The biggest game changer at SEMA...

[preston]

In my opinion was the Ring Bros widebody carbon mustang body.

With so many of these high end builds routinely topping 1/4 million dollars, I don't see it out of the realm of possiblity. I gotta imagine that body is well under $50k. The big hitters will pay $50k for a top end NRE engine or equivalent, and they are already paying at least $20k in many cases just to get to useable sheet metal, I could see this starting a new trend. It brings your build to the same level as a modern CF bodied exotic and probably saves 400 lbs as well. Hell, I would prioritize this over just about any other aspect.

anway just my thought on it, I think this is a Joe Biden Big F'in deal, and my prediction is we will see more CF muscle car bodies being produced within the next few years.

Did anyone hear a ballpark price ? $50k was just my random though, but RB already sells the CF doors for $2k apiece, so maybe its not that much.

either way its well out of my budget just in case I was giving the impression that it was !

[hifi875]

I say it will be more$$.

[tmadden]

I say it will be more$$.


Agreed

[Rick D]

I wonder if guy will sell them?? They may just build them for their own builds?? Unless they have said they will be available for sale without them doing the build.

Very cool body for sure, I wonder if the 69 Camaro is next?? :gitrdun:

I agree also that I think it will be north of 50k.

[WSSix]

As kick ass as a CF body is, I don't see it catching on. Too much money and no way to repair it easily should it be damaged. While we are building race inspired cars, we're not racing them in an arena where a CF body would be advantageous. I just don't see it catching on. Maybe I'm wrong though. I applaud them and anyone else who brings it to market though. It's fantastic what these old cars are inspiring in people still today and the distances companies are willing to go.

[Revved]

I agree that it was a huge deal to see at the show... of all the things I expected to see from RB I never would have guessed a CF Mustang body.... but I guess with it being "the thing to do" in the exotic world it was only a matter of time.

You know how this world goes...the first one costs $$$$$$$$ the second one $$$$$$$ but if you build 20 it drops to $$$$. If there were enough demand I could see them doing it but I wouldn't expect to see them under $50k simply for cool factor. I don't see it being a game changer... just something really cool that will pop up on random high $$$$$$$ builds here and there

Then comes the real world aspect... I've never dealt with CF but had a conversation with a guy who claimed to be, stating that it would be dangerous for street use in case of an accident.. His argument was that if a car like this would be hit when the body shattered it would throw off particulate that would be the equivalent of breathing in razor blades. I know broken fiberglass is no fun to be around... but for you guys that know CF how does it behave?


Anyway you go.. the CF shell is bad ass. Great job RB for keeping us on our toes!

[okyankee]

I believe I read that is not a carbon body but carbon panels stuck on to the original body. I will look for the article I read.

[okyankee]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/07/ring-brothers-1965-ford-mustang-carbon-fiber-body-sema-2013/

[preston]

I saw on some SEMA post somewhere or maybe even on the sign at the show that they were going to made available for purchase.

My dollar figure is sort of based on this - you can buy a complete FG muscle car body for as little as $6k (see here: http://www.vfnfiberglass.com/2005mustang.htm). Some of these are "race quality" probably but let's say its $12k. Normally when you buy FG and they have an option for CF, its 25%-100% more, such as RB doors are $1500 in FG and $2k in CF. That's why I don't think it will cost as much as you guys think. But I could be very seriously wrong too.

As far as not catching on because we are not racing these cars - IMO when a guy is spending $200k+ on a build, its one, a huge ego stroking exercise, and two, he's trying to build the "coolest car ever" I mean that's why we do it. Whether it really matters if its 400 lbs less or not and he doesn't race has little to do with it. I mean they don't need a $8k billet NRE intake either. Once the first couple show up then after that every serious build has to compete with it.

I mean, I've been building cars for 15 years and I want one BAD ha ha.

Anyway just some fun opinions and predictions to throw around.

[Revved]

I believe I read that is not a carbon body but carbon panels stuck on to the original body. I will look for the article I read.


I dunno... I saw it in person and it sure as hell looked like full CF to me...
plus the sign they had on top that said "RING BROTHERS Full Carbon fiber 1965-1966 Widebody Fastback." Sorry don't have pics uploaded to photobucket yet to post but they are all over my FB and Instagram.

[Ron in SoCal]

I dunno... I saw it in person and it sure as hell looked like full CF to me...
plus the sign they had on top that said "RING BROTHERS Full Carbon fiber 1965-1966 Widebody Fastback." Sorry don't have pics uploaded to photobucket yet to post but they are all over my FB and Instagram.

I spent 15 mintues gawking at it, inside and out. Touched more than a few panels. There may be some metal there, but everywhere I inspected it was full carbon. :headspin:

Hats off to RB :cheers:

[DBasher]

^^^^^well that explains it^^^^

Love seeing the latest and greatest and the CF mustang was definatly a huge hit at SEMA. Depending on price I'm sure they'll be a hit, look how many Eleanor clones are out there. I don't know anything about anything but I would assume CF parts can be bought separately, say like the roof panel?

Do these builds really only cost 200k-250k?

:cheers:
Dan

[tazzz2_ca]

This is a subject I have been researching for years now... Many know I produce parts already and threaten the full carbon car for a couple of years...

Here is the facts:
1- MB has done a car for client that insisted a full carbon car. In order to get the sign offs and not use other composites, the car came in at just under 300-ish pounds lighter that stock....

2- In a street application a combination of Carbon and other composite combined with limited steel can and will produce a substantially lighter platform that is safe and definitely 100% a major game changer in my mind..

3- A shell/roller of this caliber will likely retail in the neighborhood of 60,000 dollars.... This will allow for moderate dependable power to equally or realistically out perform many of the current high strung builds...

4- The driver in our game tends to out weigh 75% of any gains so to speak... Guys the bulk of us really aren't that good as drivers (me included)... The good news is that is changing year by year with driving time and lessons...

So in conclusion, a straight carbon constructed car is not the answer in my opinion (and everyone is entitled to one of them).... I will say that there is a pending deal/s on two of my current cars and should they come together,,, I'm trowing the first gauntlet into the ring from our sector to build a targeted 2,600 lbs street trim second gen Camaro by Carbon Kustoms Ltd. that will be the essence of a proto-type rolling shell that we will build for future customers.... This all said, I don't believe the Ring Brothers intend there full car to be 100% carbon and I do take my hat off to them for eclipsing me in there timing to market and execution of what they have achieve to this point... The gang at Ring Brothers are both personal friends (great guys too) and extremely good business leaders. I personally take my hat off to their accomplishments and know they will produce excellent results....

[Musclerodz]

I may be way out in left field on this but everything I am reading about this makes me believe these are all individual panels that can be purchased separately and bonded to your existing body.

I don't think it was their intention to make an ultra light weight full carbon body. I believe their goal was to make a light weight kit to make the stock body 4 inches wider to accommodate wider wheels and increased track width.

That was their initial plan and how most their wide body cars are built. I talked to Mike at length about it at Columbus since he had one of the side panels there and a full carbon body was something he wanted to do, and new the market would be very limited when he started it. He was hoping pricing at that time to be around $35-$40k, but I have not heard a final number.

[Vegas69]

No way you could get Ring Bros to build one of these show stoppers for $250,000.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

As kick ass as a CF body is, I don't see it catching on. Too much money and no way to repair it easily should it be damaged. While we are building race inspired cars, we're not racing them in an arena where a CF body would be advantageous. I just don't see it catching on. Maybe I'm wrong though. I applaud them and anyone else who brings it to market though. It's fantastic what these old cars are inspiring in people still today and the distances companies are willing to go.

As unprecedented as product growth is with this hobby I can say no one will know for sure. I remember when AWD, scalloped brake rotors and carbon fiber roof panels were totally unheard of and hearing comments like" no way will that ever work".
I'm sure there's a new billionaire working over at Facebook thinking hummm "a carbon fiber Mustang".

I already have my CF Mustang tip jar in the shop lounge.

[67XR7]

I see that body being in the $80k on up range. I toured Steve Saleens facility in Irvine many many moons ago and at that time they were showing us the build process for the S7 and if they were saying just the floorboard alone in that car is $20k I imagine this whole car being quite a bit more.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

No way you could get Ring Bros to build one of these show stoppers for $250,000.


Be carefull Todd, you maybe you maybe unknowingly resetting the price.

[96z28ss]

How many of the Downs CF Camaro bodies do you see out there or being built?
The market is small in my opinion.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The real game changer is right here in this thread and I don't think people are aware of the breaking news........

Your shop has a lounge?????:confused59:
haa haa 1 seater surrounded by water features and a paper roll notepad.


yes, small market. People still complain about $4000 subframes and $300 quarter panels.

[GregWeld]

I just think its funny that you guys think you can build a car for $200k.

[Vegas69]

Be carefull Todd, you maybe you maybe unknowingly resetting the price.

We are talking about top of the heap builders and wealth. I'll sleep well tonight. :lol:

[DOOM]

I just think its funny that you guys think you can build a car for $200k.

Exactly Greg! I have a opinion on this that I will keep to myself!:animated_bye_bye_em

[preston]

Its more of a self defense mechanism, i think. I cannot believe there are that many people with that much money that also choose to put it into a custom car.
I completely understand what it takes to build these cars, and if labor is $80+ hour then it boggles my mind what these cars must cost, so I think I just tell myself they are a quarter million and I stop there.

Heck even my jalopy probably has $80k just in retail parts in it, and if my labor is worth $10 hour then MY car easily cost $200k to build LOL !

[WSSix]

My car's not going to cost 200k but then again, it won't be asked to SEMA either I bet.

I agree Vince. There's always someone out their that will justify it or simply want it to have it. Others will follow as well. If this "catches on" I think it'll be in very limited numbers. We'll see. I just happy to see people still wanting to make truly new products for these old cars.

[tazzz2_ca]

My car's not going to cost 200k but then again, it won't be asked to SEMA either I bet.

I agree Vince. There's always someone out their that will justify it or simply want it to have it. Others will follow as well. If this "catches on" I think it'll be in very limited numbers. We'll see. I just happy to see people still wanting to make truly new products for these old cars.

Everyone has there own reasons for developing products and if the truth really were to be discussed in matters like this,, I think you'd find pasion drives these decisions more than economics... is this sector small, incredibly... Will it grow, likely....

On a seperate note the balance beween matterials and utilizing stock pickup points for the bending of such materials will dramatically effect the outcome costs... Numbers being thrown around are all fine,, real world experiences and and time will ultmately tell all..

[mfain]

For what it's worth, I'll add a cost data point from a non-pro. I have been building a lot of personal-use carbon fiber parts for a while, and since they are generally one-off, they cost me about 4 times what it costs to make the same part out of fiber glass, and that does not include labor which is significant. You have to build the part three times -- first a buck, then pull a mold off the buck, and finally build the part in the mold. The carbon fiber final part costs about twice as much in materials as the same part would in fiberglass. Then I end up with a garage full of bucks and molds that I may never use again. If demand was high enough, you might be able to reduce consumer costs a little by amortizing the cost of the bucks/molds with sales volume, but it's still expensive.

Pappy

[tazzz2_ca]

For what it's worth, I'll add a cost data point from a non-pro. I have been building a lot of personal-use carbon fiber parts for a while, and since they are generally one-off, they cost me about 4 times what it costs to make the same part out of fiber glass, and that does not include labor which is significant. You have to build the part three times -- first a buck, then pull a mold off the buck, and finally build the part in the mold. The carbon fiber final part costs about twice as much in materials as the same part would in fiberglass. Then I end up with a garage full of bucks and molds that I may never use again. If demand was high enough, you might be able to reduce consumer costs a little by amortizing the cost of the bucks/molds with sales volume, but it's still expensive.

Pappy

Well put,,,, you need to add some shop overheads, laminate testing/research and some engineering consultation to that equation as well...

[next69]

I have always looked forward to the end of SEMA (because I do not go) to see all of the new products and killer cars that have been tucked away in the back rooms across the country. In the past there has always been a flood of pics on Lateral-G and other sites showing all of the new and exciting products, based on what I have seen here and elsewhere it appears some development budgets have been mothballed, hope everything is OK.