67 Camaro - Project Resale Red

[n77nxc]

Project: Resale Red

Car: 1967 Camaro

Engine: LS1

Trans: 4L60E

This is my first classic build, and I've already learned a ton during the purchase phase. The build phase will be an experience and I can't wait. I've always liked the 1st gen Camaros and knew I wanted one with a modern powerplant under the hood. After looking at many cars, I settled on this 67.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8550/8708749248_d9e79ff271_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8560/8713169911_d397aebd77_b.jpg

It seemed to be a good fit based on the description given. Run and drive, LS1 powered with brand new driver quality paint, no patch panels, no rust, and solid body. A good friend of mine, that is very familiar with classics, told me to look past the drivetrain and focus on the body when looking for my project car. After lengthy discussions with the seller and my buddy, I had a good feel for the condition and what had been done to the car. Unfortunately the car was in California and I’m in Texas, so I was purely going off what the seller was telling me and showing me in pics. Luckily the seller had a local reference, and I contacted them for feedback. Everything came back clean, and I proceeded with the deal.

For sale thread: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=41233

I was looking forward to getting my hands on the car and ordered most of the parts the seller said it needed, mainly interior items, prior to it arriving. I was told the car needed roughly two weekends worth of work to get it on the road. I was stoked the car was so close to being road worthy.

I contracted All American Trucking and Transport to ship the car and they did an amazing job. It took 3 days from Northern California to Houston. The car arrived without any damage. The driver attempted to back the car off the truck and reverse decided to take a dump. Talk about bad timing. Luckily he had a winch and we carefully winched it off the truck. All the forward gears worked so I was able to drive it to the house. I inspected the trans fluid and it didn’t even read on the dipstick.

I was happy the car showed up in one piece and started looking things over to setup a game plan.

First off, the transmission, with a non-functional reverse, pretty much advanced my plan to switch it to manual. A T-56 will be on order to replace the 4L60E.

I noticed some questionable areas in the body and had my buddy stop by to take a look. He started off in the trunk and quickly pointed out both rear fenders had been replaced. The welds looked like, in his words, “bird sh*t”. The rear speaker panel wasn’t original to the car either. He pointed out rot along the base of the rear glass filled with bondo (bondo worms gave that away). The roof and floors look good for the most part with the exception of some pitting. Rot was also visible underneath the newly installed trunk seal along the gutter. There were numerous other areas with half a$$ body work but nothing that can’t get sorted out.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5344/8991966492_c848e39d05_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8270/8990771561_0c9ac6c10c_b.jpg

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http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2873/8991979070_831961b80b_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/8991978158_23ab774547_b.jpg

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http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8412/8991975006_d1ac7234dc_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/8990783187_552ec51456_b.jpg


The paint is far from driver’s quality. I’m confident I could have sprayed it better in my garage. It looks like it was painted and cleared next to a car being sanded.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3751/8990780677_cdca128a02_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/8991976750_972f162797_b.jpg

I was really starting to dig the red, even though it wasn’t my first choice, but now I have a great excuse to paint the car. I’m thinking a dark gunmetal or black.

The LS1 runs great and is definitely the highlight of the car. I’m surprised it runs based on the wiring that was done. I’ve already identified 4 electrical connections using wire nuts!!! Someone started to wire up the fans and failed miserably. After a quick search on the forum, I found the correct wiring diagram. I wired those up over the weekend and they are fully functional now.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/8991969258_90a312a7d0_b.jpg

Near term goal for the car is to sort it out mechanically and get it running correctly. Suspension, interior, wheels, and tires will follow.
I’m hesitant to dive into the body at this point because I know there are some goodies lurking underneath that paint.

I’ll keep this thread updated as I go and look forward to input from fellow members.

[DETON8R]

Looks like a project, like a lot of "drivers" that get bought out there.

Good choice to swap the Auto with a manual.

Keep posting pics!!!

[Royalworks]

Sight unseen usually never turns out as hoped.

[turnhard]

Where in Houston are you located

[n77nxc]

Sight unseen usually never turns out as hoped.

Yep, that is the number 1 lesson I learned. This is the first car out of roughly 35 cars I've owned that I purchased sight unseen. Unfortunately, its the one car out of all of those I should have never even considered purchasing sight unseen. Live and learn!

[n77nxc]

Where in Houston are you located

I'm in Richmond.

[Rick D]

Man that sucks, the thing is that some people think that the work done on your car is good, or a the very least don't know any difference. Not saying that was the case but I've had people come to me in the past and say oh I just need someone to paint my car I've done all the prep work and its ready for paint. Most times I just tell them sorry I'm not what your looking for to do a paint job for you! It's way easier then crushing them by showing them everything that they did wrong and then they get very pissed off at me.

Now if they paid someone todo that same work for them I have know problem letting them know what was not done correctly in a nice way.

And then there are those that just flat out want to rip you off and those kind of people just suck :weld: :weld: :getout:

At this point take what you've learned and move forward. This is why I didn't want to buy my new car unless I know the person or I can go get it myself or at the very least have someone close by take a look for me.

[n77nxc]

Man that sucks, the thing is that some people think that the work done on your car is good, or a the very least don't know any difference. Not saying that was the case but I've had people come to me in the past and say oh I just need someone to paint my car I've done all the prep work and its ready for paint. Most times I just tell them sorry I'm not what your looking for to do a paint job for you! It's way easier then crushing them by showing them everything that they did wrong and then they get very pissed off at me.

Now if they paid someone todo that same work for them I have know problem letting them know what was not done correctly in a nice way.

And then there are those that just flat out want to rip you off and those kind of people just suck :weld: :weld: :getout:

At this point take what you've learned and move forward. This is why I didn't want to buy my new car unless I know the person or I can go get it myself or at the very least have someone close by take a look for me.

Thanks Rick!

[CornHusker4Life]

I agree. Not my definition of driver quality either... You never want to see RUST on a "newly" painted car. Sucks but:gitrdun:

[Greg from Aus]

Oh how this brings back memories, chin up. Good luck with the build.

[scooter67]

That's alright J. It will be fun. Exspensive. But fun. :)

I'm just ad you can share in my misery now. Haha

[waynieZ]

We've all had our day of reckoning ! :confused59: IT will be a lot of fun.

[randy]

he mentioned rust free. Rust free my ass. Remind me to never buy anything off of him


my car was in better shape than yours and it took alot and i mean alot of metal to make it rust free. Lots of $$$$$$$$$

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/photo1.jpg


Honestly set a goal for yourself and reality of knowing to get it right it cost money. I hope you didnt pay his asking price

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/3029104a.jpg

i can honestly say my car is now completely rust free.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0327.jpg

[n77nxc]

I agree. Not my definition of driver quality either... You never want to see RUST on a "newly" painted car. Sucks but:gitrdun:

Will do!

Oh how this brings back memories, chin up. Good luck with the build.

Thanks!

That's alright J. It will be fun. Exspensive. But fun. :)

I'm just ad you can share in my misery now. Haha

Misery is right! I will try to catch up to your build but have a feeling you will be driving yours way before mine is even close to being on the road.

We've all had our day of reckoning ! :confused59: IT will be a lot of fun.

It will be and I'm looking forward to it. I was in and out of cars way too much before and I'm hoping this one sticks around for quite awhile, considering the amount of work I will be putting into it.

he mentioned rust free. Rust free my ass. Remind me to never buy anything off of him

my car was in better shape than yours and it took alot and i mean alot of metal to make it rust free. Lots of $$$$$$$$$

Honestly set a goal for yourself and reality of knowing to get it right it cost money. I hope you didnt pay his asking price

i can honestly say my car is now completely rust free.



First off, your car is awesome! I've been following your build and really like what you are doing to the car.

I did pay full asking price for the car. The seller refunded $700 for the trans so I ended up paying $17,800 plus shipping ($1100) and taxes ($1200).

[turnhard]

I'm right down the road from you in pearland. If you need any metal work done let me know. Kevin

[dhutton]

I did pay full asking price for the car. The seller refunded $700 for the trans so I ended up paying $17,800 plus shipping ($1100) and taxes ($1200).

I'd be leaving some feedback for the seller here:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/forumdisplay.php4?f=71

[geberhard]

Jason, awesome on the build of the car, and will keep an eye on how she comes up, I think you will make her a great ride.

I definitely do not want to murk your build thread, do not want this to become a pissing match and in all fairness there are a few things you are leaving off which I want to point out. We spent several hours talking about the car, and I was very straight forward on the car being a project and future driver. You even commented on the price of the car being cheap for what it had. I never mentioned about the car being show quality, and that was not the intent as the car was being built. You were aware that the car was a project and not finalized.

You were aware of the radiator fan harness and other wiring needing to be finalized. You passed on the option of coming over here to look at the car in person as originally agreed, and instead you chose to have your friend who is local come here who spent time inspecting the car. When he came to inspect the car, I also pointed out other blems with the car and also asked him to take pics to send you such as the spoiler. We also drove the car around the neighborhood, and there were no issues whatsoever with starting the car, maneuvering, driving, braking, etc. After you mentioned the issue with the transmission, which I definitely felt horrible about, I sent you $700 towards a rebuild, along with several links on where to find 4l60e's rebuilt with HD upgrades in your area for under that price between $400-700 what I thought was fair, again, even though the car had no issues whatsoever engaging in reverse or maneuvering during his inspection up to the point the car was loaded and shipped.

The transport company also had the car in this position when taking off; the driver mentioned he would move the car into the front of the truck for the trip. I am not aware of how long the car stayed in this position (see video below, that is how the driver took off), and if any fluid could have leaked out. Again, at no point I was ever aware of any issues with the transmission, and NEVER experienced any issues when driving the car or maneuvering around.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/IMG_2737_zps4bde6d7f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/IMG_2738_zpsfc6b2c6c.jpg

Edit added video:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/geberhard/media/IMG_2742_zps4cffc02a.mp4.html

Position the car arrived:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/IMG_2951_zps8c6e1212.jpg

I believe your expectations were not aligned with what the car was, and definitely wish we both had met in person and that you had seen the car here as originally discussed, definitely not a good experience for neither of us at this point, and we BOTH learned something here. I do not think I wronged you in any way, I am honest and straight forward. I believe the car price is definitely fair for what was represented and it is as you can compare with several cars and projects on the forum. People here have started amazing builds with cars in far worst shape and did incredible jobs and turned into amazing rides. I hope you can build her in a great car and be happy with it.

Again, I do not want to murk your build thread, and anyone here can contact me directly with any questions.

Gui

[n77nxc]

Gui,

First off, we did spend tons of time on the phone. I also remember asking you over and over again if the car had rust and your response every time was "no". The only time you mentioned rust was the light surface rust on the floor pans and interior door panels. We all know you can spend a small fortune repairing rust, and that is why I wanted to make absolutely sure this car was "rust free" as you had clearly stated in the title of your FS ad as well as confirmed to me over the phone.

In regards to the price and my comments, you are absolutely correct...the price was very fair (in fact more than fair)...if only the car had been what you made it out to be. Its not even close to what you represented. A show car? Come on...really? Do you honestly think I expected a show car for $18,500? What I did expect was a car that was rust free with a driver quality paint job. As evidenced, I didn't get that either.

As far as Mike is concerned. He is a friend of a friend that helped me out by taking time to meet you and lay eyes on the car. The intent of him looking at the car was not to completely inspect the car but rather to meet you and make sure the car ran. I didn't have him bother checking for rust because you assured me there was none. Plain and simple we are both at fault...you misrepresented the condition of the car, and I made the mistake of believing you. Pictures don't lie and you simply tried to throw everyone under the bus, except yourself, for the items I started to uncover once I had the car. None of the items I've shown were pointed out to Mike.

Since you want to give the audience all the facts. Why didn't you take me up on my offer to return the car with me paying return shipping and throwing 3K on top just to get out of the deal? Not very confident in what you were selling? I totally understand now why you didn't take the deal.

I applaud you in trying to salvage your reputation but its shot as far as I'm concerned. You definitely had me fooled Gui. It won't happen again.

Jason

[68FBODY]

I understand this is all a possible he said/she said type transaction. However, geberhard did say "It is a very nice and solid car, rust free, very straight" in the original for sale ad. I hope everything pans out for both parties and they can reach an agreement, but judging how the car was described in the original ad and how the car was received, they are complete polar opposites. At minimum it would be nice for geberhard to pay for the sheetmetal to replace the issues.

[cencalc6]

I understand this is all a possible he said/she said type transaction. However, geberhard did say "It is a very nice and solid car, rust free, very straight" in the original for sale ad. I hope everything pans out for both parties and they can reach an agreement, but judging how the car was described in the original ad and how the car was received, they are complete polar opposites. At minimum it would be nice for geberhard to pay for the sheetmetal to replace the issues.

I agree 100%.... I dealt with this situation before with my current car. The seller made it right by funding me with new sheet metal that needed replaced....Even though its cost me hours of labor. I've Dealt with Jason plenty of times on different forums and he's been an excellent Honest person to deal with....I hope something comes good with this situation and a great looking car gets built.

[Shark Racer]

I've dealt with Gui on numerous deals, as have many other people.

I also spoke with Gui concerning whether or not to take the $3,000 offer.

I told him that that kind of offer made me very nervous - what we do know is that the transmission was working when it left, and the car has gone to Texas and now the guy is saying the transmission is busted and he's willing to send it back along with a partial refund of $$. Best case, Jason is being honest and Gui is out the $$ to build a transmission. Worst case, Jason and/or the shipper really messed the car up and $3k is cheap compared to what Gui actually has to do to get the car sold again.

Now, I'm not accusing Jason of anything, I'm merely stating that there are a lot of unknowns for Gui and in his position that kind of offer made me nervous.

As for the "rust-free" comment, I agree with the general consensus that that was a mistake for Gui to state as such.

The last time I sold a car to someone out of state (actually, out of country) he paid for the car up front without an inspection. I kept the cash on-hand in case he decided he didn't like the car for whatever reason; thankfully he came down and looked at it himself to get ready to drive it home. 2 years later he's still quite happy with it.

After witnessing Gui and Jason's experience, I definitely wouldn't want to be the buyer or seller in this situation. I know that there are people out there who pull stuff like this but I know Gui is not one of them. I'm hoping that there's an amicable resolution.

I also think it's quite unfair to immediately post a thread that's basically a backstab at Gui when he's already proven that he was willing to work with Jason on the deal (the transmission offer).

My $0.02. (not the first post on this forum I really wanted to make. lol)

[n77nxc]

I've dealt with Gui on numerous deals, as have many other people.

I also spoke with Gui concerning whether or not to take the $3,000 offer.

I told him that that kind of offer made me very nervous - what we do know is that the transmission was working when it left, and the car has gone to Texas and now the guy is saying the transmission is busted and he's willing to send it back along with a partial refund of $$. Best case, Jason is being honest and Gui is out the $$ to build a transmission. Worst case, Jason and/or the shipper really messed the car up and $3k is cheap compared to what Gui actually has to do to get the car sold again.

Now, I'm not accusing Jason of anything, I'm merely stating that there are a lot of unknowns for Gui and in his position that kind of offer made me nervous.

As for the "rust-free" comment, I agree with the general consensus that that was a mistake for Gui to state as such.

The last time I sold a car to someone out of state (actually, out of country) he paid for the car up front without an inspection. I kept the cash on-hand in case he decided he didn't like the car for whatever reason; thankfully he came down and looked at it himself to get ready to drive it home. 2 years later he's still quite happy with it.

After witnessing Gui and Jason's experience, I definitely wouldn't want to be the buyer or seller in this situation. I know that there are people out there who pull stuff like this but I know Gui is not one of them. I'm hoping that there's an amicable resolution.

I also think it's quite unfair to immediately post a thread that's basically a backstab at Gui when he's already proven that he was willing to work with Jason on the deal (the transmission offer).

My $0.02. (not the first post on this forum I really wanted to make. lol)

I appreciate your post and you just reaffirmed that Gui messed up by saying the car was "rust free" when in reality it wasn't. I'm glad even his friends recognize his mistake.

Its time for Gui to make this right, and I fully expect him to.

I won't even comment on your unfair statement. :rofl:

Gui and myself will take this offline and get it sorted out. I've already emailed him a few options to settle this, and I'm hopeful this will be taken care of.

Jason

[Ron in SoCal]

First and most importantly, I like Gui and enjoy his participation on this forum.

While I applaud you (Shark Racer) for standing up for your friend I do not agree with your take and first post on this forum.

This:

As for the "rust-free" comment, I agree with the general consensus that that was a mistake for Gui to state as such.

And this:

I know that there are people out there who pull stuff like this but I know Gui is not one of them. I'm hoping that there's an amicable resolution.

...are a contradiction. Clearly the car was not as advertised - rust free is not subjective - and Gui was the one who posted the ad.

More:

Now, I'm not accusing Jason of anything,

and:

I also think it's quite unfair to immediately post a thread that's basically a backstab at Gui

are also contradictions in my mind.

OTOH, Jason's intro post pretty much took the high road, said in so many words, "oh well, I'll just move on and fix it."

Finally:
I appreciate your post and you just reaffirmed that Gui messed up by saying the car was "rust free" when in reality it wasn't. I'm glad even his friends recognize his mistake.

Its time for Gui to make this right, and I fully expect him to.

I won't even comment on your unfair statement. :rofl:

Gui and myself will take this offline and get it sorted out. I've already emailed him a few options to settle this, and I'm hopeful this will be taken care of.

Jason

Glad to see you guys working it out. I hope this has an amicable resolution and we can move on. :cheers:

[Rick D]

Just my .02, when I sold my car on eBay a few weeks ago I knew it could be look at differently by any one looking to bid or buy the car. I knew with almost certainty that whomever would buy my car would come to pick it up. I had way to may parts to try to ship it. The guy that bought my car came from 12 hours away to pick it up. I made sure he every picture that I have of my car to make sure that when he came to get it he wasn't going to say wow that's not what I thought it was.

I had every part laid out in the driveway so he could see everything. He looked at everything I had and told me wow I know you said you had the whole car but WOW you have the whole car! He was very happy when he left with his new purchase and even texted me when he was home to say he made it with no issues and thank me again.

My point is when you are selling anything you need to be as forthcoming as you can be, even the smallest thing to you may turn out to be a big something to them.

Was/is this car rust free no! Was everything disclosed about the car apparently not. As for the other stuff it should stay between Gui and Jason.

My new car which I'm going to get this weekend, I have seen enough pictures to know that I'm going to pick up what I was told it is. Plus I know that Mark is not looking to take anyone on anything he's going to sell.

Ok sorry so long winded! Hope you guys can come to an agreement.

[Spiffav8]

I appreciate your post and you just reaffirmed that Gui messed up by saying the car was "rust free" when in reality it wasn't. I'm glad even his friends recognize his mistake.

Its time for Gui to make this right, and I fully expect him to.

I won't even comment on your unfair statement. :rofl:

Gui and myself will take this offline and get it sorted out. I've already emailed him a few options to settle this, and I'm hopeful this will be taken care of.

Jason

Glad to see you guys are working this out.

Looks like we're done here.