a remote shifter thingy that I made, but now I will be getting rid of that.. The seat was already moved back a decent bit, so I should be ok...

I remember the car from Sears point - removable FG door?

Looks like you were having a ball out there :thumbsup:

My car doesnt have a removable door I did see the car you were thinking of though. I forgot whos car that was.

[358Mustang]

I was always battling the setup on the car, since I just build things instead of buying things that are pre engineerined I usually spend the same or more money and about 50x the time.. But that is part of the fun for me..

I did a 3 link floater. I always felt that the rear needed a bit more roll stiffness (i kept adding spring rate) I was always up in the air about doing a rear sway bar, it kept getting better, the rear of the car always felt really solid and stuck like glue.

http://i61.tinypic.com/s66kaq.jpg

This car initially took me about 6 years or so to get on track. I started it when I was 17. Few people laughed at me when I said I was building a "race" car. I went through 3 rear suspensions before I even drove the car... I learned quite a bit in how to think a project through tho. Also, how to fabricate better and make things cleaner.. SO I hope this one doesnt take me forever!

[Flash68]

Love the car and the build.

I remember the car from Sears point - removable FG door?



Wrong car and wrong track name. Sonoma Raceway. Get it right out-of-towner. :lol:

[Flash68]

Oh, and on the Jongbloed wheel mock up thing.... I bet Ryan would let you take something if he has one there in the size you are thinking. He let me do it last year when my car was in Gilroy.

[358Mustang]

Love the car and the build.



Wrong car and wrong track name. Sonoma Raceway. Get it right out-of-towner. :lol:

Thanks man.
And I will always call that place sears point. Haha

[358Mustang]

Oh, and on the Jongbloed wheel mock up thing.... I bet Ryan would let you take something if he has one there in the size you are thinking. He let me do it last year when my car was in Gilroy.
I'll talk to him about that, what size and offset did you end up with? And what is your approx front track width?

[chetly]

Love the car and the build.



Wrong car and wrong track name. Sonoma Raceway. Get it right out-of-towner. :lol:


Yeah, Sonoma Raceway is for corporate weenies. That place will always be Sears Point. I have a hat from 83 to prove it!!!

I do love the idea of the car. It's going to be nice seeing another mustang out on the road.

[Flash68]

I'll talk to him about that, what size and offset did you end up with? And what is your approx front track width?

I am at 18x12 front w/ 7.5 BS and 18x13 rear w/ 8.5 BS.

Front TREAD width outside of tire to outside of tire is 75 or 75.5 if I recall.

Yeah, Sonoma Raceway is for corporate weenies. That place will always be Sears Point. I have a hat from 83 to prove it!!!



Um... did you mean Infineon is for corporate weenies? :headscratch:

Now, let's see that hat! :sieg:

[358Mustang]

I am at 18x12 front w/ 7.5 BS and 18x13 rear w/ 8.5 BS.

Front TREAD width outside of tire to outside of tire is 75 or 75.5 if I recall.



Um... did you mean Infineon is for corporate weenies? :headscratch:

Now, let's see that hat! :sieg:

Ok nice. Pretty deep BS, I was doing some rough numbers with the spindle/hub setup I was trying to use and I was coming up with about 9" BS if I wanted to target 0 scrub... That seemed pretty high, I am looking into other spindle/hub options currently. I don't think what I have is going to work out too well... Too much SAI and the hub offset is pretty big.

[chetly]

Maier has some aluminum spindles with steel shaft that uses big bearings. They might work for you...

[Flash68]

Ok nice. Pretty deep BS, I was doing some rough numbers with the spindle/hub setup I was trying to use and I was coming up with about 9" BS if I wanted to target 0 scrub... That seemed pretty high, I am looking into other spindle/hub options currently. I don't think what I have is going to work out too well... Too much SAI and the hub offset is pretty big.

Payton King has the same size wheels and long arm deal but a .25 inch more BS so he closer to zero scrub than I am but neither of us are at true zero. Still pretty low and wide though.

