VICTORY! Resolving long standing NVH issues that have been making me "nuckin futz" !

[Hydratech®]

I have been plagued with noise / vibration / harshness / resonance over the years that I swore I would tune out or sell the car out of defeat. Yes - I'm the guy that will cut perfectly good brand new mufflers back out of a vehicle and throw them in the scrap heap in an effort to find the "right" sound (maybe I'll actually get there someday??). Two issues I have been battling with have been a very high sensitivity to tire balance and also driveshaft harmonics (everybody has their own particular demons...) :P I get into a late model car, then back into the ol' '86 G body and sit there at various speeds cussing the unwanted gyrations - the longer and farther I drive it, the more it pisses me off. Whaddaya expect out of an old car, right? It IS the 21st century, and I expect a smooth damn ride thank you very much LOL. :D

While not directly automotive, being an open thinker (?), I tried SSD hard drives in our computers an OH SNAP !!! While they are Waaaayyyyy more expensive, but Zoiks!!! these things actually really do kick it up a helluva notch despite conventional wisdoms... If you are on the fence, just do it!

Ok, so let's try a few other things that *might* work despite what my knee jerk response is (hate snake oil type stuff overall) (but there ARE people out there that don't believe in hydroboost either, and guess what...) - sorry - had to get that in there.

I have been on the fence for YEARS regarding aluminum driveshafts, as I have blown up and wrecked just about everything a hot rodder can :lolhit: Driveshaft failures REALLY SUCK as some of you that have experienced it can clearly attest to. I have rebalanced my stock steel 2.75 driveshaft (exact same as OE in the Buick Grand Nationals, but they only had a 3.42 gear versus my 442's 3.73 gear)(which changes driveshaft RPM's at speeds), upgraded to an aftermarket wizzbang 3" diameter steel shaft that was spec'd to within a postage stamp of perfection, and still found resonant frequencies at various speeds. I kept reading and reading about the issues on the good ol' net, finding that steel can in some cases amplify certain frequencies, while aluminum would actually dampen the same frequencies - hmmmm. Certain GM service bulletins spec'd swapping out the OE steel shafts for aluminum replacements under TSB guidelines - ok, you have my attention. I took the plunge for a 3.5" shaft package rated for 700+ horse, installed it and OMG - one big demon now exorcised out of my life! I have to say that I am in complete disbelief that it is like night and damn day - super thrilled! I know there are people out there that could argue steel versus aluminum for a driveshaft to the point of stupidity, but I will tell you that I am THRILLED. Higher numeric rear end gear ratios are even more of an issue than my 'lil 3.73 (especially with today's 6 speeds). Summary? I just cannot believe what an immense difference the installation of an aluminum driveshaft in place of previous steel shafts made in my particular world. Name your favorite brand of driveshaft supplier, though I do believe it is more the metalurgy that I am speaking of here. If you are on the fence, just do it!

Next ? Wheel balance... Oh my sensitivity seems to grow with every passing mile in my life! One HARSH beat session with my ride and the balance gets tossed out the window again - sheesh. Big smoky burnouts and harsh maneuvers shave rubber off unequally - I get it... But WTF !!! My next solution has been to try the tech that semi's have been using for years - beads inside of the tires!? I STILL can't quite wrap my mind around just how this exactly works, but man does it work! I put 4 ounces of the ceramic beads in each tire with no other changes (didn't remove the existing weights either) and WOW - highly impressed - smooth at all speeds at all times (unreal). Balancing that resets itself everytime you come to a stop and start rolling again? (Sounds like damn kitty litter in the tires when spun by hand up on the hoist) And can also compensate for minor imbalance in attached rotating mass such as rotors and brake drums? No way, right? I'm tellin' ya from my own experience, it IS true... If you are on the fence, just do it!

Some of you may not be advocates of the technologies mentioned above, but I am giving you my 2 cents in the one off chance that it may help someone here. Or course your mileage may vary, but it did the trick for me... :confused59:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Snake oil and magic beads in the same thread. That's some good info Paul.

[Shmoov69]

I've been told by old timers for along time to take the 0 buckshot and put a couple dozen of the bb's in the tire and go on your merry way.
Never tried it tho, I could always get it balanced out "good enough" for me!

[SSLance]

I fought very similar NVH demons with my G-body...for over a year as well.

I finally bit the bullet and went to Inland Truck Parts to have them build me a brand new drive shaft after trying everything else.

They wouldn't build me a shaft smaller than 3.5" in diameter in the length I needed, so I had them build me a HD steel 3.5" dia. drive shaft and it was a night and day difference immediately over any of the 3 other drive shafts I'd had in the car before. I was pissed that I'd waited that long to upgrade (the 2.5" I had shortened for the 9" was supposed to be balanced perfectly).

Apparently a drive shaft that long turns into wet noodle at highway speeds if not the proper size...chalk me up as a believer as well.

Now, about those tire beads you say...

[parsonsj]

Tire beads: similar technology is also used in washing machines to balance the drum during spin cycles.

I'm taking my race wheels and tires in for balancing again today, for about the 5th time. Sigh. Anybody know if tire beads are rated to 170mph?

[GregWeld]

Tire beads: similar technology is also used in washing machines to balance the drum during spin cycles.

I'm taking my race wheels and tires in for balancing again today, for about the 5th time. Sigh. Anybody know if tire beads are rated to 170mph?



I had them installed on the steer tires of my semi. But I don't think I'll see any speed within 100mph of yours! Lol

[Hydratech®]

I used this group: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.php

Here is how it works: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/HowItWorks.htm

The ceramic bead size varies from about .015 to .045.

Certified to 150 MPH here :drive:

NOTE: You cannot have ANYTHING sticky inside of the tires, or the beads will stick into position and cause imbalance. This actually drove me nuts with a brand new set of BFG's, as they were so fresh that they were a bit sticky inside. It took a few miles of use along with some pounding to finally get them to act right. I was actually a little pissed intitially, and was just getting ready to have the tires taken back off so I could clean the beads out. I ran on a hunch that this could clear up, and it did (within about 50 miles). Any excessive bead sealer, water, or anything sticky will prevent the beads from functioning correctly. The other vehicles I have used this on have had seasoned tires and the results were immediate, so brand new super sticky tires may actually benefit from a small "wiff" of baby powder if they are gummy inside to keep the beads from sticking initially.

I have since "spiked" all of our vehicles with these beads, and my wife even noticed the difference in the minivan, even though we felt it was smooth and proper prior (nice mid life Michelins).

I recommend 4 ounces per tire DBS-4 (will need one per tire), the COR-01 filtered valve cores, and the APP-02 applicator bottle: http://www.innovativebalancing.com/gallery1.htm

Again, your results may vary, but I'm very sold on the tech!

[parsonsj]

I gotta say, this seems like an ideal solution for race/HPDE tires. Rubber moves around in chunks, you end up with melted rubber nougies on the inside of the wheel, the wheel balance weight adhesive fails due to high caliper and tire heat, etc...

I think I need to give this a try.

[preston]

Thank you thank you for discussing NVH issues. Ever since I put my first project car on the road I have been disappointed by NVH. I see all those smiling people in the Hot Rod magazines with their fancy souped up musclecars enjoying life and I'm driving down the road saying "WTF ?"

I have fought NVH in my project cars for years and never been truly happy. I really appreciate your post. I've been running alum D/S for years but had never heard of the tire beads I will try that one ! In fact that sounds so cool I'm going to try it in my drivers too. Can never have my '92 Cadillac too smooth !
Maybe that's why my project cars feel so rough, cuz my daily is like driving melted butter on a feather pillow.

Now if someone could come out with a rod end/jonny joint/spohn threaded deal that used some kind of rubber instead of poly bushing. Howe does make one but its 2.5" in diameter. And I don't think you could make a 3D articulating deal with rubber either.

Also - very happy Hydratech customer here !

[TheJDMan]

I have been running the ceramic Dyna Beads in my truck and trailer tires for years. The Dyna Beads from Inovative are used routinely in Baja off road racing. I don't know if they see 170 but as mentioned they are certified to 150.

This is a great video demo of how they work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg

[GregWeld]

The system I'm using on my class 8 truck is made by a company called centramatic. It's a similar solution except it's external of the tire.

[glassman]

This is the first i've ever heard of beads inside. Makes sense though, centrifugal force is centrifugal force. I can imagine those beads lining up like a soldier in the military under force....