Lets talk IQ3 Dashes and Data Loggers

[Ron in SoCal]

Hell, why not...

Background: had a great time monoplozing Ron Sutton's time at SEMA last year in the Racepak booth. Man what an education. Ron can tell you about every sensor (throttle, brake, steering and shock) you could ever want. I learned a ton and am not second guessing the master.

What I would like to hear is:

* What are you guys using? Which brand and why?
* Do people the on this site buy the dash only, or the intergrated data logging version?
* How do you hook it up to a GM ECM? What cables are required? Someone asked recently if different LS engines are plug an play?
* What about GPS, track and data video overlays? If not this system, what about Trackmate (Gaetano) and why??
* Any of you actually use software to analyze track day data? Can you (I hope to one day, lol)? Did you actually see an improvement from it?
* How serious are you and what's your price threshold? How valuable is it to YOU?

If I could request, let's make it a blank sheet of paper without getting too far off track. I know some have had issues with certain brands and I'd love to hear what and why. Technology is moving quickly these days; as an stupid example you could buy Harry's lap timer for the iPhone and do GPS, track and video overlays which might make some systems redundant. In my limited research I've seen these different systems overlap pretty quickly.

What do you think, worthwhile topic? :sieg:

[glassman]

Yes way. Something i'm a total newb at and veddy interested in. So, while no input from my end, will be watching.

[dontlifttoshift]

I looked into Racepak and Autometers new LCD dash/logger. I determined that they were probably too awesome (expensive) for my needs. After a little experience with a DL1 I went with Race Technology Dash 2 Pro.

http://www.race-technology.com/dash2_pro_8_31379.html

The biggest reason I went this way is that I was already familiar with the software and having a DL1 in one car allows me to compare data between the two. They were also the only ones that said they could do point to point tracks, like an autocross. I got muddy answers from everyone else on that.

Driving your car and looking at a LCD dash and not using it as a data logger makes you a poseur.

I can't speak for others systems, but R/T has a OBDII cable that plugs right in and all the information is there. TPS, CTS, IAT, MAP, etc,

The Dash 2 will control video and overlay with the data. GPS is a must. I couldn't look at the data and remember what happened without the track map. Usually it is accurate enough to see the different lines you tried, especially awesome at autocross.

Every Sunday we autocross I load the data in the laptop to find out why my wife drives faster than I do :EmoteClueless: I then point out all the spots we both could have been faster and we pick a couple of things to fix. This week it was "use less brakes but brake more when you brake" and "quit coasting". Those are two things we never could have self analyzed without the data.

If I have time tonight, I get some screen grabs and post them up.

[Ron in SoCal]

Awesome Donny! Post some of the screen shots :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

To be honest Ronny we still havent had time to install the Traqmate yet. Box is still sitting at Vnces and beyond that work has been real busy for both of us so no time to read up on it yet.
For the most part what Im hoping to get out of it is corner entry and exit speeds. It willl also be interesting to see what kind of g's I'm able to attain.
Another nice feature of the unit is the unit is supposed to be able to turn the camera on at certain speeds. It really is a pain to try and turn the GO Pro on after you are strapped in.
Sorry i dont have more info for you at this time. Hope to get more into it within the next month or so.

[Ron Sutton]

I looked into Racepak and Autometers new LCD dash/logger. I determined that they were probably too awesome (expensive) for my needs. After a little experience with a DL1 I went with Race Technology Dash 2 Pro.

http://www.race-technology.com/dash2_pro_8_31379.html

The biggest reason I went this way is that I was already familiar with the software and having a DL1 in one car allows me to compare data between the two. They were also the only ones that said they could do point to point tracks, like an autocross. I got muddy answers from everyone else on that.

Driving your car and looking at a LCD dash and not using it as a data logger makes you a poseur.

I can't speak for others systems, but R/T has a OBDII cable that plugs right in and all the information is there. TPS, CTS, IAT, MAP, etc,

The Dash 2 will control video and overlay with the data. GPS is a must. I couldn't look at the data and remember what happened without the track map. Usually it is accurate enough to see the different lines you tried, especially awesome at autocross.