[358Mustang]

Payton King has the same size wheels and long arm deal but a .25 inch more BS so he closer to zero scrub than I am but neither of us are at true zero. Still pretty low and wide though.
I gotcha. Not sure how important it is, or if having an inch or so of scrub isn't particularly a bad thing then maybe I shouldn't sweat it. I just would rather try and do the figuring out now and optimize what I can (or at least what I think is right) rather than just compromise and call it good enough

[358Mustang]

SO now I am working on just making my own spindles. This seems like the best route for me, since I can dial in exactly what I want. I found some photos of some of the Trans am spindles, I plan on using a similar design. Mono ball upper/lower joints. Ive got speedway engineering 5x5 grand national hubs and coleman sells a weld on spindle pin that I am going to start building off..

Here is the spindle I was going to steal some ideas from and build it similar to this guy.


http://i58.tinypic.com/317fkg1.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/nq1y8.jpg

Id like to end up in the 6 degree KPI range and zero (or less than an inch) of scrub with an 18x11.

[358Mustang]

Made a little progress. Made a motor plate and got that tacked in. I needed to set the motor where I wanted it, next I plan on building the "sub frame" for the lower control arms. I think I am getting things figured out. I know I am 7" back from where my old motor was. And I had my old motor 2-3 inches back. So I'll call it 10" set back. Unsure on the height but the engine is very low in the chassis. I think I should be ok with pan clearance, but I have already explored some options of making a pan about 1-1.5" shorter if I need.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2zqu15e.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2nvx8gg.jpg

I'll have front and rear plates, as well as a tranny mount..

[dstryr]

You made the engine plate? LOL :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou: :thankyou:

[358Mustang]

If you closely interpret my posts. I said... "made a motor plate" :ohsnap: .That could mean I made it, some kid in china made it, or in this case you cut it for me. And did the high quality programming :action-smiley-027:

[DBasher]

Are the front rails in the factory location, width wise?

Motor plate looks good, interested in seeing this come together.

:thumbsup:
Dan

[GregWeld]

I don't care who made it - it looks good!



Why not have your "machinist" (LOL) make you some uprights out of billet material?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I don't care who made it - it looks good!



Why not have your "machinist" (LOL) make you some uprights out of billet material?

That would be a chunk and a half.

[Track Junky]

I agree with Greg. Looks great. Hope this project doesn't take you to long......looking forward to seeing you at the track next season.

[dstryr]

Brian


We should go halves on a flatbed trailer for when both our cars are done :)


*Cough* Vince *Cough*

[dstryr]

I agree with Greg. Looks great. Hope this project doesn't take you to long......looking forward to seeing you at the track next season.

Motor plate made by same clown that made your sway bar clamps........................

:weld: :weld:

[Flash68]

Nice lookin plate.

So you decided to go with front and rear motor plates huh?

[Track Junky]

Motor plate made by same clown that made your sway bar clamps........................

:weld: :weld:

:lol: :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

:peepwall: Brian


We should go halves on a flatbed trailer for when both our cars are done :)


*Cough* Vince *Cough*

[dstryr]

:peepwall:

Package will be there tomorrow........
:guns:

[LS7 Z/28]

This is a sweet project dude, I wish there were more current build threads like this in this section. Did you find a jig or build table yet?

[358Mustang]

I agree with Greg. Looks great. Hope this project doesn't take you to long......looking forward to seeing you at the track next season.

Thanks, I hope to get it done relatively soon. But we will see.....

Brian


We should go halves on a flatbed trailer for when both our cars are done :)


*Cough* Vince *Cough*

I've got an empty enclosed sitting in my driveway dude.. Hehe

Nice lookin plate.

So you decided to go with front and rear motor plates huh?
Thanks, and yeah I think so. I've heard of guys using a front plate and just a tranny mount. But that kind of scares me? I am doing some small two piece rear mounts. basically ears off the bellhousing to the chassis.

This is a sweet project dude, I wish there were more current build threads like this in this section. Did you find a jig or build table yet?

Thanks man. I may just do it old school and string line and plumb bob it.. I've got it leveled out right now. I may make a small fixture or something, haven't figured that out yet. I have suspension mocked up in cad, so in theory I should be able to make the arms and go from there.

[dstryr]

I've got an empty enclosed sitting in my driveway dude.. Hehe




Room for 2? :D

[Flash68]

Thanks, and yeah I think so. I've heard of guys using a front plate and just a tranny mount. But that kind of scares me? I am doing some small two piece rear mounts. basically ears off the bellhousing to the chassis.





I went through that same thought & research process and got enough feedback from way heavier hitters than myself that the mid plate was not necessary so I skipped that one. It certainly reduces some chassis flex there but is not in the least bit a necessity item.

I was also strongly advised to run a rubber trans mount with the motor plate instead of a solid trans mount. FYI

[358Mustang]

Room for 2? :D2 cars or 2 trailers?? I could fit another trailer here sure. I am out of room for vehicles LOL.

I went through that same thought & research process and got enough feedback from way heavier hitters than myself that the mid plate was not necessary so I skipped that one. It certainly reduces some chassis flex there but is not in the least bit a necessity item.

I was also strongly advised to run a rubber trans mount with the motor plate instead of a solid trans mount. FYI
I was talking to a buddy who put a D3 headed roush motor in a mustang and he said the same thing. I kind of scratched my head, I wouldnt feel comfortable with it really.. If I'd have done that I would have used .750 instead of .5" plate for the front. Hell the drag guys use .250!! But that is with a front and rear plate.... Mine is fairly light with all the pocketing.


Once I actually get the engine totally mounted and done I can post some more pictures of it..

I cut one side of the rear motor plate tonight, I need to finish the cad for the other one and do that (why couldnt ford make the bellhousing symetrical??)

I need to order some more tubing so I can build the subframe... I really need a 1.25" die :( anyone have a pro-tools 105 die I can borrow??

[Chassisworks]

This is a cool project! I wouldn't stress too much about getting a chassis fixture as long as your work surface is flat and level. We have sold thousands of chassis kits that were built in garages around the world. Just keep measuring three times and weld once.

Regarding the engine mounting, if you have a front plate you definitely need to run a mid plate. It's going to reduce binding, increase safety, and increase chassis rigidity. Also, you should run a torque limiter. This will keep you from cracking the tranny case, or the billet front plate.


You weld the stub coming off the rod-end to the frame rail then the other end bolts to the engine mount boss.
http://www.cachassisworks.com/images/Product/medium/6009.jpg (http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-245-motor-and-transmission-mounts.aspx)

[Track Junky]

I think the mid plate is a good choice on this one. From the looks of that motor I don't feel the 4 bolts alone on that front plate will hold over a long period of time.

[dstryr]

I think the mid plate is a good choice on this one. From the looks of that motor I don't feel the 4 bolts alone on that front plate will hold over a long period of time.

Plus he has access to all the machines and tooling he wants...just time ? :)
:walkingdog:

[358Mustang]

This is a cool project! I wouldn't stress too much about getting a chassis fixture as long as your work surface is flat and level. We have sold thousands of chassis kits that were built in garages around the world. Just keep measuring three times and weld once.

Regarding the engine mounting, if you have a front plate you definitely need to run a mid plate. It's going to reduce binding, increase safety, and increase chassis rigidity. Also, you should run a torque limiter. This will keep you from cracking the tranny case, or the billet front plate.


You weld the stub coming off the rod-end to the frame rail then the other end bolts to the engine mount boss.
http://www.cachassisworks.com/images/Product/medium/6009.jpg (http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-245-motor-and-transmission-mounts.aspx)
Thanks for the input! I didnt build a full mid plate, but I made some "wings" that bolt to the bell housing...

I think they will be more than suffiecent. They mount off two of the 7/16" bolts and I also made them so that they will take a .500 dowel pin and they will piggy back onto the bores that locate the bellhousing to the engine.



I think the mid plate is a good choice on this one. From the looks of that motor I don't feel the 4 bolts alone on that front plate will hold over a long period of time. My thoughts too.. I think what I've got should work pretty good now.

Plus he has access to all the machines and tooling he wants...just time ? :)
:walkingdog: I know... Too bad I have to keep production running so I dont have time to make things like I want. But that is what you are for.... :idea:

I have some spindle pins I need machined.....



