I'm Starting Some Trouble....

[214Chevy]

I know we have some die hard "make/model" purists on here. You know the kind who has a heart attack when someone else builds a car the way they want to with their hard earned money. Yes, the kind that puts a LS motor in a Ford or the one that takes out a 440 6-pack out of a one owner Mopar and replaces it with a brand, spankin new fuel injected Hemi. Yeah, I'm talking about the purists who feel they have a right of passage to the owner should build the car they want to see the car and not the way the owner himself wants it. LOL!! Are you that kind of person? LOL!! Well, anyway...watch this video. I'd figure it would piss off some of you Mustang purists. Hahahahah!!

hRJfS9sfyIk#t=97


Here's the link to the internet story...>>>>http://wot.motortrend.com/ford-mustang-fastback-tribute-supercar-has-a-corvette-zr1-heart-408197.html#axzz2gr9oE6bh
The word “modern” doesn’t really come to mind when thinking about classic muscle cars, but car company Equus is set on changing that with the Bass770, a an old-school muscle car lookalike supposedly built to modern supercar standards. Not only is it a mash-up of old and new, but the car is also combines elements of the Mustang and Corvette.

With a fastback body and horse emblems on the front grille and rear decklid, the Bass770 resembles the fastback version of the Ford Mustang that started it all. Unlike the muscle cars of yesteryear, the Bass770 utilizes a lightweight aluminum body that’s lined with carbon fiber. Equus tells us the car has been in development for six years.

While the Bass770 is all Blue Oval on the outside, it’s all about the Bowtie underneath the hood. The LS9 6.2-liter supercharged V-8 and Magnetic Ride Control were borrowed from GM, with the tribute to the Mustang fastback’s 640 hp and 605 lb-ft of torque roughly matching the 2013 Chevrolet Corvette’s ZR1′s 638 hp and 604 lb-ft. Power is sent to the wheels via a six-speed dual-clutch transmission, and Equus says its modern supercar can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 3.4 seconds.

Although the interior stays retro with analog-style gauges, old-school air vents, and an old-fashioned ball shift knob, the dashboard is covered in black leather and the headliner in Alcantara. The Bass770 can also be had in a bespoke version, in which the owner is paired with a designer who can customize the car to give it a racing-ready look or, as Equus suggests, “extreme luxury refinement” or a complete new design. The regular model costs $250,000 while the bespoke variant carries a $300,000 price. Check out the Bass770 — the Mustang-like supercar with a Corvette ZR1 heart — in the gallery and video below.



Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/ford-mustang-fastback-tribute-supercar-has-a-corvette-zr1-heart-408197.html#ixzz2grG2BYSJ
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[W1zuhD]

i do enjoy this car. it has some great aspects of old muscle (arguably the best of each piled together) with an amazing powerplant and performance.

i did not so much enjoy the movie but do enjoy seeing more of the Horse.

[214Chevy]

i do enjoy this car. it has some great aspects of old muscle (arguably the best of each piled together) with an amazing powerplant and performance.

i did not so much enjoy the movie but do enjoy seeing more of the Horse.

Yes, the car is crazy. The movie wasn't too bad. I did enjoy the part when the cop took off in the 'Stang and was burning rubber through the streets though. You gotta admit, that was some cool driving. By the way, welcome to the site. What part of Dallas are you in? I'm in Dallas too.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

as long as it works and does it well powerplant shouldnt matter. remember the 2jz in a mustang?

[Che70velle]

Marcus I had a vendor telling me about the cars yesterday, but it hadn't seen one yet. Thanks for posting!

[Ketzer]

RingBros Pantera supposedly has an LS3. I'm at the opposite end of the scale from a purist, but ... haven't we evolved enough that we don't have to put a small block Chevy in every hotrod just because it's easy?:underchair:


Jeff-

[clill]

No....we put a LS engine in everything because it is the best engine on the planet. :-)

[GregWeld]

No....we put a LS engine in everything because it is the best engine on the planet. :-)



WHAT HE SAID ^^^^^^^^^^^ Except it's really the best engine in the entire UNIVERSE! <Thanks Al>




They even fit in Ford hot rods!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Brizio/file-32.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Brizio/file-32.jpg.html)

[Rick D]

^^^What Charlie & Greg said!!! :mock:

[mfain]

They even fit in a classic Jag, but the Jag club has absolutely no sense of humor.

42369

Pappy

[Steve Chryssos]

Don't forget the LS powered rocking chair -- the most important development of this century or any other.
pJ9-yw6EgCQ

[Steve Chryssos]

As for the car, is it Bass or Bass?

