Suspension plan- opinions needed

[conester2013]

Ok, so I'm usually over on Team Camaro since they are more "hot rod" set ups vs. here where you guys are more hard core autocross setups, but I wanted to get your opinion on my 1969 camaro suspension plans because you guys seem to be more of experts on the different suspension options out there. This car will see mostly spirited cruising and not any autocross. Anyway, I was planning on going with QA1 upper and lower tubular arms and QA1 single adjustable coil overs, and hotchkis sway bar up front. In the back I was planning on hotchkis 1.5" drop leaf springs, hotchkis sport suspension leaf spring bushings, QA1 single adjustable shocks and Hotchkis sub frame connectors.

The more I was researching (did A LOT of research!), the more I think I'm going to go with Speed Tech's chicane coil over conversion so I can use true coil overs…still will most likely go with QA1's single adjustables with that due to budget.

So what do you guys think? I know it's not the best setup compared to a lot of what you guys are using and I did look at Ridetechs complete coil over system, but I just don't think I need something that good. My goal for this car is to make it sit at a nice lowered ride height 2" down and tighten her up nicely so I can push it a little while driving around the block. Oh yeah, right now I'm running a 350 SBC with iron heads, no air, aluminum intake, and power steering. It's also got a Muncie M21 tranny.

Thanks for any input!!!

Brian

[Ron Sutton]

What are your handling goals? Ride quality, rough rough compliance, low speed cornering performance, etc?

[conester2013]

My handling goals are I'd like the car to be able to take typical corners on the street and the ol' on/off ramp nice and fast and not have too much roll..stay nice and tight. If I go over a dip in the road, I want it to hug the road and not be all floaty. I'm not really looking for a cushy ride since this is a sports car and it's not my daily driver. If it handles great, I can tolerate some bumps and rattles. I'd like the low speed and high speed cornering to feel tight. I guess I'm just looking for a nice tight ride that handles great and that I can push a little and have fun with. Hope that makes sense to you pro's!

[Ron Sutton]

Hi Brian,

What your describing will be more a function of spring rate, sway bar rate & shock valving, so make those your priority.

Most of the rear suspension designs available ... 3-link, 4-link, triangulated 4-bar, torque arm, leaf spring, etc ... can achieve this ... with the correct spring rate, sway bar rate & shock valving.

I suggest going with the largest oem shape 1-piece sway bars available for your application (front & rear) combined with moderate spring rates and high quality adjustable shocks. this will produce a responsive handling car without riding like a 1-ton truck.

Someone with more street ride quality experience than me should suggest rates, but I'm thinking in the 500-550# range in the front and the rear rate ... 175-225# will depend a lot on where the springs end up mounted from the car's centerline (motion ratio).

I would suggest you go away from the leaf spring set-up if you can afford to. If you're not competing with it, you probably don't need it to be adjustable, so a torque arm or triangulated 4-bar set-up may fit your needs and keep the suspension simple.

Best wishes !

[Rod P]

Someone with more street ride quality experience than me should suggest rates, but I'm thinking in the 500-550# range in the front and the rear rate ... 175-225# will depend a lot on where the springs end up mounted from the car's centerline (motion ratio).


yep you have it Ron, great for street with big ole-sway bar up front, and the best single adjust shock you can afford, don't cheap out on the shocks, I have seen a lot of good setups JACKED UP with bad shocks and tires

[conester2013]

yep you have it Ron, great for street with big ole-sway bar up front, and the best single adjust shock you can afford, don't cheap out on the shocks, I have seen a lot of good setups JACKED UP with bad shocks and tires

Ok Ron/Rod, I was looking at the set up below…does this look like it would be a good setup for me given my goals for my cars handling?

http://www.ridetech.com/store/1967-1969-chevy-camaro-coilover-system-level-2.html

If I didn't do that, to save some money, maybe I could go with the chicane system here:
http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=12/category_id=23/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd12.htm

Some QA1 upper and lower arms:http://www.qa1.net/qa1_motorsports/drag-and-street/suspension-components/control-arms/gm-control-arms.html

Some single adjustable ride tech coil overs on the front and back and the 4 link from ride tech in the back: http://www.ridetech.com/store/1967-1969-chevy-camaro-firebird-airbar.html

Oh yeah….and of course a giant sway bar up front/back.