More billet goodies. http://i61.tinypic.com/2hzgx82.jpg

I've got to yard the motor out so I can build the mounts off the frame for the "mid plate" . What a pain, my garage is stuffed full!!

[Flash68]

How's this one coming along? :hello:

[DBasher]

How's this one coming along? :hello:

What he said, I’d love to see some progress on this one.
:thumbsup:

[358Mustang]

Forgot about this place... Haha

Well I ended up building another car starting about 2018, the old track coupe is sitting in the corner of a shop collecting dust with the front end still cut off..

Finally got this engine together as of early 2020 and on the dyno, that was a big feat for me. Had a few issues , but nothing related to the engine .. Had a modified set of dyno headers that broke on multiple pulls so we had to pull those off and weld them up. The electric water pump wasnt sealing to the old yates belt drive so I had to rig up some spacers to sandwhich in place, and then the dry sump tank was puking a bunch of oil. Luckily I brought mine (which was a proper baffled tank) and that fixed the issue. The scavenge in the dyno tank has no sort of baffle or anything where it exits back into the tank so it must have just been making a tornado of oil going back into there with the 5 stage pump.. All in all that was a fun (stressful) day..

The aim with this car was to clean up a lot of fab work that I did on my last car (which started out as a project when I was 17 and no idea what I was doing, other than the fact that I had welders / plasma cutters near by :drowninga:) , as well as keep it "street" legal :confused18:

Rear end is a typical 3 link setup w/ panhard.

Front end I designed and built based off a cortex radial spindle.

Decided to go full standalone EFI sort of last minute, so I have been spending a lot of time (and cash :shakehead:) trying to get that wired up and going.. This car will be running by the end of the year!!

[358Mustang]

Sorry the pics are huge, Im a noob

[358Mustang]

Couple more. Decided to go DBW to compliment the ECU and its capabilities. using a unit from EFI hardware (uses a bosch DBW unit encased in a nice aluminum housing) The long term plan will be a 6 speed air shifted sequential but that is a little pricey so for now the 4 speed is going in. Plan on using a strain gage in the shifter for flat upshifts.

[Flash68]

Gitter dun! Thing is a bad ass!

[carbuff]

I like that DBW setup. Does the 'kit' you mentioned include a bracket or did you fab that yourself? Have you confirmed it runs through the full range of motion? Not that I've looked at many of those, but I like how this setup is done. Good job. :)

[358Mustang]

Gitter dun! Thing is a bad ass!
I'm trying !! Hoping to be running soon here ... But you know how it goes lol.. :headspin:

I like that DBW setup. Does the 'kit' you mentioned include a bracket or did you fab that yourself? Have you confirmed it runs through the full range of motion? Not that I've looked at many of those, but I like how this setup is done. Good job. :)

Thanks. It does not include a bracket or anything. I just made an ear weld off the intake , I needed to get it low as I could to clear my cowl air box. It's still close I need to space things a bit but it will work. Range of motion seems fine , I can actuate the unit manually and it seems good. Just need to set the min max's in the ecu once I get the electrical going. Curious to start playing around with different pedal maps too to make drivability nice

The real baller setup is the kinsler dbw motor , but I believe it's like 1800$ . This Bosch unit is very proven on OE cars so I don't believe I'll have an issue with it. Hell I think my 18' mustang has the same internals

[andrewb70]

I'm trying !! Hoping to be running soon here ... But you know how it goes lol.. :headspin:



Thanks. It does not include a bracket or anything. I just made an ear weld off the intake , I needed to get it low as I could to clear my cowl air box. It's still close I need to space things a bit but it will work. Range of motion seems fine , I can actuate the unit manually and it seems good. Just need to set the min max's in the ecu once I get the electrical going. Curious to start playing around with different pedal maps too to make drivability nice

The real baller setup is the kinsler dbw motor , but I believe it's like 1800$ . This Bosch unit is very proven on OE cars so I don't believe I'll have an issue with it. Hell I think my 18' mustang has the same internals

What EFI system are you using?

Andrew

[358Mustang]

What EFI system are you using?

Andrew

Using an Emtron KV8 ECU and Motec PDM / Dash