66 Nova SS Project [Archive] - Lateral-g Forums

byndbad914

01-29-2013, 09:59 PM

I built the main frame section over my holiday break at the end of the year. Square and level. Actually, having a square and a level meant I already started with more tools than the average large scale, spec home builder :peepwall: I am lucky enough to have access to engineering tools at work so I was able to perform various analyses and optimize tube locations and actually reduce the weight of the cage by quite a bit from my first cut with a fair amount of triangulation "by eye".

Attached is the analysis model of the proposed chassis design. The cage in the rear will house the sequential 5 spd transaxle I have and the engine will be set back about 6" to get nearly all of its weight behind the front wheels.

byndbad914

01-29-2013, 10:07 PM

I am gutting my current road race car to build the Nova, so instead of a Porsche with a mix of Chevy parts, I will have a Chevy with a mix of Porsche parts :D The 16x11 and 16x12 wheels will be utilized on this car for road racing and I may bump up to 18s for the street use as there is a good selection of 11" to 13" rubber out there for that diameter these days.

Crazy how much cleaner my garage was then :D

The 914 has a de-stroked 400 (353 cubes with a 327 crank and 6" rods). Simple flattop combo with alum 23deg heads and tappet cam. 525HP/438 ft-lbs when I broke it in on the dyno 7 years ago in Placentia CA with only a 1% correction factor. Been beating the hell out of it for 7 years now and she just keeps rockin'.

Took the car out last Saturday for the final hoorah on an open track day and it was the fastest car there and ran a lap 2.1 seconds faster than the SCCA Super Production class record which happens to be held by another 914 V8 but it has a 402 cube all alum brodix tall deck engine and 150 more HP. In fact, even in light traffic, I have over a dozen record breaking laps, so it makes it hard to tear it down but I need something new.

byndbad914

01-29-2013, 10:19 PM

I intend to have the ride height the same as the 914, about 4.5" at the front of the rockers, a 1" rake overall, and then hope to find someone local to build a good air dam and put the splitter at 4" just like the teener as well. Frame clearance will be 4" front to rear, parallel to ground, with the body raked.

Started installing the rocker rails and frenching them into the existing floor pan. I am likely going to just do a full floor but for now want to keep the body and interior pretty stock looking. It would be way easier to just replace the floor pans so I may just do that in the end. The driver's pan will need a fair amount of work anyway as I have one of the first Tilton floor mount pedal assemblies and intend to keep using it so that will have to be worked in.

I set the main frame section under the car and will now be working on frenching that in as well. Got the torch out for easy interference removal on the lower control arm/engine mount and the caster links.

Flash68

01-29-2013, 10:21 PM

Killer project. Really enjoyed your videos with the P-car.

:thumbsup:

waynieZ

01-30-2013, 12:29 PM

Nice project My favorite years 66-67.

byndbad914

01-31-2013, 12:11 AM

thanks guys. I have to admit, I am going to miss the 914 for track days but look forward to having a more streetable car all the same. I finished editing some video from last Saturday and some laps from my last track day are on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Io3V21P6Hs&list=UUB3SEvvznUiTgOYifbYVTLw&index=1

The rear was really loose in the less than optimal weather conditions here in Colorado in January and still posting some awesome times. I really believe this car, in the late spring or early fall here would be a 1:53 car on the local track. I ran one day a friend timed me in three segments and traffic varied a fair amount, but the best pieced together lap of the fastest of the three sections was a 1:53.8 and I am actually better and a couple sections now than I was then. So it makes it hard to tear the car apart.

I too like the 6 and 7 the best, just a great overall look of a 60s era car.

Payton King

01-31-2013, 06:50 AM

...and I will miss the P-car as well. I assume that you will keep it and maybe bring it back to life one day?

byndbad914

01-31-2013, 07:24 PM

I am waffling on the 914 - once I have everything transferred over to the Nova, what is left is the tube chassis, wiring and body/dash work. Otherwise all suspension, brakes, so forth go to the Nova. So, if I can find a buyer for the "scraper" for a price I deem good enough, I would let it go, otherwise I am more likely considering tying some pulleys into the roof of my garage, hoisting the scraper up over the Nova, and just keeping it in case I get the jones to go crazy again.

I also thought about buying another 914 tub, cut it up to replace the super hacked up tub I have now, go back to full doors, wipers, all lights working again, a 377 cube destroked 400 and a more standard transaxle in it and make it a driver again as well. That would take a lot of work tho' but if I fitted an A/C-heater assy that it never had into it I could have a hell of a daily driver! Suspension I can just copy again from all my engineering files. I have so many 914 parts over 20 yrs of messing with them including the doors, good decklids, blah blah I could do it. 550HP, 2500lb daily driver with a 72" wing on the back :idea:

byndbad914

02-02-2013, 05:42 PM

little update of yesterday's work, was out with friends planting lead into hillsides up in the mountains today but hope to get some more progress tomorrow as well.

byndbad914

02-03-2013, 08:54 PM

got a little further today - took about 5 hours but I worked and worked until the car was perfectly level, then the main frame section, then got is squared up in the car, plumb bobbed like a freak, and finally cut two of the tie tubes that will go between the rockers rails and the main frame and tacked them in. That should be the hardest part of the build - getting things square and level - especially when I am dropping points off of a nearly 50 year old body = a major PITA.

I took one of the wheels I used to run on the front of the Porsche a few years back and tucked it up in the rear to get an idea of overall ride height. For those not in the know, "2 by" and "4 by" chunks are completely scientific. Actually it measured out to be within a ±1/8" of what I expect the height to be so this should be close. And those 245s barely fit up in there, my 275s were close but no cigar, so going to a 13" wide tire is going to take a fair amount of cutting in the rear. Good thing I won't need the rear subframe anymore :thumbsup:

Hard to tell from the somewhat uneven floor (in Colorado the ground moves a fair amount so your garage is level for about the first month) but the frame is level here and the rocker rails are leveled as well and set for ride height, so you can sort of see the rake that I put into the body. Without front fenders it is a bit tough. Rockers at the front should end up about 3-3/4" ground clearance with the setup I finalized on using the 16" wheels and 24" front tire, 25" rear tire. For the street I will likely go 18" wheels as mentioned which will push front to 25" diam and rear around 25.5", raising the rocker to 4-1/4" on the street. 'Course, that is probably ±1/2" until I finish it and actually measure it hahaha. This is a garage project after all.

Oh yeah, I had those tires stacked on the front because I found the cg of the body with the jack at one point. The front was rather light while I was messing around getting things in place. Now everything is pretty solid but I figure I would rather stay safer than sorry.

byndbad914

02-06-2013, 03:15 PM

So talking with some co-workers and showing some photos of the progress, I was looking at how far the rear tire was tucked up in, then looking at my 914 and realized the front tire on the 914 is almost completely visible thru the fenderwell. That car was meant to be 5" off of the ground... the Nova, not so much. I grabbed a fender out for the Nova, placed that 245/50/15 tire and wheel at ride height on those blocks of wood, and I can say there is no good way I can put the car that low and turn the tires! The tire runs right into the fender immediately. If I spaced it in about 1-1/4" I could get enough motion to make a turn, and I planned to run steering stops for track use anyway (going near full lock with 11" tires and manual steering can rip the wheel out of your hand pretty easy) - but I don't like the look of the tire tucked in that far, nor do I like the idea of loosing another 2.5" of track width - the flared 914 already has a 2" wider track than the Nova.

So I am at an interesting point in the build already - either narrow the track which while being low would look cool and keep weight low, I think will look weird overall, or I raise the car up a couple more inches and see if that helps. I can keep the center part of the frame low, physically just raise the body up, which keeps the bulk of the car (all the drivetrain) at a 4" ride height which is probably what I will do at this point. Gives me more room under the hood for the tall intake and so forth, just sort of a bummer to not have the car as low as I wanted. Guess I didn't need to french the center frame into the floor after all which is also a pisser. Good excuse to replace the rusty floors anyway I guess - look at the bright side, right! :bitchslap:

The joy of going from paper to the real world! The other thing is those old cars have a fair amount of scrub which sweeps the tire around when turning - my custom suspension I designed on the 914 to have 1" of scrub on an 11" wheel so the tire pivots more than it sweeps, which while good for track use, I think exacerbates this issue.

Flash68

02-06-2013, 03:23 PM

Flares! :peepwall:

:thumbsup:

byndbad914

02-06-2013, 04:54 PM

:lol: I know, right! Sadly, the early Novas are called "box Novas" for a reason - I have looked at the car since getting it trying to see if there would be a good, clean way to introduce flares into the design and I am not seeing it. The Porsche, and your Camaro for that matter, have a more rounded shape to them so flares fit well and look like they belong - I may need to figure out some way to pull the fenders out and not disturb the overall look. The body line right down the side of the car sort of honks up any good ideas I thought I had as well :sieg:

Maybe I will just graft some 914 GT flares on it and call it a day! The cars do have similarly shaped fender openings and the 914 had pretty flat sides :computer:

Payton King

02-07-2013, 10:44 AM

well it is not mine but I liked it. Ring Brothers did the black and orange mustang. Widened the car 2 inches on each side, and brought the doors out to match. You could go wider if need be, but you would still keep the car visually intact.

http://ringbrothers.com/1965_mustang_producer

Flash68

02-07-2013, 11:52 AM

The Mustang coupes are pretty dang boxy and I think this looks bad ass.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/5AB6FCAF-1278-4D8F-8AF8-8F35546DB586-4952-00000897F04AF624_zpsfc0bafb0.jpg

byndbad914

02-07-2013, 03:46 PM

I do like old T/A cars with flares. I had considered cutting the car in half front to back because the lines are sooooo simple on the car left to right and just widening it out 3 or 4 iches but then that is custom glass, etc etc. I was going to do that to the 914 originally and it was going to be an overall pretty brutal expense. Then, along the lines Payton points out, I thought about trying to flare front and rear like an 80s BMW M3 or Porsche 944 and just cut at the upper body lines and pull the fenders out. Physically moving the whole thing out like that Ring Bros car, oof, again, rough on the pocket book but certainly more subtle! Slick idea, and seeing their cars in person at SEMA is pretty impressive, but :G-Dub: I am a baller, I just don't mention I run in the Little League crowd :D

Number one problem I have is I want the car to look like a basically stock 66 SS with a simple roll cage and nice wheels, lowered - a typical restomod. With the large backspace on the wheels, you wouldn't even think they were wide unless you knelt down and actually looked from the front or rear to see how wide. Sleeper concept. No cowl hood, no nothing. I plan to use the stock console even tho' the sequential has a funky, 2-handle shifter that will stick up through it. Flaring of any type will detract from that because that Nova is seriously as flat as a barn down the side. I was talking about the BMW/Porsche thing with a friend last night looking at the car and he said basically that same thing I have thought - the sides are just too flat so anything will become noticeable.

It will be more of a sleeper at 6" height than 4" height, and I am only raising the body and interior, so at least most everything else will be low and centered and shouldn't impact handling too much. At least that is what I have been telling myself the past couple days waiting for the reality to sink in haha.

byndbad914

02-07-2013, 03:52 PM

seeing that Mustang made me think of this picture, let's hope the Nova doesn't handle like this when I am done :lol:

byndbad914

02-16-2013, 11:03 PM

I lowered the frame center section down another 1-3/4", so now I have a 2-5/8" delta in height from the main section and the rockers. That should net me around 5.5" clearance at the front of the rockers, 6-1/8" at the rear of the rockers. Still pretty low. Bummer is I would not have had to french the floor for the center section so I will now have to go back and fill all of that in :rolleyes:

Nice thing tho' is there is more room for the torque tube and the high rise intake from raising the body up more, and it allows me a better way of putting the roll cage in but still being able to lift the body off. Engine should fit under the hood completely without cutting out hood bracing now, even with the tall filter.

Having a couple degrees of neg camber on the front for the track will help it all work out as well.

Next step pretty much is to pull the suspension out of the Porsche and start fitting it in here. I cut the inner fenderwells out of the rear today and I can see I need to go ahead and cut the rear subframe out of my way as well too, so I need to figure out some rear support for the trunk first. No way I can get that massive 13" wide tire back there with the subframe in the way :thumbsup:

But I sort of want to hit the track in the 914 again, it was just too much fun last time out as usual. Been looking at C6 Vettes again but I need to finish a project before I start another :getout:

byndbad914

03-06-2013, 04:27 PM

Cut the rear inners out and chopped the subframe back so I could fit the rear tires in. I also stripped the 914 last weekend so I am going to get plowing forward on this project with some more steam now. Will start fitting suspension next. Here are a couple quick shots with the race wheels and tires that will be on the car roughly fitted and blocked up to actual ride height. I can tip the front tires at -1deg to -1.5deg and keep the bottom out for track width while getting enough clearance from the fender to turn the tires enough to get around a track. Won't be busting U-turns with it unless they are 3 pointers but that doesn't bother me for a hot rod.

I think it will look pretty bitchin' even at the higher ride height. Still need to figure out how I am going to get the rear tires off with the IRS, I will have to make it so it can easily detach limiting straps so it can drop down 4" per side. I will also have to lift the rear as a unit so the sway bar droops. PITA making a car that serves two purposes v. just a track car - I would just get fiberglass rears and Dzus 'em on.

Carbon fiber hood is supposed to show up today from Anvil. They had a 50% off sale on what was left in stock - they had one mixed FRP/carbon trunk which is 18lbs v. the 50lb lump I took off (holy SH!T that is a heavy trunk lid on these) and my mom picked that up. the hood wouldn't fit in her little SUV so it was trucked out here and that is the full carbon version that is also 18 lbs v. the 45lb stocker. I will be painting them (not the type to wear my pants around my hips with my boxers out and bench racing my carbon look) so I didn't want the full carbon hood but it was the only one left. Lemme see, $749 for a new mixed one and 10wk wait or $800 for the full carbon shipped that day... hmmmm :G-Dub: :lol:

Plan to run my NASCAR dual core double pass radiator and keep it low and slanted as shown in the pic. Keep all the weight as slow as possible. I will need to find a good body guy to make a front spoiler so I can duct air from below the bumper into it as well. The oil coolers will mount low in the front as well. I will just block off the upper part of the stock opening. Maybe I will just cut the core support a bunch and skin it, we will see how motivated I am to do that in the future.

byndbad914

03-06-2013, 05:20 PM

...and the Anvil hood just showed up a bit ago. I unpacked it with the driver here to inspect it for any damage and he about flipped when he saw the full CF hood. He immediately recognized the car was an old Nova too and his brother had a 914 back in the day so he knew the cars :D

While I don't have my pants low as mentioned, I did have to drop them completely for a few minutes after mounting it on the car. Don't worry, everything is all cleaned up for the pics :thumbsup:

GregWeld

03-06-2013, 08:21 PM

One of my all time personal favorite body styles....

This will be interesting because after reading from the beginning -- I ran thru by pea brain and couldn't come up with a single road race Nova (these years) in my memory. Makes you kind of wonder why. I haven't a clue.

