LS Swap headers

[67Rally]

I just posted this on Pro-Touring, but I figured the more answers I get, the better, so here's a re-post...

I have a cheap set of eBay headers I used on my '67 Camaro last year. I think the flanges are warped causing exhaust leaks, and I'm in the market for a new set of headers. I'd love to be in the $5-600 range.

I liked the idea of the new Hooker headers, but I'm not willing to swap out my almost new Holley oil pan (1st version) or my engine mounts/trans x-member. The Hooker/Holley stuff looks great, but they came out with it a year too late for me, so I'm looking at other brands.

Has anyone used the stainless steel LS headers from Texas speed in a 1st gen Camaro here? https://www.texas-speed.com/p-4273-texas-speed-performance-1-78-long-tube-headers-first-gen-f-body-1967-1969.aspx


https://www.texas-speed.com/images/product/large/4273_1_.png
https://www.texas-speed.com/images/product/large/4273_2_.png


Looking for pics of PS box clearance as well as how low they hang or how tight they tuck in relation to the subframe. Thanks.

----------------------------

FWIW, I have looked at the Dynatech headers I have heard they have great steering box clearance, but I have also heard they hang down too low.

I know Doug's makes a decent set of headers, and would be interested in seeing how those fit on a 1st gen if anyone has pics.

I'm open to other suggestions, but I'm not looking to pay a grand or more right now.

[fishface]

Don't have any experience with them but would like to hear from someone who has used them. Alot cheaper than Stainless Works if quality and fitment is good.

[IMPALA MAN]

Here are some details on the Dynatech Headers. Like any header brand, you must use the correct engine mounts, have the correct engine drive line angle, etc. It plays a huge role in how low the collectors hang, etc.
The link below will help you decide if your combination will work with these headers. As you can see in the link, the flange (at the head) and the bottom of the tubes and collector, do not run parallel, hence the headers are designed for the engine to be at an angle while the collectors run parallel with the sub frame.
These are in the $600.00 range.

FYI
I have seen some transmission combinations that force the customer to either replace the trans tunnel with a raised one, or live with a 5.5 degree engine drive line angle. In these cases the transmission is touching the trans. tunnel and the transmission is as high as it can go. Typically every degree of angle the engine gets tilted, it moves the collectors about 3/8" up or down. If you have an increased drive line angle, you may see low hanging collectors as a result.
These are in the $600.00 range.
Hope this helps.

http://afabcorp.com/Dynatech/lit/Dynatech_LSXCamaro.pdf

Best of Luck with your swap.

[fishface]

Some great info there. Much appreciated!!!

[67Rally]

Here are some details on the Dynatech Headers. Like any header brand, you must use the correct engine mounts, have the correct engine drive line angle, etc. It plays a huge role in how low the collectors hang, etc.
The link below will help you decide if your combination will work with these headers. As you can see in the link, the flange (at the head) and the bottom of the tubes and collector, do not run parallel, hence the headers are designed for the engine to be at an angle while the collectors run parallel with the sub frame.
These are in the $600.00 range.

FYI
I have seen some transmission combinations that force the customer to either replace the trans tunnel with a raised one, or live with a 5.5 degree engine drive line angle. In these cases the transmission is touching the trans. tunnel and the transmission is as high as it can go. Typically every degree of angle the engine gets tilted, it moves the collectors about 3/8" up or down. If you have an increased drive line angle, you may see low hanging collectors as a result.
These are in the $600.00 range.
Hope this helps.

http://afabcorp.com/Dynatech/lit/Dynatech_LSXCamaro.pdf

Best of Luck with your swap.

Thanks IMPALA MAN, those are helpful measurements.

I was able to get to 4* down on the trans before the driver's side exhaust pipe hit the trans x-member. I should be able to achieve 3* down once the exhaust is re-worked. The floors in my car were replaced before I bought it, and I think that gave me a little extra clearance.

FWIW, I have the tall & narrow frame mounts, Energy Suspension motor mounts, Dirty Dingo Sliders and BMR T56 adjustable trans x-member with an '04 GTO T56.

My cheapo eBay headers don't hang down too low. Maybe about 1/2 of the bottom tube on the collector sits below the subframe. It's just that they don't seal well, even with the GM manifold gaskets, and I had to dimple the pipes in 3 places to get them to fit around the PS box.

[Jr]

67 Rally,
Why don't you list which motor mounts ( both original and LS style swap mounts) oil pan, and power steering you have on the car. After we have all the info, we can help with what might fit better than what you currently have.

[67Rally]

67 Rally,
Why don't you list which motor mounts ( both original and LS style swap mounts) oil pan, and power steering you have on the car. After we have all the info, we can help with what might fit better than what you currently have.

Sorry, It's kind of scattered throughout this post, but I also a asked similar question on other forums and may have put more info there.

Frame Mounts: 3945507 & 3945508 (1969 350 and Z/28 tall & narrow)
Motor Mounts: Energy Suspension 3.1117G (tall & narrow)
Engine Plates: Dirty Dingo DD-Slider SBC to LS Conversion Engine Mounts
Oil Pan: Holley 302-1 GM LS Retro-fit Oil Pan
Trans X-Member: BMR TCC005 T56 Transmission Crossmember
PS Box: Delphi 670 PS Box (26088654)

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

I just posted this on Pro-Touring, but I figured the more answers I get, the better, so here's a re-post...

I have a cheap set of eBay headers I used on my '67 Camaro last year. I think the flanges are warped causing exhaust leaks, and I'm in the market for a new set of headers. I'd love to be in the $5-600 range.

I liked the idea of the new Hooker headers, but I'm not willing to swap out my almost new Holley oil pan (1st version) or my engine mounts/trans x-member. The Hooker/Holley stuff looks great, but they came out with it a year too late for me, so I'm looking at other brands.

Has anyone used the stainless steel LS headers from Texas speed in a 1st gen Camaro here? https://www.texas-speed.com/p-4273-texas-speed-performance-1-78-long-tube-headers-first-gen-f-body-1967-1969.aspx


https://www.texas-speed.com/images/product/large/4273_1_.png
https://www.texas-speed.com/images/product/large/4273_2_.png


Looking for pics of PS box clearance as well as how low they hang or how tight they tuck in relation to the subframe. Thanks.


