When does a dry sump become necessary?

[Bill71]

I am building a 71 Camaro as a dedicated track car. I'm using 275/35-18 up front. I was considering an LS3 but mynresearch says they have oil control problems using the factory wet sump. Will my car with 275 tires create enough cornering force to cause oil starvation?

[clill]

If you want to run a wet sump but are worried about oil starvation a easy option would be a accusump.

http://www.accusump.com/

It will keep you from losing pressure during a long corner etc.

[GregWeld]

If you want to run a wet sump but are worried about oil starvation a easy option would be a accusump.

http://www.accusump.com/

It will keep you from losing pressure during a long corner etc.




Great advice Charley! The Lotus 2 Eleven even comes with one from the factory!

[57hemicuda]

My answer to that would be: When your sh*t blows up.LOL

[GregWeld]

So I'm no expert on any of this -- but I went to the Lotus dealer today to get some info and some parts --- the service manager seemed quite knowledgable and we discussed many things -- including the tires I planned to change to -- Hoosier R6's.... and imagine my surprise when he told me that if I was going to up the cornering capability that much (over the Yokohama AO48's) that I should consider changing the oil pan to a model that will control the oil better -- "even though the car comes with an Accusump".

My point in all that typing is that it apparently is a more complicated answer than just "should you or shouldn't you" run a dry sump.

What pan and how much oil control/windage do you plan to run... and what's the SUSTAINED corner loads etc.

Take turn 2 at Thunderhill.... where you're in that decreasing radius turn for quite awhile.... and if you can manage that corner at better than a G... maybe a dry sump should be under your Xmas tree. Maybe for running peanut course AutoX --- it might not be important.... and an Accusump would work fine along with a decent pan?

[Bill71]

All I have at this point is the car which I bought as a shell. I have restored the body, added the wheels and tires (NT01s) and cage. I have no idea if it will exceed 1G or not. I was planning to use a trap door pan. Maybe the Accusump will be sufficient.

[mdprovee]

I have very little knowledge or experience, however I used a Champ Road Race pan on my engine. Have done a couple of the Run to the Coast events, and watched my pressure thru a few corners, and the pressure never budged. They have trap doors and holds 8 quarts.

[Flash68]

Based on what you have told us, for your setup (2nd gen, 275 series NT01 tires) I would not say you will be outhandling C6 Vettes with Hoosiers unless there is more to the story. Some of those guys are having problems with sustained high-G corners but not all of them.

I am a big fan and advocate of dry sump, but it is expensive and would not do it unless I deemed it absolutely necessary.

I think you would be fine with the accusump.

Until it blows up (hey, Ron said it first).

:D

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Maybe you could use this?

LS fabricated road race oil pans (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?p=511326#post511326)

[Bill71]

I have very little knowledge or experience, however I used a Champ Road Race pan on my engine. Have done a couple of the Run to the Coast events, and watched my pressure thru a few corners, and the pressure never budged. They have trap doors and holds 8 quarts.

Would this be an LSx or a SBC?

[Flash68]

Would this be an LSx or a SBC?

It's a SBC

[DaleTx]

I am building a 71 Camaro as a dedicated track car. I'm using 275/35-18 up front. I was considering an LS3 but mynresearch says they have oil control problems using the factory wet sump. Will my car with 275 tires create enough cornering force to cause oil starvation?

I faced the same question a couple of years ago and ended up spending the extra money to run to a dry sump oiling system (3.5 gallon oil tank, and a 4 stage dry sump pump). I spent a lot of money on the engine and wanted to make sure I always had good oil pressure when running hard in the corners on the track. It really does comes down to how the car will be used… if you plan to build a dedicated track car for running on road courses with sticky tires, then a dry sump system would be a good investment in my opinion.

For driving mostly on the street or an occasional autocross then a stock set up is ok. Once you get out on a road course and start doing sustained hard cornering (“left and right” hand turns) with track tires then there will be instances when the oil pick-up tube on the wet sump pump is not submerged in oil. A good oil pan design can help to keep the pickup tube submerged when accelerating or decelerating, but no guarantees when turning hard for sustained periods “right and left” (since the pickup is in the center of the pan).

Other advantages of a dry sump system is you can run a larger volume of oil…. and the oil has more time to deaerate before getting pumped back through the engine. I made the decision to go with a dry sump so I could go out and run hard on the track with no worries of oil starvation in the corners, or when running high RPM for extended periods.

It's a few more bucks up front... but worth it in the long run.

:cheers:

[Zspoiler]

Find a road race pan and pickup for it.

[Flash68]

I faced the same question a couple of years ago and ended up spending the extra money to run to a dry sump oiling system (3.5 gallon oil tank, and a 4 stage dry sump pump). I spent a lot of money on the engine and wanted to make sure I always had good oil pressure when running hard in the corners on the track. It really does comes down to how the car will be used… if you plan to build a dedicated track car for running on road courses with sticky tires, then a dry sump system would be a good investment in my opinion.

For driving mostly on the street or an occasional autocross then a stock set up is ok. Once you get out on a road course and start doing sustained hard cornering (“left and right” hand turns) with track tires then there will be instances when the oil pick-up tube on the wet sump pump is not submerged in oil. A good oil pan design can help to keep the pickup tube submerged when accelerating or decelerating, but no guarantees when turning hard for sustained periods “right and left” (since the pickup is in the center of the pan).

Other advantages of a dry sump system is you can run a larger volume of oil…. and the oil has more time to deaerate before getting pumped back through the engine. I made the decision to go with a dry sump so I could go out and run hard on the track with no worries of oil starvation in the corners, or when running high RPM for extended periods.

It's a few more bucks up front... but worth it in the long run.

:cheers:

Well done by Dale. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

Sounds like a budget build? In that case, I'd go road race pan and 3qt accusump for insurance. I will add that the function of an accusump is not to make up for poor oil control, it's to come to the rescue in extreme situations ONLY.

On a road race car, I'd put in an oil pressure dummy light. I never had much time to look at the gauges in the corner!:lol:

[The T-man]

. Maybe for running peanut course AutoX --- it might not be important....

lol...peanut course:thumbsup:
Real cars = Endurance Road Racing