Art Morrison triangulated 4 link

[jarhead]

I am thinking about buying the triangulated 4 link 9" housing and individual parts, but not the "chassis" for my 68 Torino.

What would I need to strengthen on the back of my unibody formal roof Torino to ensure the unibody would not flex?

What else would i want to do to ensure I had everything "trued" up during the install?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r194/CattkeKing/Torino/triangulated_zps6cb3ad3f.jpg

Thanks, Joe

[GregWeld]

I hope others chime in here....


I think in order to really make that work - you're basically going to back half the car.... tying in a roll cage with down bars to thru the rear to the chassis you added. It would help the car no matter what so would be a good addition anyway I think.


I wouldn't do that kind of project unless I had some kind of frame table. Cause you're going to be cutting a lot of structure out before you can start welding stuff back in.


Hopefully a couple of the pros will chime in.

[Spiffav8]

What you need to do is call AME, tell them what it is you want to do and let them guide you. They will have their Engineers look at what needs to be done to do it right and advise you on how to achieve your goal. Customer service at AME is very impressive. Ask for Scott. I've dealt with him before and the guy is awesome.

[jarhead]

Greg,
Wouldn't this be similar to what Jason had done with the DSE Quadralink?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=28042

Curtis,
Thanks I do plan on calling AME just wanted some input here first.

I see AME is a supporting vendor as well...

[GregWeld]

Greg,
Wouldn't this be similar to what Jason had done with the DSE Quadralink?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=28042

Curtis,
Thanks I do plan on calling AME just wanted some input here first.

I see AME is a supporting vendor as well...




Well -- I didn't spend hours going thru his thread -- but looks to me like Jason just did a mini tub job and added a 4 link to his existing chassis rails.... What you showed was an entire frame which means the rails have to come out and much of the floor etc --- so they're similar but really two completely different jobs. He left all the structure there - or at least that's what it appears to me with just spending a couple minutes looking at it.

[GregWeld]

By the way ---- That's exactly how I'd go about updating the suspension. You can buy all of these parts from Morrison or DSE and do without the chassis portion. Morrison folks are super helpful --- and it's really just a whole bunch of measuring - tacking in the mounts - landing the arms - triple checking and squaring --- before you weld 'em final.

I did my brother in laws Camaro with about half a dozen plumb bobs --- a couple squares -- some straight 1 by tubing - pulled about a zillion measurements off before I ever started and wrote them all down... and checked for square and went to cutting....

I added a crossmember for Rudy since his is pro street and he's running 18" wide tires... so I couldn't land the stuff anywhere near his existing frame rails (if you call the tin crap in a '69 Camaro a frame rail). Originally on his job we were leaving everything else alone -- so I even flipped the crossmember upside down and used it as a driveline loop... rather than cut up into his floor.... of course then we ended up gutting the car and doing all new upholstery --- so I could have welded it in correctly and attached his whole floor to it but OH WELL.

[jarhead]

That is what I was saying...

I am thinking about buying the triangulated 4 link 9" housing and individual parts, but not the "chassis"

I guess it wasn't too clear...

I will give AME a call :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

That is what I was saying...

I am thinking about buying the triangulated 4 link 9" housing and individual parts, but not the "chassis"

I guess it wasn't too clear...

I will give AME a call :thumbsup:



You're implying that I can read and retain....



LOL

[jarhead]

You're implying that I can read and retain....



LOL

:lmao:

[jarhead]

a 69 with the full chassis...

http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=18296

[FETorino]

For the best rear articulation you don't want a triangulated 4 link. For some how to advice start with post 11.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42568&page=2

[jarhead]

For the best rear articulation you don't want a triangulated 4 link. For some how to advice start with post 11.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42568&page=2

Thanks, I had never seen this...

[dhutton]

Thanks, I had never seen this...

Somewhere out there a magazine (PHR?) did a performance comparison between the AME triangulated four bar and three link suspensions on the same car. Difference in performance was very small if I recall.