I've been eyeing up the Texas Speed ones myself. I called them last week to try to get an installed picture but suposedly the guy who did the test fitting (and had is pix on his personal computer) was in Qatar or someplace. They were going to email him and ask for the pix but haven't gotten back to me yet. I'm going to give them another call this week and maybe you should too. If two of us are bugging them maybe they'll get the pictures.

On another note, can you have a local machine shop reface the flanges and clean them up so they are flat?

[Solid LT1]

I've been eyeing up the Texas Speed ones myself. I called them last week to try to get an installed picture but suposedly the guy who did the test fitting (and had is pix on his personal computer) was in Qatar or someplace. They were going to email him and ask for the pix but haven't gotten back to me yet. I'm going to give them another call this week and maybe you should too. If two of us are bugging them maybe they'll get the pictures.

On another note, can you have a local machine shop reface the flanges and clean them up so they are flat?

Qatar? More like Shenzein China from the looks of them! American Racing, Stainlessworks, Dynatech would be my first choices. Looking at the collectors alone....I wouldn't use these on a build of mine.

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Qatar? More like Shenzein China from the looks of them! American Racing, Stainlessworks, Dynatech would be my first choices. Looking at the collectors alone....I wouldn't use these on a build of mine.

The question I keep asking myself after researching all the different headers and mount combinations is:

Do I want to spend a house payment on headers that probably won't fit as advertised and have to be modified anyway or do I spend $400 instead on a set with lowered expectations, planning to make them fit?

That $400 set sounds pretty good.

[67Rally]

I posted a similar question on two other forums, and someone just posted pics of the Dynatech headers in a '69 Firebird with the recommended DSE mounts and 3* trans angle:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt250/rickpaw/67%20Firebird%20LS%20swap/P1010644_zpse9922b91.jpg (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/rickpaw/media/67%20Firebird%20LS%20swap/P1010644_zpse9922b91.jpg.html)

I don't have a good machine shop that I've worked with in the area. I'm going to swing by the exhaust shop later this week and see if they have any recomendations. If I mill my current flanges flat, I'll also have to dimple the headers near the PS box even nore in order to get closer to 3* on my trans angle.

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

I don't have a good machine shop that I've worked with in the area. I'm going to swing by the exhaust shop later this week and see if they have any recomendations. If I mill my current flanges flat, I'll also have to dimple the headers near the PS box even nore in order to get closer to 3* on my trans angle.

If you did have to dimple them more it wouldn't be much unless the flanges are warped more than I'm thinking and they had to remove a lot of material. I haven't seen yours of course but I'd guess it would be less than 1/16" but you could also use a thicker gasket. I think they make thicker ones like they do for head gaskets.

[67Rally]

If you did have to dimple them more it wouldn't be much unless the flanges are warped more than I'm thinking and they had to remove a lot of material. I haven't seen yours of course but I'd guess it would be less than 1/16" but you could also use a thicker gasket. I think they make thicker ones like they do for head gaskets.

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't very clear with that thought.

I had two reasons for looking at new headers. One is to get the flange to seal, but the other is because I'm currently at a 4* down angle on the trans. In order to shim the trans up another degree, I'll have to dimple the headers yet again.

I'm happy with my ground clearance:
Passenger:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/Headers037x_zps90ec3770.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/Headers037x_zps90ec3770.jpg.html)

Driver:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/Headers036x_zps46e9a4aa.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/Headers036x_zps46e9a4aa.jpg.html)


But this is what I'm dealing with for clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/Headers017x_zps4597e6fc.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/Headers017x_zps4597e6fc.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/Headers021x_zpscc990f52.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/Headers021x_zpscc990f52.jpg.html)

And here's what I had to do just to get that:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/Headers014x_zps35ac0046.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/Headers014x_zps35ac0046.jpg.html)

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't very clear with that thought.

I had two reasons for looking at new headers. One is to get the flange to seal, but the other is because I'm currently at a 4* down angle on the trans. In order to shim the trans up another degree, I'll have to dimple the headers yet again.

I'm happy with my ground clearance:


I see. What's wrong with 4° though? Are you getting some vibration or having trouble with angling the differential pinion up? I thought that 3°-5° was optimal? I haven't reached the part where I need to set angles yet but that's what I thought I read. Maybe I'm mistaken.

[67Rally]

I see. What's wrong with 4° though? Are you getting some vibration or having trouble with angling the differential pinion up? I thought that 3°-5° was optimal? I haven't reached the part where I need to set angles yet but that's what I thought I read. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I think 2-3* is optimal. I had vibrations initially, but resolved them with 4* pinion angle shims.

I just swapped out my 12 bolt for a Strange 60 (Dana 60). Since I need to reset my pinion angle, I figured now was the time to try to hit 3* on the trans. I need to order a new driveshaft, but don't want to do that until I know exactly where my engine/trans will sit. I can adjust the position of my engine 2-3" forward or back because my engine mounts and trans x-member are both adjustable.

Basically I want to position the engine around the ideal header location, then set the engine/trans angle and pinion angle and order the right length DS. And only do it once. :rolleyes:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

what are the part numbers on these dynatechs? all the ones i have seen/used for 1st gens have that tube going up and over the box.

[67Rally]

I posted a similar question on two other forums, and someone just posted pics of the Dynatech headers in a '69 Firebird with the recommended DSE mounts and 3* trans angle:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt250/rickpaw/67%20Firebird%20LS%20swap/P1010644_zpse9922b91.jpg (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/rickpaw/media/67%20Firebird%20LS%20swap/P1010644_zpse9922b91.jpg.html)


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/Headers017x_zps4597e6fc.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/Headers017x_zps4597e6fc.jpg.html)


what are the part numbers on these dynatechs? all the ones i have seen/used for 1st gens have that tube going up and over the box.

Vince, I'm not sure which post you're referring to. The top pic with the header's hanging super low are the Dynatech's and they are on someone else's '69 Firebird with the DSE mounts.

