Engine choice - Gen I SBC vs. LSx

[carbuff]

Hi guys,

I believe this is my first post here, but some of you probably remember me from days of old... :) I'm starting to plan my next project, and I'm looking for a little input from others of you who may have gone through the same choice...

So, my car will be another 2nd gen Camaro. My question of the moment is, what should I do for a powerplant... It will be backed by a T56 either way, but I'm debating the merits of a LSx style motor against a Gen I SBC...

World Products is now offering an aluminum version of their Motown SBC block. So, depending on the exact pricing, I can probably purchase a 415ci short block for close to the same costs as an LS2 block based 402ci short block. Figuring that most of the rest of the components are going to come out to about the same total costs, I can probably put together roughly similar setups with either as my start point.

The question is this. From everything I read on the LS1/2/6 boards, it seems that you can make a lot of NA power from an LSx based platform pretty easily without radical camshaft timings, etc. I just read about a 402ci LS2 setup that's making in excess of 550rwhp on a 244/250 cam. To me, that's just amazing! I don't know exactly what it would take to get similar numbers from a Gen I SBC, but I bet it would take a good bit more cam and be a more radical motor.

Have others seen the same types of results? And if you were starting from scratch right now, which way would you go? There are some reasons why using a Gen I style SBC would make things a bit easier... (still injected, mind you). But it's hard to overlook the capabilities of the new style engines...

I'm interested to hear what others think about this topic...

Bryan

[XcYZ]

Hi Bryan. I definitely remember you and your car. I still have pictures of it stashed somewhere on my computer, it was an awesome color combo. :)

Getting to the motor, that's a tough one as there are a lot of different ways to approach it. However, there's NO disputing how awesome the LSx is. If I had to start from scratch on a motor right now, I'd most likely do a big bore LSx. As you pointed out, it's just amazing what's being done with that package. It's lightweight, parts are just about as easy to find as parts for a SBC, and you are ahead of the game when in comes to the EFI. If you plan on having fuel injection anyways, I'd do the LSx.

My next project will have an LS7 with boost. :D

[DCreations]

Welcome bryan

Are you planning on running some big meats out back? :unibrow:

I say go with the lsx style motor.

[camcojb]

Hey buddy! :D I agree with the above, the LSX engines have great heads that can really flow with some port work. That and the light weight is very cool. If it was an all-out race motor I'd lean towards the standard small blocks, but for a 450-500 rwhp n/a deal I like the ls setup.

I would be very curious how he got 550 rwhp n/a; my big blocks never made that much, and although they were not race engines they were pretty stout.

Jody

[[email protected]]

i say the LSX. right now i have a 2000 z28 with a 231/237 tsp grind cam with about everysingle bolt on you can put on it and i put down 387.9 hp and 362 tq N/A and with some more time with hptuners or ls1edit i really think we can hit the 400 mark no problem. if i could do it all over id mimic my setup but with a lunati rot assembly and a set of afr 205's with a 300shot

[Blown353]

I'll echo what others have said-- if I was starting from scratch, I'd go LSX. Big time factory engineering development dollars spent on that engine that no aftermarket manufacturer can match, very efficient cathedral port heads, etc. With the adapter plates for the motor mounts being a dime a dozen, modifed oil pans and headers available from several outfits to drop them into early chassis, it makes the decision a pretty easy one IMO.

Even though I would favor the LSX, if you were going to go aluminum SBC, I'd lean more towards a Dart block. I've seen the World Products / Motown offering, and while a nice piece it's not up to par compared to the Dart pieces when it comes to casting and machining quality. It's not a bad block, but you can do better for just a little bit more.

Troy

[Musclerodz]

If I started over I would start with a 6.0 iron Gen III block with a Lunati stroker kit for a budget based 427. If I could afford it I would get the C5R 427 aluminum block. I would also set it mild so I could bolt on a TT setup at a later date. Any direction you go though, I think LSX will be king here.

Mike

[c.schulz]

Hey Bryan.How ya been?? Sec gen again for ya?Love it.
The LS motors are a great piece for the design.Stroking one of these things takes it to the limits of what GM originaly designed them for.A good friend had alot of troubles with his LS motors that where built by a well know company.Two motors at the total sum of $50,000 out the window.(Law suit pending)
For a long term lasting motor go with something has been designed to take the abuse.Look at the great aftermarket blocks that are out there now.Incredibly stout.
Put some numbers down on paper and youll probably find that it will work out cheaper for the traditional small block. It will be cheaper to build and will last longer with the ability to modify as time goes on.
Chris

[carbuff]

Hi guys,

Thanx for the thoughts. I do lean towards the LSx motors as well, given the performance they are making! Here is my thought process, tell me what you think.

You can get an LS1/T56 combo from a 98 - 02 F-Body for anywhere from $3500 - 4500 complete. If you deduct about $1200 for the T56, you are starting with about $2700 - 3300 for the motor.

Now, that gets you the wiring, sensors, accessories, injectors, manifold, and all the parts you need.

Here come the upgrades:

402ci LS2 shortblock - $3995
Ported LS6 heads - $1200 - 2000, depending on what I decide to run
Cam - $300 - 450

So, worst case, I could put this thing together for about $10k, and it would be a kick butt setup!

Contrast that with the $$$ I had in my last motor... I never exactly calculated it, but it was in the $20k - 25k range... :eek:

So, the LSx seems to be a bargain option! Certainly not cheap, but not that bad all things considered. Show me a Gen I SBC that comes from a reputable shop that makes 500-ish rwhp for $10k that is fuel injected (wiring and computer included).

Anyway, there are some hassles to overcome with the LSx setup, and you don't have the variety in accessories available... But you just can't deny that performance!!! :)

I expect I will probably go that route. If $$$ becomes an issue during this project, I can always just throw the LS1 in for a while until I collect up all that I really want for the 402 type setup. :)

Glad to know that I'm not alone in my thoughts here...... It's always good to get second opinions though! :thumbsup:

As for my plans, this car will be tubbed, aftermarket front subframe again, and I have some plans for a few new things that I didn't get to do on the first car. I want a better interior, possibly a different color (although I swear I still have never seen a color I liked more than that red I used!!!), and I'm still debating wheels... I'll keep you all posted of course!

Bryan

[carbuff]

Jody,

Here are the details on that 550+ rwhp 402ci LS2...

Rapid Motorsports 402ci Results (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277037)

Enjoy!
Bryan

[camcojb]

Jody,

Here are the details on that 550+ rwhp 402ci LS2...

Rapid Motorsports 402ci Results (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277037)

Enjoy!
Bryan


Thanks Bryan. That thing is crazy. I couldn't get to 500 rwhp with my 468, but it did make over 600 rwtq.

Jody

[Payton King]

You have seen my pics so you know my vote is for an LSX. My motor is a stock internal LS1 with a set of stage II 5.3 heads, 230-230 .598 lift on a 110lsa, 90mm fast intake and tb and it should make 450 rwhp...I will let you know soon. I have seen that post on the 402 that made 550.

If you really want to get trickey wait and get the dry sumped LS7 out of the new Z06.

[Steve1968LS2]

I vote for the LSx..

Why?

An LSx engine will probley end up cheaper than a SBC motor with an aftermarket EFI unit. A LSx motor is also quite a bit lighter than a SBC motor and that equals free performance.

We can also talk about milage.. my nearly 400rwhp 2000 SS Camaro got almost 27mpg on the freeway.

[jannes_z-28]

And the LSx do all this with very low compression too.

BUT there is no sound like a Big Block http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/images/smilies/biggrin1.gif

Jan