Noob Question (65 Chevelle/66Nova)

[PoorMan]

Greetings all (noob's first post).

I've been out of the car scene for a long time now but have been re-bitten by the bug. I've decided to build a true daily driver--this will be my only car. Although less radical than the cars I've seen here, it will be more pro touring style than anything else. Accordingly I will devote most of my efforts to handling, braking, stance and comfort. It seems an F body would be the easiest to build for what I am trying to acheive, but (at this point) I've decided to make things harder on myself and build either a '65 Chevelle or '66 Nova.

Plans will most likely include mini tubs, a new front clip (or chassis if needed) etc. I'd like it to handle and brake like the dickens, but as a daily driver I need a reasonably comfortable ride at the same time. To sum it up, I guess I'm after the modern standard of a high performance braking and handling street car. I'd like to use a 275 rear tire, but in the case of a 65 Chevelle, I may consider 245s to save money on mini tubs. 18" wheels.

Can anyone suggest the type of suspesnion/chassis I should be looking at or what companies provide parts for an application such as this? Surely a full tube frame and 4 link would be too radical for my application, but I'm not really sure where to go for street performance parts and info. Perhaps a Hotchkis TVS kit on a 65 Chevelle will give me sufficient performance for what I'm after? Help?

Thanks!
Dave

[sick65]

Just a thought...the Nova will need to entire front suspension cut off and replaced to get it low and handling correctly. The Chevelle on the other hand already has a good start; it would just need some updated pieces. On the other hand, I love the body style of the 66 Nova, even though I drive a 65 Malibu. My two cents...If this is on a budget, I would go with the 65 Chevelle.

[PoorMan]

Just a thought...the Nova will need to entire front suspension cut off and replaced to get it low and handling correctly. The Chevelle on the other hand already has a good start; it would just need some updated pieces. On the other hand, I love the body style of the 66 Nova, even though I drive a 65 Malibu. My two cents...If this is on a budget, I would go with the 65 Chevelle.

Agreed. I have (what I consider) a decent amount of cabbage to build this thing. But since I've been out of the scene for a while it may cost a lot more than I expect. I guess it would be ridiculous for me to ask what it costs to build one of these...

I suspected I'd need at least a new front clip and mini tubs for a 66 Nova. I know it'll be a lot more work...but I like the 66 Nova's lines a little better.

Care to share the details of your 65 Chevelle build? Parts etc?

Thanks.

[killer65malibu]

I would go with the Chevelle , I say that because I have one and im working on it! And suspension wise Global West Negetive roll system way more versitle than the hotchkins. They have a sweet coil over set up check it out at GLOBALWEST.NET.

[killer65malibu]

I would go with the Chevelle , I say that because I have one and im working on it! And suspension wise Global West has a Negetive roll system way more versitle than the hotchkins system. They have a sweet coil over set up check it out at GLOBALWEST.NET.

[PoorMan]

The Chevelle does seem like a better platform to start with. I'm not a pro builder or anything so using a packaged system like Global West's is inviting. (Especially after reading they had a 65 Chevelle with just a few of their parts pull .96 Gs) :thumbsup:

killer65malibu and sick65, can you share some of the details of your builds? I don't know a lot about these cars specifically so I'm wondering what I need to get them to really perform? I think it's safe to say I'll use Global West for suspension components. What about rotor size? I want 4 wheel discs. 13" front and 12" rear maybe? Any other helpful suggestions specific to these cars? How big a tire can you stuff in the stock wheel wells? I've read 245 mostly but somewhere else said 275 with rolled fender lips. Think I could put 18" in front, 20" in back and still slam it?

Thanks bros.

[Mean 69]

Before you spend all of your money on the suspension, there are some other things you might consider. One, finding a decent 65 Chevelle, OR a decent 66/7 Nova is the first step, neither are going to be cheap. Find a good Nova, and the costs associated with fixing the really bad front might even work in your favor relative to a Chevelle. The back end is a wash, neither are good, but there are some pretty good solutions out there that make this part of the decision moot.

BUT!!!!! One thing that cannot be overlooked when you are talking about overall performance is weight. The Chevelle is WAY heavier than the very light Nova, and as a result, everything must scale accordingly. Not only horsepower, consider tires, drivetrain, all of it needs to be able to really push the bigger Chevelle around.

One good thing is that it seems that the aftermarket supports both cars really well in terms of trim pieces, body metal, etc. Far easier than finding the silly pieces for a Mopar B-body (ask me how I know...).

Both of these cars have a ton of character, you really can't go wrong with either. If you are willing to cut the car up a little bit, both of these platforms can be made to absolutely scream and handle exceptionally. We are planning on developing both front and rear suspension solutions for both of them in the near future. Whatever you decide, have a great time with the project, and by all means post pictures!!!

Mark

[PoorMan]

One thing that cannot be overlooked when you are talking about overall performance is weight. The Chevelle is WAY heavier than the very light Nova, and as a result, everything must scale accordingly. Not only horsepower, consider tires, drivetrain, all of it needs to be able to really push the bigger Chevelle around.
Mark

Weight is a major concern for me...as is size. I live in a townhouse with a 2 car garage and my wife drives a SUV...so she takes up most of the garage. I'm willing to chop the car up a bit, my concern with the Nova is (even with the front clips I've seen) the manufacturers claim the biggest front wheel is a 16x7...not particularly large IMO and with that they turned .86Gs...I'd like to pull more Gs. I'm sure there are plenty of tub solutions for the rear.

I'd prefer the Nova in terms of size, weight and looks...what kind of front clip and rear suspension would you suggest for my application (daily driver and sole mode of transportation)? How big could I go with tires?

Cash isn't so much a problem--I think my chosen forum handle has thrown people off. Having said that, I don't want to just throw money at a car either.

[PoorMan]

Bump.

Newbie still needs help bros! More reasearch has lead me to believe I should build an F body (something I am opposed to for my own reasons). Someone please help me engineer a 66 Nova?!?!? :hail:

[lt1 chevelle]

i would build a 65 chevelle they have tons of bolt on goodies and they had grate lines but you will have a hard time finding a chevelle or a 66 nova in good shape i got lucky and picked mine up for 3500 with the global west front suspenion might i add the car only had rust on the driver door.(got it from a guy who needed $$) also u can stuff bigger tires on a chevelle with out alot of mods

[Mean 69]

What is the timeframe for the car? In all honesty, it shouldn't be hard at all to get WAY more than .86g out of a car that light, with that wheelbase and track. I would "think" that you can get a 245/275 tire stagger on the car without too much fuss, running a great set of street tires, or a good set of R compound tires with that light car should stick really well.

If you are in a hurry and do a bolt on approach (i.e. Mustang II dervied front suspension, good rear leafs), you'll still probably be really happy with the car. If you have some time to wait for what we are developing, I KNOW you'll be happy with the car. The same could be said for either car. I'd recommend finding someone with a car similar to what you are trying to build and go for a ride in it with them. Depending upon where you live, you might be well off to travel to one of the bigger shows, like Good Guys or one of the Super Chevy shows. With the cost to build a car these days, especially the cost of buying it in the first place, it's worth doing research (like you are doing) and actually riding along in a car.

Mark

[PoorMan]

I don't have a specific time frame, I'm just anxious to get started.

Mark, I read in another post tha you have a company that makes suspension components. Do you have a website? When do you expect your Nova kit to be completed?

[USAZR1]

With stock-width rear,you can fit a 285 tire in either a 17" or 18" diameter w/o rolling the lips on a 65 A-body. On the front,an 8" wide wheel and 245 tire will work.

[PoorMan]

With stock-width rear,you can fit a 285 tire in either a 17" or 18" diameter w/o rolling the lips on a 65 A-body. On the front,an 8" wide wheel and 245 tire will work.

Thanks for the info. That workes for me...except for the weight and size issue of the 65 Chevelle...for those reasons I'd prefer to go for a 66 Nova (if I can find a nice chassis kit). But I've gone back and forth on the issue many times. :willy:

More info please? Particularly in relation to 66 Novas Chassis kits, suspension, front clips, mini tubs etc?

[nova65ss]

My first post here and just wanted to say that the advertised wheel size on the aftermarket Nova fronts isn't totally correct. I had an 18 x 8 w/ 5 1/4 BS on the front of mine. Didn't rub anywhere same for the back w/ stock wheel tubs and suspension. The front end is a TCI it has the frame rails kicked in a little, I'm sure it's not the best all out track suspension but much better than the original. Hope that helps your decision a little.

Jimmy

[PoorMan]

Don't want to edit my first post (in case I should change my mind yet again). But I'm most interested in a 66 Nova--at this point. :rolleyes:

[Mean 69]

Poorman, yes, I/we do manufacture suspensions systems. Our website is under construction, probably about 40% complete and will have a lot of great info in it, not all that I'd like, but more than most in terms of specifics to our setups(s). I can't commit to a specific timeframe to complete the early Nova kits, the next rear kit we will be doing is the E-Body Mopar, and that will begin in the next few weeks (estimated completion mid-late Summer for that one). Thereafter we will have the engineering capacity to knock out another configuration, the next in line are the early Nova cars (like yours) and also the early Mustang (I have a 65 FB in the shop just waiting patiently for her turn). The interesting thing is that the Novas and Mustangs are amazingly similar, there is no question that some "borrowing" of ideas was at hand between Ford and Chevy back in the day. Good thing is that it will make the development of both of the suspension solutions far easier.

