What is going on at PT.Com?

[Payton King]

Not saying this of everyone over at PT.com, but I find that some of the members over there are a little harsh on anyone that they do not feel is building a pro-touring car to THEIR idea of what they like or what they think works. Case in point, Datsbad posted up some unbelievable photos of a subframe that he is doing...this thing is flawless. And a few people hop all over his work saying it is not pro-tour, or what are you thinking smoothing the frame with Bondo(space age plastic filler) why didn't you do a G-mod...that kind of stuff. I don't even need to go into TwinSting's thread. I can get this kind of stuff at work, I do not need it in a hobby that I love.

With all of that said, I find this site to be a breath of fresh air as everyone here is supportive of each others hard work, creativity and vision of the way they want their car. I know that we should all have tougher skin, but when you are putting your heart and sole into a project, not to mention the cubic bucks and time commitment, you don't want to hear some goof ball tell you that you are a dumb ass.

With that being said...Great site Scott, thank you for letting me a part of this community.

Payton

[harshman]

It is something that happens to all forums. Opinions are like….. well you get the idea. Honestly, if you make remarks try to write them up as if you were standing in the same garage with that person. Use some tact and humbly ask questions. Honestly I know that if the frame was welded right, there shouldn’t be that much mud on the frame. Weld, grind, weld some more and grind some more – eventually you will have a masterpiece that, when it is painted, will be beautiful. I think he did a fantastic job. Enough said.

Oh and don’t get me started on the tubular control arm / G-mod issue. Most people tend to spout what the salesman said rather than rely on actual data – which by the way no one will post up.

[XcYZ]

Thanks Payton, I appreciate the kind words and support.

[camcojb]

There are still good people over there, but with growth you'll get these kinds of people and attitudes. Unfortunate occurence, but Scott and I have discussed it before and we'll deal with it the best we can over here.

You are correct in that we have a great group over here now.
Seems to get better daily.

Jody

[jonny51]

Payton the bigger a forum gets the more opnions you get its just how it is.With that said try a motocross forum, PT is peace and love compared to those forums. :D

[rockdogz]

I think as usual, it's not black or white but shades of grey...
I think posters need to be more careful about how they word their posts (great point harshman about imagining you're standing in the same room with the person).
However, maybe some thicker skin is necessary as well...

[BC69]

I gotta agree with the general concensus, with the bigger forums, there is bound to be differing of opinion. It is a matter of general respect among members. Pro-touring.com is really a great site for the most part, just have to take comments with a grain of salt.
While some people are hardcore textbook pro-tourers, I think alot of people are just building a kick-ass car for themselves, and maybe for their budgets. What Harshman said about being in their garage I thought got it just right, just think if you were there seeing the pride DatsBad had in his work, none of us would insult him like that. To each his own, that is how hotrodding began, and that is how pro-touring began. The desire to take it a step further, or be different from everyone else. I had to read Mills: On Liberty last week, and as he puts it, with out individualism, the growth of society and the world would be non-existance...same with the development of the car hobby.
I for one hope to see more progress pics, maybe we can invite him over here to post them here...we can all be nice!

Okay enough talk from me
Tim

[ryans67deuce]

I'm with you Payton!! I have obstained from posting over there in fear of being plastered.... I once posted a request to get ideas for naming my project - it turned into a 5 page bitch and moan session of why anybody would ever want to "name" their car.... :willy: :beathorse

[907rs]

Payton, I believe it has a lot to do with the age and maturity of the members. Growth comes from new members, and of those members, ages and backgrounds, as well as common sense vary. Growth is good for these boards, but as they grow, moderation HAS to follow.

There is no doubt in my mind that Scott and the crew will keep the quality of content here on the up-and-up.

[almcbri]

well said by everyone who posted.
I have noticed that everyone has been edgy lately at PT. Seems like it comes and goes in spurts.
That shouldn't be going on at all, but some people don't know when to quit. It's aggravating to see someone knock anothers work. Some people are negative and those tend to be the people who can't hold their tougue. No longer than I have been here I love the atmosphere. Great Site!

