The panty dropper

[WSSix]

:D And now that I have your attention, I'd like to finally make my official Lat-G project thread for my TA. I honestly don't have a name for the car. I thought about Fuc king Fantastic Flying Fireturd but figured that was too much alliteration. Feel free to come up with a name if you feel so inclined. I'm terrible about coming up with names. Just ask my cat. Her name is Mouse. Who does that?

For a little back ground on the car and the previous work I've already done, like swapping in the LT1/T56 combo, you'll need to go here http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/56894-and-so-it-begins .

Since then, I haven't done much of anything other than bring the car out to Kansas from Georgia. I finally decided to go ahead and start working on the car again. I decided I would focus on the suspension since the drive train was basically sorted out and the car could move under its own power. I'll get back to the engine and making more power later one.

With that in mind, I decided I would take incremental steps with the suspension build instead of jumping right in feet first. I realize this may ultimately take more time and money but, seriously, who's counting? In being completely honest with myself, I realize the need for me to go all out on a DSE or SpeedTech set up at this point would be overkill. Maybe I'll be able to utilize the Qlink or TA suspension one day but it won't be anytime soon I don't think. I also have other goals in my life that require money. So anyway, I called Keith at Custom Works and decided to go with composite leaf springs and HD shackles in the rear. Upfront, I went with Keith's coil over kit and SpeedTech UCAs. I decided on the coil overs because I figure I'll be making changes throughout the build that could affect ride height so I might as well do these now and they will surely work for me in the future also. I have no plans to ever change the front subframe on this car. I also went with Keith's 2G frame brace that welds to the frame in front of the sway bar. A must for these cars are front engine bar bars. I chose Pro-Touring F-Body's Pro-G braces and cowl brace. I wanted the adjustability these offered over the fixed design. Here's everything as it arrived along with the Hobart Handler 140 I bought to do all the work with.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/015_zps6eb3b352.jpg

I knew I was going to need the car up off the ground to do all the work safely. I decided to build cribbing/DSE stands. I need to get a better higher rise and lower profile jack to get the car all the way up. I still have one more level I could add to the cribbing with the wood I already have cut. Suggestions welcome on a quality jack that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. For now, this will have to do

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/005_zps8cfb4eb6.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/006_zpsf90cb736.jpg

I didn't take any pictures of the installation of the frame brace or Pro-G braces. It's pretty straight forward though. I went ahead and cut the fender mount point at the firewall a little so that the brace would bolt directly to the fender and firewall. I didn't want to stack up a bunch of washers to make it work. Here's the front end bracing all in place. I didn't take a picture of the 2G frame bar. My welds on it are terrible looking. It'll hold but it's not pretty.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpsffc812d8.jpg

I originally bought subframe connectors from Keith with every intention of using them because I didn't want to cut the floor up. However, after looking at it and thinking about it, I said to hell with it and decided to just go with DSE style connectors. Keith's connectors are perfectly fine. I just always planned on going through the floor originally and decided to stay with that plan. So I got under the car and started really looking and planning out my moves. It's taken me a long time to get these done. The first one, driver's side, took me weeks of planning and building. I'd never done anything like this before so I wasn't going to just through caution to the wind and start cutting. Admittedly, my attitude was I can always replace the floors if I manage to really screw this up. Either that or Mike's in OKC and Scott's in NE Kansas. I can always call them to save the car if needed, lol.

First thing I had to do though was square up the driver's side subframe end. In order to allow the foot brake cable to pass, a crease was put in the end from the factory. I had to cut that out and build a new end so I could build the SFC brackets off of it properly. Here's what it looked like cut and after the end was tacked on.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/003_zps9abb7f42.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zps3978eb91.jpg

During the cutting process, I found that the rear frame rail wasn't welded to the floor properly. DSE mentions this in their installation instructions even. I went ahead and put a C-clamp in there, squeezed the floor back, and tacked it in place. Gotta love that 70s American build quality. If I ever get this car on a rotisserie, I'm going to fully weld the rear frame rail to the floor on the inside of the rail. There appears to be plenty of places it's not together completely. It's that way on both side of the car.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/017_zpsc25bfac5.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/020_zpsfa823e94.jpg

Here's a short interlude to a picture I find cool. My ground wire caused the metal shavings to align along the magnetic field that's created due to the current running through the wire while welding.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/013_zps6c863709.jpg

Ok, back to the build. Here's the driver's side subframe connector all done.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001_zpse385d307.jpg

Vince showed me what he had done to a car using DSE SFC's and routing the fuel and brake lines in the factory manner. I decided that was a great idea so I copied it. Thanks, Vince!

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/004_zps7698b2c5.jpg

Here's the SFC tacked in place. It angles up slightly as it goes from front to rear. I'm not sure if DSE has their design do the same thing. I wanted the connector to meet the rear rail and be flush across the bottom. I thought this would be a clean way to connect everything together.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/008_zps8925c3c2.jpg

It does cause the connector to come way up into the floor but I'll most likely never have someone sitting in the back of the car. I'm seriously thinking about mot even putting the rear seats back in the car.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zpsa7c4a1db.jpg

Here's the pass through for the brake and fuel line. This worked out really well.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/009_zps977a70d9.jpg

Like I said, it took me weeks to get the one to that point. I still have to finish welding it in place fully. I've got some bigger than I had hoped for gaps that I need to weld up too. I've got some ideas on how to accomplish that though. It'll just take time and practice. I already have the brackets that join the front subframe and connector together done also. I left everything simply tacked until I could verify I did it correctly by getting the passenger side one done in the same manner.

At this point, I have the passenger side one completed. It only took me a fraction of the time since I knew how I wanted to do it. It's tacked in place and awaiting the front brackets yet. I'll get to it and get pictures taken soon. If I had to do it again, I'd just buy the DSE connectors. Sure, I only spent $40 on a 8 foot section of steel tubing but I spent a lot of time building these. It's given me a chance to really work on my welding skills which have greatly improved though. I've got a long way to go until I really like my welds, but I'm getting there. Luckily, this isn't a show car.

That's it for now. Progress will be slow but it'll occur. Maybe.

Thanks

[glassman]

Dude, finally!!! Not on the work your doing, but getting the build over here lol.
I'd say call it "4F".....4 for the win?

Nice to see you tearing that beotch up. you'll be tearing it up before ya know it.....

Seriously though, good luck with it all and i'll be watchin ya :thumbsup:
:cheers:

[intocarss]

Fooled again :bang: :thumbsup:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Looking good Trey!!!!

On the floor pan sheet metal to connectors, weld the top and seam seal the bottom....looks much cleaner.

[WSSix]

That's a good idea, Vince. I'll look into it. Thanks.

Last night while laying in bed, I remembered I had the parking brake cables here. I need to figure out how I want to route them before I weld the driver's connector in fully in case I need to pass through it as well. I should have time to take a look at it today.

[Che70velle]

That looks great Trey. Keep at it! :thumbsup:

[NOT A TA]

I knew I was going to need the car up off the ground to do all the work safely. I decided to build cribbing/DSE stands. I need to get a better higher rise and lower profile jack to get the car all the way up. I still have one more level I could add to the cribbing with the wood I already have cut. Suggestions welcome on a quality jack that doesn't cost a ridiculous amount. For now, this will have to do

Looks like you're moving along! Here's how I get the car up high enough to get it on tall crib stacks.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Garage%20and%20shop/EVEL026.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Garage%20and%20shop/EVEL026.jpg.html)

[WSSix]

Thanks Scott.

Thanks John. How do you like that Craftsman jack? It's pretty low profile like it'll fit under our front subframes fine. Does it?

[jarhead]

I too am glad you brought your build over here to share, I am on way too many forums as it is to sign up for one more, lol.

Man I am going to steal this some day :D

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/009_zps977a70d9.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That's a good idea, Vince. I'll look into it. Thanks.

Last night while laying in bed, I remembered I had the parking brake cables here. I need to figure out how I want to route them before I weld the driver's connector in fully in case I need to pass through it as well. I should have time to take a look at it today.

You can still use the factory pass through...just have to remember not to weld it closed.
I picked this Jack up last year to replace my broken Snap-on. My $430 Snap-on Jack mind you. I could have bought 3 and just toss when they break. When I was shopping I found most affordable where made over seas anyways. No way I am paying more than 300 for a jack with the spec I need.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-low-profile-steel-heavy-duty-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-61253.html

[WSSix]

Thanks for the jack info too, Vince.

I bought Lokar's brake cables a while ago but didn't install them since I was afraid the SFC's and or suspension choice would cause problems with any routing decision I made at the time. I also did not want to have the cables just cut across the underside of the car like factory did. So I'm looking at routing them in a clean manner. I've got some ideas. Luckily, I can go ahead and weld the connectors in completely and not cause any problems.

What I am curious about is, does anyone have any recommendations, based on experience, for routing the cables? For instance, even though the cable can bend all over the place since it's inside the housing/sheath, should I try to keep it as straight and direct to the brakes as possible? What about tightest bend radius? With the ideas I have swimming around in my head, the passenger side is going to be a pain compared to the driver's side. The driver's side is virtually a straight shot from pedal to brake. I'd like to keep the foot pedal brake I believe. Helps keep the console area clean.

Thanks

[onelapduster]

On my Duster the passenger side emergency brake cable is long enough to reach the connection point of the driver side. If you did something similar a small dual to single joint could be used.

[CURVES]

Take a look at DSE second gen projects for some good ideas on brake cables

[WSSix]

That's definitely part of the plan, Scott. They give me a lot of inspiration.

Thanks

[67goatman455]

Hell yea! yay for progress!!!!!!!!!

[SSLance]

I've had trouble getting my e-brake setup to work properly and steadily ever since I put my rear discs on. I'm going to finally fix it right here shortly.

I had mine working and then had to rotate my brake backing plates 180 degrees and that put the e-brake cable pointing to the rear instead of the front which in turn made my passenger side cable too short. After I ponied up another $60 to get a new one, it still took every inch of the housing to route it to the mounting plate that holds the other end of the housing. Finally got it all set and adjusted then the block I used to attach the lokar set to the stock cable started hanging up on a trans cross member bolt head.

I've figured out a way to move the plate that holds the cable adjusters on the pedal end so it won't get hung up anymore, just have to weld it onto my trans cross member.

What I do know is, my cables come out of my backing plates pointed to the rear, take a 180 and go up over the axles and head towards the front and they still work great...well as long as they don't get hung up on anything anyway.

Good work on the rest of the project, I know cutting into the floors was a big deal but I bet it ends up being worth it. Keep on posting pics of your progress.

[GregWeld]

Don't forget that the jack MOVES with the car going up (or down) and needs to have ROOM to move without falling off your cribs...










http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Garage%20and%20shop/EVEL026.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Garage%20and%20shop/EVEL026.jpg.html)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Just the thought of someone using it that way without stops makes my eye twitch.

[LS1-IROC]

Don't forget that the jack MOVES with the car going up (or down) and needs to have ROOM to move without falling off your cribs...

THIS!!!!

[NOT A TA]

OK, no need for anyone else to pile on.

The jack doesn't move with my system of jack platforms, cribs, etc. which I feel is a safer way to raise cars high and use cribs. I do it constantly on lots of cars.

I'll write a detailed explanation later when I have more time.

[WSSix]

I've had trouble getting my e-brake setup to work properly and steadily ever since I put my rear discs on. I'm going to finally fix it right here shortly.

I had mine working and then had to rotate my brake backing plates 180 degrees and that put the e-brake cable pointing to the rear instead of the front which in turn made my passenger side cable too short. After I ponied up another $60 to get a new one, it still took every inch of the housing to route it to the mounting plate that holds the other end of the housing. Finally got it all set and adjusted then the block I used to attach the lokar set to the stock cable started hanging up on a trans cross member bolt head.

I've figured out a way to move the plate that holds the cable adjusters on the pedal end so it won't get hung up anymore, just have to weld it onto my trans cross member.

What I do know is, my cables come out of my backing plates pointed to the rear, take a 180 and go up over the axles and head towards the front and they still work great...well as long as they don't get hung up on anything anyway.

Good work on the rest of the project, I know cutting into the floors was a big deal but I bet it ends up being worth it. Keep on posting pics of your progress.

Thanks, Lance. Good luck getting your setup working 100%. I'm glad it's working well for the most part though. That gives me hope that I'll be able to have mine working well and not just sitting there looking like it'll work.

I did email Lokar as well to ask them what the tightest bend radius is and if the number of bends it makes will affect the cables working properly. I got a reply back in less than 24 hours, awesome, and was told the tightest bend radius should be 10inches. Also,while it can bend and snake all over the place, less bends are better if possible. So we will see what happens with that part of the build when I get there. Since the connectors won't be interfering with the cables, I'll wait until I drop the rear suspension to get the cables laid out.

Thanks guys.

[waynieZ]

Looking Good !

[Ron in SoCal]

Way to step up Trey! I'm sure the usual suspects will sidetrack it...:lol:

[intocarss]

:innocent:

[ScottieB]

Long time no see Trey. Glad you are back at it.

[rustomatic]

Dude, you said "alliteration" in your first post. Take it from a guy with two English degrees: You're making good decisions here! Just keep on it, and try to work some iambic pentameter into your next post. I'm about to rip my Falcon apart for the umpteenth (no spell check error, according to Google Chrome) time...

On top of the idiotic English degrees, I've also had two Firebirds, a '68 (400) and a '73 (turd--it was brown, with a white vinyl top). I miss the '68...

