Food for thought...safety equipment

[Damn True]

A friend just posted this on Twitter.

Low (relatively) speed crash

No HANS wearing driver on the left, HANS wearing co-driver on the right

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhf428YIMAEN_Sk.png:large

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE

I'd been debating whether or not to get a HANS for use in my car (eventually) for track days. Debate is over.

[Track Junky]

That's a great post True. I've been debating also but the truth is in the pudding right there.
I'd like to see some examples of different Hans devices. The one and only turn off(only from what I have heard) is the limitation of being able to turn your head from left to right.
Hopefully we can get some here to chime in.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

7 lbs head + 12 lbs helmet = snapped stem. Easy elementary school arithmetic.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The one and only turn off(only from what I have heard) is the limitation of being able to turn your head from left to right.


Mirrors :hitaxeonthehead:

I like the idea of being able to move your head at all after something happens.

[Shmoov69]

WoW! That might leave a mark!! Really tho, will the brain keep moving in the skull more with a Hans? Just thinking out loud.

[Damn True]

WoW! That might leave a mark!! Really tho, will the brain keep moving in the skull more with a Hans? Just thinking out loud.

Whether you get a concussion or not is immaterial after the basal skull fracture.

[Damn True]

That's a great post True. I've been debating also but the truth is in the pudding right there.
I'd like to see some examples of different Hans devices. The one and only turn off(only from what I have heard) is the limitation of being able to turn your head from left to right.
Hopefully we can get some here to chime in.

The Gen II devices all have sliding tethers. Turning your head is no problem.

[Flash68]

A HANS is certainly on my list, but just playing devil's advocate here.... is that a cornfield in Iowa? :sieg:

That looks like some backyard dirt road vs the nicer tracks most of us round here are running or plan to run our cars on.

Another point to take is knowing the run off and and overall setup of the track you plan to run on. Greg always like to say that he likes Thunderhill because it is nice smooth well maintained track with sufficient and smooth runoff.

But, good post True, definitely something that should be on many shopping lists.

[ironworks]

Its ironic you guys bring this up. I was in a pretty scary roll over last week in my UTV while pre-running for my first desert race last friday. I think this Hans - or the Simpson hybrid I was wearing really saved my neck.

I was on my 3rd lap on a 30 mile course at mile marker 24 when I was chasing a some green UTV in his dust trying to pass him when I ran upon a 24" tall speed bump at about 40 mph. I had about 6 foot notice as the guy in front of me must have slowed down to go over it and the dust cleared for just a second. I slammed on the brakes and the front tires climbed the bump and the UTV did a complete flip and landed squarely on the roof collapsing the cage just a little and then continued the forward momentum as it just grazed the back apron and flipped back on its wheels. The impact into the roof was pretty stout.

Both myself and my co driver had neck restrains on and that really slows down the travel speed of you neck by limiting you travel. We drove away from the incident slowly on an off track back road back to the pits to find the impact had unplugged wire connections under the dash and taco'd my cell phone. They want you to keep a cell phone on you to call for help if needed and the radio connection wont work. So I had the phone in my front pocket of my race suit for safe keeping.

You can see the roof damage in this picture. You can not see that the spreader bars on the cage are bent about .25 of an inch in the middle. I hugged the cage builder on Monday morning after winning my class and finishing 7th overall. I will always race with some kind of neck restraint, its just not worth it.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/ironworksspeed002/Pure125-Start.jpg (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/ironworksspeed/media/ironworksspeed002/Pure125-Start.jpg.html)

[Damn True]

A HANS is certainly on my list, but just playing devil's advocate here.... is that a cornfield in Iowa? :sieg:

That looks like some backyard dirt road vs the nicer tracks most of us round here are running or plan to run our cars on.

Another point to take is knowing the run off and and overall setup of the track you plan to run on. Greg always like to say that he likes Thunderhill because it is nice smooth well maintained track with sufficient and smooth runoff.

But, good post True, definitely something that should be on many shopping lists.

It's a rally stage. Judging by the dress of the observers I'd say northern Europe.

They slid off a dirt road at what looks like no more than 50mph max and came to an abrupt halt in a roadside ditch. In the normal course of circulating Thunderhill, and most tracks for that matter, the runoffs are pretty broad. But.....

Penalty points are pretty high in a number of places at Infineon and Laguna.

