G-Body Suspension - ATTN: Marcus

[Buick Motorsports]

Hey guys,

Last summer I added the following to my suspension on a SBC equipped 85 Buick Regal:

245/45/17 Front
275/40/17 Rear
Suspension Techniques lowering coils.
Front QA1, 12 way adjustable shocks. Set at 6 currently.
Front sway bar, GM stock.
No Rear sway bar.

Being installed shortly:

Rear QA1, 12 way adjustavle shocks.
Front sway bar 1 3/8"(Hotchkis)
Rear sway bar 1"(Hotchkis)

I found the handling, last year quite good despit the lack of a rear sway bar. I know that with the other pieces of the puzzle being added, that it will handle great.

Is anybody running a similar setup? What are your shocks set at?

[sinned]

I see springs, shocks and tires. What about the rest? What are the bushings, ball joints, and steering linkage like? I wouldn't worry about a rear bar right now; it will have very little impact on overall handling anyway. They are primarily used to tune out under steer on cars that are otherwise set-up correctly. Throwing sta-bars on otherwise basically stock suspension is not a good way to make your vehicle handle better. What kind of tires are you running, there is huge difference in performance sized Wal-Mart tires and decent set of “W” tires or better yet dual purpose tires.

[white79bu]

I am running somthing similar on my Malibu except I am running KYB shocks(bilsteins hopefully this summer). My car has the 36MM hollow swaybar in the front and 7/8" in the rear. Let me know how the rear sway bar helps. I am thinking about going to a 1". I know that I am going to go to an r-compound tire or something close this summer. If you do that it will make a big differance. Everything in your setup sounds like it should work great. Let us know. Andy

[Buick Motorsports]

I see springs, shocks and tires. What about the rest? What are the bushings, ball joints, and steering linkage like?

Dennis,

let me be more specific....

I also inserted all the body bushings that were not installed at the factory, I used the stock rubber variety. I have triangulated the front frame with braces and also installed braces behind the rear seats, as I have a T -Top car.

Front ball joints, bushings and steering are all stock units at the moment. There is no unnecessary play in them. Rear tubular control arms are polyeurathane bushings.

Tires are Falken FK451's.

[sinned]

A better tire will make a world of difference when the time comes to see how it really handles. The 451’s are a nice “get me by tire” (read as inexpensive alternative), but are not known for their outstanding roundness or lateral grip when pushed, especially when hot. Most have problems with high speed vibrations that cannot be balanced out.

The steering and suspension pivot points are all OE in a 1985 vintage chassis and we think they are OK? I can tell you right now that they are not. You need to be replacing the ball joints and linkage, even if you think it is OK.

Poly in the rear bushings, please search that one.

QA1's are fantastic shocks, great move purchasing those. ST springs are OK, made by Eibach last I checked. They are not really performance springs as much as they are cosmetic springs. The rate on them is fairly low; 450ish IIRC.

Frame bracing always helps, smart move.

[Buick Motorsports]

First off Dennis, thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

I totally agree that the Falkens are a get my by tire. I will be upgrading these prior to any track testing.

You need to be replacing the ball joints and linkage, even if you think it is OK.

What is your recommendation here? OE? If not, which aftermarket company?

ST springs are OK, made by Eibach last I checked. They are not really performance springs as much as they are cosmetic springs. The rate on them is fairly low; 450ish IIRC.

"IIRC" please define, still learning. The rating on the ST springs are as follows:

Front 610 pounds
Rear 180 Pounds

[sinned]

First off Dennis, thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

You need to be replacing the ball joints and linkage, even if you think it is OK.
What is your recommendation here? OE? If not, which aftermarket company?Good old fashoined Napa peices will work great.

"IIRC" please define, still learning. IIRC= If I recall correctly.

The rating on the ST springs are as follows:
Front 610 pounds
Rear 180 Pounds
610/180 is a prettty hefty spring, if accurate that will work.

Whe you get ready for tires check out some of the dual purpose tires like Toyo RA1 or Kuhmo ECSTA series.

[Marcus SC&C]

Those spring rates will work fine. You haven`t done anything to address the terrible front suspension geometry. I`d suggest fixing that before you throw money at it in the form of bars and such because once it`s improved your requirements will change. Since you`ve got 20 year old stock ball joints I`d suggest our Stage 2 package with tall modular ball joints and adj. upper arms. The corrected geometry and new alignment specs make a huge difference. If you already have the 1" rear bar put it on. These cars have a great deal of factory understeer and the rear bar will help some. The installed rate is so low it can`t do any harm. As Denny said,so a search on the poly bushed tubular rear arms. They`re counterproductive. The QA1s are fine. We have them on one of our cars. They`re not what they used to be though (when they were HAL or soon after QA1 bought them) since they`re now being made in China with an eye on profit more than performance. Still good bang for the buck though. I agree with Denny that the Kumho Ecstas are a good value in a performance tire. I have them on my daily driver. I can`t speak for the Toyos because I have no experience with them. I can heartily recomend Michelin Pilot Sports and Bridgestone S03 Pole Positions though. Mark SC&C

[Buick Motorsports]

Dennis, Marcus at your recommendation I will put the Kumhos on my to do list.

With regard to the rear control arms. I am fully aware of the problems with bind that the poly bushings create. Other than going to a sperical bearing of some sort, what recommendations can you make.

Marcus, I will, in the near future, be investing in the Stage 2 system. I did in the meantime, based on a previous conversation we had, put -1 degree of camber in the front.

Marcus, what setting do you recommend for the rear shocks when I install them.

[Marcus SC&C]

For minimizing the bind in the rear I really like Currie`s CurrecTrac arms. They gave polygraphite in one end (yeah I know boooo hiss!) but a Johnny joint on the other. The Johnny joint is like a big weather sealed,spherical bearing in a housing with a polymer race and if fully greasable. They were originally developed for high flex off road suspensions but they work really nice in this application.In theory a Johnny joint on both ends would be the best way to go but both their testing and mine has shown that in the very limited amounts of flex we`re dealing with on a high performance street car the joint on one end does a very nice job of reducing bind while keeping the prices reasonable. We became a Currie dealer just for these arms. They`re still not on the website but we can get them any time.
So do you like the handling better with more - camber?
With the spring rates you`re running I`d start with the fronts at 6 and the rears at 5. If you like it more firm try 7 and 6. Mark SC&C

[Buick Motorsports]

Marcus, I had previously bookmarked the johnny joints. I have a good set of tubular control arms, so I was thinking of just buying the joints and having them pressed in.

On the camber question, best money I never spent! a local shop did the quickie adjustment for me, no charge. It made a noticeable difference. Hence my desire to acquire your Stage 2 kit and further improve my front end geometry.

I did start my fronts at 6, wow is all I can say to the improvement. i am definitely thinking of going to 7 tho. Thanks for a recommended starting point on the rears.

Lastly, I was on your site the other day. Have you stopped offering the firewall/fender brace? I was very interested in that as I have a T-Top car.

[ProTouring442]

Lastly, I was on your site the other day. Have you stopped offering the firewall/fender brace? I was very interested in that as I have a T-Top car.

If Marcus no longer makes the braces you seek, check out Kirban Performance. They are Buick GN specialists and have many braces for G-Bodies.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"

[Marcus SC&C]

Bill`s right,we no longer make the underhood braces. Honestly they just weren`t great sellers. It`s a darn shame because they worked really well on T top cars! If you go to the vendor section of montecarloss.com forums there may still be some pics from a few years ago. Feel free to copy them. Or gve me a call at the shop and I`ll tell you how. They`re not all that hard to make. Kirban`s underhood braces are better than nothing but they`re really small and only brace the femders to the rad support. Ours triangulated the whole front end and firewall. We still offer our HD lower braces on a limited basis. Mark SC&C

[Buick Motorsports]

UPDATE

I have installed the Hotckis sway bars and the rear QA1 shocks! Took the car for a little bolt this morning...WOW! This is a different animal now, it's a little bumpy on the not so perfect roads, but handles corners incredibly.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Marcus, thanks for your recommendations on the shock settings and camber adjustment. I will keep these the same for now and experiment with different settings in the future. Right now, I just want to enjoy the ride!

Jason