hello from True Forged wheels

[Mike@TF]

hey guys just wanted to introduce us..

I am mike with true forged wheels i am the sales rep. Wanted to say hello and let you guys know i am here to help put some nice wheels on your rides:thumbsup:

I will do a nice big intro thread with some pics of a few pro touring rides(few magazines cars) we have done wheels for and other cars also in a day or so.. We are a custom forged wheel company so can do wheels for pretty much ANY vehicle in whatever size,offset and backspacing needed for the perfect fit and have ALOT of finish options!!! Wheels can be 2piece(no assmebly bolts) or 3piece(assembly bolts).

3piece sizes range from 18-26s from 7-14in widths with all the .5 increments between

2piece sizes 15-26s from 8-15in widths


Hope to be a big assest to the site and to alot of members builds. Also hope to learn alot on the pro touring side..We have done wheels for quiet a few mustangs,camaros,gto,oldsmobile,etc. And hope to increase that gallery!!!!

thanks guys if you have any questions please feel free to PM me, call,txt,email whatever is easiest for you..check out our website and we have ALOT more pics on our facebook..


www.trueforgedwheels.com
https://www.facebook.com/true.forged

[Sieg]

Can you design something similar to an Intro for this?

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Toterhome/file-34.jpg

[Mike@TF]

Can you design something similar to an Intro for this?

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Toterhome/file-34.jpg

we are acutally in the process of designing a few custom cut dually/semi wheels!!! will keep you posted if interested let me know.. Will have powdercoat options also besides just doing all polished like most of the competition:thumbsup:

[Bryce]

what are the weights?

[Mike@TF]

what are the weights?

Weights vary.. it all depends on size,width,brake cut,design,finishes

[Bryce]

What is the lightest you can build a 17x8 with 5" BS and a 17x9.5 with 6.5" BS?

[carbuff]

I clicked on the link to your website, and within about 2 minutes I gave up. I only tried this in Firefox, so I don't know if it's a browser issue or a site layout issue, but the menu mechanism on the left hand side drove me nuts.

[Mike@TF]

I clicked on the link to your website, and within about 2 minutes I gave up. I only tried this in Firefox, so I don't know if it's a browser issue or a site layout issue, but the menu mechanism on the left hand side drove me nuts.

Im sorry about that man..

to make the tabs easier for now.. click on the gallery link on the left side and the drop down menu will stay down for you to choose your options.Hope that helps!!!!

if you see anything you would like a quote for let me know!!!

like stated in my other thread we do offer stepped lip wheels from 15-20in sizes.. :D

[Tweaked Zed]

Hi Mike,

I just emailed you for prices for a set of Chicanes, polished lip, and anthracite or brushed centers.

18x12, 5.5 BS
18x9.5, 6.5 BS

I agree, your website is brutal. But I do like what I've seen so far for wheel choices. Hope you can help me in my search for the perfect wheel!

Bryce

[Mike@TF]

Hi Mike,

I just emailed you for prices for a set of Chicanes, polished lip, and anthracite or brushed centers.

18x12, 5.5 BS
18x9.5, 6.5 BS

I agree, your website is brutal. But I do like what I've seen so far for wheel choices. Hope you can help me in my search for the perfect wheel!

Bryce

no problem man i emailed you back!!!!

[Stovebolter]

"I will do a nice big intro thread with some pics of a few pro touring rides(few magazines cars) we have done wheels for and other cars also in a day or so.. We are a custom forged wheel company so can do wheels for pretty much ANY vehicle in whatever size,offset and backspacing needed for the perfect fit "

Mike,

Are you still going to post up some customer pictures?

Thanks,
David

[Stovebolter]

What is the perk of running the stepped lips? Strength? I'm just not seeing the love with this design.

I assume it the same as a soft lip only reversed?

Mike,

Just sent you an email. I've decided on the Competitions.

Thanks,
David

[Mike@TF]

What is the perk of running the stepped lips? Strength? I'm just not seeing the love with this design.

I assume it the same as a soft lip only reversed?

Mike,

Just sent you an email. I've decided on the Competitions.

Thanks,
David

:thumbsup:

[Stovebolter]

Any news on when they'll have my wheels machined? Anticipation is killing me. Lol.

David

[Stovebolter]

Just wondering because the charge posted to my account on April 9, 2013.

