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bret
12-19-2013, 07:58 AM
A lot has been made recently concerning the safety of driving a 3600 lb street car at 150 mph on a race track.

I don’t think anyone can argue the validity or necessity of addressing safety. Like grandma, puppies, and apple pie…who could possibly say anything against safety?

Not me. Not me as RideTech…nor me as a hotrodder, and participant in many of these events.

There are a few items I’d like to discuss in addition to what’s already been covered.
• Humans will race. If there is more than one tricycle, horse, dog, turtle or centipede, humans will find a way to turn that into a competitive event that has a winner and [by definition] a loser. I know of no way to change ingrained human nature. Given that concept, we must figure out how to do it while minimizing the risk.

• Racing sanctioning bodies [NHRA, SCCA, SCTA, NASA, etc] were formed, and have evolved to create a SAFER environment in which to achieve these activities. NHRA specifically was formed in the attempt to bring racing and racers OFF the street onto a more controlled and safer racetrack. Risk will never be eliminated…but it's ALL of our responsibility to minimize it to the extent possible.

• The best track day road course events are held on a true racetrack…a track that has been designed and constructed with high speed in mind. They are devoid of as many life threatening obstacles as possible. No, you can never be completely risk free, but much experience and engineering has been devoted to making sure the participants are as safe as feasible.

• By the construction of these specially designed racetracks…and the recent proliferation of the track day events that have become popular, we [as an enthusiast group] have actually INCREASED our relative safety compared to the former “spirited driving on a twisty road” that we’ve all participated in previously. [here is where someone can lie about the fact they’ve never driven over the posted speed limit]. When you are on a TRUE racetrack you can take some level of comfort knowing these 3 things:

o The people on the track are all aware that they [and you] will be driving at an elevated speed
o There won’t be any unintended intrusions onto the track from civilians [children chasing balls, grandmas crossing the street, soccer mom’s in minivans talking on cellphone,etc.]
o You will all be going in the same direction

• While these track day events have been referred to as “real racing”, I think the difference between what we are doing and real racing is the fact that there is no fender-to-fender action going on. No one is trying to actively fight you for a position on the track. That is a huge distinction in my mind.

• The recent popularity of autocross and track day events has spawned a huge increase in products that dramatically improve vehicle handling dynamics and safety. Our cars are faster BECAUSE they handle better and have better safety equipment than they did 10 years ago. Exceptional brakes, steering, suspension and safety equipment have become quite fashionable for good reason. I see this evolution continuing within our “pro-touring” segment just as it has in the OEM cars…maybe even at an accelerated rate.

• Driving schools for most any segment have increased in popularity to educate anyone from a complete novice with a rental car to the most advanced professional driver. Who would have thought 10 years ago that we would see single day autocross schools in conjunction with track day events. Even if they existed [which I’m sure they did] our little musclecar niche didn’t participate in them.

Will these type activities ever be completely risk free? Hardly. Like motorcycle riding, water skiing, competitive eating, and sex…there will always be some level of risk. One must take personal responsibility to not only educate themselves about the dangers of their chosen activity, but to execute precautions to minimize them. The event promoters are quite motivated to ensure you have a safe vehicle and a safe event experience. They really want you to return next year with several of your friends. They have proven this motivation with rules and procedures that govern as many areas of the vehicle and the event as feasible…and continue to refine these rules and procedures. Nobody wants hurt people and cars littering their event .

As a businessman, I wish I could afford to support ALL the various track day events. Our financial reality dictates that I choose the ones that are the best organized and address the most participants. Educated participants are safer participants. Safer participants are happy participants. Happy participants may turn into customers. Then we can repeat the process to create more education, better and safer products…and let’s don’t forget…FUN!

Let’s talk about fun for a moment. On a strictly personal note…I cannot think of one single reason to attend one of these events unless it’s FUN. Considering the investment, there is no money to be made…and damned little glory to be had. So why go?
Because it’s FUN. I want to see if the idea I had last week about [insert change to your car here] was successful. I want to see my buddies and talk about girls, politics, and cars. I want to feel the G forces associated with driving a car to it’s [or at least to MY] limit. I want to eat grilled food and have a couple drinks with my friends.
I could fathom attending one of these events without my car. I could not fathom bringing my car and myself to an event without enjoying my friends.

The opinions expressed here are just that…opinions. I understand that they will be picked apart, agreed with, challenged, and be called flat out wrong. I feel the discussion [and the thought and preparation that may go into your car next year as a result] is worth whatever bruises my ego may suffer.

Thanks to Bill Howell for the inspiration to express my opinion, and to ASCS, Goodguys and USCA for the opportunity to be safe and have fun. Y’all have made my life.

Sieg
12-19-2013, 10:14 AM
Well said Bret. :happy23:

coolwelder62
12-19-2013, 10:15 AM
Very Well said,Bret.