:thumbsup:

byndbad914

03-06-2013, 09:48 PM

Only Nova I have seen set up for road racing was II Much and I am not sure how much track time that car even saw in the end. Camaros are the more obvious choice given the Trans Am history there. The nose on the Nova will make it a flying brick. They are usually drag raced since they are a light V8 car to start with, I guess I just need to go against the grain :bitchslap:

After closing the hood down on the car, I will have to cut the center of it and reshape it - it is completely flat along the back edge and the car has a bit of a roll to it at the cowl, so it doesn't fit right. If someone wanted a raw CF look I am not sure how they would get it with this hood unless they left the fit as is and just lived with it. It is down a full 5/8" so this is going to take some serious rework to fit - I will have to call Anvil tomorrow and see what we can do about it. Half off doesn't do much good if I have to spend $500 with a body guy to cut and bondo it all back together :headscratch: You can see the corners are at the right, flush height... rather bummed right now.

Flash68

03-06-2013, 10:07 PM

Those tires look great tucked under there.

not the type to wear my pants around my hips with my boxers out and bench racing my carbon look

:lmao: That's awesome.

One of my all time personal favorite body styles....

This will be interesting because after reading from the beginning -- I ran thru by pea brain and couldn't come up with a single road race Nova (these years) in my memory. Makes you kind of wonder why. I haven't a clue.

:thumbsup:

Um... :hello:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/0708_crup_09_z1967_chevy_novaside_v_zps8d2d88a7.jp g

byndbad914

03-06-2013, 11:07 PM

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/0708_crup_09_z1967_chevy_novaside_v_zps8d2d88a7.jp g
Perfect shot to point out the issue I was having with the low ride height I originally was shooting for - notice how far in the front tires are on II Much, that is what I am trying like heck to avoid. I saw that car at PRI in Florida something like 7 years ago now and it was at SEMA as well so I looked at it a fair amount and he did some nice work, but I am not a fan of that sucked in front tire look. I would rather raise the body up a bit than to run that setup. Having the track width on the front narrower than the rear is a bad idea for cornering as well.

GregWeld

03-07-2013, 06:00 AM

Flash68

03-07-2013, 09:41 AM

Say what you mean Greggers.. not mean what you say. :bitchslap:

byndbad914

03-07-2013, 01:27 PM

When I said I was trying to come up with a road race Nova.... I was referring to HISTORICALLY -- as in back in the late 60's early 70's... Not just the one PT car build. You know - ala Penske Camaro etc...
I hear you - Trans Am is what I would refer to for that (as I did with the Camaros in an earlier post). TA started in 66 and I don't think Chevy campaigned anything until the 68 Camaro, so that might be why there was never a road race Nova. If they were going to run a small sedan it would have been the right choice to run against Mercury Comets/Ford Fairlanes and Dodge Darts.

96z28ss

03-07-2013, 03:22 PM

the only one I was able to find was Dan Spiegel the driver of a 66 Chevy II Nova.

Royalworks

03-07-2013, 05:20 PM

69c4x11

03-07-2013, 05:35 PM

Cut the cowl, heck, fill the thing and wiper delete it:bang: :bang: :bang:

byndbad914

03-07-2013, 10:02 PM

Are you going to rework the cowl vent to fit the hood. That is what I would do if they don't wanna work with you. That way you can still keep the carbon fiber and not have to do fiberglass work. Any other ideas on this?
Talked to Tracy at Anvil today and he gave me some tips on how to reform it without cutting it, and then they approved a discount I asked to have put to credit my card to cover me having my body guy do the work locally so the customer service has been great. Manal was really helpful with the purchasing and approved the credit within minutes of my conversation with Tracy so I have to say I am happy with the company's willingness to work out the issue. They were also willing to bring it back and ship me another but I didn't feel the need to go through all of that for something that sounds resolvable with simple rework.

Tracy suspected that it may have been pulled from the mold a bit too early and sagged and that while it isn't common, he knew of some ways I can reform it and pull the hood back up to match the cowl. I am going to be painting it so any minor rework causing some finish issues won't matter to me. I didn't want to rework the cowl because if I had an issue with the hood down the road and replaced it with another, I would then be reworking the cowl to put it back.

This weekend I am hoping to get a start on placing the front suspension pieces. I have some tabs I ordered that have 1/2" thru holes and I need 5/8" and had just planned to drill them. Holy chit they are HARD so it killed my bit immediately - I need to find a bitchin' drill bit to get through 'em :D I have done all the math in my engineering software to know my pickup points and so forth, just need to get the darn tabs drilled :rolleyes:

byndbad914

03-07-2013, 10:13 PM

As for that Spiegel car, thanks for the info on that. I went to a TA website I know of and saw that exact photo. On the same website there is info on the car that started me road racing back in the mid 90s.

http://www.historictransam.com/Drivers/MichaelMartin70Mustang78.html
http://www.historictransam.com/images/wc040264.jpg

I had a 70 Mustang, met a guy named Mark Behne at a huge Ford show in SoCal that had restored this car (looked different back then, now it is completely a spec restoration, I liked his paint scheme a bit better back then and still have a photo of the car in my office) and owned it back then. I was drag racing my car at the time but loved the TA stuff; he invited me to his house, so forth and after becoming friends he invited me out to Willow Springs to watch the car run. He told me I would only have to road race once to never drag race again. I went out to watch and he offered the wheel to me! Literally having never been in the car or road raced, I hit the track in it and put down a few laps. He was right, I stopped drag racing that day :lol:

byndbad914

03-09-2013, 06:16 PM

Tacked in the front lower control arms today and then was able to truly test fit the wheel in the fenderwell and visually verify the placement of the wheel center looks correct. I am going to have to get a bunch of custom tabs either plasma or waterjet cut to finish up and do the rear - I had a bunch of tabs I custom designed for the 914 and a few were left over that worked absolutely perfect for placing the susp components on the Nova too. I designed the tabs so there is either flat surfaces that align to square tube so there is no thinking, just attach it square, or they have a surface I can set level to ground and then adjust the height along the tube. In this case, the tabs are perfect as they align with either the top surface or the bottom surface of the tub and get the hole center exactly where I want it for correct ride height.

I took a break and went back to the old susp design files I had on the Porsche and updated them for this car. I set a lot of the lengths to things I can either measure with a tape or angle finder for ease of install. There are a bunch of (reference) dims that auto update as I mess with bump and so forth to verify toe doesn't change thru bump or verify camber gain. Certain dims are set such as the upright height as it is a welded piece that won't change (at least not without a trip into a wall). Those pieces were all designed in the same software for the Porsche.

Front sups has the 2.821" roll center height, rear is 3.470". All of that is what it ends up, I didn't force it to those weird dims :D Well, I guess I sort of did by using defining all of the other dims but nonetheless, that is a driven dimension by the design so I work all the other stuff to get those numbers roughly where I want them.

Interesting enough, the modern Vette has similar front suspension setup dims as the Porsches dating clear back to my 1972 car, so it is a pretty proven design. The front susp has a 10deg KPI and 6 to 7 deg caster and that is what Vettes and Porsches basically have. So on the front, I work the design to get the upright angle at 11.5deg - that is 10deg KPI with 1.5 deg of negative camber for the tires. The rear uprights have an 8.5deg angle built in so I went with 9deg to have 0.5 deg neg camber on the rear as a base setting. This is what the 914 had and showed perfect tire wear on the track with Hoosiers. Good thing is that won't chew the street tires up too bad at those settings. The fronts I will have to rotate on the wheel periodically to even out the wear.

Static RCs are inline with modern Vettes and Porsches as well.

Edit, pics attached. Note on the close up of the front tabs I have a flat spot on them I can use magnetic angle finders to hold flush with he top of the chassis. That is what I meant by having custom tabs with placement features. I want to try to come up with a rocker mechanism so I can run the Penskes internally.

byndbad914

03-17-2013, 07:31 PM

weather was nice and I picked up a plasma cutter so I was able to have the garage door open to help alleviate some of the fumes as I cut away at the car. Got the rear frame in as well and mounted up some of the rear suspension. As for the front, I welded together the core support and other items to make it a rigid piece, then on the lower part I have some 1x2 that I bolted to the frame. That way the nose can still come off from the frame and firewall. The square holes in the front are where the 3/8" screws pass thru that I used with the 1x2.

byndbad914

03-24-2013, 11:47 AM

we had some snow - heaven forbid that would happen in the Denver area - so the steel place I source from was closed Saturday so I couldn't pick up the pieces I need to really roll this weekend. Here is how far I got before I ran out of 1x2 and still need some round bar to do the front upper A mods.

At the front I added the tabs for the upper A rear mount and cut the existing rear upper, which was longer than the existing front caster link, to start the front (I have to redo that for the rear as well). I also test fit the radiator; this is probably a bit premature but I want to make sure my front bracing didn't affect my plan to lay it down as shown. Keeping the weight low and I can exhaust out of the hood if I choose to later. I will close off the cowl above the radiator after final fitting - it will be nearly the last thing to actually go in.

At the rear, I placed the toe link tabs and set that link in place. After adding the tie, jacking it up to get the lower A parallel, all of the other links came in within a degree of what my CAD modeling states so they are essentially spot on. It is nice to see a rough check be so close.

I also placed the 1x2 from the main frame to the rear bumper- I will be cutting this up near the main frame and adding in a brace or bolted interface so the body can be removed. This will be the diffuser mount. I also tied in the rear body right at the rear bumper mounting so I can carry the stock bumper, and that is obviously a bolted joint in the photos - again, the body is meant to lift up and off from the frame and drivetrain assy. It probably looks a little flimsy (it did to me) but once that is all bolted up you cannot shake the rear, it shakes the whole body.

I will be out of commission for the next couple weeks with travel next weekend and friends in town the following, so I am bummed I couldn't get the tubing I needed to roll hard today... I would have had the front done for sure.

Payton King

03-25-2013, 07:29 AM

up to be one of my favorite builds. Appears that you are really moving when you do have a chance to work on it.

Look forward to more progress.

byndbad914

04-14-2013, 03:10 PM

got the upper As built for the front - I have seen them done this way before, not totally sure if I am a fan yet. Having a caster adjustment with the clevis, then treating the two rod ends for just camber seems like a slick idea, but I am not totally sold on it. Having two adjustable ends on the upper A (clevis and rod end) means that arm can float up and down until it the jam nuts are tight - it is hard to describe but it seems to me like if one gets loose it could loosen the other and then the arm would just collapse. I can more or less decouple camber and caster with the two rod ends and no clevis, so I may just weld the clevis solid. I can also utilize the lower A to decouple the camber as well.

Not a lot of thought probably gets put to this stuff but when I am at the track, making a caster adjustment without affecting camber is nice - I always have to adjust toe but at least removing one adjustment would be nice. Any time you start rotating the A arms to get caster, then go back and adjust camber, it will pull the pivot at the upright along that angle, so caster is coupled into camber adjustments. Probably no real way around it.

Anyway, pics of the front susp tacked into place. The upper A can be shimmed up (or down with removal) at the upright, just below the large rod cup on the upper, to adjust roll center. Also got the lower As level all around and the final ride height is set. These are 16" wheels and the front tires are 23.5" diam so while they may not seem tucked up in the fender, if I go with 18s for the street they will be up in there another inch. At the front rocker just behind the front tire I measure 6". With some tire squish once it is on the ground probably 5-3/4". The Porsche was around 4.5" or 4.75", so not a whole lot higher than that car was, an inch or so.

waynieZ

04-15-2013, 11:09 AM

Its looking good.

no go nova

04-16-2013, 10:18 AM

Crazy build I think you should have tried a wide body for front tire clearance. I'm gonna subscribe wanna see how this project turns out.

Payton King

04-16-2013, 12:22 PM

just looks mean!

byndbad914

04-16-2013, 06:32 PM

thanks guys - I talked to a local fab shop that does some sprint cars mostly but all sorts of cages and am thinking of having them bend up a cage. I have never bent tube, but not having done something has never stopped me before so I may just buy a bender and go for it because I would like to learn how to do it, but in the long run I will spend a lot more money buying benders and F'ing up tubing to learn than just have it done. We will see which option I pick, he said he is super busy (it is the off-season for racing so for fab shops that is on-season) so I may just go for it based on timing.

The other thing I am trying to figure out is if I want to do a rockered suspension system. I have a rocker concept designed up in engineering software and just need to have four of them machined (I don't have lathe access), but am assessing the real value. My Penske shocks from the Porsche have somewhat limited travel since I only was tracking the 914, so building a ratio into the rocker means I can have the tire move more than the shock, which is better since this is now a street car and our roads in CO are pretty rough. It also moves the shock and coilover inboard and out of my way near the tire, but that is less of an overall concern. It would be nice to get some more clearance around my rear axles and move the coilovers away from them. But then I have this rocker assy to place in the mix.

I had a plan for how I would run the fuel cell, but I set it in place and would really like to change its orientation and that would definitely mean I need to rocker the rears. Joys of actually fabbing v. thinking about fabbing, you have to fit everything in when you actually build it :D

I am hell bent on having a back seat in the final build and that makes a few things a total PITA. Having a back seat means I can scare up to 7 people, the three with me and the four in the car next to me :thumbsup:

Oh yeah, as for wider fenders, the front track width is going to wider than the rear at these settings and I can get a fair amount of tire rotation at the front, more than I had on the 914, so I should have no rubbing issues and still be able to make turns on the track. U-turns will be 3 pointers, but that is a small sacrifice to be able to get to ludicrous speed with wider front meats.

byndbad914

05-10-2013, 06:27 PM

got a little progress today. Had some "surprise" work travel to NorCal right after I got back from DC area, then my mom drove into town last weekend, so it has been hectic again lately, but I did get some progress today - I worked with the machinist at my job to machine up the first of four bearing carriages to make my suspension rocker arms to move the shocks/coils inboard. We had to lathe out the center and then cut an internal groove for the spiral locks and he did an awesome job.

Now I need to see if I can make the pieces for the rocker and weld them on without distorting the hell out of the little housing. He has the bore tight to just over .001" which is way better than I could have done, but leaves me little room for overheating while welding.

It is hard to see but I have two bearings in there so they can react any moment trying to twist the arm and force it to only pivot about the bolt. He is going to make the other three housings tomorrow and then next week I hope to get in there and lathe up some 1/2" spacers for the bolt.

The nice thing will be that I can build a ratio into the rocker arm that matches the ratio at my lower A arm between the shock and wheel center - that will mean I should have a 1:1 wheel rate and therefore a 1:1 motion ratio. That is nice because I was buying really stiff springs for the 914 trying to get a good wheel rate, now whatever I want at the wheel will be exactly what the spring rate is, no motion ratio math to mess with.

no go nova

05-10-2013, 07:46 PM

Cant wait to see finish pics

byndbad914

05-19-2013, 02:18 AM

Behind the scenes I have been attempting to pick up a Z06 since I have been missing my Grand Sport. I thought I had one bought in TX but that fell thru so I gave up, but then ran across another one that actually I prefer so I am glad the other fell thru. Now that deal is getting a bit shakey as the seller didn't realize how much he actually still owed v. what we agreed for purchase price but it is still moving toward a June 1 close date - hard to make a straight deal!