Keith's stuff works, just like his car, which I've experienced (violently) as a passenger. Get it done!

[WSSix]

Thanks Rusto. I may have to try coming up with an iambic pentameter response one of these days.

As to today's progress, I've got the connectors welded in entirely. Ran out of gas right at the end too so I called it a day. I've got primer, paint, and seam sealer ready for tomorrow. No way am I going to do any painting with the Duc in the garage or near the garage for a few hours after I finish spraying. I'll start early tomorrow and get it sprayed. Might even get the brake and fuel lines remounted and drop the car off the cribbing. I want to drive it and get an alignment done since we requared the subframe before starting. I'm anxious to see how it feels.

On to the pictures. Don't look at the welds too much. They still suck. I also tried different techniques as I went. I was able to close up most of the gaps with just welding. Blew a few holes through the floor pans too. Learned how to close up said holes with just the welder too. Learning experiences what else can I say?

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001_zpsbd7953e0.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/003_zps0fdde7cb.jpg

[CURVES]

Good job Trey!

I'm doing the same job, got them fitted and ran out of gas also....
Always seems to happen on the weekend when the gas store is closed. :bang:

[WSSix]

Tell me about it. I had maybe two more spots to do a little welding on. I might still get to them though. The weather wasn't cooperating today and neither was the job. Got called at 3am with a job this morning so I was out with that all day. Haven't painted or primed anything and won't get to it today afterall. I'll see what tomorrow brings though.

Good luck, Scott.

Thanks

[WSSix]

Well, I got everything primed, sealed, and painted. The car is back on the ground now, too. I've driven it around and the car feels very solid compared to before. Bumps don't rattle the car and feel way more solid. I'm very happy in those regards. The only real indication of increased chassis stiffness I was able to "test" was when taking the car off the cribbing. The front driver's wheel was the last to come off. I had the jack set just behind the 2nd body mount. At the point where I had just enough room to get the cribbing slid out, the rear driver's wheel was already off the ground and the front passenger wheel was just slightly off the ground. That's way better than stock.

Here are the final pictures.

As you can see, you can barely see them
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zps6e9bec09.jpg

From behind looking forward they don't look out of place at all to me.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/009_zps0e8252b5.jpg

I'm really happy with the way I transitioned them into the factory rear rails. They look like they belong and that's what I was going for.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/007_zps69f4e787.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/005_zps2607062a.jpg


I'll need to get an alignment before I go forward with the suspension just to verify nothing is out of whack. Tried to do that today but they were busy. I double checked the squareness of the subframe before starting all this but I'm only human and not about to start cutting up the front suspension if there's a problem that needs to be corrected now.

Thanks

[fleetus macmullitz]

Way to step up Trey! I'm sure the usual suspects will sidetrack it...:lol:

Not enough hours in the day to derail every thread Ron. :hello:

It's just a service some of us provide to the members that need a lot of attention. :lol:


Congrats on the progress you've been able make Trey. :thumbsup:

I remember the 'shake, rattle and roll' in my '74 455 TA. :shakehead:

[WSSix]

Thanks, Skip. It might be a while yet before I can make any more progress but it's for a really good reason. We'll see though.

[Che70velle]

Trey, that turned out really nice. Great job!

[WSSix]

No idea how I missed it but thanks, Scott.

Well, I've got an appointment at the alignment shop for tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get away from work and get that taken care of because I am some what anxious to see if I can dial in the alignment. Yes, I measured and squared the frame before welding but I'm just anxious for some reason.

Aside from that progress nothing else will happen with the car for a couple more months at least, I believe. I'm finally moving back to Georgia! And, it's just in time for Caffeine and Octane on Aug 3! Can't have the car in pieces for the trip. I'd have to make two trips from Kansas to get everything myself. Instead of doing that though, I'm going to have the car brought over to me later. I'm hoping to have the car in Atlanta some time in August. We'll see though. If I made two trips, I wouldn't be able to do what I have planned which is go into Colorado on more time and ride the Duc around. I'm heading for Durango and Pagosa Springs this time. It'll be the last time I ride in Colorado for quite a while I'm sure. It'll also be the first time this year I've gotten the chance to go so I'm taking advantage of that.

Thanks

[efs69]

Good luck on the move. I havent been to Durango in a few years but I enjoyed it when I was there. Nothing like a good ride with some nice scenery. Keep the rubber side down.

[WSSix]

Just finished up with the alignment and had some questions. Here's what we were able to get the car to.

camber(l/r) -1.04*/-1.05*
caster(l/r) 2.05*/1.93*
toe(l/r) 0.14*/0.15* in, but it's degrees not inches

First, I have no idea what the toe degrees equates to in inches. Anyone know?

In order to achieve these numbers, the right(passenger) side needed a normal amount of shims. There's plenty of room for more shims in there. The left(driver) side is maxed out with shims front and rear. All the bushings are newer and good. Is this a problem? I ask because I'll be doing Custom Works coil overs and Speed Tech UCAs in the future and would prefer to address any issues before hand. I figure if I need to bend the frame mount in some, I can do that when I cut the shock mount portion out. I also wasn't sure if I should do this while doing the coil over conversion, or should I wait and get an alignment done after the new parts are in just in case the new parts can achieve the desired specs without changing the frame mounts.

I'll be emailing both Keith at Custom Works and Speed Tech before I do anything to ask their opinions but I wanted to ask here as well.

Thanks.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Just finished up with the alignment and had some questions. Here's what we were able to get the car to.

camber(l/r) -1.04*/-1.05*
caster(l/r) 2.05*/1.93*
toe(l/r) 0.14*/0.15* in, but it's degrees not inches

First, I have no idea what the toe degrees equates to in inches. Anyone know?

In order to achieve these numbers, the right(passenger) side needed a normal amount of shims. There's plenty of room for more shims in there. The left(driver) side is maxed out with shims front and rear. All the bushings are newer and good. Is this a problem? I ask because I'll be doing Custom Works coil overs and Speed Tech UCAs in the future and would prefer to address any issues before hand. I figure if I need to bend the frame mount in some, I can do that when I cut the shock mount portion out. I also wasn't sure if I should do this while doing the coil over conversion, or should I wait and get an alignment done after the new parts are in just in case the new parts can achieve the desired specs without changing the frame mounts.

I'll be emailing both Keith at Custom Works and Speed Tech before I do anything to ask their opinions but I wanted to ask here as well.

Thanks.


25" diam

1/32" = .07 degrees = 4.2 minutes
1/16" = .14 degrees = 8.5 minutes
3/32" = .21 degrees = 12.6 minutes
1/8" = .28 degrees = 16.8 minutes

[WSSix]

Thanks Vince! What's the 25 in diameter? Tire diameter?

[WSSix]

Did some more digging. The rolling diameter of the tire is the 25inches number. I'm guessing this is slightly less than full tire diameter given the weight on and flattening of the tire? That makes sense. From there it should just be simple trig calculations to achieve the degree to inches conversion.

[WSSix]

I finally have some stuff to update. After moving back to Georgia and starting a new job, I got myself situated and started working on the car fairly regularly. This stuff is just taking time. I've done a fair amount since the last update. I redid the fuel lines on the car, installed a parking brake, and upgraded the front and rear suspension. We'll start with the fuel system first.

When I put the LT1 in the car originally, I reused the factory fuel lines. Since I was a 403/auto I had fuel running down both sides of the car. I didn't like this and wanted to change it. I also wanted to use less flex line. I ended up making bulk heads front and rear and bending aluminum lines between them. I even put the fuel filter right in the middle of the car tucked up very close to the floor. It's well protected and easily accessed. The only thing I have left to do is to make a shield/cover for the front bulkhead connection. It's tucked up close to the floor and towards the inside of the car but I'm still afraid of the tire kicking something up and hitting the lines. Or, simply sand blasting them constantly. I painted all the lines black to hide them. Russell makes black aluminum lines but they cost $20 more than raw aluminum. It didn't cost me $20 to spray paint the lines.

Here are the pictures. Sorry it's so dark. I don't have the best lighting and was working on my back the whole time.


Front bulkhead
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/007_zps608d63c1.jpg

Rear frame rail kickup area
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpsed913004.jpg

Rear bulkhead
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/006_zps21148f73.jpg

Down the middle of the car with the fuel filter. I made a bracket/strap to hold the fuel filter too. It bolts to the subframe on top.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zps738a4500.jpg

[WSSix]

Next up is the parking brake. It took me forever to decide how I wanted to route this. I wanted them hidden as best as possible. I thought about running them down the outside driver's side like DSE tends to do, but that would have just caused me to fab and cut a lot more than I wanted to. What I decided on was to run the primary cable out the floor just like stock and tuck it up against the floor board on it's way to the top of the transmission tunnel where it meets up with the rear cables. There's plenty of room above the drive shaft for this. I used Lokar cables front and rear. I passed the rear cable through the rear frame rails. I got some thick walled steel tubing from McMaster Carr to make the pass through in the frame rail. To seal off the cable where it passes through the floor board, I made a simple steel plate along with some rubber gasket material behind it and bolted it to the floor. This should work well enough.

Rear frame rail pass through
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zps32e4617c.jpg

Another angle
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/006_zps5ac649dc.jpg

Here's where the front cable passes through from the pedal
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zps97358474.jpg

Where the cables come together in the tunnel. It's not as straight as I thought it would be but I was working on my back. It'll do though.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/009_zps6fe77763.jpg

So far, I'm not very happy with the cables at all. The parking brake simply won't hold the car. I'm investigating the parking brakes themselves, but I think it's cable related. I spent a lot of time adjusting the cables. The pedal would be nice and tight on the first press yet it still wouldn't hold the car. When released, the pedal also wouldn't spring all the way back. The next press of the pedal would be weak like the cables needed adjusting. So I'd adjust them and try again. I did this a number of times and it's not gotten any better. If anyone has a suggestion, I'm all ears. Otherwise, they have been a waste of well over $200.

[WSSix]

The fun stuff now. I got all my suspension parts from Keith at Custom Works. For the front I have his coil over conversion kit using Viking shocks and 650lb springs. I also put in his front subframe brace that goes under the radiator. I kept the stock LCAs but have gone with Speed Tech UCAs. Not the high clearance ones that require AFX spindles, just the factory replacement ones. I still need to get the front aligned and adjust the coil overs a touch.

I put the same shims I had with the factory arms back on as recommended by Speed Tech. The increased camber at basically the same ride height as before is tremendous. I had the stock arms at about 1* negative. The wheels are pushing 2* negative now. I'm actually a little worried I won't be able to bring the passenger side back out closer to 1/2-1* as Speed Tech recommends because of how few shims I have on that side. I've got my fingers crossed. We'll see what happens. I measured the UCA mounts before and after welding and they didn't move. This was discussed in another thread involving a second gen doing a similar coil over conversion. No idea if that's something that could occur but I measured anyway just to be safe.

OK dinner time. I'll finish this up later.

[Stovebolter]

The title commands attention for sure. Lol. That's a sweet machine. Always loved them!

David

[GregWeld]

Trey --- I've never had any of the aftermarket "e-brakes" work worth a damn. Wilwood... manual cable or the "E-Stopp" system... Ditto with Baer Brakes. They don't work on either of my hot rods - never worked on my Nomad either.

Wish I could offer you some better advice! Maybe someone else will chime in.

[WSSix]

The title commands attention for sure. Lol. That's a sweet machine. Always loved them!

David

Thanks David. The name of the car is completely tongue in cheek. My car doesn't come close to so many of the builds on here in terms of quality. I appreciate the compliment all the same.

Trey --- I've never had any of the aftermarket "e-brakes" work worth a damn. Wilwood... manual cable or the "E-Stopp" system... Ditto with Baer Brakes. They don't work on either of my hot rods - never worked on my Nomad either.

Wish I could offer you some better advice! Maybe someone else will chime in.

Greg, it's just the cables. That's what kind of ticks me off. I have C5 rear brakes with the factory parking brake inside the rotor. The setup came off a low mileage C5. They should be working but with the pedal changing its feel in between presses, I can't help but think something is weird with the cables. I'm going to look into it some more. Luckily, putting it in gear holds the car. Thanks.

[WSSix]

Ok, back from dinner.

On to the coil over conversion. It was pretty straight forward really. The directions provided weren't bad. Bigger pictures would have been nice but that's ok.

Here's before
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/016_zps3301f705.jpg

With everything cleaned and ready to weld. You'll need to cut out the inside of the spring pocket. I just took a cut off tool and went around the perimeter from the inside. If the tool uses 3" cutoff wheels, it should fit. I would also recommend only cutting the top of the UCA mount far enough back from the folded over portion that it leaves a straight edge. That way you have more of a lip remaining to weld to. The directions say 3/8" is what should be left and I don't feel that's enough.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zps02d98248.jpg

Mocked up and checking for fit and clearances before final welding.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/021_zps20c79dfe.jpg

All welded in place.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zps2258a829.jpg

Here are the tools I used to get everything cleaned so I could weld it all in place. Took a little bit of time but it wasn't bad. I used brake cleaner to clean the surfaces down too.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001_zps877f8374.jpg

If you use your factory LCAs, you'll need to reinforce them to hold the coil over. I bought some 3/16" steel plate and made a round part to weld into the bottom of the LCA.

