Reinventing the OneLapCamaro... [Archive]

James OLC

09-15-2012, 08:19 AM

As many already know, the OneLapCamaro has been at Best of Show for the last couple of months getting some “tweaks” prior to testing for next year’s Tire Rack One Lap of America. I had originally planned to keep this quiet until it was “done” but as the project has moved forward I’ve had a couple of people asking for details so I figured that since some pics are already out there anyways so… here it goes…

Long story short – our performance at this year’s One Lap of America was really encouraging (in the big scheme of things). We were competitive in our class and, with the exception of a couple of “melt downs” (not always in our control), we were not far off of a really promising finish in most individual events, as well as overall. I’m well aware of the limitations of the car (mostly related to the front end) and as Mary and I were driving away from South Bend we started to discuss how we could improve the car for 2013…

I knew that we needed more front tire and better overall geometry. We have been talking for 3 years about changing the sub-frame but for me that was too complex (read expensive and risky) a change on its own – it would have required new headers, steering, inners, mounts, and cutting off the old one – so that was “off limits” for now. I also didn’t want to risk “messing up” the car by doing anything that could not be undone or put back. So we formulated a plan…

The front tires and “geometry” could be achieved in one of two ways – subframe or sheetmetal – and since subframe was off the table the decision was to try sheetmetal and so my first call was to the guys who I would trust with any project incorporating tin and paint – Dick and Jon and the crew at Best of Show.
Another piece of the puzzle was weight and we identified some of the heavier pieces that could be replaced or switched out – like the rad support and AC components – to take some physical weight off the nose. Carbon was off the table for me (I haven’t had a lot of luck with it) so everything that we were doing would be mindful of excess weight.

The third leg was Aero… David, Carl and I did a fair bit of background work, testing, and experimentation and determined that there were some (predictable) aero shortcomings with the car (in general) that we hoped we could improve on. I made the decision to change the front end (a fair bit), alter the hood for better air flow and cooling, and add some downforce front and rear. There is more room for experimentation but that will be in the future and on the track.

Piece by piece the process has seemed fairly “minor” but taken overall I think they are fairly dramatic. And… to be completely honest… some of these changes won’t be for everybody. Function is trumping form in most cases and that leads to some… different… styling in places.

The process started, predictably, with disassembly (well to be honest the process started with aero testing, wool string, and video) at Best of Show. I made the decision to replace all of the front sheetmetal – packing and boxing all of the original pieces so that they can go back on to bring the car back to “original” some day.

Disassembly:
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20083.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20085.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20086.jpg

glassman

09-15-2012, 08:31 AM

Good luck with this James, I've been reading Car and Driver for 32 years now and being a Camaro junkie, I am routin for you guys big time!!! Mike

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:09 AM

The first part of the project was the front end. The goal was to move the front tires out to balance the front and the rear track width and improve the inner clearance to the subframe – all while increasing the tire width to better balance the rear. As it sat the front track width as 2.5 inches narrower than the rear – most of that was related to the offset (about 1.5”) and the balance came from the difference in rim widths. We estimated that we needed to move outside of the tire out by 1.5 to 2.0 inches to match or slightly exceed the rear. This meant building new front fenders that would accommodate the space.

That’s not a revolutionary change with what’s been happening in our community for the past couple of years but we had a couple of specific constraints. I wasn’t going to do any bodywork behind the fenders so no reworking of the doors or quarters was in the card so the stretch on the fenders was going to have to be subtle and entirely done within the confines of the fender. Dick at BoS came up with a simple and efficient technique…

They started by separating the inner and outer structure of the fender:
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20088.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20090.jpg

Then they went to work with the English Wheel
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20091.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20093.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20098.jpg

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:11 AM

I think that everyone was surprised at how effective this was – we were able to get all of the room that we had hoped for and a bit more.

Just the inner structure in place:
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20099.jpg

And mocked up for the first time:
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20104.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20106.jpg

pictures are a bit deceptive and it's hard to really see all of the change.
At this point the front end is approximately 0.5" wider than the rear (or 0.25" wider per side).

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:15 AM

With the English Wheel we were able to get 2” more width without changing the height or shape of the wheelwell itself.

Measurements Before:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20063.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20068.jpg

Measurements After:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20108.jpg

Flash68

09-15-2012, 09:15 AM

James - that is bad ass. Bout time you posted this stuff up. :thumbsup:

Ron in SoCal

09-15-2012, 09:17 AM

That's a whole new approach to a fender stretch. :thumbsup:

I always wondered about front a rear track width/offset. Any further insight on what is ideal? What size tire are you aiming for?

Glad you started this thread James. Hope I wasn't too much of a PITA..:cheers:

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:19 AM

How much room is that? As a test fit we tried putting the current rear wheel/tire (19x11 with a 325/30-19) on the front just to see. The backspacing wasn’t ideal but we had to start somewhere…

"Lot’s" of room:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20110.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20111.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20114.jpg

Not ideal but as I said – just a test. I wasn’t planning on the 325 tire up front and the backspacing is off by about 0.5” so our target tire should fit fine. HRE is just down the street and around the corner so they were going to stop by when we were ready to get specific.

And just for comparison - with a current 275/30-18 front

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20136.jpg

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:29 AM

Good luck with this James, I've been reading Car and Driver for 32 years now and being a Camaro junkie, I am routin for you guys big time!!! Mike

Thanks Mike - I'm hopeful that we can take a serious shot at a good overall finish next year although I think that competition in Vintage is going to be pretty stiff next year on it's own.

James - that is bad ass. Bout time you posted this stuff up. :thumbsup:

Thanks - it's coming and it was time.

That's a whole new approach to a fender stretch. :thumbsup:

I always wondered about front a rear track width/offset. Any further insight on what is ideal? What size tire are you aiming for?

Glad you started this thread James. Hope I wasn't too much of a PITA..:cheers:

Ron, I was surprised how well it worked - I really have to give the guys credit.

That's a difficult question to find an answer to. The best that I found was that it should be equal or even a hair wider on the front. Anecdotally look around at any modern car and I think that you'll see that they are pretty evenly balanced. My goal - which at this point is a done deal - is a 305/30-19 Michelin Super Sport - it's as wide as a 315/30-18 with a 12.3" sidewall and 12" tread width. These are the same size as I ran on the back for OUSCI last year and may be our choice for rears as well.

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:34 AM

With the fenders well on their way we moved to the lower valence. I wanted something similar to the OLC2 concept to blunt the overall front end and improve the aero. Testing found a couple of dead spots in the old setup that I thought could be improved upon.

Our first shot started with modifications to the stock valence and fender extensions.

We started simple:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20119.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20122.jpg

Test fitting required use of the Track Rat's grill... well it didn't specifically require it but what the heck, it was there...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20127.jpg

Subtle and maybe appropriate for a different setup but not quite what we were looking for...

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:38 AM

So from there things got a bit more complicated…

It’s going to be a big change:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20140.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20141.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20142.jpg

I'm biased but I love it... it's about 0.5" lower than the old one (valence plus spoiler) and should be slippery...

Flash68

09-15-2012, 09:42 AM

God dangit I love that new front! Wow that is killer guys. :willy:

Ron in SoCal

09-15-2012, 09:43 AM

Thanks James. I'm gonna research Vettes, Vipers and Porsches and see what they do on this.

Indy Cars - a whole diff ball game - have more aero, downforce tech and are more narrow in the front.

coolwelder62

09-15-2012, 09:45 AM

Jame's, very cool.Kevin still's talk's about OLC camaro.Ever since he drove it he keep's saying he doesn't have enough power.!!!:thumbsup:

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:49 AM

As lots of people have found before, it’s easy to design a hood on paper… but it’s really hard to find a design that works with the realities of accessory drives, air intakes, and actual aero influences. We spent a fair bit of time looking at how air moved over the hood and went through a lot of design iterations. Ultimately I turned to a design that Tyler had sketched up for 50/50 at one point; he was kind enough to allow me to try a rendition of it…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20146.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20153.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20160.jpg

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:52 AM

Which I think works just about perfectly:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20170.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20171.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20172.jpg

You can really get an idea how much wider the front end is compared to "stock" or the old one with the old splitter in place.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20173.jpg

The air intake has to be relocated but it clears all of the accessories and provides significantly more airflow then the old ones. It's also directly feeding out of the radiator and should fit the bill perfectly. The flat hood's going to take some getting used to but I think it will fit the overall package.

James OLC

09-15-2012, 09:57 AM

God dangit I love that new front! Wow that is killer guys. :willy:

I have to agree... I think that once's it's done it will do everything the we need it too and still stay recognizable as a first gen.

Thanks James. I'm gonna research Vettes, Vipers and Porsches and see what they do on this.

Indy Cars - a whole diff ball game - have more aero, downforce tech and are more narrow in the front.

Clearly open wheels are different but if you look at sedans etc. you'll find that the balance is much closer.

Jame's, very cool.Kevin still's talk's about OLC camaro.Ever since he drove it he keep's saying he doesn't have enough power.!!!:thumbsup:

Yeah... there is still a power deficit (especially by todays standards) - I think we're at least 150 HP shy of where we should be. It's on the list but probably not the budget for this year.

James OLC

09-15-2012, 10:12 AM

And here is where we take a big step…

Pics say more than words – love it or hate it, we’re trying it:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20157.jpg

Aeromotions S2 Active Downforce Rear Wing

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20158.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20159.jpg

It has a split element - each side can work ”independent” of the other

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20169.jpg

The wing works through a combination of a VSS tie-in along with a 3-axis G-meter. It senses speed and vehicle dynamics and adjusts itself to respond... providing a programmable combination of downforce and drag. Where downforce is desirable - i.e low speeds, cornering, and braking - the wing will provide a user programmed amount of downforce. It will even provide split downforce in the turns depending on the direction you are turning. On high speed straightaways where you don't need downforce it adjusts to minimize drag.

I knew going in that this would be a controversial element but as I said... function first. We're shooting for every last bit we can get and this is a serious tool to help with that.

We'll add a short Gurney Flap to the trailing edge of the trunklid once we're happy with everything back there...

James OLC

09-15-2012, 10:23 AM

The trunk got a bit of a tweak on the inside for support:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20155.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20156.jpg

The wing itself is very lightweight – it’s all race layup carbon fiber and on it’s own weighs around 12 pounds. It provides anywhere from 100 to 800 pounds of potential downforce depending on the AoA and speed.

We'll do more if it's needed but now the inner and outer trunk skins are working together and the taillight panel will take the brunt of the load. It will be easy enough to tie it in to the bumper mounts if need be...

James OLC

09-15-2012, 10:25 AM

That's about where we are now... there are probably some more pictures coming soon - the Autorad support is now in place - but we're in a bit of a holding pattern for a week or so waiting on parts.

I'll keep you posted...

