Smoke

[Ron in SoCal]

http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/police-investigating-sprint-car-incident-involving-three-time-nascar-champion-tony-stewart-081014

[Vince@Meanstreets]

"business as usual" ?? Wow, maybe I'm being overly sensitive because I haven't had breakfast yet but wow.

Sure it may have been an accident and I know drivers live to race but I think might have been a classier move for Stewart to willfully suspend racing for at least one race out of respect to the familly and person you may have accidentally killed.

Getting out of your car to confront another driver is stupid and has been going on for decades. I think NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies should impose fines or race suspensions to stop the practice. It was a matter of time before something like this was going to happen.

[fleetus macmullitz]

http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/police-investigating-sprint-car-incident-involving-three-time-nascar-champion-tony-stewart-081014

Ron,

That track is 1 hr from me.

My condolences to Kevin Ward, Jr.'s family and friends...

[Ron in SoCal]

qILmIyG6qno

[Ron in SoCal]

Vince I don't know how you race today after that.

Skip, agreed the bigger news is racing lost a driver. May he RIP.

[Rick D]

Saw this last night, just crazy! Guilty no! Stupid yes, on both sides! You never get out of your car and start walking to the 2000lb race car AT night bad things can and do happen.

I feel real bad for the family, the Kevin was only 20 years old way to young! I feel bad for Tony as well, do I think he meant to hit and kill Kevin no, do I think he tried to scare him by revving up his engine as he went past, most likely yes.

I can't imagine what either side feels like, I'm sure the family of Kevin is mad and wants someone to pay for this tragedy but it still doesn't bring back their son.

There is fault on both sides for sure! At least from the video I saw.

As for racing today not really sure how you do that??
Just so sad :shakehead: :shakehead: prayers sent to all involved!

[Ketzer]

I don't follow the sport or the drama between the drivers but find it hard to imagine a driver would purposefully "clip" another driver on foot, no matter what sort of rivalry. I saw the grainy dim video, it really looked like the first car passing him barely missed with a swerve and it appeared he stepped directly in front of Stewart's car pointing and shaking his hand...
As for Stewart continuing to race, it's big business and lots of people's money is involved. I'd say he had to make a few phone calls before he could take the day off.


Jeff-

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Condolences to the parties involved. What a mess.

Them back tires stick out pretty far. I hope it wasn't intensional but not much you can do when someone is running at you and as fast as the cars were travelling.

[chetly]

Just said on sportscenter that Regan Smith will drive today for Tony Stewart and that they are currently fitting him to the car.

I don't know what goes through the head of some people. People get emotional when they feel they get taken out unjustly. But, knowingly walking out in front of a moving vehicle traveling at 40-50 mph at night, on a poorly lit track, wearing black. We see it all the time at NASCAR Indy car and other forms of racing.

It was said by Ricky Craven this AM that racing organizations will probably react swiftly because of this tragic accident and restrict drivings from exiting their cars until safety workers are present unless on fire...

[Track Junky]

Sad.........True, Kevin should have never gotten out of his car but his emotions got the better of him.
Tony Stewart pretty much ended his career as a driver.

[Sieg]

Not good no matter what.

After watching the racing incident that sparked the situation it appeared to be just that a racing incident. Tony went under and in front of the other car and drifted up into it.....that happens and it's expected to happen IMO.

Whether Tony intentionally or accidentally contacted the driver is unknown at this point.

From my perspective the other driver committed a major safety violation and paid the ultimate price for it.......right or wrong. :shakehead:

[Ron in SoCal]

It was said by Ricky Craven this AM that racing organizations will probably react swiftly because of this tragic accident and restrict drivings from exiting their cars until safety workers are present unless on fire...

What's the first thing they tell you at track days: STAY IN YOUR CAR! When is it OK for pros to walk around on the track, during a caution or not?

[Ron in SoCal]

Sieg watching the vid, do you think Stewart could've taken a lower line on the track like the other drivers when Ward was walking toward him?

[chetly]

What's the first thing they tell you at track days: STAY IN YOUR CAR! When is it OK for pros to walk around on the track, during a caution or not?

I don't think it's ok at any point, but I also don't think there is a written rule forbidding it. After this accident, there might be...

[Sieg]

What's the first thing they tell you at track days: STAY IN YOUR CAR! When is it OK for pros to walk around on the track, during a caution or not?

Can't say without seeing in car camera. Apparently Stewarts car had a GoPro on it. If that's the case and it wasn't tampered with it should give a pretty good idea.

I pitted on a dirt track team for three years and there's no way in hell I'd get out of a car and do that. Adrenaline and tempers run high in that environment.

[chetly]

We may never see that footage.

[Richio1]

What a tragedy for both drivers. It seems both parties could be culpable in the incident. More will come out I'm sure.

I think the motor sports groups will act quickly and restrict drivers from exiting unless its a safety issues. I'm surprised this hasn't happened already.

I dont know how Steward could race today, accountable for the accident or not. If there was any intent that will be between him and God. He will have to this with this for the rest of his life, regardless.

I agree with a prior comment, that he should sit out just out of respect to the family plus he will have things to sort out of his own and if he isn't 100% focused he is a potential safety risk to the other drivers out there.

[chetly]

Uhhh, I already commented that he isn't racing today. Regan Smith will be driving.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Sieg watching the vid, do you think Stewart could've taken a lower line on the track like the other drivers when Ward was walking toward him?

not a chance, if you have ever raced dirt if you had to make a spit second decision it would have to be a few seconds before the car would react and it took a few seconds for Kevin to walk 5 feet. At the speed Steward was going he didn't have a chance to change directions. That might have been the reason for his throttle up.

All footage would be evidence at this point.

[mfain]

Looking at the video, it appears Tony was coming out of the turn and the 45 car would have blocked his view of Kevin until the last minute. They said on the news that he hit him with the right rear tire which sticks out quite a ways. Maybe Tony jumped on the gas to try to shoot past him when he finally saw him. I'm all for giving Tony the benefit of the doubt until we hear what he has to say. With regards to the on-board Go-Pro, what the camera sees may not necessarily be what the driver sees.

Pappy

[Sieg]

After taking a long walk with the dogs and thinking about this unfortunate event I've concluded there is one thing that's almost guaranteed........if the driver would have stayed in his car he would be alive today. :(

[Ron in SoCal]

Vin - I was asking not if he could've reacted once seeing Ward, but that there were other cars taking a low line around the track after the caution.

On that note, I'm no expert on these types of analysis and if there is any intent, the authorities will ultimately determine that - which they have not.

I am also remiss as the bigger conversation is a kid lost his life. :sad:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

ok I see, yeah, I bet if Tony went straight to the pits Kevin would have been right up there too...he was pissed.

Even during cautions drivers are still moving pretty good. He should not have been out of his car.

Sad.

[Ron Sutton]

One key point that needs to be made about driving dirt cars is they are hard, if not impossible to turn quick without blipping the throttle, when going slow. If a dirt driver needs to get their slow rolling car to change directions quickly, they have to blip the throttle & use some of the big stagger in the rear tires.

I looked over the video several times & it looked to be a no win situation no matter what. If Tony didn't blip the throttle to turn the car he was going to hit him with the front of the car ... and obviously when he did blip the throttle the back end of the car hit the driver on track.

I'm not blaming, nor defending, either person. This was a tragedy. An avoidable tragedy. It surely could have been avoided by the young man if he stayed in his car. But emotions get to you when you think you've been wronged. I'm not sure Tony saw him coming at him in enough time to react & avoid him. No camera can tell us that. Only Tony knows that. At fault or not, you know he is torn up dealing with this. It is very sad.

:shakehead:

[glassman]

Well said Ron. I kinda thought that too with the blipping of the throttle, combined with the variables of low lighting, black suit, traffic, watching your line, etc....Its an unfortunate event and my prayers go out to all parties involved.

[intocarss]

Found this

."Many of you will wake up to the incomprehensible news that Tony Stewart was responsible for the death of a fellow racer last night. It’s true. But you need to know the whole story – or at least as complete as it is at 5 a.m. ET, when I write this.

There is no denying that the death Saturday night of 20-year-old sprint car driver Kevin Ward, Jr., killed when he was struck by the right rear tire of a sprint car driven by NASCAR star Tony Stewart, is a tragedy almost beyond comprehension.

His team released a brief statement, but it is generic and probably vetted by lawyers: “A tragic accident took place last night during a sprint car race in which Tony Stewart was participating. Tony was unhurt, but a fellow competitor lost his life. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends. We’re still attempting to sort through all the details and we appreciate your understanding during this difficult time."

Making it so much worse is the excruciating contention, repeated literally hundreds of times last night on social media, that Stewart swerved into Ward intentionally.

According to a video of the incident, Stewart was inside the young Empire Super Sprint driver going into turn two of Canandaigua Speedway in upstate New York. Stewart drifted high, and Ward, running out of room, touched the outside wall, spinning completely one time, and coming to a stop pointing in the wrong direction, his right rear tire flat.