Andrew

[Stuart Adams]

Scott and Jody great site, good troops here. I always try and think twice speak once and also the pro -touring dinner was fun with alot of people so it would seem that most people would be concerned about what they say to each other because it would be uncomfortable having dinner with someone you just bashed - but some people have alot of balls behind the keyboard and no class. Unless it's constructive criticism what good is spouting off at someone to get a reaction.

Also " you don't breed donkeys and get race horses."

Keep up the good work guys and do it like you want it.

[907rs]

I just read the thread over there, and believe it or not, that is the same thing I have been planning for mine. Looks awesome!

I guess I know where I'll post my pics!

[Datsbad]

hey guys , mine if i join here ?

907rs , thanks for the invite . i promise i wont cause any problems!! not that i did over there but you guys know whats going on . any way hello and this site look great !!. i did not even know it was here . thanks

[jonny51]

Welcome aboard datsbad you will like it here.There is a great group here with tons of knowledge. :thumbsup:

[MarkM66]

There seem to be a few "know it all" types over there that really rub me the wrong way. And love to knit pick other peoples work.

So I don't think I'll be posting any pics of my current build there. I really don't feel like having to justify anything I've done. :D

Welcome Datsbad!

[907rs]

Well let me be the first to say WELCOME!

I've seen the quality of your work, and I'm sure everyone will appreciate your input here.

[69MyWay]

Hey guys. My buddy Radrambler invited me here. I look forward to seeing more members and more action. It comes with time and growth, but so does the riff raff members and static.

With that said, I have moderated and administrated at some popular Corvette sites. So, I have experience with interacting, but still have much to learn. I don't treat others like children and don't expect to be treated that way either. Never had a problem at PT, but stuff happens to everybody.

I can tell you that I joined another very popular site to help me learn and grow with my Gen III engine build. I am a total junior when it comes to programming and tuning issues with the LS1 engine. The folks on that board blow me away. I have found that you get a couple of high profile members with typing behavior problems that tend to influence the entire site. The leadership makes all the difference in a community between one that is open and welcoming and one that only seems to cater to the thought process of that specific leadership.

It is much like real life communities. People of like mind tend to congregate to specific communities and you know what to expect when you drive into that neighborhood or association.

[Datsbad]

i posted the much controversal picture up above . easy on me :hail:

[zbugger]

Hey guys. That's just what happens with growth. Jay, if I can call you that, you can still post your updates there if you'd like. Thing is, as you posted it in the suspension forum, there's quite a bit of suspension "tekkies" there that don't want to understand the "look". It's unfortunate that it took that turn, but don't let that be a knock on anyone but the guys that posted it. More of the intelligent types will hold their tongue before bashing.

That said, I'm gonna have my little bit of fun there now. I've been given permission!!! :eek:

[MarkM66]

I should post some pics of a '71 Chevelle my brother is building. It was wrecked in the front, and the frame was bent some. The previous owner used so much mud on the frame, we didn't even know the frame was bent until we ground it off, LOL! Had to be at least 1/2" think, or more. And there wasn't a single crack in it.

Actually, the whole car is alot worse then we first thought. :(

But it's coming along nicely, :thumbsup: .

[jannes_z-28]

i posted the much controversal picture up above . easy on me :hail:

On this site that frame is not controversal, it's awesome. good work!!


Jan

[Payton King]

Are you talking about www.ls1tech.com ? If you are that is one of my favorite sites. It also made me go from a stock LS1 to a head and cam car on the hose.

Datsbad...I did not know that you were not familiar with this site. Welcome! Your Blue car is beautiful and I hate to see you selling it. What is next?

[Ummgawa]

Ya know what? When I read meanie threads like the one criticising(sp) the work that went into that beautiful sub-frame (Gulstrand or not), Heck It makes me want to keep this site a dog gone secret!! I don't want to deal with mean spirited boys like that here! I went yesterday to see a 17 year old kid I go to church with's 67 Camaro(I noticed he was lookin at the car like it was the first real girlfriend) and listened to what all he wanted to do. He sez he won't even eat rice anymore because he hates Hondas and Mazdas so much LOL.My point is that I probably would not have given that car a second look and this Kid LOVES his car!! his 1967 Camaro!! We have to continue to encourage each other!

