Thermal Arc Fabricator 3 IN 1

[mustangracer11]

What is everyone's opinion on this welder. I have been thinking about getting one.
http://airgasoutlet.com/products/tac...d2&fo_s=gplaus

[ccracin]

Bad link.

[mustangracer11]

http://airgasoutlet.com/products/tacw1003181?gclid=CL-rleLQrr0CFZRr7AodRC4A-Q#fo_c=292&fo_k=6ac8b4fde27eefc65b3169dcf7e3abd2&fo_s=gplaus

[Build-It-Break-it]

I don't have the thermal arc 3 in 1 but I do have the thermal arc 186 and love it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again.

[sageygts]

I have owned the thermal arc 181i for close to a year know. I am very happy with it.

[Solid LT1]

After looking over and getting a demo session with a TA 211i at Madco Welding supply in Mtn View, CA I did some soul searching but, in the end I went with a Miller Multimatic 200. The miller is easily reconfigured to do DC TIG and it's already set up with a gas soleniod for running TIG, where the TA isn't set up nor did they make any retro fit provisions to add a TIG gas soleniod later. The TA 252i has provisions for both but didn't have the portability or dual voltage ability of the 211ii/Miller MM200. Madco has both a Miller and TA in stock if anyone else wants to compare the 2 machines.

[GregWeld]

As USUAL you get what you pay for....


Welders and Plasma Cutters etc are items that you really only want to buy once. IF you buy a machine that isn't capable to doing what you GROW into doing... you'll end up unhappy. Having said that - there's no reason to buy a TIG machine that's capable of welding 1/2" aluminum when you're NEVER going to weld something like that. If the need arrises you can always take something like that to a welding shop and have it done. That would be like buying a Bridgeport Mill for shaving off an 1/16" on three parts....


There are REASONS for machines being "less expensive" (i.e., CHEAP) -- and it has to do with duty cycle.... and arc stability.... and wire feed motors... and the torch that is or isn't included... or the cart and on and on. All companies are competitive whenever possible... but the good ones can't possibly compete with some offshore Chinese import.

[GregWeld]

BTW -- Thermal Arc is a good company and makes good products.

The fact that it's "3 in 1" is just a marketing/sales material ploy. Many of the good machines can do ARC/TIG/MIG.... Not sure why anyone would want to ARC but if you look into it many machines have that capability. Just know that something that does multiple "things" -- there's going to be trade offs... such as set up time -- or things that while it can do "TIG" for example - it may not have a pulse option or slope settings... or any number of other functions that you might want down the road. So when comparing - make sure you know WHAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING... rather than what it "can" do. The THERMAL ARC machine you asked about can NOT do A/C TIG.... so you can not do aluminum. To me that is why I own a TIG machine... so that I can make or repair something that is aluminum. But that's up to you to make that decision. I'm just giving you food for thought.

To me ARC welding capability is like my Gas welding set up.... the only time it ever gets used is to heat something I need to bend. Weld with it? WTF would I want to do that for? LOL

[DRJDVM's '69]

Jack of all trades... Master of none....

Never been a big fan of "multi-tools" in general...

[mustangracer11]

Thanks for the advice GregWeld, I had my mind set on buying a Miller 180 autoset but saw the Thermal Arc that can tig weld also for about the same price. I've never tig welded before but would like to learn and by your post i've got a lot to learn because I don't know what pulse option or slope settings mean. I can do pretty good at mig and arc welding though. It will be a while before I can buy anything so I've got time to learn.

[GregWeld]

The machine you were looking at is probably a real decent machine... if that's all you want out of your welding skill set.


TIG is a fascinating way to weld and takes some skill - but nothing everyone can't learn... it's just more "technical" than MIG.

Personally I'd rather see someone get a real decent MIG machine ---- and be able to use that machine for years. A good TIG machine is very expensive and can do wonderful things but most people really don't need one. It's a very nice option when you already have all the other stuff you NEED.

A MIG machine - the right one - is capable of welding Stainless Steel.... with SS wire and a SS "mix" for gas.... and can also weld aluminum with a spool gun and Argon gas (better with pulsed MIG)... and of course it will do a great job on mild steel with CO2/argon gas and the right wire for the job.

[mustangracer11]

After looking over and getting a demo session with a TA 211i at Madco Welding supply in Mtn View, CA I did some soul searching but, in the end I went with a Miller Multimatic 200. The miller is easily reconfigured to do DC TIG and it's already set up with a gas soleniod for running TIG, where the TA isn't set up nor did they make any retro fit provisions to add a TIG gas soleniod later. The TA 252i has provisions for both but didn't have the portability or dual voltage ability of the 211ii/Miller MM200. Madco has both a Miller and TA in stock if anyone else wants to compare the 2 machines.

What is the gas solenoid used for? How would one work without it and better with it?

[GregWeld]

What is the gas solenoid used for? How would one work without it and better with it?



You MIG and TIG weld with inert gases... MIG uses a mixed gas of Co2/Argon -- and TIG uses straight Argon. You need a gas solenoid to open the gas flow when welding and shut it off after your post gassing period.

[mustangracer11]

You MIG and TIG weld with inert gases... MIG uses a mixed gas of Co2/Argon -- and TIG uses straight Argon. You need a gas solenoid to open the gas flow when welding and shut it off after your post gassing period.

I understand that. I'm confused by his post saying that the thermal arc doesn't have a gas solenoid. If it doesn't have one I'm guessing you would have to use flux core wire for mig and a rod with flux for tig is that right?

[GregWeld]

It comes with a "regulator and gauge" --- so you'd still be welding with gas but you'd be just manually turning it on at the tank and letting it run.... with a SOLENOID it would be controlled electrically and gas would only flow when you were welding.

It'd be a gas pig - without a solenoid.

Remember my statement -- you get what you pay for? You often times don't get what you don't pay for. LOL

[cwylie]

So I will give you the quick version on my Mig story and why I will always buy a Miller.

A few years ago I decided I wanted a welder and found a decent price Miller 175 on craigslist. I buddy had one and liked it so I figured it would be a good place to start. I went and picked it up and it made an arc but I didnt really know how to weld so I assumed it worked and walked away with it. When I got home and got it working I realized something was off. It was feeding way too much wire so I started looking around online. Its a common problem on the early 175s and to fix it you can either repair the control board or buy a new revised one from miller for $500.

Well I sent the control board off to be rebuilt and I got it back a few days later. I got it hooked up to the machine and off I went it was working much better and it did for about 5 hours. Then it had the exact same problem again. I sent the control board off again for repair and got it back. This time it worked for about an hour then quit again.

I contacted miller this time and they looked up the serial number. The welder was about 10 years old so far outside of their 3 year warranty. They helped me walk through several test on the motor and the controls to make sure they were not causing the problem with the control board. Nothing was wrong with anything else from what we could find. I was frustrated as all hell because I had spent $500 to buy the welder and I needed to spend $500 for a new control board. For $1000 I could have just bought a new one. I send them an email back explaining everything that happened and how I was pretty sure the guy I bought it from knew about the issue. I thanked them for their time and help and said I needed to get a new control board. I asked if there were any discounts I could take advantage of.

The next morning I got an email response asking for my address and saying they would ship me a new control board. It was signed by someone with the last name Miller so I am not sure if that was just by chance or if he was actually one of the Millers. Two days later a new control board showed up and the welder ran great for me for the last 2 years. Their customer service was top notch and you dont get customer service like that much anymore. They knew the welder was out of warranty (by 7 years) and I was not the original owner yet still they spent the time to help me and even sent me parts on their dime.

Long and short of it was that when it came time to upgrade I didnt even question what brand I was going to purchase. I went to the welding supply shop and picked up a Miller 211. There are cheaper machines out there and machines they may do a little more but I have been very happy with my decision.