Every Sunday we autocross I load the data in the laptop to find out why my wife drives faster than I do :EmoteClueless: I then point out all the spots we both could have been faster and we pick a couple of things to fix. This week it was "use less brakes but brake more when you brake" and "quit coasting". Those are two things we never could have self analyzed without the data.

If I have time tonight, I get some screen grabs and post them up.


Hey Donny,

I am a big fan of the Race Technology Data AcQuistion systems. When we shopped for DAQ (Data AcQuistion) systems for my race teams at the end of 2005 ... we looked at all the brands. Budget was a concern, but functionality was tops. We for sure wanted a GPS satellite based system. After comparing over a dozen brands, we narrowed it down to Race Rechnology & Racepak (owned by MSD). I bought several RT DL-1's to install in our race cars back for 2006. (See first photo at bottom of page.)

We loved the software, loved the system functionality ... hated the way the sensors wired to the brain box. For our purposes ... and we were running the systems at the track 40-50 days a year ... the wiring connections wouldn't hold up. They kept breaking & failing. We loved having data ... hated not having data when the wiring connections broke. We would send them back to be repaired ... which they did for free ... but we were racing without the units. :(

So my engineers designed a new box (see 2nd box with our Star Racing Technology brand on it below) ... with high end sensor connections ... and we bought motherboards & software from Race Technology. Worked excellent. No more failed sensor wiring connections. The RT software & brain were already top notch.

NOW ...
Race Technology has upgraded the sensor connections in new models. I have not run the new version, but it looks to me like they solved the connector issue. You can see where they made the improvement HERE (http://www.race-technology.com/content.php?pcat=8&cat=31363).

Pros:
I feel the Race Technology DAQ systems provide all the data you need ... with fast processing speed & robust memory ... in a software that is easy to read & tailor ... in a VERY affordable package.

Now they have better connectors and should trouble free for the life of the unit for most users. Other updates include syncing with your GoPro camera to show video side-by-side with the data. See it HERE (http://www.race-technology.com/content.php?pcat=8&cat=31365).


Cons:
If you want to add sensors ... like throttle, brake, steering, shock travel, etc ... you need to wire them up yourself. Not a big deal, but you need to get the wire, attach connectors, etc. Also of note, we did not have good success (inaccurate & inconsistent results) with their shock sensor. We switched to Penny & Giles linear potentiometers (shock travel sensor) and had great accuracy & repeatability.

The tech support is ok. The US importer Al Siem is a good guy, helpful & knowledgeable about the product. IMHO Al has minimal field experience using DAQ with racers & race teams. So don't expect him to guide you on what the data means for you.

---------------------------------------------------------

The RacePak DAQ systems from MSD is also a great system. They can & do everything the Race Technology DAQ systems do.

Their sensor wiring connections are top notch. Their sensors come pre-wired with quality connector ends. It is literally a "plug-n-play" system.

The lead DAQ guy at RacePak is Tim Anderson ... who had 7 years of DAQ experience leading the Engineering Department of a winning NASCAR Cup team, before moving over to leading RacePak's DAQ program. He has since worked in the field with a ton of other racers & teams. He knows the equipment & knows what the information means for you the racer.

But ... the RacePak system & indivudal sensors are more expensive. You get better tech & data support, better, simpler sensor wiring & connections and you pay more for that.

Summary:
I think which system is best for you is personal preference. We don't build our own systems anymore since I closed my race teams. So I became a dealer for both brands and recommend the Race Technology DAQ system for guys that are more hands on, can do the wiring without a hitch and either have the knowledge to figure out what the data means to them or will hire someone like me.

I recommend the RacePak DAQ system for guys that want an easy, no-worries install & better tech & data support from the company.

Choose your weapon. :cheers:

[dontlifttoshift]

The US importer Al Siem is a good guy, helpful & knowledgeable about the product. IMHO Al has minimal field experience using DAQ with racers & race teams. So don't expect him to guide you on what the data means for you.

This brings up a good point, using what people around you are using is helpful. I was turned onto the RT stuff by a local SCCA racer who was very familiar with the prduct. That sped up my learning curve (with the data, still a hack driver) immensely. Most autocrossers around here use the RT DL1 so tech help can be as close as a few grid spots. Not to undercut Ron, but in the midwest Jeremy Lucas at Fasttech set me up with the Dash 2 he is a racer and answers the phone on evenings and weekends, right when you need tech help.