Scott, You've done a outstanding job on this site. Hard work in any degree is to be complemented. Having a guy like Charlie with all of those awesome cars complement others is such an encouragement. Knowing guys the caliber of Jody, Mark, Steve(s), Bill, Stuart and some of the Lurkers that are here, and all of the others that have "been there and done that" in such an encouraging format devoted to the construction of our "masterpieces" is so dang cool.

Edited due to the Kid (67) in Question coming to this site!!

Remember who might be watching!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[BC69]

Wow Jim, that is an awesome story, and you are truly an outstanding guy for what you are doing. Being in the position of that 17 year old, only one year ago, believe me you are making that kids year!

DatsBad...nice to see you made it over, got any more pictures of the build?? I saw you didn't want to post them at PT, but I really like to see any other work you have going...amazing job so far!

Tim

[Payton King]

Good for you. That is a great story and I know that you will get more out of helping that kid out than any of that stuff is worth. I, like all the rest, remember who influenced me when when I was young getting into this hobby and I am still in contact with 99% of them. He will never forget you or what you did. Your act of kindness will be repaid to you 10 fold in return.

I was trying to think what I had lying around that he might be able to use, but I have traded off most of my stuff. I do have a Grant steering wheel and an old, but good 69 wiring harness and a good repo rear bumper. If he wants any, I will send it your way. Kind of like "Overhaulin'" with the owner participating.

[clill]

I'm a know it all and you guys suck.......... :D

[Stuart Adams]

When Charley sais you suck it's a compliment, thanks Charley........

[Ummgawa]

III SSSUUCCKK TRa LA LA LA LA LAAAA! :D

[DCreations]

Thats why I joined lateral-g.net, everyone is great and I always get help when i have a question and dont get knocked for it. :D

[camcojb]

John,

I'm sorry that post is going that direction over there. It will not go that direction over here. I haven't seen anything yet that needs to be "moderated" in this thread, but let me know if you disagree. I couldn't find you mentioned by name at all, they're just speaking of some of the attitudes that exist.

Jody

[trapin]

How 'bout that Chris Webber trade to Philadelphia? Is that nuts or what? :D




......sorry. :_paranoid

[BC69]

Trapin,

Hahaha...the awkward defuser... :thumbsup:

Tim

[slownova]

well i came to this site for a common reason. everyone there thinks they invented pro-touring, John included. i mean i thought it was all about cars no matter what? who cares what way they go. Datasbad has a couple of other pro-touring style cars and had pics of a nice show stlye camaro. i have all pro-touring parts on my car just big rims. i also have a 68 firbird thats all the handling i can handle. i guess people don't like change.

[JohnUlaszek]

There is an open topic post over at PT that I think addresses an issue that is pandemic with PT.com right now, and that is the tremendous growth of the site and cars all falling under the "pro-touring" concept.

I am going to guess I struck a nerve that has been aching in the community for a while.

I surely didn't come here to create drama, I have had more than my fill today.

While no one here has referred to me by name, when you refer to that Ahole or jackass thread, I think its pretty clear who they are referring to. Those comments are what compelled me to post here. Normally I am a lurker.

[slownova]

There is an open topic post that I think addresses an issue that is pandemic with PT.com right now, and that is the tremendous growth of the site and cars all falling under the "pro-touring" concept.

I am going to guess I struck a nerve that has been aching in the community for a while.

I surely didn't come here to create drama, I have had more than my fill today.

While no one here has referred to me by name, when you refer to that Ahole or jackass thread, I think its pretty clear who they are referring to.
go build your car then. you like cars your way, he likes his, his way. once again. you didn't invent it nor perfect it, but you have your own version of it as does datsbad. enough said.

[camcojb]

I understand John. I think there are all kinds in the Pro Touring world, just like in any other area of hot rodding. I can appreciate a show car look as well as a bare-bones street fighter theme.

As the interest in this style of car grows it's only natural that it will evolve, much as Pro Street did. There will be beautiful show cars on one end and full-on race cars on the other, with everything imaginable in-between. I feel it's the car builders money and he can do what he likes with it. If I don't like a particular style or look I just try to keep it to myself. Hard to do sometimes.