[markss28]

So any word on the wheels? I'd like to how they came out and how they look on ur ride.

[Stovebolter]

So any word on the wheels? I'd like to how they came out and how they look on ur ride.

Nothing yet Mark. I'll let everyone know as soon as I know. I threw a bit of a curve ball in the order without realizing it. 4 weeks ago, I assume my order was up, I changed the design. Nothing else. No size or bs changes. For some reason they told me I missed out on the group of 18" wheels to be machined due to changing design, and now have to wait in line, 19's 20's 22's etc, for them to get back to 18's. So, what do you guys think? Is someone pulling my chain?

How long does it typically take to get Forgeline or Rushforth wheels? I'm considering counting my loses, moving forward, and calling Jason or one of the guys at Forgeline.

David

[Rick D]

:rolleyes: what is their feedback from other customers?? Did you search them before you bought from them?

4 weeks for Forgeline from what I've heard! It sounds like they are the middle man for the wheels or they have them built by another company???

Are they 3 piece wheels or??

[Stovebolter]

Too add salt to the wound seems since I don't own a Mustang (use to) I wasn't entitled to the sale they were running at the time my deposit was placed. JFYI, I was quoted $3600 for 18x9.5 and 18x12's without special options. And then there is this advertisement at another forum with a $1200 difference. May have been the difference in a 2 piece and 3 piece wheel?.........lol :G-Dub: :G-Dub: :G-Dub:

"the annual tax season sale is back again.

in addition to the svtp member discount you get an additional $100 off your purchase. you just have to mention it to get it

prices include shipping within the 48 states. Canada is about $150 to $200 more.

the standard finish IS polished finish.

17s starting at $1900 SHIPPED

18s starting at $2400 SHIPPED

19s starting at $2600 SHIPPED

20s starting at $2800 SHIPPED

21s starting at $3150 SHIPPED

22s starting at $3150 SHIPPED

24s starting at $3550 SHIPPED

26s starting at $5000 SHIPPED


DRAG Packs:

15/15, 15/16, 16/15, 16/16 starting at $1700 shipped

17/15 OR 17/16 starting at $1800 shipped.

17/17 starting at $1900 shipped

18/16 for 2007-2012 GT500 and Brembo equipped 5.0s starting at $2050 shipped

18/18 for 2013 GT500 starting at $2400 shipped

our 15s can come in as narrow as 4" wide but you need reallllly small racing brakes to run them.

16" and up can be custom narrowed to 5.5" wide

SALE ENDS APRIL 15th at Midnight PST. just need to get your 50% deposit in by then
"

[Stovebolter]

:rolleyes: what is their feedback from other customers?? Did you search them before you bought from them?

4 weeks for Forgeline from what I've heard! It sounds like they are the middle man for the wheels or they have them built by another company???

Are they 3 piece wheels or??

Rick,

They do make their own wheels. I researched the hell out of them. They primarily cater to the Mustang guys. I personally saw them on a couple of GT500's at a show in Tulsa and they are top notch top quality 3 piece wheels. Guess I should've ordered them for a Mustang? :bang:

David

[Stovebolter]

Wow Ron. You got me there. Your a better detective that I. Lol. Well, we will see what happens. I dropped a couple threads at the SVT forum as well to see what they think.

With the peak of hot and humid weather upon me here in Arkansas, looks like this may be a slow going build. Lol. I didn't want to start a build thread until I got all of my parts. Afraid I'd put a curse on my project. I do finally have the entire True Turn system in hand with a set of TQ shocks ready for install. Also have had the Z06 stoppers in hand from Tobin for a while now. 14's front, 13.6's rear. Just waiting on wheels. Once they are here I'll order a Moser floater.

Thanks,
David

[markss28]

Ive waited 6-7 weeks for a set of Boyds and they werent forged wheels. If your paying 3600 for that size of wheel I think that a pretty good price. Most companies charge about 1000 a rim for that size. I say if its been more than 6-7 weeks id check up on them every week to keep them honest.

[Lil-G]

They are definitely big with the SVT guys. Seems like Steve does a better job keeping up with the forums over there than the guy does over here.

They have a great reputation over there, and a ton of the members have their wheels. A few guys have even helped them develop new designs.

[Mike@TF]

We actually do alot of private labeling for companies we cant mention

[Mike@TF]

They are definitely big with the SVT guys. Seems like Steve does a better job keeping up with the forums over there than the guy does over here.

They have a great reputation over there, and a ton of the members have their wheels. A few guys have even helped them develop new designs.

Thats where steve started and we are big in the mustang community. I am on here reading post alot actually. Trying to learn alot of the brake companies and sizes. So much varies with pro touring cars its not like a mustang. It doesnt happen over night. Its acutally alot to keep up with and try to learn with so many variations,sizes,and cars no 2 are the same. So while he has 1 mustang forum i have quite a few other forums to keep up with:thumbsup:

[Mike@TF]

Rick,

They do make their own wheels. I researched the hell out of them. They primarily cater to the Mustang guys. I personally saw them on a couple of GT500's at a show in Tulsa and they are top notch top quality 3 piece wheels. Guess I should've ordered them for a Mustang? :bang:

David

Dave you know how i feel about the mustang thing lol.. Also i shot you a email back.

Your wheels are cut and off to our custom powdercoater.

Dave wheels took a little due to a machine going down and really setting us back a little and also we where waiting on a few more specs for the brakes i believe which he did get to us as soon as he could. I promised him wheels will be perfect and have apologized for the little longer wait issue and will throw in a few things because of that. But i assured him it will be well worth the wait and he will not be upset about anything when he receive the wheels and he knows i hold my world and value my customers and do everything i can to make a situation right:thumbsup:

Hoping when everybody sees his wheels will motivate them to give us a chance on that nice project.

And yes dave you received a nice discount also:poke:

[garickman]

There was a thread about this more than 5 years ago.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=14137

And here is some info from the owner just after the company started in 2007

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/pics-videos-buffet-149/396287-true-forged-now-authorized-svtp-vendor-pics-inside.html

Looks like they have a pretty good reputation though.

[Stovebolter]

I'm looking forward to getting my greasy paws on these. I'll get some pictures up of the wheels themselves and a shot of them on the car. Of coarse it'll be a frontal shot :censored:. Going to take a while to get the rear ordered, shipped, and installed. Im a garage built enthusiast. I do all of my own work. Paint, fab, welding, interior, etc. i just couldnt stand someone else working on my car. Ask my son. I wont let him touch it and he's just as picky as me. :lol: And the front is going to be dependent on the nice warm muggy weather we get in Arkansas in July and August. Lol.

David

[markss28]

So did u ever get these? Would like to see some pics.

[dons'67]

Hello Mike (your PM is full),

I'm looking to do wheels this year on my 67 Camaro, below is what i'm looking for - how much shipped to 14450 and how long would it take to get them? I'm new to lateral-g but have been on pro-touring for years (juat a garage built dailt driver with some upgrades along the way)

Don

Also any advise is always welcome.

Looking for your Competition Wheels design
either Polished with Black Chrome for whole wheel or flat back
17x8" front with 5.00 BS
17 x 9.5 back with 5.50 BS

Thank you,

Don

[Stovebolter]

So did u ever get these? Would like to see some pics.

All I will say is my experience has been much less than desirable! Good luck!

I'll let everone know if they correct my problem.

[FIFTY-FIVE]

All I will say is my experience has been much less than desirable! Good luck!

I'll let everone know if they correct my problem.

Stovebolter,

I'm actually finishing up my deal with Steve @ TF, just sent final payment for the wheels today. They actually sent me a front and a rear to test fit so I could make sure everything is good with fitment. I've dealt with Steve through 2 different deals and can tell you he's a good guy. Mike @ TF has a good rep over at SVTP as well, but I've never dealt with him personally. If you'd like to PM some info about your headache I will see if there is anything I can do to help and see what's going on for you.

Here is what they built for me...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k308/O5STI/dads543_zps0e499baa.jpg (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/O5STI/media/dads543_zps0e499baa.jpg.html)

[Stovebolter]

PM sent.

Blown time lines, finish issues, made wrong size, and now an out of round wheel. Charge posted to my bank account on April 5th. I finally get the front wheels yesterday Aug 27th. I belive that is over 18 weeks now.

We'll see how timely they are at correcting it. I hate that I wasted vacation time to get tires mounted. I believe that agrevates me the most. Lol.