Here's the part.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001_zps199b3d9b.jpg

All welded in place and ready to be cleaned and painted.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/005_zps01ec41c7.jpg

Everything back together and looking pretty.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/008_zpsb2b8109e.jpg

As you can see, it's a tight fit. I've moved the suspension through its range and it shouldn't hit. These pictures where taken with the suspension hanging. The coil over will move towards the outside as it compresses. I'll keep an eye on things though just to verify. You can always open the spring pocket up some more if this is too close in comfort for you. I'd be careful though as there's not a lot of room left.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/010_zps78cf171b.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zps329e6699.jpg

[WSSix]

I didn't take any pictures of the rear because it's just 225 lb monoleaf replacement springs with Viking double adjustable shocks. I did go with Keith's HD shackle kit which uses thick plates for the shackles which puts delrin bushings in the frame rail. I used his competition axle locator kit with a 2* wedge also. I went ahead and upgraded to 1/2" ubolts to hold it all together. Keith was able to supply those as well. It wasn't difficult to drill all those holes out to accept the larger ubolts either.

Here are the pictures.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/018_zpsecb8eee9.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/019_zpsb85094a4.jpg

This last one hopefully shows the increased camber on the front end. Remember, this is essentially only changing to UCAs that has caused this increase in camber. The other factors remained essentially the same.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/020_zpsfcd842ae.jpg

I'm going to have to give the rear some time to settle before I know if I'm happy with it or not. I really wanted the rear to come down some more and instead it went up at least an inch. I guess my stock springs were more worn out than I though. I'm building a street car mainly so looks matter. Unless an over riding factor presents itself, I'll be changing the rear suspension regardless of how well the monoleafs work if they don't settle low enough for me. One positive from being raised is I don't scrape the exhaust coming in and out of the drive way like I did.

Well, that brings everyone that cares up to date. I'll get out to drive it and adjust everything as time allows. I'm anxious to see how it will handle.

Thanks

[Ron in SoCal]

Great progress Trey. :thumbsup: Post up your driving impressions!

[intocarss]

Nice work :gitrdun:

[G4CERAT]

Never the less, I've enjoyed seeing your progress. I hope the rear does go lower but nice job on the stance anyway. So cool to see that year looking so much better...

[Rick D]

Looking great Trey, great to see it back together!!! Can't wait to hear how it drive now compared to before.

[jarhead]

looks great Trey!

[WSSix]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the comments. I'll be sure to post up how it all feels after I get some time with it. I'm honestly not sure where I'll even be able to get it aligned. That's going to be the first hurdle. I may consider getting the tools and doing it myself. Just not sure I want to spend the money. Decisions decisions.

[Payton King]

I did not go back and search it out, but it you are using the Lokar hand brake it will not hold. Not enough throw. Get one out of the salvage yard from any OEM car and it will work.

[WSSix]

Payton, I'm using the factory foot pedal and Lokar cables. It appears the cables are pulling far enough looking at the lever sticking out the backside of the backing plate. Could it be that it's not pulling hard enough though once it does reach its limit? Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks

[glassman]

Trey, what are you doing out back? 2g kit there too?

[Flash68]

Here are the pictures.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/018_zpsecb8eee9.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/019_zpsb85094a4.jpg



That's a great lookin car man. Keep truckin. :bigun2:

[WSSix]

Thanks Dave.

Mike, I have 225lb composite monoleaf springs with Viking double adjustable shocks.

[GregWeld]

Is it done yet?? LOL

[Payton King]

I had the wilwood's with the parking brake. Tried a number of different things and adjustments and it just did not hold that great, but I had the hand lever. I would think yours would hold. Put a spring on the E Brake pedal to pull it back if it is gone.

[WSSix]

No progress really to report. I do have my rear housing modified with 9in ends and the tubes welded after being squared. I just ordered some parts from Summit to fill the housing with.

I've also ordered new springs from Keith at Custom Works. The monoleafs ride and handle great but raised the car up. I want it to be lower. It's really that simple.

I do have a couple questions. Are ARP ring bolts worth it? Should I also upgrade my yoke to a 1350 size? Figure the engine will make 500hp/tq at the flywheel.

thanks

[WSSix]

Alright, I answered my own question on the yoke/u joints. In 76, GM switched to the 3R u joints front and rear. 3R stands for the Three Rivers plant that made the drive shafts. The official size of these is 1344. U joint sizes increase with number. So 1344 u joints are slightly smaller than 1350's. Meaning, switching to 1350's is a waste in most cases, especially mine, as it's barely larger.

Also, I found out that while Chrysler ring gear bolts are the same thread as GM. They use a smaller head. This is bad unless you use a washer as well. The bolt will back out. Best to use a correct GM or GM size bolt. Don't think I'll need ARP bolts but I'm getting ready to order my gears so we will see.

[woody80z28]

This is a nice build...first time I've looked through it.

I have the Lokar cables in my car and they work great. I'm trying to think of what might cause the problem. Seems the throw on the stock pedal should be good enough, but I am using a 4th gen handbrake for mine with Blazer rear disc (same style as C5). The Blazer ebrake shoe has an adjuster at the bottom, does the C5 have this also?

[WSSix]

Yes, the pads can be adjusted a little. I'm going to investigate the issue further when I build the new rear end. I should be assembling that next weekend. I really hope I can make it work as is. Putting a hand brake in doesn't work with my plans. Then again, plans can change.

Thanks Woody.

[WSSix]

Well, I've been working on the headers and the rear end on the car. The rear is painted and ready to start final assembly. I put the 3.90 gears and the Tru-Trac in a few weekends ago. I just have to pull the current rear and transfer the brakes over. I can't do that until later though. This works out pretty well since I really need to have the rear end out of the car to do the exhaust system.

The driver's side header is designed and tacked together. I want to wait until I have the passenger side completed before I do any final welding. I'm also thinking I may wait until I have the exhaust system tacked in place before I final weld. We'll see.

Here are some pictures of the header. I'm really happy with the design. For me, headers need to look good on the engine and have a good flow to their design versus just throwing them on there in whatever manner fits. All the primaries are between 29-32 inches basically. Ground clearance is great as it's only 1/2 half inch below the subframe rails. It's still one inch above the front subframe cross brace though. I'll get a picture showing that when done. This one slips in and out from underneath with ease. Spark plug clearance is better than what I had with this engine while it was in my 4th gen. I do have to make or buy a different spark plug tool to make number 7 easy to change. I can change the oil filter without getting oil all over the header as well. The number 5 primary is 1.5 inches away from the filter at its closest point. I am close to the floor pan and the lower control arm brace. I believe I'll be fine but I do intend to assemble the exhaust and drive it around to verify it works before having them coated. This has been a challenge but it's been fun.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/003_zpsqnxgp508.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpszjis2ubb.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001%202_zpsly5ip2xi.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002%202_zpszzxxfxvr.jpg

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to connect the primaries together with some pieces of flat steel where they are very close together or touching like the #5 and #7 primaries do?

I believe I will be able to make the passenger side look like the drive's side from the top. Underneath will be a different story since I have to dodge a starter and knock sensor. I was working on it last night and I'm confident I can make it work and get similar lengths. I won't know for sure until I try though. My other concern are the fuel lines and can I make it so the starter can be removed without taking the header off.

Stay tuned.

Thanks.

[GregWeld]

They look great Trey!

So is the plan to cut them out of the flange so you can weld the tubes where you can't get to the weld joint??

[WSSix]

Correct. I'll pull each primary off again in order to do the final welding. I think I'll spend some time welding up what I can easily reach while the header is assembled like this. I'm not sure how much I need to be concerned with anything warping or moving but I figure doing what I could while it's assembled should help mitigate that potential issue. I also have to check clearance between the primaries and bolts, install the merge bullets, O2 bungs, and the collector extensions. Those will add a few more inches to the length of the headers. There's a lot left to do but the design is hopefully complete.

Thanks

[GregWeld]

Trey -- EVERY weld warps and moves the metal around. Period. Manufacturers weld their stuff in jigs that hold the tubes.

I would - as you said - weld everything you can while they're still in the flange... and when you cut them out - I'd expect them to have "tension". But that should be okay because you should have room to re-install them one by one as they're not yet welded with the "star" at the ends. Tacking them up the way you've done will also help you hold position.

The most critical piece of the puzzle is welding the tubes to the flange... that flange can't be warped!

By the way -- check your header bolt clearances!! You may want to or have to dimple the tube at the flange to get the bolt to clear or to be able to actually get a wrench on the bolt head... don't forget about the washer (larger diameter sometimes than the bolt).

[SlowProgress]

Those look great. Building a set of headers has always been a bucket-list thing for me. I just never have been brave enough to try yet!

[jarhead]

Awesome job Trey !

[WSSix]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the responses.

Greg, the bolt clearance is definitely on the to do list yet. I've found that using allen head bolts and washers work best with SBC headers. You can shape the washer to sit up against the tube better versus using a flanged bolt. The other option that's worked for me are studs with nuts when there's not a lot of room to get the bolt and or socket into the area. For instance, the right side bolts at cylinder 1 and 5 will probably end up being studs. I did that with the headers I put on this engine while it was in my 4th gen Firebird and it worked great. Same thing with C2/3 vettes as some of them can be a bear to deal with when using larger tube diameter headers. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

[Panteracer]

Trey
Cool fab work on the headers
I need to get serious about raising mine
as they scrape a lot

Bob

[WSSix]

Thanks Bob. You may want to look into "shortening" your current ones. Woody on here has a 2nd gen Z28 running a SBC and he showed how to take an inch out of a pair of Hooker headers which gave similar clearance to what I did. That would have been a lot easier for me than making my own. I just wanted the challenge though. Maybe you could do something like that with your headers? Good luck! I know I hated scraping my headers when I had the 403 in there still.

[Panteracer]

Thanks Trey
We want to drop the car some
more up front... So need to look
hard at the headers. May even go
to some aftermarket cast iron ones

Bob

[WSSix]

I gotcha. I forgot that was an option for you.That may indeed be the best bet.

[SSLance]

Nice work on the headers...

That is one area that I see more complaints about than any other, header fitment. Best way to get them to fit right is build them yourself I guess.

[glassman]

So, how come no middies? too much hp loss? its what CustomWorks did on mine for maximum ground clearance, my frame rail is 4.25 from ff and the headers are now at 3.625, so bout 1/2 / 5/8 below the rail, and no scraping yet.

Ground clearance vs. hp, is that ultimately the question?

Btw, everything looks really good Trey, you gonna do the LT4 heads cam kit at some point? its a good deal, and great torque #'s....its what i was gonna do before i shot my wad on the LS (still no regrets :thumbsup: )

[WSSix]

I'd say you're right, Lance. These older cars can be a pain to get good headers on. The new cars are easy but not cheap for the good stuff.

Mike, when I mocked up the mid length headers, I had the same ground clearance essentially. I'm not so low that 1/4-1/2" lower than the rail is going to kill me. I decided that the long tubes would be best. The mufflers are a different story. I'm making my own because I can make them 1 inch thinner and that does matter. I'll get a ground clearance measurement when I finally get the car on the ground.

Factory LT4 heads aren't the cat's meow any more. What it comes down to are LT1 heads have more metal which allows a porter to have better control over the shape of the port. Not only that, but heads in the 195-200cc range are killer. They have come a long way in the last few years. You just don't hear about it since no one cares about LT engines any more it seems. Now, if you go with aftermarket LT4 type heads from say AFR, then you're dealing with a great head. The difference in price versus performance between using AFR and ported LT1's is too much for too little to me. I'm going to have Advanced Induction port my heads, intake, and throttle body for me. I should be a little over 400 ftlbs and hp at the wheels with a broad power band when I'm done. That's more than enough for me.

Thanks guys

[efs69]

Nice job on the headers Trey. I may have to go this route when I change the ride height.

[WSSix]

Thanks! Be prepared to spend a lot of time with it. I'm no where near done and have easily 30 hours in this one header to this point. I'm teaching myself a lot of skills along the way so I consider it worth it, but it's definitely not the cheap or quick route.

My other big concern is that they actually work. I think I'll be fine but man it would suck if these things cause a restriction. lol

[Zoomin]

Really nice work on the header Trey, but what led to the decision to fab them yourself?

[WSSix]

Thank you. Mainly, I just wanted to. Not sure I'm going to want to again though, lol. I still haven't finished the passenger side one. I've got some tighter radius bends on order that should be here this week. Then, I have to go out of town for work the following week. It might be a while before I can show the passenger side. It's been an even bigger challenge than the driver's side.

[Zoomin]

Nothing wrong with that. I admire people that can take on a challenge like that and come out on top.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

The 18' M-Parallel wheels looks awesome on the car!

[WSSix]

Thanks guys. I really like the rims as well. I went with them mainly out of budgetary constraints. Now, I doubt I'll change them anytime soon. I'm going to try fitting the rears on the front to see what it would take to get 9.5's on all four corners instead of the staggered widths I have now. I'm hoping it will work out. We'll see.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Enjoy reading about/seeing your build progress Trey. :thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Thanks, Skip. I appreciate it.

[WSSix]

Just a couple teaser shots. Design work is done. Final welding has started. Still along way to go considering all the grinding and leak testing I have to do. I'll get there eventually.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/012_zpsxsj0jbfe.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/018_zpsimpbalw8.jpg

[syborg tt]

Trey man is it looking good.

[WSSix]

Thank you, Marty. I'm a long way off from finished but I'm getting excited. I'm anxious to hear how it sounds and to verify ground clearance. It's taken me a long time to get the headers and exhaust done. I want to drive the car already. The weather has been so nice lately.

