Dart LS Next ....aluminum version

[214Chevy]

What do you guys think? What have y'all heard?

http://www.dartheads.com/dart-news/look-whats-next-the-new-ls-next-aluminum-block-coming-soon/

[Ron in SoCal]

You know my opinion :D

[57hemicuda]

What is your opinion Ron, have you heard anything about these, I see ARE has a deep pan for the next gen block. I saw the iron version at the PRI show, looked like a stout piece. Kinda heavy though.

[Che70velle]

I've had my hands in a lot of engines, and I prefer the LS style main caps over the conventional Sbc style caps that this block has. I understand the windage issue, but I'll trade it for strength any day. That's my two cents...

[will69camaro]

I'm waiting to hear pricing on it. Friend just picked up the iron block for his 1500rwhp 4th gen trans am project. I'm liking the sound of 108lbs less than the iron verson for this. Should put it in the low 100s for a bare block...

We'll see what the cost is!

[Al Moreno]

I can't remember the exact amount but it was $5,000 plus is what I heard at PRI.

[GregWeld]

Dart doesn't make any junk....


And yeah --- $5K is typical for most aluminum blocks.

[57hemicuda]

Was hoping it wasn't going to be that high, the iron version is just over $2100. At 5k, unless you have some huge power adder making stupid horsepower, your better off with the $2700 LS7 block.

[Ron in SoCal]

What is your opinion Ron, have you heard anything about these, I see ARE has a deep pan for the next gen block. I saw the iron version at the PRI show, looked like a stout piece. Kinda heavy though.

My opinion is there are alot of advantages, and a few downside this block. I've been on it since it was announced some time ago at SEMA and waiting for the AL version. A free 30-40 HP, longer barrels for stock cubes (less piston rock = less rebuilds cycles) and raised cam version for the bigger stuff. Oiling is everything for us and this block seems to have that down. Dart has been very careful in R&D and release to the market, even pulling back a couple of times. For our market the HP and therefore stress we put on the block (less than 1000hp) this should be a no-brainer, and they even have their own metalurgy compound - which may be marketing babble - but it may also show they thought about it down to that level. The Iron version is made for the big HP drag boys. And if you want more, they'll even make a compacted graphite version (CGI) for max effort strength (2000 hp), but it'll weigh no less than the standard Iron block.

It takes the std LS2 front and rear covers and requires an oil pan adapter at a minimum. I do not know anyone that has personally built one, but Richard told me they make an adapter ring for most any SBC oil pan. ARE and Moroso built version specific pans if you want to go that route.

Finally, the AL block isn't even out yet, so no track record has been established. This is just my opinion but so far I like what I see. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to put my money down and will build a big incher soon.

Dart doesn't make any junk....

And yeah --- $5K is typical for most aluminum blocks.

Yessir Greg. There are few that have better block programs than Dart.

[Ron in SoCal]

Was hoping it wasn't going to be that high, the iron version is just over $2100. At 5k, unless you have some huge power adder making stupid horsepower, your better off with the $2700 LS7 block.

I agree on that point Ron. If you're going 427ci or less the GM block would do just fine.

[214Chevy]

I'm waiting to hear pricing on it......We'll see what the cost is!

Could be wrong, but I heard $2500-ish. :EmoteClueless:

[ironworks]

My opinion is there are alot of advantages, and a few downside this block. I've been on it since it was announced some time ago at SEMA and waiting for the AL version. A free 30-40 HP, longer barrels for stock cubes (less piston rock = less rebuilds cycles) and raised cam version for the bigger stuff. Oiling is everything for us and this block seems to have that down. Dart has been very careful in R&D and release to the market, even pulling back a couple of times. For our market the HP and therefore stress we put on the block (less than 1000hp) this should be a no-brainer, and they even have their own metalurgy compound - which may be marketing babble - but it may also show they thought about it down to that level. The Iron version is made for the big HP drag boys. And if you want more, they'll even make a compacted graphite version (CGI) for max effort strength (2000 hp), but it'll weigh no less than the standard Iron block.

It takes the std LS2 front and rear covers and requires an oil pan adapter at a minimum. I do not know anyone that has personally built one, but Richard told me they make an adapter ring for most any SBC oil pan. ARE and Moroso built version specific pans if you want to go that route.

Finally, the AL block isn't even out yet, so no track record has been established. This is just my opinion but so far I like what I see. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to put my money down and will build a big incher soon.



Yessir Greg. There are few that have better block programs than Dart.

The reality is there in not one big HP guy that will run that Iron block. Since the true BIG hp guys will be drag racing and front end weight will kill the cars ability to leave. And if its only rated to 2000hp, that's not even big power. My buddy is running a Proline race engine that is less the 500 cu in and according to the math on alcohol with twins is in the 3500hp range. But that is how the big HP guys are running 6.50's at 3400lbs on a 10" slick.

[214Chevy]

Just talked to a guy at Dart and got one of the part numbers for the 4.125 bore option and a price. A bit higher than I thought. $5200 and part number is #31937211. One thing to consider is a special oil pan has to be used from Milodon or Canton. A standard LS oil pan will only work with an adapter. A few other things also, but I forgot....LOL!! :headscratch: I think I'll stick with the RHS due to the price.

[Ron Sutton]

Later this year, I'm developing LS based engines for mean street & track duties.

The 410" track only engine will make 850+ hp. The 454" engine is going to come in several versions from 700 hp to over 900 hp. Everything in these engines will be top notch for long life & durability.

I could use any block I want ... and after in-depth evaluation ... I chose the Dart LS Next aluminum block.

On another note, IMHO Dick Maskin is one of the sharpest engine designers/builders in the game. He put everything he learned into this block and it shows.