He climbed from his car, and began striding down the track, obviously looking for Stewart, whose car was approaching at a reduced speed under the caution flag, but still traveling at perhaps 40 mph. Ward was pointing a finger at Stewart’s car and moved toward it.

It appears Stewart saw him at the last second, and swerved, but still hit Ward hard enough to toss him like a rag doll at least 20 feet down the track. An autopsy is pending, but it seems likely Ward suffered a broken neck, though he still had his helmet and head restraint device on, but the device only works when you are strapped into your car. Stewart stopped about a hundred feet down the track. Emergency workers were there in second. Indeed, Stewart may have hit the gas, but you steer sprint cars with the throttle for more than the steering wheel. The idea that he accelerated trying to hit Ward is beyond the pale.

How could this happen?

I have driven winged sprint cars, and as you can imagine, visibility to the side is horrible. Ward was wearing a mostly black fire suit and a black helmet. The idea that any driver would purposely hit another over what was a comparatively minor, that’s-racing incident is hard to swallow. That Tony Stewart would do it on purpose? That is unthinkable.

There are so many sad coincidences here that the mind reels. This is the same track where, just over one year ago, Stewart sparked a 17-car collision that sent two drivers to the hospital, including a 19-year-old female racer.

And just a few days ago, it was the one-year anniversary of Stewart’s own crash in a 360-cubic-inch sprint car identical to the one he was driving Saturday night, breaking his leg so severely in two places that he had to miss the rest of the NASCAR Sprint Cup season.

Let me correct one thing I just said: The car Stewart was driving Saturday night was fitted with several safety features that Stewart helped develop, based on his crash and the death of three sprint car drivers last year, including NASCAR driver Jason Leffler. Those safety features included tethers similar to the ones used in IndyCar, and a re-enforced tunnel for the torque tube, which is essentially a driveshaft that runs between the driver’s legs. That tube rupturing is what injured Stewart. He told me earlier this year that if anything good came from his crash that -- like it did when the death of Dale Earnhardt occurred – safety innovations were developed that have likely saved other driver’s lives.

And a final irony is that Saturday night, 820 miles due west from Canandaigua, New York, the biggest sprint car race of the year was being held – the Knoxville Nationals, in Knoxville, Iowa, featuring all the World of Outlaws sprint car stars, and the top drivers from other series. The feature there was just about to get rolling when Stewart’s accident occurred. The winner of the Knoxville Nationals, for the eighth time – Donny Schatz, who drives for team owner Tony Stewart. In fact, Stewart was in Knoxville earlier this week, cheering on his team, which also includes soon-to-retire sprint car legend Steve Kinser."

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Who wrote that jerr? Schatz?

[Streetking]

It's just plain sad..RIP...

[intocarss]

Who wrote that jerr? Schatz? I don't know who or what Schatz is. I found it on motorsport.com. and on a couple of racing sites. Bad deal for all involved

[JB400]

I don't see it as intentional. If it was, Tony would have him with the front. I say, he just misjudged where his rear tire was. Happens all the time.

A sad ordeal all the way around.

[Vegas69]

I'll wait for the facts, and post judge. It's a shame for a kid to die so young. It's also a shame that in this day and age, his death is made a spectacle all over the internet.

[ironworks]

Well said Ron. I kinda thought that too with the blipping of the throttle, combined with the variables of low lighting, black suit, traffic, watching your line, etc....Its an unfortunate event and my prayers go out to all parties involved.

From a guy with limited dirt experience and lots of friends with lots of experience. Beyond the items list above you also have a big wing hanging down blocking Tonys view up track. You also have the car in front him blocking his view and you also have the fact the cars have not been collected under the yellow at this point. The caution should have come out when Ward went flipping but it still takes 3-4 laps to collect the field and have them slow down to yellow flag speeds. And every driver I spoke to today said to drive a sprint car you push on the gas when you turn the steering wheel. It becomes an instinct. And the throttle response on those engines is unreal.

Like it was said before he should have stayed in or at least near his car. Heck he could have been hit by some one just checking up for the yellow.

Super sad deal, but the judgement on this deal by the armchair racers is crazy.