71RS/SS396
12-19-2013, 10:41 AM
Bravo! I approve of Brets post :theresa: :theresa: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow:
To answer your question...... It's a freaking hell of a lot of fun especially when you kick your buddies butt!

Stuart Adams
12-19-2013, 12:10 PM
Very good.

intocarss
12-19-2013, 12:49 PM
I agree

People who don't know the game ask me why we race. I always reply that it has nothing to do with the racing, what we do is a people thing. The cars are just what we use to measure skills from one day to the next

Payton King
12-19-2013, 12:50 PM
You are not fast.

You know I am joking, but it sure did make me laugh as I was writing it. LOL

Hoping to drive with you soon, but you know how these projects seem to drag out. Maybe you will let me come out and wipe the sweat from your brow after a sesson on the track.

71RS/SS396
12-19-2013, 01:56 PM
You are not fast.

You know I am joking, but it sure did make me laugh as I was writing it. LOL

Hoping to drive with you soon, but you know how these projects seem to drag out. Maybe you will let me come out and wipe the sweat from your brow after a sesson on the track.

I never said I was fast, I said it was fun to kick your buddies butt. I got a good laugh from your post though. :slingshot:

TheJDMan
12-19-2013, 02:25 PM
While these track day events have been referred to as “real racing”, I think the difference between what we are doing and real racing is the fact that there is no fender-to-fender action going on. No one is trying to actively fight you for a position on the track. That is a huge distinction in my mind.

I absolutley agree! Turning laps at a track day is nothing like full on wheel to wheel on track competition.

65_LS1_T56
12-19-2013, 02:27 PM
You are not fast.

You know I am joking, but it sure did make me laugh as I was writing it. LOL

Hoping to drive with you soon, but you know how these projects seem to drag out. Maybe you will let me come out and wipe the sweat from your brow after a sesson on the track.

I'm not laughing, he's not. :action-smiley-027:


lol, just kidding of course Tim. It was fun watching you go off at Gingerman...well at least until the next corner, when Tom went off then you passed us...
Looking forward to next year to get some instruction from some pro's like yourself.

Bill Howell
12-19-2013, 02:31 PM
Great post Bret and you are certainly welcome for any part I could have possibly played in your post.

57hemicuda
12-19-2013, 02:39 PM
I said it was fun to kick your buddies butt.

I KNOW your not talking about me.

71RS/SS396
12-19-2013, 03:04 PM
I KNOW your not talking about me.

I knew you would be squeaking up soon once I saw Payton's post :D

71RS/SS396
12-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Great post Bret and you are certainly welcome for any part I could have possibly played in your post.
ASCS has a new and very focused AIM (company purpose,statement, goal, whatever the buzzword of the day is) starting in 2014.
Here it is:
"Deliver unique safe, enjoyable and profitable motorsport events that consistantly creates and enlarges the participant community."

This one sentence, more than anything we have ever done as a company has helped us figure out who we are, what our goals are and how to remained focused on those goals. IT serves as the litmus test now for anything we do. There is one word that was INTENTIONALLY not added to this statement. If you can figure out what that one word is, you will know why I 95% agree with your post. Also, anyone that figures out the obvious missing word will understand why all the talk about safety and fun, and will also know what to expect at our 2014 events without even asking!:cheers:

:y0!: I bet it's a 4 letter word.

Blake Foster
12-19-2013, 03:46 PM
I'm going to go with "RACE"
I agree with Bret 100% also the difference between a Motorsport event and it being a race is the multiple cars on the track battling for position. the fact that the time sheet still makes it a race should be evidence enough of the level of competition.
BUT I agree the SAFETY should be paramount, I think to date there have not been any catastrophic incidents at any of the events mentioned, and that is probably due in part to the level of competitors and the tech inspections to some degree, I think they could be tougher but that is me. it is hard to have ALL the safety stuff and still have a street car, especially the roll cage. but who want to be upside down with out one??? the safety part does add cost to the build but I have never understood the guy who will spend ALL the money on the motor and NONE of the money on a helmet???? the last thing I want is to end up lying in a hospital bed on Monday morning!!!

it's all in good fun

shiny side up

Smittys67
12-19-2013, 07:28 PM
Well said Bret!! It was even fun getting beat by a girl in Scottsdale.

Bryan O
12-19-2013, 08:00 PM
It was even fun getting beat by a girl in Scottsdale.

:lol: I hear ya.

The only autocross I've ever done was at GG Del Mar last year. All day long my 13yr old son was saying "Dad you're getting beat by a girl in a station wagon!" But, we had a great time.

GregWeld
12-19-2013, 09:19 PM
Well stated Bret!!



Funny when you said you could imagine going WITHOUT your car... I had to re-read that a couple times to see if it was a typo -- But you all know that I've been to many events without any of my cars.. and I have an absolute blast. Why? Cause my friends are there!

When I go to an event with a car - I only go to ones where my friends are. I've yet to just go to an event because it's an event.

BTW - The best safety equipment is to drive within YOUR limits regardless of where you are or what you're doing.

Sieg
12-19-2013, 10:24 PM
When I go to an event with a car - I only go to ones where my friends are. I've yet to just go to an event because it's an event.
Absolutely :thumbsup:

BTW - The best safety equipment is to drive within YOUR limits regardless of where you are or what you're doing.
Problem is, like the Lotus, people are gung-ho with adrenaline in the early sessions or fatigued in the later and they don't compensate accordingly. Or the classic, they get passed by someone/car the think isn't worthy of the position and drive over their head to get the position back. :D

One thing I like about motorcycle events is most riders don't like rag-dolling across the track and infield or getting hit by a cartwheeling bike. Good judgement can get blurred when you have a the security of cage and sheet metal around you.

71RS/SS396
12-20-2013, 05:25 AM
I'm not laughing, he's not. :action-smiley-027:


lol, just kidding of course Tim. It was fun watching you go off at Gingerman...well at least until the next corner, when Tom went off then you passed us...
Looking forward to next year to get some instruction from some pro's like yourself.

You don't want me teaching you anything cause it will just be bad habits Lol!

65_LS1_T56
12-20-2013, 09:13 AM
You don't want me teaching you anything cause it will just be bad habits Lol!

hehe, then you could teach what not to do? :bitchslap:

71RS/SS396
12-20-2013, 09:19 AM
hehe, then you could teach what not to do? :bitchslap:
I think you already have that handled :mock: :poke:

65_LS1_T56
12-20-2013, 02:32 PM
I think you already have that handled :mock: :poke:

Hey! I resemble that comment :warning:

:lmao:

Xplosiv
12-20-2013, 02:51 PM
I dont know how much scientific truth there is to this, but I heard a very interesting bit of thinking about how the brain functions relative to speed and movement. Psychologically, at 70mph on the highway we should feel the same level of danger and fear as we would standing atop the edge of a 5 story building. Its human nature, as was said, look at sports and humans in general. Everything we're doing now is bigger, better, and badder than anything done 50 years ago. The best example I can come up with is freestyle motocross. Less than 15 years ago the mere thought of backflipping a motorcycle would have gotten you committed, now we have the pros doing doubles and even triples in common place competition. As a species, we naturally strive to outdo others and ourselves.

James OLC
12-22-2013, 03:45 PM
Great post Bret!

I have to admit, I as read these forums over the past few weeks I am really disappointed at how rapidly it seems that negativity has spread in to some aspects of our community. Clearly a lot of things have changed since SEMA and I would guess that not everything is always as it appears but darn...

Rather than rehashing most of what Bret posted I'll simply say this - it is inevitable that a certain portion of our community will want to participate in timed (or untimed) "exhibitions of speed" in one form or another; that's why at least some own fast cars - they like to go fast. We have been fortunate that our desire to go fast has spawned the creation (or formalization) of (quasi) sanctioning bodies like GG, ASCS, and the USCA - these folks have given many of us an outlet in a (mostly) safe environment and with more and more of these events heading to legitimate (and actually safe) venues it can only get better.

But I think that we have to agree that one "sanctioning body" doesn't have to do it all.

One day I hope that there is an option for everyone out there - from the guy who wants to cruise around, driving from dinner to dinner, party to party - to the guy who wants to hone there skills on lower speed autocross courses surrounded by their friends - to the folks want to wind it out on the track.

Wait... that day is already here...

Hot Rod Power Tour, Tire Rack One Lap of America, Goodguys Street Challenge Autocross, American Street Car Series, Goodguys Road Tour, Silver State Classic Challenge, OPTIMA Ultimate Street Car Invitational, Sandhills Open Road Challenge, Evolution Super Shootout, Ultimate Street Car Association, Mojave Mile, Targa Newfoundland, Nevada Open Road Challenge...

Pick your poison, do what you love, and do it safely.

ccracin
12-22-2013, 03:55 PM
Wait... that day is already here...

Hot Rod Power Tour, Tire Rack One Lap of America, Goodguys Street Challenge Autocross, American Street Car Series, Goodguys Road Tour, Silver State Classic Challenge, OPTIMA Ultimate Street Car Invitational, Sandhills Open Road Challenge, Evolution Super Shootout, Ultimate Street Car Association, Mojave Mile, Targa Newfoundland, Nevada Open Road Challenge...

Pick your poison, do what you love, and do it safely.

Excellent add James!

Stuart Adams
12-22-2013, 04:47 PM
The competition and speeds have really taken off since the early days of DSE and Ridetech taking potential customers around the auto X track at very few available GG events.

daign
12-25-2013, 01:06 PM
100% agree! Seat time at the track is the best mod per dollar for any car/driver!

Knowing how and when your car will spin and how to react is a wonderful thing without solid objects to hit!