Jody

[69MyWay]

Are you talking about www.ls1tech.com ? If you are that is one of my favorite sites. It also made me go from a stock LS1 to a head and cam car on the hose.




Not going to mention any sites by name. No worries though.

[Ummgawa]

On Va ALA Plage!!

[XcYZ]

To be honest, I'm surprised that this thread didn't get out of hand. I was cringing when I started reading it.

Getting to the heart of the matter, the one thing that has always bothered me was if a car has a high level of fit and finish it was written off as no longer "pro-touring". A lot of guys spend a GREAT deal of time and resources getting a killer motor and chassis put together, yet if someone wants to equal that level in the fit and finish of the car, it's somehow not as hardcore. The Mule is the perfect example of this.

One thing is for sure, this arguement is not going away.

[JohnUlaszek]

Believe it or not I am not the deranged angry subframe hater that I have been painted as today. I managed to put myself in the eye of the PT definition storm with one off-base comment.

SlowNova, please get your facts straight, I didn't invent Pro-Touring, I invented the internet!

[XcYZ]

LOL, if you invented the internet, you lost the election!

[69MyWay]

LOL, if you invented the internet, you lost the election!

Dang...that's just plain funny :thumbsup:

[BC69]

What do you mean Scott...He didn't lose..it was stolen from him ;) :D

Haha, now we are gonna open a political debate...I am gonna go duck somewhere.

Tim

[XcYZ]

Good point, Tim. We're much better off debating the realm of pro-touring. lol

[c.schulz]

WOW.....I love this place. :thumbsup:
Chris

[almcbri]

I second that Chris!

You guys crack me up. :lolhit:

[61Bubbletop]

I like pancakes....

[spaztikatik]

I loved them until i found a band-aid in mine :eek:

[zbugger]

I like pancakes....
Pancakes? Where's the bunny?!?!?!?! :willy:

[XcYZ]

I haven't had to use the pancake picture in a long time...

http://www.lateral-g.net/bunny.jpg

[68protouring454]

lmmfao, too funny
man talk about some action on the sites today!!!
jake

[JohnUlaszek]

God Damn I need a beer

[jonny51]

God Damn I need a beer

I think we all do or a group hug LOL

[radrambler]

guys of lateral-g

i have had nothing but nice things said about my project...its different and i didnt know what would be said in response to my post here......
i have to say this site is first class....i understand the top notch cars that are shown here..by the members here....i aplaud their ability ,creativity and any coverage in magazines earned...
i also know we all have different ideas. that what makes it fun ..if we all built the same car none would get attention or be anymore special than the next.
we all know how much we ENJOY THIS HOBBY/WAY OF LIFE ....lets keep it that way ....ENJOY.....

RADRAMBLER

[907rs]

Pancakes? Mmmmm.... I ate 23 one time! :D

Seriously, where else can you go that has a thread that started like this one, and end up with everyone joking around?

I love this place! Keep it up guys!!

[spaztikatik]

I think we all do or a group hug LOL


you know with enough beer I'm sure a group hug wouldn't be too far behind

[BC69]

Don't get them started on beer and male group hugs...

Here comes the SEMA stories!

Tim

[Q-ship]

I love that freakin' bunny picture! Thanks guys, I needed to laugh today.

[Ummgawa]

Ok Thrush(LOL), Where is the Pivot Man?

[Musclerodz]

I guess a few people woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Datsbad, glad to see another on board over here. I just hope the top side of my car looks that good when I am done.

Mike

[61Bubbletop]

Don't look at me! :P

[Camaro Zach]

I am a member over there as well. And as soon as i saw the pics in that thread i didnt reply or anything and havent even gone back to it because i was anticipating a flame war over the way it was done.... And yes i have stopped posting as much over there because everyone seems to be on edge and some people think everything should be done their way... I think that everyone being on edge might be from "Cabin Fever" being snowed in or not being able to work on their cars or do anything during the winter but sit on a computer... Also yes i do think there are alot of "young" know it all kids but there are some of us that are not. My $.02 if it matters, lol :cool:

[parsonsj]

I watched and participated in some of the discussions that went on last night at pt.com. There is far more diversity of cars and people there compared to Lateral-g, and that's good. Many of us here are of the same age, background, and are building similar cars. There is less diversity of thought here, leading to more consensus and less controversy.