[Flash68]

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/012_zpsxsj0jbfe.jpg



That is a great looking clothes line. :peepwall:

Seriously, car looks bad ass man.

[Che70velle]

Coming along nicely Trey. Hope to see you on the road soon!

[WSSix]

Ha! Thanks Dave. I realized the clothes were there after I took the picture. The clothes are actually indicative of how long the car has been on the cribbing, and I've been working on the exhaust. The pile on the right is my long sleeve shirt and hoody that I was wearing when I started this project. I had a few weekends when I was out there with highs in the 40's. That was a while ago now. The clothes are washed and put away for the season now.

Thanks Scott.

[BigRedCamaro]

:D
Here's a short interlude to a picture I find cool. My ground wire caused the metal shavings to align along the magnetic field that's created due to the current running through the wire while welding.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/013_zps6c863709.jpg



That's really cool! And big props to you on the relief in the frame connector for the hard lines! Awesome attention to detail!

[WSSix]

Thanks. I really appreciate it. I got the idea from Vince at Mean St.

[Firebirdsteve]

Looking great!!!

[WSSix]

Thanks Steve. I should have an update soon. Well, I guess I should say soonish. Modifying a car never seems to go as planned.

[DFRESH]

Trey---it's great to see all the progress bro. Feels great I'm sure.

What are the plans for the car---driver/autocross/road course---etc?

D

[WSSix]

Thanks Doug. It does feel good even if it's moving slower than planned. The car is mainly just a driver and weekend canyon carver. I'd like to try out some HPDE schools since I have two great road courses very close and a few more great road courses not too far away. We'll see where I ultimately end up with it, but I want to enjoy driving it more than anything at this point.

[DFRESH]

Thanks Doug. It does feel good even if it's moving slower than planned. The car is mainly just a driver and weekend canyon carver. I'd like to try out some HPDE schools since I have two great road courses very close and a few more great road courses not too far away. We'll see where I ultimately end up with it, but I want to enjoy driving it more than anything at this point.

I can say, that after all these years with my car (it's been running nearly the entire time) the driving, specifically the road trips, have been the best part of having the car. There's been nothing as cool as a 400 mile trip up the coast to a GG event with all the guys, running the autocross, then driving home with everyone. For me, it's the part I still love the most. Road courses are fun as well, but driving the car still does it for me every time. We are headed out to the local Donut Shop hang out tomorrow morning here in So Cal--the drive there and the drive home are still what I look forward to the most. Keep in going once you have it running and enjoy as much as possible!

D

[WSSix]

Thanks Doug. I couldn't agree more.

[woody80z28]

Great job on the headers. Very cool - I'm impressed. The exhaust tucks up nicely too.

[WSSix]

Thanks Woody. I'm hoping to be done with the exhaust soon. I'm going to have to drive it before coating/painting the components because I'm really close at some places. I hope to not have any issues hitting the frame or floor when torquing the engine up but we will see. I figure it would be better to find this out now instead of ruining a new coating job.

[WSSix]

Started the car today for the first time in months. Couldn't run it for long since I didn't have the O2 sensors plugged in. I just really wanted to hear what the exhaust sounded like. It sounds weird, lol. It's quiet and deep. It's also smooth because of the x pipe. It has a straight through sound, almost like there aren't any mufflers, when I rev it which it should considering the mufflers are straight through. Hard to describe really what it sounds like. I think I'll like it though. I'd rather err on the side of quiet than loud. I hope to drive it this Sunday, but we will see. If the drive test goes well, the headers will come back out for coating. Then I can finally move on to getting the new rear in the car and having the rear springs de-arched a little.

Thanks

[Zoomin]

What mufflers are you using?

[WSSix]

Home made ones :D They are a straight through design with louvered through pipes. I laid down fiberglass mat first, then stuffed the muffler full of steel wool.

EDIT: Looks like I'm further behind than I thought on updates. I have some construction photos of the mufflers and exhaust system to post yet. I"ll get to it soon.

[Che70velle]

Trey, I'm appalled that you posted this without pictures...
and a sound clip....

[WSSix]

lol, the car is still sitting on the cribbing. The only difference between now and the last "teaser" shot is the exhaust is painted black. I was planning to take some pictures once it was sitting on the ground so I could accurately measure and show ground clearance. My sister does have this sweet little digital palm camera, too. I'll have to use it when I do get the car on the ground to take a video. It's rather quiet though. Might have to get the camera real close before you can hear anything.

[Zoomin]

Home made ones :D They are a straight through design with louvered through pipes. I laid down fiberglass mat first, then stuffed the muffler full of steel wool.

EDIT: Looks like I'm further behind than I thought on updates. I have some construction photos of the mufflers and exhaust system to post yet. I"ll get to it soon.

I'm pretty sure you're the first guy that I've met that's done that. Good for you!
:thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Well, I guess I need to do some catching up on this thread. These headers took me way longer and cost a whole lot more than I wanted them to. That's hot rodding though. Nothing to do but suck it up and push forward. I finally drove the car on Sunday. I love the sound. It doesn't sound like a SBC. It sounds way more exotic because the note is smooth and some what hollow/monotone. There's very little to no chop or rumble to the exhaust note. It's quiet until the loud pedal is pressed which is just what I was hoping for. :D

On to the pictures. I made my own mufflers before I realized I could actually buy similar size mufflers from both Spintech or Flowmaster. The design is a 3 inch thick muffler that's 2.5 inches straight through. I laid fiberglass down first and then stuffed steel wool all around the inside of the muffler before putting the top plate on. I got the idea to do it this way from looking at cut away pictures of Magnaflows and watching videos on youtube. Hopefully, it holds up well.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001_zpsltkkhvnt.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/006_zps8xslxrx6.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/007_zpsfamjozux.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/003_zpsvntuypws.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpsf30edcdo.jpg

[WSSix]

Here are the headers all freshly welded up. I gave up on trying to mig the tubes and just took them to Scotty Seals at Pro Chassis over in Hiram, GA. He routinely builds custom headers for blown mustangs so he knows what he's doing. He tigged them up for me and put the bullets on the ends of the pipes. I've installed them as you see them so I could make sure they do fit without hitting anything. I did end up having to take off the lower control arm brace on the driver's side. I'll come up with some other means to triangulate that piece probably when I pull the motor in the future.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/005_zpsq3ruqy90.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/009_zpsj9wrr7qd.jpg

I'm very happy with how they fit. Only 3 or 4 plugs are a pain to get to but I bought a shorty spark plug socket since I couldn't make my own that really helps make life easier. If you can find a spark plug socket that has the hex cut to the bottom of the socket, you can simply cut it down and drill out the center section to make shorty socket. The ceramic of the plug will stick through the socket after you drill it out.

All in all, these headers are easier to install than the headers I put on this engine when it was still in my 4th gen. Plug changes are easier too even with the hard ones. I can't get a decent picture of the passenger side since it's so tight in that area. Something I was able to pull off is the headers are mirror images of each other coming out of the cylinder heads. They obviously change drastically after that but from the top they look the same.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/025_zps3qumsoah.jpg

Ground clearance is great! I promise, the system is fully installed in this picture

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zpsyiujnitx.jpg

See? There are the mufflers. I painted everything black to hide it all away.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/013_zpslz2fcc08.jpg

Here's the collectors sitting up front and a view from the front. They are just under 4 inches off the ground, no lower than the oil pan, and above the front cross member still.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/017_zps9ujdof5s.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/024_zpsq5w0qxww.jpg

The mufflers are 5 inches off the ground now. I plan to lower the car in the rear some more. I should have the mufflers between 3.5 and 4 inches off the ground when done. I really hope that's plenty of clearance for me to get in and out of the driveway easily. Right now, it's a breeze getting in and out. I wish I had taken measurements before I cut the old system out, but I missed the reminder I had left myself. Oh well, I know it's more clearance. I just don't know how much.

I didn't get a good picture of it but I put v-band clamps in the system just after they turn up from the mufflers. I can easily drop the system off of the car in a few minutes. The exhaust is a slip fit with a band clamp at the collector. Best design I have ever used. I have no idea why companies still use flanges any more. I won't if I can ever help it.

Next is pulling the headers right back off to have them sand blasted and ceramic coated. I'll be going black to hide any fabrication marks. I'll also be getting the new rear in and getting the rear springs dearched. I really hope that doesn't take long. After that, who knows. I really need to get better seats and seat belts.

Thanks

[jarhead]

Really nice work Trey!

Joe

[Ron in SoCal]

Really nice work Trey!

Joe

Ditto! Cheers Trey,

[Panteracer]

Trey cool job
Wish I had that much clearance

Bob

[SSLance]

Heck yeah, nice work. Love how the whole system is tucked up safely away.

I want to hear a video of the exhaust...anyone else?

[glassman]

Sweet!! Means you can come down another inch FTW!!!

Headers look great.

[WSSix]

That's the plan, Mike. I was able to find a place that can de-arch the springs so I'll be dropping it in the rear soon. What are you ground clearance numbers with the Hooker headers?

I'm going to try to get a sound clip, Lance. Not sure how but we'll see. I failed to mention that I was able to get all the primaries to be close in length. If I remember correctly, the shortest is 27 to 28 inches and the longest is around 34 inches. That's between all tubes on both sides. They are all within four inches of each other per side though. There's also an x-pipe under the car. I started with a Pypes system without mufflers and then made it fit the car with my home made parts. I think this all contributes to the smooth note. I could be completely wrong though.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the kind words.

[Che70velle]

Trey, excellent work! Those look great. How much lead time do you need, when I'm ready to have you build me a set?
Looking forward to hearing sound clip!

[WSSix]

lol, you ready to be without your car for another 6 months? It's a challenge to do them right. I know I'm well over 100 hours into these. Granted, most of that was me simply not knowing what I'm doing. I can see myself building another set in the future, but it will be on a car that's in the build stages and not one that was driving and being upgraded like mine.

Thanks Scott

EDIT: C&O is this weekend. I'll drive the car this instead of ride the bike. Headers will come back out after the show.

[waynieZ]

Excellent Job!

[fleetus macmullitz]

Trey cool job
Wish I had that much clearance

Bob


fVq4_HhBK8Y

[WSSix]

nice!

Have you seen the real take off where the controllers are making fun of the Russian plane until things start to get serious? It's worth finding. Vodka Airlines is one of the comments they make.

[fleetus macmullitz]

nice!

Have you seen the real take off where the controllers are making fun of the Russian plane until things start to get serious? It's worth finding. Vodka Airlines is one of the comments they make.

Trey,

Haven't seen that one...

Btw- very cool how well those headers worked out. :thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Thanks, Skip!

ThoZNxy2JZk

[fleetus macmullitz]

That was one slo-mo takeoff Trey.

Your 'Bird>that bigg 'bird.


:D

[68Cuda]

Here are the tools I used to get everything cleaned so I could weld it all in place. Took a little bit of time but it wasn't bad. I used brake cleaner to clean the surfaces down too.


Be careful when cleaning and welding. Chlorinated brake cleaners when exposed to the welding arc can release Phosgene which can be fatal.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

[WSSix]

You're right, Michael. That's one of the reasons why I use the non-chlorinated stuff. Thanks!

[MX145]

Very nice work on the exhaust! :cheers:

[WSSix]

Thanks! I really need to update my thread. The exhaust is coated and done and the new rear end is in the car. I'm fighting a high speed vibration, too. Been driving the car a fair amount though. I'll get some pictures up soon.

[glassman]

Please do. I feel like i've known you for years, yet have hardly seen your car, and i'm not really sure you exist LOL .....(no pics :(

[WSSix]

lol, I've been sack about updating I know. I was really hoping to do more than just the exhaust and rear end this year so that was a bummer, but overall, I'm happy with what I've accomplished this year. Next will be interior work so I can just continue driving the car. I have to change seats so I can actually drive the car safely. I slide right out going around corners now. Good problem to have, right? I also figure it's time to replace the 36 year old seat belts. Thanks Mike.

[transam]

Lot of attention to detail, the headers look amazing!

[tobenk]

The car looks great Trey.. those headers turned out awesome.

[syborg tt]

Trey nice work on the headers and the exhaust the ground clearance is perfect.

Here are the headers all freshly welded up. I gave up on trying to mig the tubes and just took them to Scotty Seals at Pro Chassis over in Hiram, GA. He routinely builds custom headers for blown mustangs so he knows what he's doing. He tigged them up for me and put the bullets on the ends of the pipes. I've installed them as you see them so I could make sure they do fit without hitting anything. I did end up having to take off the lower control arm brace on the driver's side. I'll come up with some other means to triangulate that piece probably when I pull the motor in the future.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/005_zpsq3ruqy90.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/009_zpsj9wrr7qd.jpg

I'm very happy with how they fit. Only 3 or 4 plugs are a pain to get to but I bought a shorty spark plug socket since I couldn't make my own that really helps make life easier. If you can find a spark plug socket that has the hex cut to the bottom of the socket, you can simply cut it down and drill out the center section to make shorty socket. The ceramic of the plug will stick through the socket after you drill it out.

