BBC gurus, oil in the radiator...

[Ketzer]

It's a fresh build with less than a dozen miles. No water in the pan but it's definately pushing oil into the cooling system somewhere and showing up in the radiator.
There is not an oil cooler in the rad.
I'm guessing one of the usual suspects, head gasket, galley plug didn't seal, or worst case a hairline crack... :bang:

Any dianostic tips before I tear into it? Thoughts on running some dye through to help highlight the culprit?



Jeff-

[Vegas69]

Was it a new radiator? Did you flush it out prior to installation?

[Ron in SoCal]

Only a dozen miles, no foaming?

[Ketzer]

Was it a new radiator? Did you flush it out prior to installation?
It is a new radiator. I didn't do the build, bought it already done so I'm not sure on the flush? I did drain it (as much as you can without pulling the t-stat) and ran some scalding hot water through the rad until it was clear and re-filled it fresh. Ran it for about 20 mins and quite a bit of oil showed back up... but oil doesn't seem to be down on the dipstick enough to account for all the oil ?? (It was still warm and hadnt completely all drained back to pan but was still very close to full mark)

Only a dozen miles, no foaming?
Only a wee little bit foamy on top when running, not stout beer foamy....


I was only able to look at a few things last night before I ran out of time and won't be able to touch it again until Monday. It's tough to put the tools down and walk away when this is happening. Now my brain is going crazy and I can't put my hands on it....:bang:

Jeff-

[RBuhr69]

I would definetly be calling the builder Monday morning and asking if everything was checked for cracks....If they say yes, then I would remove thermostat, bolt thermostat housing back up and find a longer lower radiator hose and have the water pull from a 5 gallon bucket (0bviosuly filling bucket as it runs), leave the hose off the outlet on the radiator and just let it flush all the way through. This way you can flush the entire system and then bolt it all back up and see if any oil returns.

Just a thought..

Otherwise, rut row scooby....Pulling motor or at minimum take top end apart.

[GregWeld]

Is this an automatic car with a trans cooler incorporated into the radiator? Are you certain it's oil? New GM motors come with a sealant "tablet" installed in the motor so the first time you run 'em that tablet dissolves...


Is there any WHITE "smoke" when you fire it up?? That indicates moisture in the cylinders (steam).

I'd run a leak down test on it --- if it's a block issue or gasket issue a leak down would push bubbles into the radiator... leave the radiator cap off and if the gauge is leaking down - then start looking into the radiator for tell-tale signs etc.

If you don't have a leak down gauge set -- some places rent them... Or let me know if you can't find one and I'll send you mine.

The other thing you can do and this would be the fastest cheapest easiest --- run a pressure test on the cooling system -- if it doesn't hold pressure you know you have an issue right away. That would be what I'd do first.

I have a Test kit made by Stant --- if you can't find one locally --- or find someone old skool enough around you with one I could send that as well.

[Ketzer]

I would definetly be calling the builder Monday morning and asking if everything was checked for cracks....If they say yes, then I would remove thermostat, bolt thermostat housing back up and find a longer lower radiator hose and have the water pull from a 5 gallon bucket (0bviosuly filling bucket as it runs), leave the hose off the outlet on the radiator and just let it flush all the way through. This way you can flush the entire system and then bolt it all back up and see if any oil returns.

Just a thought..

Otherwise, rut row scooby....Pulling motor or at minimum take top end apart.

I bought the whole car already running/driving, the seller didn't build the engine so getting back to the builder for questions might be difficult. Buying hot rods is always a gamble. I'm pretty sure the seller had no idea it had a problem.
My number one plan for tomorrow is to go back and do a proper flush, clean, de-grease of the cooling system just like you suggested. I hoped the half-azzed drain I did yesterday would show me something, it showed me how to waste time and fresh anti-freeze without telling me squat.
I double-checked this morning before I left, after everything cooled down, the dipstick still shows full on oil. It does not seem to be losing any noticable amount of oil and yet a paper towel dipped into the rad looks like this...

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL267/1824562/20464769/406153664.jpg

I'm also going to try and score some dye for the oil to be sure it is coming in fresh and not residual.

I really appreciate any comments or tips.

Jeff-

[Ketzer]

Is this an automatic car with a trans cooler incorporated into the radiator? Are you certain it's oil? New GM motors come with a sealant "tablet" installed in the motor so the first time you run 'em that tablet dissolves...


Is there any WHITE "smoke" when you fire it up?? That indicates moisture in the cylinders (steam).

I'd run a leak down test on it --- if it's a block issue or gasket issue a leak down would push bubbles into the radiator... leave the radiator cap off and if the gauge is leaking down - then start looking into the radiator for tell-tale signs etc.

If you don't have a leak down gauge set -- some places rent them... Or let me know if you can't find one and I'll send you mine.

The other thing you can do and this would be the fastest cheapest easiest --- run a pressure test on the cooling system -- if it doesn't hold pressure you know you have an issue right away. That would be what I'd do first.

I have a Test kit made by Stant --- if you can't find one locally --- or find someone old skool enough around you with one I could send that as well.

Thanks GW.
It's a four speed. Only thing in the rad is engine cooling, no trans or power steering or oil cooler.

No steam, only a couple minutes of condensation (not oily or sweet smelling) and then clears up.

Pressure testing the cooling system is also on the list for tomorrow. I have one of the testers with the little hand pump... if only I can find it.:bitchslap:
If that doesn't reveal anything and I'm still seeing oil, definately doing a leakdown on each cylinder.

I'm going to fiddle around and drag my feet on this. Explore every option and deny the worst. The whole car is so fresh that the thought of pulling heads or engine makes me cringe...

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL267/1824562/20464769/406153926.jpg
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL267/1824562/20464769/406153927.jpg

[Vegas69]

It's easy for a machinist to get oil in the water jackets during machining and assembly. I agree with the pressure test on the cooling system and a full system flush if no problem is found.

[Ron in SoCal]

Had this exact problem before. Another quick test - check intake bolts torque spec.

That does seem like a lot of oil, Ketz. Not good IMO...:(

[intocarss]

They may have not got all the honing oil out of the block

[Ketzer]

It's easy for a machinist to get oil in the water jackets during machining and assembly. I agree with the pressure test on the cooling system and a full system flush if no problem is found.

They may have not got all the honing oil out of the block

I'm hoping it's something silly like this, oil leftover from assembly or machining. Especially since the pan level doesn't seem to be changing/dropping relative to whats in the coolant... But as Ron says "seems like a lot".


Had this exact problem before. Another quick test - check intake bolts torque spec.

That does seem like a lot of oil, Ketz. Not good IMO...:(

Intake gaskets would be an easy fix (first thing I hoped for) but I can't get my mind around a scenario where there is oil under pressure near a coolant passage at the intake. More likely at the head gasket where everyone says they do crazy stuff when they fail.
Seems like a lot of oil to me also but I have no point of reference, is it a pint, is it a quart, is it combining with the antifreeze and looking like a lot?...:willy:



I appreciate everyone's input! I am pacing like a cat until tomorrow when I can put these great tips to the test. Normally I don't feel trapped at work but today...:fire:


Jeff-


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

My guess is you'll find nothing wrong...


If you think about it - the cooling system is under pressure... and would/should push WATER into the oil - if oil is coming into it (the radiator).... as soon as you'd shut the engine off - the pressure of the radiator would push water into the motor. If you dip the stick and don't have a milkshake.. then my guess is it's just residual oil. Maybe somebody told the owner that the water pump lasts longer when you add a half a quart of oil to the water. Who knows. (I'm being silly).


You don't have lots of white smoke (it would be noticeable) showing evidence of water in the combustion process.... You don't have water in the oil or on the dip stick. The motor runs well.... If the cap is off the radiator and you don't have bubbles puking coolant out of it... If you do a coolant pressure check and it holds..... Then I say -- fire it off and go light up the tires!


:headspin: :thumbsup:

[Ketzer]

Ding ding ding! GW is the winner!

After much testing and fiddling today, (leakdown, radiator pressure, bolt torque, pcv, yadda yadda) I found absolutely nothing. I completely flushed and degreased the cooling system and flushed again. Got 99% of it out and did a fresh refill. Drove around for a half hour in the neighborhood and checked everything. It now looks normal.
I have no idea about the oil, how, why, who knows? I have been given great advice and tips (and hand holding) and I am grateful!
Thanks everybody!


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

Good to hear!


Glad you dodged a bullet! Looks like a nice little car!

[Ron in SoCal]

So glad Jeff! Now go out and enjoy that car :rules: