Need opinions : To cut or not to cut?

[ChassisPro]

Hey guys, I need some opinions. I'm trying to decide weather to mini tub the camaro or not.

http://members.nuvox.net/~nosstang/Myoldcars/Camaro/67camaro.jpg

Just to give you a little history. I've owned the car since I was 14. It's been restored since 1990. I have never had any intention to modify the car at all until last spring. I drove it to a local car show and realized that the stock car just didn't do it for me anymore. So I have dicided that if I was going to get it out and enjoy it, I was going to make it enjoyable for me. I picked up another sub-frame that I plan to modify for coil-overs, rack and pinion, ect. in the rear I plan on running a 4 link(that would be a bolt in design like the Ridetech kit) with watts link. The orignal plan was to turn the car in to a pro-touring car, without any heavy modifications. That way if in the future I wanted to put it back stock I could. Problem is I want to run a large rear tire. I know I can get a 285 under it without cutting, but I don't know if that is going to give me the look I want. I have access to a set of 295's mounted on some 18X10 wheels and some 335's mounted on 18X10 wheels. I already have a set of 18X8 front and 18X9.5 rears. I'm not sure the 335's would fit the wheels correctly anyway. But I think a set of 315s may be ok for the 9.5s.

So my question is, would you try to sqeese some 295's on it (with a little massaging here and there) or would you bite the bullet and mini-tub it and put either 315s or 335s on it?

Thanks in advance,
Scott

[Swain]

18x10 is going to rub. I would mini tub it only if ur going to go with better suspension up front.

You can put some 18x8's and 18x9.0' or 9.5's max also lower the car a little

Larger wheels will change the look a lot. 15's just don't do it these days

[Flash68]

But I think a set of 315s may be ok for the 9.5s.



I would definitely not do this. A 315 should be run on at least a 10.5 wide wheel. Ideally 11.

[Mkelcy]

I have a '67 RS/SS and faced the same dilemma. My decision was not to cut up the body, and only to do mods which could be easily reversed.

So, stock subframe, AFX spindles, Bilstein shocks, IROC box, SPC UCA/LCA, AFCO springs and adjusters and Hotchkis sway bar up front; Flex-a-Form composite leafs with swivel bushings front and rear, Bilstein shocks, Fays watts link and sway bar (if needed) out back; Hotchkis SFCs (I like DSE SFCs but, again, didn't want to cut the body) and solid subframe bushings.

I'll run 275-18's in the back and 245-17's up front - because that's what you run on cheap and readily available C5 wheels. Frankly, unless you're a great driver, you'll never know the difference between these tire sizes and what you want to run - particularly if you're contemplating a 40mm+ difference between the front and rear tires.

I have a '68 which has been minitubbed, and for a variety of reasons - not the least of which was trying to avoid any tire rub under any conditions - I'm running 295's out back. However, they'll match up well with the 275's up front and what I'm going for is good balance and handling, not the most impressive look in the parking lot. That said, YMMV.

[GregWeld]

Cut to cure!


Says a guy with about half a zillion ways to cut metal....



:rofl:

[John510]

335s on a 18x10? You mean 18x12 right?

Up to you man. Obviously if your on this site we will say cut it and if you ask on camaros.net they will say keep it stock.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Obviously you are not going to sell your car any time soon so I say do what makes you happy. Its worth the time and money. Plus the DSE tub looks stock if done properly.

[Streetking]

Bigger is better:) Cut..

[clill]

This is coming from someone with both Pro- Touring and stock restored cars. If you had a Z28, COPO, L78 etc I would say to leave it alone and find another car to cut on. But you have a RS 327 ? I would make it how you want it but don't start until you have a plan and the funds to do it. Once you start you need to finish or it will be one of many cars that are all apart and sell dirt cheap.

[Lowfast]

I say Cut!

[XLexusTech]

How does you shock tower and inner wheel house look? those are two common rust areas... if they are hurting then Mini Tub makes sense.. ( this is what i ended up doing because my tower's were shot.

[Ron in SoCal]

So this alcoholic walks into a bar...:lol:

(cut it :cheers:)

[Sparks67]

Hey guys, I need some opinions. I'm trying to decide weather to mini tub the camaro or not.



Just to give you a little history. I've owned the car since I was 14. It's been restored since 1990. I have never had any intention to modify the car at all until last spring. I drove it to a local car show and realized that the stock car just didn't do it for me anymore. So I have dicided that if I was going to get it out and enjoy it, I was going to make it enjoyable for me. I picked up another sub-frame that I plan to modify for coil-overs, rack and pinion, ect. in the rear I plan on running a 4 link(that would be a bolt in design like the Ridetech kit) with watts link. The orignal plan was to turn the car in to a pro-touring car, without any heavy modifications. That way if in the future I wanted to put it back stock I could. Problem is I want to run a large rear tire. I know I can get a 285 under it without cutting, but I don't know if that is going to give me the look I want. I have access to a set of 295's mounted on some 18X10 wheels and some 335's mounted on 18X10 wheels. I already have a set of 18X8 front and 18X9.5 rears. I'm not sure the 335's would fit the wheels correctly anyway. But I think a set of 315s may be ok for the 9.5s.