The one's I just post, those are not Dynatech's, they are the cheapo no-name ebay headers, Dirty Dingo Sliders, Energy Suspension mounts.

I'm trying to find a reasonably priced header that doesn't hang too low and has decent PS box clearance. I can move my engine forward/back 2-3" with the sliders and adjustable trans x-member, so I'm not locked into just one engine position.

[rickpaw]

I posted a similar question on two other forums, and someone just posted pics of the Dynatech headers in a '69 Firebird with the recommended DSE mounts and 3* trans angle:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt250/rickpaw/67%20Firebird%20LS%20swap/P1010644_zpse9922b91.jpg (http://s616.photobucket.com/user/rickpaw/media/67%20Firebird%20LS%20swap/P1010644_zpse9922b91.jpg.html)


what are the part numbers on these dynatechs? all the ones i have seen/used for 1st gens have that tube going up and over the box.

Vince, the above is a picture of Dynatech headers installed in my 67 firebird with Hotchkis 2" drop front/1.5" drop rear. Dynatech p/n 715-11410, using DSE mount 060401. The ground clearance is 2.5" to the lowest point on the header.

[Blake Foster]

We @ Speedtech recently test fit our LS subframe headers into a stock subframe with the 6700 steering box. and they fir with TONS of room.
and the road clearance is the best I have seen. the header on the pass side is only 5/8 below the stock subframe. the drive side is about flush.
here are some pics. They are stainless and are 999.00 but they FIT.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/killer72nova/DSC_0215_zpsa7e33ed8.jpg (http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/killer72nova/media/DSC_0215_zpsa7e33ed8.jpg.html)

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/killer72nova/DSC_0217_zps8af7dc60.jpg (http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/killer72nova/media/DSC_0217_zps8af7dc60.jpg.html)

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/killer72nova/DSC_0216_zpsfc694a47.jpg (http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/killer72nova/media/DSC_0216_zpsfc694a47.jpg.html)

[67Rally]

We @ Speedtech recently test fit our LS subframe headers into a stock subframe with the 6700 steering box. and they fir with TONS of room.
and the road clearance is the best I have seen. the header on the pass side is only 5/8 below the stock subframe. the drive side is about flush.
here are some pics. They are stainless and are 999.00 but they FIT.


Blake, those look great! More money than I really want to spend right now with all the other projects going on. But do you have pics of how they fit around the PS box?

[Blake Foster]

Blake, those look great! More money than I really want to spend right now with all the other projects going on. But do you have pics of how they fit around the PS box?

No I don't. but I think the closest tube was over an 1" away, sorry you'll have to take my word for it. sorry.
you certainly wont need your HAMMER to install them

[fishface]

Blake, price is ok with me as long as I dont have to fight it. Any ideas if a tru-turn system causes any problems??

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

:confused59: $900!

A house payment + property taxes for a month.

Why are headers so expensive? The only reason I can think of is the welding. That's crap though too because you don't get much of a discount (if any) if you by them unwelded. For the usually meager performance gains, headers seem to be the worst value out of anything you can bold on your engine besides dress-up pretty bits. Unfortunately, most manifolds won't work on a 1st gen so we are forced to buy headers.

If someone came up with a header design as that fits as nicely as those Speedtech ones appear to and put a reasonable price on them, they'd corner the market and make their money back in droves. Unfortunately, it seems that the manufacturers that have the best fitting units charge huge money for them and the ones that are more reasonably priced don't bother to make theirs fit any better which would put the more expensive ones out of the market. Makes no sense to me.

I'll stop ranting now.

[fishface]

Lol!! I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately there is very little we can do on these cars on the cheap. You wouldnt think to upgrade the stock subframe would cost more than the car was new but it is. The thing is we love these cars and would beg, borrow, steal or kill to improve them and that drives the market. I would still rather put $70k into my 69 than buy a new one for. $40k so I bite he bullet and burn the reciepts.

[Jay Hilliard]

Ultimate Headers may be another alternative. They are shorty style stainless headers. I believe several Lat-G members have used them on their builds. They have a pic on their website stating Mark Stielow is using them on his current project.

[chichirone]

Here is a pic of the Dynatech headers and DSE600 steering box. Plenty of clearance. Used DSE mounts. I'm pretty sure it is a 3* trans angle.

45797

Here is a pic from underneath. I don't have a side view yet but they are tucked up pretty tight.
45798

[rickpaw]

That's what strange thing I've noticed with Dynatech headers. Some people seem to have great clearance with the headers tuck up nice and tight. Then we have some people (myself included) have issues with them hanging too low.

I wondered if I have the wrong DSE mount, so I checked the p/n with the packing slip and they match.

Not sure what the deal is :hairpullout: I'll probably get a set of mid lengths and be done with it.

[mikespeed95]

Is it really just normal for these cars to all have the headers hanging down that low?

[Jay Hilliard]

That's what strange thing I've noticed with Dynatech headers. Some people seem to have great clearance with the headers tuck up nice and tight. Then we have some people (myself included) have issues with them hanging too low.

I wondered if I have the wrong DSE mount, so I checked the p/n with the packing slip and they match.

Not sure what the deal is :hairpullout: I'll probably get a set of mid lengths and be done with it.

Make sure you are using correct frame stands. There a 2 for SBC. Once for 307 engines and another for 302/350. This would have an effect on clearance around steering components.

[rickpaw]

Make sure you are using correct frame stands. There a 2 for SBC. Once for 307 engines and another for 302/350. This would have an effect on clearance around steering components.

I'm using the DSE motor mounts set, which included the frame stands/adapter plates/Prothane motor mounts. The DSE motor mount is the one recommended by Dynatech. I have no idea whether they're for SBC or BBC. The tech I talked to back then did not know either. All he said was they build the frame stands in house.

My issue is not clearance around steering components. It's the ground clearance. The OP (67rally) has issue with steering box clearance and he's thinking about Dynatech headers, which he may run into the same issue I'm having.

[rickpaw]

Here is a pic of the Dynatech headers and DSE600 steering box. Plenty of clearance. Used DSE mounts. I'm pretty sure it is a 3* trans angle.