Then today I ended up talking to a guy about my 914 and he sent me a deposit tonight to buy the roller I had advertised a few months back, so now I am moving the suspension back off the Nova and putting it back on the 914. This is a good thing actually because he gets a great deal on a great roller that was a well tuned setup and I can reconsider the Nova design and try to run C6 Vette parts to keep the car GM instead of mixing in Porsche parts. It will cost me more in the end than I got for the 914 to replace the pieces I was going to reuse, but apparently wasting my money on cars v. saving it for later has not been a problem to date! I won't be able to build this stuff when I am old anyway so I might as well work then and play now, right? :relax:

So, it will slow the progress on the Nova here while I regroup and configure a new shock, brake, and suspension package but I think it is a move in the right direction. In fact, I am hoping to be able to set the car up to run the exact same wheel offset as the Z and then I can get multiple sets of wheels I can swap between vehicles depending on what I am tracking and what I am streeting. Was not really interested in running 18s on the Nova as I dislike large wheels as a general statement, anything over 18s being out of question. On the Nova I really liked the fit and look of the 16s, but getting bigger brakes onto the heavier car makes more sense than sticking to a particular look :) And the 1" larger diam rear v. front look of the modern Vette is actually the one thing I really do NOT like about the cars, everything else is great. They look so much better with 18s all around.

Anyway, it has been a whirlwind couple of weeks piled on top of some pretty aggressive work stuff sucking up some of my weekend time as well but all will be back on track in a month or two.

Rick D

05-19-2013, 05:59 AM

byndbad914

05-19-2013, 09:29 PM

I hear you Rick - I got the Porsche almost completely back together today. That is what is nice about the suspension the way it is, within a few hours it was off the Nova and back on the Porsche - it took me longer to get the engine and trans out hahaha. But then I am looking at the Nova and I am back to damn near Feb of this year :rolleyes: I was on path to have it running and on the track by end of summer but oh well, it is definitely the better direction to go.

Since I am a planner it will be a couple months of just replanning the design before I even get rolling again

byndbad914

05-28-2013, 06:49 PM

Rick D

05-28-2013, 07:47 PM

Oh man, me likey that is hot for sure Tim. That should help take your mind off not having your Porsche anymore? Man I should just go buy one of these and forget working on a car?? :bitchslap: yeah then my wife does this to me :bitchslap: she hates vetts.

bonecrrusher

05-29-2013, 08:06 PM

Mmmm beer errrr suede!

I upgraded to the 2012 seats in my C6 - and love it!

Great looking C6 Carbon!

byndbad914

05-30-2013, 03:48 PM

There is something to be said about a turn-key hot rod!

As for the interior, I do like the suede seats and steering wheel as well. The 2012 seats had a different shoulder bolstering that looks like it might fit well but I will stick with the factory seat shape in this one.

parsonsj

05-31-2013, 12:16 PM

Having the track width on the front narrower than the rear is a bad idea for cornering as well.It turned ok. :) Kyle Tucker once ran a faster time in an autocross in II Much than in his own car.

To avoid pulling the tires in to turn means nearly 4 inches difference in ride height -- which has its own problems as well. There's no good answer in a 66-67 Chevy II body without changing the body lines.

wiedemab

05-31-2013, 01:39 PM

It turned ok. :)
To avoid pulling the tires in to turn means nearly 4 inches difference in ride height -- which has its own problems as well. There's no good answer in a 66-67 Chevy II body without changing the body lines.

Yep -- I've been looking at my Dad's car for the past couple of years as I plan out my '67 build and I can't figure out anything "good" given that damn body line right above the wheel openings.

byndbad914

05-31-2013, 02:45 PM

yep, it is hard car to get low with sides like a barn - that car is truly a box. I hear you about trying to keep it low too John, the only solution I came up with was the lowering of the center of the frame to keep all of the drivetrain weight low in the car and am essentially lifting the body up. Still has a higher cg than lowering the whole shot.

And that body line is the PITA part - I was trying to figure out if I could move the fender opening up in the car but then the body line makes that mod obvious, and to relocate that line down the length would be a total PITA.

parsonsj

05-31-2013, 03:13 PM

byndbad914

05-31-2013, 05:20 PM

The only other thing you can do is to limit the turning radius. I did that some, but I wanted to be able to make ordinary parking lot and U turns. If you give up some more of that, you could push the tires out an inch per side or so.
You are spot on John and this is exactly what I am going to do - I plan to track the car and give up some turning radius on the street to move the tires out. On my 914 I severely limited the turning as it was truly track only and I never needed to go to my "new" lock position, so I was going to copy that into this car. That is how I got the fronts out as far as I did in the photos and could still turn "just enough" and juuuuuusssst barely not hit the fenders.

I started measuring the Vette suspension pieces on my car last night and man the lower A arms are long! 'Course that car is also super wide, it barely fit in my trailer to get it home. I will likely just custom make some arms and then adapt them to the Vette uprights, maybe consider C5 stuff to reduce the wheel height requirement.

byndbad914

07-23-2013, 08:41 PM

I have been working on regrouping and so forth and finally last Friday I ordered a set of Forgeline GA3s with the correct fitment to bolt onto my Vette. Will look like this but with gloss instead of semi gloss centers

http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/images/wheels/Performance%20Wheels/GA3blackcenter.jpg

I intend to primarily use these wheels on the Nova tho'. Should have them in 3-4 weeks. 18x10.5 with 295/30R18 R6s front and 18x12.5 with 335/30R18 R6s on the rear. These will clear the front 394mm rotors and massive calipers on the Carbon so any brake I put in the Nova will fit without issue. My friend carries Stop Tech and Brembo brakes so I am considering them with 380-385mm front rotors and 355-365mm rear rotors for the Nova. That might be enough brake :mock:

Also I ordered C6 spindles from 2 different junk yards today to get a total of 4 on their way. 3 were basically brand new from a 2011 car (1000 miles on them, off of a car used in a new Schwarzenegger movie apparently) and then had to find the last one which is off an 09 with 18K miles. The latter has the hub still attached so that is good to get started overall spindle fitment. I will use SKF ZR1 hubs for final assembly.

Once I have all of these parts in hand I can start mocking up placement in the car again, take measurements, and design upper and lower A arms again. I measured a spindle on my Carbon and it was essentially the same height as the front spindle I had on the 914 so I might get lucky and be able to use the pick-up points I have already tacked into the Nova - we will see.

In other news, I ran across a critical piece of the Mendeola to Vette torque tube puzzle while in CA over July 4th weekend I had been searching awhile for - a buddy happened to have the rear housing out of a C5 auto and let me have it! TSA loved seeing that in my suitcase apparently as they rummaged thru my luggage like the low-brow, minimal IQ, 99.9% chimps they are and then left my neat, double packaging open so some of my nice clothes could get covered with grease stains on the trip home :bigun2: Apparently the "nothing is free" saying continues to hold true.

So I met with a rep at Mark Williams today to discuss making some adapter parts I need to attach that to the Mendy and then convert to Universal Joints to run a standard design, carbon fiber driveshaft. This is something I have considered the largest hurdle with the whole project, so to see that design coming to fruition is pretty positive.

The bummer is that between the new wheels and tires, spindles, hubs, big brake kit and the driveline parts, every dime I got for the 914 as a complete roller including a 2nd set of wheels will be :G-Dub: :animated_bye_bye_em OOF! That is a pretty square kick to the monetary testicles...

byndbad914

08-15-2013, 12:04 AM

As I mentioned before, I had stripped my 914 race car down to build the Nova, then sort of out of the blue, got an email from a guy that had came across some extra cash and wondered if I still wanted to sell the roller. So, I took all the susp back out of the Nova, put it back, and sold the roller on Memorial Day weekend.

I got Forgelines today and fit them on the Vette and they look great. Will add a pic this weekend. I dropped a spindle in a front and measured stuff on the Nova - tho' I had already built the suspension up from my custom stuff I had in the Porsche then took it all back out of the Nova - turns out I could literally have reused everything from the Porsche with C6 Vette spindles and stock Vette wheel offsets! I had designed that suspension for the Porsche without much info on a Vette but decent info on a modern Porsche... and just having an idea of how suspension works... turns out the A arm ratios match the Vette, caster within a degree, kingpin inclination the same as a C6 Vette and the spindle height is literally within 1/8" of my spindles I custom designed and machined. Guess that explains why the car picked up nearly 10 seconds on the track when I put the new suspension in!

Good news is this means the Nova should be nearly as impressive for cornering tho' it will likely be a bit slower with about 2" narrower track width than the flared 914, a bit heavier and taller height.

Current plan forward is to get Coleman lower control arms with monoballs for the lower ball joints, Chrysler taper, then ream the Vette spindles to match. I will press the upper BJ out and make a custom spacer to replace it with a Chrysler taper, then use Speedway IMCA upper A arms with Howe Precision Chrysler BJs in the arms.All off the shelf stuff, literally nothing custom other than reaming the spindles to Chrysler 1.5"/ft taper :headspin: I am also hoping to get into the machine shop at work Friday morning and machine up the adapter for the Mendeola to the Vette hub, then get it over to Mark Williams for splining.

Will add pics as I move along... updates are boring without pics :)

gnx7

08-15-2013, 12:33 PM

This is going to be one bad ass Nova! Great fab work so far.

Are you mid mounting the engine? I wasn't sure on that answer!

Also on post #16 that red flared Mustang is my buddy Filip who owns Cortex Racing. My engine builder did the LS7 in it ;) It sports a new paint job (still red) but it is truly beeeeeautiful now with steel flares.

byndbad914

08-15-2013, 03:11 PM

Engine is still front mount with significant setback (I am shooting for 6-7" setback from stock location). Should get the front of the block right inline with the front wheel centerlines, hence technically putting all of the engine weight behind the front wheels. I will then run the transaxle in the back, a C6 Vette bellhousing with aftermarket clutch assy, and a carbon fiber driveshaft to attach the two.

Got the lower control arms from Coleman and a bunch of HD rod ends and high-misalignment spacers from Kartek on order today. The uppers I need to really double-check the measurements tonight and order tomorrow - turns out the uppers have a somewhat limited range of adjustment so need to get out the fine tape measure :lol:

Flash68

08-15-2013, 04:17 PM

This car is gonna be wicked! :stirthepot:

byndbad914

08-15-2013, 11:03 PM

Rick D

08-16-2013, 06:05 AM

I hope so :D The inspiration, as I am sure for many of us, is the car in your signature. I still recall seeing the blurb in Hot Rod Magazine when Big Red hit the scene, I was either a senior in HS or just graduated, after it ran the Silver State Challenge. My friend mail ordered a VCR tape (recall those days!) of the event and with seeing that car in action and it was all over for me. That and shows like Glory Days that Dave Despain did back in the 90s with a lot of SCCA Trans Am footage.

I am always sort of learning as I go so the car will definitely be a work in progress, hopefully not for 17 years like the 914 was, and one of the things I am going to have to learn is fabbing and MIG welding really thin steel. I still blow holes thru thin stuff :welder: Well that and learn how to TIG - I gas welded really well about 15 years ago, you would think I could pick it up, but so far practicing with TIG has not been so promising haha.

Tig welding takes lots of practice. What welder are you using for mig and tig? I love Miller that's all I have mig and tig, but the HTP unit is really nice as well. The newer auto set mig welders are really nice, you just set the wire size, metal thickness, and it sets up the welder for you. Once get used to how it works you can fine tune the setting from there.

One of my fab buddy's just picked up a new Miller unit that will do both mig and tig and stick. It's like and XTM unit from Miller but more mobile, compact. If I remember correctly this new unit has the auto set feature as well?

I'm thinking of selling what I have getting the same setup. I only have a 20x20 attached garage at home so anywhere I can save space I do, plus this new machine is nice.

Can't wait to see your fab work on the Nova, I really love these cars.

byndbad914

08-17-2013, 09:39 PM

Actually I bought the very Miller all-in-one you are talking about, only 29 lbs without wire and comes with a carry strap. So far I have set it to pretty thin but I think I am tacking too long and need to do a bit quicker. The auto settings have been awesome for welding tabs for example, if I futz with the settings, it gets worse. Use what it auto selects and I am fine.

The next trick I have heard to try is using the 110V setup for thin stuff - leaving is set on the 220V is supposedly a bit much.

Pics of the new wheels on the Vette and then I mocked up the left rear to measure out suspension parts to keep ordering. What I like about using wheels with a lot of backspace is then when the car is on the ground it looks a bit more of a sleeper - people would likely assume stock-ish widths at first glance and just think the car is a bit of a classic upgrade... until you get down and look at the width of the tires :thumbsup:

Also seeing how the 295 and the 335 fits a bit narrow IMO is promising as well for running a 320/355 race slick setup down the road.

byndbad914

08-22-2013, 10:46 PM

Mocked up the left upper A and the lower A pieces. Coleman made the lowers, I asked for 12.5" with the rod end fully closed on the jam nut and damned if they didn't nail it perfect! They think of ever'thing too, the shock mount has a floating bushing so no matter what rmonoball the shock would have it would work, with a nominal width of 0.625" which is exactly what pretty much every 1/2" heim I have ever seen is :thumbsup: They knocked the price down a bit too and let me source my own heim which I prefer as I use the really nice HD ones as the liners last longer than a "typical" heim from McMaster-Carr and the like and then got the high-angle spacers and joints from Kartek in SoCal as I have bought from them for some time now and they have always been good to me. The same heims are slightly cheaper at Summit tho' so they are a good source I will use as well.

In the pic it is hard to tell but at 12.5" locked in I should have around 0 to -0.5 deg of camber which is a perfect starting point. If I were only expecting it to be a race car I would have made the minimum -.5 to -1.0 deg but there should be enough adjustment in the control arm heim to get out to -3.0 deg if I need to. With radials, -3.5 is not that uncommon if you are able to push the car hard enough (V8 Supercar guys would laugh at -3.5 deg and tell me to learn to drive) and I can get there if I suck the upper A arm in a little as well so I should have more than plenty of adjustability.

The lower monoball joint pin has shims in .125/.250/.375/.500 to adjust roll center. I will set the car up with .625 on each side and go from there. The upper ball joint ball/pin piece can be swapped out as well to adjust roll center, so again, tons of adjustability. Technically I could adjust ride height within that .625" lower range as well having the upper ball joint adjustable as well if I want to tweak overall stance/height.

The lower caster arm I simply ordered the shortest swage tubing they had in 3/4" thread size (9") and I need to cut it down to around 7" - I machined some 1" thread nuts to the 1" diam tubing so I can splice with it and have something to get a wrench onto when locking the jam nuts - the knurled section isn't all that great and if you pipe wrench it they just get all scratch up.

The uppers are from Speedway and I had them put in angled upper BJ mounts to ensure max compressive travel and unfortunately the threads were honked up on the right side, so they are going to send me a new upper and jam nut, should get them tomorrow. The left one went together without a hitch.

So I have some stuff to work with this weekend at least and keep the ball rolling. And before the peanut gallery gets after me, the grade 5 hardware is what I had laying around - I will be getting all grade 8 stuff :yes:

Payton King

08-23-2013, 06:23 AM

Looking forward to the progress. I see you are using the C6 spindle, will you make our own steering arm or used the one cast in?

byndbad914

08-23-2013, 03:50 PM

I will use the one cast in and then make the rack able to move back and forth to adjust Ackermann and have a slip joint in the steering rod from the steering column. Pretty slick too as, for the fronts, the arm is angled down to offset the caster, meaning that when the steering arm is perfectly level, the spindle appears to be at about 7 degrees caster, so that will make resetting caster at the track easy if I futz with camber and so forth.

I will drill them straight and get rid of the damn taper on those, use a thru bolt and a standard rod end, and then I can machine spacers to set bumpsteer based on where final rack placement is.

The rears point rearward, so I can set those at 14 deg if I want to be particular and keep everything lined up like the front - technically you don't need caster in the rear but some is good as it supposedly keeps everything loaded and not at a zero point where every little bit of clearance in ball joints is then wandering around.

Flash68

08-23-2013, 04:11 PM

Very impressive Tim. Hurry up and finish it. :stirthepot:

byndbad914

09-11-2013, 10:37 PM

so this item is actually what I considered the largest hurdle of the whole project, so I am just glad to have it in hand and done. Everything else is busy work, but getting the drivetrain figured out was going to be the tough part.

I machined the adapter on the lathe at work - engineers don't usually get to use the tools but having a little machining background from my mechanic days bought me some favor :) Then I bored the center out to the dimensions Andrew at Mark Williams asked me to hit and took it to him for final splining. They had to rent a special shaper to cut this specific, odd-ball Hemi spline that Mendeola uses but it all worked out bitchin'. Heat treated it to boot - this should be the strongest piece in the whole drivetrain haha.

The batteries died right after I took these so as I feared, the images are a bit blurry (happens every time right before the batts die). Nonetheless, close enough for internet work. The assembly in the aluminum housing is the tail end of a C5 Automatic torque tube - we took it apart so I could machine the driveshaft side a bit and also replace the bearings, which I need to get on order. Basically I will be making a large adapter piece to bolt to the bell on the Mendy that then holds that C5 tail assy and the new adapter piece inline with the input shaft of the trans. This will be a tedious item to make but not difficult.

You will note I have a piece of sheared off input shaft for test fitting - they sent this to me for clutch alignment so it came in handy for making the part v. schlepping that trans over to Mark Williams for fitment.

byndbad914

09-17-2013, 11:52 PM

spent some time on the lathe at work this evening and turned out four press-fit plugs to replace the stock UBJs in the C6 uprights with a tapered ream. Now I can use Howe race UBJs that are fully rebuildable and I can get different lengths on them to adjust roll center.

Now I just need to update dimensions in my CAD model and determine what upper A length I need now and where the mount holes need to be in the car for correct geometry...

byndbad914

09-22-2013, 09:17 PM

Here is a shot of my dual A assy as of today - all the numbers are exactly what I want in terms of roll center, camber gain, and overall adjustability. I now have to fully adjustable pivot points (top and bottom) that I can mess with ride height and roll center pretty much at will.

For the front I am starting with a 13.5" lower arm length, 10.5" nominal upper length, and what both calculated in my computer and was verified with my angle finder in the attached image is a parallel lower arm nets me an 11 deg upper angle for a static RC of ~2.5" which is what I was shooting for. The lower pivot is not a ball joint but monoball from Coleman and they make a set of spacers that come with it. I can swap those around to vary the upper A angle and therefore static RC but comes with a 1:1 change in ride height (move the pin up 1/4" and the car drops 1/4") so if I need to make a big change I can then just buy a longer or shorter upper ball joint insert.

I then went on to verify I could easily get -3.5deg neg camber on the front for radials. A few may note I underestimated the arm lengths I would need upon my original parts purchase (might notice some of the heims adjusted nearly all the way out) so I will be getting longer pieces on their way next week. All the upper needs is some longer tubes, the lower I just need a new tube for the caster but will need a new custom lower made as they make those to order. Not a big deal, just a few bucks blown in the process of figuring out where I am going with the car :)

no go nova

09-22-2013, 09:57 PM

How are you gonna mount your shock?

coolwelder62

09-23-2013, 06:39 AM

Very cool!!!!!!

byndbad914

09-23-2013, 11:04 AM

How are you gonna mount your shock?
I am sure you are seeing the lower shock mount but will mention this anyway - if you look at the second image, with the tire, on the forward, lower control arm, you should see the welded on tabs for mounting a shock at the base.

I suspect you are asking due to obvious interference with the upper A v. a coil over shock. I am going to use a strut rod that will go to one side of a rocker which will be swage tube, probably 1" in diam so clearance won't be an issue. Once I have the forward down tubes in the car, I will weld up some bracketry to mount the rocker arm I designed. I will then mount the shock vertically, off the frame, up to that rocker arm.

I am sure that is about as clear as mud :lol:

NorCal72

09-23-2013, 12:10 PM

This build is so impressive. I loved that video, I usually get bored watching a lot of the road race videos. Not yours! That motor revs hard! Thanks for sharing.

Flash68

09-23-2013, 01:07 PM

This is a great build. Very refreshing. Keep trucking.

byndbad914

09-23-2013, 02:30 PM

thanks guys!

I suspect you are asking due to obvious interference with the upper A v. a coil over shock. I am going to use a strut rod that will go to one side of a rocker which will be swage tube, probably 1" in diam so clearance won't be an issue. Once I have the forward down tubes in the car, I will weld up some bracketry to mount the rocker arm I designed. I will then mount the shock vertically, off the frame, up to that rocker arm.
I went back thru as I recalled having a shot with my old Penske shocks laid in the front, here it is. Essentially I will get new Penskes and mount them roughly as shown here

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php4?attachmentid=38707&stc=1&d=1362884016

hmm, not sure why it only links and doesn't just reshow the image... just click on the link then and you see the image.

byndbad914

09-29-2013, 12:41 PM

Made some steel adapters on the lathe to mount Spicer U-joint plates to. I had made alum ones for 1350 adapters but it just wasn't working out as I wished. So I went to 1330s which I am told will be more than sufficient for a driveshaft with no torque multiplication on it. The steel adapters are a bit heavier, but everything thermally matches up so I won't have shear loads on the bolts, and I could weld the adapters directly to the stock Corvette driveshaft items which solved a significant, "How do you line a 4-bolt pattern up with an existing 3-bolt pattern?" issue. The main bummer right now is that the carbon fiber driveshaft will have to have steel ends as nobody seems to make 1330 ends in aluminum like the 1350s. Small price to pay to have something that actually will work tho' I guess :D

My friend (and actual machinist, I play one on TV) at work came in on Saturday to run the CNC (I haven't a clue of how to do that) and burn out an alum piece I need to make the mount plate for the front of the Mendeola. I am starting with a center piece that will hold the driveshaft adapter out of the C5 auto torque tube, which originates with a 7" diam piece of round bar. Our lathe only has 6" jaws so that is why we were going CNC on a round item. Unfortunately during rough in the tool went "inside" instead of "outside" to clean the diameter to 6.950". I was left with an .050" wall instead of only taking off .050" :bitchslap: My friend felt really bad but as we all know, sh!t happens, especially if I am involved and it is your day off.

So I will need to get another chunk and we can start over. I am not a fan of one-off CNC machining because it either takes a foam run or five or a few wasted parts to get the program perfect, at least in my general experience. You aren't guaranteed a perfect first unit until you actually run it and get one, but we are stuck with CNC given the diam I need to start with. Again, not a big deal; I feel worse for my friend than my alum part as I have been there and you tend to beat yourself up if you screw up.

In the meantime I mocked the trans up in the car and got the susp pickup points welded in. Getting the axles thru everything is a total PITA and I will need to bend a cross tube for the upper As, weld it in place to hold the 6" spacing, then cut the straight cross tube out to get it thru but all pretty straight forward.

The good news is that it looks like once I have everything in the rear, I may not need to cut the driveshaft tunnel at all. If I ran a torque tube it would be different, but a 3.75" diam CF driveshaft should fit under the stock floor since I raised the body up off the frame center. Worse case I may just get a whole new floor and weld it in but raise it up a bit for final necessary clearance as necessary. If I could get damn near stock on the floor I would be stoked as the stock console will mount at normal height and keep that stock look inside.

byndbad914

10-08-2013, 12:12 AM

have the mounting plate with driveshaft adapter just about finished up - took 4 hours last Saturday both having the C5 hub adapter running in the CNC and then running a vertical mill to layout the plate with the bellhousing pattern. Need to weld the two together then finish out the critical dims. Hopefully have that done and the trans in this coming weekend.

Talked to the rep at Penske that helped me with my Porsche shocks today and he set me straight about motion ratio stuff as I begin to consider setting up the rockers for the suspension. I figured 1:1 was optimal but haven't overlooked the obvious fact that late model supercars utilize large MRs to run very small shock/spring packages. They can work with that setup, but he said it was absolutely better to be as close to 1:1 to get the best range of possibilities to tune the shocks for specific use. Furthermore, I had tender progressive springs I messed with on the 914 and basically gave up on them - and again, I noted supercars aren't running that, just short main spring packages. He noted in general they remove them if a car has them and just run main rates now. So I don't have to bother with figuring that crap out :lol: It will be awhile before I pony up and get them as I will need to get the car built and on scales to know my corner weights but I will need to build the car out to run a specific length so I am expecting to use 18" shocks to have a +/- 3" range.

I found stub axles at a company in NC that adapt ZR1 33-spline hubs to 108mm Porsche 930 CVs which will allow me to run a straight forward axle package with my existing Mendeola 930 hubs so I have those on their way. Totally awesome - I was getting myself spooled up to design an adapter to weld to stock Vette stubs so the fact I can buy an off the shelf item for it stays with my goal to have as little custom as possible. I also ordered four ZR1 hubs from LG Motorsports.

Trying to get lined up with Unisteer to figure out a rack with center take off to fit in the car as well. I have ideas of how I want to offset the input and so forth, just a matter if they can get me what I want. I intend to use their electric power steering unit as well instead of a standard hydraulic setup to minimize plumbing and crap being driven off the crank.

Chugging along...

byndbad914

10-12-2013, 08:13 PM

Trans is in the car and mounts are all welded into place. Getting the adapter all finalized that bolts to the front of the transaxle is, as I have mentioned before, what I consider the largest hurdle. All else from here should be time and money but not as difficult to figure out.

The stub axles showed up Friday as planned but unfortunately LG Motorsports never shipped out my ZR1 hubs. In fact, they had zero record of my order at all, so I have no idea WTF happened there, but they are on there way and should be here Tues. Sucks to lose a good 3-day weekend tho' (had Fri off) but will work on getting all four hubs placed, all four tires placed visually in the fenderwells, then drop a plumb bob from all four corners and start verifying crosses and wheelbase is as expected.

Sent a draft of what I need to a guy at Unisteer on Tues and then called the guy on Friday AM - hadn't even looked at it, said would get back to me, never heard back.

What the Hell is with customer service in the car world? There are good shops of course but it seems for every 2 good I get 1 bad - 66% isn't exactly a good average :bitchslap: unless you are in pro baseball. The ones that are consistent get my money every time; I have a short list of bad ones I still have to deal with but only if they are the only game in town on an item. I actually pay a little more going to some shops than others if they have been good to me, that is all that matters to me in the end.

The ones that are consistently bad are the "sell pretty much everything websites". I have ordered shocks for the truck, floor mats for my Vette and a cargo mat as well in the past 3 months and it took 5 orders at 5 places to get 3 things correct. One is so bad I basically paid for an extra cargo mat and will dump it on Craigslist v. try to get my money back at this point just to keep from shooting up the place.

Next on the list is to get the toe links figured out and then start figuring out how I am going to get the cherry picker swung around to start placing the engine. :hapdance:

Payton King

10-22-2013, 07:35 AM

I am still upset that I did not try and buy the 914 from you.

Lookiong forward to more progress on this car.

byndbad914

10-23-2013, 02:57 PM

thanks! I am sure the guy that picked it up will have a blast taking it over and hopefully taking it further. That car is more about the driver than anything - I know I never found the limit of its potential. One day I got mad as hell - which then turns into an attitude of either it wrecks or it sticks - and I picked up 2 full seconds in one section of the track and was my fastest lap ever. I had never had the huevos after to hang it out that hard again. I am sure a pro driver would have killed the Porsche cup record, I was only 1 second off of it that one lap.

As for the Nova, I have had to be patient to say the least the past couple of weeks.

1. The ZR1 hubs showed up but were "early" hubs and not the "late" hubs I asked for. While their is no difference in the bearing and fitment, the pre-09 cars are 30 spline like all Vettes and late cars are 33 splines. The sales rep didn't realize this so he got them swapped out no cost and I got the 33-spline items last Monday. Basically just trying to make things right works for me, so they are back on my "good list". Next time I will be specific to just order a specific year, as in, order 2011 ZR1 hubs.

2. I ordered a mid-mount for the engine from Summit that is listed as 3/8" thick which is basically perfect for spacing the LS bellhousing back when using an old-school SBC (technically the spacer should be .400" and is what I used in the Porsche before). It showed up last friday - 1/4". :bigun2: So I grabbed some .150" thick alum scrap I had laying around and quick fabbed up a shim to space the bellhousing correctly at exactly .400". PITA nonetheless and apparently my rant continues :bang:

3. I did manage to do some measuring and cut the firewall out a bit in preparation to start placing the engine, then found out my buddy with the "communal" cherry picker was on vacation and I didn't know he was to be gone. Not his fault, but caught me off guard.

So, I have been doing a fair amount of waiting :popcorn2:

GregWeld

10-23-2013, 03:27 PM

then found out my buddy with the "communal" cherry picker was on vacation and I didn't know he was to be gone.

Brett at FAB 53 has a pink one you can have......

byndbad914

10-23-2013, 06:45 PM

unfortunately that would be a bit of a drive for me to pick that up :lol:

byndbad914

11-01-2013, 04:28 PM

Ended up cutting a lot more of the firewall than I originally anticipated but overall it will be much cleaner to build it all back in v. plug up holes and so forth to keep the old stuff. The engine face essentially lines up with the center of the front wheels. The pedals are going to be a fun item to place and I am thinking I will either have to mod the mid-mount I just bought or dump it and make something custom. If I moved the engine forward just one more inch it would make a few things a bit easier but I am hell bent to not do that so I am going to keep at it. I can envision a few different header designs so I have some room to mess with engine location if I must. Figuring out what I want to do about the steering rack looks to be the next serious hurdle - hopefully Unisteer and others have a bunch on display at SEMA next week I can pore over.

I also cut the torque tube down for the front bearing assembly to support the input shaft and test fit that with with the new mid-mount and custom shim plate I had to make to get the LS bellhousing placed correctly and that all fit perfect with almost 100% support on the pilot - can't get better than that.

byndbad914

11-27-2013, 05:19 PM

it's the little things that bite and take time to get right... Got the alternator spaced correctly and ready to mount. Took 3 trips to multiple FLAPS to get the right belt length; I would get 4-5 at a time as I narrowed down to the length required to fit. Inevitably, the lengths I needed to try wasn't available at one so I would head off to the next. Always a busy day for me when belt day comes along :sieg:

As for the oil pump, those belts come in very discreet lengths, so I have to make a size work; there are no small increments to dink with, they are in increments of 1.5" in the range I am working with. My 22.5" from the Porsche was not going to work but fortunately I had a 25.5" that was left over from a previous iteration of the Porsche and it works perfectly. Had to make a new mounting bracket which is easy enough. The fuel pump on the opposite side is nearly dead center between my suspension mount as I had planned so I simply moved the pump spacing until the pressure out and scavenge out are exactly between my suspension mount as well.

