RideTech 33 VS Lamborghini

[bret]

The RideTech 33 Ford was very graciously invited to a track test with the Factory Five guys and Hotrod Magazine a few weeks ago in California at Las vegas Motor Speedway. They ran our car, a Factory Five Cobra, a Factory Five Daytona Coupe, and another Cobra replica built for Summit Racing. All these cars ran against a Lamborghini Gallardo on the road course.

Here is the video from Hotrod Unlimited:

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On the dragstrip...

The RideTech 33 ran a 11.54@ 123mph. My car had the worst 60 ft time and the best mph...by a lot! It was also the heaviest of the bunch at 2595 lbs.
The Daytona Coupe ran a 11.87@ 117 mph
The red Cobra replica ran a 11.74@ 118mph
The Summit Cobra replica ran a 11.50@ 115mph

They didn't run the Lamborghini on the dragstrip

On the road course...

The Daytona Coupe ran a 55.60 lap
The Lamborghini Gallardo LMP550 ran a 54.53 lap
The red Cobra replica ran a 55.26 lap
The RideTech 33 ran a 53.89...beat the Lambo by .6 seconds!

They didn't run the Summit Cobra on the road course.

I was not able to be there myself because I was attending a funeral that day in Indy. I think I might have been able to tune our car up even a little more I'm sure Micheal was wallowing around my my "EL Grande" sized seat in the 33...that never helps confidence or lap times. Also...the guy driving the Lambo was a driving instructor at the Exotic school there...lots of seat ime in that car and on that track. Michael, [Hotrod's test driver] had NO previous seat time in any of these cars and did an amazing job!

Very cool test! Many thanks to Dave Smith, president of Factory Five, for his monumental efforts in coordinating all this. He picked up my car right after the Del Mar Goodguys show on Thanksgiving and has been putting all this together since then. I've not seen my car since November!

Thanks as well to the people at Summit and Hotrod Magazine...VERY proud to be included. I am hearing that there will be more on all of this on the Hotrod website and in the print magazine coming up shortly.

[Sieg]

Ya gotta like that! :thumbsup:

[FETorino]

It's a Ford what chance did the Italians/Germans have?

Very cool feature Brett.

[JohnC]

Cool video...thanks for sharing. Congrats, Bret!:lateral:

John

[69x22]

That was a cool video Brett?

[eric1967]

Very cool. Thanks for posting.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Enjoyed seeing/hearing your car gettin' flogged, Bret.

That was a well produced vid, and we actually heard some healthy motors instead of music blaring over everything...they get it. :thumbsup:

[headcase]

Pardon my Ignorance on this whole subject, but as you see, my comment will look very 'generalized' knowledge.

A Ford that was made back before world war II.... going faster than a Lamborghini (modern 21st century technology) around a race track tells me the Ford, even though a Brick with Aerodynamics of Hamburger, actually 'handles' better than the Lamborghini, otherwise, it would have been slower.

Is that correct?

If so... how the heck did that car get made to handle better... as that is what I wanted to achieve with my 69 mustang. To handle as good as modern exotics.

[Finch]

If so... how the heck did that car get made to handle better... as that is what I wanted to achieve with my 69 mustang. To handle as good as modern exotics.

The Ridetech 33 is full of Ridetech parts. If you want your 69 to do the same all you have to do is open up the Ridetech catalog

[headcase]

What, that simple... no custom fabrication etc needed to increase torsional rigidity and so forth?

How do you get the down force to stick to the ground to go through corners hard like exotics?

Cant be as simple as open a catalog... If it was... why doesnt everybody just make enzo like Muscle cars.

[coolwelder62]

Awesome Bret.Those great RideTech coil over's really make a big differant's.:thumbsup:

[MattO]

What, that simple... no custom fabrication etc needed to increase torsional rigidity and so forth?

How do you get the down force to stick to the ground to go through corners hard like exotics?

Cant be as simple as open a catalog... If it was... why doesnt everybody just make enzo like Muscle cars.

They do, but the higher up the food chain you aim, the more expensive it gets. It has been documented here by Mark and Steve that muscle cars with properly modified suspension, sticky tires, and the right driver, can push well over 1g through corners.

The beauty of the age we live in is that guys with pencils behind their ears and engineering degrees on their walls have a passion for hot rods and going fast. Companies like Ridetech employ some of the best engineers around in order to design and build a product that delivers performance that FAR exceeds the factory parts.

Better aero, handling packages, powertrains, all of it is available, from a catalog. God bless :D

[wiedemab]

Brett - - just out o curiosity, has Factory Five put any thought to making some changes to the car similar to what you guys did to get it to be as capable as it is? I know you and your team put a ton of engineering, machining and fab time into the alterations to get it to your liking.