If a car spins in front of you and you hit it, or in the course of avoiding it go off in an area where the runoff isn't so broad?

If something on your car fails? Here's my friend Mike Hedlund losing the brakes on an exceptionally well prepared 911 in the 2012 25hr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrveASsJMZ0 He did everything as right as he could and missed all but a bit of barbed wire...Im pretty sure I'd not perform as well (which is why he's testing a 458 GT3 this week and I'm not)

Lot's of stuff can (and often does) go bad on track. The "Well I won't be going all out so...." that many in our community use to talk themselves out of safety equipment seems horribly naive and short sighted.

[Track Junky]

The Gen II devices all have sliding tethers. Turning your head is no problem.

Sliding tethers sounds like the way to go for me and I recommend this style to all. Nothing like not feeling comfortable behind the wheel. I have trouble enough with window nets. I cant stand them.
The Hans also looks like they adjust from 10-40* degrees in 5* increments which will help with different seat combinations.

[Ron Sutton]

I can't say enough about HANS devices & Full Containment Seats. They have saved a ton of lives ... and a ton of hurt families ... since their introduction.

.

[BMR Sales]

Sliding tethers sounds like the way to go for me and I recommend this style to all. Nothing like not feeling comfortable behind the wheel. I have trouble enough with window nets. I cant stand them.
The Hans also looks like they adjust from 10-40* degrees in 5* increments which will help with different seat combinations.

The HANS that adjusts is the Pro Model. The Sliding Tehers I think come on all HANS now. I've had a HANS for about 10 Years and it gave me the Confidence to get back behind the Wheel of a Race Car after suffering a Neck Injury that required Surgery. I got used to no Sliding Tethers as well as the feel of HANS itself quickly. When I'm Instructing, I will Not get into a Car that doesn't have the Correct Seat & Belts to use with a HANS.

T.C.

[SBDave]

I run a Hans with sliding tethers. Had it for a couple years now and love it. I freaked out before my last race (about a month ago) because I felt like I had too much motion and wondered if I needed a shorter tether. Their website made it sound like I did not. Only issue I have had with mine is that my shoulder belts tend to slide off the Hans. I think the newer models have bigger 'wings' to help with this.

Don't know if this will work or not but here's the race car (Class 10 buggy):
http://instagram.com/p/jYJ_J3Afpy/

-Dave

[Damn True]

Are you running a 3" harness? 2.5" shoulder belts help a lot. I don't like putting 3" shoulder harnesses in endurance cars. Awfully easy when in the course of doing a driver change to have a shoulder belt slip off w/o being noticed in the commotion of a pit stop. A 3hr stint is a lot of jostling around. 3" belts seem to slip off sometimes. I imagine your carcass moves around as much, if not a whole lot more in that rig than a sports car drivers does. (except at Sebring)

http://www.schrothracing.com/competition/profi/profi-III

Don't know if 2.5" is legal in the OR world. It is in FIA, SCCA, NASA. If you have to use 3", make the most of the graphic below.

Another thing to check is the angle the harness leaves (heading aft) the hans. It should be 1-2" below horizontal. That can be tough to uniformly achieve if you have multiple drivers of differing torso lengths. Key harness config measurements below:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/untitled.jpg

[intocarss]

I've been pushing head and neck restraints for years!! BUT most don't want to listen :hairpullout: CAN'T RACE IF YOU'RE DEAD!! :hello:

[SBDave]

I'm not sure what thicknesses the belts are but they are set up pretty close to those guidelines. I'm the smallest guy that rides in the car and the other guy in my seat has at least 75lbs on me. Our belts have a chest buckle that I have to run all the way cinched. It helps but I still have some issues. I prefer having the lap belts spread most of the load on my legs and the shoulder belts snug enough to keep pressure on the harness.
Another pic for good measure.

Dave

[Che70velle]

I use a Hutchins device, because when the HANS came out, they were simply too expensive, and I didn't like the feel or fit. I brought my car home in a box one Saturday night, hitting the wall pretty much as head on as you can get, at about 65 mph. The Hutchins device I was wearing did its job. My brother actually bought me the device, right after Earnhardt's accident. The first thing I did when I got back to the hauler was tell him thank you for buying me the Hutchins.
I'll tell you boldly to your face that if your not building a safe race car, and equipping it AND yourself with all the safety features that are available, then your simply fooling yourself. If you race long enough, you WILL crash.
Great thread!!