Bass:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fish/Resources/BlackBass/images/LargemouthBass.jpg

Bass:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/06/subwoofer_3.jpg

[WSSix]

Cool car. The name I'm not so sure about though. Actually, I am sure. I think it's dumb. Seriously, Bass? WTF?

[fleetus macmullitz]

There are better motors in the world than the LS, but the LS purists wouldn't replace their LS with one of 'em.


:tv_happy:

[clill]

And a example of a better engine ?

[Ketzer]

Ok, most of you are waaayyy more savvy than me and have owned more hotrods than I could dream to, but you're telling me that the LS is the holy grail and Ford has not made a single modern engine that even comes close?

I get how easy and bulletproof they are. I have an LS project in the works myself but it is a Chevy. When I see nicely done Ford (usually pre-war, usually a really nice build) and they've dropped an LS in there (with all the bullsh!t plastic covers still on it) I think "that's a shame, you had a chance to do something here"...

I am not picking on GW here, his latest is super super nice. It could have a Briggs and Stratton and it wouldn't take away from it.


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

I see The Skippah has yet to defend his "there's something better than an LS" claim.... HA! Good luck with that one!




Jeff ----


Roy and I did discuss the "Ford in a Ford".... only just because. However, the modern Fords are too wide for the little hot rod noses... and there just aren't a variety of parts so now you get into all manor of custom pieces - thus driving up the cost.

That left the option of doing "old skool" Ford -- such as a Roush -- but his motor prices are beyond ridiculous... AND I met a guy at L A Roadster show that had issues with his Roush - they wouldn't stand behind it - he had it torn down and it was nothing but a factory crate motor internally. So needless to say -- whether this was true or not (I believe it to be fact) I've had enough issues with '32 and wanted this build to be as trouble free as I could TRY to make it.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

If Ford made a perfect engine they might make some money.

What makes the 5.0L Coyote and "not so perfect" engine?

[fleetus macmullitz]

I see The Skippah has yet to defend his "there's something better than an LS" claim.... HA! Good luck with that one!


Greg,

As you can see from the pic, I'm a happy, upbeat kinda guy; and these debates often aren't internet friendly, so I'd rather discuss it in person.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/Funnies/f8809c17-15c7-4713-8780-355f41e70552_zps7407fea4.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/wnyjazz/media/Funnies/f8809c17-15c7-4713-8780-355f41e70552_zps7407fea4.jpg.html)

That way we can always hug it out if the discussion ends badly.

:thankyou:

[Che70velle]

I've been involved in this hobby a long time, and if I had a dollar for every 34' ford I've seen with a small block chevy in it...

This has been going on for decades. Why? I'm not sure, maybe it's the dollar amount involved. Maybe it's because GM built gazillions of the sbc's. I've never been involved with a ford project of my own that required an engine swap, but I think that if I were building a ford, it would be ford powered. But I definitely get what your saying GW.

Keep in mind guys that this LS engine you speak of has been out since late 96'.
That's 17 years. Shoot, it's already being replaced by the new gen5 LT engines.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

true, but look how long the Ford flat head was the big dog.

[GregWeld]

If Ford made a perfect engine they might make some money.

What makes the 5.0L Coyote and "not so perfect" engine?





We can just start with the simple fact that it's FIVE INCHES WIDER than the LARGER displacement 6.2L LS3 480hp motor!

There isn't a spare 5" width (as measured at the valve cover to valve cover) just hanging around --- in many applications - and particularly in 30's hot rods that are already pinched in the nose...

Why go to all the work and expense just to prove some pointless point?

The LS motor is cheap - small - reliable - doesn't leak - is easy to source a multitude of parts for... headers - accessory drives - and on and on....

So the Coyote 5.0L motor is 412hp and costs $6300 and I can buy a 480hp LS3 crate motor that's easier in every way to install for $300 more.... There's really not much of a compelling reason for the "Ford in a Ford" in my book.

[Matt@BOS]

If Ford made a perfect engine they might make some money.

What makes the 5.0L Coyote and "not so perfect" engine?

The mod motor sucks for hot rodders because it isn't a small block Chevy. :lol:

If you want big power numbers out of a mod motor you're looking at big dollars for an n/a build, or well, a blower motor, which isn't cheap either.

Hot rodders also love big cubes and with the mod motors bore spacing, that becomes an issue.

[badmatt]

Mod motors cost a lot of money to work with.