Here is a pic from underneath. I don't have a side view yet but they are tucked up pretty tight.


Jay, can you please take some close up shots of the motor mounts, and perhaps measure the distance from the block (not oil pan) to the sub frame cross member?

[Jay Hilliard]

I don't have pics of the frame mounts. You can call some one like Matts Classic Bowtie's who sells Camaro parts to get specs on the frame stands.

[Wissing72]

Ultimate Headers may be another alternative. They are shorty style stainless headers. I believe several Lat-G members have used them on their builds. They have a pic on their website stating Mark Stielow is using them on his current project.

:thumbsup:
These are the flanges on the Ultimate Headers for my Chevelle. (totally different application using a RS chassis) Well built and good looking.
The ones that Blake showed are nice as well. Headers are one of those things that you are kind of stuck, either spend alot and get a good piece or buy some inexpensive ones and fight fitment and even worse... Leaks. Kinda comes down to what is your time and frustration level worth?
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/rebeccamhull/226_zpsac89d139.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/rebeccamhull/229_zpsba30ee83.jpg

[chichirone]

Jay, can you please take some close up shots of the motor mounts, and perhaps measure the distance from the block (not oil pan) to the sub frame cross member?

I will not be able to get up close pics for another week of so. I'll ask the shop to take a measurement from the block to the cross member.

These may be helpful in the meantime...

We had to clearance the DSE motor mount.
45834

We had to clearance the oil cooler by dimpling the header tube
45836

Better angle of how tight the headers fit
45837
45838

[Blake Foster]

Blake, price is ok with me as long as I dont have to fight it. Any ideas if a tru-turn system causes any problems??

NO IDEA we don't use the truturn so I cant help you there

[Blake Foster]

:confused59: $900!

A house payment + property taxes for a month.

Why are headers so expensive? The only reason I can think of is the welding. That's crap though too because you don't get much of a discount (if any) if you by them unwelded. For the usually meager performance gains, headers seem to be the worst value out of anything you can bold on your engine besides dress-up pretty bits. Unfortunately, most manifolds won't work on a 1st gen so we are forced to buy headers.

If someone came up with a header design as that fits as nicely as those Speedtech ones appear to and put a reasonable price on them, they'd corner the market and make their money back in droves. Unfortunately, it seems that the manufacturers that have the best fitting units charge huge money for them and the ones that are more reasonably priced don't bother to make theirs fit any better which would put the more expensive ones out of the market. Makes no sense to me.

I'll stop ranting now.

You get what you pay for, the headman header for 169.00 what do they fit? even the Hooker comp 69 Camaro headers are a joke. it is like anything. if you want quality you have to pay for it. you could build your own stainless headers for about 2000.00 to 2500 depending on what material and how tight the chassis is 900 is a deal.
Not ripping on you but someone had to take the time to design the part and actually put it on a car to see if it fits, then do all the fixturing, all the test bends, throw away 5 length of stainless tube, readjust the jig. retest fit them. You see my point. And then your lucky if there is 25% margin in the part. So after you sell 50 sets you may have broken even on the part.
Last time I checked the idea was to make money, but also sell parts the WORK!!! there are so many parts I won't even sell regardless of price because they SUCK!
There Rant over lol

[Blake Foster]

Is it really just normal for these cars to all have the headers hanging down that low?

NO see page 1

[mikespeed95]

I've been eyeing up the Texas Speed ones myself. I called them last week to try to get an installed picture but suposedly the guy who did the test fitting (and had is pix on his personal computer) was in Qatar or someplace. They were going to email him and ask for the pix but haven't gotten back to me yet. I'm going to give them another call this week and maybe you should too. If two of us are bugging them maybe they'll get the pictures.

On another note, can you have a local machine shop reface the flanges and clean them up so they are flat?

I think I know who that is, I'll Facebook him a link to this thread.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Blake, price is ok with me as long as I dont have to fight it. Any ideas if a tru-turn system causes any problems??

judging by the pictures shown they should fit fine.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

You get what you pay for, the headman header for 169.00 what do they fit? even the Hooker comp 69 Camaro headers are a joke. it is like anything. if you want quality you have to pay for it. you could build your own stainless headers for about 2000.00 to 2500 depending on what material and how tight the chassis is 900 is a deal.
Not ripping on you but someone had to take the time to design the part and actually put it on a car to see if it fits, then do all the fixturing, all the test bends, throw away 5 length of stainless tube, readjust the jig. retest fit them. You see my point. And then your lucky if there is 25% margin in the part. So after you sell 50 sets you may have broken even on the part.
Last time I checked the idea was to make money, but also sell parts the WORK!!! there are so many parts I won't even sell regardless of price because they SUCK!
There Rant over lol

really? if I had to sell my headers at $900 a set I'd have to out source them to Taiwan and i'd still loose my ass on it. :knock:

By my calcs I'd have to front 105 sets to sell for $900 a set. Thats $94,000.00.

[67Rally]

One thing you guys have to realize is that not everyone can afford to build a $100,000+ car. Some of us have to cut costs when possible.

Obviously, if budget is not a concern or you're building a high end build, you buy the best of everything.

Some people are running $500 headers with no clearance issues, and it's a matter of figuring out what engine/frame mounts and adapter plates they used to fit.

Some of us are pulling LS motors out of junkyard cars and stuffing them in our classics, others are ordering $10,000+ crate motors and letting other people do the work for them. Just food for thought. Don't hate on the people that are budget conscious.

[rickpaw]

^^^ this.

Going back to my ground clearance issues with the Dynatech, I looked at some old photos of Ridetech's Velocity, which the Dynatech headers were designed around, and it showed the motor mounts flipped around (the metal tab is at the bottom-similar to Speedtech mount). I'll try flipping the motor mounts around this weekend and report back.

[Blake Foster]

One thing you guys have to realize is that not everyone can afford to build a $100,000+ car. Some of us have to cut costs when possible.

Obviously, if budget is not a concern or you're building a high end build, you buy the best of everything.

Some people are running $500 headers with no clearance issues, and it's a matter of figuring out what engine/frame mounts and adapter plates they used to fit.

