Containing the Metal Shop Mess... Ideas?

[Revved]

OK as i'm laying out the new shop I'm looking for ideas on what other shops have done to contain the mess and debris from the metal fabrication area. I'm working with a 6000 sq ft metal building shop with 16' eave height and I'd guess 22-24' ish peak clear span. Fully insulated, with A/C and heat. I've thought of doing a completely closed room but that poses the challenges of ventilation. I've seen some places use curtains to surround the metal shop but with the high ceilings and judging by how the dust traveled in my small shop I'm thinking there have to be better ideas.

Throw out your ideas and better yet your pics of what you've done or seen!!

[Revved]

50 views but no suggestions?!?!?

[Ketzer]

50 views but no suggestions?!?!?

All 50 of us are just as curious as you. Having just spent over an hour trying to clean up all the mess from the last couple days of fab...

I look at the pics from the pro shops and swear they are not really working on those cars. There is never any grit on the floor, cut off scraps, chewed up whizz wheels, nothing. Shops are always bright and sparkling... no dust anywhere.


Jeff-

[Shmoov69]

Giant magnets...... Done!! LoL!

[Che70velle]

I once worked in a shop that contained a fab department, an engine shop, and a large outer area that had many lifts, and lots of race cars. The building was 100,000 square feet, and had a partition wall that separated the engine shop from the rest. No real walls, per say, that went from floor to ceiling, but only a long partition wall maybe 9' tall. The ceiling in this building, I'm guessing was 30 feet high, so pretty much an open building. There was always machines cutting, mills running, grinders going, and welders cooking...all the time. We also did disassembly of engines and related items in this same area, so along with cuttings, shavings, scraps, and typical fab pieces, there was also oil spills, and all sorts of other fluid spills. This was a business that was very well respected in its day, and brought in many big names such as Junior Johnson, Robert Yates, Harry Gant, etc. Yes, this was the 90's, but never the less, it was a big shop with lots going on, and at the end of the day, we had to clean this place.
What we did, much like top shops still do today, was an organized cleaning routine, that took up a lot of time at closing time, but we didn't leave until it was clean. There were 5 of us, and we even mopped the floor. Yep, mopped the entire floor. Everything got wiped down, swept, and organized daily. The cleaning routine was relentless, but honestly it was pretty cool every morning to walk in and turn the lights on and say to yourself man, this place is nice and clean. Now let's go to work, mess it all up, and repeat.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You just have to be mindful of which direction you are flinging stuff, use a vacuum cleaner instead of an air nozzle and sweep between jobs. Most of the mess I get is from foot traffic tracking particles around the shop. Also watch the airflow between the shop doors.

I use a fire curtain to minimize the airborne travel.

[Revved]

You just have to be mindful of which direction you are flinging stuff, use a vacuum cleaner instead of an air nozzle and sweep between jobs. Most of the mess I get is from foot traffic tracking particles around the shop. Also watch the airflow between the shop doors.

I use a fire curtain to minimize the airborne travel.

Thanks for the pic Vince. Your setup is similar to what I've seen in the past. How well does it work for you? Drafts around the doors is a great point easily overlooked until it becomes an issue. My new building looks very similar to the structure you are working in. One thought was doing something similar with 3 sides of tall curtains and it looks like your tall curtain hangs about 3' ish down so that should give decent ventilation.

My biggest thought is to minimize the "float" that is inherent with shops and contain as much of the grinding dust as possible. In the little shop I kept all the shiny cars covered while in the shop but that can be problematic also.

[GregWeld]

I just installed a 1 1/2 hp - cyclonic vac system...http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector-Polar-Bear-Series/G0703P

using this piping to run to each machine that makes "dust" or grinds.... using waste gates to maximize vacuum to each tool being used. (I have a couple Burr King grinders)


http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2014/Main/211



I built a table a couple years back that I'm now going to make a sheet metal collection area at the base - ala a downdraft table - and plumb a 6" straight to it in an effort to give me a place to grind or buff etc small parts.


Then I got a "big mouth" that I am going to put on flexible tubing -- and move that around to try to contain dust and contaminants as much as possible. And I'm thinking I should order another one and put it behind the buffer to catch all that debris.


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Big-Mouth-Dust-Hood-with-Stand/T10117

[Revved]

Interesting idea Greg that honestly I hadn't even thought of.... A Vac system combined with the curtains would probably do well. What is left gives my 10 year old practice with the broom!

Anyone else with shop pics for a metal area?

I just installed a 1 1/2 hp - cyclonic vac system...http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector-Polar-Bear-Series/G0703P

using this piping to run to each machine that makes "dust" or grinds.... using waste gates to maximize vacuum to each tool being used. (I have a couple Burr King grinders)


http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2014/Main/211



I built a table a couple years back that I'm now going to make a sheet metal collection area at the base - ala a downdraft table - and plumb a 6" straight to it in an effort to give me a place to grind or buff etc small parts.


Then I got a "big mouth" that I am going to put on flexible tubing -- and move that around to try to contain dust and contaminants as much as possible. And I'm thinking I should order another one and put it behind the buffer to catch all that debris.


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Big-Mouth-Dust-Hood-with-Stand/T10117

[LS1-IROC]

In our shop, we built a floor to ceiling partition wall (24' ceilings) to separate the fab shop from the machine shop. It works well. Both ends of the fab shop have large over head doors in an east/west orientation. When the weather is nice the doors are open and the cross breeze makes the shop much cleaner...lol

Other than that, there is no substitute for a strict cleaning regimen.

[Roarvette]

I have a smaller shop, 800S.F., and I built this, it works incredibly well.
It will change (filter) the entire shop every 5 minutes.
I built this because I have an air conditioned shop and just can't have all that humid air coming in.
I use it mainly when sanding, grinding and painting. With painting you have to remember that only the particles get filtered, but the fumes stay, so keep the respirator on.

[SuperB70]

I use to have a big cyclone fan (my shop 320m2, fan max 2000m2) that blown out trought the wall to the filter barrel out side. But since we have long and cold winter and I didnt want to blown warm air out I bought one of these:
http://www.nederman.com/products/portable-welding-fume-and-dust-collectors/filtercart

Actually I still have the cyclone but dont need to use it. Maybe in a emergency to chance all air in the shop.

It can be next on the job but I connected to existing ducts. I have 6" duct network with close-out on every directions so I can turn the suction heve I need it. Plasmatable, postlift, grinding or frametable.

Now all the heat stays inside and all the dust stays in the filter. Even HEPA filter can be installed but thought that is overkill in the fabshop.

This been thinking to install the curtains like Vince show'd. But I thinked that would put them 3-5ft down from ceiling. My shop inside is 10.5ft high. That way they prevent most of the airborne transfer but dont mess moving stuff like long tubes around the shop.

[GregWeld]

First you need a "DUST COLLECTOR" --- but don't forget to add a SPARK ARRESTOR (the blue piece) lest you start your dust collector on fire!!

These pictures were all taken during the build out process so nothing is tidy'd up yet.... but you'll get the drift.






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7043.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7043.jpg.html)





Then get yourself a bunch of parts and pieces from NORDFAB DUCTING. The beauty of this stuff is it goes together with clamp bands and can be adjusted or moved or taken apart and moved... Added to or subtracted from as needed.





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7005_1.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7005_1.jpg.html)







The 4" hose X 40' of it - allows me to put the "big mouth" (Grizzly Tools) either on a stand it came with -- or just toss it inside a car etc.... ALL of this is controlled by METAL blast gates to control the suction where I need it.






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7054.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7054.jpg.html)







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7053.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7053.jpg.html)






This leg - has the 4" "big mouth" on a Y -- and then a bell mouth pick up that will be fabled into a sheet metal "tub" that is being built to go under my grinding table (has a grated top)..... shut off the 4" --- or shut off the 6" grinding table with the blast gate - and kick up the "toe kick" dust pan. This is towards the front of the Lift in my shop..... I can just grab a push broom and push the crud this direction and up she'll go!!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7047.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7047.jpg.html)






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7050.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7050.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

The Dust collector is 775 CFM -- so think a big block with a 750 Holley at WOT.... It sucks pretty good! But NOT good enough to have multiple openings going at once --- so if using multiple machines at once and not having to use the blast gates you'll need more CFM! This machine is 1.5 HP and comes 110V single phase -- we ordered the option to convert it to 220V.... as it will then draw less amperage. My trunk run and laterals are 6" ducting.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector-Polar-Bear-Series/G0703P



I may decide to replace it with a more powerful machine.... Now that I see how great this is going to be!

[DoozerRnD]

Being religious about cleaning is key...There will always be dust and dirt and its best not to spread it. Getting the culture to change to 'clean every day' is tougher than adding vacuum systems etc sometimes.

1. change culture
2. Make cleaning as easy as possible:

-fill expansion joints in floors (we used quikcrete) and epoxy coat.
-put everything on casters
-I just got 3 knockoff rubbermaid pushcarts...each has a trashcan and paper towels on the bottom shelf, and put your current project's tools/parts on top and bring to your work area
-get hose/extension cable reels and hang them from up high (no cords/hoses laying on the ground across the shop)
-store things in clear bins with lids so dust doesnt get into all the crevices of your parts and specialized tools
-is it hard to get a broom around a certain tool pedestal or under a table? fix that (small broom for behind tools, raise lower shelves, etc)
-if it gets your hands dirty, your hands will get everything else dirty. clean everything before proceeding!
-throw things out. its hard. it sucks. but do you really need it?


if you work with a lot of people, take a picture of what a tool area should look like, laminate it, and post it next to the tool. And have a labeled space for things. Be a dick and make people clean up after themselves (culture.....).

[GregWeld]

So Sean ---- what did you decide to do - if anything???


I'm loving the vac system I put in! The dust / mess is down to almost zero! It's amazingly simple to just pick the mess up right at the source.

[barrrf]

I used to manage a fab facility that housed 6 manual welding bays, 4 robot welding bays, 1 Mazak lazer and 1 plas table - along with various saws, brakes, ect.

For the welding bays, during my tenure there, I calculated the approx. booth cu ft and purchased the appropriately sized air movers. We fabricated our own hoods. And we purchased new curtains not unlike the ones posted by Vince. The trick was keep the curtains just off the floor enough so the air movers would pull the air from the floor up through the over head hoods. That distance is also calculable.

Later on we added one more smaller manual welding booth which we build a down draft style table and portable filtration system kinda like what Greg posted. But we build the down draft system to cover the hole bottom of the table with the air inlet positioned above a trough so sparks, slag, ect wouldn't go through the filter system.

[GregWeld]

This is the downdraft table I'm building.... just haven't finished up the collector pan under the grates. I paid $5 for each grate at Boeing surplus... they weight 120 pounds EACH -- 1 foot X 3 foot.... The "heavies" should fall to the bottom of the pan - while the dust should be contained and or sucked up in the 6" ducting. I'm making 2 removable sides (the third "side" is the bead blaster)... to 'direct' the grinding dust back down into the grated area.

I don't expect to contain 100%.... But if I can keep a majority of the filth from just floating all over the shop I'll be happy.







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7050.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Commercial%20Building/IMG_7050.jpg.html)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I was feeling impressed and slightly inadequate thinking you made those from scratch.

[GregWeld]

I was feeling impressed and slightly inadequate thinking you made those from scratch.



Storm drain grates. 3/8" X 3" strap built into a 1 foot X 3 foot grate - $5 Each. You couldn't buy a 10' stick of strap for the $5.

My biggest regret is not having bought the whole pallet of them. I probably could have gotten $10 each in scrap price.

[Revved]

So Sean ---- what did you decide to do - if anything???


I'm loving the vac system I put in! The dust / mess is down to almost zero! It's amazingly simple to just pick the mess up right at the source.


I haven't had time yet... been working on mastering the CNC plasma table and trying to finish up 3 cars to get them out the door. I really need to do it soon because that plasma table makes a mess on a different level. I love what you did with the ducting and will probably contact you when I'm ready to do it and pick your brain on your setup Greg. I love your downdraft table!!! That would be great for dressing the plasma metal art pieces I'm doing now too.

I had my industrial supply guy quote out curtains but it was close to $4k. My trim shop guy says he can do them for about a grand. I want to curtain off the whole metal shop side of the shop and have a "dirty work" area next to the metal shop.

Sleep is overrated. This year is all about making money with the shop.