We are also concurrently working on our front suspension system, I spent all weekend in the shop prototyping on my 70 Camaro, and the pieces are really starting to fall into place. Our solution won't be a Mustang II derived setup, nor a "take a bunch of pieces from a wrecked Corvette and build a frame around them" solution, it is completely custom in virtually every detail. Mind you, the Corvette/Mustang based systems aren't necessarily bad, we studied them too, but when it came down to it, we just could not meet our design requirements necessary to get the performance we are after using these parts as donor parts: too many compromises. As with everything we seek to do, we have very high expectations and are pretty certain that this will knock people's socks off. Here again, once the building blocks are established (i.e. proprietary custom components), developing car specific setups will go much faster. You need to pay the Piper at some point, we're paying him now.

That was long-winded and non-committal, but it is the truth; "we're working on it."

Mark

[PoorMan]

I appreciate your honesty, Mark. I appreciate your feedback as well. I may not be able to wait for your product to hit the market, but if it is available at my time of need you can be sure that I'll be a customer. Your candor, input and efforts are greatly appreciatiated by a newbie like myself.

I'm a mortgage guy, as much as I'd like to pretend I'm a hot rod expert--I'm not. Because of that, I'd just like to give Mark a big thumbs up for all his advice. (more is welcomed by the way)

Thanks again, Mark. :thumbsup:

OH! Please post that link as soon as your website is up and running!

[dinodino]

I'm interested in this as well. This is my first post, and I came to this site looking for help building my wife's '66 Nova. I'm planning to use Wayne Due's C4 subfrme, and am undecided on the rear. I'll be following your project with interest!

[PoorMan]

I'm interested in this as well. This is my first post, and I came to this site looking for help building my wife's '66 Nova. I'm planning to use Wayne Due's C4 subfrme, and am undecided on the rear. I'll be following your project with interest!

My concern with th Wayne Due subframe is it requires 84-87 Vette control arms...which Chevy no longer makes. So you have to find used ones and make sure there are no cracks or other problems. This may or may not be an issue for you, but I'd like to order a complete kit rotor to rotor and just have to worry about installation.

Chassis Works and Martz seem to have a more "complete product" offering. I especially like Chassis Works splash panels...clean. (But I have no idea how one of these handles against another) :(

[BLWN1]

any updates, Im curious about the nova setups.. :thumbsup:

[Marcus SC&C]

Chevy IIs are neat cars. We`ve had and done a bunch of them over the years. The whole front end needs to go away. There are some pretty good aftermarket alternatives though. We did a `66 with a mild small block,Heidts front clip with tubular arms (they use taller Chrysler upper ball joints which improve the geometry on the MII front end). With the firmer of Heidt`s springs (forget the rate),the optional front swaybar and 225/50/16 245/50/16 rubber the car actually drove and handled quite well. It was a lot of fun to drive. A quantum leap from stock to be sure! Here on Lateral-G we tend to be 1% of 1% kind of car guys (the lunatic fringe,and I mean that in a good way!) and want everything as good as it can possibly be (even if that`s way WAY beyond the point of diminishing returns at times). 99% of hot rodders would be absolutely thrilled with how that car works though. If you want to go a step further Alston makes a front subframe also that although it looks MII based at first glance it is NOT. The geometry is somewhat better and it`s designed to use their adj. Varishock coilovers. A very clean setup with made to fit headers,big brakes and everything available. Neat thing about front ends like this is you can literally unbolt the old front clip,roll it away and install one of these in a weekend (if you thrash) and be back on the road. Mark SC&C

[Mean 69]

OH! Please post that link as soon as your website is up and running!

This is a good thread from the past, I remember this one clearly. As requested, our site can be found at www.lateral-dynamics.com. As an update to this specific thread, we are not any closer with the specifics of the Chev II suspension, meaning we don't have anything to sell/show at this point, but we ARE a lot closer to finalizing the design on a few of the key attributes that will be applied to all of our subsequent front setups. We will have some relevent updates to the site explaining/showing our approach on a couple of the details here soon.

Funny/strange, looks like we will be solving the issues with the rear suspension on the A body cars here very soon (few weeks?), so that one will be done before the deuce setup. My comments still stand though, lioghter is better. I have been watching the prices on the deuce cars out here in So Cal, and man, they are not softening at all, they are still very expensive. Far fewer of them listed typically than the opther models.

Mark