About Door Bars.

[XLexusTech]

Anyone have any opinions about Door Bars? I am having a cage built and I wanted to look for advice. I dont want the 45% divide coning down.. its too much of a cage for a street car.. but if I have them I want them to server the purpose they were intended to do...... I like the style used on the Tiger cage but wasn't sure if they actually provided protection of it they sere just for looks.

[Vortech404]

TigerCage is NOT currently certified for racing in NHRA or SCCA sanctioning bodie just so you know.

I suggest you take a look at the cage rules at www.nhra.com for some info on cages, driveshaft loops etc...

later
John

[bret]

Are you drag racing the car?

[XLexusTech]

i would like to comply with SCCA and for NHRA i expect to be above 10 seconds were it starts to get strict... last i remember for 10.90 you only needed a DS loop, secured axles and a simple 4 point rollbar

[WILWAXU]

I had a removable door bar in my 2001 Formula. It met all the safety requirements and when removed didn't get in the way.

Careful though.. meeting NHRA requirements is a slippery slope. Once you have a roll bar.. you then need 4 point harnesses.

[Shmoov69]

I got removable door and "back" bars in my Camaro. I got the bolt in style that takes two countersunk Allen bolts on each joint. It is awesome and stiffened it up A TON!! After seeing Tim's nova pop the quarter panel when his pin style came loose at the MMCC a few years ago, I decided to go with a more rigid style.
https://www.ballisticfabrication.com/mobile/product.asp?itemid=1467
:thumbsup:

[Steve Chryssos]

Unless you're building a 10.90 car -- which is doubtful -- run a four point bar. If you want more protection, add a halo and a-pillar bars through the top of the dash, then connect them with a sill bar 1" above the door sill. Unless you can bring the power AND the traction, forget the NHRA guide.

[Blake Foster]

i would like to comply with SCCA and for NHRA i expect to be above 10 seconds were it starts to get strict... last i remember for 10.90 you only needed a DS loop, secured axles and a simple 4 point rollbar

with out the side bar crossing between your shoulder and elbow it will NOT be NHRA legal.
and SCCA is totally different. you need to check the class rules. but either way it will be a PAIN for street driving.
i have my door bars down low same height as the seat pad. so not legal for any class but i figured with the full cage it may help some what in a frontal or side impact. it is still a PITA to get in and out.

[Bryce]

It is hard to build a cage with door bars that meet all of the regulations of every sanctioning body. Pick the one you will race the most and build it per those rules.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I had a spring loaded swing out bar on my Sportsman car. The lock was made by Alstons and was legal to 8.50. Works better than a pin.


http://www.alstonracing.com/Catalog/ALSTON%202013%2011-9a.pdf
top of page 7.

[syborg tt]

Unless you're building a 10.90 car -- which is doubtful -- run a four point bar. If you want more protection, add a halo and a-pillar bars through the top of the dash, then connect them with a sill bar 1" above the door sill. Unless you can bring the power AND the traction, forget the NHRA guide.

I'm not a fan of street cars with "Halo Bar" in fact in most states they are not legal. Also 4 & 5 point restraints are not legal and you are personally liable for the passenger if you don't use DOT approved seat belts.

Here is the main problem. If you get in a car accident and hit your head on the bar there is a pretty good chance your going to end up dead. Of course you can always drive with a helmet on but that get's hot.

Here is what we did in the Mini-Truck

http://syborgtwinturbo.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Build/2006_03_10_027.jpg

http://syborgtwinturbo.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Build/2006_03_10_023.jpg

http://syborgtwinturbo.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Build/2006_03_10_020.jpg

DOT Approved Seat belts from Seatbelt Planet

http://syborgtwinturbo.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Build/2009%2011-05%20Sema%20301.jpg

believe it or not the buckel is the part that makes them DOT approved.

http://syborgtwinturbo.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Build/2009%2011-29%20%20Recovery%20Room_3162.jpg

don't forget you need to plan a headrest also to prevent whiplash

http://syborgtwinturbo.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Build/2010%2002-28%20Recovery%20Room_3825.jpg

[Flash68]

With my removable steering wheel I can get in and out of this easily.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/DSC_0141_zpsa9596bdd.jpg

[wiedemab]

Here is the main problem. If you get in a car accident and hit your head on the bar there is a pretty good chance your going to end up dead. Of course you can always drive with a helmet on but that get's hot.


I assume this statement is referring to the fact that these bars are typically the closest thing for someone to come into contact with, which I understand.

Question though - is there a significant difference in contacting the downbar and contacting the a-pillar.

I'm just trying to understand all of these potential concerns as I plan a future build that will likely have some sort of cage.

[Steve Chryssos]

My wife's throat impacted the 68's padded dash. It almost killed her a lot. Her throat swelled up and she had to be intubated on site.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that direct impacts with plastic covered sheet metal surfaces such as dashes, doors, and A-pillars are any safer than properly placed roll bar tubing with the correct padding and five point harnesses.

I re-engineered the seat brackets to lower the seats for adequate clearance and we ALWAYS wear the five point harnesses to resist vertical movement.

Needlepoint is dangerous also. Those needles are sharp and the yarn might accidentally get wrapped around your fingers and interrupt circulation. :confused59:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

My wife's throat impacted the 68's padded dash. It almost killed her a lot. Her throat swelled up and she had to be intubated on site.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that direct impacts with plastic covered sheet metal surfaces such as dashes, doors, and A-pillars are any safer than properly placed roll bar tubing with the correct padding and five point harnesses.

I re-engineered the seat brackets to lower the seats for adequate clearance and we ALWAYS wear the five point harnesses to resist vertical movement.

Needlepoint is dangerous also. Those needles are sharp and the yarn might accidentally get wrapped around your fingers and interrupt circulation. :confused59:

Proper design and anticipation for the unknown is the key to building a safe cage. Im sure if we included sewing needles in our custruction we would also include a thimble large enough to fit over our heads. :D

[Steve Chryssos]

Agreed. There is assumed risk either way with 40 year old cars. I get the argument: "Halo bars and a-pillar bars are closer to occupants than a-pillars, window frames and door structures. And those bars are hard." Got it.

On paper, that argument is rock solid. But go ahead and tape paper to your tires and start driving. The paper comes off in, like, a half a block. :lmao:

In reality, an impact or rollover can move A-pillars, doors and other sheet metal structures closer to you. ....And a-pillars, doors, roof sheetmetal -- and even door glass and trees are more than hard enough to scramble your brains on impact. :bang:

Cage design matters as does the right seats. I have, however, eliminated my back seat because I could not envision a safe solution for rear occupants.

That's just my perspective, of course. Safe is a new car with 17 air bags that remains parked in the garage. Everything else is assumed risk.

[Greg from Aus]

Agreed. There is assumed risk either way with 40 year old cars. I get the argument: "Halo bars and a-pillar bars are closer to occupants than a-pillars, window frames and door structures. And those bars are hard." Got it.

On paper, that argument is rock solid. But go ahead and tape paper to your tires and start driving. The paper comes off in, like, a half a block. :lmao:

In reality, an impact or rollover can move A-pillars, doors and other sheet metal structures closer to you. ....And a-pillars, doors, roof sheetmetal -- and even door glass and trees are more than hard enough to scramble your brains on impact. :bang:

Cage design matters as does the right seats. I have, however, eliminated my back seat because I could not envision a safe solution for rear occupants.

That's just my perspective, of course. Safe is a new car with 17 air bags that remains parked in the garage. Everything else is assumed risk.

Very well put Steve.

The biggest risk you will take is hopping in the car, bars or no bars, it's the riskiest thing we do every day.

Greg