Plus I agree with Greg, I just did a valve spring replacement in my dads 07 F150.... on cylinder #4, The tool was grossly expensive, not to mention you cant even get both hands any wear near anything unless your freakishly small!

SBX or LSX till I die.

[uxojerry]

Everyone thinks the SBF or SBC/BBC are obsolete unless you spend time on various racing forums. I dont mind seeing an LS9 in a Mustang, but if I see one more 5.3l swap, Im going to puke, lol.

The 8.2" deck SBF is an awful practical engine for a swap into a car with limited space. A 331 SBF with High Port heads will easily hit 500hp and isnt particularly expensive. They sound wonderful shifting at 8000rpm.

The LS is a great motor and is very cost effective. I am often baffled when I see a $100k+ car build and then they dump a crate LS3 into it. As an example they have come out with an updated W409 motor bored to 509ci. The engine puts out near 700hp, is available in all aluminum with efi. Butler Performance is doing similar with Pontiac motors. Another vendor is coming out with new Oldsmobile stuff.

A few years ago, the Gen 4 motor made every Gen 3 obsolete. In the near future the Gen 5 may do the same. Using the cars original engine architecture with new high performance blocks, heads and efi make for a more timeless car build, It also honors the heritage and DNA of the car. For the record, I am not a numbers matching guy.

I am working on a C2 Corvette with a 700hp+ SBC with 8 stack efi and have a chrome bumper C3. The C3 will get a 900hp+ BBC. I stuck with traditional modernized engines for the reasons stated above. Both engines are/will be NA, built with off the shelf parts!

For the record that Mustang with the LS9 could have been built with a 650hp 9.5" deck SBF for a lot less money. The weight argument is moot when you factor in LS9 dry sump and supercharger weight.

42392

42393

You could order the drag pack motor with the 8 stack and still be $3k-$4k under the cost of the LS9 with all of the hardware. Either engine is available in aluminum.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Ford engineers need to go back to the drawing board and start making something that will work. An inexpensive, compact, 390+ cube aluminum engine.

[WSSix]

HP/$ the LSx platform wins every time with EFI. You might be able to do better if you stay carbed with other options but I doubt it. Modern Ford motors are overly complex mechanically. There's nothing superior about the design of a Mod motor and to me, that's sad. I say this because it costs so much to modify one that it drives your hobbyist away compared to many other readily available alternatives be it a SBC/LSX or even a traditional SBF/BBF. People used to believe that OHC was the future given its advantages. The LSx platform crushed that idea. VVT is further proving that OHC is not necessary. Ford went with the "advanced" design and have ended up with an overly complex engine. It's obviously not hurting sales of their vehicles which is all they care about but we are concerned with other factors. The Mod motor just doesn't work for a lot of people. I do like seeing them, for instance Matt's mustang, but I understand the reasons they aren't around as much as the LSx.

Now EcoBoost is cool. That's not motor design though.

[GregWeld]

The LS is a great motor and is very cost effective. I am often baffled when I see a $100k+ car build and then they dump a crate LS3 into it. As an example they have come out with an updated W409 motor bored to 509ci. The engine puts out near 700hp, is available in all aluminum with efi.




Sorry and don't take this personally because it's not meant to be -- but I have to call BS right there at the W409 aluminum block with EFI -- because I called Mister Walden -- the birth father of that particular motor and spoke to him personally and was quoted "Around 50 GRAND" for that particular motor.....


So let's not even consider that as a viable alternative for ANYTHING!

[GregWeld]

And ya know -- I got to thinking about it --- and the quote might have been 35 GRAND --- It was a couple summers ago....


EITHER WAY -- I couldn't get off the phone fast enough....:confused18: :rofl:

[uxojerry]

42394

This engine is $21.5k as depicted but is all aluminum. Ive seen other vendors doing iron blocks for less. I didnt say it was cheap, but it is not astronomical either.

[GregWeld]

42394

This engine is $21.5k as depicted but is all aluminum. Ive seen other vendors doing iron blocks for less. I didnt say it was cheap, but it is not astronomical either.



Oh yeah -- but you just forgot to add the aforementioned EFI.... Can't really compare carb motors to EFI.

[uxojerry]

Ok add $3k for the FAST 1.0 and 2nd TBI option.

[GregWeld]

Ok add $3k for the FAST 1.0 and 2nd TBI option.


BTW -- I was just yanking your chain! But you know this group is going to hold everyones feet to the fire!

HAHAHAHAHA --- Okay -- that's MORE THAN THREE TIMES what I just spent for a LS3....