Some of us are pulling LS motors out of junkyard cars and stuffing them in our classics, others are ordering $10,000+ crate motors and letting other people do the work for them. Just food for thought. Don't hate on the people that are budget conscious.

I don't think anyone is hating. obviously budget is the biggest issue to consider on these projects. but IMO you do have to pick where to spend your money, and if ground clearance is imports(the theme of this thread) then you probably have to spend some money. why spend 500.00 on a header that doesn't fit, then spend a 1000.00 to fix the problem when you could have spent the 1000. in the first place.

[toddoky]

One thing you guys have to realize is that not everyone can afford to build a $100,000+ car. Some of us have to cut costs when possible.

Obviously, if budget is not a concern or you're building a high end build, you buy the best of everything.

Some people are running $500 headers with no clearance issues, and it's a matter of figuring out what engine/frame mounts and adapter plates they used to fit.

Some of us are pulling LS motors out of junkyard cars and stuffing them in our classics, others are ordering $10,000+ crate motors and letting other people do the work for them. Just food for thought. Don't hate on the people that are budget conscious.

I subscribe to your way of thinking 67rally, the market has seen quite a few new parts for 1st-gen LS swaps come out over the last year that gives more choices than ever to each user, depending on what his goals/budget require. Many of these parts offer improved quality (through CAD/FEA design and lean manufacturing) and more affordable prices compared to parts of the past and present opportunities for installing parts that are designed to work as a system as opposed to a mixed bag of parts from various manufacturers. Times are good for 1st-gen swappers in the planning stages of their projects or getting ready to make parts purchases.

[67Rally]

I don't think anyone is hating. obviously budget is the biggest issue to consider on these projects. but IMO you do have to pick where to spend your money, and if ground clearance is imports(the theme of this thread) then you probably have to spend some money. why spend 500.00 on a header that doesn't fit, then spend a 1000.00 to fix the problem when you could have spent the 1000. in the first place.

That's a valid point Blake. I guess the point of the thread is really "is there a 500 header that fits right?" I already figured out that the $200 eBay headers don't fit. At least someone else can learn from that mistake...

FWIW, I went through the same thought process when I bought my control arms. I did Hotchkis springs front and rear, and looked at their UCA's and LCA's first. Then I saw the SpeedTech one's were about 20% less in price, seemed to be just as good quality and even included a steering stop on the LCA. I opted for the SpeedTech one's based on both quality and value. Every cruise/show I go to people ask about them. I saved a couple hundred bucks, and put it towards the next upgrade.

[67Rally]

I subscribe to your way of thinking 67rally, the market has seen quite a few new parts for 1st-gen LS swaps come out over the last year that gives more choices than ever to each user, depending on what his goals/budget require. Many of these parts offer improved quality (through CAD/FEA design and lean manufacturing) and more affordable prices compared to parts of the past and present opportunities for installing parts that are designed to work as a system as opposed to a mixed bag of parts from various manufacturers. Times are good for 1st-gen swappers in the planning stages of their projects or getting ready to make parts purchases.

toddoky, the new Hooker stuff looks great and if I were just starting the swap I'd probably go this route. I even advised a friend doing the swap to look into your complete kit, and he bought it.

But as I stated in my original post on page 1:
I liked the idea of the new Hooker headers, but I'm not willing to swap out my almost new Holley oil pan (1st version) or my engine mounts/trans x-member. The Hooker/Holley stuff looks great, but they came out with it a year too late for me, so I'm looking at other brands.

I can't justify throwing out a practically brand new Holley oil pan, BMR trans x-member, ES motor mounts, Dingo sliders, etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm willing to put the time and effort into finding a decent fitting header given my existing components.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[toddoky]

toddoky, the new Hooker stuff looks great and if I were just starting the swap I'd probably go this route. I even advised a friend doing the swap to look into your complete kit, and he bought it.

But as I stated in my original post on page 1:


I can't justify throwing out a practically brand new Holley oil pan, BMR trans x-member, ES motor mounts, Dingo sliders, etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm willing to put the time and effort into finding a decent fitting header given my existing components.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I completely understand where you're at 67rally, I was merely supporting your point that not everyone is looking for a $1,000 set of headers and that better fitting headers, engine mounts and crossmembers are now available for this swap than were available even just a year ago. If I was in your position I would be looking to find a work-around just as you are.

[sebtarta]

67Rally how high are you mounts now?

[chichirone]

Jay, can you please take some close up shots of the motor mounts, and perhaps measure the distance from the block (not oil pan) to the sub frame cross member?

No pics yet but the shop sent me some measurements for you. They measured from the block flange to the center of the trans mount bolt which is 22-3/16".

[67Rally]

67Rally how high are you mounts now?

It's somewhere between 4 1/8" to 4 1/4" from the subframe to the engine block.

I can't get a perfect measurement right now because I can't open my hood very far. The nose of my Camaro is parked under a wall mounted tire rack, and I don't have my new rear end fully installed, so I'm kind of stuck until I can get back to rolling the car out far enough to open the hood again.

But...The Dirty Dingo sliders are .500" thick, and the closest measurement I could get was between 3.625-3.75" for the combined height of the frame mounts & motor mounts.

I'm using the tall & narrow '69 Z28/350 frame mounts (3945507/8) and the tall & narrow Energy Suspension motor mounts (3.1117G).

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

One thing you guys have to realize is that not everyone can afford to build a $100,000+ car. Some of us have to cut costs when possible.

Obviously, if budget is not a concern or you're building a high end build, you buy the best of everything.

Some people are running $500 headers with no clearance issues, and it's a matter of figuring out what engine/frame mounts and adapter plates they used to fit.

Some of us are pulling LS motors out of junkyard cars and stuffing them in our classics, others are ordering $10,000+ crate motors and letting other people do the work for them. Just food for thought. Don't hate on the people that are budget conscious.

X1000

I don't think anyone is hating. obviously budget is the biggest issue to consider on these projects. but IMO you do have to pick where to spend your money, and if ground clearance is imports(the theme of this thread) then you probably have to spend some money. why spend 500.00 on a header that doesn't fit, then spend a 1000.00 to fix the problem when you could have spent the 1000. in the first place.

I didn't think you were hating or anything but in defense of my previous post:

I'm a manufacturing engineer so I've got a little bit experience in the manufacturability/costing of manufactured goods and I know where you are coming from. However; the discrepancy in price is just too much.

What's wrong is that the manufacturers of the "cheap" headers; who obviously have a pricing advantage due to labor and/or volume, don't seem to want to bother to spend a day test fitting and another week making a design and fixture change to make them fit better. If they did, we would only be seeing $1K headers in the magazine builds because no one else would need to buy them. Of course some people would buy the expensive ones for the same reason we buy expensive stuff now, for perceived quality or for a brand. In this case, I; and I'm sure many others, just want something that works.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Fretde

[67Rally]

FWIW, I'm into my current headers for $187.10 (brand new including shipping) plus another $4.95 for some copper RTV sealant. I already had the sledge hammer to beat the tubes into submission, and I installed them myself.

I was just looking to see if any of the mid-price stuff might work with the mounts/x-member I already have. I could always see if a machine shop can mill the flanges to seal better on the heads, and ground clearance is fine.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________

This thread isn't about whether $900-1200 is too much for a nice set of stainless steel headers. It's about whether or not there is a cheaper alternative that fits.

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

FWIW, I'm into my current headers for $187.10 (brand new including shipping) plus another $4.95 for some copper RTV sealant. I already had the sledge hammer to beat the tubes into submission, and I installed them myself.

I was just looking to see if any of the mid-price stuff might work with the mounts/x-member I already have. I could always see if a machine shop can mill the flanges to seal better on the heads, and ground clearance is fine.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________

This thread isn't about whether $900-1200 is too much for a nice set of stainless steel headers. It's about whether or not there is a cheaper alternative that fits.

Sorry about my part in the hijack. I'm still quite interested in this too and whatever you do decide to do, I'd like to see how it turns out.

[toddoky]

FWIW, I'm into my current headers for $187.10 (brand new including shipping) plus another $4.95 for some copper RTV sealant. I already had the sledge hammer to beat the tubes into submission, and I installed them myself.

I was just looking to see if any of the mid-price stuff might work with the mounts/x-member I already have. I could always see if a machine shop can mill the flanges to seal better on the heads, and ground clearance is fine.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________

This thread isn't about whether $900-1200 is too much for a nice set of stainless steel headers. It's about whether or not there is a cheaper alternative that fits.

Hey 67Rally, are you open to go with a set of mid-lengths or are you set on long tubes only? There are new mid-length headers out for this swap application from Hooker as well that may fit the bill for you. If you want any specific info on them or photos of their fitment, just send me a PM and I'd be glad to help you out.

[67Rally]

Sorry about my part in the hijack. I'm still quite interested in this too and whatever you do decide to do, I'd like to see how it turns out.

No worries, I think we're both looking for the same thing.

[67Rally]

Hey 67Rally, are you open to go with a set of mid-lengths or are you set on long tubes only? There are new mid-length headers out for this swap application from Hooker as well that may fit the bill for you. If you want any specific info on them or photos of their fitment, just send me a PM and I'd be glad to help you out.

I'm looking for long tubes. I made decent power with my current set, and I like the look.

I'm still tempted to borrow a set of your new headers from a friend and mock them up with my mounts/oil pan and see what they look like.

[toddoky]

I'm looking for long tubes. I made decent power with my current set, and I like the look.

I'm still tempted to borrow a set of your new headers from a friend and mock them up with my mounts/oil pan and see what they look like.

What is the fore/aft position of your engine with your current mounts? The location obtained with the new Hooker mount kit puts the machined front cover surface of an LS engine about 1/4" back from the front wall of the engine crossmember...as long as you are in that same basic position +/- 1/4" the headers will clear your steering box with no problems. I have other fitment photos to reference dimensions from, so just let me know if you need to see anything from my files.

[67Rally]

What is the fore/aft position of your engine with your current mounts? The location obtained with the new Hooker mount kit puts the machined front cover surface of an LS engine about 1/4" back from the front wall of the engine crossmember...as long as you are in that same basic position +/- 1/4" the headers will clear your steering box with no problems. I have other fitment photos to reference dimensions from, so just let me know if you need to see anything from my files.

I'm not locked into an engine position. I'm using Dirty Dingo sliders and an adjustable trans x-member so I can adjust the engine fore/aft 2-3".

[toddoky]

I'm not locked into an engine position. I'm using Dirty Dingo sliders and an adjustable trans x-member so I can adjust the engine fore/aft 2-3".

Very good. How far off the top of the engine crossmember is the bottom of your block then (the machined oil pan mounting surface)? The new Hooker mounts put that surface 1-5/8" off the top of the engine crossmember. Knowing that dimension of your combination I can better help you determine if your time would be well spent test fitting your friend's new Hooker headers on your car to see if they fit.

[67Rally]

Very good. How far off the top of the engine crossmember is the bottom of your block then (the machined oil pan mounting surface)? The new Hooker mounts put that surface 1-5/8" off the top of the engine crossmember. Knowing that dimension of your combination I can better help you determine if your time would be well spent test fitting your friend's new Hooker headers on your car to see if they fit.

I won't be able to get a measurement for a couple of days, but I'll post it here probably Sunday afternoon.

-------------------

A couple days late, but I measure 2 1/2" from the engine crossmember to bottom of the block where the oil pan mounts to.

[toddoky]

I won't be able to get a measurement for a couple of days, but I'll post it here probably Sunday afternoon.

-------------------

A couple days late, but I measure 2 1/2" from the engine crossmember to bottom of the block where the oil pan mounts to.

That's a disparity of 1-1/8" between where you are at with your set-up and the height at which the new Hooker brackets locate the engine. I would guess the new Hooker headers might have interference with the floor on your car since there is only about 1" of clearance between the header collectors and the floor when used with the Hooker mount kit.

[67Rally]

That's a disparity of 1-1/8" between where you are at with your set-up and the height at which the new Hooker brackets locate the engine. I would guess the new Hooker headers might have interference with the floor on your car since there is only about 1" of clearance between the header collectors and the floor when used with the Hooker mount kit.