[glassman]

From a guy with limited dirt experience and lots of friends with lots of experience. Beyond the items list above you also have a big wing hanging down blocking Tonys view up track. You also have the car in front him blocking his view and you also have the fact the cars have not been collected under the yellow at this point. The caution should have come out when Ward went flipping but it still takes 3-4 laps to collect the field and have them slow down to yellow flag speeds. And every driver I spoke to today said to drive a sprint car you push on the gas when you turn the steering wheel. It becomes an instinct. And the throttle response on those engines is unreal.

Like it was said before he should have stayed in or at least near his car. Heck he could have been hit by some one just checking up for the yellow.

Super sad deal, but the judgement on this deal by the armchair racers is crazy.

Roger, i never meant to pass judgement on anybody, sorry if i was missunderstood. I meant too say Tony probably didn't see him, at least i hope that is what truely happened.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I don't think Rodger meant any of us here. I think we all will not judge. We recognize the tragedy.

There is a lot of internet talk about him hitting him on purpose. Hell even witnesses in the video thought so.

[ironworks]

Roger, i never meant to pass judgement on anybody, sorry if i was missunderstood. I meant too say Tony probably didn't see him, at least i hope that is what truely happened.


This was the most logical discussion I have seen. My facebook page has gone crazy with even about ready to get a rope for Tony and everyone knowing how to drive a sprint car.

I'm not pointing any fingers just pointing out the obvious and agreeing with your list.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Like I mentioned, I'm about 1hr away from that track.

Tuned into the local talk radio station there and caught a sprint car driver explaining to the (thankfully level-headed) host, about how the handling/steering works on those cars.

They also discussed how it is strongly emphasized in drivers meetings to never get out of the car unless absolutely necessary.

It was helpful for open minded listeners I believe.

[DRJDVM's '69]

The kid almost got hit by another car right before Stewart hit him.

The bottom line is that the kid made a bad decision and it cost him his life...that's not Tony Stewarts fault. Our society has grown into a place that when something goes bad there always has to be someone to blame.. everyone but the person that made the choice they made. The rule to not get out of your car is there for a reason...he disregarded it and the choice cost him his life

Its a tragedy that such a young kid lost his life and I feel for his family, but that tragedy directly resulted from the choice he made, plain and simple

To suggest that he was hit on purpose is insane

[Ketzer]

The kid almost got hit by another car right before Stewart hit him.

The bottom line is that the kid made a bad decision and it cost him his life...that's not Tony Stewarts fault. Our society has grown into a place that when something goes bad there always has to be someone to blame.. everyone but the person that made the choice they made. The rule to not get out of your car is there for a reason...he disregarded it and the choice cost him his life

Its a tragedy that such a young kid lost his life and I feel for his family, but that tragedy directly resulted from the choice he made, plain and simple

To suggest that he was hit on purpose is insane

^^ This ^^


Jeff-

[Spiffav8]

The kid almost got hit by another car right before Stewart hit him.

The bottom line is that the kid made a bad decision and it cost him his life...that's not Tony Stewarts fault. Our society has grown into a place that when something goes bad there always has to be someone to blame.. everyone but the person that made the choice they made. The rule to not get out of your car is there for a reason...he disregarded it and the choice cost him his life

Its a tragedy that such a young kid lost his life and I feel for his family, but that tragedy directly resulted from the choice he made, plain and simple

To suggest that he was hit on purpose is insane

^^^the right point of view^^^

I don't follow that kind of racing at all. But while watching the video all I could think was the that the guy is a retard. The track isn't that wide or long and his car blocked about 1/3 of it. Then he gets out and walks onto the lower half of the track where everyone has to go to avoid his car. He didn't leave any room for anyone to avoid him and he's wearing black, at night, on a dimly lit track. That goes against everything you where taught as a kid.

Was this guy wanting to make a big deal and get attention because it was Stewart? Probably. Act all big and bad with the celeb for personal gain kinda thing.

A tragedy? No. A tragedy is when a civilian airliner catches fire, crashes in the ocean killing everyone and no one can find it. This is Darwinism and the only one to blame is the guy who decided to play in traffic.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Oh come on Curtis, you don't really believe that. The guy made a mistake.Yes, Did he deserve to die, no.
When you are out in the action nightly you tend to forget where you are and how dangerous it can be.

Tragedy cause someone lost a son over a hot temper and someone has to live with the fact that a young person died in front of them.

[ironworks]

The racers had not even been collected under caution yet. They are still zooming around to get back into line. And he runs down into the live track.

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

IMHO,they BOTH made mistakes and unfortunately for BOTH of them, the outcome was what it was. I'm sure Stewart didn't go out there to kill anyone and the kid certainly didn't go out there to get killed.

