Ferrari Reviews?

[John510]

Has anyone on here had any real life experience with Ferraris?

I know they are ridiculously expensive to maintain but are they reliable at all? Can a person with average mechanical abilities work on them? How many miles is too many in the used market?

Specifically an early 2000 360 modena manual. Like the one in this YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWql8rKQOKU

[Rybar]

My buddy owns a 355 Spider F1. He had to pull the bumper to do the clutch otherwise it was like a $10k job at the dealer. And he just did the timing chain he had to pull the entire motor!! I'm sure the 360 is similar to work on. His car maybe had 10k when the clutch went and maybe 15k on it now.

[John510]

My buddy owns a 355 Spider F1. He had to pull the bumper to do the clutch otherwise it was like a $10k job at the dealer. And he just did the timing chain he had to pull the entire motor!! I'm sure the 360 is similar to work on. His car maybe had 10k when the clutch went and maybe 15k on it now.

There has to be some sort of school I could go to in order to learn how to work on them right?

[Rybar]

There has to be some sort of school I could go to in order to learn how to work on them right?

I'm not sure, he owns a collision shop and repairs them there from time to time. I'm sure if you have mechanical background or skills they are just like any other car. Just the parts are alot more money.

[GregWeld]

I just drove an F430 in Italy (Monaco actually) and I can tell you that after a 4 hour drive on Italian coastal roads - I FINALLY understand why people like these cars and are willing to spend big bucks for them.... they're WONDERFUL. Silky smooth... quality feel everywhere... killer Ferrari sounds... no squeaks - no rattles...


The only snobbish sounding thing I'm going to say here.... if you have to ask - then you can't afford one. Fugidaboudit. The PRE 430 models can cost 1000's just to change the belts... So if dropping 5 or 10 or 12 grand on maintenance bothers you - or you have to put it off... don't do it. None of the later models are going to be collectible... they're not that special. Step up to a F430 or later (I would LOVE to own a 458 Spider!). They don't have the maintenance issues.

I drive an S63 and just took it in for fluids and filters -- it was a whopping $1600.... NOT 16,000!

[GregWeld]

By the way -- Ferrari has info on it's "average" customer...


The AVERAGE Ferrari customer has a net worth in excess of 10 MILLION

The AVERAGE Ferrari customer earns over a million a year

[John510]

I am definitely not in their average category. just wanted a nice car..

[carbuff]

Wait until you get to do the brakes on that S63. I just had them done on my C63. Pads only was over $900... Can't wait until I have to do rotors.:willy:

[GregWeld]

Here's how I do service....

I roll into the dealership - I ONLY have my stuff serviced at the selling dealer -
I give tell them a list of everything I want serviced. They always reply - but that's not due yet until "X" miles. I politely smile and tell them - Here's the list of things I want done... It always takes two times for them to get it.

I don't care if it's not "due" yet - I want it done. I also tell them - If there is ANYTHING the tech sees that needs service or changing or is going to need changing shortly... FIX IT NOW.... Don't call me until the car is done.

If you can afford to drive this kind of crap - then the last thing you should be concerned with is what piddly crap costs. I just drove into the shop with a $170K car - do I care that an oil change costs $200? No. Do I care if it needs brakes - NO - just fix it.

These cars are made to DRIVE THE SNOT OUT OF -- that's how mine get driven - that requires service and parts and they're expensive. Ya gotta know that going in. A Porsche or similar is expensive to own - everybody knows that... A Ferrari is 10 times that cost and way more frequent! :wow: :lol:

To me - it's like owning a boat and then complaining about fuel costs.... REALLY? Then sell the f'n' boat and stay on shore... :lol:

[John510]

Greg,
How often/miles is that $12K service? Wouldn't mind if its once every 1 1/2 or 2 years but if its 12K$ every 3 months that would add up quick.

[GregWeld]

I'm in the market (kinda) for a Ferrari California... my wife would prefer it over the R8 Spyder she has now... so I've been down to the dealer here several times discussing various things --- like Euro delivery (out - Italy doesn't allow it).... and options and order lead times etc.

We've had that "car guy to car guy" discussion about the costs of the older Ferrari's vs the new ones.... I knew they were expensive - you hear the "stories", but I was blown away by the expenses he was telling me. It's cheaper to step up and buy a new one!

[Vegas69]

I'm with Greg, if you have to ask or work on it yourself......

[GregWeld]

That all depends! Depends on how many miles you're driving. But the older cars - there's ALWAYS something that needs service. They're not known as daily drivers.


Drop into a dealer and just have a frank discussion about this with them. These aren't your Ford and Chevy dealers - the sales guys are pretty sharp... and they're car guys! Go have a good old fashioned face to face with them and voice your concern. They'll be very honest with you.


These are like big ol' fish killer boats.... Like 70 foot Bertrams and Hatteras etc... They're running Twin 12 and 16 cylinder high strung diesels - they burn 90 gallons per hour - and an Ad for one always has the "SMOH"...... SINCE MAJOR OVERHAUL... 'cause an in frame overhaul is measured in the 10's of thousands... :lol: But these boats cost 2 or 3 or 4 and 5 million... 50 grand is nothing. Fueling a 1000 gallons of diesel for a weekend of fishing or going to Bimini is something you don't even think about. Have another bottle of Cristal! :woot:

[GregWeld]

I am definitely not in their average category. just wanted a nice car..



Go drive one for an hour or two.... and you'll just get a second job! Have your wife get a third full time job... if she already is working two...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Flash68]

If you gotta have a high end Euro car, do yourself a favor and buy a Porsche. They outperform Ferrari and are a much better value if you buy used. And they can be damn reliable.

Hopefully you are not just looking for a Ferrari for the name or perceived exclusivity.

[John510]

Hopefully you are not just looking for a Ferrari for the name or perceived exclusivity.


Not at all. Ive always wanted a black 360 and was curious so I made the post. Ive seen them used for 70-80K which is a lot less than I have into my camaro. Just didn't factor in the maintenance being 12k$.

[John510]

Maybe Ill build one of these instead.... A lot less in maintenance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EM1LCrsVLY

[Ron in SoCal]

^ Absolutely love those cars. :thumbsup: Not a Ferarri though. Hate the seats and not many options yet...

P.S. Skip the 360 and get a 430.

[GregWeld]

Yep --- solve all your problems - just do a 430....

The service cost is nominal compared to everything that came before 'em.


Great car - plenty of power... light and nimble - just a trip to drive.

[Fluid Power]

The '94 thru '96 F355 are nice cars with low cost of entry. These still had the 6 speed manual without the F1 paddle shifters. A big advantage in transmission maintenance issues. The sensors on the transmission are extremely expensive and the first couple of years were prone to failure. Oil changes are expensive, but could be done at home, the main issue tends to be clutches. Depending on the mileage driven and how hard, they can last any where from 2k to 8k miles.

[GregWeld]

355: New Worlds of Technical Woe

The new, five-valve 355 series was offered from 1995 to 1999. It was a vast improvement, though teething troubles were extensive. In mid-1998, the 355 became the first road car to feature an F1 shifter, but early models suffer high-pressure pump and selector problems. If the parts can be found, expect to spend about $11,000 if you need to repair yours.


1995 Ferrari F355
The 355 Spyder power top can be a problem, since the windows must automatically drop, the seats must move forward, the car must be in neutral, the doors must be closed and the emergency brake must be on for it to work. If you’re over 6′2″ you may find yourself impaled on the steering wheel as the seat goes forward. Top problems can easily run up a long-out-of-warranty $5,000 repair bill.

355s often have faulty exhaust manifolds and valve guides that wear rapidly. An exhaust manifold replacement costs $3,000, plus $1,000 labor. But drive your 355 with a lean cylinder and you can face a $25,000 engine meltdown. Major engine work requires an engine-out service, which starts at $5,000.

360: Solving the Service Nightmare

The 360 Berlinetta was introduced in 1999 as the first V8 Ferrari with a three-year warranty, an indication of Ferrari’s faith in it. The 360 is a modern supercar with torque and power, improved braking, handling, and more interior room. Introduced in 2001, the 360 Spyder’s top comes from the company that makes Mercedes and BMW tops.

Breaking with tradition, the 360 can be serviced with the engine in place, thanks to a removable panel behind the seats. Early Spyders had to have the top mechanism removed for engine access, a problem resolved by cutting access holes behind the seats.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Since I'm no Ferrari guy - let alone "expert" (at anything!) - I got involved doing a little research. I'm OLD - I can't remember details and I remembered that the sales guy told me there was a major difference beginning with one model --- I thought that was the 430.... but it was the 360.


Not having to remove the motor to do stuff is pretty major!

[Fluid Power]

Right, Staying with the older style clutch and 6 speed makes it less prone to the problems associated with the F1 style shifter, clutch and sensors etc. With that being said, the motor must be removed to do a lot of service! I have a good friend that works as a service writer at an high end service garage. Dedicated and factory trained Lambo and Ferrari techs. He has guys always asking him if they know of anybody that wants to buy 308, 328, 348 and 355's AFTER they have had service work done, (mostly clutches) and the bill comes in at 8-10k! The low cost of entry, (nice examples of the models listed above can be had for around $50k), are very attractive to a person looking at new Corvette's etc. The owners crap when they have to pick the car up or stop in to get an estimate! Neat cars, but don't kid yourself, One has to pay to play! On the other hand, I have a friend that just bought an 2003 911 Carrera with 21k on the odo for $38k. Those are pretty bullet proof vehicles.

Darren

[GregWeld]

Good info Darren!


I'm just going to say this about the expensive repairs.... I'm trying to add "perspective" here is all.

I have some pretty expensive cars... S63AMG - Porsche Cayenne Turbo - Audi R8 Spyder....Range Rover... and owning a used Ferrari scares ME!


Not because I couldn't pay the bill -- or keep the car perfect... but because the repairs / expenses would exceed the cost of the purchase with just 3 or 4 "incidents". That just doesn't make any sense to me.

I think a guy is "smarter" buying a newer version and making payments than he is buying a pre 360 and getting caught in the repair cycle. That becomes one of those toilet bowls of "Well... we just spent X fixing X1... so I might as well go ahead and fix X2 now..." Then X3 comes along... and you've had the car 3 years and driven a whopping 10,000 miles? OMG!

[Vegas69]

Sounds like protouring. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Sounds like protouring. :lol:



It does!


:lol:


I think I've been in this "bowl" a few times.... :wow:

[96z28ss]

Oh man if I had Greg Weld money, I'd burn mine. LOL

Ron Tonkin Grand Tourismo in Portland is the oldest Ferrari dealer.
I think I saw a California in the showroom last time I drove by.

[John510]

If I had Greg Weld money Id go for this one....Scroll down to post #14:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/457145-white-ferrari-stradale-and-scuderia.html

What kind of car is that?

[sevillaz28]

Ok. So the 360 was my favorite one for a long time untill I had one for 3 weeks. Fast and fun to drive, handles really well but thats if your driving it for 100 miles or less. The ride starts to kill you after a 100 miles. The maintenance is outrageous and is in the $12-$15k range. You cant really drive it like its supposed to be driven. If you want to buy something really fast and fun that wont totally kill the pocket book, look into a Nissan GTR. No issues, really fast and drives excellent. I was working on one for a week and took it out to Sears Point road corse and killed everything out there. I also drove it to SEMA in 2010 and it didn't kill my back.

[WILWAXU]

If I had Greg Weld money Id go for this one....Scroll down to post #14:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/457145-white-ferrari-stradale-and-scuderia.html

What kind of car is that?It's a Pagani Zonda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagani_Zonda and http://www.pagani.com/it/default.aspx

[Rybar]

My buddy who did the clutch on his 355 said the parts were reasonable and the job wasn't too bad. He said it was mainly removing the rear bumper and from what I remember the price of the clutch was in the neighborhood of the higher end ones we buy for our cars.

John if you like the car don't be afraid to buy one. Ferrari guys are car enthusiasts just like many of us. Another thing to remember the 360 a 3.6L V8 and while quick they are not crazy fast and lack torque we are used to. The 430 is a quick car for sure but the prices are probably quite a bit higher and the 458 well that car is in another league.

The sound they make is unreal. Especially with an exhaust. Braking and handling are their forte more so that brutal acceleration.

[GregWeld]

I got news for you DB's! :rofl:


I have some money because I DO NOT have any of this kind of stuff!


:woot:

[Fluid Power]

If you want one, get one. I talked to my friend that writes service on them. His advice is documentation is paramount on any model you buy. No records? No deal.

Darren

[96z28ss]

I got news for you DB's! :rofl:


I have some money because I DO NOT have any of this kind of stuff!


:woot:

Touche !

[sik68]

John, there's an independent Ferrari service center here in Laurel Heights....he's popular. There are always 3-5 cars at his small 2 bay shop; it seems like he services 1/2 the F cars in the Bay Area. The occasional race car and track day car makes an appearance as well. I suppose the rich guys even appreciate a deal. He could be worth talking to :cheers:

[Fluid Power]

John, there's an independent Ferrari service center here in Laurel Heights....he's popular. There are always 3-5 cars at his small 2 bay shop; it seems like he services 1/2 the F cars in the Bay Area. The occasional race car and track day car makes an appearance as well. I suppose the rich guys even appreciate a deal. He could be worth talking to :cheers:

That is what my buddy said. Find a shop and go talk to the guys that work on them. Just call ahead and make sure they have time! :thumbsup:

Darren

[John510]

Hey guys are Maseratis and Aston Martins the same cost to maintain?

[Sieg]

Hey guys are Maseratis and Aston Martins the same cost to maintain?

Same shop(s) in our area. Friend (local judge) has a Maserati, other friends have 246 Dino, 355, 360, and a California. The one with the 355 which has 24K miles on it has killed him financially, shock $2,400, exhaust manifold $7,500, bad piston $10K, clutch slave which he's doing himself and having a hell of a time getting the right part.

The parts for the F cars are expensive and labor commands premium rates. I'd imagine the Aston's are similar but I'd probably give them the edge in reliability.

Get a Red Corvette and put yellow prancing horse badges on it. :unibrow:

[NOPANTS68]

My wife and I were at one point in the 360 market and I did a bunch of research. I ended up having a long tech chat at a Ferrari/Lambo shop down the street from our collision center that we outsource some of the weird stuff too. After a couple hours and looking at 4 360s he had in his shop, I left wanting a 911TT. The cost of maintenance versus performance was a no brainer. I'm no Porsche fanatic, but after spending seat time in both and examining the cycles of expenses for the mileage I wanted to put on the car, the Porsche was heads and shoulders above the Italian. A buddy just bought a 911TT with exhaust, HREs, and a tune for somewhere in the 80k range. It's a 2010 and looks brand new. No Ferrari in the 80k range could even dream to touch that performance and value. If you just want a 360, then buy it and don't think twice. If you're shopping- shop hard and drive everything. Good luck.

[John510]

OK so an exotic is out of the question since I don't want to pay that much to maintain the car. I want something I can drive about 3-4 days a week to work without spending 12K every 3 months on service.

Maybe Ill just wait for the C7's to come out.

[skatinjay27]

what about an r8 or a skyline ?

there alot more rare that a vette.

[badmatt]

ZR1 and call it a day in my books.

[Sieg]

what about an r8 or a skyline ?

there alot more rare that a vette.

:thumbsup: I'd love a GTR if I could get diplomatic immunity! :unibrow:

[intocarss]

I'd like a Skyline with an Ls1

[hifi875]

zo6 carbon edition and be done with it.

[fleetus macmullitz]

YT99FrIF_X4&feature

The driver finally utters those special words we've waited 4:25 minutes to hear... "Let me shut up now." and the V12 gets to do its thing for a little bit.

The 330 GT (2+2) version is wayyyyyyy more budget friendly.:unibrow:

[Sieg]

First Ferrari I had the privilege of riding in was a 365 gtb 4 like this about 25-30 years ago.
http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/la-car-concours-1971-ferrari-365gtb4-daytona-img_55.jpg
They are an unmistakable and romancing symphony of sound. The car ended up in Ron Tonkin's collection after 20 years of him courting the owner.

It was also the first time in my life that I witnessed 160 mph.

I love the cars and understand the attraction but they are spendy to maintain. If you can accept that the relationship will be a rewarding one. :thumbsup:

Had breakfast with my friend that just replaced the clutch slave in his 355. Stock stamped together slave $3,200, Ferrari Racing slave $595, took him 7 hours. So there are ways around the expense if you have the resources.

[67malibu]

I've been a Ferrari Dealer tech for 5 years now - before that I was a Porsche Master Tech - 360's have many more problems and higher maintenence costs than 430's - a 430 in every way is a much better car - But for the money a Porsche is a much better choice, the average person has no idea how well thse cars perform - you can PM me if you have any specific questions about these cars - Dion

p.s. GregWeld: unfortunately for us in the shop new Ferraris are available with an included maintenance program which covers services for the first 7 years!

[Flash68]

- But for the money a Porsche is a much better choice, the average person has no idea how well thse cars perform - you can PM me if you have any specific questions about these cars - Dion



Yes! Speaka the truth! :woot:

My 01 996 Turbo was a tremendously reliable car for nearly 2 years and 30k miles of commuting and daily driving. The only issues that came up were the direct results of me over modding it for more power. :lol:

Great cars. :thumbsup:

[Rybar]

p.s. GregWeld: unfortunately for us in the shop new Ferraris are available with an included maintenance program which covers services for the first 7 years!

That is pretty cool, I know a guy who picked up a new 458 and got this with his. The car is sick, ADV wheels and exhaust.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/Rybar/Various%20pics/170438_10150917805127321_52654120_o.jpg

[John510]

That 458 is :hail:

[crazycarl]

John, one of my buddies had a silver 360, I believe it was a 2000, and it was gorgeous. Maintenance was insane. Get a Porsche.

Go to Porsche of Livermore and ask for Terry. Tell him 'no hook up Carl' sent you. They get all kinds of other cool cars in there too. Terry knows his stuff and will tell it like it is. He was a Toyota Master Tech for 15 years and has a sweet VW single cab that's on airbags so he's not just a goon in a suit. I met him at a Laguna Seca track day over ten years ago. I wrecked my CBR like a n00b and he carted it home for me. :thumbsup:

[INTMD8]

I owned a 99 F355 GTS, manual trans. The car was fantastic. Sounded amazing and was just a blast to drive. YouTube f355 Capristo if you want to hear some beautiful sounds.

I sold the car to help finance my Cadillac build but would like to buy another someday. I have no interest in the newer models, f355 is perfect to me.

[toddshotrods]

This was in my "Just for You" weekly update, and I thought about this thread. I hadn't subscribed so I searched for "Ferrari" by user "GregWeld", lol. :D
x7tk8a0gEmo