67zo6Camaro

09-15-2012, 10:35 AM

Rybar

09-15-2012, 11:15 AM

Very cool stuff James. How are you going to decide which car to drive this one or OLC2 ??

James OLC

09-15-2012, 12:14 PM

The two cars will be really different - the '67 will always be mine and right now the '69 isn't - but the '69 will definitely be more track oriented. I may be wrong but I don't see the '69 as being something that I will just hop in and drive for fun. Once I get to work on the '69 myself maybe my feelings will change.

Regardless, the '67 will definitely be the 2013 car, we'll see where it goes from there...

Gordz32

09-15-2012, 01:45 PM

Very cool James. Me Likey!

waynieZ

09-15-2012, 03:16 PM

It looks great James, I got to see One Lap in July when I went to BOS for lunch. Awesome car!.

09-15-2012, 04:47 PM

James OLC

09-15-2012, 05:25 PM

Updates look great.

With the 1/4" difference betwwen the front and the rear, canyou see a visual difference between the two if you are walking around the car? Or, is it sooooo close, nobody would know the difference unless you told them.

I think that depends on how well you know first gens... I think that most people on this site would be able to tell that something was wrong or different but I don't think that it will be really obvious. The overall shape of the front fenders is now very similar to the shape of the rears so that will probably be noticeable as much as the difference in the width.

Matt@BOS

09-15-2012, 07:21 PM

One thing that I have noticed walking passed the car all the time is that perspective really changes the visual impact of the flares. from the back and rear 3/4 angle, the flares are noticeable only to a real Camaro diehard. As James said, the slope from the top body line out to the wheel opening now looks much closer to the shape of the quarter panels. The panels both angle out from the doors in roughly the same manner which also helps to make it look pretty natural. From the front, however, it is more noticeable simply because there isn't as much distance between the nose and the wheel opening to distract your eye from the increased width. Dang, I hope that makes some sense, but it probably won't unless you've been able to walk around the car.

Matt

Tom.A

09-15-2012, 09:50 PM

I am not seeing the pictures? But is does sound good:thumbsup:

James OLC

09-15-2012, 10:07 PM

Looks like my host is having an IP issue on their end and they may be down overnight while it swaps over - hopefully everything is back in the morning...

camcojb

09-15-2012, 10:09 PM

I am not seeing the pictures? But is does sound good:thumbsup:

Looks like my host is having an IP issue on their end and they may be down overnight while it swaps over - hopefully everything is back in the morning...

I thought it was just me; first tried an hour or so ago, and no pics.

I'll check back later. :thumbsup:

Vince@Meanstreets

09-15-2012, 10:53 PM

ultimate teaser thread.... Canada 1 the rest of the anxious world 0 :D

edit, can see them now....i like where you are going with this.

That is a lot of down force. How about rigs that wrap down to the frame?

Roberts68

09-16-2012, 06:01 AM

I can see the pics this AM and I am on a 3G mobile.

I think this may be the best front flare treatment I have ever seen. As for the valance it looks like you might be planning on a 69 style light by some sharpie marks? I think that would be a good idea. Anything to spot wayward raccoons!:D

The front, like the wing says "I'm a racecar!" And if any 1st gen has a right to wear them OLC does! It reminds me of Lightning McQueens' opening line in Cars I... am Speed. That's a total compliment in the sincerest sense case it doesn't come across that way.

Now, as for the wing.... when I first saw it the lifelong 1st gen fan in me went "awe... really?" but... as I said above OLC has earned that right, then when I read about the tech within the wing and it's capabilities I am thinkin' Hell Yeah!

Thanks for sharing James.
When ready for a small measure of support and taking orders for a new T-shirt design put us down for an XL and a S again!:thumbsup:

James OLC

09-16-2012, 07:53 AM

Thanks Robert! The sharpie circles were actually for brake ducts but I thought that the 3" openings were out of proportion on the front so we've moved them. We will (most likely) end up with some Speaker 4" driving LEDs in the lower valence which, in combination with the 7" LED headlights, should solve our night-time driving issues.

I'm hoping that all of these changes work the way we hope. If we were on the other coast I would have invested a half day at A2 to really get things pinned down but for reasons that I don't understand there is nowhere to get do so on the west coast. There are a couple more tweaks coming on the nose and then we'll have to test the old fashioned way - on the track.

InMotion is continuing to have issues this morning at a level is beyond my understanding - main servers, IPs, DNS transfers - but should be fixed shortly.

camcojb

09-16-2012, 08:07 AM

WSSix

09-16-2012, 08:18 AM

Really cool changes James. I hope these work out well for you guys.

James OLC

09-16-2012, 08:33 AM

Is this you?

http://status.inmotionhosting.com/

Yep... the DNS change to the new IP address hasn't propagated to this point... they are "working on it" but somehow I think that I'm pretty low on the totem pole.

mdprovee

09-16-2012, 11:25 AM

James

Very impressive the direction you are taking this, and the effort put in. Very informative too.

srh3trinity

09-16-2012, 02:46 PM

I like the hood. I have the same vision for my hood one day. That is well executed. The new spoiler looks cool too. The new look of the car is going to be much more aggressive.

Roberts68

09-16-2012, 04:11 PM

James, can you share more about the 7" LED Headlights and other lights you mentioned? Maybe a link?

Headlights are a particular concern of mine that I have not addressed yet. I had not seen an LED yet.

I take it this is it?

pdf fact sheet (http://www.truck-lite.com/wcsstore/tl/resources/images/en_US/pdf/27270C_NP.pdf)

Trucklite Article (http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/GenericView?pageName=/new/PressReleases_en_US/7InchLEDHeadlamp.html&storeId=10001&langId=-1)

James OLC

09-16-2012, 08:48 PM

Robert - nope - I'll post info tomorrow.

Payton King

09-17-2012, 08:14 AM

Really like what you have done! In the process of getting stuff together for a 68 Camaro project and a wing was at the top of my list along with some areo mods. That wing is very tricky.

Looking forward to future updates.

66SuperSport

09-17-2012, 10:51 AM

James

Everything is looking awesome!!! I think that all of these modern body mods on a '60s muscle car look great. Even more so when they serve a purpose. Can't wait to see more.

rallystyle

09-17-2012, 04:15 PM

for the lights i am sure he is talking about :
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=35087&highlight=led

are you going to do any tuff testing on the aero setup? what about a vortex generator for the rear wing? its good to see someone getting serious about the aero on there car. :yes:

James OLC

09-17-2012, 05:08 PM

Thanks Payton and Chris.

The wing is pretty incredible - I hope that it (a) works and (b) works well.

Rallystyle - yep, those are the headlights. I picked up a pair to test on the '68 to see it they were as good as they looked - yeah... they are pretty awesome. They also make a 4.5" driving light that we'll use.

We did some tuff testing on the old front end and learned a few things (mostly the obvious) and that led to some of the design elements that we're using. That, a couple of good aero books/texts, and some detailed pics of a C6.R all helped. There are a few things that aren't obvious in the pics or fully integrated yet. We've changed the shape of the back part of the wheel well (ala C6.R) and will be modifying the front of the wheel well once the wheels and tires are on next week. We were (are) planning on doing some more tuff testing with the new setup before it's done.

The wing was designed to work as is and I'm going to give it that chance. The Gurney flap on the deck lid will probably be a two piece deal that will allow for height changes (or at least testing) and I have a couple of styles of vortex generators here that we'll play with on the track.

millertime179

09-17-2012, 07:01 PM

James the car is looking great! It was an awesome car before but i really like everything your doing. Not only does everything look really cool but it will all function well to make a really cool car an even badder a$$er car. :lol: :thumbsup:

kevin miller

CarlC

09-17-2012, 10:44 PM

James OLC

09-18-2012, 07:29 AM

I'm hoping to post some info soon on the headlights. If the in-garage testing is anything like what they will be on the road, it's a serious improvement over the bad-boy glass 90/100 watt Hella's that were in the car. Working at 1/4 the power requirement, and having more than a 100 hour lifespan, is a big plus as well.

Think you missed a zero or two on the lifespan buddy but yeah... the difference between the LEDs and the halogens that I had in the car are huge. I think having 4 will be overkill but then again, driving through that reservation in the middle of the night on that 2 lane road... no such thing as too much light.

CarlC

09-18-2012, 07:39 AM

Nope. 100 hours is too close to trust, and anything with less power just isn't bright enough.

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=263

Isn't there something in the OLoA rules about auxiliary lighting restrictions?

EDIT:

Just this:

"All forward-facing lights must be controlled by a single dimmer switch."

James OLC

09-18-2012, 07:49 AM

Nope. 100 hours is too close to trust, and anything with less power just isn't bright enough.

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=263

My bad - I misread your post. The LEDs have a (claimed) life span of 50 times the halogen although some also say 10,000 hours. Either will do me fine.

CarlC

09-18-2012, 09:09 PM

10,000 hours at an average of 50 miles/hr = 500,000 miles of night driving. That ought to do a few OLoA's. :thumbsup:

fleetus macmullitz

09-23-2012, 03:05 PM

Matt@BOS

09-23-2012, 03:24 PM

James OLC

09-23-2012, 05:17 PM

Cool that the legendary Dick Harrell put this American Racing wing on the COPO cars he tweaked back in '69. The 'Spoiler equipment package' was $48 back them.

Wings are about the same now, right James? :unibrow:

My thinking is more along the lines of "what would Jim Hall and Hap Sharp do if they could build a '67 today?" I know that I am WAY far away from where they would end up but they are certainly an inspiration. They used some from aero tricks that I'd love to figure out (believe me I've been scratching my head about them) but there are limits...

James OLC

09-23-2012, 05:20 PM

Here is another picture of the OLC's new fenders, which might give a better idea of the shape. Once everything is painted I don't think the changes will stand out that much.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo103/69MSA/IMAG0650_zps81edee0b.jpg

Thanks Matt - I think that the new HRE's should be there in the next day or two and Mr. Rupp has the tires (if he hasn't dropped them off already) so the front fenders should take their final shape this week. There are a couple of "other small" touches to come on the fenders and the lower valence but nothing "huge". :)

fleetus macmullitz

09-23-2012, 05:53 PM

My thinking is more along the lines of "what would Jim Hall and Hap Sharp do if they could build a '67 today?" I know that I am WAY far away from where they would end up but they are certainly an inspiration. They used some from aero tricks that I'd love to figure out (believe me I've been scratching my head about them) but there are limits...

I was referring in a facetious way about the price of wings being about the same now as in '69. :)

But that is cool how you're looking to figure out some of the tricks they used that have lasted for over 40 years now. :thumbsup:

09-25-2012, 06:48 PM

Is this car running stock height body bushings? It rides sooo low, that I assume it has 1/2" lowering bushings on it. I can't wait to see the front fenders with some paint. The guys at BOS did one hell of a job.

James OLC

09-25-2012, 07:06 PM

Yes - stock height body bushings from SpeedTech; I found that the half height bushings create their own issues.

Best of Show is doing a great job - I agree 100%. Front tires arrived over the weekend (they are old rear tires that I ran for OUSCI last year - Michelin Pilot Sport 305/30-19) and then new HRE front wheels are due any day. Once they arrive and get mounted up then BOS can take the final steps on the lower valence.

I doubt the fenders will ever truly see paint...

Roberts68

09-26-2012, 03:41 AM

I doubt the fenders will ever truly see paint...

Is this because of the vinyl graphic "wraps" used now?... or:question:

James OLC

09-26-2012, 07:56 AM

Is this because of the vinyl graphic "wraps" used now?... or :question:

More than likely I'll end up wrapping the car but at this point I'm not sure. I've done partial wraps for 3 years now with good luck and since this is a bit of an experiment I don't know if I want to get caught up in painting a front clip that might only be on the car for a short while.

The original plan was to do some track testing with the front end in primer to verify that everything was working "as expected" while still having the flexibility of making minor changes or improvements before calling it a day. That's still the plan but there are a lot of moving parts to the equation.

Plus, coming up with a new look is harder than it seems...

James OLC

10-14-2012, 08:52 AM

just a quick update... we've needed the new front wheels before we could get too much more done but they arrived last week and we've mounted up the 305 and work is once again progressing...

a comparison of the old and new wheels and tires:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/front%20comparison.jpg

and some of the progress on the trailing side of the front fender - the changes will be (mostly) subtle but should be effective

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20188.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20192.jpg

James OLC

10-14-2012, 08:58 AM

not at ride height yet but you get the idea...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20194.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20197.jpg

We're still playing with exact fitment on the fronts - we've got a small spacer in back right now and with the 305s we've now got 3/4" more room on the back side so we should have better turning radius. Once we get some testing done we can fine tune that bit.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20195.jpg

Now we'll work on tweaking the leading edge and should be getting close to looking like something...

KPC67

10-14-2012, 09:05 AM

looks great James!
Has this taken the life of two fenders to make one?

James OLC

10-14-2012, 09:09 AM

Nope - just one (cheap aftermarket) fender per side. Best of Show essentially cut the skin off them, reshaped it, and welded it back together. We wanted a pretty big rework on the lower front of the backside of the fender and it necessitated another cut to pull it off. It would have been nice to go further with it but I didn't want to sacrifice any of the existing rear structure so I can bolt the old front clip back one when we're done.

James OLC

10-14-2012, 09:46 AM

There is another part of the "Reinventing the OLC" story and that is the "Reinventing the Driver" part of the program. I'll keep it brief since it's more "personal" than "mechanical" but it is part of the project none-the-less. Ask any of the top drivers in our (or any other) community - Mary, Brian, Mark, Kyle, etc. - and they will tell you that seat time is the key to success. Unfortunately it's not always possible to be on the track as often as you'd like - especially here in the Great White North where they are bulldozing the local race track to make room for the dump (don't get me started) ...

I've done some simple driving schools - Racing Adventures here in Calgary and Mario Andretti in Las Vegas - both of which were ok introductions to driving but didn't really do much in the big picture. I've done the Evolution Autocross school which is run by Mike "Junior" Johnson and features instructors like Ann and Andy Hollis, Danny Popp and others and I would highly recommend this course to anyone who wants to get some hands on instruction for autocross driving. I've also done an introductory course with Skip Barber at Laguna which was probably the best road course experience I've had to date but I still have some bad habits which I want to get over before next years OLoA.

I think that everyone has areas where they can improve - and I know that I do - but it's particularly frustrating to know where those issues are but not have "the answer". Seat time is the solution but without the ability to get some in the OLC right now I decided to try something completely different... Rally School.

Over the summer I headed down to Washington State and the DirtFish rally school - particularly their two day "Introduction to Rallycross" course. It's a cool setup they have on old sawmill - some 300 acres of dirt roads, paved lots, and everything in between. They've got a dirt slalom course, a 2 mile dirt/pavement road course, and they've got a great cross section of instructors and top notch equipment. And if you're old enough to remember... the sawmill is also the setting of the old TV series "Twin Peaks".

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/DF1.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/DF2.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/DF3.jpg

It was a good experience and certainly helped... lots of time with Left Foot Braking... lots of time learning a completely new way to turn - lift, turn, brake vs lift, brake, turn... and lots of time learning new ways to get around a corner - from E-brake turns to the Scandinavian Flick. Definitely worthwhile and hopefully a step in the right direction

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/DF4.jpg

It didn't solve all of my problems but I have added some new tools to the box...

preston

10-14-2012, 09:48 AM

KPC67

10-14-2012, 09:49 AM

I am sure it is hard to capture full detail but I think it looks very subtle, especially in the pic from the rear looking down the door. In my opinion these are the best kind of mods, if you get sick of it just pull it off and try something different.
It looks great man, I still haven't had the pleasure of meeting you or your car in person. I need to make that effort.

James OLC

10-14-2012, 09:52 AM

You should really plan on figuring out a way to block that front tire from the front view even if its a removeable spat just for racing. Take a look at a 2005-200 Shelby to see what I mean, they tie a vertical surface into the splitter and it doesn't look too bad. It might look a little draggy but it will much cleaner than the air hitting the rotating tire. Also, by putting a small dam there and creating a high pressure zone right at the front outside of the tire, it will create a slight bit of low pressure behind it which will help pull air through the wheel well reducing underhood pressure and brake cooling. Some people even fence in these little deflectors to create additional downforce in front although I'm pretty sure the drag:downforce ratio is only 1.1 in that case.

Preston - that's on the list of "next" but we needed the front tires on the car before we could put those together. There are two more treatments for the lower valence that need to be done before we get to the spats/dams but they will come. And you are - of course - correct, although they are somewhat contrary in nature (adding surface area) they are 100% effective.

For the record... we took inspiration from four cars in the design and they are, in order of significance of their influence on the design - the Corvette C6.R, the Camaro ZL1, the Ferrari ALMS and the Shelby that you referred to. We will try to implement the pieces of the four in that order so the degree of how much of the C6.R leading edge we can achieve will determine the magnitude of the Shelby dam that is required.

dontlifttoshift

10-24-2012, 06:15 PM

James OLC

10-24-2012, 07:22 PM

James, I read a post of yours somewhere and you had mentioned that you had come across some cars that had slightly wider track width in the front than the rear. Any recollection how much slightly is? Any thoughts about a front track width (overall outside to outside) that was 2" or even 3" wider than the rear?

Thanks!

Slightly would be something like 0.25 to 0.5" wider on the front vs the back.

Some slightly dated examples:

Noble m15 89mm wider at front
Ferrari F430 53mm wider at the front
Lamb Gallardo 30mm wider at the front
Porsche Cayman 42mm wider at the rear

I would think (and I may be wrong as this seems to be a bit of a point on contention among some engineers) that if you get "too" wide then you're going to have a car that probably wants to understeer (more than it may do now)... because as you increase track width you decrease tire loading and, at some point, you will lose front traction.

BUT, in actual practice, I think that it is somewhat dependant on your starting point... as think that it will reduce (or at least correct) some understeer up to a point. (I think) that the OLC understeers in some environments because I am overloading the front tires (too much weight from being to close together). My hope is that by increasing track width then the (marginal) weight reduction on the tires will result in a more stable front geometry.

You can look at it this way... By increasing the front track width you should decrease the front end weight. So if you start at 53/47 then you might end up at 51/49 or ??? If you go to far then, in theory (I think) then you will end up with too much weight on the rear...

I honestly don't know where that happens and I may be completely off here...

J

ironworks

10-24-2012, 09:07 PM

I just got done trying some 3" back spacing wheels, on my dirt car. They say a narrowed track width helps to get the car to turn in. We start with one wheel inset and go to 2 if we want more. It is truely amazing what wheels spacers and changing offset Will do to the handling of a car. My dirt car can go from being a rocket to a car I cannot turn with just one too many 1/2" wheel spacers.

dontlifttoshift

10-25-2012, 05:52 AM

If Ferrari thinks 2" more width in the front is okay it will probably work for what I am doing.

That is something I had not considered. By widening the front track it will transfer corner weight to the rear? In that case its a win/win.....right?

If the starting point was a relatively narrow car and outside widths of 67.5f/66.5r so I don't know that we could ever get too wide in the front......narrow rear = fast slaloms.

Sorry for the slight hijack......Isn't it time for more pictures?

James OLC

10-25-2012, 08:03 AM

Some slightly dated examples:

Noble m15 89mm wider at front
Ferrari F430 53mm wider at the front
Lamb Gallardo 30mm wider at the front
Porsche Cayman 42mm wider at the rear

J

If Ferrari thinks 2" more width in the front is okay it will probably work for what I am doing.

I was typing this quickly last night and it needs a bit more clarification... We have to keep in mind that what I quoted above is the technically correct track width - which is properly measured from the centerline of the wheels and not the outside edge of the wheels.

So... the most consistent info I could find:

Noble m15
Car Width = 72.8" Front Width = 62.8" Rear Width = 59.2" So the difference in track width is 3.6" wider on the front BUT...
Front wheels = 18 x 8 Rear wheels = 19 x 10.5 Making the difference in wheel width 2.5" wider on the back.
So in reality, measuring from the outside to outside, the front is 0.55" wider than the rear.

Ferrari F430
Car Width = 75.7" Front Width = 65.7" Rear Width = 63.6" So the difference in track width is 2.1" wider on the front BUT...
Front wheels = 19 x 7.5 with +31.5 offset Rear wheels = 19 x 10 with +39 offset Making the difference in wheel width 2.5" wider on the back.
So in reality, measuring from the outside to outside, the rear is 0.4" wider than the front.

Lamborghini Gallardo
Car Width = 78.8" Front Track = 63.74" Rear Track = 62.57" So the difference in track width is 1.17" wider on the front BUT...
Front wheels = 19 x 8.5 Rear wheels = 19 x 11 Making the difference in wheel width 2.5" wider on the back.
So in reality, measuring from the outside to outside, the rear is 1.3" wider than the front.

In the case of the OLC...

Front Track (old) = 65.0" Rear Track (old) =65.0" So 0 difference in front to rear when measuring proper track width...
But...
Front Outside (old) = 68.0" Rear Outside (old) = 71.25" So to be where we wanted we needed to move the front out ~3.25" at the outside

James OLC

10-25-2012, 08:10 AM

That is something I had not considered. By widening the front track it will transfer corner weight to the rear? In that case its a win/win.....right?

If the starting point was a relatively narrow car and outside widths of 67.5f/66.5r so I don't know that we could ever get too wide in the front......narrow rear = fast slaloms.