Very Cool that it smoked a Lambo!

[millertime179]

congrats! very well deserved for a great group of guys. The 33 has improved alot and i think it will be the car to beat at all the events this year. :thumbsup:

kevin miller

[bret]

The Ridetech 33 is full of Ridetech parts. If you want your 69 to do the same all you have to do is open up the Ridetech catalog

Yeah, what he said! :)

In reality..OEM manufacturers must build cars to accomomodate a huge variety of talent levels. I built the 33 to my particular taste a and talent level [whatever that might be]. Therefore I have a built in level of familiarity with my car. BUT...it wasn't me driving...it was a great driver with NO seat time in that car [for whatever that is worth].

In english...YES, I think we can spank an Lambo [or Ferrari, or Porsche, or whatever] on the track with the 33. In the overall driving experience on the road for a wide variety of uninformed drivers...who knows? Opinions [and checkbooks] rule!

My car makes ME smile. Thats all i can accomomplish!

[bret]

What, that simple... no custom fabrication etc needed to increase torsional rigidity and so forth?

How do you get the down force to stick to the ground to go through corners hard like exotics?

Cant be as simple as open a catalog... If it was... why doesnt everybody just make enzo like Muscle cars.

Opening the RideTech catalog is only the first step. I would LOVE to tell you all that all you have to do to be FAST is order the appropriate part numbers. In reality, that is only the first step. THEN...you need to learn to drive...get in LOTS of seat time...and figure out the rest of your car.

I'm thinking that in reality if I were to get in Finch's car [or him in mine] that the results would be...interesting/disappointing. We would both look like rank amatueurs until we learned exactly what that particular car was capable of.

My Factory Five 33 has a HUGE amount of custom fabrication to make it what I want it to be...but reality no more than most people do to a 69 Camaro to make it as fast as what we all expect. In short...it's a HOTROD...just like most others on this forum. Changes, tweaks, improvements [real or perceived] and refinements to produce the results that I desire. The only difference between my car and most of the others on the track [or on this forum] is the amount of time and experience I am able to devote to that end. [remember, it IS supposed to be my job!] Is it relevant to your [Camaro-Mustang-Chevelle, whatever-mobile]? I hope so. [at least that is what I am counting on!]

Direction...yes. Absolute road map...probably not.

It IS, however...still fun!

[bret]

Short version...YES, David Smith [President of Factory Five] and I have have had detailed conversations about shocks and swaybars to integrate into their production vehicles. He is a true hotrodder and racer who is always looking to improve his product.

[67zo6Camaro]

Love the shot of him warming up the tires around the road course. I can only imagine his smile :)

[bret]

Love the shot of him warming up the tires around the road course. I can only imagine his smile :)

That dude got a lot faster in that car in a shorter amount on time than I did all last summer...

I'm thinking if he had 50 laps in my car he would embarrass me by a LOT!

[headcase]

Well thank you for that. I really like that (1933?) hot rod. Looks cartoon like but still, mean. Definitely chose the right shade of paint for it.

So if people don't mind me asking, whats up with all the HOTCHKIS, XV, and others that produce Pro-Touring cars. They are not cheap by any means, 20k can go into a suspension like nothing, and still it is not what this hot-rod is doing off RideTech. Is RideTech like the 'top' of the food chain on this stuff or what.

I looked at their website. 8000 pretty much buys a Level 3 suspension setup. Through companies like Hotchkis or XV Motorsports (which I am more farmiliar with), for a full suspension package = 20,000. Something does not add up in my brain here...

[FETorino]

That dude got a lot faster in that car in a shorter amount on time than I did all last summer...

I'm thinking if he had 50 laps in my car he would embarrass me by a LOT!

50 laps he could have followed a GT2 RS:D

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel3292-3409.htm

[Stuart Adams]

Bret, very cool stuff. Looks like you enjoyed the heck out of it, life's good.

[waynieZ]

I saw the video Congratulation's for kicking some big dollar butt!

[tazzz2_ca]

Well thank you for that. I really like that (1933?) hot rod. Looks cartoon like but still, mean. Definitely chose the right shade of paint for it.

So if people don't mind me asking, whats up with all the HOTCHKIS, XV, and others that produce Pro-Touring cars. They are not cheap by any means, 20k can go into a suspension like nothing, and still it is not what this hot-rod is doing off RideTech. Is RideTech like the 'top' of the food chain on this stuff or what.

I looked at their website. 8000 pretty much buys a Level 3 suspension setup. Through companies like Hotchkis or XV Motorsports (which I am more farmiliar with), for a full suspension package = 20,000. Something does not add up in my brain here...


