Paddle shifter article in the new STREET RODDER mag.

[Musclerodz]

Interesting article. I did not know another company was making paddle shifters. Raytek I think it was? Anyways, their's also allowed it to work in conjuction with non-computer trannys by using that new push button shifter. Article covered both units and they seemed impressed by both units. I think that is something you need to hit on as well Steve.

Mike

[hectore3]

I read the article also. This could be an option for us with non-computer transmissions. And hope for us who don't want to make the jump to a 4L80E or the new 6L80E

[Steve Chryssos]

Don't do it. The transmission computer is the heart of the system--not the paddle shifter. The paddle shifter is just an input device like a keyboard or mouse. Electronically actuated shift solenoids and line pressure solenoids are the only way to ensure quick, predictable and repeatable shifts. With an electronic trans, shifts will always happen in .5 sec or less. With a pre-electronic trans, you will tap a paddle and the shift may or may not occur in a timely manner depending on the mechanical, non-adjustable shift programming in the transmission. It could take up to 3 seconds. It looks like this:
Pre-Electronic Trans:
1) Tap paddle to send signal
2) Move mechanical arm on side of the trans
3) Move fluid thru valve body circuitry and rely on vacuum, counterweights, springs and other doo-kickeys (aka slushbox)
What happens if that mechanical arm jams or fails? Connecting an electronic paddle shifter to a pre-electronic trans is like trying to plug a Logitech mouse into a typewriter.

Electronic Trans:
1) Tap paddle to send signal
2) Electronically hit solenoids based on 100% electronic parameters such as TPS, rpm and vehicle speed sensors.
That's it. The computer processes data in milliseconds. There are no mechanical parts to jam or fail.

Furthermore, the computer software has crucial reliability and safety functions that prevent shifting under the wrong circumstances. One example: When coming to a full stop, the TCI controller will automatically reset the trans to 1st gear. This way you don't burn your trans up by leaving in high gear. I sincerely hope that the other thing has some sort of downshift prevention. Otherwise, you could downshift too far at 100mph. Very bad. Without some sort of TPS/VSS/RPM input, I don't see how that design can prevent that from happening. Blown engines, blown transmission and dead customers are bad for business.
There are countless reasons why the OE's apply manumatic technology to electronic transmissions ONLY. Likewise, we (Twist Machine, LLC) absolutely, positively refuse to build a linear actuator motored paddle shifter. It's ineffective and potentially dangerous.

It may be tempting -- but don't do it.

[Musclerodz]

I just thought it was interesting to note, whether the theory was valid or not. They also have a unit for elctronic trannies and noticed on American Hot Rod last night they had installed one in the 56 Chevy vert they finished. I don't know anything about them and would rather buy from someone I know and trust, like Steve.

Mike

[Steve Chryssos]

Thank you. I may sound biased or defensive, but believe me, that article and the American Hot Rod episode has sent my web traffic skywards and already yielded sales. Competitor or not, I'm pleased as punch. These things tend to expand the overall marketplace. And when you google "Paddle Shifter", you find Twist Machine. I have no reason to be defensive. I just want to educate others. I suspect that the follower will soon discover what we and the OE market already know:

Paddle Shifter + Sensors + Solenoids + Software = Manumatic

[trapin]

Steve...

So are you saying that what they're running in that '56 (paddle shifter with push button trans) is dangerous? I was surprised to see that because I thought not long ago you had told me that combining a push button shifter with a paddle shifter was a dangerous combination. Boyd's taking an awful big risk if that's the case. I would think he would be liable if anything happened. Unless the guy signed a release or something.

[BRIAN]

They have had that push button deal out for years. I would guess it is for manually selecting gears on a non computer tranny and not for accurate instant up and down shifts. Do not see how it would be any more dangerous than playing with any automatic shifter??

I beleive that the Retrotek is owned by a guy named Ken from Long Island. I had talked to him years ago about his EFI conversions. He was really good guy and knew his stuff.


A little competition usually brings the better product into the spotlight or at least the better product for the application. Good luck to both of you guys. Great idea!!!!!

[race-rodz]

even with the paddle shifter, you still need to "select" gears, the paddle shifter is only for up/down shifts in forward gears. so the push button deal is there for the manual selcetion of gear, instead of a typical shifter.

and im sure the trans in the 56 on american hot rod was an elec trans, and i think the paddle shifter was for manu-matic action.

[Steve Chryssos]

even with the paddle shifter, you still need to "select" gears, the paddle shifter is only for up/down shifts in forward gears. so the push button deal is there for the manual selcetion of gear, instead of a typical shifter.
and im sure the trans in the 56 on american hot rod was an elec trans, and i think the paddle shifter was for manu-matic action.

Correct. NOTHING wrong with using a linear actuator to move the detent from Park to Reverse to Drive. So the pushbutton deal is fine for basic gear selection. Now performance up and down shifting is another thing altogether. Here, rapidly moving between forward gears is best left to a fully electronic solution. Plugging a paddle shifter into a linear actuator on a pre-electronic trans will yield the exact same sloppy, untimely response as grabbing a mechanical floor or column shifter. But with a paddle shifter, the driver EXPECTS gear changes to happen quickly. Electrons are the way to go.

And unless there is some sort of downshift prevention, paddle shifting into 1st at high rpm could lead to over-revving engine or trans failure which in turn could lead to locked wheels--regardless of the shift mechanism. With a paddle shifter, making that mistake is just that much easier. Electronic trans controllers won't let that happen. I stated that I hope that semi-electronic solution has some sort of downshift prevention since the system is not connected to electronic engine and VSS (wheel speed) sensors.

[Steve Chryssos]

I beleive that the Retrotek is owned by a guy named Ken from Long Island. I had talked to him years ago about his EFI conversions. He was really good guy and knew his stuff.


A little competition usually brings the better product into the spotlight or at least the better product for the application. Good luck to both of you guys. Great idea!!!!!

Yup. I don't know his last name, but Ken called me about a year ago looking to buy our electronics.

[race-rodz]

not to jack the tread...but how is my quick release shrifter doin?

[MODO Innovations]

...would rather buy from someone I know and trust, like Steve. I agree with Mike, although I wouldn't know Steve if he ran into me, I do know him from this site as well as pt.com.
When you read a bunch of posts from people on this and other sites you begin to get their personalilty. From what I have read I wouldn't have a problem buying his product (if I only had an electronic tranny). He always seem to know his stuff. Steve, I hope you sell a bunch of them. :thumbsup:

[Steve Chryssos]

not to jack the tread...but how is my quick release shrifter doin?

Haven't touched it Chris. Just busy. But I can jump on it if you're ready to sort out your steering column. How's the truck coming along?


Thanks for the kind words Shannon. It's still fledgling but starting to grow. This paddle shifter stuff is hard to explain. Same with electronic transmissions. Any transmission can make a hard 1-2 WOT upshift. But for every other set of circumstances, the computer really shines. I've "tuned" a bunch of these things on the phone with customers as far away as Denmark. But I was lucky enough to tune Bill Howell's car in person. After just a few keystrokes on the laptop, Bill really came to appreciate his decision to go electronic. The smile on his face was priceless. I really need to video tape that process.

[trapin]

Steve...is it possible (in the future) you might offer a complete transmission conversion package much like "Classic Chevy 5 Speed" and "ATS" do with their 5 speed and 6 speed manual packages? You know like, the Tranny, Shrifter, Converter, All wiring and electronics, etc. As it is I wouldn't know where to start looking for a 4L80E or 6L80E. Who sells them?

[race-rodz]

Haven't touched it Chris. Just busy. But I can jump on it if you're ready to sort out your steering column. How's the truck coming along?.

actually im still busy with the motor, tryin to get it sorted out and dynoed so i can get tranny built. just tryin to get some off the small things done between my driver project and the "job thing"

i really dont need it....so yet....just keep lookin at it :rofl:

[4mm]

Steve...is it possible (in the future) you might offer a complete transmission conversion package much like "Classic Chevy 5 Speed" and "ATS" do with their 5 speed and 6 speed manual packages? You know like, the Tranny, Shrifter, Converter, All wiring and electronics, etc. As it is I wouldn't know where to start looking for a 4L80E or 6L80E. Who sells them?
I was thinking the same thing, it's hard to sort it all out. I am sure you get plenty of calls asking you where to start.

[Steve Chryssos]

Yup. We can supply complete TCI Transmission/Converter/Computer packages. But there are two more important elements to your kit list: Calibration & Shipping Weight. So for that reason, it's best for you to pick from our tiny but growing list of recommended transmission builders/shops that I will recommend for complete packages. Every region of the country will have a dealer so that you can either minimize shipping cost or bring your car in for installation / calibration. Calibration is a piece of pie, but some folks just want to have it done.

Tony,
Speed Inc. is currently doing an install and Bowler Transmissions has done numerous electronic transmission hop ups including the Poison Dart project. Both are in Illinois. If you have a sharp trans shop in Michigan, get me their number and I will contact them

I'm also gonna test a multi-disc lock up converter after Power Tour. This will allow the powertrain to be locked up under almost all parameters. If I blindfolded you, lied to you and took you for a spin, you would believe that you are driving a DSG or sequential manual. :omg:

[Bill Howell]

I can not talk the technical jargon about all this, so let me try to put it in layman's terms.
First, trying to make a paddle shifter work with say a 700R4 would be like trying to hook up a F.A.S.T. computer to metering block on your Holley. The two just do not mix.

Second, I have both a 700R4(in my malibu) and a 4L80 in the goat. The trade off you have in a 700R4 is to get the 1st-2nd shift right, you give up the 3rd-4th shift at the right time. There is no fine tuning the shifts, just a compromise at best.
Now, on the 4L80, Steve has fine tuned each shift point, for each gear change. He absolutely had the laptop on, and adjusted the shift points while we were riding down the road. It was the real time adjustments that made the final outcome perfect. There is no guessing to it, just adjust, with the laptop, until you have things exactly like you like them. Until you have done this, there is no way to explain the experiance. Honestly, the paddle shifter is icing on the cake, but the ability to fine tune your shift is just unreal. Not only can you adjust it to shift at a certain speed, you also adjust the firmness it shifts. Then, if you change your mind, no problem, just retune.

Hopefully, this helps :thumbsup:

BTW, if this sounds like a shameless plug for twist machines, it is!
Since I know Steve, trust his judgement, along with the fact that HE is a sponsor here, there is no way I would buy from the other folks, regardless of price. I feel that if there is a problem down the road, Steve can help me thru it, since he invented the technology in the first place. :thumbsup:

[Stuart Adams]

I agree Bill. Fine tuning the shift point on the road is to me the HUGE advantage and often overlooked, people always focus on the shifter but the computer fine tuning is where its at for me. And to have Steve do it for U, you lucky goat!!

[Steve Chryssos]

Thanks guys.

Stuart, you know I'm always looking for a good excuse to eat at the Javelina Cantina.

[Stuart Adams]

Steve, you coming this way?

[Bill Howell]

Thanks guys.

Stuart, you know I'm always looking for a good excuse to eat at the Javelina Cantina.


Damn it Steve, not the secret is out. That's right, promise the guy a good meal, and he is there.... :rofl:

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve, you coming this way?

I wish. All work, no play :(