[cantcatchmitch]

I've had my hands in a lot of engines, and I prefer the LS style main caps over the conventional Sbc style caps that this block has. I understand the windage issue, but I'll trade it for strength any day. That's my two cents...

From what ive heard from several of the bigshot ls engine builders (Kurt Urban for example), the splayed main caps of the ls next is much stronger than the ls six bolt skirted block design. The main reason the factory uses the six bolt design is that it keeps the engine quieter. Everything ive read about this block is all positives, except maybe the price.

[Che70velle]

From what ive heard from several of the bigshot ls engine builders (Kurt Urban for example), the splayed main caps of the ls next is much stronger than the ls six bolt skirted block design. The main reason the factory uses the six bolt design is that it keeps the engine quieter. Everything ive read about this block is all positives, except maybe the price.

The LS engines are "quiter" internally due to the architecture being a much more solid design. The reason the old school cap design is being pulled back out is due to bay to bay breathing being better, thus freeing up some power. It's not a weak design, I just prefer my caps not being able to walk around, without being pinned, or splayed. I agree with you wholeheartedly about the positives.

I've never seen better main bearing wear after 100k miles, than an LS engine.

[57hemicuda]

It seems we all have about the same take on the part. The priority oiling is a major plus.The block with the slayed mains in my opinion will be about the same in the strength department as the Y block, but the 6 bolt heads are a major plus for boosted cars. I really think they price themselves out of the market for the road race world, the engines all time out eventually. To loose a $5000 block would make a few of us want to commit harry carry.

I considered the iron block for my AMX, but weight is Horsepower, and 100 lbs is 100 lbs. In the end I will probably end up running GM stuff.

[214Chevy]

Later this year, I'm developing LS based engines for mean street & track duties.

The 410" track only engine will make 850+ hp. The 454" engine is going to come in several versions from 700 hp to over 900 hp. Everything in these engines will be top notch for long life & durability.

I could use any block I want ... and after in-depth evaluation ... I chose the Dart LS Next aluminum block.

On another note, IMHO Dick Maskin is one of the sharpest engine designers/builders in the game. He put everything he learned into this block and it shows.




Ron, the only reason I said I'd stick with the RHS is because with the LS Next aluminum not being released yet, I'd figure many guys would be familiar with building it or how to build it or being familiar with it. I'd love to talk to you about possible building me an engine. From your posts, you seem very knowledgeable and experienced. Can you pm me a contact cell # so I can discuss my engine goals with you. I strictly want a street car....no racing for me.

[Ron Sutton]

Ron, the only reason I said I'd stick with the RHS is because with the LS Next aluminum not being released yet, I'd figure many guys would be familiar with building it or how to build it or being familiar with it. I'd love to talk to you about possible building me an engine. From your posts, you seem very knowledgeable and experienced. Can you pm me a contact cell # so I can discuss my engine goals with you. I strictly want a street car....no racing for me.

Yup, yup! I'll pm you.

Guys ... just to be sure I didn't mis-state anything ... I think the RHS block is a good piece. For that matter, several of the factory GM LS blocks are good too, depending on how much power you're building, how hard it's being used and how much running it sees.

I think choosing engine blocks is a little like shopping for a welder. Sure a $1500 mig welder can weld 1/4" steel plate, but with a duty cycle of 30%, you would not want to put it on a production line trying to weld 1/4" plate all day. That $1500 welder can weld 1/4" plate often ... just not all the time. It's going to need a rest. If we're going to weld 1/4" plate all the time, we need a production line welder ($6,000) with a much higher duty cycle.

Blocks are similar. if you're going to drive them hard occassionally, you can get away with a lighter duty block. If you're gonna drive her hard all the time, you need a strong block foundation.

Scenario #1:
If we're Autocrossing a car 10-15 laps a weekend, 8-12 weekends a year & running 10 lap runs at a time, three times a day over five road course track days a year ... running an engine 10-20% over it's rated power capacity ... the block should last many years.

Scenario #2:
But if it were seeing serious road course action, 100 laps a day, 3-day events, 30 events a season, the life of that block ... would be shortened considerably.

For most guys scenario #1 is realistic & acceptable, so they don't need as strong a block. For more hardcore guys that want to run their car hard & often, if they don't have a strong block as a foundation, they'll have issues with the block and everything else too.

That's my experience anyway.

[Vegas69]

Ron, the only reason I said I'd stick with the RHS is because with the LS Next aluminum not being released yet, I'd figure many guys would be familiar with building it or how to build it or being familiar with it. I'd love to talk to you about possible building me an engine. From your posts, you seem very knowledgeable and experienced. Can you pm me a contact cell # so I can discuss my engine goals with you. I strictly want a street car....no racing for me.

Elite engine builders can build anything and make it live. The key is to make sure the engine builder is on a similar level to the block.

With your circumstances, this block is extremely overkill as Ron pointed out.

[214Chevy]

Elite engine builders can build anything and make it live. The key is to make sure the engine builder is on a similar level to the block.

With your circumstances, this block is extremely overkill as Ron pointed out.

But, if I was gonna buy an RHS, this block isn't that much more expensive. Will I be racing the crap out of it...nope. But, it's what I want and I know how I am and I won't be happy unless I get what I want. :lostmarbles: Crazy, I know, huh?

Could be wrong, but I heard $2500-ish. :EmoteClueless:

....and boy was I wrong. LO!! Not even close! :getout: By they way Todd, I'd love to wait a year from now and get one these LS Next aluminum blocks from some guy who's abandoning his project.

[Trackman]

:popcorn2:
Any of these engines out in the wild yet?