[71RS/SS396]

That's a great post True. I've been debating also but the truth is in the pudding right there.
I'd like to see some examples of different Hans devices. The one and only turn off(only from what I have heard) is the limitation of being able to turn your head from left to right.
Hopefully we can get some here to chime in.

You'll get use to it real fast, I don't even know it's there anymore. I wouldn't feel comfortable on a course anymore without it.

[71RS/SS396]

I can't say enough about HANS devices & Full Containment Seats. They have saved a ton of lives ... and a ton of hurt families ... since their introduction.

.

I agree I've seen some fairly minor crashes result in serious injuries due to the lack of safety equipment. I researching seats now that I can install in the car for track use and switch back to the recaros for the street.

[Flash68]

Lot's of stuff can (and often does) go bad on track. The "Well I won't be going all out so...." that many in our community use to talk themselves out of safety equipment seems horribly naive and short sighted.

I tried on the Sport and the Pro versions (HANS) at Wine Country and I believe the weight diff is about 1 lb or so. Could barely tell the difference, but the price was about $400 or so different.

[Tom.A]

After watching that video it does make me think I should get one. A quick scan of Summit shows anywhere from $600.00 to $1200.00. Seems like a big gap and I have some reading (many choices) to do but does anyone a quick review of what they picked?

[Damn True]

I tried on the Sport and the Pro versions (HANS) at Wine Country and I believe the weight diff is about 1 lb or so. Could barely tell the difference, but the price was about $400 or so different.


No difference in their ability to protect you. The delta is mainly in comfort and hardware.

One think to keep in mind is comfort in your seat. We have a driver that just cannot wear a HANS in our car. The combo of his body and our seat doesn't work for him...doesn't bother anyone else but he has a NecksGen that he wears only when racing our car.

Wait to buy your device until you can strap yourself in (tight as hell) with a HANS on.

.....point being, you want to make sure you actually wear it. If it isn't comfortable you are more likely to blow it off.

[Track Junky]

No difference in their ability to protect you.

One think to keep in mind is comfort in your seat. We have a driver that just cannot wear a HANS in our car. The combo of his body and our seat doesn't work for him...doesn't bother anyone else but he has a NecksGen that he wears only when racing our car.

Wait to buy your device until you can strap yourself in (tight as hell) with a HANS on.

.....point being, you want to make sure you actually wear it. If it isn't comfortable you are more likely to blow it off.

I've heard that.....Hans and seat need to work hand and hand. I think you just confirmed my suspicions.....hence the adjustable HANS.

[Damn True]

I've heard that.....Hans and seat need to work hand and hand. I think you just confirmed my suspicions.....hence the adjustable HANS.

Don't be unequivocal about it. I know a few guys, very skinny dudes, that don't dig HANS and prefer the Safety Solutions. In their case, very little upper body musculature results in the HANS digging into the collar bones.

Try a few, again, strapped in tight as hell into your car.

Don't freakin buy online. It ain't worth saving $50 if you don't know EXACTLY what fits.

[intocarss]

Don't be unequivocal about it. I know a few guys, very skinny dudes, that don't dig HANS and prefer the Safety Solutions. In their case, very little upper body musculature results in the HANS digging into the collar bones.

Try a few, again, strapped in tight as hell into your car.

Don't freakin buy online. It ain't worth saving $50 if you don't know EXACTLY what fits.
The lady at Hans told me if you are over 210# and have a bigger chest to wear A 30*. I was 215# with an up right seat and the 20* dug into me.. I went to a 30* and it was a great fit

[Damn True]

I should say that I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from getting a HANS in favor of something else. I've no dog in that fight. Frankly, HANS is the best solution in most cases, but there are a few cases when it isn't.

What I'm saying is that you should ensure that whatever you get is the absolute best possible fit for you and your car. If it isn't comfortable, if it isn't transparent, if it annoys or distracts, you'll be less likely to wear it all the time. And that one time you don't because (whatever) may be the time someone else makes a mistake in front of you.

[SBDave]

To those that race and use these devices I'm curious how long a typical race is (and what kind of racing your doing). In my off road races I'm in the car 3hrs minimum with no breaks unless we flat (or need to pit). So weight of items becomes more critical (helmet in particular... Hans not so much).