[214Chevy]

You could order the drag pack motor with the 8 stack and still be $3k-$4k under the cost of the LS9 with all of the hardware. Either engine is available in aluminum.

Jerry, for the simple fact the LS9 is supercharged, of course a carbed or 8 stack will be cheaper. The supercharger is $7k alone. So, there's the difference right there.

[GregWeld]

Jerry, for the simple fact the LS9 is supercharged, of course a carbed or 8 stack will be cheaper. The supercharger is $7k alone. So, there's the difference right there.




He's not going to win his case...... no matter how hard he's going to try.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <laughing like that trucker dude on Ice Road Truckers>

[uxojerry]

Your right Gregg, lol. Progress starts in baby steps!! Here is some real sacrilege as a C2 Corvette or any other Corvette model never had a W motor.

42395

42396

I love following the high end C6 Corvette FI builds where they are hitting 1100rwhp+ and are forced to revert back to a modified Power Glide or Turbo 400 to handle all of the horsepower, lol. I shall not bring up the venerable Ford 9".

[214Chevy]

He's not going to win his case...... no matter how hard he's going to try.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <laughing like that trucker dude on Ice Road Truckers>

I know right GW. Also, The LS9 is packed with forged goodies in order to handle boost. Therefore, making it ultimately more expensive. A carbed motor that Jerry is harping about can be built with basic bottom to middle parts for N/A if someone wanted to save money.

[214Chevy]

Also, comparing EFI/supercharged motors to carbed-N/A motors is like comparing 3-piece wheels to cast wheels. Of course one is more expensive than the other. There's just no comparison in general. Will a carbed motor get the job done just like a cast wheel will...yes. Is it necessary to spend $12-$20k or more on an EFI or supercharged motor like it's necessary to spend $8k-$10k or more on 3-piece wheels...no. See where I'm going with the comparison thing?

[preston]

I'm going through this debate right now - Last build of my SBF I put on too big of heads and with low CR and a small cam I have classic low end sogginess. At this point in my life I think I would really appreciate a full on OEM programmed combination - With the twins, I am never lacking for all out power, but I want it to have GREAT throttle response and OEM manners rather than me programming it on an aftermarket EFI and guessing at a good combo. The two options are LS or Coyote, and the Coyote will just not fit (custom tube chassis).

But a Mustang like mine cannot have an LS motor...Tried it in my mind, couldn't do it. So when I get back to the engine I'm thinking of ponying up having Kaase or someone equivalent take my good parts and specify a killer top end combination but even with pro help programming it will never match OEM based EFI LS driveability and startup and mileage. I love the idea that with modern heads and cam technology and a sheet metal or ITB manifold, I can have something a little wonderful compared to the past, but its definitely not going to be as ea$y as the modern LS combos.

So I hate to agree with the argument, but brand heritage is the ONLY reason I don't go with an LS. Plus, I guess its a little bit more interesting when bench racing to have the old skool motor. And that Coyote makes good power, and winds up high, but...its still just a 5.0 too.

[GregWeld]

Also, comparing EFI/supercharged motors to carbed-N/A motors is like comparing 3-piece wheels to cast wheels. Of course one is more expensive than the other. There's just no comparison in general. Will a carbed motor get the job done just like a cast wheel will...yes. Is it necessary to spend $12-$20k or more on an EFI or supercharged motor like it's necessary to spend $8k-$10k or more on 3-piece wheels...no. See where I'm going with the comparison thing?




I just had one off billet wheels built (actually Roy Brizio had them built) for the '33.... I haven't seen the bill yet. :faint:

[GregWeld]

I just look at it this way --- it's HOT RODDING -- which means you use whatever you can afford - or makes sense - or someone gives you - or you have laying around. In hot rodding -- there was NEVER any brand loyalty.... it was a Caddy motor in your Merc if that's what a guy had.... or a Olds in your '32 Ford....


We use FORD 9" because for the most part they're cheap - easy - strong as hell - and you can get all the brake parts etc for them you could ever want...


I know that Roy was cringing silently when I said what motor I wanted to use in the '33... but when he drives it -- he'll be singing the LS Motors praises! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- I'm serious!

[WSSix]

Jerry, we need more info on the C2 build using that motor. That's gorgeous! Seriously, we need more pictures and info :D

[FETorino]

Two things.

A Ford Modular motor is a versatile package that has proven dependable and has plenty of performance potential.

It is a wide package and so doesn't make sense in some applications such as GWs 33.

