Chevelle LS conversion fuel system question

[chris_65]

I'm dropping a LS engine into a 1965 Chevelle, that I'm building into a track car. I've got the engine about where I want it and just received the reworked harness and computer the other day. Now I'm trying to figure out the easiest fuel system, without breaking the bank. I know a lot of people are running Rick's tanks, but that's way out of my budget. There's several options that I've researched:
#1 - Get a stock tank and install a Phantom fuel pump $445 + tank
#2 - There's a Tanksinc tank on Ebay, complete with pump and sender $509
#3 - Some people are running a mid 90's Caprice, Road Master or Caddy Plastic tank and modifying the trunk floor to clear the fittings (cheapest, but will have to find in salvage yard and don't know if it's baffled or if track rules will allow it)
I'm planning on running hard lines and a Corvette filter.
I need your feed back or suggestions...

Thanks,

[65_LS1_T56]

Hey Chris! Welcome to :lateral:

I have an older version Ricks tank with a 5th gen pump. So far so good as long as I have a 1/4 tank or more (only on long roadcourse sweepers is an issue). That is with no baffling around the pump. So I can only offer what I've read/heard on the others
.
-I have heard good things about the Phantom stuff. Lynda Jacobs runs one that Randy Johnson installed in here '66 vert. She definitely drives here car hard. I know of a few others too with good results.

-the Tank's Inc stuff, I've heard mixed results. Seems like a lot of hot rodders use them, not sure how many are being tracked/autox'd.

-I've never talked to someone using the Caprice tank, only saw pics of it...I don't care how it looks like a big ole saggy diaper hanging under the car. I think to get it to fit, you have to cut a little bit of clearance.

Good call with the Corvette FR, lots of guys run that with great success.

[reedld]

Welcome!

What kind of HP are you planning? If you are stock LS1 or slightly above...why not buy a new tank, and use the vette works kit with a 4th gen fuel bucket. I've put ~5000 miles since I did the swap with no issues....even down to 1/8 tank. No hesitation, stalling, and it is quiet.

Do a google search on vette works...I bought a used fbody (LS) fuel bucket off eBay. I recessed my bucket to clear my trunk. Pm me for other details if you have any questions.

[chris_65]

Hey Chris! Welcome to :lateral:

I have an older version Ricks tank with a 5th gen pump. So far so good as long as I have a 1/4 tank or more (only on long roadcourse sweepers is an issue). That is with no baffling around the pump. So I can only offer what I've read/heard on the others
.
-I have heard good things about the Phantom stuff. Lynda Jacobs runs one that Randy Johnson installed in here '66 vert. She definitely drives here car hard. I know of a few others too with good results.

-the Tank's Inc stuff, I've heard mixed results. Seems like a lot of hot rodders use them, not sure how many are being tracked/autox'd.

-I've never talked to someone using the Caprice tank, only saw pics of it...I don't care how it looks like a big ole saggy diaper hanging under the car. I think to get it to fit, you have to cut a little bit of clearance.

Good call with the Corvette FR, lots of guys run that with great success.

Thanks, Aaron!
I didn't like the looks of the plastic Caprice tank either. I seen the Tanks Inc tank was baffled and recessed for the pump, but didn't know how well the pump would hold up. I know of several builds using the Phantom pump in the stock tank, but I'm not in the autox crowd (yet) to hear how well it performs.

Thanks again and I'll keep in touch...

[Che70velle]

I've got the Tanks Inc setup with a Walbro 255 pump that I bought as a kit through Tanks Inc. The pump is noisy, and their newer tanks are baffled, and the baffling is well designed. I haven't driven mine yet, only ran it in the shop, so I can't give drivability results just yet. The tank fits well, looks like a stock tank, which I like. I hate the look of a big tank hanging below the car, And I don't care if it's plastic, or stainless, it just looks bad in my opinion.

[71RS/SS396]

I know everyone is on a budget and likes to save money but, this is one area where I think people make a mistake and try and save money and then put up with sub par performance because of it. My only experience is with the DSE Rock Valley and standard pump in my wife's car which suffers from starvation below 1/4 tank and my car which has the DSE tank and the Vaporworx upgrade, imho this is the best system on the market, I've run my car completely out of fuel without any warning stumble before it quit. I like the fact that it uses an OEM pump that I can buy at any GM dealer if I need a replacement and the fact OEM's do more stringent durability tests on their pumps than any aftermarket pump mfr. can afford to do. Do you're homework on this since it's far more expensive to buy the "CHEAPER" system and rip out and install a proper system later.

[kwhizz]

I know everyone is on a budget and likes to save money but, this is one area where I think people make a mistake and try and save money and then put up with sub par performance because of it. My only experience is with the DSE Rock Valley and standard pump in my wife's car which suffers from starvation below 1/4 tank and my car which has the DSE tank and the Vaporworx upgrade, imho this is the best system on the market, I've run my car completely out of fuel without any warning stumble before it quit. I like the fact that it uses an OEM pump that I can buy at any GM dealer if I need a replacement and the fact OEM's do more stringent durability tests on their pumps than any aftermarket pump mfr. can afford to do. Do you're homework on this since it's far more expensive to buy the "CHEAPER" system and rip out and install a proper system later.

x 100

[Che70velle]

If I were gonna race my car, I would have gone Vaporworks all day long, but mine is just a cruiser that will dodge cones a few times a year. I won't buy something that I don't need, just because it's cool and really expensive.
No doubt hands down the Vaporworks stuff is the top of the line, and is perfect for the guy racing his ride in low fuel conditions.

[jwcarguy]

If I were gonna race my car, I would have gone Vaporworks all day long, but mine is just a cruiser that will dodge cones a few times a year. I won't buy something that I don't need, just because it's cool and really expensive.
No doubt hands down the Vaporworks stuff is the top of the line, and is perfect for the guy racing his ride in low fuel conditions.


X2

It comes down to budget and intended use

If considering a Tanks Inc unit, give Matt or Kim a call at Matts Classic Bowties, I inquired about the Tanks, and they started to carry it, to offer another option to people building cars

you can always upgrade to the larger Walbro 400 pump too when ordering the kit (compared to the 255 pump, approx $60 difference)

Jeff

[CURVES]

I had a standard Ricks tank with a Walbro 255.

It embarrassed me a few times waiting for lights on uphill slopes:hairpullout:

[Spiffav8]

VaporWorxs. It's that simple.

Here...I'll make it easy for you:
http://www.vaporworx.com/
http:http://www.rickstanks.com///

:captain:

[chris_65]

X2

It comes down to budget and intended use

If considering a Tanks Inc unit, give Matt or Kim a call at Matts Classic Bowties, I inquired about the Tanks, and they started to carry it, to offer another option to people building cars

you can always upgrade to the larger Walbro 400 pump too when ordering the kit (compared to the 255 pump, approx $60 difference)

Jeff

Jeff,
I contacted Kim @ MCB and for some reason, she said that none of the tanks they get from Tanks Inc. are baffled and that she recommended running the 255 pump (handles up to 600hp).

[jwcarguy]

Jeff,
I contacted Kim @ MCB and for some reason, she said that none of the tanks they get from Tanks Inc. are baffled and that she recommended running the 255 pump (handles up to 600hp).

Maybe Kim, misunderstood the question?
I have one and it is baffled (maybe, not as compared to a Vaporworks, but??)
Clearly states on the Tanks Inc page:
EFI style internal baffling. Extra Large 4.3 liter internal fuel tray to prevent fuel pump starvation.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=347/category_id=144/mode=prod/prd347.htm

Kim and Matt are great to deal with!

[chris_65]

There's been a lot of suggestions for my fuel system question. I appreciate it and I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do about a tank...

#1 Buy a stock tank, get a adapter ring from VetteWorks and use a 99'-02' pump and a Corvette regulator. (They claim that the 4th gen F-body will fit depth wise, but I've seen other builds claiming that they had to build up a 1" flange for the pump to fit or cut down the basket).

#2 Buy a stock tank, get a adapter ring from VetteWorks and use a 5th gen F-body pump. (I guess with the pump having only one line coming out the top, that I wouldn't have to run a Vette regulator and I was curious what the tube at the bottom of the basket is for).

Question... If I go with either of the OEM pumps w/ baskets, down the road can I upgrade just the pump and still use the same basket?

#3 Buy a tanks Inc baffled tank w/pump and sender (I've heard that the pumps aren't the best and noisy).

#4 My only other option is to buy a stock tank and get a install a Phantom pump w/ a Vette regulator.

What to do??? I'm leaning towards #1,2 or 4. I'd like to commit to something and start getting the parts ordered and on the way...

[reedld]

There's been a lot of suggestions for my fuel system question. I appreciate it and I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do about a tank...

#1 Buy a stock tank, get a adapter ring from VetteWorks and use a 99'-02' pump and a Corvette regulator. (They claim that the 4th gen F-body will fit depth wise, but I've seen other builds claiming that they had to build up a 1" flange for the pump to fit or cut down the basket).

#2 Buy a stock tank, get a adapter ring from VetteWorks and use a 5th gen F-body pump. (I guess with the pump having only one line coming out the top, that I wouldn't have to run a Vette regulator and I was curious what the tube at the bottom of the basket is for).

Question... If I go with either of the OEM pumps w/ baskets, down the road can I upgrade just the pump and still use the same basket?.

I'm using option 1. My 4th gen fuel bucket was recessed so I didn't have to notch my trunk. When using this system, you do not need the additional vette regulator...the 4th gen LS1 FBody has it built in. Run the lines just like you see on the vetteworks site (or my build thread).

After I bought the used fuel bucket, I looked around and found a new GM fuel pump. I was worried that I did not know how many miles were on it...so I swapped it for piece of mind. If I didn't already have the 0-90ohm fuel guage..I would have used the fuel float that comes with the 4th gen bucket. When I changed the pump, I shortened some of the lines so they would not kink and it allowed me to compress the bucket ~inch more. Look around on eBay, these pumps can be had for~$40. I bought mine from a LS dismantler in Philly area (eBay user FParts). These buckets work great (so much quieter than my old external pump!). No need for baffling. The bucket stays full of fuel all the time...pump instantaneously starts pulling fuel from bucket if it senses the pickup is sucking air. Like I said earlier...I've run it down to 1/8 tank...no stumbling..stalling...hestiation whatsoever. The only drawback is HP. If you are going real wild...get a better system (maybe the 5th gen).

As far as it not fitting...I don't have a lot of advice. A guy on nastyz28.com did a LT swap on a 78 camaro...he used longer straps and shimmed the tank a little so it did not hit the trunk. Another guy I know put a small hole/door in his trunk. I thought about shortening my bucket but it looked like quite a job. I'd like to see a write up on it!

Anyway...good luck, you have a lot to think about.

Leon


Here is a link explaining how the bucket works..

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2311802#post2311802

[chris_65]

Maybe Kim, misunderstood the question?
I have one and it is baffled (maybe, not as compared to a Vaporworks, but??)
Clearly states on the Tanks Inc page:
EFI style internal baffling. Extra Large 4.3 liter internal fuel tray to prevent fuel pump starvation.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=347/category_id=144/mode=prod/prd347.htm

Kim and Matt are great to deal with!

Jeff,
What pump are you running in you Tanks Inc. tank? Are you having any problems (starvation or noise)?

[jwcarguy]

Jeff,
What pump are you running in you Tanks Inc. tank? Are you having any problems (starvation or noise)?

I am running the 255 right now ( engine is only at approx 550- 570hp @ crank now)

No noises or issues of starvation

Thanks Jeff

[chris_65]

I'm using option 1. My 4th gen fuel bucket was recessed so I didn't have to notch my trunk. When using this system, you do not need the additional vette regulator...the 4th gen LS1 FBody has it built in. Run the lines just like you see on the vetteworks site (or my build thread).

After I bought the used fuel bucket, I looked around and found a new GM fuel pump. I was worried that I did not know how many miles were on it...so I swapped it for piece of mind. If I didn't already have the 0-90ohm fuel guage..I would have used the fuel float that comes with the 4th gen bucket. When I changed the pump, I shortened some of the lines so they would not kink and it allowed me to compress the bucket ~inch more. Look around on eBay, these pumps can be had for~$40. I bought mine from a LS dismantler in Philly area (eBay user FParts). These buckets work great (so much quieter than my old external pump!). No need for baffling. The bucket stays full of fuel all the time...pump instantaneously starts pulling fuel from bucket if it senses the pickup is sucking air. Like I said earlier...I've run it down to 1/8 tank...no stumbling..stalling...hestiation whatsoever. The only drawback is HP. If you are going real wild...get a better system (maybe the 5th gen).

As far as it not fitting...I don't have a lot of advice. A guy on nastyz28.com did a LT swap on a 78 camaro...he used longer straps and shimmed the tank a little so it did not hit the trunk. Another guy I know put a small hole/door in his trunk. I thought about shortening my bucket but it looked like quite a job. I'd like to see a write up on it!

Anyway...good luck, you have a lot to think about.

Leon


Here is a link explaining how the bucket works..

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2311802#post2311802

Leon,
So if I get a stock tank, will the gen 4 F-body pump fit in the tank height wise, w/o raising the mounting area of the pump into the tank? I seen that Vetteworks had a recessed panel to be used with a gen 5 pump, but didn't see one for a gen 4. They have the ring, but didn't see a recessed panel. The gen 4 has three lines on top of the pump, one line goes to filter and then to engine, one's a vent the other is a return, if I don't run a vette reg, what do I do with the return? and the gen 5 has 1 line going to the filter then engine, how do I vent this pump? So your saying the neither pump requires a vette regulator, just a filter?

Thanks again Leon!

[reedld]

Leon,
So if I get a stock tank, will the gen 4 F-body pump fit in the tank height wise, w/o raising the mounting area of the pump into the tank? I seen that Vetteworks had a recessed panel to be used with a gen 5 pump, but didn't see one for a gen 4. They have the ring, but didn't see a recessed panel. The gen 4 has three lines on top of the pump, one line goes to filter and then to engine, one's a vent the other is a return, if I don't run a vette reg, what do I do with the return? and the gen 5 has 1 line going to the filter then engine, how do I vent this pump? So your saying the neither pump requires a vette regulator, just a filter?

Thanks again Leon!

I'm not sure what height bucket would work in a chevelle. As far as the recess, since I can't weld, I paid a guy to make my recess in my tank ($50). Do you have access to an old tank? If so, I'd measure and think out it would go in. Are you totally against making a hole in your trunk?

The three Fbody lines on the bucket- large diameter one draws fuel up from pump, out of bucket and the line T's with the smaller opposite line. This smaller line, which has a T on the line, is the return and has the fuel pressure regulator line. The pump delivers greater than 58psi....the fuel pressure regulator "adjusts fuel pressure", sends proper fuel to engine and what ever is left over gets returned to the fuel bucket. This cycle continues minute after minute as the pump runs. Bucket has fuel in it always. This keeps the pump quiet, cool, and a source of fuel as the tank gets low...and you turn corners and it cannot pickup fuel from the stock pickup. The middle line is the fuel vent. Connect this to a charcoal filter or run to fuel rail if you are keeping the smog stuff. I'm running my lines just like the the picture shows, no additional FPR.

http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/reedld/fuel%20system/6fc49c0f17996976f746f42f0087f00d.jpg

The main pickup of the bucket has fuel sock..used for filtering. I run an inline filter just as the fuel heads up to the front of the car.

This diagram shows you the parts of the fuel bucket. Item 9 is the FPR.

http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/reedld/fuel%20system/ef6cfc4381241be691260b540888723a_zps0ab9db11.jpg

[kainedogg]

I plan to go with Tanks Inc's newer baffled design with twin pumps in my '72 Chevelle. Heard nothing but good things about it and it seems reasonable.

[fishface]

Not sure if they make one for your Chevelle but I plan to go with Aeromotive tank and pump through Summit for about $750. No personal experience with it but have heard good things.

[jwcarguy]

Not sure if they make one for your Chevelle but I plan to go with Aeromotive tank and pump through Summit for about $750. No personal experience with it but have heard good things.


Just a fyi
That tank is made by Tanks Inc with a Aeromotive pump setup

[MCB Matt]

The tanks inc kit doesn't have a true baffle, its a 7x9" tray at the bottom of the tank, while its better than a stock tank it's not meant to run with low fuel on the track.

The Vaporworx, obviously, will run until its dry. You just need to choose what's best for you.

Based on price, I carry only these two, they fit most budgets and work for simple FI swaps and Auto-X / Road course.... It just depends on how much fuel you need and how low you NEED to run your level at.

Matt

[kainedogg]

I plan to go with Tanks Inc's newer baffled design with twin pumps in my '72 Chevelle. Heard nothing but good things about it and it seems reasonable.

So said, so done. Went with the Tanks Inc, with the walbro 400lph from Matts Classic Bowties. Should be enough to feed an S475 turbo, on pump gas and decent cornering on C5 Z06 wheels. :thumbsup:

[MCB Matt]

So said, so done. Went with the Tanks Inc, with the walbro 400lph from Matts Classic Bowties. Should be enough to feed an S475 turbo, on pump gas and decent cornering on C5 Z06 wheels. :thumbsup:

PICS PICS PICS!!!

I need to see this setup! Post up some pics once you get far enough along, this should be a cool build to follow!

Thanks again for the order, we appreciate the biz.
Matt