I don't know if the top of a food chain exists in this crowd but you're certainly in very good company when you're standing beside Ride Tech... Bret and his team are fantastic people with a great deal of talent and it shows....

[hp2]

The biggest difference....a professional driver. That isn't to say there hasn't be a bunch of research done to create a good package of geometric design for the Factory 5 and Ridetech cars, but if you noticed the in car videos, the driver had to really man handle the kit cars to get those lap times out of them. The flip side to the Lambo was that the in car camera showed that the driver made wheeling it around the course look like a cake walk. Does the '33 handle better than all of my cars, probably. But it has had a lot more work and attention given to it than all my cars combined. It should be fast.

Another factor in all of this, the Lambo has to meet current Federal crash test mandates, so it is saddled with a lot of safety gear that the kit cars do not have to meet because of their perceived/registration age. This means the kit cars cars can be built extremely light, I don't think any of them were over 3000 pounds, so they all have very favorable power to weight ratios that allow them to close up a lot of the performance gap against the Italian's power and design.

As to why Hotchkis or XV are so much more expensive...I'm assuming based on your prior Mopar experince, its simple economics. XV concentrates solely on mopars, and if you are buying Gen 1 Camaro parts, Hotchkis is not nearly as expensive as they are for any their Mopar parts. Remember, one year of Camaro production is equal to all 5 years of Challenger and Cuda production combined. Then you take the mopar segment and figure 50% of that is stock restoration, 45% of that is drag racing, then only 5% of all those would even consider handling upgrades. That boils down to probably a 10:1 ratio of parts that can be sold for a Camaro vs a Mopar. Your Mustang is actually going to come in somewhat in the middle of those as there are more handling Mustangs than Mopars, but not nearly as many as there are Camaros. When you have to amortize your production costs over ten times fewer units, your per unit cost has to go up for you to break even. For Hotchkis, they are replacing a number of the factory parts with some re-engineered components. XV, well hell, they redesigned the whole damn thing and there is not a stock Mopar part left the system anywhere. That is a HUGE engineering expense.

Now Ridetech prices, they actually are very comparable from make to make and looking at the Level 2 systems, Mustang, Camaro, and Mopar are all actually within $900 of each other with the Chevy being most expensive, but it probably needed the most redesign effortof teh three. Stock 1st Gen Camaro geometry sucks, bad. I notice there is no level 3 system for a mopar. I'd allude this narrowing of the price gap by their ability to keep the key, expensive parts of the system more universal in nature and therefore spread the cost across a greater range of products. By doing this, you only need to make the model specific brackets for each kit. BTW, the front of mopar systems only adds the shockwave shock and tubular uper arms. It still uses the torsion bar set up so you are actually buying a pair of $900 shocks for the front end in the mopar kit. Compared to everyone else you mentioned, that means Ridetech's Mopar kit is actually one the most expensive kits for the engineering received.

That isn't to say that Ridetech parts aren't good. They are. Very good in fact. They certainly are one of the more engaged manufacturers with making classics drive well, and for that I applaud their efforts, even though I will probably not ever use their products. But I tend to havedifferent requirements than most others on here.

All IMO, which with a $1.95, will get you a cup of coffee at Dunkin.

[Flash68]

That isn't to say that Ridetech parts aren't good. They are. Very good in fact. They certainly are one of the more engaged manufacturers with making classics drive well, and for that I applaud their efforts, even though I will probably not ever use their products. But I tend to havedifferent requirements than most others on here.



Curious. What are your requirements?

[headcase]

Thanks for that Tony.

LIke ^ he said, what are your requirements? Would be interesting to hear.

[hp2]

I typically use my cars in rule restricted environments that do not allow some of the radical changes in suspension engineering done by some of these companies.

SCCA stock class rules are probably the most restrictive of the bunch. While their street touring and street prepared are a little looser, many "pro-touring" type suspension systems are modified so greatly from OEM that they would put you in a modified catagory against dedicated track cars. While that certainly would be intersting to run against real race cars with my street car, showing up at an event to get my butt kicked every race doesn't sound like much fun after the first weekend. Even with some of the latitude in the NASA programs, almost every class I would run with prohibits the ability to do in car adjustments of suspension controls that can be accomplished with the Shockwave systems. In some cases I can move things around a little bit to improve angles and motion, but even then I don't have unlimited car budgets to pick up top shelf everything.

Now, for Goodguys autocross where the only real rule is a 200 treadwear tire, then why not try to maximize everything your wallet will allow. If you are trying to build a car for the Optima Ultimate competitions, then you'd better step it up.

[barrrf]

Well that was the most awesome thing Ive seen to date here.

Well done.