Do any of you guys to get custom wheels that are out of round when they hit your door? I might expect that out of a set of ARE's etc. I never had these issues with any of the sets of Weld racing wheels Ive ordered over the years. Back in early 90's I ordered a set of Draglites in 15x15. At that time I believe they were considered custom because it was out of the normal scope for sizes. I was more or less told that my issues today were part of the custom world. It was explained to me by owner that if this were a custom motor I might have to pull it multiple times before getting it right. We are talking wheels with specifics given. Width, offset diameter, finish, 3.07 register, big brake....etc etc.

And they keep trying to say the time line is my fault for changing wheel design before they even had my wheels on the machine.

Am I dreaming here guys?

I have every email correspondence.

[Ron in SoCal]

As you laid it out, not your fault IMO Steve. You ordered, you paid and now the issues and excuses arise (an out of round wheel? Even if true, seriously? Ever heard of a runout measurement/QA process?). Not a good sign and i hope it gets worked out to your satisfaction soon.

OTOH, I don't feel sorry for you taking time off to get your tires mounted. Sounds like a good day to me :lol:

[Stovebolter]

I just sent the last check. Sure hope this goes well.

Lol Ron. He suggested that I should do this on the weekend instead. He didnt feel sorry for me either. Lol.

[camcojb]

I just sent the last check. Sure hope this goes well.

Lol Ron. He suggested that I should do this on the weekend instead. He didnt feel sorry for me either. Lol.
Let me know how this works out.

[Stovebolter]

I will Jody. Thanks.

Let me know how this works out.

[Stovebolter]

When it rains it pours guys. Just tried mounting the rear wheels on the 9". They machined it for Chevrolet register so obviously they wont go over the center register. Its all in my email to Steve (owner), Mike (sales rep), and our admin Jody. Asked for Ford register.

I really would like my money back. I really like those Budnik G series Tungstons. Even if they aren't 3 piece. :)

David

[Stovebolter]

Ok. I give credit when credit is due. Mike is having new centers made and the correct bore machined for all four wheels and having them powder coated. I will install the centers. Also he is sending a return label for the out of round wheel which I will send back for repair once I have the True Turn suspension installed. Maybe tomorrow. Still not what I would call the greatest scenario, but, they are taking care of me.

David

[novajess1972]

I really wish these outcomes were more positive. These guys are fairly close to me and I would love to have some wheels built for my Chevelle and be able to pick them up once complete.

[Stovebolter]

Got 2nd set of centers. They sent them without new hardware.....bolts and nuts to mount center to hoop. Do you guys think I should use the original bolts or demand new ones? I was worried about rust on edges from to many uses with a 12 point socket on the bolt head. And bolt stretch?

Aside from that problem.....the finish on the wheel centers are absolutely horrible. Dust, mottling in the metallic, marred spots, and some obvious deep scuffs between base coat silver and topcoat bronze. Also uneven coats. Im more that a little disturbed about all of this. I can't believe they would even send these to me like this.

Now soak this in everyone and think about the fact that money posted from my bank account on April 5th. I remember because its a family members birthday.

And I still don't have my center caps!!!

Uuuggh! I use to love this hobby.

[Stovebolter]

What the heck. I'll throw in a few pictures. Dust.

[Stovebolter]

Scuffs.

[Stovebolter]

Some marring.

[Stovebolter]

And how about a little bark?

[Stovebolter]

Some more dust?

[Stovebolter]

And more dust?

[Stovebolter]

A fish eye or two?

[Stovebolter]

And uneven coats on all but one wheel?

[Stovebolter]

This one actually looks great!

[Rick D]

Well that sucks!!

I guess at this point wouldn't it be easier to just get the center redone yourself?? I know you are out the org money but I sure wouldn't let them try it again :shakehead: and I'm sure they wouldn't do anything for you anyway? Just have them glass beaded and hen paint them yourself or your painter do it but I know I could do a better job with my eyes closed!!

[Stovebolter]

Honestly Rick, my son has only sprayed three cars as of today and his full paint jobs look better than these centers. That's in a dirty shop without a down draft/up draft booth.

[Stovebolter]

Rick, they just offered to refund me the finish work, but I would have to have them finished locally. Problem I have with that is if I have someone bead blast them, and they mess up the machine work on the center, it becomes my problem entirely. I paid for a new set of wheels and was told one of the perks was I could choose my finish (custom colors) for an additional price, which has been paid in full.