Just that took a 3-day weekend. Amazing how much time is spent to fit all this stuff.

Where my plans sort of failed, tho' technically a non-issue, is in my 2x3 crossover placements. I was a bit concerned they would be in the way as I kept the area under the engine clear of cross tubes on the 914 and sho' nuf I am in my own way. I will get the engine mounted and then I will cut both of those crosses out and weld new ones in a bit more forward and rearward. Forward will go near the rack placement once I get a rack frenched into the frame rails (you can see I was mocking up Ackermann in a pic), the other will move rearward to pick up my new midmount flange off of the bellhousing. This will also make necessary room for exhaust routing near the bellhousing. There is a pick of the driveshaft side of the bellhousing assy with the plate I will use, and that goes in between it and the bellhousing.

I ordered a Stoptech BBK from 3ZERO3 Motorsports (local Audi/Porsche shop) today which is who I got the Forgelines through as well - Blake there gets the concept of customer service. It took going to SEMA and walking into the Stoptech booth to get my tech questions finally answered (turns out Blake had done the same thing!), but in the end the race tech confirmed my thoughts that a C6 Vette kit would be a correct fitment for my Nova given my weight distribution expectations and that I have a fully adjustable pedal assy. I only need to change one master cylinder to make it work. Probably not a common occurrence to see a 15" rotor on a 66 Nova :mock: but IMO if you can't lock all four on race slicks and slide, you don't have enough brake. Of course, it cuts down on fade big time which is my primary concern.

Rear axles assemblies from Drive Shaft Specialists (DSS) are in and fit great - Tad there was another guy that made things right as necessary and gave me good customer service. Ride height in the rear as shown. Their stub axles to convert the Corvette 33-spline ZR1 hubs to Porsche 108mm 930 CVs worked perfectly and I get juuuuuuust enough droop out of the axles to get the back tires off under the lower fenderwell opening.

Got a new trans cooler as well so I will be mounting that down under the trunk to the frame right behind the transaxle, and some thick aluminum engine mounts I can use to mount the engine over to the suspension uprights.

My batteries are going in the camera apparently - the images get a bit jittery when that happens, but some updates are attached nonetheless.

no go nova

11-27-2013, 08:06 PM

Are you running a dry sump.

Code510

11-27-2013, 08:54 PM

Loving this build!
:king:

byndbad914

11-27-2013, 09:32 PM

Are you running a dry sump.
yessir :) I ran it in the Porsche before and will use the same setup including the massive twin oil coolers.
Loving this build!
:king:
Thanks, I take that as a compliment! I was checking out your car at SEMA, nicely built, we'll see if I can get close to your finish work. That is normally where I get impatient and fall short...

Anchor

11-28-2013, 02:40 AM

Ah man! This is so much awesome!!!!

byndbad914

11-28-2013, 12:34 PM

... said by a man that is building one with more than 2X power :lol: thanks!

bonecrrusher

12-03-2013, 07:34 AM

byndbad914

12-04-2013, 01:09 AM

So is the engine from the Porsche?

I like the torque tube - I havent seen one hooked up to a SBC, or a porsche transaxle on the other end.

I am assuming thats from the P car as well.

I love the engineern and details behind this build!
Thanks! The engine and transaxle are indeed the ones I had in the Porsche. I got the new midmount in place with the front of the torque tube installed and as expected it all fit exactly as planned and I am seeing a lot more space for exhaust and so forth now which is good. I will not be using a torque tube to tie the engine and trans - I will let the frame and cage couple out all of the torque since they are all hard mounted - I am just using the ends to have ends to tie to and am going to simply tie the two ends together with a carbon fiber driveshaft. I am going CF due to the constant high rpm the shaft spins at since it always matches engine rpm in this configuration.

I beat the crap out of that destroked 400 over a 7 year period with zero need for refresh, so with that said, I am worried she may be on her way out and in need of a full rebuild. I ordered some 1-7/8" shorty headers for the build to make life easy for now and save on doing custom headers as I may just step up to a 377 (350 crank instead of 327) with a 15 deg head setup for the next build and sell off this engine.

More stuff from this last weekend, I cut the bulk of the remaining floor pan out of the way and kept the center tunnel to run the stock center console as noted in earlier posts. I will then build all new seat mounting to have a solid foundation, then will just skin with thin steel like a race car. The floors will then look less stock than I wanted but it is really the only way to go to make everything right - function over form. The Paul Walker tragedy over the weekend helps keep a guy focused on making sure it works right first, looks a specific way second. I think it will still have a wolf in sheep's clothing feel overall.

Fortunately I happened to pull the new vent/kick panels out and look at them while working on my pedal assy install - the vent is part of the panel and requires a good 4-5" of space outward to be able to install them! This means I have to be very careful of how close I get the clutch pedal and also be careful of how I intend to box the pedal assy in. For anyone that happens to notice that Jesse James still appears to have a limp on his left side - he was racing in the Late Model Series in SoCal when I lived there and was supporting some friends in their LM efforts (crewing, car work, so forth). I happened to miss the race the night he wrecked at Irwindale so I didn't see it, but heard it was pretty bad and it shattered his left foot and jacked his leg up pretty good. On the Porsche 7 years ago when I did the tube chassis build, I purchased some lower control arms from a company v. make them and they turned out to be crap and the left one broke on the track and shoved the left front tire back right up into the fenderwell just a few inches from my left foot.

So I will be boxing in the pedal assy with 2x2 tube and you guys can already see I have 2x3 in the frame there to do my best defense against losing a foot if something goes wrong and I wad up the left front corner. My initial plans had that tubing over in the corner, but I would never be able to install those kick panels, so I will be moving them inboard a bit. Not as optimal as I initially wanted but will be way better than a car would normally have for bracing so better than nothing. This will be clearer understood when I actually get it all welded into place and snap a pic.

byndbad914

12-08-2013, 01:02 PM

Got the Sanderson headers and some other misc parts from Summit last week :ups: These 1-7/8" shorties are pretty bitchin' actually. I also modified some SBC to Model T engine mounts on the vertical mill and they look to be a great solution to having a two bolt engine removal at the block as I can access the bolt between the header pipes. I had some old tubes with heim ends left over from the Porsche 5-link that I can then weld into place (can't see in the pics very well unfortunately).

I was messing with putting the oil tank up in the front on the passenger side but the serious risk of that is having it burst open in a frontal impact and engulf the whole front of the car in an oil fire. It is sketchy enough having oil coolers let alone adding to it, so I am going to consider taking some more passenger foot well and mounting it there. If I get it low enough I shouldn't have too much issue getting the cap off from the engine compartment and putting oil in it.

Right side shots also show, if you look closely, the fitting for the fuel coming in to the pump - I pre-notched the upper A-arm mount and that fits right inside of it. Final shots show what remains of the floor pan, which is to say the center tunnel and the rear seat shelf.

If it wasn't single digit temps all weekend I might have gotten the pedals boxed in but even with a garage heater it gets a bit much to stay warm out there. Every piece of metal is pretty much freezing temp and working with gloves gets to be an exercise in futility. Once I have that all figured out I can match it to the passenger side and that should give me more room for the oil tank and an idea of what tubing will exist to attach the tank to.

byndbad914

12-17-2013, 09:40 PM

I might be responsible for my local UPS man's salary this month :ups: Maybe I should ask for a cut. :mock:

Got a tubing bender Monday and picked up a bunch of 1-1/2" x .120 wall DOM last Saturday so it is about time to start teaching myself how to bend up a cage. I picked up my BBK at 3ZERO3 today and got home to find McLeod got my stuff out to me last week as well.

We will see how the "soda can turbo thing" works with brake packages. At minimum at least the Junior Nation has something to appreciate. The kit is the "extra big" BBK for late model Corvettes as I mentioned previously which puts the normal 355mm (14") front rotor on the rear then adds a 380mm (15") front rotor setup. I laid them across the front 295 width tires for some comparison but those may be a little dark to get a good idea. I really wish I had an old pad from my Porsche 930 Turbo brakes - the rear pads are probably twice the pad area those were.

The clutch assy is McLeod's 8" dual disk setup with alum "flywheel". It is really nice and light and the best thing about those setups are if you destroy the disk surface on the flywheel you just get a new steel insert v. a whole new flywheel or dinking with turning it. The TO bearing is supposed to be a direct bolt in for the C6 Vette so we will see how that all works out.

Flash68

12-17-2013, 10:07 PM

Lookin good Tim.... very good... that clutch looks Billy Bad Ass. :thumbsup:

coolwelder62

12-18-2013, 06:00 AM

Lookin good Tim.... very good... that clutch looks Billy Bad Ass. :thumbsup:What this guy said.:thumbsup:

GregWeld

12-18-2013, 07:11 AM

Wow! Nice parts!

preston

12-20-2013, 04:36 PM

Do you have any other examples of vehicles with rear mounted clutches ? I'd be very concerned about the harmonics etc. of a full length driveshaft spinning at engine speed. I believe there are some front engine race cars that have teh clutch in the back but I have never seen one and definitely never seen it done at the hobbyist/aftermarket level. I would be giving some serious thought on if you really want to be the engineer for this, doesn't seem like too much compromise putting the clutch up front does it ?

always curious to see what people think about the feel on those small clutches on a street driven vehicle, most end up not liking it but its awfully hard to ignore the advantages. I guess it will still be awhile before we get that feedback !

Enjoying your build, reminds me of when I was making many of the same types of decisions. Its all about the packaging !

byndbad914

12-20-2013, 11:37 PM

thanks all :)

Preston - the clutch will be on the engine just like a Corvette. That said, there are some cars with the clutch in the rear tho'. I think some Alfas had it and/or some Porsches. As for driveshaft at engine speed, that is exactly what Corvettes have had since the C5 among other cars. I am using a carbon fiber driveshaft (ordered it last week, will probably be done around the first of the year) which has many benefits but most importantly its lightweight helps to reduce harmonics and its stiffness to weight ratio makes it good for over 10,000 rpm at the length I am going to run at with the 3.75" diameter they come in.

These race clutches historically haven't bother me. The key is you can't slip them, so I wouldn't take the car out into traffic like commuting on a daily basis. I will just take the car out for a car show here and there or to hit a burger joint on a car night. If I still lived in LA I would have to consider something else if I wanted to roll down Pac Coast Hwy on a Saturday afternoon :D

byndbad914

12-23-2013, 11:53 PM

got my tubing bender last week and picked up a bunch of 1.5" .120 wall (11 ga) tubing last Friday and started figuring out how to bend tubes :hitaxeonthehead: I got the bender all leveled out as a starting point and then figured out there was about a 3 degree spring-back/relaxation, but managed to nonetheless hammer the main hoop out in less than a day and get it pretty square so I thought "this is a breeze".

Then I started in on the down tubes and I opted to go the hard route by making the tube extend from the main hoop all the way to the footwell to get me a maximized tight fit to the roof line and A pillar so I could keep my stock sun visors. Well, that basically took all of yesterday and most of today; I wasted about 28 ft of tubing and ended up bending 6 tubes to get 2, but I managed to get a really nice fit and I think it looks pretty darn professional if I do say so myself. The pisser was the compound angles going from the narrower roof line to the rocker width - when I figured it out I have to admit it was really obvious considering hindsight is 20/20 but an interesting learning experience nonetheless. The real beotch was getting the notching correct where the tube bent in to meet the main hoop at its bend. That took me 4 hours of nonstop marking with a pen, cut, fit, mark, cut, fit, and so on knowing that it should only be 2, maybe 3 rather squarish cuts. When it was done, I took the cutoff wheel and had the left tube in place in about 1/2 hour. All while making sure the rear window handles didn't hit the main hoop, the lower kick panels/vents fit and the vents fully open. PITA trying to keep a mostly stock interior.

The cross beam at the visors was about 20 minutes :D Straight pipes are about as easy as they come.

So after 3 days I have a 4pt cage tacked into place. The tubes from the hoop to the rear transaxle area are next on the list and should go pretty quickly I think, then tying into the forward bulkhead. Then I need to figure out the forward tubes and how I am going to pick up the rocker for the inboard shock mounting.

byndbad914

12-24-2013, 05:05 PM

among the items from yesterday, today I got the forward bulkhead all tacked in, original steering column support bracket modified to mount up with the new bulkhead, and pedals fitted.

In the last image it is clear I am adding some thin-wall 1x2 to bring the floor up in the car and to have beams to build seat supports off of. The nice thing about this is that under the car in that 2" area tucked up in deep will give me a clean route away from the heat of the exhaust and away from the driveshaft to run the rear brake lines down the driver side and the fuel line down the passenger side. Both are a straight shot to where they need to "end".

the first shots were to show the mirror-like similarity in the down tubes, then the cage tacked in as 4 points so far, the last few shots are from the day growing dark and my camera really hates when the lighting gets weird - close enough as they say.

byndbad914

12-24-2013, 05:06 PM

some that didn't fit above

byndbad914

12-29-2013, 04:16 PM

I ran out of tubing before I got both front forward tubes bent up, but I got one done and mocked into place. I need tubing for the door bars and seat belts as well but those will be easy. I order up a bunch of interlocking clamps to make the door bars and diagonal all removable so those are on their way - as for the seat belt bar I am trying to figure out if I want external clamps to get it completely out of the way for back seat egress or not.

inline interlocking clamps
http://www.kartek.com/Media/Images/Large/cam-clamps-apart_1.jpg
external clamps that will come completely out of the way but are bulky
http://www.synergymfg.com/images/D/PPM-3112-07-400.jpg

I might make the door bars have the same external clamping but worry about the rigidity in a crash. Issue is I don't think any of these items are SCCA legal so having a car I can run in Super Production may be out of the question. The joints that SCCA allows in the rules are straight out of the 60s and about as fugly as they come - I don't understand why they haven't updated the rules to allow for the much stronger, nicer, modern interlocking clamps but I will find out if they do by the time I am ready to tech the chassis. I can understand if they balk at the external clamps since they are able to rotate and tear the bar off in a crash, but the inline ones are as strong as it comes.

Nonetheless, some update shots with the one forward tube mocked in which gives me plenty of room to build suspension rockers off of, the rear down tubes, and I have the oil tank mocked up and feel really confident I can keep it there and it does indeed fit better with the firewall out of the way and back on my new bulkhead. One pic as the front tire turned a bit and even at full rotation it never gets in the way, but the rotation shown in the image is more than I ever expect to turn it. On the track I would turn less than 1/2 turn on any corner in both the Porsche and the new Vette and those have about the same travel/rev (around 2-1/8"/rev. The pic shown is more like one full turn of the wheel and I intend to limit the rack to ~1.5" travel (about 3/4 turn) with a 2"/rev pinion.

The third image shows an S10 rack that Unisteer sent me for test fitting - I will be giving them new dims and mount items I need and get a rack coming hopefully next week here.