Ford started putting EFI on the 5.0 in 1980. They refined this motor until 96 or 97 when they switched to the mod motor in the Mustang. You can build a Windsor with all kinds of potential and streetability using either Ford or aftermarket parts.

Fords little 5.0 reignited the pony car wars and reintroduced hp with EFI and emissions standards.

But if you want more that 500hp from a factory crate motor Ford Windsors are not for you. You can build one easy enough but you need to hook up with a good builder.


Chevy kept at the pushrod v8 and so was born the LS. They have kept refining it to the level it is today. So from the factory you can buy a well mannered high hp OEM engine for a decent price. And this engine shares the same basic dimensions as SBX from the 50s. So you get equal modern refinement to the Mod motor in a plug and play for old car size, can't deny it.

They run well and don't leak so I agree with greg hood down for a car you drive a lot they are a good package. But open the hood and they look like crap. They also never sound as good as say an SB2 or a SBF.

So pick your poison.

GW just likes LS motors and for good reason. But an EFI Windsor could have delivered everything he wanted. It's not like an LS is the only option although it is probably the easy way out if you don't care what is under the hood.

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Totally agree on the FUGLY Rob!


No way I'd put one in a can and open the hood....


But I think once a guy drives one -- they work so damn well.... that the Fugly becomes a love affair.

[uxojerry]

I havnt posted the photo in awhile because Im slowly amassing the final parts for the build. All of the new parts are paid for and should be arriving soon. I am working in Asia and the car is in Tx. Im not in a rush to complete as it will just sit in my garage.

42397

That is an 8 stack efi good to 1000hp. In the photo the SBC 427 dynod at 565fwhp. That wasnt sufficient, so it is getting custom ported afr 245s, solid roller cam, 1:7 shaft rockers and a Meth/Water injection system to run pump gas and higher compression. C2 build summary:

SBC 427 efi
T56 Magnum with final drive of .50
Mccleod Twin Disc
Street Shop custom chassis with QA1s and D44HD irs @ 3:55
Baer 6Ps
18x10 and 18x12 billet specialties wheels with Pilot Sport Tires
Fender Flares from Sermersheim
Hydro-boost
ISIS wiring, Dakota digital dash and LED tail lights
6pt roll bar
Corbeau seats for 5 pt harness
Car will reamain sunflower yellow.

C3 is a 68 Coupe rolling body with no birdcage rust, no photos handy. The C3 will be done in L88 fashion with a BBC/efi and T56. A big bore short stroke motor will used to keep the torque down and preserve the T56 and irs.

WS6 that W motor in the C2 is not mine. It is another build in the Corvette C1/C2 forum section.

[FETorino]

Totally agree on the FUGLY Rob!


No way I'd put one in a can and open the hood....


But I think once a guy drives one -- they work so damn well.... that the Fugly becomes a love affair.

I was being kind when I said Ugly but yes FUGLY is more appropriate.:lmao:

I just always find it funny though how little imagination and $$ is often used in choosing a motor package vs say hood hinges and door handles.:P

:cheers:

[Sieg]

GW just likes LS motors and for good reason. But an EFI Windsor could have delivered everything he wanted. It's not like an LS is the only option although it is probably the easy way out if you don't care what is under the hood.

:cheers:
I suggested this one........:popcorn2:

http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/5070709.001.Mini17L-655x491.jpg

[GregWeld]

Okay --- I'm sorry --- but I got a good chuckle out of you describing a 427 SBC as a "short stroke"... and yes I've had a couple of them.

Best motor I ever built was when I DESTROKED my 427 to a 408... and put Dart 180cc heads on it... that bad boy made the same HP but had considerably more torque down in the range where it made the most fun motor I've ever owned. 525 #'s of TQ at 4600 rpms.... It was all out of air at 5600...

Oh - that and it actually had some oil control.

[uxojerry]

The SBC is not a short stroke. The SBC 427 is a 4" stroke x 4.125" bore. The BBC will be a 4.6" bore x 3.75" stroke 499ci, or most likely a 4.6" x 4" stroke 532ci. Max stroke on a short deck BBC is 4.5" with some massaging, ie a BBC 598.

[Matt@BOS]

I was being kind when I said Ugly but yes FUGLY is more appropriate.:lmao:


:cheers:

You can't just label LS engines fugly...

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0090.jpg (http://s366.photobucket.com/user/69MSA/media/DSC_0090.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

Terrible! Like a train wreck you just can't look away....


You can't just label LS engines fugly...

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0090.jpg (http://s366.photobucket.com/user/69MSA/media/DSC_0090.jpg.html)

[clill]

The above pic kinda shoots the ugly comments all to hell. As for the BMW engine...Are they plentiful like the LS, lots of aftermarket parts ? Easy to work on ? I still maintain that for the money you can't beat the power, dependability etc of a LS.:catfight:

[GregWeld]

Fugly is for STOCK appearing LSx motors*



*you know - like the one in my '33





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

Terrible! Like a train wreck you just can't look away.... :lmao:

As for the BMW engine...Are they plentiful like the LS, lots of aftermarket parts ? Easy to work on ? I still maintain that for the money you can't beat the power, dependability etc of a LS.:catfight:
Are you actually trying to apply reasonable logic to this hobby? :confused59:
I was thinking BMW for width and hp to weight ratio. :captain1:

[Ketzer]

I still maintain that for the money ...

Because this is the driving force of your Stigalow collection..... :G-Dub: :poke:




( I DO agree Charlie, a junkyard 5.3 with a cam and some head massaging could make 400-450hp all day and never break. You couldn't even rebuild a bone stock old school engine for what you would have in the LS.

Jeff-

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I'd compare the 5.3's to the old 327's. Cheap and easy to find. Sure it gets the job done but it's no 350 or 400... But you can't tell without looking hard.

[tones2SS]

I saw this car on my Mustang forum last week.
I LOVE the car. A couple of things I would have done a little different, but very nice. But, not over $220k nice in my opinion.

[FETorino]

Fugly is for STOCK appearing LSx motors*



*you know - like the one in my '33





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You can't just label LS engines fugly...

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/DSC_0090.jpg (http://s366.photobucket.com/user/69MSA/media/DSC_0090.jpg.html)

We were discussing the stock style crate motors like GWs. I have to agree with GWs call they are FUGLY. Now spend a few :G-Dub: on bling and they dress up real nice.

[uxojerry]

42416

42417

Too show that I do like LS motors, I collect what I think are good ideas. The LSX 454 photos are from a classic Chevelle. Who can argue with that engine compartment? I also think LS motors with a nice sheet metal intake look great. If I dont put a BBC in my C3 Corvette it will be an LSX 454R with efi. Who can argue with 770hp @ 7100rpm.:)

[clill]

Here is Welds version.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/coldbastrd/coldbastrd057/31563830003_large_zpsf8d2ee55.jpg

[glassman]

Just stumbled onto this "debate", being gone for a week and DRIVING my LS powered camaro on its maiden voyage 2o85 miles, ummmmmm got 24.85 mpg doing 80 most the way, spinning 2000 rpm (3:73's& t-56) stock.

Well, I'm sold through experience.......if ya asked me two months ago, I may have giving you a different answer....but nothing like seat time

P.s., about three runs up to a hundred, and plenty of "foot in it" driving....but know I've got some minor driveline issues, can u say "new chassis" in the works for phase III?

[syborg tt]

Well this motor has peaked my interest. Need more info as the motor is out of Dad's 62 Bubble Top 409 right now.



42394

This engine is $21.5k as depicted but is all aluminum. Ive seen other vendors doing iron blocks for less. I didnt say it was cheap, but it is not astronomical either.

[GregWeld]

Well this motor has peaked my interest. Need more info as the motor is out of Dad's 62 Bubble Top 409 right now.




Are you serious?? You'd have to had been living down a rabbit hole to not know about Walden and the aluminum block 409.... it's been in the works for years - and as such has been in every hot rod magazine about a zillion times.

Come on Marty -- put down Mud Bike Weekly and pick up a real magazine... :snapout: :action-smiley-027: :lol:

[GregWeld]

Here is Welds version.




Hey -- At least it's got Cobra badges....

[uxojerry]

I had a good afternoon at the engine builders today I was hoping for a little more on the dyno but very pleased with the end results. 409 original block! 475 CI She made 782.7 HP @7400RPM & 580 FPT

hot rod 087
__________________
62 Biscayne
409 Stick
ET 9.95 @ 133.74MPH
61 Biscayne
409 Stick
ET?

W409

[214Chevy]

Come on Marty -- put down Mud Bike Weekly and pick up a real magazine... :snapout: :action-smiley-027: :lol:

:rofl: :rofl:

[GregWeld]

I had a good afternoon at the engine builders today I was hoping for a little more on the dyno but very pleased with the end results. 409 original block! 475 CI She made 782.7 HP @7400RPM & 580 FPT




Will that ^^^^^^^^^ Fit in this \/ \/ \/........