That's not necessarily always going to be the case, and frankly, shouldn't be the goal of this site, unless we plan on denying membership and reining in alternate ways of building cars and expressing oneself doing so.

So, yeah, it can be a bit rough-and-tumble over there. Kinda like going to public school: everyone is invited. I think this site will suffer over the long term if we take the view of a private school: only like-thinking individuals need apply.

I like both sites, and visit them both daily. Scott, Jody: keep up the great work!

jp

[Payton King]

Wow, this post got legs while I was home last night. I appreciate any car that someone has put a lot of time and work in and I know that not everyone can build a high end car. Although I would not pro tour a mini-van, I cannot wait to see it when it is finished. My orginal statement was more from a communication and behavior standpoint. I would say that was a fair statement in making the comparison to public and private schools, but not from a diversity standpoint, more of a respect and behavior attitude.

[trapin]

The secret to great pancakes is the vanilla.

You gotta step up the vanilla in the recipe. The vanilla just makes the pancake in my humble opinion. :thumbsup:

[parsonsj]

Hadn't heard about vanilla.

I always thought butter was the missing ingredient. Many people eat pancakes with just syrup and leave out the butter. That's just wrong. You gotta have butter.

I'll run the vanilla hint past my pancake maker.

jp

[trapin]

John....it also works for chocolate chip cookies too. Apparantly, this is the secret to Mrs. Fields Cookies.

And I agree with the butter thing. Butter makes everything better.

Hell, I'd eat dirt if it had butter on it. :thumbsup:

[69MyWay]

John....it also works for chocolate chip cookies too. Apparantly, this is the secret to Mrs. Fields Cookies.

And I agree with the butter thing. Butter makes everything better.

Hell, I'd eat dirt if it had butter on it. :thumbsup:

It's cinnamon butter for me.............

[Rick Dorion]

I participate in both sites and like the diversity. All the opinions merely support why we have bell curves for the distribution of anything, including opinions! Even pancake ingredients.

[Ummgawa]

bUTTER gOOOOOD!! mARGARINE oookkkkkkkkkk!

[907rs]

Butter, blueberries, and Mrs. Butterworths.

[BlazerSpeed]

diversity can be a great thing, or the nail in the coffin. I used to post on a blazer site that was very dedicated to the sport truck theme. The numbers became huge, and the people were rediculous...basically if your werent bagged and layin frame you shouldn't be on the site...Zach might know what I'm talking about :unibrow:

now if i do check that sight, it is simply to see the fabrication, interior, and metal work sections...everyother part has way too much high school drama. My point is, when the numbers increase you are bound to get some people that are there just to stir the pot, and often times they will be checking things out simply because they saw the site name in a magazine. my personal opinion, diversity can be awesome...after all, I'm not building another belly button, but hey even something everyone has can be unique :thumbsup:

and as far as pancakes go...I like Waffles...mmmmm WAFFLES!!

Derek

[67Sally]

Parkay.....

[jannes_z-28]

bUTTER gOOOOOD!! mARGARINE oookkkkkkkkkk!

Jim are you in some way related to a certain Mr Homer Simpson??


Jan

[zbugger]

Ok, I couldn't hold out anymore. Buttermilk pancake on the bottom, layer of scrambled eggs next, layer of hashbrown next, layer of bacon after that, and another buttermilk pancake on top. Use butter as they do mayo on most other sandwiches, and coat the thing in maple syrup. It's the breakfast of champions!!!

Ow... Do your arteries feel stiff too? I'm hearing a cracking sound every time I bend my arm now....

[airrj1]

The other thing that you might find to be true is we are in the middle of the "Winter Blues" season. At a site that I moderate on we find allot more 'problem' threads from mid Jan. to mid Mar. when allot of people are stuck in their house with any chance to work on their cars. They tend to take their frustrations out on others on the web. :willy:

[Pro T Mustang]

I post on both forums and I must have missed Datsbad's post cause dat sub is BAD!! Great work there Dats!! I have seen a couple of those "Whats Pro Touring" threads go wrong....seems just like has been said here most everyone will have a different view of what it is. I say who cares if your car does not fit EXACTLY in a definition.....I NEVER wanted my car exactly like anyones!!!! :thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

I worry about saying anything.. I like to think I post in a nice manner even when I am giving a critisisum.. Man, have gotten some ranting PM's and emails..

People need to chill and not be so quick to loose it.. sometime how something reads on the net is not how it was meant.

Anyways, some of the problem is the "keyboard warrior" syndrome where people say crap online that they would never say in person.

The worst part is the "Just because you work at PHR.. " god is that lame, I post the same way now as I did two months ago.. I can just post more now since I have the ability. I'm just a chimp behind a keyboard.. toss me a banana and watch me flail away.. lol

Oh well, as PT.com grows there will be growing pains.. still love the site and it has a TON less drama than most sights.

[trapin]

Tone inflection has a lot to do with it. Sometimes the way you say something could be taken as a belligerent comment when you were only trying to be funny. It may not have been a tasteful joke, but you certainly didn't mean any harm by it. But how are they to know? One often needs to remind oneself that just because you've had correspondence with someone on a message board for a couple of years doesn't mean you actually KNOW that person. Until you've met face to face a few times, you are still only an acquaintance. So you have to be careful what you joke about or how you respond to certain things. Believe me; I've learned my lesson about this more than a few times. Over a year ago I made a joke about Charlie's wealth on a different Message Board and he took genuine offense to it (something about the rich getting richer or something like that). It was probably not a wise joke to make towards someone that I don't know personally. I truly meant no harm and thought he'd get a chuckle from the comment but how was he to know that I was joking? If it had been a close friend of his maybe he would have blown it off but coming from some guy that he only knows as a username on a Message Board, he has to question it. I don't blame him for getting miffed at it. In retrospect, I probably would have reacted the same way.

I'm sure John's a good guy and I'm not going to let one comment sink him in my opinion. A review of his post before hitting 'submit' may have seen the term 'ugly baby' removed before the post even made it into the thread...then we wouldn't even be talking about this. Give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure he's learned from this as we all have.

[camcojb]

Tony,

I'm a good friend of Charleys and he still calls me a "jackass"!!! :D

Jody

[Steve1968LS2]

Tone inflection has a lot to do with it. Sometimes the way you say something could be taken as a belligerent comment when you were only trying to be funny. It may not have been a tasteful joke, but you certainly didn't mean any harm by it. But how are they to know? One often needs to remind oneself that just because you've had correspondence with someone on a message board for a couple of years doesn't mean you actually KNOW that person. Until you've met face to face a few times, you are still only an acquaintance. So you have to be careful what you joke about or how you respond to certain things. Believe me; I've learned my lesson about this more than a few times. Over a year ago I made a joke about Charlie's wealth on a different Message Board and he took genuine offense to it (something about the rich getting richer or something like that). It was probably not a wise joke to make towards someone that I don't know personally. I truly meant no harm and thought he'd get a chuckle from the comment but how was he to know that I was joking? If it had been a close friend of his maybe he would have blown it off but coming from some guy that he only knows as a username on a Message Board, he has to question it. I don't blame him for getting miffed at it. In retrospect, I probably would have reacted the same way.

I'm sure John's a good guy and I'm not going to let one comment sink him in my opinion. A review of his post before hitting 'submit' may have seen the term 'ugly baby' removed before the post even made it into the thread...then we wouldn't even be talking about this. Give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure he's learned from this as we all have.

Screw you!!

;) <-- this is what indicates that the comment was mostly in fun..

And yes, I am sure John is a good guy.. he shouldn't pay for one mis-step.. hell I make them on a regular basis.. :unibrow:

[zbugger]

Tony,

I'm a good friend of Charleys and he still calls me a "jackass"!!! :D

Jody
Damn. You're lucky. He still calls me an asshole. Then again, I may live up to that. And we don't know eachother all that well. And he's bigger than me too. And... I guess I'll leave it at that. Odds are I won't be allowed within 50 miles of him at all times if I keep going....