My calculator says 7/8" of difference, but I agree that might be too close.

[toddoky]

My calculator says 7/8" of difference, but I agree that might be too close.

Yeah, I realized my math error after I sending my reply...reminder to self not to attempt math in my head before having my morning cup of coffee. With the actual difference being 7/8", the fitment of the new Hooker headers on your car will be damn close for sure, but may just be worth borrowing the set from your friend to try in out as it may solve your problem.

[67Rally]

Well, after a few weeks of researching, emailing, PM'ing, three different threads on three different sites...I had narrowed it down between the Dynatech's and the Doug's 3337's. I ruled out the Texas Speed because there just wasn't enough info on them, and I wasn't crazy about the design.

The guys from Dynatech were great with trying to help, but it's the same design as the Texas Speed stuff (still wondering if Texas Speed copied them, or if Dynatech is making their headers).

So I ordered a set of the Doug's 3337's (jwcarguy's pics helped push me to the final decision). My only hesitation was that they look identical to the ebay brand headers that I was looking to get rid of. In fact, when I first got them, I thought they were identical, but there are subtle differences in the tube design (i.e. the guys in China didn't do a perfect job on the knockoff). I installed them this weekend. I ended up moving my engine and transmission about 3/4" back towards the firewall and I'm very happy with the clearance.

ebay Header passenger side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/ebayheaders002x_zpsfbc31852.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/ebayheaders002x_zpsfbc31852.jpg.html)

Doug's 3337 passenger side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders014x_zpse64ad6b2.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders014x_zpse64ad6b2.jpg.html)

ebay Header driver side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/ebayheaders004x_zps51333cc9.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/ebayheaders004x_zps51333cc9.jpg.html)

Doug's 3337 driver side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders005x_zps58e7083a.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders005x_zps58e7083a.jpg.html)

Doug's clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders010x_zpsda6a2802.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders010x_zpsda6a2802.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders006x_zpsa452e967.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders006x_zpsa452e967.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders011x_zpscd8a0cea.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders011x_zpscd8a0cea.jpg.html)

Doug's driver side ground clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders017x_zpsf0b1cb99.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders017x_zpsf0b1cb99.jpg.html)

Doug's passenger side ground clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders020x_zpsd00310ef.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders020x_zpsd00310ef.jpg.html)

About 4" of clearance on passenger side, and 4.5" on driver side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders023x_zps615dbca3.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders023x_zps615dbca3.jpg.html)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

that looks pretty good, nice fitment.

What engine mounts again?

[67Rally]

that looks pretty good, nice fitment.

What engine mounts again?

LOL, I was just going back through the thread to see if I had posted it here.

I'm using the tall & narrow '69 Z28/350 frame mounts (3945507/8) and the tall & narrow Energy Suspension motor mounts (3.1117G). Along with the Dirty Dingo Sliders, and a BMR adjustable T56 trans crossmember.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Awesome stuff!

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Glad you found something that fit so nice for you!

Can you do me a favor and see if you can get an accurate measurement to a fixed point for me?

Maybe from the front left bolt on the steering box to a point on the engine; like a header bolt or something? I'd like to see where my engine is sitting in relation to yours.

Really, this is what all of us need from the manufacturers. Instead of telling us that this will fit with such and such mounts (which isn't always guaranteed) they should have measurements of where the engine should be sitting (for their headers) that we can use to compare. The best measurements would probably be off of the subframe or at least something bolted to it.

I'm still waiting on some parts to be powder coated before I put the subframe I re-manufactured back under my car but after that I should be needing to order headers really quick.

[toddoky]

Well, after a few weeks of researching, emailing, PM'ing, three different threads on three different sites...I had narrowed it down between the Dynatech's and the Doug's 3337's. I ruled out the Texas Speed because there just wasn't enough info on them, and I wasn't crazy about the design.

The guys from Dynatech were great with trying to help, but it's the same design as the Texas Speed stuff (still wondering if Texas Speed copied them, or if Dynatech is making their headers).

So I ordered a set of the Doug's 3337's (jwcarguy's pics helped push me to the final decision). My only hesitation was that they look identical to the ebay brand headers that I was looking to get rid of. In fact, when I first got them, I thought they were identical, but there are subtle differences in the tube design (i.e. the guys in China didn't do a perfect job on the knockoff). I installed them this weekend. I ended up moving my engine and transmission about 3/4" back towards the firewall and I'm very happy with the clearance.

ebay Header passenger side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/ebayheaders002x_zpsfbc31852.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/ebayheaders002x_zpsfbc31852.jpg.html)

Doug's 3337 passenger side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders014x_zpse64ad6b2.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders014x_zpse64ad6b2.jpg.html)

ebay Header driver side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/ebayheaders004x_zps51333cc9.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/ebayheaders004x_zps51333cc9.jpg.html)

Doug's 3337 driver side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders005x_zps58e7083a.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders005x_zps58e7083a.jpg.html)

Doug's clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders010x_zpsda6a2802.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders010x_zpsda6a2802.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders006x_zpsa452e967.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders006x_zpsa452e967.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders011x_zpscd8a0cea.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders011x_zpscd8a0cea.jpg.html)

Doug's driver side ground clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders017x_zpsf0b1cb99.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders017x_zpsf0b1cb99.jpg.html)

Doug's passenger side ground clearance:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders020x_zpsd00310ef.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders020x_zpsd00310ef.jpg.html)

About 4" of clearance on passenger side, and 4.5" on driver side:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/DougsHeaders023x_zps615dbca3.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/DougsHeaders023x_zps615dbca3.jpg.html)

That's great that something came together for you finally 67rally, seems to work real well for you.

obeerwan- that's a good point you made and in the case of an LS swap 1st-gen F-body/3rd-gen Nova like 67rally has the new Hooker engine mounting brackets for that application position the machined front surface of the engine block 1/2" back from the front wall of the primary engine crossmember. That equates to the typical distance between the back of the passenger side cylinder head and the firewall being 1-1/2". Maybe this info will help others starting this swap.