So my question is, would you try to sqeese some 295's on it (with a little massaging here and there) or would you bite the bullet and mini-tub it and put either 315s or 335s on it?

Thanks in advance,
Scott


I own a 1967 RS, that I owned since 1983. The rotisserie restoration started in late 2004, but a friend's Dad did the bodywork. I was also involved in doing the restoration, but I learned a lot more about the car. Actually, until you start cutting on the car, you won't know the condition sheet metal. I thought my trunk floor was solid in the rear, it wasn't. The plan from the start was pro-touring, because the biggest issue with 67-69 Camaro's is stopping and handling. Yes, it was minitubed and we have 18 x 12 with 335 size tires on the rear.

I have the DSE quadralink as the rear suspension. There is several different options available from other vendors, but I probably wouldn't recommend a bolt on kit. The original plan was to use the stock subframe with DSE coil over bracketry, but DSE later came out with DSE subframe. So, I do have a stock frame that is straight with coil over bracketry installed, and yes it was installed on the car. I sold the DSE components long ago, but if you need a subframe that has already been modified then you might want to send me an PM. The subframe is already painted black, but it will need the DSE components.

Let me know if you want to see the photos of that subframe.


Jeff

[randy]

how about this. Do some mods in steps that you can slowly transistion the car.

First lower the car. That will change the overall looks of the car alot and cure your mod bug for alittle.

upgrade to ridtechs tru turn system. This will allow you to run bigger rims and tires up front for whenever you want to run a bigger tire in the rear.

Upgrade your steering gear box.

now you need to decide to mini tub or not. Theres nothing wrong with running a c5 setup on your car. Im not sure if that will fit or not. atleast with the tru turn and some spacers you know it will fit in the front.


expect alot more mods to follow once you get the bug. lol goodluck

[ChassisPro]

Thanks for all the reply's, and suggestions.

I have a '67 RS/SS and faced the same dilemma. My decision was not to cut up the body, and only to do mods which could be easily reversed.

I have a '68 which has been minitubbed, and for a variety of reasons - not the least of which was trying to avoid any tire rub under any conditions - I'm running 295's out back. However, they'll match up well with the 275's up front and what I'm going for is good balance and handling, not the most impressive look in the parking lot. That said, YMMV.

We apartenly are in the same boat, sort-of. I started out only wanting to do modifications that can be reversed as well. That's the reason I got another sub-frame. Having owned the car for 26 years, I just have a hard time going at it with a knife (or plasma cutter in this case). Believe me I'm not afraid to cut a car up. This is just my baby.

I to have a 68 body that I plan to do a full on Pro Touring car out of. It was a tub chassis drag car that I bought with plans to redo the cage and chassis and turn around and sell. But have since decided to build a pro-touring car out of. It will have complete tube chassis and all in it.

335s on a 18x10? You mean 18x12 right?

No they are 18X10 with 335's. The customer bought his own wheel and tire and I'm just building the car to fit them.

Obviously you are not going to sell your car any time soon so I say do what makes you happy. Its worth the time and money. Plus the DSE tub looks stock if done properly.

I agree, I will never sell this car. But every time I mention mini-tubing the car, my friends threaten to cut off my arms. LOL

This is coming from someone with both Pro- Touring and stock restored cars. If you had a Z28, COPO, L78 etc I would say to leave it alone and find another car to cut on. But you have a RS 327 ? I would make it how you want it but don't start until you have a plan and the funds to do it. Once you start you need to finish or it will be one of many cars that are all apart and sell dirt cheap.

I agree, it's not a super rare car, that's why I'm going to modify it. I do have a plan, and have been acquiring the parts. I want to have everything at the shop before I start, because if it takes to long, my ADD will kick in and it'll be over. Ask me how I know.


How does you shock tower and inner wheel house look? those are two common rust areas... if they are hurting then Mini Tub makes sense.. ( this is what i ended up doing because my tower's were shot.

The car is solid. When my parents had the car redone back in 1990, the only rust was around the rear wheel well and the body shop patched it up. But you are correct, I haven't dug into the shock towers to see how well there are.

[onevoice]

I say do what you want to with it. Even though it looks nice, in the grand scheme of things, your car really isn't worth a mint. I was in a similar situation, my 68ss was bought new by my dad, and he gave it to me as a college graduation present in 84. No way am I ever getting rid of it. I did a minitub, and a 4 link that fits completely under the stock floor, the Alston G-link. I think some of the torque arm setups also don't require floor cutting. It could look completely stock again if I wanted it to, and you would have to crawl under it to see the top shock mounts to see it wasn't.

Be aware that while minitubs themselves aren't ridiculously expensive, everything else required does add up quickly, not to mention that it is kind of silly to have 335's without the engine to need them. So a few hundred dollars for minitubs and some labor can turn into a 20k upgrade including engine :thumbsup:

[John510]

Mini tub it!! Then add a Speedtech frame, maybe LS3, etc. You will never miss driving it in original condition.

I am curious to see how a 335 fits on a 10 inch wheel

[ChassisPro]

Be aware that while minitubs themselves aren't ridiculously expensive, everything else required does add up quickly, not to mention that it is kind of silly to have 335's without the engine to need them. So a few hundred dollars for minitubs and some labor can turn into a 20k upgrade including engine :thumbsup:

Yeah I've built several Mini-tubed cars for different customers, I was just torn weather to cut my car up. But yes you are correct, I have a 406ci that is going back in with the other modifications.

I am curious to see how a 335 fits on a 10 inch wheel

I will get some pictures when I get to the shop later today.

[Sparks67]

I am curious to see how a 335 fits on a 10 inch wheel

Well, I am interested to see it too. Here is the Pro-touring database, but I don't see that in there.

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?1008-Pro-touring-com-s-Wheel-fitment-database

[dirtshark]

Do you want the Trophy Girl or the Trailer Park Girl...335's :yes:

[MaxHarvard]

I say cut it. You don't have a rare car, so go for it. You will have to change the suspension in the rear at the very least.

[Mkelcy]

We apartenly are in the same boat, sort-of. I started out only wanting to do modifications that can be reversed as well. That's the reason I got another sub-frame. Having owned the car for 26 years, I just have a hard time going at it with a knife (or plasma cutter in this case). Believe me I'm not afraid to cut a car up. This is just my baby.

I to have a 68 body that I plan to do a full on Pro Touring car out of. It was a tub chassis drag car that I bought with plans to redo the cage and chassis and turn around and sell. But have since decided to build a pro-touring car out of. It will have complete tube chassis and all in it.

We're more in the same boat than you realize. I also have a '68 (not quite done) that has had the full pro-touring setup done to it: aftermarket subframe, Lateral Dynamics 3 link rear, DSE minitubs, DSE SFC's etc., etc. Having done it once, I wanted to see how far I could go with just bolt-ons.

[califconstruct]

Cut it, I did... my RS/SS #'s matching.. I know, I know.. why? I am convinced it's my car!,(thank's to several heads here on lat-g) I have had it for bout 11 years now. Its not going anywhere. I'm not selling it. I considered selling it, only cuz I was bored with it.

However, I did have an inconsiderate butcher it. :mad: Kills me to know It went to an inexperienced "plastic surgeon". Its been down now for 2 plus years. Mind you this was a running, all original, car show quality car, before I decided to cut it. It did have some bad rust issues that were covered up and had to be fixed.

Its getting fixed now, properly, but it did set me back at least a year and am glad I did decide to Mini-tub it.

So.. go for it. You'll enjoy the car all the more!. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

The whole put it back thing kills me. If it was that valuable, you'd never modify it in the first place. Cut it up! :D

[intocarss]

e8Zx0JJjM_0

[Sandbagger]

315 is too big fo a 9.5

[ChassisPro]

Ok here are some pictures of the 335/30-18 on 18 X 10 wheels.

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b635/ChassisPro/DSC00059.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b635/ChassisPro/DSC00061.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b635/ChassisPro/DSC00062.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b635/ChassisPro/DSC00063.jpg

[ChassisPro]

And here is a comparison of a 295/35-18 on 18x10 wheels with the 335/30-18 on 18 X 10 wheels.

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b635/ChassisPro/DSC00064.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b635/ChassisPro/DSC00066.jpg

[randy]

295s look better on the rims than a 335. Way to much bulge.

[Sparks67]

Looks like you need a bigger rim. Look at your tire specs and it will state a minimum rim width of 11" to 13". The tire is unsafe. Anyway, here is a post on this issue in the past.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-tires/174848-335-345-what-size-rim-needed.html

[ChassisPro]

Looks like you need a bigger rim. Look at your tire specs and it will state a minimum rim width of 11" to 13". The tire is unsafe. Anyway, here is a post on this issue in the past.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-tires/174848-335-345-what-size-rim-needed.html


Yeah If I end up going 335, then I'd get a bigger rim. These are some a customer had bought to put on his car.

Since I already have the 18x9.5 wheel, then I'll either do a 285 or 295.