Sorry for the slight hijack......Isn't it time for more pictures?

Technically correct although we'll have to see if it is practically correct as well...

More pics coming soon.

James OLC

11-14-2012, 10:35 AM

Quick pic...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20231.jpg

bdahlg68

11-14-2012, 10:52 AM

In the case of the OLC...

Front Track (old) = 65.0" Rear Track (old) =65.0" So 0 difference in front to rear when measuring proper track width...
But...
Front Outside (old) = 68.0" Rear Outside (old) = 71.25" So to be where we wanted we needed to move the front out ~3.25" at the outside

Did these old outside measurements fit under stock fenders and quarters?

James OLC

11-14-2012, 11:45 AM

Did these old outside measurements fit under stock fenders and quarters?

"yes" with a but... we did do some work to the lips (but we did not change their shapes)

James OLC

11-14-2012, 11:46 AM

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20224.jpg

Flash68

11-14-2012, 10:39 PM

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20224.jpg

Aw yeah... :thumbsup:

David Pozzi

11-15-2012, 10:01 AM

Slightly would be something like 0.25 to 0.5" wider on the front vs the back.

Some slightly dated examples:

Noble m15 89mm wider at front
Ferrari F430 53mm wider at the front
Lamb Gallardo 30mm wider at the front
Porsche Cayman 42mm wider at the rear

I would think (and I may be wrong as this seems to be a bit of a point on contention among some engineers) that if you get "too" wide then you're going to have a car that probably wants to understeer (more than it may do now)... because as you increase track width you decrease tire loading and, at some point, you will lose front traction.

BUT, in actual practice, I think that it is somewhat dependant on your starting point... as think that it will reduce (or at least correct) some understeer up to a point. (I think) that the OLC understeers in some environments because I am overloading the front tires (too much weight from being to close together). My hope is that by increasing track width then the (marginal) weight reduction on the tires will result in a more stable front geometry.

You can look at it this way... By increasing the front track width you should decrease the front end weight. So if you start at 53/47 then you might end up at 51/49 or ??? If you go to far then, in theory (I think) then you will end up with too much weight on the rear...

I honestly don't know where that happens and I may be completely off here...

J

With a wider front track: Less front cornering load (the term weight should not be used here) is transferred from inside tire to outside tire. This reduces load on the outside front tire, increases load on the inside front tire in a corner and so increases front lateral traction available to the front tires. It will reduce under steer and increase over steer. What can then be done is to re-balance the handling by reducing rear anti-roll bar stiffness, or lowering the watts or Panhard bar. End result is more total cornering grip for the whole car.

There is no change in static weight F/R, but there is in dynamic load transfer percentage front to rear.

frojoe

11-16-2012, 10:18 AM

Can I ask what front spring rate you're running, and also how it fairs for street/road course?

James OLC

11-17-2012, 08:00 PM

We've been running between 650 and 700 for the last couple of years but will be revisiting that again when we test next month. We are ok on the track (big and small) but can be better.

frojoe

11-18-2012, 11:15 AM

How do you find that spring rate range for street driving?

James OLC

01-25-2013, 04:24 PM

It’s been a while since I updated our progress over at Best of Show Dick and the crew have made some great progress and we’re getting close to being back together.

The hood has come out perfectly and definitely exceeds my expectations…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Front%203%20qrtr.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Front%20High%20dec.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Hood%20vents.jpg

It will definitely move some air…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Hood%20Openings.jpg

James OLC

01-25-2013, 04:25 PM

The rear wing is almost in its final position now with just a little bit of a tweak left on the upright angle. Pictures don’t really do it justice but I think that when everything comes together it will look perfectly at home.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/R2%20Wing%20Back.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/R2%20Wing%20high.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Rear%20wing%20overhead.jpg

Well… at least as at home as a six foot wide dynamic rear wing can look on anything…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/3%20quarter%20view.jpg

James OLC

01-25-2013, 04:25 PM

We wrapped up the final basis of the lower valence in December

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Front%20Low%20dec.jpg

Lots of room for the front tires

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/305%20Front%20Tire.jpg

With the foundation in place we moved to some air intakes – two for the brakes and two for the airbox

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/front%20vents%20out.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Front%20vents%20orig.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/vents%20and%20start%20of%20shroud.jpg

James OLC

01-25-2013, 04:26 PM

In addition to the air intakes we worked on isolating the air intake…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/coolers%20and%20plumbing.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Front%20jan.jpg

And with that done we ran some new plumbing from Spectre for the custom air box that we’ve built in the base of the lower valence

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/spectre%20intake.jpg

And with that done we’ve moved to some final tweaks on the leading edge of the wheel wells

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/fender%20extension.jpg

Next up will be the inner fenders and some additional ventilation to keep the air moving… clocks ticking but the wait should be worth it…

Flash68

01-25-2013, 06:52 PM

Jesus. Serious bidness here. That spoiler looks right at home.

waynieZ

01-25-2013, 08:24 PM

Its coming together nice. Its amazing the stuff that wing can do. Very nice James.

Vegas69

01-25-2013, 10:00 PM

CarlC

01-26-2013, 12:27 AM

He drives so dam* fast with that trailer the rain never has a chance to touch the car!

James OLC

01-26-2013, 08:26 AM

My first thought when I looked your car over in October was you running One Lap and running into some major rain. I have to wonder if any issues will result from the huge nostrils on your hood. :D Specifically, belt wear and failure. An extra belt or two in reserve isn't a big deal unless it takes you out of an event.

We usually carry "a few" spare belts just in case (one in the car and two in the trailer will be the plan for this year). I'm not too worried about rain while we're moving but if its torrential... well... we also have three rolls of racer tape for just such an emergency.

He drives so dam* fast with that trailer the rain never has a chance to touch the car!

Thanks for reminding me that I need two new wheels/tires for the trailer. Don't want a repeat of that again...

ccracin

01-26-2013, 08:49 AM

You know James, to do this right you need a matching wing for the trailer! Imagine the travel speeds you could reach then! :idea: in all seriousness, good luck and have a great time this year! :thumbsup:

James OLC

01-26-2013, 10:53 AM

Thanks Chad but I think that the trailer is stressed enough by speeds were doing now...

The Vintage America class at the One Lap of America is going to be awesome and a real challenge this year. Besides long time favourite Mike Hickman in his second-gen, the class will include Carl "Hollywood" Casanova in his '68, Jimi "Star Power" Day with his '69 AMXess, Bob Steven's is bringing an '87 Mustang GT and there are rumors of a couple of other serious rides. Mary and I will be in great company this year and finishing in the top 3 (in that order - finishing and top 3) is our goal for the year.

But best of all... we get another shot at Daytona!

I'll start a One Lap thread soon with the full schedule...

flatoutz

01-26-2013, 11:06 AM

James,

What size wheel & tire size are you running on the rear?

flatoutz

01-26-2013, 11:18 AM

Scratch that. I found it in your tread.

James OLC

01-26-2013, 11:34 AM

Rear wheels are 19 x 12. Right now we have 325/30-19s on the back but we're debating running 305/30-19s on all four corners. I ran the 305 on the back at OUSCI a couple of years ago and there wasn't a huge difference vs the 325s. Then again, I have a spare set of 325s sitting from last year.

dunnjun

01-26-2013, 05:41 PM

James OLC

01-26-2013, 07:03 PM

Just curious James, why not the typical pro-touring setup of 335s or 345s on the rear? I understand going with all four the same size, cause that's what I did the 1st year when I drove the the Mustang to all the events. easier carrying one spare. Is it balance front to rear vs traction getting back on the gas coming out of the corner?

Karl... Give me a minute to zip up my flame suit... It's a bit baggy in places but I might need it...

First off - this is not meant as a slight against the hard work, skills, engineering ability or anything about anyone specifically or in general - this is simply my opinion...

Second - I don't mean to rock the boat or suggest that I know better than anyone else or presume that my opinion is any better than anyone else's...

OK... that said... I think that, in general, "our" cars have way more tire than they need, way more brake than they need, and, for reasons that I have never appreciated, we seem to think that our cars have to have the biggest of everything to work. "We" may in fact need those things but, IMHO, it is because "our" cars are, generally speaking, not that good at doing what we are asking them to do. Big tires, big brakes, big wings - what have you - are, more than anything, crutches that make up for generally marginal ability and/or potential. I may not like that truth but I accept it. Do I need a huge wing? Probably not... but if it helps me overcome some of my shortcomings I the skills department then I'll take it. Do I need 6 pots front and back? Probably not... But if it helps get me closer to an ABS optioned car or gives me some extra confidence then I'll take it. Do I need tires this size all around? Do any of our cars need 335s or 345s? Probably not but if they will help make up for some of the limitations that our cars have in general then I'll take it. We tell ourselves that we need them because our cars are too heavy or we have so much power or whatever. If you've been following any of the racing at Daytona over the last couple of days (yesterday in particular) then you've seen a whole buch of cars that weight as much as we do running as much if not less HP than we demand on narrower tires and 4 piston brakes. And I would hazard to guess (or know from experience) that they would beat me without working hard at most venues. They are better cars with, in most cases, better drivers. If I need crutches to keep up then so be it.

Zipping up the suit...

The short and easy answer would have been that last year I ran the Z06 tire combo and the size difference between the 305 and the 325 is pretty minor.

Cheers

frojoe

01-26-2013, 07:30 PM

I support every statement in that post. Kudos.

ccracin

01-26-2013, 07:45 PM

X2 you go James! :thumbsup:

Sieg

01-26-2013, 08:23 PM

Reality based logic like that would earn you my vote for President :thumbsup:

Vegas69

01-26-2013, 09:07 PM

Karl... Give me a minute to zip up my flame suit... It's a bit baggy in places but I might need it...

First off - this is not meant as a slight against the hard work, skills, engineering ability or anything about anyone specifically or in general - this is simply my opinion...

Second - I don't mean to rock the boat or suggest that I know better than anyone else or presume that my opinion is any better than anyone else's...

OK... that said... I think that, in general, "our" cars have way more tire than they need, way more brake than they need, and, for reasons that I have never appreciated, we seem to think that our cars have to have the biggest of everything to work. "We" may in fact need those things but, IMHO, it is because "our" cars are, generally speaking, not that good at doing what we are asking them to do. Big tires, big brakes, big wings - what have you - are, more than anything, crutches that make up for generally marginal ability and/or potential. I may not like that truth but I accept it. Do I need a huge wing? Probably not... but if it helps me overcome some of my shortcomings I the skills department then I'll take it. Do I need 6 pots front and back? Probably not... But if it helps get me closer to an ABS optioned car or gives me some extra confidence then I'll take it. Do I need tires this size all around? Do any of our cars need 335s or 345s? Probably not but if they will help make up for some of the limitations that our cars have in general then I'll take it. We tell ourselves that we need them because our cars are too heavy or we have so much power or whatever. If you've been following any of the racing at Daytona over the last couple of days (yesterday in particular) then you've seen a whole buch of cars that weight as much as we do running as much if not less HP than we demand on narrower tires and 4 piston brakes. And I would hazard to guess (or know from experience) that they would beat me without working hard at most venues. They are better cars with, in most cases, better drivers. If I need crutches to keep up then so be it.