Edit: Here it is:

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/sucp-1008-1969-chevy-camaro-suspension-tests/

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO2yva2JvAY

Don

[jarhead]

Somewhere out there a magazine (PHR?) did a performance comparison between the AME triangulated four bar and three link suspensions on the same car. Difference in performance was very small if I recall.

Edit: Here it is:

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/sucp-1008-1969-chevy-camaro-suspension-tests/

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO2yva2JvAY

Don

Thanks Don

What you need to do is call AME, tell them what it is you want to do and let them guide you. They will have their Engineers look at what needs to be done to do it right and advise you on how to achieve your goal. Customer service at AME is very impressive. Ask for Scott. I've dealt with him before and the guy is awesome.

Talked to Scott today, thanks for pointing me that direction, he had allot of great advice!

By the way ---- That's exactly how I'd go about updating the suspension. You can buy all of these parts from Morrison or DSE and do without the chassis portion. Morrison folks are super helpful --- and it's really just a whole bunch of measuring - tacking in the mounts - landing the arms - triple checking and squaring --- before you weld 'em final.

I did my brother in laws Camaro with about half a dozen plumb bobs --- a couple squares -- some straight 1 by tubing - pulled about a zillion measurements off before I ever started and wrote them all down... and checked for square and went to cutting....

I added a crossmember for Rudy since his is pro street and he's running 18" wide tires... so I couldn't land the stuff anywhere near his existing frame rails (if you call the tin crap in a '69 Camaro a frame rail). Originally on his job we were leaving everything else alone -- so I even flipped the crossmember upside down and used it as a driveline loop... rather than cut up into his floor.... of course then we ended up gutting the car and doing all new upholstery --- so I could have welded it in correctly and attached his whole floor to it but OH WELL.

I think I am going to buy the parts from AME and do the install the way you mentioned.

For the best rear articulation you don't want a triangulated 4 link. For some how to advice start with post 11.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42568&page=2

Thanks for steering me back in the right direction again. Scott with AME said the triangulated would be a tough install for a first timer.

And after I read all the Ron Sutton stuff the parallel sounds like the way to go. I need to finish all my other projects on the GT first, then I will tackle this. I do think I have decided on the AME package after talking to Scott, I will just do it with their parts and not the clip after I understand it more.

[Spiffav8]

Glad to hear you talked to Scott and that it was beneficial.

[dhutton]

Thanks Don



Talked to Scott today, thanks for pointing me that direction, he had allot of great advice!



I think I am going to buy the parts from AME and do the install the way you mentioned.



Thanks for steering me back in the right direction again. Scott with AME said the triangulated would be a tough install for a first timer.

And after I read all the Ron Sutton stuff the parallel sounds like the way to go. I need to finish all my other projects on the GT first, then I will tackle this. I do think I have decided on the AME package after talking to Scott, I will just do it with their parts and not the clip after I understand it more.

Isn't a parallel setup mostly for drag racing with the exception of the Quadralink that has the swivel links to allow it to articulate? For best articulation I thought it was a three link followed by a triangulated four link, except as noted for the quadralink.

Don

[jarhead]

Isn't a parallel setup mostly for drag racing with the exception of the Quadralink that has the swivel links to allow it to articulate? For best articulation I thought it was a three link followed by a triangulated four link, except as noted for the quadralink.

Don


I was going by this from that Ron Sutton link…

For the best adjustable rear suspension for road racing, track car, or AutoX car, is the adjustable 3-link, as it has the best articulation. The adjustable parallel 4-link will work well as long as the car doesn’t require a high degree of roll angle for the suspension to work.

[GregWeld]

Art Morrisons tri-five chassis has been proven to pull over a G... using the triangulated 4 bar... And this is nothing but a simple "replacement" chassis with somewhat improved suspension geometry. So unless you're going to be a competitive road racer, I don't see why this simple suspension wouldn't suit you just fine.

[dhutton]

I am confusing a four link with a four bar. Sorry about that. I should know better than to post by now... :D

From the AME website:

4-Bar vs. 4-Link: A Tech Overview...
In a nutshell, a 4-link setup is best
suited to Drag Race or Pro Street type
vehicles where high horsepower engines
and large tires are being used. The 4-link
can be adjusted easily to compensate for
track conditions and control the amount of
“hit” the tire takes on the launch. And due
to the high kick-up of the frame rails,
modifications to the trunk and rear floor
are required—often times the rear seat
must be removed.
The 4-bar has longer, parallel bars and
a lower frame kick-up. It is ideally suited
to street and air spring suspension setups,
provides more latitude in setting ride
height and its polyurethane-bushed rod
ends make for a smoother, quieter ride. In
most installations the rear seat can be
retained, with little or no modifications the
seat itself. It’s neat for the street!

[GregWeld]

Don't confuse 4 BAR or PARALLEL 4 BAR with Triangulated 4 Bar -- they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT configurations other than they use 4 bars...

[dhutton]

Don't confuse 4 BAR or PARALLEL 4 BAR with Triangulated 4 Bar -- they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT configurations other than they use 4 bars...

Agreed. OP is talking about installing a parallel 4 bar in his car. He was told that the triangulated four bar is too complex for a novice to install.

He wrote and I quote:
"Scott with AME said the triangulated would be a tough install for a first timer. And after I read all the Ron Sutton stuff the parallel sounds like the way to go."

Don

[GregWeld]

Agreed. OP is talking about installing a parallel 4 bar in his car. He was told that the triangulated four bar is too complex for a novice to install.

Don



Not sure -- since I didn't go back to research -- who told him that (too difficult for a novice to install)... but that's really arbitrary. There are novices that shouldn't do ANYTHING and there are guys with pretty good brains and decent skills that can do a good job at most everything they touch.


I think ol' Jarhead is up to the task.


There's plenty of folks around here that would be happy to guide him if he needs it.

[dhutton]

Not sure -- since I didn't go back to research -- who told him that (too difficult for a novice to install)... but that's really arbitrary. There are novices that shouldn't do ANYTHING and there are guys with pretty good brains and decent skills that can do a good job at most everything they touch.


I think ol' Jarhead is up to the task.


There's plenty of folks around here that would be happy to guide him if he needs it.

AME told him that. I have no reason to doubt that he is up to the task. I was more surprised that parallel 4 bar suspensions (aside from the Quadralink) are being recommended on this forum.

Don

[GregWeld]

AME told him that. I have no reason to doubt that he is not up to the task. I was more surprised that parallel 4 bar suspensions (aside from the Quadralink) are being recommended on this forum.

Don



Agree Don -- Parallel 4 bar is the worst suspension if a guy wants to go around a corner. This is the style I built for Rudy's pro-street Camaro. That's what he wanted. It's almost impossible to ROLL the rear suspension since the suspension just wants to go up and down in a PARALLEL motion from side to side. This stye suspension is great for big fat tires and straight lines. And it really should be called a 5 BAR -- because you need a PANHARD BAR (the 5th bar) in order to keep the rear end stable from side to side. Whereas the triangulation of a triangulated 4 bar doesn't need the Panhard bar for location.


I certainly don't see ANY reason at all for the "harder to install" comment. ZERO - NADA - ZIP.... if a guy can measure - cut - weld - understands SQUARE - PARALLEL - LEVEL etc -- They should be fine.

[ccracin]

Agree Don -- Parallel 4 bar is the worst suspension if a guy wants to go around a corner. This is the style I built for Rudy's pro-street Camaro. That's what he wanted. It's almost impossible to ROLL the rear suspension since the suspension just wants to go up and down in a PARALLEL motion from side to side. This stye suspension is great for big fat tires and straight lines. And it really should be called a 5 BAR -- because you need a PANHARD BAR (the 5th bar) in order to keep the rear end stable from side to side. Whereas the triangulation of a triangulated 4 bar doesn't need the Panhard bar for location.


I certainly don't see ANY reason at all for the "harder to install" comment. ZERO - NADA - ZIP.... if a guy can measure - cut - weld - understands SQUARE - PARALLEL - LEVEL etc -- They should be fine.

I agree completely Greg. We used all the individual components of the AME triangulated 4-Link in the chassis I built for the truck. Some strings, level, square, Plumb Lines etc. No problem.