Think how many times we've all done stupid ****. How many times have we all wondered how we're actually still alive after what we did when we were younger?

I have yet to meet someone who is perfect enough to assign all the blame in fully one direction. (and I'm not holding my breath)

[Spiffav8]

Oh come on Curtis, you don't really believe that. The guy made a mistake.Yes, Did he deserve to die, no.
When you are out in the action nightly you tend to forget where you are and how dangerous it can be.

Tragedy cause someone lost a son over a hot temper and someone has to live with the fact that a young person died in front of them.

Deserve to die? Who are we to judge this mans actions and say that he deserved death for them? I don't think he did anything wrong as in breaking the law or intended on harming others. He made a mistake and it cost him.

I fully agree that when you are out in the action nightly you tend to forget how dangerous it can be. In a fast paced, dynamic environment things tend to slow down for us, after we spend to much time in them. We think we know what will happen next and can predict it all. We become complacent and that's when we start missing warning signs and things go wrong.

[raustinss]

IMHO,they BOTH made mistakes and unfortunately for BOTH of them, the outcome was what it was. I'm sure Stewart didn't go out there to kill anyone and the kid certainly didn't go out there to get killed.

Think how many times we've all done stupid ****. How many times have we all wondered how we're actually still alive after what we did when we were younger?

I have yet to meet someone who is perfect enough to assign all the blame in fully one direction. (and I'm not holding my breath)

I guess tony should have had headlights on and hell even night vision goggles...then he could have seen the kid in black at night on a track with poor lighting that he shouldn't have been walking on
Yeah sure they BOTH did something wrong...Cmon man :bang:

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

^^
Ah, someone who unequivocally knows all the facts. Please make some excuse to skip jury duty if you're ever called. Thanks.

Still not holding my breath.

[Al Moreno]

Wow, how sad. Having a 22, 21 and 18 year old boys it hurts my heart just thinking about this.

[Greg from Aus]

So sad, over a everyday racing incident makes it worse.

[raustinss]

^^
Ah, someone who unequivocally knows all the facts. Please make some excuse to skip jury duty if you're ever called. Thanks.

Still not holding my breath.

Relax man... How did tony make a mistake....this is your chance to correct me because clearly you don't like being wrong. The two people who know the facts are tony and Kevin and hes dead . What I have stated was things that many many other people have said. which are obvious facts. So please correct me

[Shmoov69]

Horrible, horrible deal. Any way you cut it, it sucks! Kid died for doing something stupid (like we all have done and didn't die...obviously!!).

What did Tony do? NOBODY here knows for sure. Maybe nothing at all, but until his in car camera footage shows that he didn't do anything, then it is all hopeful speculation. How many times have you seen a driver "swerve" at someone (usually in a car albeit) to "spook" them for being an idiot? A bunch. Did Tony do that? Dunno, and I'm not about to say that he did, however the video will show without a doubt any intent to avoid or to "spook" him. Either way, it went terribly wrong.

[GregWeld]

So sad, over a everyday racing incident makes it worse.



I'm with you on this one Greg... it's such a common "incident" in racing. A guy can only hope that it serves ONE good purpose... to perhaps serve as a reminder to the guys racing that maybe it's not a good idea to get out of the car on the track regardless of how mad you may be.

[Sieg]

I'm with you on this one Greg... it's such a common "incident" in racing. A guy can only hope that it serves ONE good purpose... to perhaps serve as a reminder to the guys racing that maybe it's not a good idea to get out of the car on the track regardless of how mad you may be.

Agreed.

I don't think many can relate to how a sprint car turns (doesn't turn) with it's spooled rear end and dramatic rear tire stagger.

I'm guessing we'll see a number of safety changes implemented from this incident. Those enforcing the track rules will no longer make exceptions to the drivers theatrical stunts that the media hypes up and markets to draw spectators. NASCAR is as guilty as any and with their close association to the dirt track scene they may be the first to take the lead........and protect their fan base image through the media by marketing driver safety.

Hopefully we'll see serious fines for drivers taking action of that nature that will make them think twice when in a state of rage.

Stay belted in and in the safety of the disabled car until the safety crew arrives. If you want to get verbal and fight do it in the pits.

Tragic may well be the best description of this simple racing incident.

[intocarss]

I read on several sites that Kevin has done this (get out of his car on the track to confront someone) quite a few times in the past, and has been warned about it... I know it makes no difference to what happen..

At our tracks you are told to stay in your car and buckled in until the safety crew arrives unless it's on fire..or you will be fined and or suspended.