[67Rally]

Glad you found something that fit so nice for you!

Can you do me a favor and see if you can get an accurate measurement to a fixed point for me?

Maybe from the front left bolt on the steering box to a point on the engine; like a header bolt or something? I'd like to see where my engine is sitting in relation to yours.

Really, this is what all of us need from the manufacturers. Instead of telling us that this will fit with such and such mounts (which isn't always guaranteed) they should have measurements of where the engine should be sitting (for their headers) that we can use to compare. The best measurements would probably be off of the subframe or at least something bolted to it.

I'm still waiting on some parts to be powder coated before I put the subframe I re-manufactured back under my car but after that I should be needing to order headers really quick.

I'll try to find a good reference point tomorrow and post back with some measurements.

I installed the driver's side header by removing the engine frame mount bolt and jacking the engine up on that side. When I went to lower the engine after the first attempt, the #5 header was just about to hit the pitman arm before the engine was all the way down. I moved the engine back about an 1" and then #3 was within 1/32" of the PS box. I found a happy medium somewhere in between (I know I said about 3/4", but I didn't actually measure).

The key for me was having an adjustable set of adapter plates (Dingo sliders), along with an adjustable trans x-member.

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it.

Hopefully in a week or two I'll be putting my engine in my subframe again and seeing where the measurements are. I have to...ehem..."adjust" the frame a bit for the low mount alternator as well so it's probably important that I get a set of headers fairly quickly after the initial check so I can get that going.

Worst-case, I suppose I can just get headers and machine some new mount plates to make the placement work for the headers instead of trying to get headers to work for my mounting location. After all, the plates are just pieces of flat stock with 3 counter-sunk through holes and 3 tapped holes in them anyway. Not like they are difficult to make. I'd just rather I use "standard" modified components, if that makes sense....LOL

[67Rally]

Here's the best I can do. It's a little tight in places, and it seems there's always a hose or a wire loom in the way. Lot's of pics, hopefully this helps someone...

Distance from front of stock LQ9 timing chain cover to rear edge of front subframe crossmember (roughly 6 5/8"):
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition002x_zps74c9715c.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition002x_zps74c9715c.jpg.html)



Distance from flat bottom surface rear crossmember of front subframe (confused?) to the machined engine block surface where oil pan bolts up (roughly 6"):
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition018x_zpsc189f1ab.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition018x_zpsc189f1ab.jpg.html)

This is where I took the above measurement from:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition017x_zpsa75018a9.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition017x_zpsa75018a9.jpg.html)




Distance from firewall to rear edge of driver's side cylinder head (2 1/16"):
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition006x_zpsdaf3fd93.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition006x_zpsdaf3fd93.jpg.html)



Top view looking down, distance from firewall to rear edge of valley cover plate on passenger side (3 5/16"):
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition007x_zpsc340b2e6.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition007x_zpsc340b2e6.jpg.html)



Distance from front flat surface of Holley LS Retrofit Oil Pan 302-1 to rear edge of front subframe crossmember (6 3/4"):
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition010x_zpsdffdacc6.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition010x_zpsdffdacc6.jpg.html)

This is where I took the above measurement from:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee208/modi_photos/EnginePosition012x_zps4f19733a.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/modi_photos/media/EnginePosition012x_zps4f19733a.jpg.html)

[johnzSS]

^ Thanks for these detailed pics!

[SSE0417]

I think I have read so much that I'm getting confused with all the headers, I was thinking of going with Hooker headers on my 67 Camaro or maybe even speedtech, Does anybody have any thoughts of those two, Pros or cons of the two? There is about $150 or so differant in price. One is stainless and one is ceramic coated, I dont know what the best is there. I would think Ceramic would be cooler but not sure. Im ready to order some but still at a lose.

[toddoky]

I think I have read so much that I'm getting confused with all the headers, I was thinking of going with Hooker headers on my 67 Camaro or maybe even speedtech, Does anybody have any thoughts of those two, Pros or cons of the two? There is about $150 or so differant in price. One is stainless and one is ceramic coated, I dont know what the best is there. I would think Ceramic would be cooler but not sure. Im ready to order some but still at a lose.

Which Hooker headers are you referring to, the new ones or the ones that have been on the market for the past 5 years? If you are referring to the new Hooker 1st-gen parts released this past December, then you have the choice of mid-length or long-tube headers constructed in mild steel or 304ss. The new Hooker headers are also part of a complete swap system that includes engine mounts, transmission crossmembers, exhaust systems and an oil pan that were all designed at the same time to optimize the fitment in your car and the compatibility of all the components.

[SSE0417]

I assume the new hooker headers, I'm not sure( do they carry the same part number? I have the oil pan and motor mounts now. What would be preferred, 304ss or just mild steel ceramic coated? They both look good, what's the advantage of one over the other?

[toddoky]

I assume the new hooker headers, I'm not sure( do they carry the same part number? I have the oil pan and motor mounts now.

If you are using the 2288HKR/2289HKR headers, 302-1 Holley oil pan and flat-style LS swap plates then you have the older design Hooker/Holley parts and will be subjected to the same trade-offs as all the other LS swap parts on the market that were designed around the same time. All the new Hooker parts (engine mounts, transmission crossmembers, headers and exhaust systems)and the new Holley 302-2 oil pan were designed together at the same time go give you benefits you cannot get with the mixed parts from multiple manufacturers approach.

[TXsilverado]

Old thread, but any chance of getting a measurement of the distancr between collectors (center to center)

[TXsilverado]

And how are they holding up? Ill be removingmy arh headers that fit lake crap on tuesday and need a replacement that fits. The speedtech 2" is what i want but i cant swallow the price. The 2" is 500 more than a 1 3/4.

[Tim john---]

I can confirm that the new Holley/Hooker ,"Blackheart" mid length headers in stainless steel fit absolutely perfect in a 69 Firebird w/ 2004 GTO LS-1. I also have their reccomended engine mounts. Very impressed.

Tim john---

[TXsilverado]

Wish i could run the full holley setup, but i cannot do it with the gto accessories that are required for my blower setup