Here is Welds version.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/coldbastrd/coldbastrd057/31563830003_large_zpsf8d2ee55.jpg

[syborg tt]

I like Mountain Bike Action and Dirt Rag never seen Mud Bike Weekly. I am going to look for that one.

lol - I think I've got Sr. convinced to buy a complete new motor for the car.

Are you serious?? You'd have to had been living down a rabbit hole to not know about Walden and the aluminum block 409.... it's been in the works for years - and as such has been in every hot rod magazine about a zillion times.

Come on Marty -- put down Mud Bike Weekly and pick up a real magazine... :snapout: :action-smiley-027: :lol:

[Ketzer]

Jeebus! That 509 is sexy!



Jeff-

[GregWeld]

I like Mountain Bike Action and Dirt Rag never seen Mud Bike Weekly. I am going to look for that one.

lol - I think I've got Sr. convinced to buy a complete new motor for the car.




Here Marty --- I found something where you could "mix" both your loves....





nq2jY1trxqg#t=55

[uxojerry]

Marty-mj If you do a new W engine hold on to the iron block. Good ones are in high demand because the aluminum block is the only one in production. The C2 with the iron block 487ci W409 weighed the engine, and it was 60lbs or so lighter than a BBC.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Marty-mj If you do a new W engine hold on to the iron block. Good ones are in high demand because the aluminum block is the only one in production. The C2 with the iron block 487ci W409 weighed the engine, and it was 60lbs or so lighter than a BBC.

This place is 'appearing' to make aluminum 'W's as well.

http://www.409raceparts.com/

[GregWeld]

This place is 'appearing' to make aluminum 'W's as well.

http://www.409raceparts.com/




Only ONE guy to have a W motor built..... This be THE MAN!


http://www.lamarwaldenautomotive.com

[uxojerry]

42436

42437

The Motown LS Hybrid never gained a lot of popularity but it does make a lot of power. Maybe more power than an LS motor with the same heads. The dyno sheet is from a 13.5:1 motor which would make a good E85 power plant. Knock it down to pump gas and it will still be 785hp or so. It is using Brodix BR7 heads which are medium priced custom heads when compared to All Pro's, LSR's, etc.

The engine is $12.9k from Ohio Crankshaft. An LS motor at that power level would be $20k or better. This engine makes sense if you have a lot of SBC stuff like a billet serpentine assy, etc.

Ive put up a lot of motors lately, only to show that there is a lot of good stuff out there. Ive never badmouthed an LS and think they are great. I wanted to show examples that an LS is not the only way to make good horsepower!

My primary interest is in engines. Everyone has a passion, lol.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Here's what Lamar's son Rob posted on a 348-409 forum I 'infrequent'.
__________________________________________________ _____


Rob Walden (http://www.348-409.com/forum/index.php?members/rob-walden.5903/) Supporting Member 1
http://www.348-409.com/images/supporter.gif



models916 said: ↑ (http://www.348-409.com/forum/index.php?goto/post&id=186601#post-186601)
Walden was talking $50k for his version, wasn't he?
------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure where you got you info on the prices but we have never told anyone $50k for a motor! The most expensive loaded up with all options and electronic fuel injection alum 509 motor turn key and dynoed is $28.5.

http://www.348-409.com/forum/index.php?threads/shafiroff-announces-world-509-build-at-pri-show.22306/page-2

[GregWeld]

Yeah Skippah -- I had retracted that statement after I thought about it for 10 minutes - it was so long ago I could only remember it being seriously expensive. I actually called and talked to Walden for a buddy that was interested so it wasn't a "quote" I committed to memory.



Actually --- a 50K motor --- is from H&H Flatheads for their BILLET flattie with a Scotie blower... and billet pan etc...Ardun heads... and makes --- wait for it ---- 300 hp


http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0811rc_h_and_h_flatheads/

[fleetus macmullitz]

Yeah Skippah -- I had retracted that statement after I thought about it for 10 minutes - it was so long ago I could only remember it being seriously expensive. I actually called and talked to Walden for a buddy that was interested so it wasn't a "quote" I committed to memory.

Actually --- a 50K motor --- is from S&H Flatheads for their BILLET flattie with a Scotie blower... and billet pan etc... and makes --- wait for it ---- 300 hp

Greg,

Ouch on the flattie cost and lack of power.

Truly to each his own. :)

[GregWeld]

Greg,

Ouch on the flattie cost and lack of power.

Truly to each his own. :)



Well it made a little closer to 400 -- but when you're Jorge Zaragoza --- you just get to build whatever you feel like...

[fleetus macmullitz]

Well it made a little closer to 400 -- but when you're Jorge Zaragoza --- you just get to build whatever you feel like...

I could see how it might appeal to some gearhead putting one of those motors in a great looking 'cruiser' from the flattie era.

Rob Walden said they build approximately 75 W409's a year...a motor we certainly almost never see mentioned on here.

But they sure look fine IMO. :cool:

[Ketzer]

Well it made a little closer to 400 -- but when you're Jorge Zaragoza --- you just get to build whatever you feel like...

What is $50k to a $500k build, right GW?




Jeff-

[GregWeld]

What is $50k to a $500k build, right GW?




Jeff-



It's that kind of thinking that causes the build to get to $500K....

....and when you start with the "average" hot rod coming out of So San Fran is half that to begin with... it doesn't take long to get the rest of the way there.

Funny -- I was watching Velocity TV last night (had to be really really bored!) and they were discussing the cost of a Bently GT Speed being a base price of $244K... and I thought - "that's outrageous!".... and then I thought... OH SNAP.... actually you get quite a bit of car for that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[fleetus macmullitz]

Don't forget the LS powered rocking chair -- the most important development of this century or any other.
pJ9-yw6EgCQ


:lol:

Just watched the vid.

Quite the coup them Brit's used an American motor too. :unibrow:

[Ketzer]

Funny -- I was watching Velocity TV last night (had to be really really bored!) and they were discussing the cost of a Bently GT Speed being a base price of $244K... and I thought - "that's outrageous!".... and then I thought... OH SNAP.... actually you get quite a bit of car for that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Neck warmers are nice, but I'd rather ride in the '32 if you please...



Jeff-

[fleetus macmullitz]

I'll agree with him...

"The Gen V small-block engines are among the most advanced and high-tech in the world.–Steve Finch, Tonawanda plant manager."

http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-stories/engine/building-chevys-new-lt1-at-the-updated-tonawanda-engine-plant/

[FETorino]

Ok you win LS is the way to go :lmao: :lmao: :mock:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1309_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge_friday_c overage/viewall.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1309_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge_friday_c overage/photo_02.html#

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/ford-cobra-409-jon-kaase_zpsd78d9f76.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/ford-cobra-409-jon-kaase_zpsd78d9f76.jpg.html)

[Matt@BOS]

Those three mod motors in the challenge were all making impressive numbers. To meet the minimum displacement rule of 401 cubes they were all running a 3.72 bore and a 4.56 stroke, I think. I never knew anyone stroked those motors. Talk about under square.

[GregWeld]

If I blow up the Muttstang again --- since this is the third "breakage".... it's going to get an LS motor!

[Sieg]

If I blow up the Muttstang again --- since this is the third "breakage".... it's going to get an LS motor!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fSsHRnz/1/S/i-fSsHRnz-S.jpg

[Stuart Adams]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fSsHRnz/1/S/i-fSsHRnz-S.jpg

Love that sign.

[COYBILT]

Love that sign.

Lmao that is funny

[FETorino]

If I blow up the Muttstang again --- since this is the third "breakage".... it's going to get an LS motor!

Sounds like you need to find a guy who knows how to build a motor.:confused59:

[GregWeld]

Sounds like you need to find a guy who knows how to build a motor.:confused59:



It's why they call it racin'.....

[Sieg]

It's why they call it racin'.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111190551110?item=111190551110&viewitem&vxp=mtr

:angel:

[Flash68]

Sounds like you need to find a guy who knows how to build a motor.:confused59:

It's why they call it racin'.....

Mr FE is still living vicariously through others, the EMC and his dyno glory days.

:lostmarbles:

[GregWeld]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111190551110?item=111190551110&viewitem&vxp=mtr

:angel:



That would have me giving up 40HP!!


Oddo will make the engine in it right....



I just don't understand why I can't rev it to 10,000.... I'll have to have a talk with him.

[tones2SS]

Ok you win LS is the way to go :lmao: :lmao: :mock:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1309_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge_friday_c overage/viewall.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/1309_2013_amsoil_engine_masters_challenge_friday_c overage/photo_02.html#

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/ford-cobra-409-jon-kaase_zpsd78d9f76.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/ford-cobra-409-jon-kaase_zpsd78d9f76.jpg.html)

John Kaase can build some sick FoMo engines!! :trophy-1302: