Garage Floor Slope............

[wiedemab]

OK - I'm hoping that the group can talk me back from the ledge instead of push me over.

I've been traveling for work almost every week. During this time, I'm having my garage built. I had discussed (and really wanted) a nearly level floor with a drain that I could squeegie the water to.

Well, I finally got around to uncovering the floor to look at it today and realized that they put about 3.5" of slope across the 30ft bldg. (about 1% or 1/8" per ft).

I know this is standard practice, but it isn't what I wanted. I keep thinking about the fact that a 10ft shelf is going to be an inch out of level.............

So - - -PLEASE tell me I'm overreacting and that in reality it won't be a big deal! I'm really considering having it busted out and re-poured, but that will be hard to swallow financially.

I really hate not being around when stuff gets done.

[GregWeld]

My building is 30' X 48' and the floor is PERFECTLY FLAT. I asked for it to be that way.

All you have to do is to allow for your slope when building shelving or benches - or doing anything which requires you to pull a measurement off the floor...

It'd be a lot cheaper for you to just invest in a self leveling rotary level. It's a good tool to have anyway.:cheers:


Something like this:


http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-40-6515-Self-Leveling/dp/B0013497MY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1356463875&sr=8-3&keywords=laser+level+rotary

[wiedemab]

Thanks Greg.... Mine will be 30X44' and I also wanted it flat. I'm not sure what happened. I'll talk to my contractor tomorrow.

I don't want my toolboxes to not sit level and I have some metal pallet racks that I'll have to shim to be level. I know they can compensate for it when they install my lift, but............ I'm just struggling with the fact that it isn't what I wanted.

I can always level my frame table when working on a project too. It isn't the end of the world, but just not what I freakin' wanted! I know if I had been around when they were pouring it, I would have checked to make sure they were going to pour it level.

OK - rant over.

So probably not worth busting the floor up over, I guess.

[WSSix]

Possibly not worth breaking the floor up and redoing, but if you had this in writing and the contractor didn't follow it, I don't think you should have to pay for the full cost of the work. I'd be upset too.

[intocarss]

If I paid for something to be a certain way and it wasn't... I'd have them replace it at thier cost! It would suck to have to live with something that is just going to piss you off everytime you look at it JMOHO

[wiedemab]

I need to go back through the contract. I don't recall that it specified it in the wording is the problem..........

[GregWeld]

A drain AND flat aren't two things that go together....


So if there's a drain involved - they would have sloped the floor to the drain.


I do agree with Jer though! If the contract says flat - and you want flat - it will drive you nuts every day that it's not.


We jackhammered 50 cubic yards out of our backyard around the pool because it started to crack and the cracks drove me nuts! Only one way to fix that!


You see all the dirt area - and where the new pavers are? ALL of that got jackhammered out and it was laced with #4 rebar! Then we replaced it with the pavers. The jackhammering went on for about 2 weeks!

BUT I was happy we bit the bullet!:thumbsup:




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Fun%20Fotos/file-7.jpg

[wiedemab]

I agree - level and drain don't jive.... My thought was to have a drain to push the water to without having it go out my door and onto my driveway (especially in the Winter). I wanted the floor level for ease of work bench placement etc.. I didn't really care that the water wouldn't flow to the drain. My plan was to push it to the drain.

I will talk to my contractor tomorrow and go from there.

Does anyone have this type of slope in their garage that can offer some practical "how much of an issue it is" advice. If I'm going to have it fixed, now is the time to do it, before the rest of the building is completed......which will probably be awhile since we were just issued a Blizzard Warning :faint:

[Rick D]

Also something to keep in mind is what is code in your area? Maybe he had to pour it with the slope?

[wiedemab]

Also something to keep in mind is what is code in your area? Maybe he had to pour it with the slope?

Yeah, that is one of the things that I want to verify. He may not have had a choice. I haven't talked to him since they poured it. I didn't want to bother him around the holidays and frankly, I've just been busy too.

I'm just hoping that it isn't something that I will curse every time I go to move my tool box around or move a vehicle around on casters etc.. I'm going to go check Dad's shop to see what it has as a reference. I don't think it is have much of any fall to it, but it may be more than I think - - and it hasn't really caused us too much of an issue.

[Ketzer]

A true effective slope to the drain could be a wonderful thing if indeed you do plan to do a lot of car washing, wet sanding, whatever. But like others have said, if it is not what you wanted and you plan to be in the shop a lot...

Every fire station I've ever worked at has pitched floors and at least four large drains... the low spot in the floor is never at the drain. It's always a foot away and you end up pushing water up into the drain. When I had my shop done, like you, I wanted a place to wash my car inside during nasty weather. I asked the concrete contractor if they could simply trowel an area about 20x20 to pitch down an inch or so into a drain. They tried and damned if it isn't just like the fire station, the low spot is a foot away from the drain!



Jeff-

[onevoice]

It is shocking how incompetent most construction workers are. In many years and many home renovation projects, I have yet to meet a true craftsman. My garage almost had the same issue, but I knew from experience to be there when ANY major activity was being done. My garage is about the same size, and I caught the concrete guys laying out about 1/2 of a concrete block's height of slope towards the door. I didn't know the spanish word for "flat", and it took some convincing to make them understand what I wanted.

I would have been very upset also, and the problem is that tearing out the floor and redoing will eat up more than the entire profit your contractor has in the job. He will do everything he can to avoid a re-pour.

The garage attached to my house was here when I moved in, and has so much slope a car will roll out if given a nudge. It is actually dangerous because the driveway is sloped away from the house, and the yard also. If a car rolled out it would end up 100ft away in a fence.

[Vegas69]

With pretty much anything in life, if you fail to manage, it doesn't get done or turn out quite right. If it was in the contract or you called to remind him, I'd say it's his bad. If you were to busy, it falls on your lap.

[wiedemab]

With pretty much anything in life, if you fail to manage, it doesn't get done or turn out quite right. If it was in the contract or you called to remind him, I'd say it's his bad. If you were to busy, it falls on your lap.

I know. ........

[Bad Bowtie]

Hey Brandon,
Just thought i'd share... I had a similiar issue when they poured my floor, I wasn't able to be home to oversee the work being done and ended up with a very level floor but the crew forgot to put a 1/2 drop at all 3 roll up door openings, so the concrete is flat all the way to the edge so now when the doors are shut and the rain blows against the door the water runs under the garage door bottom seal and lets water in (thankful it doesn't let much in). Just something i learned to live with but still dissapointing.
BB

[wiedemab]

It is shocking how incompetent most construction workers are. In many years and many home renovation projects, I have yet to meet a true craftsman. My garage almost had the same issue, but I knew from experience to be there when ANY major activity was being done. My garage is about the same size, and I caught the concrete guys laying out about 1/2 of a concrete block's height of slope towards the door. I didn't know the spanish word for "flat", and it took some convincing to make them understand what I wanted.

I would have been very upset also, and the problem is that tearing out the floor and redoing will eat up more than the entire profit your contractor has in the job. He will do everything he can to avoid a re-pour.

The garage attached to my house was here when I moved in, and has so much slope a car will roll out if given a nudge. It is actually dangerous because the driveway is sloped away from the house, and the yard also. If a car rolled out it would end up 100ft away in a fence.

The work quality is fantastic. They are local guys and have been great to deal with. I will probably have no choice but to live with it. My budget probably won't allow a redo.

[wiedemab]

Hey Brandon,
Just thought i'd share... I had a similiar issue when they poured my floor, I wasn't able to be home to oversee the work being done and ended up with a very level floor but the crew forgot to put a 1/2 drop at all 3 roll up door openings, so the concrete is flat all the way to the edge so now when the doors are shut and the rain blows against the door the water runs under the garage door bottom seal and lets water in (thankful it doesn't let much in). Just something i learned to live with but still dissapointing.
BB

I got the door openings done that way!

[wiedemab]

flat = plano level = nivel

Thanks for future reference...... These guys are local boys, and based on the last names....I'm guessing of German Catholic descent, like most around our area.

I was hoping that at least one person would chime in and say -- " my shop has a sloped floor and it really hasn't been a big issue". I guess most car people think like I do and want a level floor. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't there when they poured it to check to make sure it was done that way, which it appears may bite me in the ass.

I'm going to go to Dad's shop and check his floor. He has drains in the center of the building. I know his floor isn't level, but I'm not sure how much fall there is. It's harder to see when it slopes to the middle. If his is even close to what mine is, I'm probably going to just go with it. In the years that we've worked in his shop, I've never bitched about the floor slope........sooooo.

The other thing is, that even if his has the 1/8 per foot over 1/2 the building (sloping to the middle) it will be 1/2 the overall elevation change that I'm seeing since it slopes the entire 30 feet in mine.

I have a feeling this is going to be one of those frustrating and/or expensive life lessons. I know better too, is the part that makes me mad.

[glassman]

It's technically the difference between a shop and a garage, one with slope one without. I've worked on the1/8 per ft for years, don't even notice it. Shim the lift with ONLY steel shims, you probably already know that. IMO, the number one problem in the construction world is communication (how many of us grew up wanting to build/service).

[Track Junky]

It's the norm for a contractor to slope a garage floor towards the garage door so that when it is being washed out the water heads in the correct direction. If he wasn't told before hand to make it flat he was just following typical building procedures.

[wiedemab]

It's the norm for a contractor to slope a garage floor towards the garage door so that when it is being washed out the water heads in the correct direction. If he wasn't told before hand to make it flat he was just following typical building procedures.

I understand that it is the norm, but we discussed it.

I will talk to him this morning

[Ketzer]

Good luck today. Start with patience.

I know they make self-leveling products to put over unlevel concrete but I don't think it's designed to be a finished shop floor?


Jeff-

[wiedemab]

Thanks! It will be a civil discussion. I need understand what happened. .... like was said earlier, he may have been told that it had to be sloped by the inspector.

[pokey64]

Capping it with another layer on concrete may be an option to avoid the removal step. We did that in a 40 x 100 farm shop and it has stood up to pay loader and tractor traffic. Our cement guy said the key to doing this is a 3" layer of compacted gravel between the two slabs. (6” existing, 3” gravel, 6” new) They warned against pouring a second slab directly on top of existing concrete since it will just crack and crumble over time.

You'd have to accommodate the surrounding grade for the additional 8-9" of elevation. You'd also want to cut out and pour a solid footing where your lift is going.

May not work in your situation but sometimes it's nice to have a few options to kick around.

Hope all goes well with your discussions!

[wiedemab]

I've talked about pouring a floor cap, but the added floor height just won't work.

Anyway, I talked to my contractor and he has basically said he would make it right. He's a good guy that I've known for a long time. I approached the situation from the perspective that I had as much responsibility in it as he and the concrete guys do. I told him that I must not have communicated as clearly as I thought I did and he agreed that he may have misunderstood.

We left the situation with him promising to make it right. His plan is to continue with the framing of the building (weather permitting!) an then we can talk about whether or not I still feel the floor needs to be re-done. If it does, he said he'll take care of it. I told him that we could sit down and talk about the actual cost of it and make a fair and reasonable deal to fix it. I know this could very easily overcome any money he would make on the project and I want to be fair to him.


Thanks for the input.

[ccracin]

I've talked about pouring a floor cap, but the added floor height just won't work.

Anyway, I talked to my contractor and he has basically said he would make it right. He's a good guy that I've known for a long time. I approached the situation form the perspective that I had as much responsibility in it as he and the concrete guys do. I told him that I must not have communicated as clearly as I thought I did and he agreed that he may have misunderstood.

We left the situation with him promising to make it right. His plan is to continue with the framing of the building (weather permitting!) an then we can talk about whether or not I still feel the floor needs to be re-done. If it does, he said he'll take care of it. I told him that we could sit down and talk about the actual cost of it and make a fair and reasonable deal to fix it. I know this could very easily overcome any money he would make on the project and I want to be fair to him.


Thanks for the input.

Sounds like you handled it well. It sounds like from the description you gave that the error was a shared issue and if you are willing to share the fix, in the end it sounds like the best outcome.

A lesson to all those reading that are doing or going to do a project like this, if there is something that you specifically want and it is important enough to you to pay twice to have it, PUT IT IN WRITING! This is for garages, cars, birthday cake (LOL) etc.......

Glad it sounds like it will work out Brandon. Just to add, the shop we work in is 30x40. It has on floor drain in it. The floor is sloped to the drain. We just have to take that into consideration when we do anything that has to be level. We use screw adjusters or shims. It is second nature to us now. NO PROBLEM!

Good Luck! :thumbsup:

[cheapta]

My 30x40 home shop has the slope on the "short" side (the 30' direction) and it's never been an issue. I had to shim up the frame table quite a bit but I had to level it anyway so it didn't matter. I can visibly see the difference at the sills but, again, never been an issue. The cars don't roll away on their own, the toolboxes stay where I put them, honestly it's not an issue at all.
I've heard that the slope is per building code so that any spilled fuel runs out the door-I have no idea how true that is.

Peter

[wiedemab]

My 30x40 home shop has the slope on the "short" side (the 30' direction) and it's never been an issue. I had to shim up the frame table quite a bit but I had to level it anyway so it didn't matter. I can visibly see the difference at the sills but, again, never been an issue. The cars don't roll away on their own, the toolboxes stay where I put them, honestly it's not an issue at all.
I've heard that the slope is per building code so that any spilled fuel runs out the door-I have no idea how true that is.

Peter

Thanks Peter - - - I'm going to see how much of an issue I think it will be after the building is completed. It will probably be OK. I may end up deciding that the money would be better spent on more tools!! I know my contractor will treat me right on the price though if I decide to have him redo it - - we would share in the cost.

[Perry Mitchell]

My 30x40 home shop has the slope on the "short" side (the 30' direction) and it's never been an issue. I had to shim up the frame table quite a bit but I had to level it anyway so it didn't matter. I can visibly see the difference at the sills but, again, never been an issue. The cars don't roll away on their own, the toolboxes stay where I put them, honestly it's not an issue at all.
I've heard that the slope is per building code so that any spilled fuel runs out the door-I have no idea how true that is.

Peter

I say, get over it. You will never notice it. You won't hang your shelves at that slope. The contractor performed his work per industry standards. 1/8'' per foot equals 1% which is minimal. Most contractors can't get it that flat when it is supposed to be level. My garage floor is sloped at 1% and it is not noticible. I have a 4 post lift and two roll away tool boxes and nothing has rolled out the door yet. When you walk down the sidewalks in your town, you don't tip over do you? They are most likely sloped at 2% or 1/4'' per foot. Really, it won't be an issue for you. Sorry you guys didn't communicate better.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^ I agree.

[Ketzer]

Ok, maybe this isn't exactly relevent but....
When I had my shop built, it was a dream come true. I was very excited and sweated over every detail. It was a big concrete pour and it went well. The guys put a lot of effort into making it glass smooth for me. I wandered around on that fresh slab dreaming of where everything would go, how cool it was to have a little space for a change...

Then a seperate crew started on the metal building. Nine full days to get it put up. When I went out to inspect, 75% of the shop floor was solid black. They used a forklift with hard rubber tires designed for off-road to help assemble the high stuff. Nine days of riding around in circles, grinding rubber into green concrete. When I contacted the company, they were baffled!?! Baffled that it mattered to me!! "It's just a shop floor, sir. What do you expect?" I spent the next two weeks using a pressure washer and every known chemical trying to get ground-in rubber out of the concrete. No, it did not come up. Sven years ago, still have black tire tracks all over the inside of the shop.

I understand the OPs anxiety. It is NOT wrong to want what we want.
(GW is the poster child for this thought process...)

Jeff-

[GregWeld]

I agree with the "bugs you" part.... and it'll drive you mad if you let it.

This slope is so gradual - that you'll never notice it... and if you're doing something that is critical that measurements be taken off the floor - it's easy to allow or adjust.

In the 8 years I've had my shop - I've only done one project that I used the floor to pull a tape from. My floor is flat like my first girlfriend.

However... I FULLY understand the dilemma! I fired the "crew" that was hired to put up my "kit" building - because I couldn't stand their fitment work. Even tough this hack stuff was going to be covered I still couldn't stand it. I would have known it was there and it would have driven me crazy.

I still don't think the slope is one of those things that if you forget about - will come back to you and say "dang! I should have spent X to fix that".

Although -- I replaced my lift because I couldn't stand it -- but that is something I use CONSTANTLY.... and I won't buy cheap or offshore tools because again - I use them and it bugs me. But the floor? I grind on it - I drag stuff across it because it's too heavy to lift - I hammer on it... it's just a big azz anvil - it gets dirty and I vacuum up the mess and that's it. It's just there to be used. :D

[Sieg]

I say, get over it. You will never notice it. You won't hang your shelves at that slope. The contractor performed his work per industry standards. 1/8'' per foot equals 1% which is minimal. Most contractors can't get it that flat when it is supposed to be level. My garage floor is sloped at 1% and it is not noticeable. I have a 4 post lift and two roll away tool boxes and nothing has rolled out the door yet. When you walk down the sidewalks in your town, you don't tip over do you? They are most likely sloped at 2% or 1/4'' per foot. Really, it won't be an issue for you. Sorry you guys didn't communicate better.

Agree.........and some day that slope may work in your favor. If they poured it "flat" it wouldn't be and your lifts and tables would still require some degree of shimming to achieve a true level. :thumbsup:

[John510]

I have a feeling this is going to be one of those frustrating and/or expensive life lessons. I know better too, is the part that makes me mad.

You paid before the work was done? Dont pay them until they redo it.... Worst that can happen is you get a lein

[itsals1]

I see your views from both sides,as a owner and as a contractor. I own a garage door company in which we install garage doors,operators, sales, and service.
I approach every job as if was my own new or existing construction! I tell anyone working for us this is a rule, not a option!
"TREAT EVERY JOB AS IF IT WAS YOUR OWN"
Most of the time this rule has helped our business grow from word-of-mouth, but we still get call-backs. It sounds like you are very happy with the quality of the flat work, but wanted something other than the norm from what the crew is use to their "standard!" As a business owner it seems your contractor has done a outstanding job for you! On the personal side it's not what you would have done if you could have did it yourself. With that being said in my business I believe that you need to have some sort of floor drain in a shop/garage as it will be a useful tool in your shop. We see so many garage doors that are rusted and become mechanically unsafe to use because no drain has been installed. I think in the end you have more advantages to leave it as is vs. removal and repouring a new "FLAT" floor. Lets face it sooner or later you will have some sort of rain,snow,ice,or water in your shop and a floor drain is a perfect place for it to go. Just my $.02!

Travis

[wiedemab]

I appreciate everyone's input on the topic. Just to reiterate the point - -I am very happy with the interactions that I've had with my general contractor.

The more time I spend out there cleaning the slab off (after every snow!). I really don't think it will cause me any problems. Once the building is complete I will move a few tool boxes etc. in to make sure, but I will likely just spend the money on more tools versus redoing the floor. I may grind the form marks off of the foundation walls on the inside though - - just to get rid of the visual reminder of the slope - they are level and close to the floor and make it very visually obvious that there is a slope.. ;)

So far, they've gotten every other detail that I wanted right on. They poured the slab thicker in the bay for my lift and it has plenty of steel in the floor. I know they say 4" of reinforced concrete is adequate, but.......... I just wanted it to be overkill I suppose.

I'm getting really anxious to get the shop done so that I can start tinkering. I'm hoping to have it pretty well wrapped up by Summer (remember, I'm finishing the inside out and wiring it etc. and I'm slow!) and get started on my next major project.

I agree with some of the earlier posts - - If it is important, make sure it is communicated properly and documented.

[Sieg]

Enjoy your new shop, the slope of that slab compared to other shop set-up details is insignificant. :thumbsup: Air lines, power & outlets, water supply, wash basin, vacuum, exhaust fans, lighting, insulation, heater(s), high gloss white paint, storage racks, cabinets, work benches, power tools.........the important stuff. :D :woot:

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^ What he said!!!:woot:

[uppster]

What seems like an earth shattering event, will hardly be remembered next year. I say this from building experience.

[wiedemab]

Still a few things to wrap up.
-paint the exterior (when weather gets nicer)
-garage doors
-finalize electric service upgrade

I'll wire it, insulate, install the heat (radiant tube).

I've picked up quite a few goodies and tools, but I'll save those pics for later.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pLDcJ3dM-kU/UTAPcKO_VBI/AAAAAAAAIX4/yk-95Kn9myA/s640/Garage1.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nK4_OESsmj0/UTAPcdEl1sI/AAAAAAAAIYA/H5-o1KjGTKg/s640/Garage2.jpg

Stairs......
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LW8jyfaGmdI/UTAPcH_v4iI/AAAAAAAAIX0/TnterOl_aYg/s640/Garage3.jpg

I'm going to finish out the upstairs too -- well finished out enough, not Greg Weld nice or anything! ;)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ypeIB6OKQr4/UTAPbs4R4pI/AAAAAAAAIXo/b9A3FuiQxj8/s640/Garage5.jpg

[wiedemab]

OK - -one toy showed up today........... A littly tiny forklift (rated at 1700lbs). I just like how small it is.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-orJSDv4vdRc/UTARNmxsQoI/AAAAAAAAIYU/Nypc70OsWTg/s1051/20130228_180451.jpg

Not sure if this thing will be in the way or not, but my plan is to use it keep things off the floor and up and out of the way on a pallet rack. I want to put a pallet rack along the back wall with the first shelf about 6+ ft off the ground (so probably only 2 shelves), but that will allow me to put my tool boxes and/or a work bend under them and still utilize the space above.

Any thoughts on how useful this thing will be or if I'll just get tired of moving it around. I'm hoping for it to be useful!

I have few other toys in the works, but nothing finalized. Then I need to quit spending money on stuff before the garage is finished!!!!!

[dropit69]

Nice Brandon...many a times i wish i has a forklift but my buddy has a machine with forks so the times i need it i call him..if ya got the room id keep a designated area for it..make sue you put an outlet between the doors best thing i ever did with my old garage..my new on shop will get them too ..it has outlets on the outside witch are nice too..

[71RS/SS396]

That's a cute little forklift! :poke:

[wiedemab]

That's a cute little forklift! :poke:

"It's not the size of the tool, it's how you use it" - -says the guy with the little forklift! ;)

In all seriousness, I hope it turns out to come in handy......

[Streetking]

Looks great Brandon..don't let the small stuff bother you, enjoy!

[coolwelder62]

Brandon,Let me tell you.A fork lift no matter what size will be priceless.Probaly one of the most used tool's you will own.It's like having a bunch of friend's around everytime you need to pick something up or move that a floor jack won't handle.

[wiedemab]

Brandon,Let me tell you.A fork lift no matter what size will be priceless.Probaly one of the most used tool's you will own.It's like having a bunch of friend's around everytime you need to pick something up or move that a floor jack won't handle.

That's what I was thinking Scott............... might save me some beer. Usually when I have to call a few buddies to help with something they empty my fridge!! ;)

[itsals1]

That's what I was thinking Scott............... might save me some beer. Usually when I have to call a few buddies to help with something they empty my fridge!! ;)

:lol: Brandon,that's a great way to look at it,compare fridges of beer to the cost of the forklift, that way the wife understands the logic behind the purchase.!
By the way what's the model of that lift,I've been looking for a smaller one for our warehouse.
Travis

[wiedemab]

FB07 is what it says on the side.

[itsals1]

Thank you!
Travis