Dave

[GregWeld]

To those that race and use these devices I'm curious how long a typical race is (and what kind of racing your doing). In my off road races I'm in the car 3hrs minimum with no breaks unless we flat (or need to pit). So weight of items becomes more critical (helmet in particular... Hans not so much).

Dave



Dave -- Good question.

At the track days I've been too --- 20 minute sessions... with 40 or so minutes in between.


I have a carbon fiber helmet -- recently bought - because of the Lotus being open cockpit and the high wind velocities hitting my fat little head --- and I also bought a HANS device. My regular helmet works(ed) just fine in the Mustang... and in there - it's difficult to get the helmet and HANS on --- so I gave up using the HANS in the Mustang. After watching the video -- I'm going back to wearing it regardless of how difficult it seems to be. Because it just isn't that hard.

[GregWeld]

The Gen II devices all have sliding tethers. Turning your head is no problem.




I can turn my head plenty --- way more than I need to - WITH my HANS on.

[Damn True]

To those that race and use these devices I'm curious how long a typical race is (and what kind of racing your doing). In my off road races I'm in the car 3hrs minimum with no breaks unless we flat (or need to pit). So weight of items becomes more critical (helmet in particular... Hans not so much).

Dave

The endurance racing car that I work with runs about 2:45 to 3:00 stints on fuel (depending on the track and FCY's). The longest we've run is 3:20 at Miller.

So at Thunderhill, that's about 90 laps and 1350 corners.

Most cars can't run as long as us on fuel. Most are at/around 2hrs and will sometimes double stint a driver. We can't double stint, 6hrs is just too long so we change drivers on every stop. Our best drivers will wind up with 3 stints and one or two of them will have 2 stints for a 25hr race.

[Damn True]

Dave -- Good question.

At the track days I've been too --- 20 minute sessions... with 40 or so minutes in between.


I have a carbon fiber helmet -- recently bought - because of the Lotus being open cockpit and the high wind velocities hitting my fat little head --- and I also bought a HANS device. My regular helmet works(ed) just fine in the Mustang... and in there - it's difficult to get the helmet and HANS on --- so I gave up using the HANS in the Mustang. After watching the video -- I'm going back to wearing it regardless of how difficult it seems to be. Because it just isn't that hard.

It can be a bear getting in/out of some cars with a HANS and helmet on and in some cars you can't put it on once you are in the car. It's less trouble though than being a quadriplegic....or worse. Good decision.

[BMR Sales]

A tough thing to do when wearing a HANS is fastening your Belts especially in a Multi-Driver Car. The Fact that you can see down makes finding the Belts tough.

[Damn True]

A tough thing to do when wearing a HANS is fastening your Belts especially in a Multi-Driver Car. The Fact that you can see down makes finding the Belts tough.

Yep. This why nearly all endurance teams use 1-2 assistants for the driver change. In most cases the driver hops in and puts his hands up while the attendants fasten and snug the belts, they'll then put a hand on the belt over the HANS to ensure it stays in place while the driver reefs down on the shoulder adjusters.

[GregWeld]

It's the same reason I let Charley race with me.... he has to help me with my belts and make sure the hood pins are in - and checks my tire pressures.

[Track Junky]

It's the same reason I let Charley race with me.... he has to help me with my belts and make sure the hood pins are in - and checks my tire pressures.

Cant wait till Charley sees this one :lol:

[intocarss]

Hans *

[GregWeld]

The "degrees" are for SEAT position.... not body shape. Although I would add that they could certainly be used for certain body types I guess... They need to be comfortable.


There's some VERY good information in this video -- and watching it is worthwhile.



RSW-9tbrfJI

[intocarss]

I know GW, I was just showing the difference in them.

[GregWeld]

I know GW, I was just showing the difference in them.




YOU know and I know - others read these threads that maybe don't.... So I always like to post as though there's 10 gazillion people reading that would like more, or complete, info.

[Track Junky]

Thanks for posting the vid Greg. :thumbsup:

[DaleTx]

Thanks for posting the video Greg. I am planning to buy a new helmet and Hans device in the next couple of weeks, and the info in the video was very helpful. I had no idea the Hans device was available in all the different widths and angles :thumbsup: