Tig 102

[GregWeld]

Who's the first one to tell me TWO things you see that's wrong with this TIG welding.... I'm not spilling the beans on what member this was (not me!) but in discussing it with her.... (HA HA!) I realized that maybe more than one or two of you new TIG "welders" aren't familiar with a couple of the "don't do's"





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-20.jpg

[Sieg]

Subscribed! :sieg:

[Rhino]

Too much amperage and dirty tungsten?

[GregWeld]

Too much amperage and dirty tungsten?



<< BUZZER >> Wrong!



Sorry.... Keep trying! You get more than one guess....

[Ketzer]

First off, I thought you said magnets were baaad... Uhmmkay (SouthPark reference). Secondly, it looks like the same thing I'm doing wrong so I'm also subscribed...:headscratch:


Jeff-

[Greg from Aus]

Metal not clean

[GregWeld]

Well Jeff has HALF of it right! DING DING DING DING


NO TIG around Magnets!!! Makes the arc wander all over the place.....



I don't think anyone will guess the other problem ----- the welder ran out of Argon....Newbs -- remember to change out your bottles when you get down in that "less than" 500 psi and that won't happen.You know these are like propane BBQ's -- you'll run out in the middle of cooking on Sunday afternoon...



And since Tonnes mentioned CLEANING here's some pics of unclean and cleaned! I copied these off Miller website.


UNCLEAN Steel



http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file.jpg





Same metal cleaned properly!





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-3.jpg




GEE!!! SEE ANY DIFFERENCE?? :D :D






UNCLEAN Chrome Moly







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-1.jpg








CLEAN Chrome Moly!!








http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-2.jpg

[GregWeld]

Here's something else that I'm personally guilty of... the "if a little is good more must be better syndrome!"




Welders commonly—and incorrectly—assume that a higher gas flow/pressure provides greater protection. In fact, excessive gas flow creates turbulence and swirling currents that pull in unwanted airborne contaminants (and it can cause arc wandering). Generally, err on the lower side of recommended shielding gas rates to ensure proper shielding coverage without turbulence.

[GregWeld]

Too much amperage and dirty tungsten?




I'm laughing to myself at this comment... just to poke a sharp stick in an eye ---- but YEAH.... probably that too! :bang: :lol:

[Rhino]

That's why I work IT and just "glue" stuff together at home :lol:

It is quite amazing the difference a little contamination makes. Growing up with a mig in hand it was a bit of a shock to pick up a tig the first time. They seem just a *bit* less tolerant.

[GregWeld]

That's why I work IT and just "glue" stuff together at home :lol:

It is quite amazing the difference a little contamination makes. Growing up with a mig in hand it was a bit of a shock to pick up a tig the first time. They seem just a *bit* less tolerant.

I like that! Less tolerant!! Yep that just about sums it up.....

How about ZERO tolerance!

Of course you don't have to do all the prep.... as long as you're willing to have poopie looking welding. :lol:

[youthpastor]

Ya I checked in too late I knew the answer, some local philanthropist type told me about the magnet deal when he stopped by the shop on his way to some far away destination :G-Dub:

[GregWeld]

Ya I checked in too late I knew the answer, some local philanthropist type told me about the magnet deal when he stopped by the shop on his way to some far away destination :G-Dub:



HAHAHAHAHA! Okay -- we'll give you an honorary 2nd place for good memory retention!:trophy-1302:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thats strange, I use magnets to hold aluminum panels all the time and I never have problems.

Speaking of gas flow, I switched to a gas lense and my AL welds are much nicer and easier to weld now. I think it has to do with less gas flow and tungsten sticks farther out. Gas is turned way down= tanks last longer.

[Amituk]

For any of you beginners,

Jason's (from theGmr) ebook is an awesome guide for $4

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BFXKMPO/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

Certainly helped me!

[GregWeld]

Thats strange, I use magnets to hold aluminum panels all the time and I never have problems.

Speaking of gas flow, I switched to a gas lense and my AL welds are much nicer and easier to weld now. I think it has to do with less gas flow and tungsten sticks farther out. Gas is turned way down= tanks last longer.



Silly wabbit! Everybody knows it's fine to use magnets when TIG welding aluminum, bronze, or brass.



I switched to a gas lens -- the difference is well worth the few bucks in cups etc.


In actual fact this photo is a GAS SAVER lens vs a standard cup -- but it still shows the difference in the gas flow.



http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-4.jpg

[Ketzer]

Wow! I haven't switched my tig machine on in six months, but I'm gettin' me some of those lenses! That's pretty impressive.



Jeff-

[Rhino]

Out of curiosity what is inducing the turbulence in flow when using the cup? Do lenses have an additional internal structure?

[fleetus macmullitz]

Nice thurredd GW, aka 'Good Welder'. http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/imagesqtbnANd9GcSXQfG8epxuC0dwIgX4a_zpsdd81d3f2.jp g

[GregWeld]

Out of curiosity what is inducing the turbulence in flow when using the cup? Do lenses have an additional internal structure?

Gas lens uses a very fine screen etc to smooth out the flow.... and then - of course - none of your current cups will fit it. Typically also the SHAPE of the cups are different.

A couple advantages are smoother gas flow -- and less flow so less wasted gas. Not very important for a home shop - but a shop that welds all day every day will save some money on gas.... as well as they just flat work better.

BUT --- always a big BUTT in there -- it's like golf... if ya can't hit the ball - new clubs aren't suddenly going to have you shooting par. :smiley_smack:

[GregWeld]

For any of you beginners,

Jason's (from theGmr) ebook is an awesome guide for $4

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BFXKMPO/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

Certainly helped me!



I was hoping that a few of the better guys would chime in here.... I'm certainly no expert!

[GregWeld]

Some very good info right here.....






HY30i_t1Da8













AffmRC_lt1Y

[Greg from Aus]

Hi Guy's looking for some help. I haven't picked up a tig in years and haven't welded much stainless. Below are a couple of pictures. I have tried a few settings an I ended up at 30 amp and no filler rod, at that setting I don't have any real undercut, but I'm concerned about the lack of penetration. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Greg

38613

38614

[GregWeld]

Hi Guy's looking for some help. I haven't picked up a tig in years and haven't welded much stainless. Below are a couple of pictures. I have tried a few settings an I ended up at 30 amp and no filler rod, at that setting I don't have any real undercut, but I'm concerned about the lack of penetration. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Greg

38613

38614




Give us some more information --- like the gauge of the metal...

[Greg from Aus]

Greg, It's about 13 gauge. Also I'm using a 1.6 mm tungsten and a gas lense.

Greg

[GregWeld]

Greg, It's about 13 gauge. Also I'm using a 1.6 mm tungsten and a gas lense.

Greg



13 gauge tube is about .095" which is 1/16th of an inch we'll call it....


Miller weld calc calls for 50 to 80 amps for TIG on Stainless butt weld.... using a 1.6mm tungsten and same size filler... Gas flow should be about 11 CFH


So you're close.... Personally I like to choose a bit on the high side of the range -- because I can back off the amperage with the foot pedal -- or hand control and just use whatever it takes to get the job done.

[Greg from Aus]

When I was at 45 amp, I was getting undercut, which isn't ideal either. :headscratch: :headscratch: :bang: :bang:

Greg

[Sieg]

For optimum results on tubing isn't it advised to back-purge the tube with argon to reduce sugaring?

rOycjfEfMmI

[GregWeld]

For optimum results on tubing isn't it advised to back-purge the tube with argon to reduce sugaring?

rOycjfEfMmI



Yes -- on HEADERS etc.... but of course not if you're building a roll cage. So "it depends"....

On headers etc you want smooth flow which means keeping the inside of the tubes smooth. Sugaring also leads to cracking and corrosion. Purging also gives better penetration.

[GregWeld]

Notice the WIRELESS foot control??? That is why I bought one at SEMA a couple years ago...

We're working around various "stuff" --- we're not usually sitting at a bench welding all day. It's just one LESS cable to mess with. I love mine!

[Sieg]

Since magnets are taboo........

I'd be very interested to see what your "must have" and frequent use clamps and positioning tools are.

[GregWeld]

Since magnets are taboo........

I'd be very interested to see what your "must have" and frequent use clamps and positioning tools are.




ANYTHING THAT WORKS.... weights... clamps.... anything and everything that you can use to hold it long enough to get a couple tacks laid on.... and then you can reposition - or re-clamp the larger piece.

Sometimes I've welded on pieces so that I can clamp a larger "piece" -- then grind them off...

You really just need to be very flexible and very imaginative!


I also keep a nice piece of copper -- about a 1' long - 2" wide - 1/2" thick... it's not only good for a "weight" it also acts like a good ground conductor from the metal table to the piece.


WHAT DO THE REST OF YOU DO????

[Rhino]

... it's not only good for a "weight" it also acts like a good ground conductor from the metal table to the piece.


And a potential heat sink.

[HEEP]

Alright, I searched for the TIG 101 thread and couldn't find it. So tell me what is best to clean metal with before welding. Thanks,

HEEP

[Sieg]

Alright, I searched for the TIG 101 thread and couldn't find it. So tell me what is best to clean metal with before welding. Thanks,

HEEP
My understanding of proper cleaning protocol is: Wipe down with a dry cloth, then BEFORE sanding with Scotchbrite, etc. clean with denatured alcohol or NON-CHLORINATED brake cleaner.

It's been my experience that you cannot get the metal too clean. This applies to the backside or inside of tubing also as it appears contaminates on the backside manage to get wicked into the puddle.

The OP will certainly :bitchslap: me if I'm wrong. :D

[GregWeld]

Acetone works well too... but the NON chlorinated brake clean is cheap and hand in a spray can... Just be certain it is NON chlorinated! There's a sticky in the welding thread about this.

When we say CLEAN --- it's means free of mill scale... so in other words if it's mild steel -- use a 3M disc etc to get down to bare metal. I used to do this on aluminum as well - but now just clean it with non chlorinated brake cleaner and with the A/C of the TIG it cleans the oxide off as you go. Doesn't hurt to hit it with the 3M disc or similar method. But if you're going to polish the piece then you don't want that deep scratch.

STAINLESS STEEL --- I hit with a Fine SS wire brush (like a toothbrush sized version) to clean the oxide off of it - all sides to be welded.... as well as degrease. If it's a bigger job - then I use a new 3M disc... because it's faster and easier. You just need to clean off the edge back even a half inch to an inch. Just don't forget to clean both sides of all pieces - and the edges too if they're not fresh cuts.

I don't know -- anyone else have anything to add????? Any particular methods??

[HEEP]

Thanks, That makes alot of sense. I need to make sure that step does not get missed. I get in a hurry sometimes.

HEEP

[Revved]

I fought contamination issues quite a big learning how to TIG so now I'm pretty particular about cleaning.

I got a small squeeze bottle I keep with Acetone for cleaning anything I TIG. I buy a gallon can and refill the bottle as needed.
I've got separate SS toothbrush sized wire brushes for aluminum and steel. For aluminum I've got scotchbrite pads that I will douse in acetone and give the weld areas a quick scrub down- front and back.
For steel I will give the weld area a quick zip with a 50grit roloc pad to remove any rust, scale, paint, etc.
I bought a HTP Tungsten sharpener for under $250- and it is just a huge time saver. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TIG-Welder-Tungsten-Electrode-Sharpener-Grinder-Tig-/140451757157
I started storing my TIG welder away from the workbench because this was where I would do dirty work and since I was still randomly fighting contamination I figured it couldn't hurt.

The final thing I figured out that has cured 99% of my contamination issues was switching to a smaller cone on the hand piece. The welder came with a 7 and I switched to a 6 that focused the sheilding gas more. I must have been leaving the tungsten out too far and was loosing the sheilding gas. I'm still not a rockstar but the results have markedly more consistent.

[GregWeld]

Good info! Thanks for sharing!

[Sieg]

:ttiwop:

[Sieg]

Since somebody brought it up...........

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-7N794gh/0/M/G0010123-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-DjQNQ2R/0/M/G0010124-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-rVMcGwg/0/M/G0010125-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-k8QmHk2/0/M/G0010126-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-NchN8xp/0/M/G0010127-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-2zHr83r/0/M/G0010128-M.jpg

Taken with the GoPro in time lapse mode, image every 10 seconds.

[GregWeld]

A face only a mother could love.....

[Sieg]

The results.......
Butt weld, no filler rod, 1/16" mild steel, 1/16 tungsten, max amps set at 80, gas at 13 CFH.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-grh7kkT/0/M/IMAG3624-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-gFSXDXv/0/M/IMAG3625-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-WQ8mLw3/0/M/IMAG3626-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-vNDpwbW/0/M/IMAG3627-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-bfsWb8H/0/M/IMAG3628-M.jpg

I'm a total rookie at welding, don't hesitate to criticize, that's how I learn and my skin is relatively thick. :sieg:

[Sieg]

A face only a mother could love.....I know two dogs that love it! :action-smiley-027:

[GregWeld]

Someone needs to call Hair Club for men???.... Okay so what! I'm old!







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/BuildingSSGasTank005.jpg








That reflection IS the Mirror polished stainless steel......







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0956.jpg









http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0957.jpg









http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0958.jpg

[Sieg]

Someone needs to call Hair Club for men???.... Okay so what! I'm old!
Solar panel for a Love Machine. :D

PS - That's expensive scrap you practice with.........keep trying, you'll get the hang of it. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Solar panel for a Love Machine. :D

PS - That's expensive scrap you practice with.........keep trying, you'll get the hang of it. :thumbsup:



#1 -- SS is EASY to weld....


#2 -- OUTSIDE corners are easy to weld...


#3 -- Try doing that and not warping it... look at that big flat expanse and you won't see much warpage.... NOW THAT'S TALENT!!! :welder: :trophy-1302:

[Revved]

/\/\/\/\/\
Very Nice Work Guys!!


Good info! Thanks for sharing!

Half of it I learned from reading your replies to my grumbling.... Just sayin' !!

Lateral-G has been awsome for feedback on working through my learning curve on TIG. I'm glad to see so much positive feedback and experience being shared by the more experienced members on this site for guys wanting to expand their skills. Even though I'm a "professional," I've been expanding into areas that I've never personally done. I've always been at shops with guys that handled specialties like TIG when i needed it. Now that I'm solo I either learn it myself or am stuck subleting it which can be :bang:

Anyway... my ramble is to say thanks to everyone. I'll post up pics of some current TIG work from today... still not perfect but waaaayyy better.

[Sieg]

Revved,

So when you first thought about TIG did this thought cross your mind?
"I mean really, how difficult can it be"

:D

[Sieg]

My handicap package arrived today.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-265Pwxf/0/L/IMAG3630-L.jpg

:unibrow:

[Revved]

Revved,

So when you first thought about TIG did this thought cross your mind?
"I mean really, how difficult can it be"

:D

I had heard stories but I knew it was a necessity. Looking back it shouldn't have been that difficult but trying to learn it on my own without someone in person saying "do this... don't do that" definately made the learning curve much steeper than it needed to be. My biggest frustration was that one minute everything would lay nice and then I would pick up the torch 20 minutes later and I would lay out a pile of crap. Not being able to figure out what was causing the contamination was mind bending.

I was pretty good with a MIG but with all of the intercooler tubing I was doing I knew I had to learn TIG. Fortunately the intercooler tubing on most of my projects get the black texture treatment which gave me plenty of time for what I knew would eventually come... and did. The owner of the Chevelle I'm finishing up right now wanted all the intercooler tubing polished. Fortunately I finally got things pretty well figured out by the time I did the tubing on that one! (pic is end of fab- before everything got polished)

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/IMAG0500_zpsd3013ec9.jpg

Here are some pics from this afternoon. Closing off the cowl vents on the bottom of a 67 Mustang cowl. My helper got a bit overzealous when I told him to clean away the ECoat around the opening but I'm not complaining because his round patch panel was perfect. I didn't even use filler for most of the TIG welding.

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/General%20Junk/DSCN9539_zps5de7c9d6.jpg

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/General%20Junk/DSCN9538_zpsd0a88803.jpg

[SuperB70]

Now I want to get in and give my .02

its ok to weld ( fusion) with tig without using any filler but you have to understand that by doing that the metal get poor and thats why you can get those little craters and holes. More better material, more it will happen.

Like it doesnt matter much with normal sheet metal but does matter a lot with aluminium ,stainless or titanium.

By using even mig wire now and then when you weld, you can see that it will restore the metal and it will produse cleaner weld. This is something that you have to practice to get good at it.

For purge you can do as has been told here before or you also can use back purge paste witch is also really good thing to have. or if you can, you can also use a ceramic back support, witch you have get out after welding. They are commonly used in industrial cos they are reuseadle and can be used in small area inside large tanks and so on. And they are way cheapper than gaas flow.

It has been sad about cleaness but also it important to weld with correct size and color tungsten and amp level.

If you have a good a machine, you can paly with pulse, so you can set the welding amp, time and weld/rest ratio.

I'll give an exsample:

I made an overflow tank to Atlas Copco diesel power twin screw air compressor from 0.8mm/0.03" stainless and didnt need to purge it at all. I just search the right settings from my machine amps and pulses wice and it welded it nicelly. It did melt them through but pulce upamps stopped just before it get to sugared. Weld it in inch here, another there all way around and it game out nice. Have to get the pictures out of my shop camera.

[Revved]

its ok to weld ( fusion) with tig without using any filler but you have to understand that by doing that the metal get poor and thats why you can get those little craters and holes. More better material, more it will happen.

Like it doesnt matter much with normal sheet metal but does matter a lot with aluminium ,stainless or titanium.


Definitly agree that the weld is not as strong. When I was playing around with aluminum tubing scraps figuring this out I had some of the welds I had fusion welded fracture when I was "destruction testing" them to see how they strong they were.

Another thing to consider is that when you fusion weld is that the weld sinks in. If you are trying to grind the weld flush after the fact you will have a valley from the weld. Especially when TIG'ing aluminum intercooler tubing that you are going to flush for paint it is better to fill above the level of the material.

[GriffithMetal]

Another thing to add to this cool discussion. If you are getting porosity in your weld and everything is clean and the gas is flowing, you may be boiling the weld puddle. If you are welding too slowly you can cause a "boiled" weld puddle.
I typically weld with ER70S-6 filler rod for my mild steel welds. I buy 36" lengths of 1/16" and .045" filler rod. 1/16" is for thicker metals 16 gauge and up to 1/8" thick. I use the .045" for 18 gauge steel. Sometimes when I weld thinner metals I will weld with .035". All ER70S-6. ER70S-6 has more de-oxidizers in it than the ER70S-2. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

If you are welding too slowly you can cause a "boiled" weld puddle.:sieg: Guilty!

SuperB70 and GriffithMetal - Thanks for the experienced insight. :thumbsup:

[Revved]

Another thing to add to this cool discussion. If you are getting porosity in your weld and everything is clean and the gas is flowing, you may be boiling the weld puddle. If you are welding too slowly you can cause a "boiled" weld puddle.
I typically weld with ER70S-6 filler rod for my mild steel welds. I buy 36" lengths of 1/16" and .045" filler rod. 1/16" is for thicker metals 16 gauge and up to 1/8" thick. I use the .045" for 18 gauge steel. Sometimes when I weld thinner metals I will weld with .035". All ER70S-6. ER70S-6 has more de-oxidizers in it than the ER70S-2. :thumbsup:

Funny that you mention this as I've just started having this problem.... and interestingly enough I'm welding faster than I used to. Only thing that I've changed is that with steel I've noticed it puddles better when I'm pushing the weld rather than pulling the weld like I do with aluminum so I thought that might have something to do with it.

I'm using 3/16 red stripe (can't remember if that is ceriated or thoriated) tungsten with 1/16 rod as most of what I'm doing is lighter gauge stuff. I did try 1/8" tungsten when I was experienting with the intercooler tubing but with the .065 aluminum tubing I was melting down the tungsten just trying to puddle the weld.

[GregWeld]

Funny that you mention this as I've just started having this problem.... and interestingly enough I'm welding faster than I used to. Only thing that I've changed is that with steel I've noticed it puddles better when I'm pushing the weld rather than pulling the weld like I do with aluminum so I thought that might have something to do with it.

I'm using 3/16 red stripe (can't remember if that is ceriated or thoriated) tungsten with 1/16 rod as most of what I'm doing is lighter gauge stuff. I did try 1/8" tungsten when I was experienting with the intercooler tubing but with the .065 aluminum tubing I was melting down the tungsten just trying to puddle the weld.




WTF?!?!?!



TIG WELDING IS ALWAYS A PUSH..... MIG you can push or pull.

[GriffithMetal]

Funny that you mention this as I've just started having this problem.... and interestingly enough I'm welding faster than I used to. Only thing that I've changed is that with steel I've noticed it puddles better when I'm pushing the weld rather than pulling the weld like I do with aluminum so I thought that might have something to do with it.

I'm using 3/16 red stripe (can't remember if that is ceriated or thoriated) tungsten with 1/16 rod as most of what I'm doing is lighter gauge stuff. I did try 1/8" tungsten when I was experienting with the intercooler tubing but with the .065 aluminum tubing I was melting down the tungsten just trying to puddle the weld.

Greg is right, always push the TIG torch. What's the torch angle? What thickness material are you welding? Thick and thin metals have different welding parameters when TIG welding. Was the 1/8" tungsten green stripe "pure"? You can google the amperage rating for different thickness tungsten and type. Are you welding the aluminum on AC or DC+? Are you using a transformer style TIG or an Inverter style?
I can weld .063" 3003 aluminum with 3/32 red stripe 2% Thoriated without a problem. I use 1/8" green stripe pure tungsten when welding something critical in thin aluminum. I am using a 110amp setting and probably welding at 80 amps or so with a transformer based TIG.
TIG welding is complex at times.

[Revved]

WTF?!?!?!



TIG WELDING IS ALWAYS A PUSH..... MIG you can push or pull.

Be nice Greg or your SS exhaust system will crack from welding Karma....

I'll have to try it... probably picked up bad habits teaching myself. Pulling works pretty well for me with the aluminum now that I've got the contamination issue figured out :D

Greg is right, always push the TIG torch. What's the torch angle? What thickness material are you welding? Thick and thin metals have different welding parameters when TIG welding. Was the 1/8" tungsten green stripe "pure"? You can google the amperage rating for different thickness tungsten and type. Are you welding the aluminum on AC or DC+? Are you using a transformer style TIG or an Inverter style?
I can weld .063" 3003 aluminum with 3/32 red stripe 2% Thoriated without a problem. I use 1/8" green stripe pure tungsten when welding something critical in thin aluminum. I am using a 110amp setting and probably welding at 80 amps or so with a transformer based TIG.
TIG welding is complex at times.

Torch angle around 45*ish. I use Vibrant aluminum tubing to fabricate my intercooler tubing and that is .065. It welds nicely with the 3/32 red stripe and 1/16 rod now that I figured out my contamination problem. My machine is pretty basic...Miller Diversion 165. I'm brain dead right now at 1am but I know the machine is marked which way for aluminum and the other way for steel. I don't remember the details on the 1/8" tungsten right now either... I'll check on my cart I think I bought a pack of them. I know I tried several things on the advice of the welding shop trying to figure out my contamination issue.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

My handicap package arrived today.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-265Pwxf/0/L/IMAG3630-L.jpg

:unibrow:

well how do you like it? know you have to have at least 1/2 hour on it by now.

Remember to turn your gas down. The first time I ran mine I blew right through it at 15 CFM.

[GregWeld]

Be nice Greg or your SS exhaust system will crack from welding Karma....



I wasn't being mean! I was just surprised... as in... OMG! NO!


I think the polished food grade SS exhaust on the '32 cracks while I'm sleeping!

[GregWeld]

It's hard to tell from this pic.... So I'm going to ask just to make sure <devil is in the details!> I ASSume that you're grinding your tungsten the correct way?? This is a question for ANYONE that is TIG welding and grinding their tungsten. There is a right way and a wrong way. Rather than me try to explain it here --- it's far faster to watch this video.


Most people hand hold the tungsten and roll it between their fingers ---- but try chucking it up in a drill motor.... and run the drill motor while pressing gently against the wheel... rolls it nice!



48I3Su5iQFw



My handicap package arrived today.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-265Pwxf/0/L/IMAG3630-L.jpg

:unibrow:

[Sieg]

well how do you like it? know you have to have at least 1/2 hour on it by now.

Remember to turn your gas down. The first time I ran mine I blew right through it at 15 CFM.

Don't have half an hour on a traditional weld yet......

First attempt was tacking stainless 1/8" rod lengthwise to 1/16" sheet w/ gas at 13CFH......I was having trouble finding a torch angle that wouldn't over-cook the rod. When tacking the ends it worked great.

I do like the added visibility. Hopefully I'll get some time in the next couple days to practice on more traditional welds. Everyone knows I need a LOT of practice. :sieg:

[Greg from Aus]

Well I have been playing a bit and I think I am getting close.
Next I will try with back purging.

Greg

38741

38742

[GregWeld]

Weld looks great Greg!


Yes - back purge will take away that sugaring and make for a clean inside the tube.


Nicely done!

[Greg from Aus]

Thanks Greg,

I'm still playing, I have a set of headers to make and I want to leave the welds untouched, I like the fabricated look.

Greg

[Sieg]

Well I have been playing a bit and I think I am getting close.
Next I will try with back purging.

Greg

38741

38742
Well done Greg. :thumbsup:

Looking forward to the back purge results.

[Greg from Aus]

Thanks Sieg,

I will let you know how it works out.

Greg

[Sieg]

New addition to the welding bench............
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-Nbwvm8z/0/L/IMAG3633-L.jpg

I'm looking for all the handicap I can get!

[GregWeld]

Nice....


And -- just because I see the Sharpie there... that reminds me! Don't try to mark something up with a Sharpie and TIG around it --- pencil either!

In other words -- if you've made a line on a part - clean it off before you weld.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

If you do need a guide line a scrib is nice. Greg how does tig react to soap stone? I never used with TIG, just curious.

Care to explain the block tig master sieg?

[GregWeld]

If you do need a guide line a scrib is nice. Greg how does tig react to soap stone? I never used with TIG, just curious.

Care to explain the block tig master sieg?



Good question Vince --- I only use soapstone when I'm plasma cutting... so haven't TIG'd around it. The Sharpie pulls the arc offline as does a pencil mark.... I would think that the burning soapstone might just contaminate the weld. Best to just not have ANYTHING around a TIG weld I think.

[Sieg]

If you do need a guide line a scrib is nice. Greg how does tig react to soap stone? I never used with TIG, just curious.

Care to explain the block tig master sieg?
The block is for a heat-sync......2.5lbs .75" thick at $3.10 per lb. = cheap tool. :)

I saw Mr TIG using it on his workbench and figured it couldn't hurt.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Welddotcom/videos

Nice....

And -- just because I see the Sharpie there... that reminds me! Don't try to mark something up with a Sharpie and TIG around it --- pencil either!

In other words -- if you've made a line on a part - clean it off before you weld.


Good question Vince --- I only use soapstone when I'm plasma cutting... so haven't TIG'd around it. The Sharpie pulls the arc offline as does a pencil mark.... I would think that the burning soapstone might just contaminate the weld. Best to just not have ANYTHING around a TIG weld I think.

The Sharpie was for scale only. I'm so paranoid of contaminating TIG welds that I'm going to start holding my breath.

If I get a chance in between kids b-ball games and lodging in-laws I'll experiment with soapstone.

I just scored 15 pcs. of perfectly clean scrap 14 ga. cold-roll 3.75" x 38" for practice purposes so I soap a piece and test.

[GregWeld]

The Sharpie was for scale only.



Just seeing the Sharpie reminded me to "say something" regarding their use.

It's the old "devil in the details".... and there's SO MUCH more to welding than just sticking two pieces of metal together.... But having done something for years -- and learning the Do's and Don'ts doesn't mean that we can all remember to tell somebody everything they've learned!


It took me awhile to learn that it's okay to use a hammer and tap the gap tight as I tack... because the gap opens just a little every time you put another tack in... and if you remember to tap the gaps tight - it makes for a LOT easier piece to weld and have it look good too!

:welder: :D

[Greg from Aus]

OK I tried with back purge today, I'm pretty happy, I think I need a touch more penetration.
I made up a tool to hold the pipes in alignment ready for tacking and that really helped.

Greg

38762

38763

38764

[GregWeld]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



Looks good Greg --- nice color -- not much if any sugaring..... You suck as a photographer though! :mock:

[Greg from Aus]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



Looks good Greg --- nice color -- not much if any sugaring..... You suck as a photographer though! :mock:


Nice, thanks Greg, It's a reasonable camera, but I have no idea how to work it.

I am running 20 on the back purge, do you think thats enough? Mr :welder:

Greg

[GregWeld]

Nah --- way too much ---- chop it down to about 5 CFH....

If you want to -- you can juice it up just to push the air out but then cut it way back down. Doesn't take much. It's really more about removing or displacing the oxygen (air).

[GregWeld]

Nice, thanks Greg, It's a reasonable camera, but I have no idea how to work it.



I just had to poke fun at your blurry photo.... Dude! I want to see those stacks of dimes you're laying down!

[Greg from Aus]

Nah --- way too much ---- chop it down to about 5 CFH....

If you want to -- you can juice it up just to push the air out but then cut it way back down. Doesn't take much. It's really more about removing or displacing the oxygen (air).

Thanks Greg, I will give it a try.

Greg

[Greg from Aus]

I just had to poke fun at your blurry photo.... Dude! I want to see those stacks of dimes you're laying down!

No I really do suck.

Greg

[GregWeld]

BTW, keep in mind that argon is heavier than air. Make your breathing hole at the high spot. If you're using a flow meter, you can do the initial purge at higher flow rates... for example 20cfh, then once you are pretty sure you purged the whole thing, turn it down to 5cfh.

[Sieg]

OK I tried with back purge today, I'm pretty happy, I think I need a touch more penetration.
I made up a tool to hold the pipes in alignment ready for tacking and that really helped.

Greg

38762

38763

38764
Looking good mate :thumbsup:

You're almost ready to tackle a set of custom headers. :D

[Sieg]

BTW, keep in mind that argon is heavier than air. Make your breathing hole at the high spot. If you're using a flow meter, you can do the initial purge at higher flow rates... for example 20cfh, then once you are pretty sure you purged the whole thing, turn it down to 5cfh.

Just who do you call to get these answers?

:peepwall:

:popcorn2:

:D

[Sieg]

I ran one bead through a line of soapstone today and it wasn't terrible. A little discoloration in the flame but overall the bead did appear to that bad......

Then I proceeded to make my first attempt at 2.5" exhaust tubing. One piece of mild and one of stainless.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-9dCV7hb/0/L/IMAG3634-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-2LQfmrb/0/L/IMAG3638-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-wjgfWxn/0/L/IMAG3639-L.jpg

Beer goggles.........
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Other/Welding/i-fcMWzSg/0/L/IMAG3636-L.jpg

Now where's that "thrown under the bus" smilie for GW to use?

[GregWeld]

Just who do you call to get these answers?

:peepwall:

:popcorn2:

:D




That depends on whether or not I want to type the whole thing out -- or just cut and paste the part that's important.

I read A LOT..... and I research A LOT.... When someone asks a question -- many times I'll go out and research MY answer to make absolutely certain I'm telling someone the right answer... and sometimes I find a little nugget here and there that's worth remembering/sharing. Sometimes we just "think" we know something... I prefer to double check what I "think" I know. In doing that - I usually learn something too!

[GregWeld]

You're coming along nicely Siegmaster!!

[Sieg]

That depends on whether or not I want to type the whole thing out -- or just cut and paste the part that's important.

I read A LOT..... and I research A LOT.... When someone asks a question -- many times I'll go out and research MY answer to make absolutely certain I'm telling someone the right answer... and sometimes I find a little nugget here and there that's worth remembering/sharing. Sometimes we just "think" we know something... I prefer to double check what I "think" I know. In doing that - I usually learn something too!

However you do it..........DON'T STOP! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

You're coming along nicely Siegmaster!!
Thank you......almost felt like I made a little progress today.

[Greg from Aus]

Yep looking good to me Sieg, but I'm still learning.

Greg

[Sieg]

Yep looking good to me Sieg, but I'm still learning.

Greg
Thanks mate, hopefully you're eyes are sharper and hands steadier than my 54 year old units. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Thank you......almost felt like I made a little progress today.

I'm no welding instructor.... but what I "see" is a lack of rhythm of advancing the puddle -- and the addition of fill... What I see is a narrow part - then a fat part where you added fill... then you got busy watching the puddle without actually advancing it and so on.


TIG - to look good - is a very methodical Dip move dip move dip move. I think new welders get mesmerized with not trying to burn through etc but then kind of freeze up...

Practice the rhythm and the rest will come.

Also - I think you have too much heat... which will cause you to struggle with too much thinking about burn thru... back off the heat until you're struggling instead with making a puddle... then up the heat just a tad... now work on the rhythm.

[Greg from Aus]

Thanks mate, hopefully you're eyes are sharper and hands steadier than my 54 year old units. :thumbsup:

You have only got 2 years on me, I don't shake but glasses are defiantly needed.

Greg

[GregWeld]

Wait til you guys turn 60.... by then your practicing and skills should make up for what you can't see... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sieg]

I'm no welding instructor.... but what I "see" is a lack of rhythm
The only rhythm I have is in my music collection............

y1ehMrK3itM

I don't have enough time under my belt to grasp a feel for the ratio of heat, speed, and filler to puddle advancement.........yet. Practice practice practice!!! :sieg:

[HEEP]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question, but here goes.
I noticed in the Fairway Chevelle thread that the exhaust is mounted to the frame with tabs. Does stainless tubing not grow when hot like my aluminized tubing on my HEEP? My exhaust on the HEEP grew about an inch and a half when it is running. Would it not be better to use the rubber hangers that the bar slides into to hang our exhaust on these cars?

THANKS

[GregWeld]

Good question -- with many variables to the right answer. Is there a "bellows" added to the system? Is there a woven stainless coupler in the system? How much horsepower? Turbo'd? Blown? Etc.... it's all about the heat in the system.

I personally have installed both styles of hangers.... but I always use a woven stainless vibration / flex couplers which I think helps with the "movement".

The stainless steel exhaust in my '32 (which is very short) grows an inch - and I've had nothing but issues with it because of the way it was hung (I didn't built it) and I think adding a flexible coupler would have solved the problems.

[HEEP]

Greg,
Thanks for the reply. I saw the stainless bellow and I agree that will help with vibration and some growing. However, I'm wondering with the exhaust tied to the frame in at least two places, if it will push forward to the headers. do you think the bellow will take all the slack? Seems like it will start putting too much pressure on the headers.
Now, please don't get me wrong, I know ironworks knows what he's doing, i'm just going from what I saw on my HEEP. I don't want the exhaust to be a problem on my Chevelle.

Thanks.

[GregWeld]

Personally --- this guys slow talking drives me crazy -- but he does good videos... and you'll learn something from him.





Ds6cLG3ThDY&feature

[Sieg]

Guess I'm supposed to watch it huh? :sieg:

[GregWeld]

I picked up something in this video that HE DID NOT DO... which I always do on SS..... I clean the oxide off the edges before I weld with a rolox disc (fine)...

He also welds at the same speed he talks -- S L O W L Y..... IMHO way too slowly. But you still learn stuff from his videos because he produces them as though he's talking to a classroom full of 5 year olds. :popcorn2:

[Sieg]

He's another guy I feel delivers good info. He talks faster too. :lol:

jKAW0-L-wRo

His TIG Finger product has merit..........I'm going to try a shortened piece of Moroso plug wire shield I have laying around.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The guy that taught me said do what ever you have to so you are comfortable. Don't say any thing but I wear an ove-glove when I'm doing aluminum.

[GregWeld]

WeldingTipsandtricks.com is a very good video website.... and I agree -- he just gives you good info and shows you some techniques.



Real men TIG with bare hands....

[Sieg]

Real men TIG with bare hands....
I'm wondering if he wears the apron that matches the oven mitt.....:sieg:

[GregWeld]

I'm wondering if he wears the apron that matches the oven mitt.....:sieg:



Ouch.... :D



Something -- as in ANYTHING -- that can keep your hands comfortable -- is well worth using - regardless of what that is. Of course - like all things - the welder needs to be adaptable to the business at hand... the material (some transfer heat faster than others)... the amount of heat needed to make the weld etc. The thin little TIG gloves we all use certainly don't offer much protection.

[Sieg]

Ouch.... :D



Something -- as in ANYTHING -- that can keep your hands comfortable -- is well worth using - regardless of what that is. Of course - like all things - the welder needs to be adaptable to the business at hand... the material (some transfer heat faster than others)... the amount of heat needed to make the weld etc. The thin little TIG gloves we all use certainly don't offer much protection.
I totally agree and may use the oven-mitt trick in the future.........if I can find one in a houndstooth print. :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I do wear an apron when I sit down MIG....Like on xmas eve, no one likes burnt nuts. With about 6 hours a day on sit down mig, thats alot of nuts. :lol:

I was amazed on how how much more I am relaxed and how much better I weld when im not thinking about pain. I use to get these nasty side finger burns from the tig torch. I have very delicate fingers.

[southernhemi]

Hi guys
First post here on Lat G, was going to save it for when I start my own project in the next few months. However I thought you might like these.

I do a lot of tig work in my job, my local welding supplier gave me these goggles to try, after I used them once I wouldn't give them back.
Auto switching to shade 13
Good quality and come with a fire retardant balaclava so you don't end up with a Raccoon tan line on the face.

Great for roll age work or any job where a helmet restricts head access.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/PRS2606/trim/78A5C2A6-C444-48E9-9E82-30C75B958205-935-00000084A20AE4FA_zpsc8442f65.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/PRS2606/trim/5ACEB541-B28D-44C0-AAE6-DBB7B91255D7-935-00000084AA164950_zpsdfd62e13.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/PRS2606/trim/C6977C63-A387-4E6F-8D92-BB49C80A36FE-935-00000084B1119502_zpsa3d74671.jpg

Been gaining inspiration and knowledge from here for years now, I even feel like I know some of you guys by now!

Ben

[GregWeld]

WELCOME BEN!!!


Nice set of googles! And yes --- I've managed to get "sun burned" on my arms and my face! Who knew?? :rolleyes:



Glad a real welder posted in here ---- what are we doing wrong? Or right?

[GriffithMetal]

Hi guys
First post here on Lat G, was going to save it for when I start my own project in the next few months. However I thought you might like these.

I do a lot of tig work in my job, my local welding supplier gave me these goggles to try, after I used them once I wouldn't give them back.
Auto switching to shade 13
Good quality and come with a fire retardant balaclava so you don't end up with a Raccoon tan line on the face.

Great for roll age work or any job where a helmet restricts head access.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/PRS2606/trim/78A5C2A6-C444-48E9-9E82-30C75B958205-935-00000084A20AE4FA_zpsc8442f65.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/PRS2606/trim/5ACEB541-B28D-44C0-AAE6-DBB7B91255D7-935-00000084AA164950_zpsdfd62e13.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg542/PRS2606/trim/C6977C63-A387-4E6F-8D92-BB49C80A36FE-935-00000084B1119502_zpsa3d74671.jpg

Been gaining inspiration and knowledge from here for years now, I even feel like I know some of you guys by now!

Ben

I want those goggles!

[Sieg]

Welcome Ben, those goggles are very cool........do they have magnifiers for them?

Look forward to your contributions. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Practice practice practice..........about 40 2" beads and 3.5 filler rods tonight.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6SqckwT/0/L/i-6SqckwT-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DKsGcs3/0/L/i-DKsGcs3-L.jpg

Only 4 tungsten grinds! :woot:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

looks good, can't really gauge the tempsfrom the pictures but some look consistant. how fast are you moving between?

[southernhemi]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

If anybody is interested on the goggles they are made by Servore and called ARC-513. You can get a clip in peice that prescription lenses fit int, I guess these are making for the old guys.

Greg, I'm not sure I am a real welder. I'm self taught with 20 years practice. I was 15 when I picked up my dads AC/DC tig. Nobody in his shop could use it so I had to work it out myself. I had nobody to teach me, no Internet for YouTube or forums and it was an Italian made machine so the instructions wernt even in English. Pretty steep learning curve. :bang:

Sieg, the ones on the right in the second pic are pretty good, before the heat builds up. Maybe try a smaller filler rod so you don't need as much heat to flow the filler into your pool. Sometimes I cut .8mm mig wire for the really tight joints. The heat is building up in your material which makes it hard to not burn the stainless as it goes in. Unless you drop your amps right down. Weld two pieces together, let them cool down before you weld to the side of it again. Fist ones look good but that heat build up is a killer without a pedal. Practice practice practice, it's only going to get easier.

[Sieg]

looks good, can't really gauge the tempsfrom the pictures but some look consistant. how fast are you moving between?
Say - puddle dab puddle dab crap puddle dab puddle........about that fast.
Thanks for the welcome guys.

If anybody is interested on the goggles they are made by Servore and called ARC-513. You can get a clip in peice that prescription lenses fit int, I guess these are making for the old guys.

Greg, I'm not sure I am a real welder. I'm self taught with 20 years practice. I was 15 when I picked up my dads AC/DC tig. Nobody in his shop could use it so I had to work it out myself. I had nobody to teach me, no Internet for YouTube or forums and it was an Italian made machine so the instructions wernt even in English. Pretty steep learning curve. :bang:

Sieg, the ones on the right in the second pic are pretty good, before the heat builds up. Maybe try a smaller filler rod so you don't need as much heat to flow the filler into your pool. Sometimes I cut .8mm mig wire for the really tight joints. The heat is building up in your material which makes it hard to not burn the stainless as it goes in. Unless you drop your amps right down. Weld two pieces together, let them cool down before you weld to the side of it again. Fist ones look good but that heat build up is a killer without a pedal. Practice practice practice, it's only going to get easier.

Hmmm.............another twenty years and I might be someplace............hopefully not in a rocker drooling on my bibb. :drool:

I was running 32-34 amps on the stainless. Just flat stock running beads on top of it with 1/16" rod. I was wishing I had .040" rod. I have .023" stainless MIG wire but felt that would be too small. Here's a bad pic of the backside of the stainless, 25% of them had some sugaring.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TLWrdq7/0/L/i-TLWrdq7-L.jpg

Here's last nights first attempt at lap welding on 14 gauge cold roll, running 52-55 amp max.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-P554jbm/0/L/i-P554jbm-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Do you have Palsy? Have you been tested for Parkinson's? Have you seen a doctor lately?






Just kidding you of course...... You're doing "fine". You're still erratic in your feed technique and forward movement - but that gets better with practice.





+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Sieg]

Do you have Palsy? Have you been tested for Parkinson's? Have you seen a doctor lately?

Just kidding you of course...... You're doing "fine". You're still erratic in your feed technique and forward movement - but that gets better with practice.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OTND - Old Timer Newbie Disease

The 14 ga was 3 different runs using different max amps, torch angles, and tungsten movement. This TIG stuff is real easy especially when you have LOFT!

[GregWeld]

If it was easy ---- the fat chicks could do it!



And if it was easy ---- it wouldn't be any fun to try to master!

[GregWeld]

BTW ---- I still think you're a bit focused on the "amps" ----- and when learning --- your natural tendency is to weld real slowly.... building too much heat. When you turn your heat down -- way down -- you can focus more on the hand coordination of moving and dabbing and oh crapping....


EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA

[Sieg]

BTW ---- I still think you're a bit focused on the "amps" ----- and when learning --- your natural tendency is to weld real slowly.... building too much heat. When you turn your heat down -- way down -- you can focus more on the hand coordination of moving and dabbing and oh crapping....

EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA
I've been trying to keep the amps low to reduce heat to the point of not having much puddle to dab into thus sticking the rod at the front of the puddle (oh crap) so I'd add a couple amps to the max range. Incorrect torch angle could come into play, tungsten grind, amp/speed/peddle/dab angle/vision, or, or, or.........:getout:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

what are your amps ? I did a test piece of 16 ga and the amps ranged 27-34amps. Keep it up.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I've been trying to keep the amps low to reduce heat to the point of not having much puddle to dab into thus sticking the rod at the front of the puddle (oh crap) so I'd add a couple amps to the max range. Incorrect torch angle could come into play, tungsten grind, amp/speed/peddle/dab angle/vision, or, or, or.........:getout:




All of the above!!! :lol: :lol:


If you're rod is sticking into the puddle --- you might need smaller filler rod...


You know too --- and I write this for everyone --- not just Sieg.... Torch size has a lot to do with TIG welding.... of course - like most things - when you get good - you can weld with anything and just make adjustments.... but if you're welding on small thin gauge stuff.... then you need a small torch to go with that work. Like using a huge crescent wrench on a 1/4" nut.... if you think of it that way. Small = thin = delicate = pieces you have to use the small thin delicate torch / tungsten / fill rod.


Note that the CK site rates torches in amperage max....


http://www.ckworldwide.com/master.htm



My torches are all flex head... I like to be able to bend the head around to suit my work angle - which sometimes are just two pieces laying flat on a table! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

what are your amps ? I did a test piece of 16 ga and the amps ranged 27-34amps. Keep it up.:thumbsup:

On the 16 ga stainless my machine was set at 32-34 max amperage. 1/16 tungsten, 1/4" stick out, pyrex gas lens, flow 11-12 CFH........... not sure about my grip pressure, heart rate, breathing pattern, and bio-rhythms. :sieg:

[Sieg]

If you're rod is sticking into the puddle --- you might need smaller filler rod...
I'll mention that to the wife. :thankyou:

[ccracin]

On the 16 ga stainless my machine was set at 32-34 max amperage. 1/16 tungsten, 1/4" stick out, pyrex gas lens, flow 11-12 CFH........... not sure about my grip pressure, heart rate, breathing pattern, and bio-rhythms. :sieg:

You need to make sure your wallet is in the same pocket as the hand you hold the torch with! Thus is key! :poke:

[GregWeld]

You need to make sure your wallet is in the same pocket as the hand you hold the torch with! Thus is key! :poke:



Great point....

[GregWeld]

I'll mention that to the wife. :thankyou:



She'll tell you, "you need more rod"....


That's a given.



Adding fill isn't sex -- you don't need to try to hit bottom. Hitting the bottom of the puddle will cause the rod to stick... but you already knew that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

She'll tell you, "you need more rod"....


That's a given.



Adding fill isn't sex -- you don't need to try to hit bottom. Hitting the bottom of the puddle will cause the rod to stick... but you already knew that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
More Rod?

elIFrSGEBxk

[Sieg]

You need to make sure your wallet is in the same pocket as the hand you hold the torch with! Thus is key! :poke:
How much money in the wallet before this has an effect?

[ccracin]

How much money in the wallet before this has an effect?

I think the proper amounts are as follows:
Carbon Steel - $20
Aluminum - $50
Stainless Steel -$Have Greg Do It$ :G-Dub:

[intocarss]

yT108iL-vMw

[GregWeld]

Good video...


Note that at the end he used magnetic clamps.... but I will tell you what you didn't see was that he didn't weld near them. He would have positioned the clamps so that he could make a quick tack... removed them and finished.


The other thing that's really evident in the video is the CLAMPING... this is not only done to hold the parts - but also to help to control warpage. When I've had friends build things - then come over to figure out "what happened" when their part was out of square or warped beyond use.... They never clamped anything. The other thing you'll find "newbs" do is that they don't tack... We here on Lat G are exposed to lots of tack welding... but many people aren't shown that part and just start welding 'er up. <<buzzer>>

[Sieg]

One amp per thousandth - check. 30ish pulses per second - check.

I'll be fabbing a set of pipes like this in no time. :sieg:

https://fbcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/149196_445910868824264_2138633653_n.jpg

[GregWeld]

An amp per 1/1000 has been the rule for 10,000 years.... :lol:



I hope your welding is better than on that set of pipes...



Does your TIG have pulse? I only use pulse when doing Aluminum.... but then again - we we're building cars not bikes and don't normally do super thin tubing...

[GregWeld]

When you start laying stacks like this.......








http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-5.jpg









I'll send you this (held by my son Alex - as this arrived yesterday)......'cause by that time this will be ready to drink! LOL









http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-6.jpg

[Sieg]

An amp per 1/1000 has been the rule for 10,000 years.... :lol:

I hope your welding is better than on that set of pipes...

Does your TIG have pulse? I only use pulse when doing Aluminum.... but then again - we we're building cars not bikes and don't normally do super thin tubing...

Guess that's why you forgot to tell me. Just like a calculating lawyer withholding fundamental information.

I'm better than that, that pinhead couldn't even put a hole in that tubing. :D

Yes, I have a pulsating tigger.

Regarding the bottle of grape juice..........:smiley_smack:

[GregWeld]

Regarding the bottle of grape juice..........:smiley_smack:




I've got a 6.0 Liter too -- if the Balthazar is too big for ya.... Go big! Or go Home! :D

[Greg from Aus]

Thanks everybody, keep the info going. Seig your welds are certainly improving.

Greg

[GregWeld]

Thanks everybody, keep the info going. Seig your welds are certainly improving.

Greg




That's what it looks like to me too!


I'd better keep my mouth shut or he'll wind up with that bottle!!


:D

[Sieg]

That's what it looks like to me too!

I'd better keep my mouth shut or he'll wind up with that bottle!!

:D
I'm going to stage a victory. I know a guy that can really TIG and he's my size, I'll give him my jacket gloves and helmet and photograph him at my bench with the GoPro and submit the evidence for the victory! :trophy-1302:

I may spend $300 on argon and rod to obtain that bottle - it's simply a matter of principle - even if it was Gallo jug wine. :rules:

On a side note I just burnt the crap out of the ring finger tip pad .5" x .75". I was sanding a piece of stainless on the 8" disk sander, took my gloves off to quick reply to a text and forgot to put them back on :confused59: ..........already blistered.........ouchie. :sieg:

[GregWeld]

My bet is -- we could start a thread all about how many times, and how many weird places, Lat G members have burned themselves doing this thing we call a hobby. It would be 200 pages in no time! :lol:


Probably be another 200 page thread on "how I ripped open my (fill in the blank)" with a jagged piece of metal. We could separate with a sub threads with RUSTED vs DIRTY GREASY vs CLEAN AND SHARP AS A RAZOR BLADE.


Personally - I've learned not to weld ANYTHING with tennis shoes on... seems something red hot always finds it's way between my toes.

[Sieg]

Can anyone beat this tungsten trick?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-P3T5mM7/0/M/i-P3T5mM7-M.jpg

:sieg:

A hot-rod friend saw this book and had to buy it for me.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PTDRrB4/0/L/i-PTDRrB4-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CN3FGr3/0/L/i-CN3FGr3-L.jpg

It's the second version of the 1942 original published in 1947 and in immaculate condition. Has all the basic weld techniques, certification and testing requirements. Great resource!

[GregWeld]

Nice book!


When I was in high school I worked in at body shop (Gateway Body and Fender - which is still in business to this day!) -- and we used to Braze fenders etc on - and I learned to weld with Oxy/Ace torch. Those skills were easily transferred when I started to TIG - because it's a similar hand action. The major difference is with the gas torch - you made a circular motion. But moving the puddle - torch angles - fill feed - those are directly similar.

Back then (45 years ago!) we Stick welded... and that's very similar to MIG welding - you could push or drag the stick.. You learned to bury it in the puddle if you needed the penetration - and how to pick up both sides of an inside corner - or the weave needed for a vertical joint etc. I like not having to chip the slag... :lol:

[GregWeld]

The oldest trick in the book dude! :disgusted:






Can anyone beat this tungsten trick?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-P3T5mM7/0/M/i-P3T5mM7-M.jpg

[Sieg]

The oldest trick in the book dude! :disgusted:
Backside contamination on 1/2" od 1/16 wall sq tubing. I was just tigging along and POP!......crater in one of the better beads I've put down. Happened three more times and I said "F it" enough of this cutesey crap this bracket needs to be done and fired up the MIG. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

If your weld is popping ---- it's DIRTY!

Or you're welding on junk tube. Tough to TIG Galvanized water pipe... Which I doubt you're doing. In fact -- don't TIG galvanized anything.

Tubes tend to build up heat inside and draw oily smoke into the weld...


And - if you're trying to close up the tube ... and it's a short piece... I punch a 1/8" hole at the end for a heat escape - otherwise the pressure build up of the expanding heated air inside can blow thru right where you're welding as you're trying to close it up.

[Sieg]

If your weld is popping ---- it's DIRTY!

Or you're welding on junk tube. Tough to TIG Galvanized water pipe... Which I doubt you're doing. In fact -- don't TIG galvanized anything.

Tubes tend to build up heat inside and draw oily smoke into the weld...


And - if you're trying to close up the tube ... and it's a short piece... I punch a 1/8" hole at the end for a heat escape - otherwise the pressure build up of the expanding heated air inside can blow thru right where you're welding as you're trying to close it up.

Didn't consider the pressure build up, it was fully closed but the small volume probably added to POP. Contamination most likely the culprit, new stock tubing properly prepped externally but I didn't take a bore cleaning brush and solvent to the inside. It was a fast and dirty project............and another learn by experience event. Regrinding tungsten is similar punishment to writing something a 100 times on a chalkboard.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NWGZX93/1/M/i-NWGZX93-M.jpg

[GregWeld]

It's a steep learning curve.... but check another "don't" or "do" off the list.


Yes --- you had HEAT and Fumes (think machine oil from the tube process) blowing out molten metal.

Do you ever wonder - how I can figure these things out BEFORE you post pics of what you were working on?? :lol:

I buy NON Chlorinated brake clean by the CASE ($1.99 a can if you catch it on sale) to shoot down inside stuff like this BEFORE welding. And either you can drill a small escape hole -- or leave the last tiny bit open - let it all cool down and go back and touch it up.


:thumbsup: :popcorn2:

[Sieg]

Do you ever wonder - how I can figure these things out BEFORE you post pics of what you were working on?? :lol:
You read a lot? :sieg:

[GregWeld]

BTW -- I see some nice dime stacks going on there!


Good for you!!


Another thing you'll learn - as well as anyone else reading this thread - is that small projects like this can teach you A LOT.... and a lot of it is about the heat build up in the total of the part. You'd be amazed at how hot stuff can get - and this WILL affect your welding.

[Sieg]

BTW -- I see some nice dime stacks going on there!

Good for you!!

Another thing you'll learn - as well as anyone else reading this thread - is that small projects like this can teach you A LOT.... and a lot of it is about the heat build up in the total of the part. You'd be amazed at how hot stuff can get - and this WILL affect your welding.

Lots of small convenience stuff.......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RrJmgk3/0/L/i-RrJmgk3-L.jpg http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JhfM2T6/0/L/i-JhfM2T6-L.jpg

These dime stacks turn me on..........as does the part itself
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/jcgrestoration/IMG_3135_zps3ede4844.jpg

[GregWeld]

So Sieg and I were texting back and forth.... regarding TIG welding.

#1 -- Please trust me when I tell you I'm no expert welder. Actually - I'm no expert anything.... but I weld once in awhile. Sometimes it's TIG - maybe it's stainless steel - maybe it's aluminum.... sometimes I MIG.... But HOME SHOP GUYS just don't weld very often. And when we do -- it's rarely the same thing twice!

I say this because what people need to understand is that you're never going to lay down perfect little unwavering beads --- like a pro does --- that welds bicycle frames all day long for a living. We just don't get behind the wheel that often -- but that's not to say you can't develop decent welding skills - and like riding a bicycle - you should be able to go for periods of time - without forgetting what you've learned.

Experts know all the little tips and tricks. Me? I have to remember to plug the GD machine into the wall!!

So back to the reason for the post. Sieg sent me some decent stacks via text. Then I decided - since I've been telling him to REDUCE his amperage and slow his travel speed down while he's trying to get the move / dab / move / dap hand dance down. So with this in mind I thought --- OKAY BIG MOUTH --- head out to the shed and see if I can replicate what I'm seeing in Siegs beads and do this myself! WTF -- It's raining today... I got nothing better to do - and it'll be interesting.


First I cut a bunch of 5" long 1" square .50 wall tubing.... deburred it -- cleaned it with NON chlorinated brake cleaner - and scuffed it quickly with a 3" roloc disc.


The rule of thumb is ONE amp per ONE THOUSANDTH material thickness.... and since I'd been telling Sieggy the weld master to cut his amperage I figured I'd stick to that rule - so 50 amps it is....

Well.... I could hardly get a puddle going - and by the time I could get puddle and try to move it along and dab --- #1 my auto darkening helmet kept lighting up! Which blinds you momentarily - and trying to weld at this low amperage was just so SLOW.... and not a good puddle at all! It was like REALLY DUDE! YOU SUCK!!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-16.jpg








Now -- the MILLER weld calculator I have on the phone says the range for 1/16th butt welded steel should be 50 to 80 amps...

I have not TIG welded ANYTHING for probably 4 or 5 months!

I'm using a 1/16th 2% Thoriated (red end) tungsten - 11 CFH argon gas - 1/16th fill rod - gas lens #7 cup.

Both ends tacked --- I started at one end and laid down the whole 5" piece... and this was what I got:

My point is that --- with too low of amperage (heat) I couldn't weld for shizzle! Using the top end of the "range" I could walk the puddle and dab (one dab per little stack here) and weld at a speed that I'm used to.










http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-11.jpg

[GregWeld]

Now on to just plain old BS....


I use a tungsten sharpener.... I don't think this makes any difference at all in your welding -- but when it really counts -- I know I can shape a tungsten and it's not contaminated etc....





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-8.jpg







And it does it fast and the same every time!








http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-9.jpg










But the one tool (I made from a cam gear / and old wrench / and the ends I cut off of a couple Mark Williams axles) that I think really helps is a PROPER torch rest!!! :snapout:









http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/file-15.jpg

[Sieg]

Nice tool!

You just sparked an idea for mine, thanks.

[GregWeld]

Nice tool!

You just sparked an idea for mine, thanks.




:idea: :hairpullout: :idea: :lol: :lol:

[66fury]

I love following a build but sometimes its the cool homemade stuff that really showcases true imagination. Love the torch stand

[GregWeld]

I love following a build but sometimes its the cool homemade stuff that really showcases true imagination. Love the torch stand



:D :D Glad you like it!


So much time.... so little to do.....

[ccracin]

I found the same issue with amperage. I thought I was doing something wrong since all published stuff I saw said 1 amp per thou. So, on .50 sheet metal I set the machine at 65 amps and went to town. I had my Dad watch the readout on the welder as I was welding. Turns out that I used about 62 amps to create the puddle and as I moved along, I was down around 48-52. I guess once some heat soaks into the material it acts as a pre-heat and then allows you to back off on the current. Just a guess.

Now I need to make a torch stand, quit posting that stuff. I have enough to do! :action-smiley-027:

[Sieg]

Makes sense to me Chad.

Being a rookie I was having a tough time getting a puddle due to low amps. Once I used a more aggressive max amp setting it allowed me to hit it quick and hot, similar to a tack weld, to get the puddle started then back it down.

Miller's phone app notes to add 10% to the amperage setting for mild steel vs. stainless.

Your post got me thinking......if it was a CNC process the machine would probably monitor material temp ahead of the bead and the amperage would gradually be stepped down from start to finish as heat builds.

I thinking about videoing my machine readout while practicing to better understand the process. Similar to a Dyno chart or GPS track log for an event.

[GregWeld]

Thus the foot pedal... for controlling your amperage. Your eyes are the monitor...

[Sieg]

Thus the foot pedal... for controlling your amperage. Your eyes are the monitor...
Once I get those sync'd up.............:RunninDog:

Little personalizations are helping a lot also. Hand props of varying heights, a taller stool, clamping fixtures, etc. I'm finding I can't have too many "custom" accessories. Anything that improves vision, range of movement, and angle of attack......

[GregWeld]

Once I get those sync'd up.............:RunninDog:

Little personalizations are helping a lot also. Hand props of varying heights, a taller stool, clamping fixtures, etc. I'm finding I can't have too many "custom" accessories. Anything that improves vision, range of movement, and angle of attack......



EXACTLY!!!



It's all about freedom of movement - or travel - while being able to be unwavering... I find that if I'm moving too slow -- the weld will wander etc. So once I get cranking I just want to make that puddle travel.

[Sieg]

Here's a decent video I stumbled across today.

FuSNSp68l0U

[GregWeld]

Good video!


My problem is I watch the videos etc -- but by the time I go to weld something -- 8 months have passed and damn if I can remember what it was I was supposed to do! I then go to the internet and try to find the info...


That's the difference between the us and the guys that weld all the time.

[Sieg]

Good video!


My problem is I watch the videos etc -- but by the time I go to weld something -- 8 months have passed and damn if I can remember what it was I was supposed to do! I then go to the internet and try to find the info...


That's the difference between the us and the guys that weld all the time.

If you have a YouTube account there's a thing called "favorites" that you can create a TIG Folder and add the videos to or just add the URL to you browser's favorites............:mock:

You can get even............latest attempt at TIG

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cmmpNCJ/0/L/i-cmmpNCJ-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5BCWvWp/0/L/i-5BCWvWp-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-c9Q6dRm/0/L/i-c9Q6dRm-L.jpg

:peepwall:

[GregWeld]

Hard to tell what size that steel is (3/8th or 1/2") -- but to weld that without a water cooled torch... Dude! You da king of handlin' da heat!

[Sieg]

Hard to tell what size that steel is (3/8th or 1/2") -- but to weld that without a water cooled torch... Dude! You da king of handlin' da heat!
It's .25" and it gets the paws a little warm!

Two more attempts......

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w3qh7SB/0/L/i-w3qh7SB-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5mfK3ZL/0/L/i-5mfK3ZL-L.jpg

I'm guessing the speed is a little slow........possibly over penetration?

Thicker is easier.......should have started on that a long time ago.

These weld are with 1/16" tungsten and rod, 110-120 max amps.

[GregWeld]

You know you can check settings with the Miller weld calculator right??


So that weld is called a FILLET weld... and on .25 (1/4") steel ----

Miller calls for 1/8th Tungsten -- with a 1/2" torch cup -- 3/16" fill material -- 250 to 325 amps -- 13 CFH gas flow -- with a welding speed of 5" per minute.


My little Miller Dynasty 200 DX won't even go that high... :lol: :lol:

[GregWeld]

Oh ----- I forgot.....


It still is looking like you're gaining some skills....


It isn't that easy you know.

[Sieg]

Time to cut them on the saw and see if I can determine penetration. My machine is good for 220.......

[GregWeld]

Time to cut them on the saw and see if I can determine penetration. My machine is good for 220.......



Okay -- but a 1/16th Tungsten ISN'T..... it's only good for 150 amps on most charts --- but the Tips and Tricks dude will tell you it's only good to 120. I go with him on this one. (and anything else he says for that matter).

Range on the low side -- 20 amps...


That's DC neg or DCEN as it's called (DC Electrode Negative)

[Hotrod1]

Hey Guys:

When you are purging, are you using a dedicated separate cylinder of argon or have you tapped into the tig argon cylinder? If you have tapped into the tig argon, I would like to see how you did it. If it is dedicated, is there just another regulator? Dont necessarily want to get another set up to purge and occasional stainless tube.

[Sieg]

TIG welding practice project......fabbed a necklace and ring holder for the wife for Mothers Day.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L3NGTvx/1/L/i-L3NGTvx-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Hey Guys:

When you are purging, are you using a dedicated separate cylinder of argon or have you tapped into the tig argon cylinder? If you have tapped into the tig argon, I would like to see how you did it. If it is dedicated, is there just another regulator? Dont necessarily want to get another set up to purge and occasional stainless tube.


I would think that most of us are just using a single bottle with a tap for a purge line. If you want to you can run a separate gauge etc so that you can control the flow.

Just hit your local welding shop and they can show you some options on how to set this up.





TIG welding practice project......fabbed a necklace and ring holder for the wife for Mothers Day.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L3NGTvx/1/L/i-L3NGTvx-L.jpg





<holding a card to his forehead - and wearing a diaper for a turban> I see a future for you little one......

[GregWeld]

Hey Guys:

When you are purging, are you using a dedicated separate cylinder of argon or have you tapped into the tig argon cylinder? If you have tapped into the tig argon, I would like to see how you did it. If it is dedicated, is there just another regulator? Dont necessarily want to get another set up to purge and occasional stainless tube.





What you really need to do this CORRECTLY ---- is a DUAL FLOW regulator like this --- they're near $300 if you shop.




http://store.cyberweld.com/viredfm150du.html

[Sieg]

<holding a card to his forehead - and wearing a diaper for a turban> I see a future for you little one......
http://www.newshowstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/carson21.jpg

[Rhino]

...fabbed a necklace and ring holder for the wife...

I like your style. I'll have to remember this. When she starts complaining about spending too much time in the garage you break out "But... but... honey, I'm practicing for you" :lol:

[Sieg]

I like your style. I'll have to remember this. When she starts complaining about spending too much time in the garage you break out "But... but... honey, I'm practicing for you" :lol:

Definitely a win-win strategy. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Mom's Mother's Day magnetic photo frame.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5kXBstM/1/XL/i-5kXBstM-XL.jpg

Wife's necklace holder loaded

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4JBcJWX/1/XL/i-4JBcJWX-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

Awesome dude!



Nice that your kids can weld like that.

[Sieg]

Awesome dude!

Nice that your kids can weld like that.

kO4DPI1hegc

[GregWeld]

I think we should all book flights to AUSTIN -- and have ERIC AKA: Griffthmetal give us some TIG instruction. It's a cute little town... he does wonderful work... we can harass Bryan - Eric and SW all in one fell swoop...


Then we can head out to The Salt Lick for a little BBQ and Beer (BYO - it's a dry county).



:hello:

[RussMurco]

Then we can head out to The Salt Lick for a little BBQ and Beer (BYO - it's a dry county).

:hello:

Austin Texas is in a dry county?!:confused59:

[GregWeld]

Austin Texas is in a dry county?!:confused59:



No Austin isn't -- but "The Salt Lick" I went to is in Driftwood, Texass......

[carbuff]

I think we should all book flights to AUSTIN -- and have ERIC AKA: Griffthmetal give us some TIG instruction. It's a cute little town... he does wonderful work...

Agreed on that! I'm proud to have his welds on my car. I need to get him to spend an hour or two teaching me before we wrap up this project. ;)

As for that other type of 'Weld':

Then we can head out to The Salt Lick for a little BBQ and Beer (BYO - it's a dry county).

Pictures, or I don't believe you actually went. :peepwall:

[Revved]

Just when I think I've got TIG figured out I try something new and get my arss kicked.

Building aprons and rad support for this current project and this is V2.0 trying to weld in this flange. Same thing happened the first time- warped the crap out of the panel. This time I've tried TIGing the flange on before cutting out the opening hoping the extra material would help keep the panel straight. Sheet metal is 18g. V2.0 flange is 11g vs using 18g on the first one- again trying to stiffen the panel. The flange was tacked down about every 6-8" all the way around before welding. I'm welding about an inch at a time then skipping 6-8" and welding another inch. I'm only using enough heat to make the weld and moving along at a pretty decent pace.

Suggestions??!?!?

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/General%20Junk/IMG_20130614_125524_481_zps0884598d.jpg

[GregWeld]

Too much heat.... and not enough clamping....


You'd need to use a large angle iron bar or something similar and hold down the entire edge of the sheet metal....


Then you need to turn the heat way lower or weld way faster -- but most of the heat into the "flange" rather than the sheet... and you need to allow it to cool before beginning another weld and weld on a completely different area... use a damp rag to cool quickly after welding and do far less of a bead than you're running...


That's my .02 ---- I hope others will kick in with how they'd do it.

[SuperB70]

I'm with Greg. Heat as always. But instead angle iron, how about large thick piece of aluminium or copper. It would tranfer the heat out from the welded piece. Pulse is nice on that kind of welds, just set it low p/sec.

Or fab the piece little bit different. Cut the opening but make hole smaller and make straight sections of the angle from it and only weld the cornerpieces.

Another cooling style is compressed air, blowgun, less mess and easier to continue welding than water.

[Revved]

OK just ruined V3.0 Better than the last one but still warped the edges. I clamped it with a piece of 1" square tubing in about 5 spots down the length as I welded the top and bottom. I've got the heat turned as far down as it will go and still melt metal. I've been using one wet rag laying across the inside and another small one to quench each spot after my weld. I even tried rolling a bead around the opening to see if that would help control the warpage but still not flat. Somehow I must still be getting it too hot!!! :bang: I wonder if a different type of filler rod with a lower melting point would help? I've often noticed that when TIGing mild steel with this rod it tends to be sticky (not wanting to fully puddle) and I have to get it right on top of the tungsten to get it to melt.

Or I just need to get better at my metal working to straighten out the edges...

I think I will try some 16g for V4.0 And I do have some aluminum bar laying around that I will try for the clamping next time.

Has anyone tried that Eastwood welding heat putty?

[Revved]

Austin Texas is in a dry county?!:confused59:

You would be surprised how many counties out here are dry. Even going into Chilli's or Saltgrass Steak house in some counties you have to "join their club" to have a beer with your dinner. They can't serve alcohol to the general public but they can serve to member of their "private club."


I'm down for a run to Austin for a metalworking class!! It's only about a 3 hour drive for me. Get that set up Greg!!

[GregWeld]

If this is not a "structural" weld.... you could get yourself some silicone bronze...


By the way -- I don't think you could NOT have warpage on that flat plate of some kind. Any time you heat metal you expand it and when it cools it shrinks... since you're welding in only one area that area is going to expand and contract more (warpage).

What you may need to do is to make your gauges match --- but we don't know what you're building...

Does the piece require the two gauges of metal? Could you use an L shape and just plug weld it? Or use a thicker gauge and drill and tap it to attach your flat?

[Revved]

If this is not a "structural" weld.... you could get yourself some silicone bronze...


By the way -- I don't think you could NOT have warpage on that flat plate of some kind. Any time you heat metal you expand it and when it cools it shrinks... since you're welding in only one area that area is going to expand and contract more (warpage).

What you may need to do is to make your gauges match --- but we don't know what you're building...

Does the piece require the two gauges of metal? Could you use an L shape and just plug weld it? Or use a thicker gauge and drill and tap it to attach your flat?

It is a radiator support. The "flange" is basically a close out to clean up the transition to the radiator core and giving a recessed area where the A/C condenser will sit. The flange is not structural- mostly cosmetic but having the added benefit of stiffening the panel. I know it can be done... I've done it on smaller pieces without the warpage- I've just never tried a large flat panel like this before. I'd rather not use angle iron as this is a high end build and I'm trying to make it as nice as possible. I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong with my technique. I guess I could build a separate sheet metal "L" flange that I could spot weld instead of having to weld the entire edge...

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/General%20Junk/IMG_20130614_174430_517_zpsa4dbb017.jpg
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/General%20Junk/IMG_20130614_174445_243_zpsa009de03.jpg
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/General%20Junk/IMG_20130612_190341_074_zps53f79048.jpg

[GregWeld]

Well --- seeing it really helps!



You're welding too much bead....cut those beads down to half an inch or 3/4's of an inch let it cool down and add another half an inch if it needs to be longer. WAY smaller welds --- skipping around the piece will really cut the warpage. There's a lot of metal there.... but it can't take that much heat without warping. Looks like there's 3 inches of weld on some of them -- and that's where you're running into trouble. Ya gotta sneak up on it!!

[GregWeld]

BTW --- WELDING ON FLAT is just a problem -- period. You'd be far better off making this out of a series of way smaller pieces with structure -- and then welding them together to make your final piece. Just my humble opinion.

[Revved]

Well --- seeing it really helps!



You're welding too much bead....cut those beads down to half an inch or 3/4's of an inch let it cool down and add another half an inch if it needs to be longer. WAY smaller welds --- skipping around the piece will really cut the warpage. There's a lot of metal there.... but it can't take that much heat without warping. Looks like there's 3 inches of weld on some of them -- and that's where you're running into trouble. Ya gotta sneak up on it!!

Those 3" welds were done 3/4" to an inch at a time. I've been doing short welds just for that reason, quenching it and letting it sit till I can touch it by hand and then doing the next round of welds.

I'm going to think about the idea of breaking it up into separate pieces...

Thanks for the insight! If anyone else has ideas I'd like to hear them as well.. I know this can be done but obviously I'm not there yet! :lol:

[GregWeld]

Those 3" welds were done 3/4" to an inch at a time. I've been doing short welds just for that reason, quenching it and letting it sit till I can touch it by hand and then doing the next round of welds.

I'm going to think about the idea of breaking it up into separate pieces...

Thanks for the insight! If anyone else has ideas I'd like to hear them as well.. I know this can be done but obviously I'm not there yet! :lol:




If it was easy -- the fat chicks could do it!


LOL

[Vince@Meanstreets]

OK just ruined V3.0 Better than the last one but still warped the edges. I clamped it with a piece of 1" square tubing in about 5 spots down the length as I welded the top and bottom. I've got the heat turned as far down as it will go and still melt metal. I've been using one wet rag laying across the inside and another small one to quench each spot after my weld. I even tried rolling a bead around the opening to see if that would help control the warpage but still not flat. Somehow I must still be getting it too hot!!! :bang: I wonder if a different type of filler rod with a lower melting point would help? I've often noticed that when TIGing mild steel with this rod it tends to be sticky (not wanting to fully puddle) and I have to get it right on top of the tungsten to get it to melt.

Or I just need to get better at my metal working to straighten out the edges...

I think I will try some 16g for V4.0 And I do have some aluminum bar laying around that I will try for the clamping next time.

Has anyone tried that Eastwood welding heat putty?

can you list what size tungsten and filler you are using. I usually mig stuff like that. On a support piece I like to use tube then 16g to fill in. Most welds are fillet.

[Revved]

3/16 red stripe tungsten with 1/16 mild steel rod.

I do have some 1/16" red stripe tungsten I bought when I was learning on aluminum tubing but I never had luck with it.. kept melting down the tungsten before the aluminum. Perhaps I'd have better luck with it on steel?

[GregWeld]

3/16 red stripe tungsten with 1/16 mild steel rod.

I do have some 1/16" red stripe tungsten I bought when I was learning on aluminum tubing but I never had luck with it.. kept melting down the tungsten before the aluminum. Perhaps I'd have better luck with it on steel?




Remember that you must match your tungsten SIZE to the amperage you're attempting to weld with.... they're rated differently whether you're welding in AC or DC.

1/16th (red) 2% Thoriated tungsten is rated at 30 to 80 amps on AC

DC will be rated HIGHER -- but, of course, Aluminum is welded in AC

[coolwelder62]

I would listen to Greg.He has Weld in his Name.:welder:

[SuperB70]

You are using 3/16 tungsten, are you sure?

That huge stick, you dont need that big anywhere in automotive welding.

You get by every task with 1/16 (1.6mm) and 3/32 (2.4mm).

Highest amps 250A, I ever used was when welding an 3/4" 8"x10" plate to intake manifold. But not every day you fabricate a Roots-blower intake manifold.

[Revved]

You are using 3/16 tungsten, are you sure?

That huge stick, you dont need that big anywhere in automotive welding.

You get by every task with 1/16 (1.6mm) and 3/32 (2.4mm).

Highest amps 250A, I ever used was when welding an 3/4" 8"x10" plate to intake manifold. But not every day you fabricate a Roots-blower intake manifold.

Sorry... you are right... 3/32... not 3/16!!

[Sieg]

Lincoln TIG video on amperage, voltage, and speed relationship

3j-ciGVAxes

[Revved]

Great Info Sieg! Thanks!

[Mick Mc]

It's a steep learning curve.... but check another "don't" or "do" off the list.




I buy NON Chlorinated brake clean by the CASE ($1.99 a can if you catch it on sale) to shoot down inside stuff like this BEFORE welding. And either you can drill a small escape hole -- or leave the last tiny bit open - let it all cool down and go back and touch it up.



:

I learned one new thing today. thanks Greg.
Now on ward and upward...


Mick

[Revved]

/\/\/\/\/\/\

Don't remember if I threw in this .02 about the cleaning comment. Greg mentioned non-clorinated brake cleaner. I started buying acetone in gallon cans and keeping a small squeeze bottle on my welder cart. That way I have a small supply of acetone that I can use to clean things before welding. Squeeze bottle helps with more accurate delivery and less waste.

[Ketzer]

Great Info Sieg! Thanks!

X2!
Very good info. The description and demonstration of long arc length looks exactly like the problem I'm having.


Jeff-

[Sieg]

X2!
Very good info. The description and demonstration of long arc length looks exactly like the problem I'm having.


Jeff-
Hit me between the eyes too. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

I just picked up a used JMR tube notcher so I have more welding challenges and practice are on the horizon for this winter. Here's the first attempt with .75" OD 4130 tubing.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RGdgVdC/0/L/i-RGdgVdC-L.jpg

Didn't take long to notice 4130 welds much nicer than some of the junk I've been practicing with! Now I need to find a source of affordable 4130 practice scrap. That stuff is :G-Dub:

[67zo6Camaro]

Spruce Aircraft offers a scrap pack for sale. It's a bundle +-1' sections of different size 4130 tubing in different wall thickness. I have purchased some of these scrap packs for small parts and shim stock.

[Sieg]

Spruce Aircraft offers a scrap pack for sale. It's a bundle +-1' sections of different size 4130 tubing in different wall thickness. I have purchased some of these scrap packs for small parts and shim stock.
Thank Brett! I'll check them out. I just grabbed some 1-5/8 .135 mild steel scrap pieces today and notched and fit up a few practice joints tonight. Hopefully the more I practice the luckier I'll get.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thank Brett! I'll check them out. I just grabbed some 1-5/8 .135 mild steel scrap pieces today and notched and fit up a few practice joints tonight. Hopefully the more I practice the luckier I'll get.

damn, I just toss the cage scrap out, some good 6" fishies on both ends too ...i'll try to save you a bunch next time around....hurry up and get better with the alloys and move up to stainless...im starting to get the hang of it...after 90 hours of welding. :getout: I'll save some 3" 409 for you.

[Sieg]

Thanks Vince! :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

OK, yesterday and today's practice was 1.5" .120" wall round tubing.....real world stuff for a change.

Fitment and tack
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SKCGjMP/0/L/i-SKCGjMP-L.jpg

Final weld sections
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pmchVQ2/0/L/i-pmchVQ2-L.jpg

Completed piece
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nFgXGK2/0/L/i-nFgXGK2-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6mpjVLN/0/L/i-6mpjVLN-L.jpg

Interiors
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z48CMDV/0/L/i-z48CMDV-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-x3dJK2W/0/L/i-x3dJK2W-L.jpg

I'm guessing the welds got hotter than ideal so embrittlement could be an issue. Please let me know what flaws you see in my techniques.


I keep laughing at myself because when I decided I wanted to learn how to weld I totally underestimated the amount of fabrication and prep a couple stupid pieces of metal require to make a respectable finished product. Since I purchased the MIG & TIG units the amount of elementary fab equipment I've bought is silly...............

The latest time saver:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RTX3rQT/0/X2/i-RTX3rQT-X2.jpg

[GregWeld]

Well......



HAHAHAHAHAHA




Ya got to pick up the pace and move the puddle more... It looks to me like you're really barely moving -- and that's what is adding heat like crazy.



I got a great laugh out of your statement about tools to make things go better. It's so true and most people just never understand that part of the process.... they think you just watch these pro builds on here - and go home and "do it". Yeah - right.... The pros have SKILLZ and TOOLZ....

[Sieg]

Regarding fab and prep.........I don't think it's possible to have too many really nice expensive tools. :bang:

Regarding speed.........I think I'm overly fixated on weld penetration. Tomorrow I'll repeat the process and try to double the pace/space between puddles. Appears I have opposite heat issues with TIG and MIG. :sieg:

Thanks for the input.

[Ketzer]

It's so true and most people just never understand that part of the process.... they think you just watch these pro builds on here - and go home and "do it". Yeah - right.... The pros have SKILLZ and TOOLZ....

Guilty as charged. :underchair:


Jeff-

[GregWeld]

Guilty as charged. :underchair:


Jeff-




ME TOO!!!!

[Sieg]

Ya got to pick up the pace and move the puddle more... It looks to me like you're really barely moving -- and that's what is adding heat like crazy.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-KxXc8gq/0/L/i-KxXc8gq-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JX27szD/0/L/i-JX27szD-L.jpg

Getting mo bedder? :sieg:

100 amps @ 13 cfh (Miller charts says 110-140 add 10% for mild steel)

[GregWeld]

Bedder....



1 amp per .001 material is a good "gauge" --- so .120 thickness -- 120 amps


SPEED of travel has every bit as much to do with heat input as the amperage itself.... slow travel speed puts in more heat. Period. So speed is every bit as important as the amperage chosen. That's the tough part in the beginning. That's the learning curve...

[Sieg]

At this speed I feel like I'm going to have an off-track experience. :drowninga:

I need to experiment with pulsing to see if that style better suits my age and lack of talent. :sieg:

[GregWeld]

At this speed I feel like I'm going to have an off-track experience. :drowninga:

I need to experiment with pulsing to see if that style better suits my age and lack of talent. :sieg:



Don't forget a couple things --- you have a foot control -- let up on it as you weld because the heat it takes to stay going is far less than when you started the puddle.... these are small parts! Think of it as you're boiling down the freeway ---- you let up off the gas when you start to see traffic back up. Same with welding.

Also -- if you want to slow up -- THEN FOR SURE you let off the foot pedal. That foot pedal is there to use it -- you won't wear it out... HAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

Don't forget a couple things --- you have a foot control -- let up on it as you weld because the heat it takes to stay going is far less than when you started the puddle.... these are small parts! Think of it as you're boiling down the freeway ---- you let up off the gas when you start to see traffic back up. Same with welding.

Also -- if you want to slow up -- THEN FOR SURE you let off the foot pedal. That foot pedal is there to use it -- you won't wear it out... HAHAHAHAHA

The pedal isn't close to pinned......seldom if it ever is it's only momentary. :sieg:

Maybe my welder is rated like the '69 DZ motor? :D

[Sieg]

Ain't real purdy but........

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DZbSL9d/0/L/i-DZbSL9d-L.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JN3sPDs/0/XL/i-JN3sPDs-XL.jpg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

you can tell by the metal you are getting better with the heat control.

rhythm and pace will come with more practice.

[GregWeld]

you can tell by the metal you are getting better with the heat control.

rhythm and pace will come with more practice.




EGG SACK LEE!!

[Sieg]

So my lack of talent (frustration) with steel has basically left me scared to attempt aluminum :underchair: Wednesday I attempted aluminum for the first time. The box and tube are 16g 6061. I don't know why but it seems much easier for me, maybe because I can see the work area better?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HCSx3XC/0/XL/i-HCSx3XC-XL.jpg

While the beads are far from perfect it feels like a victory.......now which scotch do I reward myself with?

[GregWeld]

A real celebration would be 60 year old The Macallan in a Lalique bottle....


I still wonder how well you see the bead when you're welding steel? Versus the brighter A/C TIG of aluminum. A small thing like that will make all the difference in the world.

[GregWeld]

BTW --- On a box like that --- always weld the corners FIRST... otherwise you chase the bead to the end and all the heat is built up and it just blows the corner away.

IF you've done a bunch of welding on a "small" part like that -- let it cool way down before attempting to stitch it closed - otherwise the expanding heated air inside the container will give you fits...

[Sieg]

A real celebration would be 60 year old The Macallan in a Lalique bottle....


I still wonder how well you see the bead when you're welding steel? Versus the brighter A/C TIG of aluminum. A small thing like that will make all the difference in the world.
Send me that bottle, I'll let you know if it's any good. :whistling:

Hopefully it's better than their 18 because that Glenlivet 12 and Glenmorangie 15 smoke the Mac 18.....IMHO. :D

I too wonder how well I'm seeing on DC, it's probably not the Jackson Truesight helmet. I was running shade 9-10 on AC and typically run 7-8 on DC.

BTW --- On a box like that --- always weld the corners FIRST... otherwise you chase the bead to the end and all the heat is built up and it just blows the corner away.

IF you've done a bunch of welding on a "small" part like that -- let it cool way down before attempting to stitch it closed - otherwise the expanding heated air inside the container will give you fits...

The box is open on one side, plan is to make a lid for it.

I tacked each seam .75" in from the corners and one in the center then started the weld on the corner and paused once or twice in the runs to reposition or grind tungsten. :rolleyes: No issue with blowing the ends, I intentionally did it that way to see if I could ramp down the amperage properly. 55 amps 65 bal 200 freq (max) Argon @ 16 cfh.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

So my lack of talent (frustration) with steel has basically left me scared to attempt aluminum :underchair: Wednesday I attempted aluminum for the first time. The box and tube are 16g 6061. I don't know why but it seems much easier for me, maybe because I can see the work area better?

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HCSx3XC/0/XL/i-HCSx3XC-XL.jpg

While the beads are far from perfect it feels like a victory.......now which scotch do I reward myself with?

I noticed that too but playing with the bead on AL will make you a better steel weldor. IMHO

I usually weld 2-3 ft worth of scrap before I do a production piece.

I think it has something to do with the cleaning you get with AL. You can see it happening. Just a theory.

[stephen wilson]

2¢ from another "hobby" welder on steel tube junctions. I start with 4 good tack welds 1/2 way down the fish mouth, if that makes sense, which leaves you with 4 segments to weld. I start welding the long legs of the fish, which require the least heat, and finish with the 90° Fillet weld sections, which require more heat. You have to adjust your amps for the geometry of the joint, less for an outside joint, more for an inside corner. Also, with pieces that small, you will have to stop welding a few times to let it cool down. I don't even fully weld junctions in one shot on a full frame. It puts in too much heat, and things tend to move around more.

Visibility is also crucial. I often divide small tube joints into 1/8th's so I can reposition. You can't see the puddle if you're looking "through" the arc glare due to a bad working angle.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

2¢ from another "hobby" welder on steel tube junctions. I start with 4 good tack welds 1/2 way down the fish mouth, if that makes sense, which leaves you with 4 segments to weld. I start welding the long legs of the fish, which require the least heat, and finish with the 90° Fillet weld sections, which require more heat. You have to adjust your amps for the geometry of the joint, less for an outside joint, more for an inside corner. Also, with pieces that small, you will have to stop welding a few times to let it cool down. I don't even fully weld junctions in one shot on a full frame. It puts in too much heat, and things tend to move around more.

Visibility is also crucial. I often divide small tube joints into 1/8th's so I can reposition. You can't see the puddle if you're looking "through" the arc glare due to a bad working angle.

or just to get a better lense angle too. thanks

[Revved]

I keep seeing clear hand piece cups in pics... Is this for better visibility or do they offer some other benefit?

[GregWeld]

Visibility!


If you can't see - you can't weld....


They are, of course, gas lens cups so you've already gotten improved gas flow just by switching over to the gas lens - regardless of whether or not you're using clear cups.

[GregWeld]

Here's what we're talking about Revved....




http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-Pyrex-Cups-Kits-s/67.htm

[Vince@Meanstreets]

My welding has improved by so much since switching to a lense. Easier puddle control and much easier when working with tubing. Highly recommend if you are serious about your work.

[Sieg]

These are the two gas lens setups I use:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-265Pwxf/1/XL/i-265Pwxf-XL.jpg

The Pyrex nozzle is a little fat for inside corners at times, the Alumina nozzle looks fat but the taper allows it to get into corners without excessive tungsten stick-out.

I switched to the Alumina lens and haven't went back to the Pyrex, I need to put the Pyrex back on and see what my impressions are with a little more experience under my belt.

[GregWeld]

I think I finally see your "issue"...... the grind groves on that tungsten look like someone carved the Grand F'n Canyon on the end of that poor thing!


What grit wheel are you using boy? OMG!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think I finally see your "issue"...... the grind groves on that tungsten look like someone carved the Grand F'n Canyon on the end of that poor thing!


What grit wheel are you using boy? OMG!

wheel or do you mean curb...lol That tip must look like a Tesla lounge chair.

scott, go down to harbor freight and get yourself a small dedicated grinder with a 180-220 grit wheel on each side.

[Sieg]

I think I finally see your "issue"...... the grind groves on that tungsten look like someone carved the Grand F'n Canyon on the end of that poor thing!


What grit wheel are you using boy? OMG!
I knew you'd pick up on that........I use a finer wheel than that tip was ground with......now.

This is my Pro Tinkering grinder
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NZWxBj3/0/XL/i-NZWxBj3-XL.jpg

This is the grind it delivers:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nsdQhGB/0/XL/i-nsdQhGB-XL.jpg

The Grand Canyon..........paaalease, Sieg Fabrickashun is open 24-7.

[GregWeld]

Chuck the tungsten into a drill motor and use the drill motor to rotate the tungsten while gently holding it against the grinder wheel.... a FINE grinder wheel....


Take the super fine point of the end of it when you're done... just a teeny bit of a flat on the nose....


Grind BOTH ends of the tungsten.... that way when you F one up - you can quickly just flip it and keep on going -- you'll have TWICE AS MANY points to work with.

[GregWeld]

Technically --- you should only use a Borazon or Diamond wheel to grind tungsten.... and you're not going to find that at Harbor Freight...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Technically --- you should only use a Borazon or Diamond wheel to grind tungsten.... and you're not going to find that at Harbor Freight...

really, crap....all it says is fine. :thankyou:

ill try ebay

[Sieg]

That is a "fine" 3.5" wheel......Harbor Freight fine. :D

I've found that if I'm wearing my TIG gloves I can hold light pressure on the tungsten with one hand and spin it with the other..........can't do it smoothly with bare hands.

Regarding both ends........To quote one of my past employee's frequent statement "now why didn't I think of that?" :bang:

[Sieg]

Technically --- you should only use a Borazon or Diamond wheel to grind tungsten.... and you're not going to find that at Harbor Freight...

Technically..........Josh uses a 6" bench grinder for his tungsten to produce this:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6681425059_c04324f552_b.jpg

:sieg:

[GregWeld]

And for you non-candy ass welders... this bad boy is a must have.....


Okay --- I'm really just yanking your chain -- even I don't have one of these!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA





wFPdJ1ZJnnk#t=97

[GregWeld]

Technically..........Josh uses a 6" bench grinder for his tungsten to produce this:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7017/6681425059_c04324f552_b.jpg

:sieg:




You know this is like GOLFING.... a golfer can hit a ball with a chunk of wood 'cause he's got the stroke.


The rest of us... not so much! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sieg]

And for you non-candy ass welders... this bad boy is a must have.....


Okay --- I'm really just yanking your chain -- even I don't have one of these!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You NEED one of those!!!! :ups:

I'll arm wrestle ya for your existing POS.

They're only pocket change at $1295.

If I'm going to part with $1300 it will be for a Canon EF 35mm f1.4L lens thank you. :D