[mustangracer11]

That makes sense now. It doesn't make sense not to have one though

[GregWeld]

So I will give you the quick version on my Mig story and why I will always buy a Miller.

A few years ago I decided I wanted a welder and found a decent price Miller 175 on craigslist. I buddy had one and liked it so I figured it would be a good place to start. I went and picked it up and it made an arc but I didnt really know how to weld so I assumed it worked and walked away with it. When I got home and got it working I realized something was off. It was feeding way too much wire so I started looking around online. Its a common problem on the early 175s and to fix it you can either repair the control board or buy a new revised one from miller for $500.

Well I sent the control board off to be rebuilt and I got it back a few days later. I got it hooked up to the machine and off I went it was working much better and it did for about 5 hours. Then it had the exact same problem again. I sent the control board off again for repair and got it back. This time it worked for about an hour then quit again.

I contacted miller this time and they looked up the serial number. The welder was about 10 years old so far outside of their 3 year warranty. They helped me walk through several test on the motor and the controls to make sure they were not causing the problem with the control board. Nothing was wrong with anything else from what we could find. I was frustrated as all hell because I had spent $500 to buy the welder and I needed to spend $500 for a new control board. For $1000 I could have just bought a new one. I send them an email back explaining everything that happened and how I was pretty sure the guy I bought it from knew about the issue. I thanked them for their time and help and said I needed to get a new control board. I asked if there were any discounts I could take advantage of.

The next morning I got an email response asking for my address and saying they would ship me a new control board. It was signed by someone with the last name Miller so I am not sure if that was just by chance or if he was actually one of the Millers. Two days later a new control board showed up and the welder ran great for me for the last 2 years. Their customer service was top notch and you dont get customer service like that much anymore. They knew the welder was out of warranty (by 7 years) and I was not the original owner yet still they spent the time to help me and even sent me parts on their dime.

Long and short of it was that when it came time to upgrade I didnt even question what brand I was going to purchase. I went to the welding supply shop and picked up a Miller 211. There are cheaper machines out there and machines they may do a little more but I have been very happy with my decision.




Great story and thank you for sharing.....




Couple things about "tools" in general that I've always found to be true. You get what you pay for. You never know what you don't get until you need to find out (kinda like insurance huh!). When your machine is 6 years old --- and needs something -- can you get parts for it? Will anyone be around to call and even ask?

These things aren't cheap - even when they're cheap! It's a tool that will provide you great dividends for many many years. Buy a good one and you'll probably never NEED to buy another until you just want to.

While a good welder can weld with almost anything --- a good welder and power supply does help a welder that isn't maybe so hot. Better to be able to grow into your machine than outgrow it and be left wanting.

[Solid LT1]

The Thermal Arc has a gas solenoid for the MIG gun but changing over to DC TIG operation their is no provision for a gas solenoid meaning you will have a manual screw valve on your TIG torch handle to turn on/off the shielding gas. Learning to TIG weld is hard enough and a partial shutoff of the valve if undetected will drain your tank if left overnight ( usually a Friday night of a 3 day holiday weekend with project needing to be done by the previous Wedensday )

The Miller Multimatic 200 has both solenoids for MIG and TIG operations. I think the TA211i is a decent machine but Thermal Arc was just taken over by ESAB and based on my experiences with my ESAB plasma cutter, I'll stick with Miller.

[Revved]

So I will give you the quick version on my Mig story and why I will always buy a Miller.

A few years ago I decided I wanted a welder and found a decent price Miller 175 on craigslist. I buddy had one and liked it so I figured it would be a good place to start. I went and picked it up and it made an arc but I didnt really know how to weld so I assumed it worked and walked away with it. When I got home and got it working I realized something was off. It was feeding way too much wire so I started looking around online. Its a common problem on the early 175s and to fix it you can either repair the control board or buy a new revised one from miller for $500.

Well I sent the control board off to be rebuilt and I got it back a few days later. I got it hooked up to the machine and off I went it was working much better and it did for about 5 hours. Then it had the exact same problem again. I sent the control board off again for repair and got it back. This time it worked for about an hour then quit again.

I contacted miller this time and they looked up the serial number. The welder was about 10 years old so far outside of their 3 year warranty. They helped me walk through several test on the motor and the controls to make sure they were not causing the problem with the control board. Nothing was wrong with anything else from what we could find. I was frustrated as all hell because I had spent $500 to buy the welder and I needed to spend $500 for a new control board. For $1000 I could have just bought a new one. I send them an email back explaining everything that happened and how I was pretty sure the guy I bought it from knew about the issue. I thanked them for their time and help and said I needed to get a new control board. I asked if there were any discounts I could take advantage of.

The next morning I got an email response asking for my address and saying they would ship me a new control board. It was signed by someone with the last name Miller so I am not sure if that was just by chance or if he was actually one of the Millers. Two days later a new control board showed up and the welder ran great for me for the last 2 years. Their customer service was top notch and you dont get customer service like that much anymore. They knew the welder was out of warranty (by 7 years) and I was not the original owner yet still they spent the time to help me and even sent me parts on their dime.

Long and short of it was that when it came time to upgrade I didnt even question what brand I was going to purchase. I went to the welding supply shop and picked up a Miller 211. There are cheaper machines out there and machines they may do a little more but I have been very happy with my decision.

Great Story!! Service Sells! That board probably cost them $200 or less but they earned a customer for life and I'm sure you've shared that story dozens of times and now posted it online. They can't buy advertising like that!

I've had a Diversion 165 for about 2-3 years now and beyond being a lightweight machine it does everything I need for the time being (I have pushed it a bit and TIG'd some 1/4" cosmetic stuff) but I've been very happy with the machine.

Greg made a great comment about a TIG machine not being able to operate in AC mode for aluminum and that floors me... Why would anyone bother to make a TIG that couldn't do aluminum and who would buy it unless it was a highly specialized machine for a specific purpose? I would have never thought to look for something like that if I was just getting into TIG.

[Ron Sutton]

Greg made a good point about combination welders.

When I was a wee lad of 19, starting my first chassis shop business in 1982, I needed a MIG welder & a TIG welder. I was short on money ... and short on experience buying equipment.

I bought a "combination MIG/TIG/ARC welder."

It could do all 3 ... poor to moderately ... but none of them well. In short order I had to buy a dedicated quality MIG welder & a dedicated quality TIG welder. I later sold the combo welder for pennies on the dollar.

What I got out of the experience was wasted money, time delays and an education.


:cheers:

[darrinf]

I have the 181i and it works fine for what I'm doing. If I were doing a lot of fab work I'd have gotten a higher quality Miller MIG and perhaps a dedicated TIG as well. I needed a machine to do light fab on my project, including welding a bracket to the firewall, patching the tunnel - which are both thin gauge material, made my own trans crossmember and welded brackets on the rearend housing. Basically nothing over 1/4" thick and all carbon steel. I do plan to weld my stainless exhaust so the TIG function is nice. I do agree with all the comments about getting what you pay for. If I wanted to spend a few thousand on a high quality welder I would have, certainly nothing wrong with that. Of course I did have to fix the wire feed already - one of the gears is pressed on to a knurled shaft, and the gear started slipping. Other than that it's worked fine.

[Revved]

To me ARC welding capability is like my Gas welding set up.... the only time it ever gets used is to heat something I need to bend. Weld with it? WTF would I want to do that for? LOL

I have always wondered why they keep the ARC capability on those welders... I guess everyone needs pipe fences but I would think that MIG would be so much more efficient at this point.

One interesting thing I learned up at Mark Gerish's Metal Shaping Academy is that many old school panel beaters prefer gas when they have to weld on aluminum panels they are fabricating because TIG keeps the heat so close to the weld that the metal becomes brittle relative to the rest of the metal and is more prone to cracking when working the panel. Gas welding apparently distributes the heat more evenly and this isn't an issue.