Last shot I took the old dash display apart and cleaned it up a bit - really bummed because the speedo numbers started to wipe off with just water and a paper towel! Even so, I intend to leave this in there showing the 64,228 orig miles the car had before I hacked into it and I hope to replace the fuel gauge with a new one if it matches the ohm output of my fuel cell (I have a GM fuel sender in it but I think there are a couple different ohm ranges over the years). I have a carbon fiber gauge but want to use the stock one of possible and then get a Racepak dash and mount it on top of a radio delete panel in the center of the dash.

byndbad914

01-12-2014, 11:36 AM

been slow since the project was hindered by delivery delays, but since the last update I got more tubing so the other forward down tube bent and both are tacked into place. I also bought a chunk of 6061 alum and began machining rockers instead of using the welded steel approach I started with. I have them all roughed out and the plan is a buddy will finish machine them in a CNC to get the bore for the bearings interpolated perfect v. using a vertical mill.

I am going to hold off on installing the removable tube sections until I have the car fully welded and on the ground so I have half a chance of actually getting the tubes back in after removal (there should be no chassis settling). Statically the bars in question have little support for the chassis - it is more about keeping me safe in a crash - so waiting won't be an issue for chassis deflection when on the ground, maybe a few thousands of an inch here and there, just enough to make putting them back together a total PITA.

Did finally get the seat mounts and got them all mounted up on some 1" angle. I had factory Porsche sliders mounted on the bottom in the 914 to have access to the front of the engine easily. I figured no need in this car. Also, sliders are not as safely mounted as a hard mount. Now I am waffling on what I want to do on this car as there will clearly be zero access to the back seat without sliders of some form. I may figure out a way to rig something up on the passenger side so I can keep the driver side hard mounted. We will see. It is good for weight balance of course to sit so far back and with a deep wheel and quick release the steering wheel should come back far enough.

I also realized the other day that Ultrashield has a new version of their seat covers so I asked if I could still get the old version to match these. They were able to still make a set of seat covers and they showed up the other day so those go into the stockpile to be added at the end.

no go nova

01-13-2014, 08:20 AM

coming along nicely.

Flash68

02-13-2014, 02:43 PM

How we doin Tim? :superhack:

driveability

02-14-2014, 12:38 AM

byndbad914

You build some ass kicking cars ! I loved the 914 and see heart of it sitting under the hood of the new car. I am the guy (driveability) on the 914 club who had the black, flared V8 914 with the 930 trans and the reverse opening trunk. Looking good ! Have you seen my new 914 ? :D

Vince@Meanstreets

02-14-2014, 01:21 AM

yeah! Looking great. My new favorite garage build.

byndbad914

02-14-2014, 02:44 PM

thanks gents! Driveability, I do remember you and caught your project earlier this week on here. Should be a rocket when you are done!

As for the past month it has been on-off on the car. I had some travel with work and been clicking the OT clock as well (what the hell, I have to work for this paycheck?) so that has set me back a little. That and the near zero temps pretty much every weekend makes laying on concrete a bit undesirable - I definitely miss living in SoCal during this time of year.

But there has been some progress. I mounted all of the brake calipers and rotors and verified wheel fitment. Looking thru an 18" wheel and seeing nothing but rotor definitely is a turn on :D

The McLeod clutch surprisingly turned out to be a bit of a machining project given the sticker price on it. There were 6 aluminum spacers that look to be surface treated that space the pressure plate away from the flywheel and then there were nine .018" thick spacer washers stacked on each one EXCEPT for one of the six. That one had a .050" shorter spacer and only one extra washer :headscratch: There should have been 3 extra for a .004 difference but instead 1 extra and a .036 difference. Why shim?? Also on a few of the spacers, they were so thin they were able to fit into the threads of the 5/16" stud and pinch themselves so I am sure that torques up really well.

Not too slick.

So I got some steel and made 6 new spacers that were exactly the right length and dumped that mess of shims and spacers. I would like to have the new ones out of aluminum but I don't care to take the time to find out what heat treat those things were done with for the slight difference in overall weight.

Then I put the hyd TO bearing onto the torque tube section and plugged that into the mix - it was off by almost 1.5"!! Not 0.150" which is what it should be at max, but an order of magnitude higher. I wasted time instead of saving time having them send me a spacer that turned out to be .700" long, irritating story, so I ended up back on the lathe at work anyway making a 1.300" spacer to set the TO in the right spot.

While that is exactly why I take this stuff all apart and measure every shim and standoff, etc, it is also what cost me about 3 weekends.

Further, I ordered a new dry sump oil pan a few weeks back that will work better with this car than the one from the 914 and those are always fabbed per order/not stocked. The prediction was to ship to me on Monday but I have yet to see a tracking number. Now that the clutch is set I can pull the engine out, drill and tap for the mini starter and get the new pan on once it shows up and get rolling again.

My buddy at work has been helping me make some billet aluminum rockers for the suspension v. the steel ones I was going to weld up. I roughed them out and he is fine tuning all of the surface profiles in the CNC when he gets some free time on the weekends. So far we have a couple more ops left but that might take a month - free time is just that so I can only ask for so much of course.

Lastly, I am getting ready to order the custom steering rack so I intend to model up what I want in engineering software so they have a clearly defined drawing of exactly what I expect to receive.

byndbad914

03-16-2014, 08:18 PM

been piling on the OT at work lately which is fine in small doses but I needed a weekend off and between a cold day yesterday that was good for machining and a warm one today good for installing, I got quite a bit done on the rack assembly finally.

Going back over the past couple months of the car sitting, there were some photos in my camera so will cover those.

first we have the TO bearing spacer that I had to make to space the living crap out of the TO on the Vette setup. then the custom spacers I had to make to get the PP correct on the clutch.

byndbad914

03-16-2014, 08:20 PM

buddy got these done last weekend, turned out really nice. Sturdy as hell as I build it to live thru an off-track mishap :) The second shot is rough placement, I will have to work on shock mounting next time around.

byndbad914

03-16-2014, 08:25 PM

Set the rack up to just miss the mandrel for the dry sump, slotted the mounts for Ackermann adjustment from zero Ackermann to whatever I measure at full lock once the suspension is all in. Don't need much, 1/16" is a ton and I think there is enough adjustment there to get me from 0 to 1/16". The center take off (CTO) rack is nice because I can offset it and just make sure to build in the offset when I extend the tie rod bar. You can see the pinion box and I have some round bar hanging off to make sure I can clear the headers without a lot of angle.

I trimmed down the way-too-short one this S10 had and will extend out with round bar to the exact width I want. Finally, the last shot shows the tie rod is up near the upper A arm pivot, so I can get a good approximation for tie rod pivot axis based on the upper pivot axis to minimize bump steer.

byndbad914

04-27-2014, 04:05 PM

the oil pan finally showed up after over 3 months (quoted 2.5 wks back mid-January) so I am close to yanking the engine out and getting that swapped and the block drilled for the mini-starter. Sucks that it is the only pan I can find with a standard part number that has three evenly spaced outputs on the sump. The hold up now is waiting on Unisteer to send me the right parts - they sent the wrong ones a couple weeks ago, was supposed to send the right ones early this week, I called Friday to see if anything happened and of course nothing. And people wonder why someone who loves cars so much ran away from the automotive world as fast as I could when I got my engineering degree :wacko: Customers rarely believed me when I swore the screwed up lead times weren't my fault - they just assumed I dropped the ball. Anyway, old wounds open back up easy I guess. I want to have the engine in place next weekend when I have those parts (hopefully) and make sure I get the steering input I want without hitting any of the pulley items on the front of the engine.

I also bought some universal seat sliders from Summit and got those installed. The seats were sitting rather low in the car and I was going to quick fab up some spacers, but then just decided to go this route for much more adjustability. Racing series won't allow them but I decided I am not going to try to SCCA this car but just open track day it as I have for quite awhile now. W2W sounds like fun, and actually can be really fun, but I don't see the need to do it with this car at this point. If I change my mind, it is a matter of minutes to swap these out for spacers if I really feel the need. I also took a painstaking amount of time to notch the pedal box out to move the pedals further forward - all the gas pedal linkage was hitting otherwise - and then right when I finished and put the pedals back in I realized I could just move the linkage around and bypass all of that. :lostmarbles: So I relo'd the linkage and it all fits quite nicely of course. Hey, at least it is right in the end I guess :D

Got the rockers mocked up in and verified the wheels will turn enough and not hit anything. All about squeezing it all in. It will be easier in the rear of the car as the tie rods are on the back side, not the front. I also made another adapter for the tie rod cross bar to put super long tie rods in and added even more adjustability to get best overall Ackermann once it is all together and testing on the track.

Payton King

04-28-2014, 08:29 AM

Looking Good! Packaging is always a problem with these cars. Price you pay for the cool body lines.

byndbad914

05-26-2014, 06:37 PM

Been a little while and I just keep picking at it here and there. Had a 4 day weekend and ran out of welding gas on Sat AM, right about the time the welding shop closed of course. I knew I was getting low, just didn't expect it to go so fast :) Anyway, engine is out, new pan is on, a little massaging with the hammer cleared one offending hose end, need to order a forged one for the pressure in to clear the pan tho'. Also drilled the frame for the sway bar mounting and lathed up some ends to use bushings I get from McMaster-Carr. Did this on the Porsche and it worked really well. 1.25" Speedway Engineering sway bars will fit in nice and tight. Test fitting a link too to get an idea of how wide the bar needs to be. Getting close to where I just need to bite the bullet and get the shocks on order but would really rather figure out how I intend to mount without them, get the car on the ground on tubing and get real corner weights of course. Redid the mounting for the core support and that got me a cross bar that I can weld the radiator mounts to. I have another spot I hope to make my oil coolers fit but as a backup I have already cleared out an area under the core support to mount both of them.

dammit - all my pics need resized, I will add them another day.

byndbad914

06-27-2014, 07:50 PM

had the engine out for the pan install, got most of the front end all welded up as it is looking to be the finish product. Got the sway bar mounts fully welded. PITA getting both sides lined up and staying in place during welding so I have to run a pattern and move the welding around to ensure the mounts don't move. Radiator pulled back a little for example which is what it is but sucks nonetheless as I had it jigged to be tight to the top of the core support. Pulled back 1/8", nothing much, just enough to tick a guy off a bit. Looks like I should be able to mount the electric water pump to the right of the radiator (shifted it a little bit left in the car) and try to keep as much weight to the right as I can overall.

Other than that I hope to get the oil coolers tacked in this weekend under the radiator, fans blowing from underneath thru them. Once I get a splitter made and lower valence waaaayyyy down the road, they will be hidden and protected should I have an off-track adventure. I intend to make a removeable skid plate for the coolers and pan and hopefully integrate it all with the splitter for a single piece - time will tell.

For now, a couple images. Way back early on I thought I would lay the radiator down, tipped forward like I had it in the Porsche to keep weight low but the grill is really close to the core support on these cars and such, and with the oil cooler placement and where the alternator will need to sit, it just worked better to give up the fight and plant it in a more normal orientation. I also went ahead and hacked out the core support of factory metal as it was just not going to work out - I will get thin steel and fab/weld something up when the time draws near to actually drive the car.

Will need to work on the rear of the car a bit and have a plan to lower the fuel cell down a little bit more so hope to do that this weekend. Have a bunch of fittings on order from Summit to route the dry sump once the coolers are mounted, here next week, and some more fuel fittings to start routing fuel lines, so I hope to have a productive weekend and 4th of July weekend. If I can stay on current pace, it might be possible to set this on the ground in a month if I had the shocks :)

Redliner

07-15-2014, 06:06 AM

I couldn't help but notice the first picture you uploaded of a Chevy Nova II race car was that of Norm Beechey who ran that car here in the 1970's to terrorise the Mustangs of his two rivals Pete Geoghegan & Bob Jane. Beechey was the FIRST person to import and race a Mustang here into Australia. I knew Beechey's Mustang & that Chevy Nova well because I was then a teenage motor racing photographer who snuck into the pits without a pass to get trackside so I could capture my heroes on film. Being the first to bring USA Muscle Cars created the Australian motor racing phenomenon known as “Beechey Mania”, where crowds would storm the pits and maroon Norm on the top of his race car just for the chance to get close to their hero for an autograph.

So I thought you might like this one I took of Norm at Warwick Farm to add to your collection & to cheer you on as you continue this great build.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa356/0buthonda/Girvan/Beechey4_zpsf51b3cf8.jpg

I also have rare 16mm footage of this Chevy running at a very tight mountain track at Katoomba (long gone now), but the Chevy got beaten by two Mini Cooper S's. It WAS a very tight, narrow track and it WAS raining - but I'm sure you won't be bothered by any of Alex Issigonis' wee shoeboxes in your monster!

byndbad914

07-16-2014, 10:34 PM

thanks for the history on that car and that great shot! Keeps me motivated to get this thing on the ground soon.

as for updates, I had a "revelation" of how I would like to mount one oil cooler and shift the radiator way off center for overall weight balance and preferential airflow to the oil cooler, so I ordered a CBR radiator to move the outlets from the right to left side, put the filler directly on the radiator, and get rid of that laid forward design from the Porsche and do a standard, upright radiator. Same size, just relocating outlets mostly. Chunk of change to do that, but frankly it will be overall better to just go new in this case. THat should be on my doorstep Friday. I have the fuel cell mounting in place with a steel "blast plate" welded in under it over the transaxle in case that should let go, and have an empty Penske shock on order and should hopefully be here Friday as well to test run it at all four corners thru range of motion. Assuming I haven't stepped on my ding-ding and that all works out, I could have the car sitting on the ground with steel tubes in place of the shocks by next weekend. I am a little concerned tho' that the shock mount is going to want to bind with the rocker so I have fingers and toes crossed that is not the case. That would monkey wrench things if that is true.

assuming the radiator shows up Friday I will try to post some update pics this weekend.

Payton King

07-17-2014, 06:48 AM

That would be great. Someone needs to be making progress on their project....might as well be you.

byndbad914

07-20-2014, 12:23 PM

unfortunately Penske forgot to send the shock so they are going to next day one on Monday (hopefully). Interestingly enough, this is what happened when I ordered my last set for the Porsche. Anyway, a lot was hinging on getting that shock in for progress this weekend.

That said, I went to the track yesterday to watch Porsche Club and got to check out a couple Cup cars and sho' nuf they run spring rates in the 1500 lbs/in range as base setup as I had heard. The springs are marked in N/mm so I had to calc that out and it came in at 1485 lbs/in, so I am of the mindset to stay heavy on the springs like I learned on the 914. Considering those cup cars are 5 seconds/lap faster than the 914 was, I suspect there is nothing wrong with that :)

New rad is in, had to cut out the old rad mounting as even tho' they are the same size radiators, they aren't quite the same actual size. Added in the oil cooler and basically the nose is full of cooling devices. I am hoping I do not have to run the second oil cooler like I did on the 914 as this will have way better air flow than the placement on the 914 did.

Also mounted a ball valve for the fuel line so I can easily disconnect the engine. Lastly I made an upper cage that is tied together to mount the rear rocker arms to and tacked it in. Overkill for sure but safe. I can mount the fire bottle and/or battery in the recess.

Vince@Meanstreets

07-20-2014, 10:28 PM

looking good Tim,

On the spring rates do you know what ratio they are running on the cantilevers?

byndbad914

07-21-2014, 11:51 PM

Vince - I think you are asking me what the motion ratios are? If so, the fronts are struts so the motion ratio is essentially 1:1. On the rear, I do not know exactly what the ratio is but I believe it to be in the 0.8:1 (spring:wheel) range. I know they have to run stiffer front wheel rate than rear in an attempt to balance the oversteer and one guy in particular was having understeer issues with his Cup car but was more in the "enough money to track a Porsche Cup" category and less in the "know how to tune a track car" category :thumbsup: Were it mine I would have swapped out springs between sessions and solved the problem.

The Nova has two different mounting holes where I can set the ratio at either 1:1 or 0.8:1. So essentially I should be able to get similar motion ratios and the Nova will be a bit heavier - those Porsches are in the 2600 lb range with full fluids IIRC. I know they list as around 2500 lbs from Porsche but believe that may be dry weight. This implies I may need higher rates yet to achieve best results.

I can say that every single time I went up in spring rate in my old track car the car went faster. I was set to increase it again and then decided to sell and do a Nova project instead. I was at wheel rates higher than many people run in spring rate. There are two basic schools of thought (and this is a rather serious simplification but at the fundamentals accurate) = use the spring to control the car and the shock to control the spring, or use the shock to add control for the car along with a lower spring rate.

The difference is really the individual's ability to tune. I do not have a team from Penske follow me to the track like Pro teams do to revalve shocks based on track data but I can swap a spring in about 15 minutes per corner :D so as long as I don't move too far in spring rate and overcome the rebound control that is valved in it, I will have a similarly good car. In the end, I will never be as fast as having a team of engineers following me around, but I will be as fast as I can be if I focus more on springs and less on shocks. Basically the engineer at Penske told me he would set me up at near zero compression and let the spring do the work which is exactly what I did on the Porsche with them previously. Having the ability to tune in 0 to around 150 lbs/in equivalent compression is nice to have to predict if I expect to go faster with the next stiffer spring.

To make the discussion more interesting we would get into the characteristics that springs have a linear stiffness that starts at 0 lbs and increasing with translation whereas shocks have a stiffness that is far more dynamic and based on velocity of wheel motion v. total travel. That is where the engineers can come in and balance the overall setup and even tho' I am a degreed mechanic turned degreed mechanical engineer, that stuff is way out of my realm/expertise.

Al Moreno

07-22-2014, 07:20 AM

Holly Mother of God! Loving your build Tim! :thumbsup:

SBDave

07-22-2014, 04:56 PM

Awesome stuff here!

byndbad914

07-23-2014, 11:25 PM

thanks guys! Shock showed up yesterday and I did a test fit, there is some interference but fortunately it doesn't appear to be too bad so I hope to machine some clearance in this weekend and verify I am good to go. One thing I didn't recall is that the monoballs are narrow in these shocks - narrower than a typical monoball from Aurora/FK/etc - so my high angle spacers are too wide. I need to call them and see if they can swap them out for a more typical monoball with the correct width for my spacers. The rockers are already machined based on the "typical" width so I can't just narrow up the spacers.

The joys of doing custom stuff.:superhack:

edit - well, dammit, turns out I am too used to using heavy duty rod ends and spherical balls. There is a bunch of bearings that are 1/2" wide, not 5/8" wide. The problem is I can find some "wide" bearings but the housing also gets wider so they can't swap in. Will have to custom turn the spacers down and then make what is essentially washers to fill in the gap to make up the 1/8". Irritating but solvable.

tubbed69

07-24-2014, 08:13 AM

Tim you sure are doing a super fine job on this build,love these novas:thumbsup:

byndbad914

07-25-2014, 10:11 PM

thanks! now, that said...

MAKEUP!

Anybody remember the Daffy Duck cartoon where he kept getting his face blown off and would walk "off set" and scream MAKEUP?

Well, I am a little bit there. The 18" shock was just going to bind at full extension and that was not going to be a huge issue as it was just a little clearance grinding to solve. However tonight I got in there and got the base of it held into place and started to run the shock through motion into compression... well... I knew I lost 1" of compression asking for an extended eyelet at the one end which indeed minimized the binding as I had hoped. However, what I didn't realize is that I was going to lose another 1.5" with the extended spring cup - the shock body bottoms out on it! It all makes perfect sense since they have to be the same size to fit the spring, but not something that crossed my mind and was apparently a non-issue on the Porsche as I had the exact same setup on it.

I took a shock with 6.2" of motion down to a measured 3.8" and it bottoms out at about 1/2" of bump :bang:

So I will need to knock the mount tabs off and flip them over to move the rockers over the support, not under. Not a big deal really, just one of those things. What it does mean is the tubing I have cut and tapped for drop links to the suspension and could be used for the sway bars now all need to get longer as I have to fit a shock at least 3" longer to get full travel back.

Hopefully that is all I need to do; I need to really look at it again tomorrow and think it through some more and try to make sure I am not missing anything else :waveflag:

rustomatic

07-27-2014, 11:10 PM

This is definitely the most awesome thread I've looked through on here in some time. I'll look forward to seeing your swaybar mounts. We should re-name this thread Steel Porn--you are definitely a producer!

byndbad914

07-29-2014, 11:23 PM

thanks, that is a great compliment! :) The sway bar stuff will be pretty straight forward using Speedway Engineering bars and arms.

byndbad914

08-06-2014, 11:48 PM

I just received a formal offer from a company I worked for in SoCal today so it looks like we are moving back to the LA area :relax: While I am looking forward to being back to the hustle and bustle and beach air I am not looking forward to the downsizing on the house and being back to a 2-car garage. I will literally buy half the house for twice the money v. where I am at now but then again I will be within a few miles of the beach and never shovel fricken snow ever again.

I am going to hammer as hard as I can during the next month but then the car will have to go into the trailer for hibernation until I find a new place and get situated. We have 5 cars right now + the enclosed trailer so it is going to get exciting fast...

Flash68

08-07-2014, 12:44 AM

Well selfishly I like the news Tim.. as I will more likely be able to see the car sooner and run on the same track.

Best of luck with all that. Kinduva big deal. :D

Ron in SoCal

08-07-2014, 07:12 AM

Congrats Tim (!), I think?

:cheers:

byndbad914

08-08-2014, 12:35 AM

Yeah, it is gonna be a really good thing, just stressful trying to get it all in line. We have lived in CO for 7.5 years and I was ready to move somewhere else for about the last 5 but finally Kristi came around within the last couple so we have been wanting to make something happen. We were discussing Texas or back to CA (if Austin had businesses in my industry we would probably already be there); fortunately my previous employer just won a big contract and her old employer offered her a job as soon as she called them so that is all in order.

I really need the humidity! I developed allergies and all sorts of weird sinus crap living in the desert here and, as an example, we were in Chicago for the weekend last week and literally in less than 12 hours I was able to breath, my throat cleared up, and I generally just felt right! Same thing happens when I visit CA - everything clears up almost instantly. Austin last year was the same thing. I grew up in IA and worked farm work every summer and never once had an allergy or barely a sneeze. Kristi developed some weird allergies as well. So, heck yeah, looking forward to being back! Just dreading the house stuff - we ended up finding a really nice house out here but it is pretty much the only thing I am going to miss other than new friends.

I really cannot wait to get back on Willow Springs :woot: The track here just east of Denver is really nice and damn close at 60 miles but WSIR is just too cool.

Back on topic, the longer shock showed up from Penske today and the quick mockup looked promising tonight so I hope to confirm it will work this weekend and keep plowing on the suspension. I have to get this car in a trailer in roughly a month :wacko:

bonecrrusher

08-08-2014, 07:48 AM

OT - Allergies...

So you developed weird allergies living in the desert?

I was born in Ohio - grew up in the Chicago area - I moved to Charlotte, where there is plenty of humidity, and my allergies are off the scale down here in the spring.

I blame all the trees in the Appalachian Mountains - but what do I know...

byndbad914

08-08-2014, 12:15 PM

yeah, seems counter-intuitive but there are allergens out here that affect me pretty bad v. anything in the areas you would expect me to have them. I had friends growing up with bad allergies but I can go to CA or the Midwest in the spring and have no issues, put hay up in barns and have no issue, so forth. There are different plants/trees of course in the desert than wetter climates and they wreak havoc on me. There is some funky tree out here that causes Kristi's eyelids to get raw and itchy and my co-worker's wife has the exact same reaction coming from NorCal and this year it has been wet actually but that makes that tree bloom like mad. I have heard this year is the worst for allergies actually because we have had a lot of rain.

Maybe fresh air is bad :D We maybe need a little smog to grease the pipes hahaha.

bonecrrusher

08-13-2014, 02:59 PM

Crank up the SBC and kill the ozone/green allergen trees!

LOL.

byndbad914

09-06-2014, 06:10 PM

Disclaimer: I cannot be held responsible for erections lasting longer than 4 hours :D

Been a mad dash trying to get to this point... car is officially on the ground and ready to roll into the trailer! This is a pretty big milestone for me as it is the first time I have built a complete chassis by myself and did all of the welding as well :woot: Car has a nice ride height in the end; I wanted it to sit up a bit and mostly just look like a hot rod and mask the fact the central frame and all running gear is 6" off the ground and how wide the tires are. Unfortunately, pretty much can see how wide the tires are without much effort and the transmission in the back is pretty obvious, so I will definitely need to make a diffuser that covers most of that up.

I am really digging the rake that I built into it! The car is set up at exact ride height here with all lower A arms parallel to ground, the frame is parallel to ground, but as you can see, the car rakes down which IMO gives it that cool 60s car look and again, deceptive in that the frame is flat to ground. Of course, there might be another advantage to this, say, I dunno, 160 mph at Willow Springs maybe, the air might be pressing the car into the ground and expose any aero mods I might add in the future like a large spoiler to the rear. Maybe. Just sayin'. Not lookin' at a top fuel funny car and gettin' any ideas on body wedge...

Finally, stuck the old bumpers on it just to put them somewhere, I have new ones I will save 'til the end to install. Actually the pics are okay at best but not great, I will get more once I roll it out of the garage and get ready to winch it up into my trailer in the next week or so.

Rick D

09-06-2014, 07:47 PM

Nice work Tim, looks bad azz!!

Flash68

09-07-2014, 01:33 PM

Looks great Tim!

byndbad914

09-08-2014, 04:58 PM

thanks guys! Started working on floor pans yesterday, hope to get those roughed in the next couple of nights. Fronts are in, just need to do under seat and rear area, then down the road I will trim out around the factory tunnel and splice that in for a factory look and console mounting.

SBDave

04-15-2015, 12:18 PM

Any updates on this car? It's been too long!!

byndbad914

04-17-2015, 08:42 PM

it has been too long. Packing up and moving back to SoCal has been a rather large chore so the car has been waiting patiently in the trailer since last August :shakehead: We bought a house that has a nice sized 2-car garage but I still have a ton of crap in it and the Vette, so until I can get all that stuff unpacked and put somewhere the Nova sort of sits. That and the house needed some updating, which of course helped with the price, but takes time to actually do and that has been a PITA as well :drowninga: I keep telling myself it will be great in the end while it looks like post war Europe right now.

So while I wish I could say more, the day it went in the trailer was the last day I really even touched it. I hope in the next few months to get the last of the random crap cleared out of the garage as I pick at it each weekend and then get the car in, back up on the frame stands and leveled.

RC951

10-04-2015, 04:44 AM

Hey Tim,
I followed the 914 build the first time around (my favorite build) and was always a big fan of the youtube vids. I always figured you'd move on to another build sooner or later after reading that you wanted to do the same to a Mach 1....if memory is correct. I'm pretty excited that I may get to see this thing run at willow!

byndbad914

10-12-2015, 03:32 PM

thanks for the props. You are correct about the Mustang plan - I had a 70 fastback in the 90s and wanted to get another one and do a 500-inch engine build with a Pro Stock block and drop in it, detuned down to around 800-900 HP for a more streetable setup. But I also always wanted a 66 or 67 Nova and since I didn't have one before and a ton of Chevy parts from the 914, it won out.

Good news is I spent all weekend (in near record heat, not good news) adding a 100sqft workshop/storage onto my garage and hope to finish up siding and painting it this weekend, so I can start moving stuff out of the garage and into it. Then I can get the Nova out of the trailer. Just need to do a little more of this to the garage wall :superhack: Halloween will mark exactly one year in the house and not touching the Nova once so I need to get my priorities straight :)

Flash68

10-13-2015, 11:44 PM

detuned down to around 800-900 HP for a more streetable setup.

I like the way your brain works Tim.

Hope to see progress on this soon!

rustomatic

10-14-2015, 11:57 AM

In looking back through this thread, I found some firewall/pedal support ideas that I'm going to steal . . . for whenever I get back to my Falcon . . .:goggles:

byndbad914

10-16-2015, 10:18 PM

In looking back through this thread, I found some firewall/pedal support ideas that I'm going to steal . . . for whenever I get back to my Falcon . . .:goggles:
steal away! maybe one of us can get a project done then :)
I like the way your brain works Tim.
funny, reading my post again it is a bit crazy to refer to 850 HP as a streetable setup. Only 1.7 HP/cube at the 500 cubic inch range so while pretty easy to do, would make for quite a tire burner haha.

byndbad914

01-25-2020, 08:22 PM

Just over 4 years of radio silence. I spent right up until about April 2018 renovating the house in SoCal to put it on the market and move to TX in July that year. A year of projects with the new house including setting up my music studio and recording 7 songs, and finally dusted off the car last Fall. Spent 10 straight days over Christmas break hammering out details and welding. Then every weekend since plugging away.

Mounted the steering column, split and relocated the dash and notched around the cage tho will weld it in after I do the firewall sheeting, relocated the wiper motor inside behind the dash, fabbed up an exhaust, mounted the fuel regulator and water pump, went to PRI and ended up getting a custom steering rack from Coleman so had to make new brackets and start mounting that. I no longer have access to legit machines so will have to pay a shop to machine a custom tie rod mount bar that will have the ability to allow for Ackermann adjustments. Routed the cooling system from leftover Porsche project stuff so will get new hoses to finalize. Mounted the shifter for the sequential and the reverser lever. Will cut the shifter arm off and fab a bracket to attach a Hurst shifter for the right look when I put the SS console back in. Redid the pedal assy mount and fabbed up mounting for the fuel pedal cable and set it for wide open throttle. Refabbed my Holley carb mount to better align the springs and cable as that was always a bit janky. Crazy what can get done in 2 months, wish I had 6 months 5 years ago, would be driving it haha

byndbad914

01-25-2020, 08:26 PM

See if I remember how to add a pic

byndbad914

01-25-2020, 08:31 PM

Couple more. Stock speedo still fits, just out for ease of fabbing

byndbad914

01-25-2020, 08:40 PM

And getting that column in, dash set, pedals and seat all lined up was a chore in itself. I will be 49 this year and don't think for a second I didn't sit in that seat and make car sounds and spin the wheel like a 5 year old when I finished. Whether I even had my pants on at that point is questionable :unibrow:

Shifter thru floor while I worked that out and the reverser down low by the driver door to keep it as hidden as possible.=

byndbad914

01-25-2020, 08:51 PM

Can sorta see the exhaust. Bought some 4" DOM to create a pass thru in the frame for each exhaust to have the turn downs just in front of the transaxle. I gave up and cut the rear seat area out to get access to weld tne frame and so forth. Will weld it back in later.

This is what happens when you watch too much MAV TV... Ian Roussel convinces me that no matter the fact I have zero experience with sheet metal fab, I just need to cut things up and figure it out as I go.

The dash shot is in rocket orientation so just rotate your screen as required...

byndbad914

01-25-2020, 09:03 PM

Will get pics under the hood tomorrow when I am measuring the rack. I also came across a Rodeck block a few months ago so am collecting parts to do a new engine. Will be a flat tappet engine just like this one, actually same cheap cam will be used because I love it, so the aluminum block is more about wanting it than needing it.

byndbad914

01-26-2020, 10:39 AM

Old engine is pretty tired but will be used to run this car in. Built it in 05 and tracked pretty hard for a good 7 years. Last shot gives the idea of the set back... I wanted to just touch the cowl so pretty much nailed that. Typical 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag with the rack, cooling and dry sump plumbing on the front.

byndbad914

01-26-2020, 10:49 AM

Same 10lb problem with the rack and dry sump. The rack has the angled shape upper center of the pic. The mount bracket is just above the spring there. I have about 3/4" between it and the alternator pulley/upper A arm bolt and the 1" height of the mount to squeeze a cross bar support into there over the dry sump pulley. I can then offset all the pickup points for the tie rods from there. The good news is a pretty straight shot from the rack shaft to the column.

byndbad914

01-26-2020, 10:53 AM

Upskirt of the exhaust. Hard to tell from the 2nd pic but the edge seams of the mufflers are the only thing hanging below the frame at this point. Just missed having enough room

byndbad914

02-01-2020, 10:35 PM

Another weekend cranking away... have some tie rod items being machined at a local shop so got around to reinforcing the lower control arms and relocating the pickup points better suited to the rocker arms. Round tubes are generally fine since they have the pickup points way out to not bend them but my dealio needed a set back so I added 1.5" square tube to the outside and plug welded it together. In the future if I need a new one I will have Coleman just ship me the tab so I don't have to cut them off and notch around the leftover base. Coleman makes nice stuff to jigs so better to sleeve it than go from scratch in my garage. Will be rigid as heck doubled up.

byndbad914

02-02-2020, 06:12 PM

More work on the camouflage... tucking the sequential mechanism into the console. Hurst handle looks old school trick. Will have to bring the cable thru the interior but can tuck it by the seat and hide it with a cover and carpet.

byndbad914

02-05-2020, 09:48 PM

Picked up the cross bar and tie rod mounts from the machine shop today. Will need to put it in the car as a separate piece so just fitted together here for the pix. The 3 holes allow me to adjust the tie rod rotation point if I change the upper A length for different camber gain. I can space the tie rod off of the bracket to alter Ackermann.

Flash68

02-05-2020, 11:14 PM

Love that you are back on this!

:RunninDog:

rustomatic

02-07-2020, 04:12 PM

I so dig this build--good to see it back in action, so a "me too" is in order. It's so cute that you're thinking of interior styling at this point . . .:weld:

WSSix

02-07-2020, 07:23 PM

Congrats on not giving up on it. Glad to see progress, too.

byndbad914

02-09-2020, 01:17 PM

Hey guys, yeah glad to be back on it...

Not much to update, got the rack in with the new adapters, all fits pretty well. Ordered Ujoints and DD bar for the steering and some swaged tubes to make tie rods and the rocker struts.

Here is an adapter shot after install... the too short tube hanging out is the tie rod angle

byndbad914

02-09-2020, 01:31 PM

Down shot showing Ackermann angle. I can space it back for more once I see how it is on the track. I am a bit amazed when I see guys use a drag setup for street use or especially track use as most put the rack way out in front which totally jacks the Ackermann up. Not a problem for straight line use of course so fine for drag racing. Anyway, I always run some amount of Ackermann to get the car right for tight corners or it will just plow like crazy.

That said, it is a bit interesting to go to the Indy car museum and see the crazy variations over the decades on Ackermann including negative but most run some amount of gain

rixtrix1

02-13-2020, 11:54 PM

Just ran through this whole build over the last 2 days. Great stuff and good to see you've stayed on it over the years and all the moves! Keeps me excited to get going on my project. My '66 Malibu's been permanently in the garage since about 1996 as I've been collecting parts through 2 rear suspension build ideas, drag to track, and collecting parts for every system under the sun. Your design, engineer and build ideas are way ahead of what I can do, but the whole idea is to get it running, on track and having fun driving it. Amazing how fast time flies when life gets in the way! Keep at it!

byndbad914

02-16-2020, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the encouragement Ric. Hope reading it helps to keep you moving along as well. I think I eluded to this before, but the past couple years I came across Full Custom Garage and actually really like that show as it's just Ian, mostly focused on actual work on a car or project, and no fake drama like the other shows with stupid people saying stupid things with about 10 mins of actual fab content. Unfortunately the latest season is starting to turn as he brings in side kicks but long story short... got me super motivated to just get rolling and trying my own sheet metal work.

So, as such, the joys of buying a used car that had floor pan work... I have NO idea what this tunnel is out of but I don't think it's 66 Nova. The tunnel cover sure as hell isn't. I had no idea it was wrong but the console just would not sit right so I started searching the net for floor picks with a 4 spd. Not actually that easy to get detail but it became clear the hump was totally wrong so I ordered one online. The floor was so hacked I have basically had to graft this new hump to the old one. DAPO strikes again.

Also relocated the mechanism again as I raised it higher now the tunnel makes sense. Getting a little closer each weekend!

byndbad914

02-16-2020, 08:21 PM

Oh, and as for ideas Ric, most of what this build is I have never done before so this is all a bit of "hold my beer" so I say get on the Malibu! I really dig those and like the Novas, love the 66 and 67.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 06:24 PM

I'm not dead.... I feel happy! (always need a Monty Python reference)

So, let's see, bought the Nova as a roller about a decade ago, then moved to two different states for a total of 3 moves since then, refurbed a house in one, lived in another a couple years here in Tejas, ended up building a custom house now, so after all that nonsense, finally have room to spread out and get some stuff done. Had a ton of PTO saved up at work and the hammer came down this year to use it, so I took a month off from Dec 6- Jan 9th and made this a full time job, only took off Xmas and the first week for another project I started a year ago on a Pantera. That is a whole nuther deal and I am traveling to CA about every other month and working that deal.

But, during that first week of the thrash in CA I also worked on an all alum Rodeck block setup I started for the Nova. Bought the block 3 yrs ago so that's how that progress has gone as well. Sneak peak but honestly really simple combo with the same solid tappet cam I have in the current engine, just a bit bigger with 3.5" stroke instead of 3.25" like the current engine.

I will be putting a belt drive on it when I am out there next week and hopefully get the heads fully installed and the shaft mounts lashed and ready. Rumor is my intake may be ported and ready as well... we'll see. I have had a hell of a time getting the engine to this point cuz nothing aftermarket actually fits anymore - it all takes a crap ton of work to make fit.

not sure why it shows up sideways here, so just do the confused dog thing and cock your head to the left - it is normally how I am looking at it while I try to get stuff to bolt together.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 06:28 PM

best purchase ever is the 2-post lift. Here is where I started back around Thanksgiving getting ready for the push. then primary goal was just getting the thing hotwired to fire the engine after it has sat for a decade. so throw some gauges on the cowl, drop a battery in front of it, make noise!

I went thru a whole list of things you should do when something has sat that long and in the end she fired up instantly.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 06:36 PM

then the fun stuff - started working all the sheet metal which is something I have never done before. Peanut gallery can feel free to sit this one out - I figure this out as I go and when I feel it is good enough, that's as far as it's going to go regardless of whatever snarky comment could be made. I bend things on my leg, over a tire, tack it in at whatever temp and speed won't blow holes thru it, so forth. I am considered a pro at some things, this isn't gonna be one of 'em anytime soon.

started on the wheel tubs in the rear to widen the factory stuff enough to fit the 335s. it looks as good in person as the photos so good thing it is in the trunk ;) filled in all the areas I hacked out as well.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 06:50 PM

BTW, there will be a ton of seam sealer purchased at some point in the future haha.

Interior floors are a mix of screw in panels and welded panels. The main "floor boards" in front of the seats I will keep removable in case I ever need to do some surgery on the car or get under the dash with it up on the lift. Firewall has all welded in panels, some are thick like where feet will be since I like having them should things go wrong. Panels under the seats cuz I like my testicals as much as I like my feet, maybe a bit more ;) Pulled off keeping the factory center tunnel so the console will still fit and look stock-ish.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 07:01 PM

more pix

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 07:12 PM

started on the dash. Some may recall I had built the chassis to be able to lift the body off to final weld the cage and paint the chassis separately, but frankly I decided that ain't gonna happen without it taking another 10 years, so I just decided to start finishing it and will just cut holes in the roof to final weld the cage or reskin it like everyone else does.

So in goes the dash. I noted back in 2019 I was going to set it back and wrap it around the cage. Yeah, I warped it a bit welding it back together cuz it's so thin, but that can be "fixed" when it comes time to paint it. No matter what, bondo cures all ailments if it can't be heated and hammered out by a better skilled body guy.

I did the cut thru the glove box so I could use the glove box door hinge to reset the gaps and make sure it would fit right after install.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 07:21 PM

s'more of the dash. between my knees, a spare tire, and whatever random tubing I had laying around, got the endcaps to blend pretty nicely around the roll bar and left enough gap that the door seals will still fit onto their lip/seam.

there still needs to be a little work to tightly close out to the cage and so forth, but that is minor stuff I will deal with just before I am actually ready to paint. Main focus now is to just get this thing blasting up and down the road in the next couple months. will have to wear my helmet without a windshield so the neighbors will likely think I am "special".

if there is any random shots with underwear in them, hey, rags is rags and I have no shame

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 07:31 PM

rear seat area - I am hell bent to keep the option open to install a factory rear seat when that day comes. will have to be modded for the wheelwells or just all made from scratch, but I have kept the lower pan and the rear package tray (or whatever it's called) with the seat hangers. Made creating a removable closeout panel a total PITA tho'.

the first pic shows a couple sh!t panels that are what happens when it's late after 10hrs of thrashing, making it up as you go gets a bit hustled, then you see later pics with a much better idea the next morning. People scoff at the little tacks, but it was a complete MF'er to get those little panels cut out, so bad ideas make bad mornings.

then a couple shots of the shop after a solid 2.5 wks of thrashing (pix taken Jan 3rd) and go back to that first shot I posted with the car up on the lift around Thanksgiving. It isn't getting any better as I keep going... anybody think I can salvage that wheelbarrow?

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 07:41 PM

threw the front together a bit with the bumper and got it on the scales to start doing the frequency math to pick springs to then be able to order shocks from Penske that match that spring selection. This little piggy may need to go to market - fricken tubing adds safety and rigidity but it adds weight in equal amounts. Good news is with the big engine setback and rear mounted transaxle, it is right at 50/50. Reality is it might get a bit heavier percentage on the nose because the hood was off (carbon fiber, so not burly like the stocker, but not zero either), the grill, etc. But interior is going to all go right in the center.

That said, this is going to hit 3200 lbs pretty fast and likely keep going. That Porsche I had was just under 2800 lbs complete with fluids and track ready, so this car is going to feel sluggish. But I ain't getting younger so prolly will be a welcome change - that car was a blast but a total handful at the same time with the power to weight ratio it had and much shorter wheelbase.

pay no attention to cross weight - that will all get sorted once the adjustable shocks replace the solid rods it sits on now

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 07:59 PM

so the first step for weight savings in this round of work is to get a lithium battery and start thinking about the wiring. I need to be a bit careful on wiring since I will need to strip this car completely to finish weld, paint, etc.

I bought an American Autowire kit for the car back when this all started. It is not quite as advertised which I will get to. We have a spare bedroom where I can jam without firing up all my studio equip which is now where I exploded wiring everywhere. There is a fair amount of wiring that I will be deleting but I knew that and that is easy to deal with. The engine harness is laying around the corner but that is one that will get pared way down since my ignition stuff is inside the car for example.

What blew my mind is that there is very little in this kit that was preassembled, cuz apparently there was crazy variation in the wiring of a 66 Nova from one to the nexst? Did the line workers build the harnesses for each car one-at-a-time? WTH.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 08:16 PM

now for the rant - I have to have at least one each time I work on the car. First thing I thought is I would install the instrument cluster wiring cuz that should just be plug and play for the most part. Or... not at all. I was losing my shizzle. Let's start with the fun stuff - check out the label on the bag in the first image. Let's pick out the things that are easy to poke at:

1. is it "Factory Fit" if I have to cut the wires to length and install all the end connectors in my spare bedroom?
2. Do you make wiring easy?
3. The bag says loose pc kit in the title... prolly not going to be something that is ready to install, which would be easy, and maybe even all built at a factory to the original wiring confirguration aka factory fit.

Interesting enough, when I went online to see if there were better wiring diagrams I could zoom for my old eyes to read, I found there were updates, which brings me to the 2nd image now: apparently they got enough feedback to remove anything about factory fit and them making wiring easy! This was the only chuckle I had during the cluster wiring process.

then we get to the little F'ing connectors I had to cut off a strip, get into my crimper tool with old hands and not sure it would have been much easier as a younger man, and crimp them successfully. This took a couple nights because within about 15 minutes I would go thru all the swear words I know in English, Spanish, and French and a mangling of those words together, and then would transition to the "make up words" phase. It was appropriate that "A Christmas Story" was on a month ago with the Dad in the basement. Yeah, like that.

Then finally when I got to the gas gauge: the 90deg connector to use was made undersized. Note the unused, different 90 on the left and the one I needed with the undersized holes. More cursing as I walked to the garage and got a couple solderless connectors to circumvent that problem.

Final image I assume is a factory fit wiring harness. I put bulbs in everything and used the battery to verify all the wiring worked and they lit up. I forgot there is 11 bulbs total when I bought a pack of 10 at O'Reilly, so the clock had to wait a day. Turns out it doesn't work, which I expected, but sucks cuz those ain't cheap. We'll see how the fuel gauge wiring goes once this gets into the car along with all the other wiring - I did buy a new gas gauge a decade ago as I knew I was going to care about that.

byndbad914

01-23-2023, 08:30 PM

finally this weekend got a day to mess with starting battery and relay install while waiting on supplies. I will be running two separate 200A relays - one solely to drive the starter, the other as a "main" relay to power everything else. I am waiting on connectors and 6ga wire to show up at the gate.

I will be running 1/0 cable from the battery to the relays. Then the starter relay will run 1/0 to the starter. This long run will only be hot when the key is switched to start. otherwise, it will be dead which is the safest way to do this. Makes overall wiring a bit tougher, but mo' betta.

From the main relay I will run 6ga wire to a 175A mega fuse right by the battery, then another 6ga run up to the dash area where I will power the fuse box and a 6 relay panel (that I need to get in gear and get on order).

The alternator will run a completely separate 6ga wire back to the battery and go thru its own 175A mega fuse.

Kill switch will activate the low side of the main relay and will in no way be wired with the alternator. Even I have made the mistake in my younger days of wiring the alternator in with the main feed, which means if the car is running and you hit the kill switch, the alternator can keep the car running since it is wired in with the fuse panel and you don't actually need a battery to keep it running once it's running.

So here is a pretty rudimentary start to the battery tray that will hold the battery, relays, and mega fuses. That's it for now but I intend to keep plugging away over the next few months of weekends getting this thing going.