How does that sound?

Thanks again for the help!!

Brian

[chichirone]

Brian, you will be very happy with the Ridetech setup. Add the Musclebar if budget allows. Its a nice piece and was a major improvement to the way my car drives. It will give you the street handling and ride you are looking for and plenty of adjustability with the SA's. Plus, you leave yourself options for future upgrades or changes if you want to make the suspension more aggressive. I've been very pleased with the Level 2 setup on my car, plus Musclebar and TruTurn. I've played with camber and toe adjustments. The shock settings for track and street. Different spring rates which Kyle from Ridetech has been a huge help. I haven't played with the triple adjustables yet on our 73 TA but get a notepad out when you start adjusting the shocks and document how the car feels after you make changes until you find your preference for street and spirited driving or even a track day/autocross setting if you get into that. Best of luck with your suspension project.

[Rod P]

don't want to sound like a sales man for ridetech, but I agree with the previous poster, I switched my car from a leafspring setup, to a complete ridetech set up and it runs among the top elite at every event and I haven't even fully tuned the car yet, that setup with fat tires in all four corners is awesome

[Ron Sutton]

It's not my place to recommend brands, but all of the ones you're looking at are quality pieces from quality companies. You'll need to decide what you want & who you favor working with. Calling them& seeing how they interact with their customers may go a long way in your decision.

I get a kick out when you guys call these huge sway bars, because we're realistically talking in the 400-500# range and I'm used to running 1500#+ on road course stuff. So to me a 1-1/4 to 1-3/8" front bar, along with the correct rear bar makes for a nice responsive, moderate roll angle street package.

Rod, what do you think he needs as far as spring rate?

[conester2013]

Well I pulled the trigger guys!!! All the good things said here about Ridetech and the fact that I saw Matt's Classic Bowties was having a cyber Monday and forum sale so I jumped on that! I bought the Level 2 Ridetech coil over suspension system with the front muscle bar!! Talking with Kim at MCB, based on my engine and how low I wanted it to sit, she said I'd be looking at 550# springs.

I'm pumped!!! Funny how it works…initially I was going to go with the QA1's and keep leaf springs in the back, and now I am getting rid of the leafs and upgrading the coil overs and putting them in all four corners!! :excited:

Thanks again for all your help guys!! It's all your fault that I went with this system!!! :cheers:

Brian

[RdHuggr68]

Well I pulled the trigger guys!!! All the good things said here about Ridetech and the fact that I saw Matt's Classic Bowties was having a cyber Monday and forum sale so I jumped on that! I bought the Level 2 Ridetech coil over suspension system with the front muscle bar!! Talking with Kim at MCB, based on my engine and how low I wanted it to sit, she said I'd be looking at 550# springs.

I'm pumped!!! Funny how it works…initially I was going to go with the QA1's and keep leaf springs in the back, and now I am getting rid of the leafs and upgrading the coil overs and putting them in all four corners!! :excited:

Thanks again for all your help guys!! It's all your fault that I went with this system!!! :cheers:

Brian

Brian, it is an awesome sickness :G-Dub:

[chichirone]

Brian, congrats on your new suspension. :G-Dub:

Jay

[conester2013]

Suspension was delivered last Friday! :ups: It was like an early Christmas!! I know you guys already know this, but MAN is that stuff well built!! I can't wait to drive this car in the spring! I was AMAZED at how big the monster bar was compared to the original sway bar that was on the car! NO WAY is this thing gonna roll at all with that bar on there! haha!!

UNREAL!!
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/conester1/1969%20Camaro/DSC_0990_zps712b4ed5.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/conester1/media/1969%20Camaro/DSC_0990_zps712b4ed5.jpg.html)

[Rod P]

I know you want it low but a softer spring will just require more preload to hold up the same weight and the ride will suffer I would have recommended 650lbs front and 175lbs rear for a daily street driver with a good ride.....personal opinion from builds I have worked on, the 550 for a 350 SBC with iron heads is to soft

I bought the Level 2 Ridetech coil over suspension system with the front muscle bar!! Talking with Kim at MCB, based on my engine and how low I wanted it to sit, she said I'd be looking at 550# springs.



My car runs 750 fronts and 225 on the rear for the track and still rides low

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx162/crazyshopmonkey/2013%20events/1461843_449991731773055_858153679_n_zpsc5667177.jp g

the Muscle bar is a very good bar,I switched to the same one after testing it against 1-5/8 bar I had before
I was AMAZED at how big the monster bar was compared to the original sway bar that was on the car! NO WAY is this thing gonna roll at all with that bar on there! haha!!

UNREAL!!
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd107/conester1/1969%20Camaro/DSC_0990_zps712b4ed5.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/conester1/media/1969%20Camaro/DSC_0990_zps712b4ed5.jpg.html)

[conester2013]

Hey Rod! I checked the spring part numbers that they sent me and I have 650# fronts and 225# back spring rates. So looks like my fronts are right on what you recommend but my backs are a little higher.

Brian

[Rod P]

Hey Rod! I checked the spring part numbers that they sent me and I have 650# fronts and 225# back spring rates. So looks like my fronts are right on what you recommend but my backs are a little higher.

Brian

the 225 should be fine(same as mine), if your nervous about the ride height you could swap the spring to a 200, but either way the preload will be so close between the 200 and 225 you will be able to get a very nice ride height and the 225 will give a little better traction bite(yes just that 25lbs makes a difference in traction) if the rear is set up per the instruction sheet for upper rod length and lower arm location

glad someone packing up the kit switch the fronts to a better poundage:knokwood:

its a great setup you will be SUPER happy!

[conester2013]

Rod....just wanted to post a follow up to this discussion. It's been about a year now and after driving my car all summer......and whenever I can still if the roads are dry....I absolutely LOVE the Ridetech system!! I have driven the car MUCH harder this year due to the fact that everything is SO tight and predictable! I do a power slide out of my neighborhood every time I leave and I KNOW exactly what the car is going to do because it is so flat and controllable! I search out curvy roads now so I can have fun blasting around the corners WAY above the "suggested" speed on the signs! haha!! Bottom line is it drives WAY better than I could have imagined it would and it was well worth the money!
After I installed my suspension and a buddy drove it, who was working on doing a high end restore on a 69 camaro for a guy, he went back and told the guy he needed to switch to my set up! That's pretty cool!
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to Rod and everyone else that helped me a year ago decide what route I wanted to go with this! Thanks!
Now I think I actually have my wife convinced to let me try at least one autocross next year! :thumbsup:

Thanks again guys!!!

Brian

[Roberts68]

^^^^ Coming to a vendor testimonial page near you...
:thumbsup:
Searching for the "Like" button over here! Great post, congrats on getting your moneys worth and enjoying the car you deserve! Nicely done Rod & Ridetech.

[Ron Sutton]

Sweet! You'll enjoy it.

[David Pozzi]

Did you do anything to the steering system?
The Ride Tech Tru-Turn and a stiff feel fast ratio steering box would be icing on the cake for your car.

[MCB Matt]

I was just going to say after Rod posted the 650#.... Lol....

A lot of numbers get mixed up when guys shop coils. Especially coil overs.

We typically don't go any softer than 650's on anything Ridetech front for street use.... You guys have the formula just right, why reinvent the wheel!?

Glad you love the kit, I love the swaybar side by side pic, haha! The level 2 is the perfect system for your use and you never have to buy shocks again :trophy-1302:

Thank you very much for the business, enjoy your new system, it will be a whole new car!

Happy holidays
Matt