All in all, these headers are easier to install than the headers I put on this engine when it was still in my 4th gen. Plug changes are easier too even with the hard ones. I can't get a decent picture of the passenger side since it's so tight in that area. Something I was able to pull off is the headers are mirror images of each other coming out of the cylinder heads. They obviously change drastically after that but from the top they look the same.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/025_zps3qumsoah.jpg

Ground clearance is great! I promise, the system is fully installed in this picture

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/011_zpsyiujnitx.jpg

See? There are the mufflers. I painted everything black to hide it all away.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/013_zpslz2fcc08.jpg

Here's the collectors sitting up front and a view from the front. They are just under 4 inches off the ground, no lower than the oil pan, and above the front cross member still.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/017_zps9ujdof5s.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/024_zpsq5w0qxww.jpg

The mufflers are 5 inches off the ground now. I plan to lower the car in the rear some more. I should have the mufflers between 3.5 and 4 inches off the ground when done. I really hope that's plenty of clearance for me to get in and out of the driveway easily. Right now, it's a breeze getting in and out. I wish I had taken measurements before I cut the old system out, but I missed the reminder I had left myself. Oh well, I know it's more clearance. I just don't know how much.

I didn't get a good picture of it but I put v-band clamps in the system just after they turn up from the mufflers. I can easily drop the system off of the car in a few minutes. The exhaust is a slip fit with a band clamp at the collector. Best design I have ever used. I have no idea why companies still use flanges any more. I won't if I can ever help it.

Next is pulling the headers right back off to have them sand blasted and ceramic coated. I'll be going black to hide any fabrication marks. I'll also be getting the new rear in and getting the rear springs dearched. I really hope that doesn't take long. After that, who knows. I really need to get better seats and seat belts.

Thanks

[WSSix]

Thanks everyone! I'll get the updates posted soon, I promise.

[waynieZ]

Wow Nice! Beautiful set of headers

[WSSix]

Well, I'm finally getting around to an update. I don't have a lot of pictures or much to report. I've been driving and enjoying the car as much as I can since it was on cribbing for most of the year it seems. I'm going to concentrate on odds and ends and interior for next year I believe. I think this will let me drive and enjoy the car more while still performing needed upgrades. I really need new seats and to have the seat belts redone. I'm pretty set on Recaros. It's just a matter of can I find vintage ones that can be rebuilt or do I just bite the bullet and get new ones.

Ok, onto the updates.

I had the headers coated in satin/flat black depending on who you ask. I like them this color. They do scratch easy and show the scratches so you have to be careful when putting them in and working around them. I taped them up when putting them in the car. I painted the entire exhaust system satin black from a rattle can. I didn't want to spend the money on coating since I knew it would be scratched over time.

One thing I did screw up with the headers is the flange. I put the flanges on upside down. I liked the look of them this way better and they fit the ports the same so I figured no big deal. Well, the gasket shows a lot more than normal. Oh well, I may put the gaskets in upside down one day if it ever really bothers me enough.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpsv0ok9xnm.jpg

The sound has started to already increase and rumble more from when I first finished the system. This is to be expected. It also works out a little better this way as I don't think the car has the traditional SBC rumble. It's smoother sounding than the typical alternating pulses from the engine. I was able to confirm my way of making the mufflers is just fine. I tore apart the can on my new motorcycle to shorten it and make it louder :D The insides where steel wool wrapped around the perforated pipe followed by fiberglass material just like I did the mufflers on the car.

Another area of the car I worked on was upgrading the rear end. Some of you may have found my thread where I talked about going with an odd ball setup. That's under the car and working well. I have Ford Torino tapered bearings on the end of my factory 8.5 10 bolt. I put a 30 spline TruTrac posi in there along with US Gear 3.90 ratio gears. The gears are quiet and you can really feel the posi working when taking turns. The Sumitomos don't have a chance now. 180k miles on the drive train, and I break 2nd gear loose. I'm happy! This is the 3rd or 4th rear end that I've set up that's been quiet. I'm waiting for my luck to run out one day in that area, lol. I finished up the rear end with a Moser cover that has the main bearing supports. It also has fill and drain holes which will come in handy.

An unexpected upgrade related to the rear end was to add Kore 3 rear brakes. I didn't want to spend forever trying to make the C5 kit I had on the car work with the new housing ends. So I called Tobin and he hooked me up with a kit and new flex lines for the rear. If you need a GM kit for a rear end that has Ford style bearings, you'll need to contact him. They have the kit. They just don't have it on the website. I now have Kore 3 front and rear. Quality was top notch just as you'd expect. I'm also happy to report I have a functioning parking brake. I'm really enjoying having it as a foot pedal, too.

I did my best to install the brake lines and flex lines in a compact, clean, and protected manner. I'm happy with how it all turned out.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/001_zpsomwarjbf.jpg

The last thing I did was to dearch the rear springs. I just couldn't stand how high it sat in the rear. I've brought the rear down about 1 inch and it looks so much better to me. Ground clearance is still great.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zps7fjokg6g.jpg

That's about it for now. Like I said I have a mixture of odds and ends to do for a while. I need to come up with a coolant overflow container. I want to replace the gas tank so I can stop smelling fuel. I have a high speed vibration I need to work on. I think I'll go ahead and replace the driveshaft now instead of waiting til I rebuild the transmission. I'm not sure if that is the source of the vibration but this will rule it out. A better one is needed any way. I have a better gauge panel already in my hands that looks way more professional than what I have in there now.

The seat install may get complicated depending on what I do to the floor to accept the seats. I may go ahead and change the transmission mount at the same time since I think it will combine with the seat mounts. I'm really looking at and liking how DSE has always incorporated the trans brace as a frame brace. I don't want to pull the transmission now in order to do this though. We'll see what happens. The transmission has to be rebuilt at some point, too. Scope creep! Suggestions on my seat/transmission brace idea?

Thanks for looking!

[GregWeld]

Really turning out nice Trey!!! Good for you!!

[Smitty68]

Looking good Trey! Are you looking at a tranny crossmember for your car? If so these guys build a great looking brace. They are built to fit headers/exhaust like what we decide to put in these cars. I'm very pleased with mine so far. They also have mounts you can get as well. Maybe this will help
http://www.crossmembers.com/shop/crossmembers-general-motors-body-camaro-firebird-trans-c-1_2_7.html

[glassman]

Way cool Trey!! I like keeping these cars over time and just improve them part by part overtime....It seems when tech on these cars become more advanced than what we started with, we simply upgrade (in time) to what we want. Definately makes it a fun hobby (at least for me)

Congrats and Cheers and Merry Christmas!!! ps, i'm waaaay overdue for an update...

[SSLance]

Glad you are getting to enjoy your car, that's why we spend so much time planning and working on them. Sounds like you are happy with the upgrades so far. I'm happy to report the torino tapered bearings I put in my 9" survived a full season of racing, appears to be a good choice for us so far.

What is the thought process on having one rear caliper in front of the axle and the other behind? Is it something about the mounting pad that only lets them mount one way?

I've had my calipers on both the back and front side of the axle but always both the same way. By moving mine forward I gained the room I needed to keep mine from smacking the frame. Only change I had to make was redoing the e-brake cables.

[Che70velle]

Glad your enjoying your car Trey, it looks and sits great! The headers are fantastic also!

[Panteracer]

Trey
Great news you are driving the car now
Love the stance and wish I had your ground
clearance


Bob

[fleetus macmullitz]

Good to see you're able to enjoy it now Trey. :thumbsup:

Nice thing about TA's is that they are a good starting point...imho.

(Your posts remind me how much I miss my Buccaneer red '74 455 TA...so thanks for that. :shakehead: )

lol

[trevor572]

Good to see you're able to enjoy it now Trey. :thumbsup:

Nice thing about TA's is that they are a good starting point...imho.

(Your posts remind me how much I miss my Buccaneer red '74 455 TA...so thanks for that. :shakehead: )

lol
I don't see the "pro tourism" thing working for you mate. Unless you see heading down the highway at 45 mph towing a big ass caravan with 20 cars bottled up behind you as being a good thing . LOL

[jarhead]

you're hard work is paying off, mods look great!

Joe

[WSSix]

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I do appreciate it.

smitty, I'm looking at building my own transmission crossmember. It will run through the floor like the subframe connectors so that it also reinforces everything.

Mike, hurry up and post your updates before you get too sidetracked with the p-car.

Lance, I have staggered shocks so I have to have staggered calipers as well. I made some changes to the Kore 3 kit though and have both my parking brake cables pulling towards the front. Normally, with the Kore 3 kit the cables would be staggered as well. I had already run my cables with the old kit I had on the car, which also pulled forward on both sides, and really didn't want to change that around. That's why I made the changes to the Kore 3 kit. The cable barely clears the shock on the passenger side.

skip, you should get an SD455 before the prices become even more ridiculous than they are now. There's a gorgeous gold Formula 455 that shows up at a local car gathering every month. The car looks like it was just restored. It's mint. It's amazing to look at. You need to get yourself another 2nd gen, lol.

Thanks!

[WSSix]

Woops. I had no idea it had been so long since I did an update.

I haven't done much honestly. Been busy doing other stuff. I do have a pair of older Recaros for the car now. They feel great compared to the stock seats. I can actually stay in place when going around a corner now.

I took advantage of Schwartz's discount on Tanks Inc tanks and purchased one of their EFI tanks. I welded a bulk head on the side of the tank which allowed me to run hard lines from the pump around to the side. From there, I just have a couple small flex sections to connect over to the frame of the car. I powder coated the tank flat black to hide it away as well. So far, it's working just fine. I haven't put any miles on it really though.

I got my cylinder heads and intake back from Advanced Induction a couple weeks ago. I hate having to hide those pieces away as they are gorgeous. I went ahead and bought their entire top end kit. So I'll be running a 234/242 110+6 cam in my 383. The bottom end will get built in a few more months. At least that's the plan anyway.

The big news is I have a damaged clutch. It's been making noise. I was hoping it would last until I built the engine. It just went out today as I was pulling back into the neighborhood. So the car is now sitting back on the cribbing. I'll start pulling the transmission soon. I figure I might as well go ahead and build the transmission, too. It has 180k miles on it and needs to be rebuilt as well as upgraded to handle the new engine. Any suggestions on who I should get my part from is appreciated. I was thinking I would check with Tick Performance and The Gear Box but am open to other suggestions.

I finally decided to also get off my butt and start spending some of this money I have been saving to build the car. That's honestly been a big reason this build has taken so long. I just didn't want to spend the money I intentionally saved for the project. Sounds weird I know but I've never been able to spend money like this before. I'm having to get accustomed to the idea that it's ok and I can afford it.

That's it for now. Thanks.

[1968 GTO Resto-Mod]

great to see an update, trey. bummer about the clutch.
i can relate to the money worries...
it must be one of the more challenging aspects of projects like this- building a car is one thing and paying for it is something completely different.
but if you've got the cash saved up i encourage you to make it rain, buddy!
:G-Dub:

best of luck moving forward!
danny

[WSSix]

Thanks Danny. I appreciate it.

[SSLance]

What kind of noise is the clutch making? You still run the LT1 style clutch right?

I ask because my clutch is noisy as well, especially when the pedal is out and trans in neutral. I've decided it is the throw out bearing wobbling back and forth and hitting the clutch fork and decided to live with it. :D

[WSSix]

The fork is rubbing up against the pressure plate. I also have no hydraulic control over the fork. The pedal is stiff and won't move. I'm going to investigate the hydraulics a little before I pull the trans. However, the fork has been rubbing against the pressure plate for a while. It even did that when I had the engine still in the Formula if I pressed the clutch too far. It went away when I put everything back together and into the TA. It recently came back and was worse than before.

You still liking your clutch, Lance? I'm not sure which direction I'm going yet. I have a Fidanza flywheel now, too. Not sure if I should keep it or go with a billet steel unit. Right now, the car was driving well since I put the 3.90s in the rear. I'm leaning to keep the Fidanza since it does rev well.

[SSLance]

I bet dollars to doughnuts the bolt holding the fork in place has worked loose. Happened to me twice before I blue lock-tighted the crap out of it, been good ever since.

So far so good with my new Mcleod street extreme clutch. I had worries about it at the last event as the engine was over revving on corner exits just like a clutch slipping, but upon video review, it was the posi slipping and spinning just right rear tire instead of both of them.

[WSSix]

Thanks Lance. It might be the fork pivot. The fork is very loose even when connected to the throwout bearing. I'll get under there tonight with the flashlight and see how it looks inside.

[SSLance]

Here is mine when it loosened up the second time

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Vd8_P6bbe-s/VAstd_swatI/AAAAAAAAQWo/TT50X_wfbfE/w999-h563-no/IMG_20140906_105119_876.jpg

And after I douched it with locktite and reintalled

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0L8kWDWd_Ro/VAtbzNP9g4I/AAAAAAAAQXQ/5ejQPV8NccA/w999-h563-no/IMG_20140906_140852_114.jpg

You can see this view when you take the slave cylinder off. I initially had to shorten the pivot block when I installed the Ram clutch and I noticed after looking at these pics that I also should have shortened the bolt itself. In the bottom pic the bolt is bottomed out but the block isn't quite up against the trans itself. I have ran it like this for almost two years though, didn't even take it loose when I put the Mcleod clutch in this winter.

[WSSix]

After pulling the transmission I found that my throw out bearing had come apart. Clutch is a Luk replacement. I'm using a Fidanza flywheel if that matters. I've got 50k miles on this setup easily. Looks like the flange that rests against and is pushed by the fork sheared off the center section. Any ideas why or how? Just thinking there might be some other cause besides a failed throw out bearing.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/20160624_181017_zpstyg9pnok.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/20160624_180951_zps2oj599h4.jpg


Also, it looks like my fork was contacting the pressure plate. I'm guessing this may be a result of the throw out bearing starting to fail before it finally let loose.

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/20160624_181102_zpsfacdxmkv.jpg

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/20160624_181122_zpsljpyszg1.jpg

Thanks

[glassman]

What are you going back in with? (may have missed it if you already said)

I have an LS7 Luk in mine, so far soo good (although i went through a pplate already, the springs aren't apparently good and don't retrack at sustained 6500rpm, front stretch at Thunder hill.....

[WSSix]

Once the new engine is in, I'm not sure. I'm eyeing the Center Force clutches that are offered for the LT1 T56 though. Lance is having good results with his. I have no factory alternatives available since the LS clutch don't work the same way as the LT clutches.

With this current adventure, I think I'm just going to replace the throw out bearing and put the transmission back in. Center Force also make a replacement bearing which isn't easy to find. I wasn't prepared to rebuild the transmission now. I'll start gathering the parts though so I can get to it this fall/winter when I pull everything again. At least that's the plan as of now.

Thanks Mike

[Centerforce]

Once the new engine is in, I'm not sure. I'm eyeing the Center Force clutches that are offered for the LT1 T56 though. Lance is having good results with his. I have no factory alternatives available since the LS clutch don't work the same way as the LT clutches.

With this current adventure, I think I'm just going to replace the throw out bearing and put the transmission back in. Center Force also make a replacement bearing which isn't easy to find. I wasn't prepared to rebuild the transmission now. I'll start gathering the parts though so I can get to it this fall/winter when I pull everything again. At least that's the plan as of now.

Thanks Mike

If you have any questions when you're ready to do the clutch, feel free to shoot us a call or PM!

[WSSix]

Will do. Thank you.I hope to be putting in the throwout bearing that I got from you guys in tomorrow or Sunday.

[Doug1]

Have you considered a hydraulic setup like this...


http://americanpowertrain.com/c-320536-shop-by-make-gm-hydraulic-clutch-systems-lt-1-t56.html


I have a factory setup sent to me by mistake. Here is pic of that deal..
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/dcamburn/1979%20Trans%20Am%20-%20Blue/D983D2A8-423B-4D94-8BD8-B46A63193A68_zpsw4wxjkrj.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/dcamburn/1979%20Trans%20Am%20-%20Blue/57BC1DB3-5D5D-4A1A-BCFC-0C292BA25DF6_zpsdxiusxgq.jpg

[Centerforce]

Will do. Thank you.I hope to be putting in the throwout bearing that I got from you guys in tomorrow or Sunday.

Great! Let us know how it works for you!

[WSSix]

Interesting, Doug. I had no idea a hydraulic setup similar to the LS T56 was available for the LT T56s. I'm going to stick with the factory style for now because aside from this issue, I've not had a problem with it. We'll see what tomorrow holds.

Thanks!

[allenm]

could you give me your opinion of the pro-g braces in your car. impact on handling improvements. has the braces created any structural problems at the contact points on the firewall. did you brace behind the firewall at the contact points. great read on your project and thumbs up for constantly making improvements to this great marque...allen

[WSSix]

Hi Allen. The braces work very well at stiffening the car. I can't comment on any impact on handling as I didn't push the car hard with the braces on and I did the subframe connectors shortly there after. I'm very pleased with the overall combination of the g braces and the subframe connectors. Rattles and creeks have been minimized. The car doesn't feel as loose and flexible as it was prior to their installation. I can put a finger between the t top and the windshield cowl and not be pinched going around corners or hitting bumps like I used to.

I did not reinforce any part of the car for the g braces. I may in the future when I do body work. I know that's topic of discussion with these parts. I also know a lot of people have used these type braces for years without issues to the firewall and didn't reinforce anything.

I say do it for sure. Good luck and thanks!

[NOT A TA]

During the past couple years I've been designing, testing, and producing various parts for 2nd gens including reinforcements for sub frames and use with the PTFB G-braces. I've been selling them to members on the various forums and decided earlier this year to form a company called Laboratory Fourteen "Lab-14".

While folks have used various triangulation braces to the upper cowl on the street for many years without any noticeable detrimental effects to the cowl there have been people who use their cars for auto sports who have experienced damage from constant flexing and the shear forces.

The pinch welded sheet metal where they attach at the top of the firewall flexes pretty easily and you can literally bend it with your hands if you grab the ledge and apply pressure like you are trying to break a pencil with your thumbs. I've tested several configurations for cowl support in conjunction with the use of the PTFB Pro G-braces.

Trey, Doug has a bunch of my products and will probably show them in his project thread here when he gets to it.

Shown below in the first pic is the kit I sell for upper cowl reinforcement when installing Pro G-Braces without any other upper lateral triangulation. The larger plates sandwich the pinch weld ledge on the drivers side and narrower ones on the passengers. The different sizes are necessary because of the recess for the wiper motor which allows more leverage for the G-Brace to flex that area. The reason the plates are wide is because the G-Braces mount almost centered on the large openings on the top of the cowl which allows more flex of the vertical part of the firewall. With the wide plates forces are spread out to the horizontal sheet metal on the top of the cowl.

I also have upper and lower control arm mount reinforcements, UCA mounting studs by ARP, sway bar mounts, and adjustable UCA mounting stud supports as well as various other structural reinforcements for both the early and later style stock 2nd gen sub frames.

The lower pics were taken during sub frame deflection testing of various combinations of Pro G-Braces and reinforcements.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160824_114659_zpsodwmrxhx.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160824_114659_zpsodwmrxhx.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160622_183527_zpsjgrgdr4x.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160622_183527_zpsjgrgdr4x.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160622_203819_zpsqb6z0bkf.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160622_203819_zpsqb6z0bkf.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160622_191905_zps3siwdgab.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160622_191905_zps3siwdgab.jpg.html)

[WSSix]

That's awesome, John! Thanks for replying with the information. Do you have a website? I see the adjustable UCA supports. I'm interested in the other supports for the control arms both upper and lower. Can you share the results of your deflection testing?

I agree that a more race oriented car would flex the upper cowl from the triangulation bars. The forces put on a car during hard driving with sticky tires etc is so much greater than what a normal street car experiences. When I go to do my body, I was planning to make changes and add more support just because. I doubt I'd ever need it but while the body is in pieces, why not?

[jarhead]

WOW that would be awesome Trey! Going to go for it?

[NOT A TA]

That's awesome, John! Thanks for replying with the information. Do you have a website? I see the adjustable UCA supports. I'm interested in the other supports for the control arms both upper and lower. Can you share the results of your deflection testing?

I agree that a more race oriented car would flex the upper cowl from the triangulation bars. The forces put on a car during hard driving with sticky tires etc is so much greater than what a normal street car experiences. When I go to do my body, I was planning to make changes and add more support just because. I doubt I'd ever need it but while the body is in pieces, why not?

Thanks!

I don't have a website yet. When I figure out how to create one it'll be at lab-14.com and until then I'll continue to take orders through PMs etc. or by phone and take paypal or checks for payments. Hopefully I'll find the time to learn website set up soon.

The deflection testing I did can't really be compared to anything because I have a unique setup and the testing method can only be used to compare changes under the same conditions. So I'll give a bit of background and then discuss the tests I made. I am not done and will test other things as well.

1st, I'm using a modified 80 sub frame in my 70 bird. To do so required relocating the rear body mounts and I decided to strengthen the rear section of the sub frame by boxing it at the same time. In addition to boxing the outside, small plates were welded to the inside so that solid body mounts would sit flat further strengthening it. So deformation of the section of the frame at the rear body mount has been minimized. The cowl area body mounts on the sub frame were also reinforced with thick metal plates to reduce flex and distortion. I sell the cowl body mount reinforcements also. pics below

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/016_zps1fk3myfh.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/016_zps1fk3myfh.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/007_zpso9fbsv5p.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/007_zpso9fbsv5p.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/014_zpsnlzvpjs4.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/014_zpsnlzvpjs4.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/001_zpsgfkhhrpb.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/001_zpsgfkhhrpb.jpg.html)

In addition to the body mount modifications the upper control arm mounts have been modified with an additional steel plate welded on as well as using ARP studs with a wider splined area to keep the stud more stable. While the UCA modifications don't change the subframe deflection without the G-Braces they could (or do) affect the results when the G-Braces are in place. Plates are made for right/left UCA mounts and come with hardware to align for welding etc. as well as optional ARP studs. pics below

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160615_194443_zpsqjfxs3fn.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160615_194443_zpsqjfxs3fn.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/003%20-%20Copy_zpsukt0dkgz.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/003%20-%20Copy_zpsukt0dkgz.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/002_zpshozi0tbe.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/002_zpshozi0tbe.jpg.html)

My deflection test was conducted under static conditions without the engine, front suspension, steering, etc in place and no sheet metal as seen in the previous post pics. The cowl and front section of the passengers compartment was filled with 400-500 lbs of weight. A piece of right angle stock was bolted to the body pinch weld at the lower cowl extending forward to the frame horns where an indicator was bolted to the front of the frame horn as seen in the pic in my previous post. PTFB solid body mount bushings were used torqued to 100 lbs and no frame connectors were used. A floor jack was used to lift the frame at the front of the frame rails with a 4 X 4 across the horns.

Without G-Braces the frame deflected over 3/4" before the body lifted off of the cribs I had holding it up.

With Pro G-Braces which were not preloaded (and no additional braces or reinforcements other than the ARP studs and welded UCA plates) deflection was reduced almost 1/2".

Adding upper cowl reinforcement plates sandwiching the ledge reduced deflection another 1/8"+.

Adding the adjustable lower braces for the upper control arm cross shaft mounting bolt/stud did not change anything. I really didn't expect them to because their job is to prevent wobble of the UCA mounting stud during high loads when the shocks are compressed or when on the throttle lifting the front end.

I did not test the additional triangulation braces that mount to the upper cowl because they're one of's and not something I'm currently selling. Also they're main functional is to reduce twisting during lateral loads which I'll be testing later on.

So the results were that the G-Braces combined with my reinforcements reduced the deflection (under the given conditions) to about 1/16- 3 /32. Using a couple tram gauges I determined that the deflection remaining wasn't forward of the cowl body mounts but was the floor of the body deflecting down at the rear body mounts.

Things to consider:

The testing I did was only to test vertical deflection. I did not test for reductions in the twist of the sub frame, maybe next time.

Vertical deflection of the sub frame occurs both upward and downward so my measured deflection and reductions may actually only be 1/2 (+ or -) of the total movement possible. Without putting the body on a frame rack I don't know if the same force up or down flexes the frame an equal amount in each direction.

The front end sheet metal provides additional support that was not there during my test. The upper inner fender of a 2nd gen is made like a frame rail and probably reduces deflection to some degree through the core support when solid body mounts are used.

I will conduct more tests when the car is assembled and frame connectors are installed. Also I'm sure I'm forgetting something as I did the tests a while back so if there's any questions fire away!

Long post and time for me to sleep. I'll write a post about lower control arm mount reinforcements tomorrow.

[Doug1]

I plan on getting to some of this starting this weekend. Haven't been able to touch the car for weeks due to work so I finally have 2 days off in a row!

I'll post up some of the pics.

[Panteracer]

So I see the upper control arm supports that weld in
but do not see the pieces that are running forward to the frame
Been running the g-braces for a few years and like the idea of going
farther down to the frame.. is that something you also sell lab 14?

Also interested in the lower supports.. look forward to your next post
as I have been told they really flex by a few others

G-braces seem to be one of the most noticeable thing I ever did
to bracing my car.... even more than the subframe connectors
They seem to make the front end more precise to me

Bob

[WSSix]

Thanks for the excellent write up John. I appreciate your efforts and responses. I wish I had done some of the simple things you did to your subframe before I welded my connectors into the car. I believe there are a lot of little things that can be done to these cars to really make them better street cars without going to a full race cage.

Bob, more precise a good way to put it. I agree with that assessment. I feel like the car actually turns immediately when I turn the wheel. That I did notice before I did the suspension on the car. Also, if you look in pictures three and four you can see the UCA braces. Look at picture four especially. Look at the Gen II sticker on the UCA, right to the left is a turn buckle. That's the UCA support that run forward to the frame.

Joe, I'm not following. Are you referring to the additional supports? If so, then eventually, yes. My body needs attending to. It's in very good condition for the year considering just how bad these cars can get easily. However, I still have plenty to do. I have to find a balance between enjoying the car and working on it. Right now, I'm trying to tip the scales more to enjoying the car. That means I'll do the body work some day but not any time soon. Eventually, I'll also do a transmission brace that goes through the body like my subframe connectors do. That's how DSE does it and I think it creates a good look even if mainly hidden.

Good luck, Doug.

[jarhead]

Gotcha :thumbsup:

[NOT A TA]

So I see the upper control arm supports that weld in
but do not see the pieces that are running forward to the frame
Been running the g-braces for a few years and like the idea of going
farther down to the frame.. is that something you also sell lab 14?

Also interested in the lower supports.. look forward to your next post
as I have been told they really flex by a few others

G-braces seem to be one of the most noticeable thing I ever did
to bracing my car.... even more than the subframe connectors
They seem to make the front end more precise to me

Bob

I believe part of the "more precise" feel after G-Brace install is due to the braces limiting twisting of the sub frame. I haven't tested that aspect yet but will eventually. Just need to decide on a good method of quantifying changes.

The plates that get welded to the upper control arm mount are for guys sticking with traditional coil spring/shock set ups. Those switching over to coilovers usually don't need the plates because they're welding supports on the outside. The plates provide a thicker section for a larger splined section for the upper control arm cross shaft studs or bolts.

The original upper control arm cross shaft mounting studs were only receiving compression and tension forces the way the factory engineers designed them. The addition of G-Brace type products forces the mounting stud to accept shear forces that try to wiggle the stud. With todays aftermarket suspensions and agressive -camber settings for auto-X and track use the point where the G-Brace attaches is spaced away from the UCA mount with shims and the cross shaft giving the shear forces leverage. The G-brace is exerting lot of side force when hitting bumps and standing on the throttle. The original design wasn't made to withstand the constant attempts to wiggle the cross shaft mounting stud.

So with the base of the cross shaft mounting stud more solid I designed adjustable supports for the stud that mount to the inside angled down to the frame horns on the same angle that force from the G-Brace is either pushing or pulling the stud. So the G-Brace is sandwiched between the immovable UCA mount and a preloaded adjustable support greatly reducing the possibility of the UCA shaft mounting stud or bolt from being able to flex or wiggle due to the shear forces.

Top pic below is a pair of the adjustable supports from the current batch. They're a bit different than the ones on my car shown in the other pics to make installation easier, allow clearance for more applications of aftermarket control arms, and to be prettier on the side that can be seen when looking under the hood. Functionally they perform the same.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160825_231105_zpsmd2nxial.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160825_231105_zpsmd2nxial.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160626_142656_zpshgfkewep.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160626_142656_zpshgfkewep.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160626_142642_zpstdzwljrw.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160626_142642_zpstdzwljrw.jpg.html)

[NOT A TA]

So, moving on to the lower control arm mounts.

The GM engineers really dropped the ball. They must have known about the issues that affected the 1st gens yet they continued to use the poor design another 11 years through the 2nd gen run. The lateral forces affecting the lower control arm were transferred to the edge of the sheet metal frame. That's a lot of force on the thin edge. Compounding that, while one side had the support offered by the shoulder of the bolt that actually fit the hole the other side had the threads of the bolt contacting the edge of the frame. So the forces were transmitted through the tip of the threads to the thin edge of the frame, not good.

So even on a daily driver that got bumped into parking blocks on a regular basis the force ovals the holes in the frame where the LCA attached. The rear most hole in the brackets welded to the frame is usually the worst. I've repaired lots of these.

You can see in the pic below the poor design.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/001_zpscfb6fda1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/001_zpscfb6fda1.jpg.html)

Early 2nd gens used the smaller 1/2" bolt shown below while the late 2nd gens used the 14mm shown next to it. Mid 73-78 used 9/16" and most aftermarket stuff I've dealt with is 9/16".

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/006_zps35680ae1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/006_zps35680ae1.jpg.html)

I put together kits with various modified washers and bolts that get welded to the frame. This spreads the load, reduces frame flex and allows transfer of the forces through the shouldered section of the bolt on both sides of each mounting point to a wider edge than the original frame. The kits are kind of on a case by case basis depending on welder available, which version of sub frame, what aftermarket equipment is being used etc.

Ya I know what you're thinking. You could hunt around for the correct bolts, distorted thread locking nuts, and other hardware and then make patterns, cut, grind, drill, etc. but it's easier and cheaper to just buy a kit from me. Yes, it's cheaper. You can't get everything from one place that I'm aware of and you can't get some of the items in the quantities you want. When you figure the items purchased you don't need, shipping for items you can't find locally, gas to drive around to local places searching, and so on, it ends up costing more than I sell the stuff for. AND, I've already modified things to match certain frames and fit snug on quality hardware. I know this because that's what I went through trying to do my car in the beginning and I'm thinking your time is free, if you put a value on your time it's even more of a deal to just buy a kit.

Here's some of the types of hardware that come in a LCA mount reinforcement kit.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Lab%2014%20products/20160826_001844_zpsgvduko5a.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Lab%2014%20products/20160826_001844_zpsgvduko5a.jpg.html)

Once the pieces are welded to the frame they look like this.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/007_zpstmkhizah.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/007_zpstmkhizah.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/002_zpspn78b2na.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/002_zpspn78b2na.jpg.html)

[Panteracer]

John,
Pm sent wanting some of your items
Don't make the car too pretty.. you may
never want to race it again :)

Bob

[NOT A TA]

John,
Pm sent wanting some of your items
Don't make the car too pretty.. you may
never want to race it again :)

Bob

Good talking to ya Bob. Here's the pic I said I'd put up of the worst LCA mount I've had to fix so far that wasn't caused by rust.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/pauls%20TA/20160716_152804_zpsgfv5bcbd.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/pauls%20TA/20160716_152804_zpsgfv5bcbd.jpg.html)

[WSSix]

wow! That's pretty bad.

[NOT A TA]

wow! That's pretty bad.

Aggressive driving with 275 40 17 300 tread wear front tires. Gotta remember when the frame and suspension for these cars was designed in the late 60's radial tires weren't even offered yet. The tires we're running now offer sooo much more grip than the standard 6" wide or optional 7" bias ply tires offered in the early 70's. My 70 bird left the factory with 6" wide E78 14 bias ply tires with a fairly hard rubber compound and 45 years later I'm running 18" 285/295 DOT R radials almost a foot wide with a 40 tread wear. That puts a lot more force into the LCA mount cornering above the point the original tires would have lost grip and started sliding.

When Pontiac started putting the "radial tuned suspension" badge on the gauge panel they hadn't changed the basic suspension geometry, just altered spring and sway bar specs a bit to work better with 7" radial tires.

Increased braking ability with our combined aftermarket brakes and tires also far exceeds the original cars capabilities before skidding and puts force on the LCA mounts in the same manner as bumping into parking blocks.

[WSSix]

Very true and something for people to remember as the push the performance of these cars further and further.

[rixtrix1]

Read through your whole thread tonight. Very nice work on the car. Since you are still running leaf springs on the rear, have you cut out the top of the front spring hanger brackets to allow you to raise the front spring eye holes to help add some anti-dive to the rear suspension? Herb Adams recommended this decades ago when he offered the firewall braces like you have now. You will need to reshim the pinion angle afterwards, but that is a minor thing compared to what you have already done. I didn't notice your having done this so far, but it made a noticeable difference in handling in my car back then( not the ones in my sig.).

[WSSix]

Thanks for the kind words, Ric. Yes, I did the Herb Adams mod. I actually did it long ago before this latest round of updates. I have no idea if it made an improvement, but I like the way the car handles currently. I've been busy in other areas of life and with working on a friend's 69 Mustang. I hope to be making updates and further advancement on this project soon.

Thank you

[Gscherer78ta]

Read through your whole thread tonight. Very nice work on the car. Since you are still running leaf springs on the rear, have you cut out the top of the front spring hanger brackets to allow you to raise the front spring eye holes to help add some anti-dive to the rear suspension? Herb Adams recommended this decades ago when he offered the firewall braces like you have now. You will need to reshim the pinion angle afterwards, but that is a minor thing compared to what you have already done. I didn't notice your having done this so far, but it made a noticeable difference in handling in my car back then( not the ones in my sig.).

Can you provide a link for this mod, or go through a more detailed explanation?
I've not heard of this mod and what I'm picturing in my head doesn't make any sense to me.

Sorry for the high jack OP

[WSSix]

No worries, Greg. The mod is simple. You remove the front leaf spring pocket off the car or spring, then you drill a hole 3/4 inch higher, cut the top of the pocket so the spring will still fit, and then bolt everything back together. Some people, me included, also weld another width of metal over the top of the pocket to reinforce it since the top was cut out of it.

Here you go
http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/007242.html

[NOT A TA]

Like Trey I was concerned about the strength with the window in the top. I made the window a bit larger on mine than most people need because I'm running spherical front spring eye bushings which allow more tip. In pics below you can see where I added metal to the sides etc. and the 3/4" difference in the higher hole. I panel bonded mine instead of welding, don't remember any particular reason why, might have been out of gas or something. Either way works fine to reinforce the pocket.

While on the spring pocket subject, try not to use the crappy china junk U nuts the restoration places sell under the OER or other house brand names when the pockets get reinstalled. If you can find CIP brand they're much better and you can identify them by the "CIP" stamped into them.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/003_zps877bf3d2.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/003_zps877bf3d2.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/001_zpsdb57b81c.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/001_zpsdb57b81c.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/005_zps69333bc9.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/The%2014%20Car%20Performance%20Therapy/005_zps69333bc9.jpg.html)

[Gscherer78ta]

Ok, I have seen that mod before, perhaps from John. I feel like I've been on an island or something.... It seems like this would effect ride height slightly. What else does it do for the car?

Have you guys installed a track bar with your leaf springs? Do you have any details on the impact that made to the car handling and the installation?

[WSSix]

This is supposed to help plant the rear as you apply throttle.

I don't have track bars. i would think it would hurt articulation of the rear suspension. John may be able to explain better if he sees this.

[NOT A TA]

Ok, I have seen that mod before, perhaps from John. I feel like I've been on an island or something.... It seems like this would effect ride height slightly. What else does it do for the car?

Have you guys installed a track bar with your leaf springs? Do you have any details on the impact that made to the car handling and the installation?

Rear ride height changes about 3/8". I've been told the rear geometry is changed slightly which affects the instant center and weight applied to the rear wheels under acceleration for better traction. Rear anti-squat is increased.

It's referred to as the Adams mod but I believe Herbs chassis engineer Harry Quackenboss actually came up with it in the beginning. I've been aware of the mod since the 70's but never did it to any of my cars. Several years ago I had a conversation with Harry about it as well as the spherical front spring eye bushing mod and decided to try both on my car.

[Gscherer78ta]

John- what did you feel different once you did those mods? Did that mod improve corner entry, exit?

I believe the track bar helps keep the axle located in the center, although, I guess can't see where it would impede the articulation. With the track bar holding the axle in the center it would seem that the back would have more precision in following the front... Just a guess on my part

[NOT A TA]

When I was running my car one day at Sebring I had a instructor working with me and another guy in a Yellow Maserati taking turns playing lead/follow during a HPDE session. Instructor guy (BMW) said he could watch the rear of my car shift over the rear axle at turn in. If I hit the curbing hard at an apex the inside of the outside tire would slightly rub the inside of the inner fender. He suggested adding a locator such as a Panhard bar or Watts link to reduce the movement.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Sebring%2009/Sebring10309033.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/Sebring%2009/Sebring10309033.jpg.html)

[NOT A TA]

John- what did you feel different once you did those mods? Did that mod improve corner entry, exit?

I believe the track bar helps keep the axle located in the center, although, I guess can't see where it would impede the articulation. With the track bar holding the axle in the center it would seem that the back would have more precision in following the front... Just a guess on my part

I haven't had my car back on track since I did the mod so I can't comment on a difference. I've sold off all the old suspension from my car, including the springs I'd put the front spherical bushings in so it'll be really hard to tell what things had effects on any differences. I'll be using higher spring rates to go along with a lot of aerodynamic changes that will hopefully increase down force so it'll be difficult to tell whether raising the front spring eye or stiffer springs caused changes in the car. I'll have a lot of tuning to do once back on track I'm sure! I got waaaaay too deep in my project.

[WSSix]

Sorry, Greg. When you said track bar my brain thought traction bars like Cal-tracs. A panhard rod or watts link will help. You could also go with thicker shackles like I have from Custom Works to help keep lateral movement to a minimum. His pieces are towards the bottom of this page.

http://customworksperformance.net/suspension.html

[NOT A TA]

Trey, do you have the Delrin frame bushings in your car?

[WSSix]

Yes. I haven't begun to push my car hard enough to know if they help. I know Keith/Custom Works has a video on his site showing before and after he upgraded the shackles. However, he also did other changes at the same time. Those changes shouldn't have affected the lateral movement of the rear though.

Can't tell you about NHV transmission through the Delrin. The car has no interior so it's loud. I don't feel anything hash when I hit bumps. I'm running 200 lb springs in the back

[woody80z28]

Haven't visited this thread (or forum) in a long time! Looking damn good! Our build styles are almost identical... (BTW I run a SPEC 3+ with my LT1 T56 and love love love it.)

The last thing I did was to dearch the rear springs. I just couldn't stand how high it sat in the rear. I've brought the rear down about 1 inch and it looks so much better to me. Ground clearance is still great.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zps7fjokg6g.jpg
Here's the collectors sitting up front and a view from the front. They are just under 4 inches off the ground, no lower than the oil pan, and above the front cross member still.

The mufflers are 5 inches off the ground now. I plan to lower the car in the rear some more. I should have the mufflers between 3.5 and 4 inches off the ground when done. I really hope that's plenty of clearance for me to get in and out of the driveway easily. Right now, it's a breeze getting in and out. I wish I had taken measurements before I cut the old system out, but I missed the reminder I had left myself. Oh well, I know it's more clearance. I just don't know how much.

I am thoroughly impressed. By your ride height and your bravery to go that low!

I got some info on PT that my front air dam should be lower for aerodynamic purposes, so I took some measurements and they are a fair amount higher than I realized. So I can go lower, but I wasn't expecting to see yours THAT low. I've seen 4.5 - 5" as the general consensus as far as a practical ground clearance number.

I've got my exhaust tucked up nicely too, so I'm not as worried about that stuff as I am the front crossmember. You got that slammed!

[WSSix]

Thanks Woody. I appreciate the kid words. I need to take some more measurements now that it's been a while since I did all the work. Things settle and I'm not sure where I'm at now with ground clearance. I don't scrape or bottom out on anything so I'm good in that respect. Is it optimal for handling? I have no clue. I'm not at the stage where I can judge that. With the driving I have done, it ride and handles fine.

I'll look into that clutch too. I'll be needing to make that decision soon.

[WSSix]

Looking for opinions on how I should paint my engine since I'll be getting it built soon.

Here's what it looks like now

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpsv0ok9xnm.jpg

With the shaker removed but the manifolds in place

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr90/Speed_Hound/002_zpsffc812d8.jpg

I'm honestly not trying to build anything to show off. I just want it to be clean and hold up over time. I have a new billet throttle body that will go on the engine that's natural currently. I'm half way considering powder coating the intake black along with the block and leaving the ribs natural aluminum. How does that sound?

Valve covers will remain unless I can find some C4 units. Those are black composite.

What to do with the water pump? Silver or gray paint? Black?

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks

EDIT: I think I need to see about removing the oil fill extension. Looks out of place being that tall.

[JohnJ@RideTech]

Pretty Sweet! I have a soft spot for the later 2nd Gens.

[WSSix]

Thanks John! I appreciate the kind words.

[jarhead]

Trey,
Just my personal opinion but I like contrast, black and grey, or black and silver sound good.

On my 68 the block is going to be gunmetal with black pulleys and the engine bay will be a black satin. I wish I would have painted the intake.

I spend too much time on google images.

Allot of nice engine bays on here too.

You are making allot of progress!

Joe

[WSSix]

Thanks Joe. I sprayed another LT1 intake I have today in black. I think I'll just stick that for now. No reason to get fancy. I just want it to be clean.

[WSSix]

Well, there's no turning back now. The transmission is sitting on the ground under the car and the engine is almost ready to pull. I'll get the stroker built soon. Hopefully, this doesn't take me forever to get put be together.

[Che70velle]

Well, there's no turning back now. The transmission is sitting on the ground under the car and the engine is almost ready to pull. I'll get the stroker built soon. Hopefully, this doesn't take me forever to get put be together.

Trey, you've lost your mind brother. The weather here is turning, and your taking yours apart. I was gonna dust mine off today, but the circus is in town.
I'm building another engine for mine, but I won't change mine out until the new engine is sitting in the shop floor, and I have a free weekend to make it happen.
Hopefully your build goes quickly, and your enjoying yours very soon!

[WSSix]

Yeah, the weather has been great. Having the other engine built first was part of my plan, Scott. But, I guess it's not working out exactly like I wanted. I needed the flywheel and under drive pulley off the front of the engine in the car so the new engine can be balanced. I also need to rebuild the T56. At 180k miles it's time for it to get some love as well. I've already bought everything to do the work. I just need to get it done and get the parts to the machine shop for them to fit in the block.

I did drive it around Friday afternoon before parking it. Great day for a drive.

[WSSix]

The engine is at the machine shop now getting built. They said 6-8 weeks. That will give me plenty of time to remove the current engine and rebuild the T56. I'm actually planning to do that with weekend. I've taken it apart some and so far it's going easy. I've read some horror stories about people not being able to get the gears off the shafts easily. We'll see what happens once I get fully into it. Stay tuned.

[fleetus macmullitz]

We'll be watching for progress Trey...so don't disappoint us.

:P

https://s16.postimg.org/erb32v45x/IMG_0830.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/upjsszydt/)free photo upload (https://postimage.org/)

[WSSix]

lol, thanks Skip.

[WSSix]

Just a quick update. The new engine is running and car is back on the ground as of about 2 hours ago. I'm a little concerned about the transmission. It doesn't feel like it's wanting to shift very easily. I'll drive it around the neighborhood in a bit and find out for certain though.

Thanks!

[Che70velle]

Just a quick update. The new engine is running and car is back on the ground as of about 2 hours ago. I'm a little concerned about the transmission. It doesn't feel like it's wanting to shift very easily. I'll drive it around the neighborhood in a bit and find out for certain though.

Thanks!

Ok Trey, don't leave us hanging. Most of the time, when these trannys don't shift well, it's a clutch issue, and more often than not, its a slave issue. Bleed it again, and try it.
How's it run?

[Jimbo1367]

Anyway to paint it to turn it into a LS? LOL if so, I vote that. LOL

[WSSix]

Well, I've only driven it a few miles and I haven't gotten on it much. So far, it rips :D It really does rev very fast which is great.

The transmission feels ok just tight. It's getting more manageable the more I drive. I've not driven one with the upgraded internals before so I have no frame of reference. It's much more mechanical feeling than it was before the rebuild.

I've got some tunning issues or maybe sensor issues I need to figure out. I didn't investigate today. Biggest issue I'm seeing right now are split BLM's. Either I've got an exhaust leak or bad O2 sensor.

I'll get it all figured out in time. I'm just happy to have the car back on the ground and running. I tried posting an update a few weeks ago but was having trouble with photobucket. I'll try to get some pictures up soon.

Thanks!

[fleetus macmullitz]

Trey,

I use the free and ultra simple www.postimage.io

[WSSix]

Thanks Skip. I may give it a try. I'm getting tired of photobucket taking so long to load from all the ads. I'm also not willing to pay.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Thanks Skip. I may give it a try. I'm getting tired of photobucket taking so long to load from all the ads. I'm also not willing to pay.

I have a ton of pix on PB but avoid using it.

I think postimage is fast. That's a huge reason why I use it.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Updates Bruh...


:rolleyes:


lol

[WSSix]

Well, I'm still slacking on getting images of the engine posted obviously.

As for the car, it handles great and has gobs of power. I took it to the mountains a couple weeks ago. It handled so well while I was chasing a stock Mazda Speed Miata. I've done very little dialing in let alone seat time. I figure it will only get better.

I've been busy buying a house and all that's involved with it so I haven't put many miles on the car. I still need to get a dyno tune to make sure that's right and to see if I achieved my goals. It drives so well that meeting my power goals is only icing on the cake. If it's "low" I don't care.

The next thing on the list is to figure out the vibration issues. It's bad from 55 up. I've given up trying to figure it out myself so it's going to McIntosh Performance in Cumming soon. I need fresh eyes on it. Besides, I'd rather spend the money than what little time I have to get it fixed.

Thanks for asking Skip. I'll try to get pictures up soon.

[Che70velle]

Trey, did you come out my way on your mountain trip? If so, you should have stopped in.
McIntosh has a 6 liter of mine currently. My nephew has already "outgrown" the 5.3 I built for him a couple years ago, so he's bit the bullet and is having me build him an iron 6 liter with 821 heads, ls3 intake, etc.
I can't rag him too much. My engine is about to come out if my chevelle for the 434 Mamo build I've been working on all year...

[WSSix]

We did a quick early morning trip around Blood Mountain. Just one pass. We went clockwise so we went thought Dahlonega, to Suches and Wolf Pen Gap, and back down 129. The car handled Wolf Pen better than I thought it would since it's so tight. I'm running Dunlop Dirreza DZ102 tires and they held firm. No sliding the back end out or under steer. Rear tires were biting well with the TruTrac out back. The leaf springs weren't uncomfortable on the bumps during normal driving either. So yeah, I'm pleased with the car.

I just hope McIntosh has better luck figuring this damn vibration out than I have had. I'm hoping it's something simple even if I feel dumb after the fact.

I'll definitely give you a heads up next time we plan a trip north that's not a quick up and back like this one was.

Thanks Scott

[Roscoe03]

Any updates on this bad boy?

[WSSix]

I appreciate the interest.

Yes, I've slowly but surely been fixing the floor and trans tunnel so that I could get my drive line angles correct and stop the vibration issue. I'm very slow due to life and the fact that I'm trying to do my best with something I've never done before. It's quickly coming up on a year since I started this work. I hope to be back on the ground in a couple months. Work and life are getting in the way though so I may be optimistic in my time frame yet. I'll try to post some pictures this weekend.

Thank you

[Che70velle]

Good to hear Trey! Keep us updated.

[jarhead]

slow but sure wins the race, at least in building a car yourself... I feel the pain and wish you the best

[WSSix]

I appreciate it, Joe and Scott. Thank you

[WSSix]

I promised pictures.

I had to raise the transmission up in order to correct the driveline angle issue I was having, this pushed the exhaust into the transmission cross brace. I could have gone with a better, bolt in design, but I wanted to increase the structural rigidity of the car some more. I also apparently really like to take the longest most difficult path I can take to get the job done. So here's my version of a welded in transmission cross brace.

https://i.imgur.com/tkKnPDhl.jpg

The center section I put together with sheet metal. The sides are 2x3 tubing. Here it is installed in the car.

https://i.imgur.com/aGzHAYRl.jpg

I had to replace the front foot wells and the lower parts of the toe boards in the car due to rust. I wanted to make a more rounded tunnel to clear the T56, but this is what I came up with given my limited abilities. It'll be covered by the center console eventually but it also will look good if exposed in my opinion.

https://i.imgur.com/Vg1K5ySl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cgqc5sJl.jpg

Here it is with a lot of the grinding completed. I still have plenty more to go. I'm not fully welded yet either.
https://i.imgur.com/Cf9b1iil.jpg

Part of what is taking me so long is having never done this before, me moving slowly, and me wanting to do minor stuff like welding the drain plug into the floor because I didn't like the way the floor would look from underneath. Like I said, the long, difficult road.

https://i.imgur.com/waYQKhrl.jpg

I also have a lot of gaps I have to fill in. I removed too much metal in places so I have to put it back some how. It's really time consuming but I'll get there.

That's it for now. As I said, I hope to have it back on the ground in a couple months. We'll see what life has to say about that though.

Thanks for looking.

[WSSix]

I cranked the car for the first time in 13 or 14 months this evening. I had forgotten how good it sounded, lol. I should have the car on the ground tomorrow.

[SSLance]

Yes!!

[NOT A TA]

Progress!!!!!

[WSSix]

I wish I could say I drove it today to confirm the vibration that was the whole reason for this last round of work is indeed resolved. Maybe tomorrow, but later this week for sure I'll drive it. The car is on the ground again though. The garage is cleaned out where it was sitting now, too. It'll be nice to have the place cleaned up again.

Thanks guys.

[Che70velle]

Pulling for you Trey! Are you still in Dunwoody?

[WSSix]

Thanks, Scott. Yes, still in Dunwoody. I'm hoping to make some mountain trips this fall. Planning a bathroom renovation too though so we'll see. I need to get both the 540 and the TA up to the mountains. It'll be a huge weight off my shoulders once I've got the TA done with this latest round of work. I plan to keep it in this state for some time.

[Lenie]

Trey, the work really looks good. One cool build!

[WSSix]

I appreciate the kind words, Lenie. Now that the weather has started cooling off, I plan to drive it more.

[Brianstanford]

Great fab work and attention to detail! Car is looking good

[WSSix]

I appreciate it. I'm still plugging away on the car. Slowly but surely.

[syborg tt]

I just went back and looked at this entire thread - Wow I forgot how awesome this car & thread was/is.

[WSSix]

Thanks, Marty. I really appreciate the kind words. You really shouldn't have punished yourself like that though, lol.

Did you find the pics on how I ran the fuel lines on my tank? Let me know if not. I can get more.

I'm planning an update soon as I've cut part of my quarter panel apart to repair damage. I'm starting on body work at this point in the build since it takes more time than money. I have some craziness planned. Hopefully, it'll be worth the effort.

[WSSix]

So the update I mentioned above is the car is for sale again. I just don't have the time to work on it and don't want it to sit. Plus, I have this minor thing coming along in June called a baby boy. I definitely won't have time once he's here.

Here's the CL link while it still lasts. Price is very negotiable.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/atlanta-1979-trans-am-lt1-t56/7288520607.html

It's been a fun ride. I'm going to miss it. I still like these cars very much, but after 21 years, it's time to move on to something else. It feels a lot like when I sold my Ducati and stopped riding motorcycles entirely. I still miss them and want another at times, but it was the right decision. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks

[jarhead]

Trey,
I sent the link to a friend mine in South Carolina. He had one when we were stationed in California, I think it was a 76.

Good luck!,
Joe

[WSSix]

I appreciate it, Joe. Thank you.

[WSSix]

Well, I sold the car today. The new owner is ecstatic. He said something along the lines of "This thing sounds like the car I've always dreamed about" during the test ride. Not gonna lie, that was a difficult compliment for me to hear and not tear up. I'm sad to see it go as it sounded great and looked great as it was leaving. I'm happy with what I built. I'm excited for what's next.

Thanks for following along and the words of encouragement, not to mention the help, everyone!

[Spiffav8]

Congrats. Now what?

[jarhead]

Looking forward to your next adventure Trey :popcorn2:

[WSSix]

Thanks, guys.

I'm not sure what's next, Curtis. Something less radical for sure. Given I have a son on the way in a few weeks, whatever I get into will need to require less attention. With that said, I'm really digging square bodies and their successor the GMT400 trucks. So I might end up with one of those to drive around in. Or, I may take my friends advice and focus on diapers and the BMW, lol.

[WSSix]

Here's the answer to your question, Curtis

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?p=713027#post713027

[WSSix]

Here's the answer to your question, Curtis

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?p=713027#post713027

[Spiffav8]

Here's the answer to your question, Curtis

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?p=713027#post713027

That'll be a lot of fun!! Well played.