I did verify the center bore has been machined correctly this time around. So I just have a crappy finish.

I explained to Mike that in my opinion, if I were the owner, with a customer with so many mistakes made on thier order, I would start from scratch at my expense, make a new set of wheels to spec. I would personally supervise the entire process of this order. I would refund the customer the expense of mounting, balancing, and the removal of tires. There is no way the customer would have to disassemble and reassemble the centers. The customer paid for new wheels. They should get new wheels with good run out, proper machining, and a nice, clean, even finish. And the paint on the custom etched center caps would match the wheels. Then I would send at my expense a RMA from FedEx for the original faulty wheels. My customer would not be out any more time.

I was even promised new hardware but never got it. Still dont have center caps. Im very tired of the promises. I just want my product or a full refund including cost of mounting, balancing, and tire removal.

I just don't know anymore. Im still trying to process all of this madness.

[camcojb]

Poor quality from a company that I've heard does very nice work normally. No idea how that passed quality control.

[Enzo Damico]

Wow,came close to ordering a set a chicanes for my camaro.18 weeks is crazy!

[Stovebolter]

Unfortunately it will be much more than 18 weeks now. I still don't have a usable product.

[Vortech404]

Damn that stinks!

Personally I would just want my money back. Just letting those wheels
leave the factory looking like that shows they don't take pride in their work.
I bet you could order some Forgelines and get them quicker than it takes them to fix their mess.

Good luck
John

[Stovebolter]

The real question is.......will these guys redeem themselves and bring back thier good name or continue beating this dead horse. :beathorse

My wife said Im too patient. I told her that is a quality she should be happy I have. Lol.

[qnitro]

Its funny how all the sudden you dont hear or see a reply back to your thread from them.. Forgeline and Rushforth are the best out there.. After your experience I would steer clear

[Enzo Damico]

Zak from boze Forged Hell of a nice guy,order wheel from him 2weeks ago,and asked if possible to get them done in two weeks for a SCCA event coming up,got the call tonight they will ship tomorrow.Those are the people I like to give return bussiness too.For Truforged to do that is BS! My bussiness that I do,if some one complaines I will give them the kitchen sink if I have to,Bad karma spreads a lot faster these days.So hopefully they will resolve or refund something back.I sure this post will make someone stay away,they fore they will loose more in the end.

[tones2SS]

The real question is.......will these guys redeem themselves and bring back thier good name or continue beating this dead horse. :beathorse
My wife said Im too patient. I told her that is a quality she should be happy I have. Lol.

I applaud your patience very much.
If it were me,......I wouldn't let the seller get a second chance. But,...that's just me. lol
As for True Forged wheels, I see and read nothing but great things about them on SVTperformance, which I know was brought up already. I know quality is quality, but it is human to error and I "assume" that human error was the case in the quality inspection.
I hope you get your problem solved soon. Good luck.

[Stovebolter]

I'm burning another vacation day tomorrow to get the tires unmounted and shipped back. Please understand guys (Ron :) ), Walmart and Tire World are the only places around here that does this sort of work on the weekend and I don't trust them with these wheels. So, I have to take a day off to do this on a weekday because the place I trust isn't open on Saturday. I would rather have spent that time with my kids on their Christmas vacation. Oh well.

They are going to make another stab at this. We'll see what happens and how long it takes.

David

[Swain]

Kinda strange since a lot of these wheels names are all made by the same manufacture. Did you just send the centers back to be rebuilt. Did they just re use them and open the center bore than bead blast ur centers instead of chemical strip them like they should be done. I would of charged the card back

[qnitro]

Swain, I am really digging the new G series wheels.. I might have to pick up a set :) I have you steering wheels in all 3 of my old school cars

[Swain]

Swain, I am really digging the new G series wheels.. I might have to pick up a set :) I have you steering wheels in all 3 of my old school cars


Awesome let me know and I'll get you a great deal. Send me interior shots if you have them. Looking for new pictures for our new catalog :thumbsup:

[Rod P]

Swain, I am really digging the new G series wheels.. I might have to pick up a set :) I have you steering wheels in all 3 of my old school cars

Nitro! you're right! I have never looked at their rims!!!!! DAMN:confused18: those are cool, well done Mr Swain

[will69camaro]

SVTP has good things to say but a local Houston board member went through hell on the wheels he got for his project. I know it took months to get them right.

[Stovebolter]

The loss of work stinks, and the loss of sleep, and the loss of time. But the one thing that really aggrevates me is the unfullfilled promises each time a mistake was made. I was promised a better price because I found the huge discount (tax sale) over on SVTPerformance which was going on long after I was quoted the price. When it came right down to it instead they decided they wasn't going to charge me extra for custom paint. Which was suppose to be covered under the original quoted price. 'Don't worry Dave......we'll take care of you!'. Then I was promised some real nice long open end locking lug nuts as an added bonus for my next frustration. For some reason I recall something said about Gorilla. 'Don't worry Dave......we'll take care of you!' Instead they sent me some short standard opened end lug nuts......cheap and cheesy. Then I was promised new wheel hardware if I was going to assemble the centers myself. The next set of centers came without hardware. Was told to reuse the original which may be fine but that wasn't what I was promised.

Then there is my loss of work. 2 burned vacation days worth double time equates to over $900 in lost benefits. If I knew I was moving forward it would be a non issue.......but here we are. Lol.

Im sure I'll think of more but as insignificant and silly as these things are......they were promised none the less.

David

[Stovebolter]

For time line purposes, the RMA's for the wheels are complete, boxes labeled, and sitting at our FedEx Ground terminal at this time. I just dropped them off with the manager.

David

[Vortech404]

David,
I hope this gets resolved for you soon. You have some serious patience bro.
Not sure why you feel like you owe this guy 1 more shot like 4 shots ago though. FETorino just got his set of Formula43 wheels in 4-5 weeks including shipping! I would give this guy a week than I would leave the wheels there and get my money back.

This guy is killing your family time by having you blow vaction time to mount tires 10 times. jeez

Good luck
John

[Stovebolter]

Another timeline. Wheel return (RMA) was received by True Forged today 10/03/13.

[Ron in SoCal]

Hang in there SB. Hopefully they arrive home soon and correct.

[FETorino]

David,
I hope this gets resolved for you soon. You have some serious patience bro.
Not sure why you feel like you owe this guy 1 more shot like 4 shots ago though. FETorino just got his set of Formula43 wheels in 4-5 weeks including shipping! I would give this guy a week than I would leave the wheels there and get my money back.

This guy is killing your family time by having you blow vaction time to mount tires 10 times. jeez

Good luck
John

Yes I did. Worth every penny. Do yourself a favor just get the $$ back and order a set. Life is to short. :cheers:

http://www.formula43.com/rad14.html

[Stovebolter]

Well it's officially been anther 4 weeks as of today.

Update. Centers were sent off to powder coater and came back with wrong finish. Being sent back again. :-/

David

[Stovebolter]

Does anyone have a set of 18x12's with a 6" bs that I can borrow so I can get this rear supsension made? Before it gets cold. My shop isnt heated. Lol.

Joking.

David

[Stovebolter]

Well I got my wheels. Runout is very good. Finish is great! Fits as expected. Still waiting on center caps but I'm sure they will get here. I don't have the rears under the car yet. But I'm sure they will fit. I envy you SOCAL men. Lol. Too darn cold to mess with the car right now.

Dave

[Stovebolter]

Got my center caps in February 2014. Just saying all is good now.

[latoracing]

Fitting some True Forged Sleepers to a '93 Mustang Coupe for my friend. He had no problem getting these 18 x 12's, along with the fronts. They were very close to the lead time given to him. They have very good quality, and the valve stem is pretty trick. I think he ordered them direct from True Forged. Price was in line with most custom 3 piece wheels as well.

46931

[Rod P]

Thats a really tough website to use/navigate :bang: I am looking for wheels for Plain Jane to change her up this year

[johnzSS]

damn good looking wheels!

[tones2SS]

Fitting some True Forged Sleepers to a '93 Mustang Coupe for my friend. He had no problem getting these 18 x 12's, along with the fronts.

A Fox Body with some wide meats in the rear wheel well is awesome.

[camcojb]

Since the original poster hasn't been on the site since August, and is no longer a sponsor I think we can put this one to rest.