Automatic Vs Manual

[Code510]

I've been wondering this for awhile. Is it better to have an automatic or manual transmission? I think the majority of us all have 5 and 6 speed transmissions, myself included.

However if you have a really built auto, with paddle shifters where you could manually shift the car, wouldn't this be the better route? Just thinking it would free up your hands a bit, and hopefully lead to faster shifts.

What do you guys think?

[214Chevy]

As almost with anything else when it comes to our hobby, I think it is a preference. I have had them all in my Chevelle in this order TH400, 700R4, TKO 600 and now the T56 Magnum (undriven). At first, I was really hesitant to convert to manual in my Chevelle with it being a larger car than, let's say a Camaro or Mustang. People were telling me "Don't do it." I was starting to believe it and thinking I wouldn't have fun with the car. But, when I finally went to the TKO 600, that was the most fun I'd ever had driving the car and it was behind a 650 hp 509 BBC. So, I would consider that a built engine. Dropping down to 4th or 5th gear, shifiting gears on the highway, taking off at a red light in 1st gear after riding 1st all the way out before shifting to 2nd is a fun thing to do to me. So, I don't think I will ever have another automatic in my car. I have the 6L80E for my 68 C10 and I'm strongly debating puttin in a T56 Magnum in my truck. I say manual all day, everyday.

[Sieg]

For my transportation tools - automatic. (much easier to text and drive and do other things not associated with safe driving habits :D)

For special purpose vehicle - manual 6sp close ratio

A sequential 6sp box would be fun too!

Regarding the texting and driving, my kids first cars will be manual just for that reason.

[intocarss]

I've had both and a manual is just more fun

Less HP loss too

[chr2002ca]

I agree with Sieg. For a daily driver or a 'cruiser', I think the auto is the way to go. If it's a weekend/fun car, I think the manual is more fun(which is why I converted mine from auto to manual). If the aftermarket paddle shift kits for the autos can quicken their shift response times to those we're now seeing in these exotic cars, that might become more of a player though. You can't beat the launch of an auto. Everybody's got a different opinion though so it's all up to you.

[Code510]

I agree with you all. My truck is an Auto....as is my daily driver. An 04 Honda Civic. Its a real beast. :sarcasm_smiley:

But the Chevelle was a 4 speed when I got it, and I upgraded to a 6 speed. Driving around, it is a ton more fun. I do love it. I'm just thinking about racing purposes, especially if it was paddle shift and quick shift.

Pretty sure Jody had the auto with paddle shift...hopefully he chimes in.

[Streetking]

Manual!!

[Track Junky]

Manual!!

No Brainer!!

[MX145]

Paddle shift is definitely cool but there's nothing like the feel of a manual. It's in your hands and all on you. Seems more connected with the horses under the hood.

[Vegas69]

I personally think someone could really kick some ass in the pro touring scene with a factory type paddle shift.

[GregWeld]

I've tracked two paddle shift cars -- they SUCK!


My R8 and the S63 are both paddle shifted -- one automatic and one is a S Tronic....


Give me a real manual tranny any day for track events and just good fun rowing the gears.

[Che70velle]

Manual for me. My daily is a 94' Z71 and its a manual. All my toys have been manuals. I've only ever owned one auto for me. Now my wife drives an auto. It's a Nissan, with the cvt which is cool because she can go clutch less manual. She's a manual girl at heart also.

[Code510]

I've tracked two paddle shift cars -- they SUCK!


My R8 and the S63 are both paddle shifted -- one automatic and one is a S Tronic....


Give me a real manual tranny any day for track events and just good fun rowing the gears.

Why did they suck? Just sloppy shifts or funky to shift while steering?

[GregWeld]

Why did they suck? Just sloppy shifts or funky to shift while steering?



The R8 shifter moves WITH the wheel so you've cranked the wheel over now you can't find the damn paddles! By the time you reach for shifter in the console -- you missed it...


I'm just not a fan....


Shifts are crisp - that's function of the trans not the paddles.....

[Vegas69]

I guess those guys in F1 are morons. :mock:

[GregWeld]

I guess those guys in F1 are morons. :mock:



Well if you think about it --- their steering wheels don't need to turn more than about half a revolution... Try doing that in a street car on a track.

You can hardly compare F1 and the crap we drive.


:smiley_smack:

[Che70velle]

The steering wheel on an f1 car costs more than most people's projects on here. Have you guys ever seen what all is actually on, or in the wheel? The technology is mind boggling!

[FETorino]

is this even a question :confused59:

[Sieg]

A paddle shifted automatic is a far cry from the clutched sequential gearbox used in F1.........20-40 millisecond shift times!
http://www.f1technical.net/articles/66

:G-Dub:

[Flash68]

27 to 2 as of now. Who are the 2? :hitaxeonthehead:

[frankv11]

Nothing more fun than real 6 speed.
I've been running my 04 silverado w t56 and 4.88 gears for about 8 years and its fun everyday.

[Vegas69]

I was talking about using something high end that is more instantaneous. The driver tends to be a limiting factor around here and setting these cars up to heel toe with stock controls isn't much of an option. Certainly not saying I would build one, but I do think it could be great in the right hands with experience. Greg, how many times have you been on the track with a stick car?

[Stuart Adams]

The AMG car I had ran great but the paddling the tranny was a joke. Delayed and sluggish. Automatic type cars should stay that. Shifting with paddles is a cool concept but it does not replace the interaction of the body/ car interaction of grabbing gears. A 69 camaro had to be manual but my Duremax 7 speed auto is magnifico.

[GregWeld]

Greg, how many times have you been on the track with a stick car?



Counting all the driving schools -- and my own car --- that would be in the 100's of laps...

Mazda open wheel cars
ZO6's -- C4's and C5's and C6's
Camaros

All sticks...

More control both up and down shifts... Not as unsettling to the car as the STREET style trannys in the S63 and the R8... while they rev match -- it's still abrupt... and the part I dislike the most is trying to find the f'n paddles!

[TMIProducts]

Counting all the driving schools -- and my own car --- that would be in the 100's of laps...

Mazda open wheel cars
ZO6's -- C4's and C5's and C6's
Camaros

All sticks...

More control both up and down shifts... Not as unsettling to the car as the STREET style trannys in the S63 and the R8... while they rev match -- it's still abrupt... and the part I dislike the most is trying to find the f'n paddles!

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you talked about trying to find the shifter. That makes perfect sense. With a manual, your hand is always on the shifter, or at least you know where the shifter is at. In the F1 setting it works because lock to lock is only 180 degrees.

I drove a rental car a few months back, a new Ford Focus with the paddle shifters. Naturally I was testing it all out. That's what got my brain thinking a bit.

[214Chevy]

27 to 2 as of now. Who are the 2? :hitaxeonthehead:

Manual numbers keep growing...

To the OP, Code510, do you have enough votes for the manual to sway your decision yet? I think the "manual" wins hands down. :idea:

[GregWeld]

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you talked about trying to find the shifter. That makes perfect sense. With a manual, your hand is always on the shifter, or at least you know where the shifter is at. In the F1 setting it works because lock to lock is only 180 degrees.

I drove a rental car a few months back, a new Ford Focus with the paddle shifters. Naturally I was testing it all out. That's what got my brain thinking a bit.




Egg sack lee.....


If the wheel only turned enough that you never had to take your hands off the wheel -- it would be sweet... but in our street cars -- we're turning A LOT more than that... and there's only two ways to do this -- mount the paddles to the wheel -- and then they're out of position --- or mount to the column -- and then they're out of position.

With the shifter in the console -- and I'm talking paddle shift cars that also have the "automatic" style shifter in the console --- half the cars I've driven you push forward to downshift -- the other half you pull back to downshift... that just confuses the shift out of me! For me - I want to pull back to upshift -- and push to up downshift... but there doesn't seem to be any standard set. So I jump out of one of our cars - and into the other and I'm all messed up!

A stick comes so natural....


Sadly -- Our Audi R8 is the R Tronic trans -- not the new 2014 S Tronic dual clutch. It may get traded in for the new version for no other reason than that.
But even then I've read reviews that complain about slow speed downshifts being "harsh"....

The track at Inde Motorsports where I laid on the R8 had a couple real nasty 1st or 2nd gear corners --- and that's what happened to me -- you'd bang down a shift and BANG is exactly what you got -- damn near jolting the car into oversteer. Upshifts are EASY -- you'd be hard pressed to shift better when you're laying all over it... but downshifting is the "trouble" to me. Downshifting -- you're already busy... yarding off speed getting set for the turn in -- hammering shifts and double clutching and rev matching... looking around the corner for the exit etc -- paying attention to any slippage in the front grip or catching the rear.... I don't need the tranny giving me added things to hunt for.

[intocarss]

To many variables with an automatic transmission and torque converter to make it work as good as a manual trans on a road course. Also an auto trans creates a ton of heat which brings up a whole lot of other issues to make it live..

[Rick D]

One word MANUAL!!!

[Vegas69]

Egg sack lee.....


If the wheel only turned enough that you never had to take your hands off the wheel -- it would be sweet... but in our street cars -- we're turning A LOT more than that... and there's only two ways to do this -- mount the paddles to the wheel -- and then they're out of position --- or mount to the column -- and then they're out of position.

With the shifter in the console -- and I'm talking paddle shift cars that also have the "automatic" style shifter in the console --- half the cars I've driven you push forward to downshift -- the other half you pull back to downshift... that just confuses the shift out of me! For me - I want to pull back to upshift -- and push to up downshift... but there doesn't seem to be any standard set. So I jump out of one of our cars - and into the other and I'm all messed up!

A stick comes so natural....


Sadly -- Our Audi R8 is the R Tronic trans -- not the new 2014 S Tronic dual clutch. It may get traded in for the new version for no other reason than that.
But even then I've read reviews that complain about slow speed downshifts being "harsh"....

The track at Inde Motorsports where I laid on the R8 had a couple real nasty 1st or 2nd gear corners --- and that's what happened to me -- you'd bang down a shift and BANG is exactly what you got -- damn near jolting the car into oversteer. Upshifts are EASY -- you'd be hard pressed to shift better when you're laying all over it... but downshifting is the "trouble" to me. Downshifting -- you're already busy... yarding off speed getting set for the turn in -- hammering shifts and double clutching and rev matching... looking around the corner for the exit etc -- paying attention to any slippage in the front grip or catching the rear.... I don't need the tranny giving me added things to hunt for.

My S4 has the s tronic dual clutchless and I always thought it was pretty cool. Never raced it.... For autocross, left foot braking, and down shifting, I still think it could be lethal. For real technical road courses and the average driver, I feel the same. But what do I know.... :action-smiley-027:

[intocarss]

One word MANUAL!!!LABOR???

[BANKO]

I enjoy driving my car so much more now that I put in a T56. With modern hydraulic clutch actuation, it drives like a new car. I love the feel of shifting and being able to control the RPMs. There is nothing better than rowing through the gears!

[Rick D]

LABOR???

Nice Jer just saw this smart azz :smiley_smack: good catch! :action-smiley-027:

[protour73]

For my transportation tools - automatic. (much easier to text and drive and do other things not associated with safe driving habits :D)

For special purpose vehicle - manual 6sp close ratio

A sequential 6sp box would be fun too!

Regarding the texting and driving, my kids first cars will be manual just for that reason.OK Sieg, that definitely humored me!!


......and my choice: MANUAL

[Rick D]

OK Sieg, that definitely humored me!!


......and my choice: MANUAL

Shouldn't you be in the garage finishing up that car of your??:poke:

[Zspoiler]

I prefer a automatic for a daily driver .(I drive truck for a living) Especially with our wonderful traffic these days.And a manual for my "toys" .You have more control. Well that`s me.

[Steve Chryssos]

It's always fun to watch these threads. The two transmission types get compared without looking at the actual requirements of the owner. For example: Pro-Touring cars are multi-purpose, right? But the conversation always short circuits directly to what works better on a road course. The loudest voice is usually the guy that doesn't understand the basic racecraft concept of opposite lock. But anyway, back to the example, multi-purpose vehicles, and the OP....

Do you like drag racing? The automatic will likely excel -- usually over more powerful 3 pedal cars. Shorter shift times, no power interrupt, and torque multiplication are awesome.

Will you be autocrossing? The automatic car will be just as good if not better. Why? Not a lot of shifting on most courses.

Will your car be used a daily driver? The playing field gets more level if you plan to drive your car frequently. I was in LA a coupla weeks back for a business trip and had a Nismo Z press car with three pedals. Great car, but miserable under the circumstances.

Do you have a lot of power? Many of our customers have big HP engines such as twin turbo applications and prefer to stay away from clutches in the interest of reliability and tractability.

Will you be doing a lot of track days? The automatic solution is not as effective as 3 pedals on a road course.

Are you entering the Formula One Championship with your Pro-Touring Car? The VERY FIRST THING we tell potential customers is that we only offer the best automatic transmission experience of your life -- not a substitute for a manual. Then we tell them that the paddle shifter is the least important part of the equation. Custom tuned billet torque converters are critical. Custom electronic calibration tunes are awesome. We work with specific transmission builders to minimize shift time, improve shift feel, and handle high rpm shifts and heat. Factory transmissions are calibrated for grandma. The long shift times are there to avoid scaring the average consumer.

A paddle shifter is just a fancy looking override switch for those circumstances when the driver is smarter than the computer. Unfortunately, most "expert" drivers use the switch at the wrong time, then blame the switch.

At the end of day, pick an automatic if you want and expect an automatic. just be sure to look at ALL of the parameters above -- not just road course functionality.

I love em both, but that wasn't an option on the poll.
/Steve

[GregWeld]

Excellent post Steve!


Spot on.

[Steve Chryssos]

Thanks!