Ron, my only experience is with the RT daq so is the Racepak as configureable? I have read about guys with RT using all sorts of different sensors and being able to wire it in and decode the information. Obviously these are far more advanced users than I am, but two of my favorites have been the addition of oem corvette yaw sensors and infrared sensors aimed at the tire for real time tire temp.

[Ron in SoCal]

Thanks Ron! Now I know where I'm getting my DAQ from :cheers:

[dontlifttoshift]

This isn't an endorsement of Race Technology, like I said, it's what I use because it is what the people around me use. It is the only DAQ that I have experience with and I have only been using it for a year.

If you click the image it will take you to SmugMug and you can view the screenshots larger.

Here is the first page I look at. Basic track map and a speed graph on the bottom. The straight lines under the speed graph are time slip. As you scroll through the graph it will show how many seconds in front of or behind the other car is. The red lines are my wife Angela and the slower lines are blue and represent me. On the top side of the map it looks like I (blue) am way off line, that is gps shift, there are ways to correct it but I don't care, the shape of the map is what is important to me. See the 180* at the right of the map, that was a left turn. See how the blue line goes way out? I overcooked the entry, too much steering input, chattered the front tires and blew the exit. About the middle of the speed graph you can see Angela's speed below mine but then she is able to pick up the throttle earlier and was going a full 8 mph faster into the slalom than I was. That's huge. I can go on and on but I gotta get back to work. That's just a small look into how much information is available.....and I don't even know what I'm doing:confused18:




http://http://frameupwheelworks.smugmug.com/Electronics/Data-log/i-wX7Wj5b/0/L/data1-L.png (http://frameupwheelworks.smugmug.com/Electronics/Data-log/40937351_FgtKgc#!i=3258734188&k=wX7Wj5b&lb=1&s=A)

http://frameupwheelworks.smugmug.com/Electronics/Data-log/i-wbHgRnM/0/L/data1-L.png (http://frameupwheelworks.smugmug.com/Electronics/Data-log/40937351_FgtKgc#!i=3258739493&k=wbHgRnM&lb=1&s=A)

[Ron Sutton]

Ron, my only experience is with the RT daq so is the Racepak as configureable? I have read about guys with RT using all sorts of different sensors and being able to wire it in and decode the information. Obviously these are far more advanced users than I am, but two of my favorites have been the addition of oem corvette yaw sensors and infrared sensors aimed at the tire for real time tire temp.

Nice. We used the infrared tire sensors for tire testing. We had the yaw sensors but never gleaned much usage from them.

To answer your question ... yes ... you can wire ANY sensor into a RacePak unit that utilizes the 0-5v range ... just like Race Technology. There are pros & cons both routes. Racepak already has all the connection options to tap into new car electronics. Just buy them & plug them in. That is the RacePak advantage that you're paying extra for.

If someone has the skills & desire to wire in their own sensors, the Race Technology unit is the way to go, because it costs less. As far as what they both will do, it's a tie.

The RacePak costs more because they have done the work for you to make their sensors plug-n-play. They are pre-calibrated & pre-wired sensors. Plus deeper tech support. Race Technology is a better value for the do-it-yourselfer with wiring skills, that doesn't mind the extra work of attaching ends & calibrating sensors through the software.

[dontlifttoshift]

[COLOR="Blue"]

To answer your question ... yes ... you can wire ANY sensor into a RacePak unit that utilizes the 0-5v range ... just like Race Technology. There are pros & cons both routes. Racepak already has all the connection options to tap into new car electronics. Just buy them & plug them in. That is the RacePak advantage that you're paying extra for.



Good to know for future reference....thanks. RT has an OBDII adapter as well. We run it in our late model mustang and all the engine parameters are there. I haven't dug deep enough to see if wheel speed, steering angle, and other chassis stuff is there or not.

JasonM, if you see this, please throw in your 2 cents. You guys have been using AIM solo units, right? That may be the super user friendly option for a bunch of guys on this forum.