Zipping up the suit...

The short and easy answer would have been that last year I ran the Z06 tire combo and the size difference between the 305 and the 325 is pretty minor.

Cheers

Absolutely, I will say that there are some inherit disadvantages of a 40 year old body and the lack of R&D that real manufacturers enjoy.

It's all a cover up of engineering, lack of driving talent, and chasing every last .1 that really doesn't matter.

ccracin

01-26-2013, 09:21 PM

Lets just add spray nozzles in the wheel wells to spray the tires with VHT! :idea:

Track Junky

01-26-2013, 09:24 PM

I hope that hood design works out well for you. The front of our cars trap alot of air under the hood so I definitely think it will help keep the front planted and reduce drag. Also really like the front airdam/splitter. If I were to do one it would be similar in design.
Not feeling the rear wing though.......I mean I hope it helps but I think it will create alot of drag and I just dont think you need to go that extreme.
Either way good luck out there.

HOLY SMILIES!!

James OLC

01-27-2013, 04:49 AM

Thanks

The real benefit with this design of rear wing is exactly that - at constant speed and in a straight line the wing planes itself out and actually generates less drag than the blade spoiler. Turn, accelerate, or brake and you've got all the the downforce you can ask for. In my case I'm "only" looking for 1-2 seconds per lap - which sounds huge - but that is on a new track from a standing start. We also have some fast/challenging tracks this year - Daytona and VIR both stand out - where every little bit will help. Some of the smaller tracks - Talladega and NOLA should also reward some additional downforce.

At the end of the day I don't know it it's going to work but I would rather try it and find that it does than not and wonder if it might have.

Cheers

XLexusTech

01-27-2013, 05:48 AM

Thank
At the end of the day I don't know it it's going to work but I would rather try it and find that it does than not and wonder if it might have.
Cheers

well said! :thumbsup:

srh3trinity

01-27-2013, 02:07 PM

Cool, two events in Alabama this go around. I saw you and Mary finish up your last lap or two at Barbers a couple of years back and then followed you listening to the great sound of the OneLapCamaro until you jumped on the interstate heading out. I live less than an hour from both of these tracks for this coming year. I will have to make sure I am off work that day.

CarlC

01-27-2013, 08:54 PM

James OLC

01-28-2013, 04:47 AM

I wouldn't consider the supercharger to be a trade down but if your hankering to try my LS7 intake for the week I'm sure I could figure something out.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shop%20265.jpg

getting close - be this time next week... well... we'll see

CarlC

01-28-2013, 07:46 AM

LOL! Lots of duct tape will be needed.

Drag race day should be interesting at Alabama. The SS^2 at RTTC last year is the closest I've done to drag racing in decades.

Karl Buchka

01-28-2013, 11:42 AM

57hemicuda

01-28-2013, 02:00 PM

Amen James, other then the big tires thing I totally agree, if you are required to run 200 tread wear tires the bigger the better. I really think C6 brakes with good pads would do us fine. You put Danny, or Mark in anyone of the better cars, and it would be a winner.

For me, going back to my drag racing days I'm going to make up for my short comings with raw horsepower. Lord knows I need more road course experience, I still look at it as 17 drag races, its been fun though.

James OLC

01-28-2013, 02:25 PM

James, you'll have to excuse my ignorance here, but I haven't been following the build for very long. What sort of chassis stiffening is being employed on the car? It doesn't look like there's much anything going on in the front end and the interior only has a roll bar (maybe I'm wrong? Hard to see in the photos).

Have you guys measured the hub-to-hub stiffness of the chassis?

How are the wing loads transmitted to the chassis?

Karl,
We've got a few things going on with respect to chassis stiffening. From the main hoop back it's pretty conventional although we've tied in to the 3-link at every chassis point. Going forwards are a pair of boxed SFCs welded in to the floor and subframe. From the rockers/subframe are a pair of uprights welded into the body and going forwards is a dash bar (also welded into the body) and going forward from there are a pair of downtubes from the dash bar tied in to the subframe. It's nowhere near a full cage like the '69 but it's enough for what we're doing with this car for now.

For the wing we've reinforced a steel trunk lid in two planes and the load is spread to the rearmost points on the frame rails. We have to option of adding additional support but at this point I don't think that it's necessary and I'm trying to avoid eating up trunk space unless we have to. We'll monitor with video when we're track testing.

Amen James, other then the big tires thing I totally agree, if you are required to run 200 tread wear tires the bigger the better. I really think C6 brakes with good pads would do us fine. You put Danny, or Mark in anyone of the better cars, and it would be a winner.

For me, going back to my drag racing days I'm going to make up for my short comings with raw horsepower. Lord knows I need more road course experience, I still look at it as 17 drag races, its been fun though.

Horsepower... I hear you. I'm at lest a hundred short by todays standards. I hate bringing knives to gun fights but at least it's a relatively sharp knife.

James OLC

02-09-2013, 11:27 AM

Lots of progress at Best of Show over the last week...

The new splitter was water-jetted out...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20New%20splitter%20raw.jpg

along with a Gurney Flap for the rear decklid...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20Rear%20Gurney%20Flap.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20Trunk%20Gurney%20Close.jpg

We'll have new base mounts for the rear wing in a couple of days to get the uprights to the same 11 degrees that the GT-R uses (vs. the higher angle we have now). The curve of the Camaro decklid is a lot more substantial than we anticipated.

James OLC

02-09-2013, 11:35 AM

Best of all the valance, splitter, and fender extensions are just about wrapped up...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20Front%20Drivers.jpg

We've captured all of the elements we were looking for...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20Front%20Passenger.jpg

and (I think) that it came out better than I had expected...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20%20Head%20On.jpg

everything (more or less) flows and I think it looks like it "could have been" if GT3 was a class back in '67

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20%20On%20the%20Ground.jpg

A couple more things to button up and we should be close...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%208%20Head%20on%20the%20Ground.jpg

Rickerbucks

02-09-2013, 01:43 PM

Bryce

02-09-2013, 01:47 PM

looks awesome and funtional.

Does the wing mount to the trunk? if so is the trunk stong enough for the expected downforce?

Who did your water jet cutting? I could use another supplier for work.

KPC67

02-09-2013, 06:20 PM

Looks great:thumbsup:
To be honest it came together better than I originally as well.
even think the wing looks at home too.

James OLC

02-09-2013, 06:36 PM

Looks great James.

I have just registered to this site as I'm starting a 1960 Pontiac PT car

I'm doing OLOA myself this year in my Camaro so I will see you there with my dad. Slightly different generation though.

:-)

Saw you were entered - look forward to meeting you in May!

looks awesome and funtional.

Does the wing mount to the trunk? if so is the trunk stong enough for the expected downforce?

Who did your water jet cutting? I could use another supplier for work.

Trunk lid has been reinforced and we have the option of adding some addional support if it looks like there is an issue in testing. I don't expect it to be a problem but we're prepared either way.

Looks great:thumbsup:
To be honest it came together better than I originally as well.
even think the wing looks at home too.

Thanks - cant wait to figure out colours for this year...

Flash68

02-09-2013, 06:38 PM

God that front end looks so menacing! Nice work on that.

Vegas69

02-09-2013, 06:40 PM

Turned out really well. Was doubting you for a while there...

James OLC

02-09-2013, 06:43 PM

God that front end looks so menacing! Nice work on that.

I agree... Every time I look at it I think "Lord Vader... Your Camaro is here" lol

Turned out really well. Was doubting you for a while there...

It was a risk but I had a pretty good idea where it was going. I'm really pleased that Dick and the guys at Best of Show were able to translate my vision to reality.

02-10-2013, 04:11 PM

Best of show does killer work.

What hoses are you running to the front coolers? Braided something?

James OLC

02-20-2013, 10:53 AM

Some new updates from Best of Show - with luck we should be road testing this week and track testing soon...

New Airbox from Spectre fed from two holes in the lower valance (and two more if need be)
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Spectre%20Airbox.jpg

On the ground and together...
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2019%20FR.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2019%20Drv%20FR.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2019%20Pass%20FR.jpg

Sieg

02-20-2013, 10:58 AM

You should be very happy with that front profile. :thumbsup:

Are you going to mold or have it digitized?

fleetus macmullitz

02-20-2013, 11:24 AM

Skill does tell! :thumbsup:

CrossRamRich

02-20-2013, 03:00 PM

Awesome! Looks great. Stock sub boys! :thumbsup:

Ron in SoCal

02-20-2013, 04:57 PM

That looks sick James. The final product really pops and I'm sure it'll be functional! :thumbsup:

Rod P

02-20-2013, 05:09 PM

I like it!!!:thumbsup:

James OLC

02-20-2013, 06:24 PM

You should be very happy with that front profile. :thumbsup:

Are you going to mold or have it digitized?

That question has come up a couple times over the last day or two... Long story short (a) if there is enought serious interest then (b) we could probably do molds for the hood and valence after One Lap. That will give me a chance to validate the design as well.

And I am really happy with how the car has come together...

Sieg

02-20-2013, 06:39 PM

That question has come up a couple times over the last day or two... Long story short (a) if there is enought serious interest then (b) we could probably do molds for the hood and valence after One Lap. That will give me a chance to validate the design as well.

And I am really happy with how the car has come together...
What are you going to do if you hit a nutria or beaver! I was thinking two-fold, first a replacement nose or two for yourself, then maybe sell the design to Anvil or similar?

James OLC

02-20-2013, 06:53 PM

We're about out of time for making a spare anything... we hit the road in less than eight weeks and have a bunch of stuff to cram in to that two months.

I wouldn't do it without testing/proving regardless. It has to work before I would even consider it (for me or a customer). I'd would do it but I imagine it would be a limited run by via a composite expert.

And we've hit things before and will probably do so again... It's just tin and what can be built can be built again...

CarlC

02-20-2013, 09:20 PM

!!#@*&^&&! Deer!!

Sieg

02-20-2013, 09:29 PM

!!#@*&^&&! Deer!!
Got a few of those in Oregon :D They'd most likely go over the top, those aquatic ground-huggers would destroy that gorgeous craftsmanship below the grille.

The car is looking great, keep the pedal down! :thumbsup:

James OLC

02-20-2013, 09:31 PM

!!#@*&^&&! Deer!!

That's why you've got point after dark... No wait...

GrabberGT

02-21-2013, 06:37 AM

That's why you've got point after dark... No wait...

Man... You guys have GOT to get a camera crew to follow along. Get Jimi to pull some strings or something. This is worthy of TV coverage. A small group of Protouring enthusiasts take on the OLoA....

James OLC

02-21-2013, 10:41 AM

That would be cool. We looked into the option of doing something similar (and using a very familiar Pro-Touring "personality") including live video from the events but no sponsorship this year means no can do. I'd love to pitch something like that one day...

CarlC

02-21-2013, 08:37 PM

That's why you've got point after dark... No wait...

LOL! Low man on the OLoA totem pole.

There's a way to link Trackmaster uploads for people to watch in near real-time. It would be cool for the track events but we'd need an AT&T sponsorship for around-the-country coverage.

David Pozzi

02-22-2013, 11:20 AM

Last year there were two teams doing One Lap that used Livestream to stream video of the event. I saw OLC a few times, but they were qualified up front, so they took down the feed once they were done running & hit the road. They even kept the feed going in the car. The audio was good, the video was slow and jerky.

GregWeld

02-22-2013, 04:37 PM

LOL! Low man on the OLoA totem pole.

There's a way to link Trackmaster uploads for people to watch in near real-time. It would be cool for the track events but we'd need an AT&T sponsorship for around-the-country coverage.

You could run a MBZ S63 with Mil-spec night vision.....

Just sayin'.....

:G-Dub: :lol:

CarlC

02-22-2013, 09:19 PM

You could run a MBZ S63 with Mil-spec night vision.....

Just sayin'.....

:G-Dub: :lol:

Lol! I wonder if it could be slipped by Brock for Vintage American....

James OLC

02-22-2013, 09:34 PM

I'm 99% sure that would end up in "Big Baller" but I think it would be worth a shot...

James OLC

03-01-2013, 09:29 AM

So more progress as the clock continues to count down... Officially there are nine weeks until the start of One Lap...

Dick and company found some chaffing on a couple of the oil lines so we made the decision to replumb a big part of the oil system on the "better safe than sorry" plan. With that done and all of the coolers, tanks, etc. refilled and tested it was time to button things up on the lift and get ready to see the light of day...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2027%20Lift.jpg

Really gives a good perspective on everything. Headlights are going in today - the LED's require a fair bit of reworking to fit well - and LED signal lights will follow shortly thereafter.

Despite not being 100% ready the car saw the light of day again for the first time "in a while" and I think this gives a good perspective on things. It's difficult with the different colors and textures but overall I think everything came together the way we wanted.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2027%20BOS.jpg

The aerocatches are right at home and should work well (I've seen too many hood/windshield matings on the track to run without pins) and even at idle with the fans running the hood vents are moving a bunch of air.

Which leads us to the inevitable first road test..

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2027%20testing%20front.jpg

No that's not Greg driving (I had to look twice to be sure) :) ... we'll play a little bit with ride height (probably bring the back up a tad) but you get a good perspective on the balance between the front and back now. We have a spacer on the front and will fine tune track width and clearance as we go but for now no rubs...

From the back:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2027%20testing%20rear.jpg

Gives a good perspective on the work that was done to the front fender behind the wheelwell. Wing is still split as we haven't run power to the controller (on the agenda for today) but really doesn't look out of place (personally I think the trailer hitch looks stranger than the wing).

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Feb%2027%20testing%20side.jpg

Overall it's coming... a few more bits and peices to button up and a couple more short road trips and hopefully we'll be ready for some track time at Buttonwillow in a couple of weeks.

Cole

03-01-2013, 10:11 AM

Very nice.. Can't wait to hear how it performs. Good job BOS!

Roberts68

03-01-2013, 10:46 AM

WooHooo! Congrats on the progression.
I would have to say, the wing practically disappears into the background compared to the temporary two-tone look. I saw one of these pics on Facebook and by some odd possible subconcious level of support I'm wearing a OLC t-shirt today! Might sound dorky to some but I hope it gives those who have laid hands on or dipped into their pockets to help the OLC a smile to know it.
The front airdam is pretty menacing and I hope it is as effective as planned. The only cosmetique critique I would offer is I have wondered how it would have looked to bring the look of the grill down there, making the outboard circle slightly larger to emulate the difference between parking light and headlight.
Just an observation and curiosity... not trying to criticize the accomplishements or craftsmanship.

James OLC

03-01-2013, 11:23 AM

Thanks

We did the lower opening based on a specific size goal that we had in mind (effective opening related to the radiator and the hood vents). We also had to work with the air box (the front of the rad is fully ducted forwards to the grill/airdam) shape - going wider or drastically changing the shape wouldn't work. Stylistically you might be right but to control the air flow at the volume we wanted a smaller opening was what was needed.

Roberts68

03-01-2013, 11:51 AM

So... what I choose to take away from that is you think I've got style!?:relax:
:D
I knew it was more function over form and that you do your homework in addition to surrounding yourself and OLC with likeminded people to get the end result you seek.

I think once painted it is going to look pretty killer, and if you ever felt it did detract at all cosmetically you could always add a mesh grill or heck, even just paint the whole area in such away as to not define two holes are even there. For instance if the whole oval was a subdued black at a distance the 2 vents would dissapear into 1, and the shapes would resemble the grill above in a way. On that note carrying the idea a little more a small chunk of grill matching the 67 pattern might be tasteful, but is more cosmetic flare than racecar.

James OLC

03-01-2013, 11:54 AM

We're working on some covering for the everything - it's just not there yet. And I agree - once the wrap is done they should be much less noticable...

KPC67

03-01-2013, 05:07 PM

Absolutely beautiful:thumbsup:
great work to everyone who has laid hands on it.

James OLC

03-06-2013, 01:25 PM

Almost there...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Mar%206%20Lights%20off.jpg

Low Beams
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Mar%206%20Low%20Beams.jpg

Hi! Beams
http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Mar%206%20Hi%20Beams.jpg

coolwelder62

03-06-2013, 04:03 PM

Jame's look's pretty intimidating.I like it.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

sixnina

03-06-2013, 04:23 PM

James,
Looks absolutely amazing. Do you think it is going to ad a substantially significant amount of weight over your old set up or do the other benefits outweigh the extra weight.
Thanks Shane

GregWeld

03-06-2013, 04:26 PM

Well thank god someone got on their knee and took a proper perspective pic! (from my perspective!)

KPC67

03-06-2013, 05:31 PM

love it!

fleetus macmullitz

03-06-2013, 05:44 PM

Jame's look's pretty intimidating.I like it.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

X2.

I think the non-RS front end adds to that as well. :cool:

James OLC

03-06-2013, 06:12 PM

James,
Looks absolutely amazing. Do you think it is going to ad a substantially significant amount of weight over your old set up or do the other benefits outweigh the extra weight.
Thanks Shane

Thanks! It shouldn't add any additional weight... At least that was the plan. We swapped out the stock rad support for an aluminum autorad piece and lost the RS motors and assemblies. The inner fenders are 2/3 of what used to be there and although overall beefier, the old front was all steel so this shouldn't be much heavier. The big difference is the hood - originally we had steel, then we tried CF, and we're back to steel. The wing weighs about 1/4 what the spoiler did but we added the gurney. If we're lucky it will be a wash. We took another 50 pounds of unnecessary weight out of the car so that should help. All things being equal, if the weight is close, it's a win overall.

Well thank god someone got on their knee and took a proper perspective pic! (from my perspective!)

Dick says that he did that especially for you... And even as short as he may be, he still had to get down on his knees to do it.

love it!

Me too - I am really happy with everything! This afternoon we got the wing fired up. Tomorrow we'll tie it in to the VSS and we should be about done. 2 weeks today we'll be on the track shaking it down...

James OLC

03-06-2013, 06:14 PM

X2.

I think the non-RS front end adds to that as well. :cool:

Thanks... I've always had non-RS fronts until the OLC and wanted to give it a try. Now that I have the std front on again it brings back everything I love about the '67 fronts (says the guy that has now changed everything about the '67 front)

TheJDMan

03-06-2013, 06:44 PM

I'm thinking I need to contact BOS and have them build me a pair of those front fenders. I can hardly wait to see the OLC in paint.

Vince@Meanstreets

03-06-2013, 09:37 PM

phenomenal

camcojb

03-06-2013, 10:02 PM

I can't wait to see how the changes work out. :thumbsup:

James OLC

04-02-2013, 02:10 PM

We've now done a few test sessions and are pretty happy with the way that things are working. I'll add some additional documentation shortly about the specifics of our test sessions at Willow Springs but for now a quick update:

We got the wing (mostly) working:

p0lfjBz-C_E

We ended up shorting the VSS signal line when we swapped shocks in the pits so the high speed correction wasn't working properly but you get the idea. We have some additional work to do on dialing the angles in for the airflow off the first gen but so far, so good.

Mary took some laps on the big track at Willow Springs:

0zqrdbjmKwc

It was her (our) first time on the track and things went well all things considered. We had some rubbing issues with the front end (which more-or-less fixed itself) but other than that everything was perfect. The rub was actually really interesting... Carl went out and came back with some mild damage do to a rub with his new setup and as I walked back to the OLC I found damage at exactly the same spot. If nothing else demonstrated the similarity of the two cars (at the time).

With a couple of days on the road course done and a couple of autocross weekends in the books the car went to Car West Elite in Freemont, CA to get the front end prepared for the wrap and for the wrap itself. Nice thing about Car West is that their general manager - the talented Mr. Brian Hobaugh - is pretty understanding of what we are doing. I can't thank Brian enough for getting things squared away.

Here she is before the wrap:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/67CarWestElite1.jpg

and with everything done:

Track Junky

04-02-2013, 06:46 PM

That airdam/splitter looks right at home Jim. Great design and will definitely do the job it is intended for........ and I think you just topped the charts in the coolness colomn with that wing. Pretty amazing technology.

Looking forward to hearing more. :thumbsup:

GregWeld

04-02-2013, 07:23 PM

It's okay I guess -- if that's what you're in to.

Love the new front end James! Car is going to be awesome!

Roberts68

04-02-2013, 07:57 PM

I think it looks great, you kept lots of '67 Camaro appearance by using the standard grill.

The soundtrack of the rear wing video really would make a nice lullaby... the forward facing one not so much.

James OLC

04-02-2013, 08:02 PM

Thanks guys.

Greg - I'm going to assume you're home now so I have something on its way to you - should be there by the end of the week.

Yeah... Sorry about that... I forgot to post the "turn the volume way down" warnings. Video 1 is a Hero 3 and video 2 is a Replay. As frustrating as the older GoPros were the new one is actually pretty decent. The Replays (which I bought after I lost all faith in the GoPros) have proven to be unreliable at best :rolleyes:... This years One Lap updates will most likely by via Crayola...

Matt@BOS

04-02-2013, 08:32 PM

and with everything done:

HEY! You left out the most important picture. And, why am I the first to mention this?

Sieg

04-02-2013, 09:42 PM

Video 1 is a Hero 3 and video 2 is a Replay. As frustrating as the older GoPros were the new one is actually pretty decent. The Replays (which I bought after I lost all faith in the GoPros) have proven to be unreliable at best :rolleyes:... This years One Lap updates will most likely by via Crayola...
I have five GoPro's that 3 of 5 have audio interference issues which are manufacturing defects that they dodge via their warranty policy. My Hero3 has been OK so far, but a Google search reveals they are having issue too.

I was hoping the Replay XD would be the solution.........

Have you tried the Contour?

The car is looking great, can't wait to see it with the wrap. :thumbsup:

Tom.A

04-02-2013, 10:23 PM

Looks great James. OLC just gets better with age:thumbsup:

CarlC

04-02-2013, 11:12 PM

When trying to fit a 10lb tire in a 10lb hole, sometimes somethin's gotta give.

It's looking good James. You're well sorted considering the condensed timeframe. I still wish there was another month or two, but 29 days and it's time to go.

Flash68

04-02-2013, 11:32 PM

That front end is looking just right. And that wing in action is so high-tech.

57hemicuda

04-03-2013, 04:59 AM

Looking at some of the high tech/high dollar stuff that is available, and is making its way on to some of the P/T cars really has me feeling like I am rubbing sticks together on some of the crap I'm building.

James that car is turning out to be a true world class supercar, that looks truely fantastic. I keep saying what else could you possibly do to a first gen Camaro to make it different, and people like yourself keep stepping it up to the next level. I am however glad, I'm not the guy writing the checks on this last revision.LOL Great job, Ron

James OLC

04-03-2013, 08:20 AM

Thanks Ron - I think. :)

The nice things about the changes this year is that I didn't actually change anything on the car. The sheetmetal is all modified repop stuff and the complete "original" OLC clip is put away safe and sound.

If I keep telling myself that maybe I'll be able to convince myself that I am not modifying the OneLapCamaro... I'm using it as a test bed for the next car...

Roberts68

04-03-2013, 08:27 AM

HEY! You left out the most important picture.

Yeah! :headscratch: What he said.

:popcorn2:

57hemicuda

04-03-2013, 10:46 AM

Thanks Ron - I think. :)

I don't know why, but my frugle nature always makes me worry when I start counting shop hours, and parts installed on the sexy stuff on our websites. I really don't know why(mental disorder?), I'm not writing the checks, and don't really know what it is costing. I just know I am really jealous of the work that is done and the parts that are installed. That car is so different then your original, that I don't know why you'd want to do another car at this point, of course thats the pot calling the kettle black.

James OLC

04-10-2013, 09:06 AM

ccracin

04-10-2013, 09:14 AM

Well I was going to wait on these but since they are already out there... I give to you the 2013 OLC.R

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLCR.jpg

Huge thanks to everyone who made this possible - Dick and the crew at Best of Show Coachworks for turning my vision into reality from 3000 miles away, Brian Hobaugh and Car West Elite and Elite Auto Films in Fremont for cleaning everything up and doing the wrap and, as always, the Pozzi's for handling the PITA things.

James,

I saw the pics on FB. I have to say I was skeptical as you were bringing this vision together. I have to tell you, you killed it. This thing is bad! :trophy-1302:

Best of luck this year! I think you have a chance at the overall! I must have missed it, who is co=pilot this year?

:popcorn2:

James OLC

04-10-2013, 09:24 AM

James,

I saw the pics on FB. I have to say I was skeptical as you were bringing this vision together. I have to tell you, you killed it. This thing is bad! :trophy-1302:

Best of luck this year! I think you have a chance at the overall! I must have missed it, who is co=pilot this year?

:popcorn2:

Thanks Chad - it was a risk and there are things that can still be improved but I think it came together really well. I doubt I'll ever be 100% satisfied but this is a great start.

And thank you... but to be honest we have ZERO chance of finishing near the top in the overall. We might be better than ever but we're still bringing a knife to a gun fight. My goal is top 20 overall but this year Vintage American is going to be increadibly tough on it's own so a top 3 in our class will be an accomplishment.

And sharing the wheel with me for the better part of 3,500 miles... and 100 plus hours... will be the always incredible Mrs. Mary Pozzi.

Roberts68

04-10-2013, 09:50 AM

Ron in SoCal

04-10-2013, 10:13 AM

I recognize those colors...:cool:

James OLC

04-10-2013, 10:44 AM

:trophy-1302:
More pictures! More Pictures!

Knife to a gunfight? Maybe so... but wouldn't a U.S. Marine Sabre, Knights Templar broadsword, Medieval battle axe, or a scimitar also all fall into the knife category by loose definition of edged weapon?

What you are bringing is spectacular and in the right hands... look out!

Hopefully more pictures in the next couple of days... we have a bunch of work and not a lot of time before it ships out.

And yeah... it may be a good knife... it may be a very good knife... but when the defending champion is playing around with a 1300 rwhp GTR between weekend stints in the Brumos Porsche... it's still just a knife. And you can't overlook Carl in the '68 or Jimi in the Centerforce AMX - they will both be tough. Carl is a heck of a driver and his car is really well sorted out and Jimi has put a lot more miles then most people know on his car.

When you enter a competition with no rules... you can never bring enough.

That said the number one thing to remember about One Lap is that you have to finish to win...

GrabberGT

04-10-2013, 11:00 AM

57hemicuda

04-10-2013, 01:59 PM

That thing turned out wicked as can be. Good luck, hope you and Jimi make out well on that one lap.

enzo

04-10-2013, 02:58 PM

wow!
that thing looks like it's ready to eat something. Awesome!

Rickerbucks

04-10-2013, 07:22 PM

James OLC

04-10-2013, 08:32 PM

A couple more pics to tide everyone over until we can get some better ones... unfortunately, the reality that the car has to leave next week dictates that some mechanical prep has to take precedent for a day or two...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLCR%201a.jpg

and one of my personal favorites

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLCR%201b.jpg

James OLC

04-10-2013, 08:42 PM

James... Car looks super not..... I'm trying to get some final issues sorted on my ride. It seems that no matter HOW far in advance you plan.... somehow it is always down to the deadline.... (and I'm not happy about it).

me.... just looking forward to participating. Winning is for other folks.

:-)

Believe me - I know what you are going through. We are in decent shape this year but still have a long list to address in the next three or four days. Being on the West Coast (Canada or USA) is a huge disadvantage - you lose at least a week, if not two, for transportation and like you said, it doesn't seem to matter how far in advance you plan it always comes down to deadlines.

Fun story about the first One Lap of America that we did. My flight (from Calgary) was cancelled due to a storm and delayed a day. I pulled up to the host hotel at around midnight the night before tech and the start (that year we had tech in the morning and started in the afternoon). Dave and I pulled in to the parking lot of the hotel and it was like a huge outdoor garage with work going on everywhere. The defending champion GTR had the hood open and the guys were soldering together a new injector harness IN THE PARKING LOT! They had an extension cord running back in to the room and were cutting off and replacing the ends for new injectors that had just arrived. Another guy was replacing brake pads and a third was struggling to get his car running - they had trailered the car, unfinished, and were working to get it going the day before the race started.

It's like nothing you can imagine... see you there... :)

James OLC

04-10-2013, 08:51 PM

and a bit of history saved from the past...

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLCR%20Stick.jpg

Sieg

04-10-2013, 09:22 PM

Wells done James, the car looks spectacular!!

CarlC

04-10-2013, 10:08 PM

That said the number one thing to remember about One Lap is that you have to finish to win...

Werd. But, that did not stop Mary and I from scheming about who is going against who on-track :drive:

When someone sees OLC coming in the rearview mirror, it may seem a bit like this :Tomcat:

Roberts68

04-11-2013, 06:08 AM

When someone sees OLC coming in the rearview mirror, it may seem a bit like this :Tomcat:

Good Point Carl... in fact if it wasn't for the weight penalty of the ammo boxes and armaments I think that OLC could pull off the look accessorized with a .50 cal and some rockets. Mounted low to maintain good center of gravity of course... maybe drop down to .30 cal for weight savings?

:idea:

Bryce

04-11-2013, 06:22 AM

I must say that I've never really liked the over-sized front air-dam on this. I much preferred the styling of the previous chin splitter setup. But having said that... HOLY CRAP! That looks killer!

Go Get 'em! :guns:

The tires especially front tires acount for some 20% of the drag. The front spoiler/splitter/valance is 100% functional. A narrow chin spoiler not so much.

Looks freaking awesome! I love it when funtion meets form and they become friends.

James OLC

04-20-2013, 01:24 PM

I had skipped a couple of steps in the process lately so now that I have a minute (or while I still have a minute, depending on how you look at it) I figured I’d get this thread caught up.

Last month we had an opportunity to secure some time at Willow Springs (one day on the Streets course and one day on the Big course) for some testing. I invited Bret and the crew from RideTech to come out (since they were in town for the Hot Rod deal in LA) and we were fortunate that in addition to Brit they were able to convince the guys from Fox to come out with their tech van.

With the changes that we had made in the aero, track width, and tires - and with a couple of days of not 100% pleasant autocross testing – we increased the front spring rate 100 lbs. and the rear 75 lbs. and loosened the rear sway bar about 50% to get the car to rotate better on corner entry. These changes made the car noticeably stiffer on the road but surprisingly soft on the road course. Over the course of testing we gradually stiffened up the existing shocks until they were maxed out on all settings. That’s when the crew at Fox, directed by Britt’s expert evaluation, stepped in.

First bit of fun was pulling the front shocks out:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Willow%20Test%20-%20swap%201.jpg

which is not the fastest or easiest thing to do outside…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Willow%20Test%20-%20swap%202.jpg

but we got it done nonetheless and then the techs at Fox did their thing

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Willow%20Test%20-%20Fox.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Willow%20Test%20-%20Fox%202.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Willow%20Test%20-%20Fox%201.jpg

putting a custom tune in the front and rear shocks that was ideally suited for the car.

The results were nothing short of amazing! I have to admit, never having had an opportunity to work in depth on shock tuning with true experts this was an eye opener for me with a lot of the adjustments being somewhat counterintuitive… adjust the back to fix front, change the rebound to smooth everything out, etc.

We are definitely fortunate in our community to have RideTech not only providing such awesome products, but also being dedicated to improving them – not through computer simulations or guesswork but by doing real world testing a development. It was also amazing to listen to Britt evaluate the cars from the sidelines, noticing even minute oscillations… “the car is bouncing three times on hard braking… we can tune that out by…” or “the front end is coming too far up (too far being about a half an inch) under hard acceleration… we need to…”

This was one of those days that made me exceptionally pleased to say that I am a very satisfied RideTech customer and am honored to represent them.

Shock testing done on the Streets of Willow led to some fine-tuning on the Big Willow track (see the videos a couple of pages back)…

James OLC

04-20-2013, 01:25 PM

With testing done and evaluating our options for wrap designs we shipped the car off to Car West Elite in Fremont, CA for a final cleanup of the front bodywork and installation of the wrap at their sister shop Elite Auto Films.

A couple of “in progress” shots

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Elite%207.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Elite%208.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Elite%209.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC%20L%20FRT.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/REAR.jpg

And a couple of ‘finished product” pics back at David and Mary’s house:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC%20-%20DM%20side.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC-%20DM%20close.jpg

James OLC

04-20-2013, 01:27 PM

With the car safely back in the Pozzi’s garage it was time to get down to the business of prepping the car and taking care of some last minute tweaks and fixes…

The axle bearings on the Baer Full Floater need a bit of a tweak

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Axle%20Brearings.jpg

The car was scaled, ride height was adjusted, and aligned was checked and set

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Scaling.jpg

and new brake pads were installed on the front along with fresh tires on all four corners.

With the new front end we have provisions for some basic air intakes for the new Spectre air box and the big Baer brakes. I didn’t want what I would call perfect ducts for the front brakes – we have way too many highway miles and honestly too few consecutive track laps to require a semi-sealed duct. The decision was made to run 3” ducting to just behind the brakes and direct the air towards the rotors. It should do the job without overcooling the rotors on long road runs or in wet weather…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/brake%20duct%20-%20drivers.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/brake%20duct%20-%20passenger.jpg

James OLC

04-20-2013, 01:27 PM

Along with “the basics” there were a couple of other things that we needed to address before heading out…

We didn’t have a chance to finish the inner fenders out of metal so we decided to quickly fabricate some panels out of plastic. A trip to Home Depot, a black spray bomb, and some Stock Car rivets and we’ve got sealed inners (in anticipation of a wet week coming up):

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/inner%20-%20white%20prelim.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Inner%20black.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Inner%20fender%20rivited.jpg

admittedly probably not going to win any points next time we hit a Goodguys show but they should work.

David fabbed up a new shutoff switch on the battery

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Shutoff%20switch.jpg

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

And we added some mesh to protect the oil cooler and radiator.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/grill%20-%20finished.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/grill%20-%20closeup.jpg

Staples to the rescue for this one… going from this:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/grill%20-%20starting.jpg

to this:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Front%20in%20the%20sun%20DP.jpg

Mary took the car for a quick test drive (deciding that cycling shoes weren’t ideal in the process) and discovered that we had no tail lights… which led to an 11th hour thrash to track down the problem. We’ve had tail light issues EVERY year we’ve run One Lap and have spent too many hours on the side of the road trying to figure out what was wrong but never obvious (’10 – internal trailer plug short, ’11 – raccoon induced short in front signal light, ’12 – bad LED board on the passenger side). This time I think we caught it before heading out… once again not really obvious – the wrap guys had removed the rear bumper and pinched the license place light wire behind it, creating a dead short.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/shorted%20wire.jpg

I hope that we nipped this one before OLOA this time.

James OLC

04-20-2013, 01:29 PM

With a week of testing, a couple of weeks of wrapping, and a ten days of dedicated prep work the OneLapCamaro is buttoned up and ready to go!

David took a moment to snap some pics on the final test drive:

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC%20-%20DP%20out%201.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC%20-%20DP%20out%202.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC%20-%20DP%20out%203.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/OLC%20-%20DP%20out%204.jpg

Before trying to load it up in anticipation of car leaving on Friday. Some things fit better than others…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/Loading%20spare%20-%20not.jpg

James OLC

04-20-2013, 01:29 PM

L.A. Prep (http://www.lapreptransport.com) picked up the car Friday afternoon in one of their deliberately non-descript but state-of-the-art transporters. They’ll bring the car to Long Beach where we will await the arrival of Mr. Casanova and the Honor Flight Camaro before heading off to FM3’s shop just a stones throw (ok a long stones throw) from South Bend.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/LA%20Prep%20Loading%201.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/LA%20Prep%20Loading%202.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/LA%20Prep%20Loading%203.jpg

Next stop is the 2013 Tire Rack One Lap of America!

ccracin

04-20-2013, 01:43 PM

That looks awesome James. I wish you guys the best of luck. Have fun and most importantly, be safe.

Ron in SoCal

04-20-2013, 02:39 PM

That looks awesome James. I wish you guys the best of luck. Have fun and most importantly, be safe.

Yep fun and safe James! Thanks for posting the ups and downs. :cheers:

cashed

04-20-2013, 04:26 PM

Congrats! What amazing execution, on a flawless design.

James OLC

04-20-2013, 05:05 PM

That looks awesome James. I wish you guys the best of luck. Have fun and most importantly, be safe.

Thanks - we're still working on "our end of the deal" - learning the tracks and training for them, but I think we have a good car heading in to the event, maybe the best we've had. That said, the level of competition this year will be second to none, especially in Vintage American. As always, the goal is to finish and have fun - if we can do that then I'll be happy. Icing on the cake would be to do better than we did last year overall regardless of where we end up in the class.

Yep fun and safe James! Thanks for posting the ups and downs. :cheers:

Thanks Ron. I think I say it at least once a year - everyone has problems, hiccups, or disappointments along the way. Some people don't like to share them but that's part of the game and if we don't talk about the difficulties - or more accurately the solutions - then nobody learns anything. That said, we've had a lot more good than bad at this point and we're fortunate that we are where we are in the program.

Congrats! What amazing execution, on a flawless design.

Thanks - We'll take a compliment any day of the week. Credit has to go to a lot of people though - from Tyler and McBride who originally conceptualized the hood to Dick and the guys at Best of Show who did their best to make my concepts a reality and to Brian who knew what we needed to do to get the car wrapped and finished. Without those guys (and their teams) none of this would have happened. And then there is David and Mary and Bret and the guys at RideTech. Lots of moving pieces and as always a team effort - you will rarely see me use the word "I" when talking about the OLC and there is a reason.

That being said - there is still room for improvement. There are a couple of elements that would have liked to incorporate and there are some things that I will do differently "next time". It's given me some thoughts to consider for the '69 and, at some point, I will probably build a more competition oriented '67 (or '68) based on the basic design of this front end. Small steps in getting better but we're trying.

fleetus macmullitz

04-20-2013, 05:24 PM

James.

Thanks for taking the time to share all this info. Great education for us here.

Maybe I missed something, but I thought the '69 was going to be 'the car' replacing this '67.

But you mentioned possibly also doing another '67-'68. Would it be used for a different purpose than the '69?

James OLC

04-20-2013, 06:19 PM

The '69 will, eventually, give me the ability to do a quite a few things that we just can't do right now. Will I ever consider it to be a replacement for the OLC? Right now I'd have to say no. It's complicated.

The '69 aside... I've invested a fair bit pf time and effort (etc.) in the front sheet metal that's on the car now and to be realistic, the only way that I am going to ever recoup that will be as part of a car - not as a a front clip. It would be pretty easy to build a car around the front end that would be really cool.

The other option that Mary and I talked about last month would be to sell the OLC and focus on moving on. I don't see that as being a realistic option but its a definite possibility.

For now though we have to get through the One Lap and do our best to maintain our momentum. We've also been invited to take part in a couple of other really cool events this year that I have to work on the logistics for.

coolwelder62

04-20-2013, 06:55 PM

Jame's congrat's on all your improvement's.And Good Luck too you and the other in the OLC.Be Safe,have Fun!!!!

waynieZ

04-20-2013, 08:05 PM

James the car looks great and it sounds like the adjustments to the shocks should be an advantage so give um hell! Good luck and be safe.

89 RS

04-25-2013, 08:51 PM

Camaro looks awesome, almost like a whole new car with the new mods. Good luck James!

4WardInv

05-12-2013, 02:55 PM

Congrats to James and Mary on the class win at OLOA!

James, how did the hood work out as far as cooling?

James OLC

05-12-2013, 03:22 PM

The hood was great - temps never got over 195 in competition and cruising down the highway we sat at between 174 and 185. No major issues in the rain either. On average I would say a 10 degree overall reduction in temps.

fleetus macmullitz

06-17-2013, 06:46 AM

James OLC

06-17-2013, 10:10 AM

James,

Congrats again on your teams win. :thumbsup:

Not sure if this has been covered already, but now that OLoA is over, what difference do you feel the new front end and the new wing out back made?

Any other changes that you feel merit mentioning?

Thanks - it was a challenging year with Jimi and Carl really upping the level of competition in Vintage. We were fortunate to take the win this year as all of us won, and lost, some competitions by rediculasly small margins.

I'll go in to more detail later but long story short - the front end did what I hoped it would but came with a bit of a weight penalty (compared to what I was hoping). Cooling was phenomenal and suggests we can block more of the grill but overall the front is/was too high and we'll benefit from dropping it down a bit. Jury is still out on the wing - we never had a chance to truly dial it in and tune it before heading out so I think there is room for improvement. All that being said the car the best it's ever been, we easy to drive and performed (mechanically) flawlessly (for the most part) over the week.

The engine is (was) tired when we finished and the transmission wasn't 100% but we're addressing both of those now...

barrrf

06-20-2013, 07:27 AM

Love this car. Very forward thinking when it comes to muscle cars and aero. Ive said it before, but the wing is great (dibs youre ever going to remove and sell).

Well done!

Leadfoot1

06-20-2013, 07:44 PM

James OLC

06-21-2013, 05:32 PM

And all that with a stock (production) sub frame!!!

That's blowing me away and proving that you can do some serious driving with what you get with the purchase of a typical project car!!! Some people don't even drive their car 25% of what you do with yours and Ohhhhh sooo ''NEED'' a DSE or other Big ticket Sub frame to go to the supermarket...lol!!! You sure show its definitively not needed and I love it!!

Love the new look too!! :thumbsup:

Lead.

Thanks Lead but I have to respectfully disagree with you to a point. When I built the OLC sub options were limited and my ATS modified (now SpeedTech) sun frame was abut the best option available. It certainly gets the job done - to a point - and has served us well in a variety of different applications. But it's not ideal and if I were to build the car today, and if mu budget allowed it, I would probably go a different route.

In many ways what we have now is about the equivalent of RideTech's True Turn setup although using different bits and pieces - many of which were home made. It works but we are at, or near, it's limits. That said, one had to look no further than Carl Casanova to see that for the majority of people a stock subframe is more than up the the task.

Today there are a ton of great choices for subframes which are available at not much more cost than a fully built (i.e. functioning) stock sub. A couple may actually be cheaper. It gets difficult in so much as subframe choices/options may be dictated by you engine combination... My use of the an LS7 actually limits the number of subs I can use significantly as there are only so many oil pans available.

Aftermarket subs are (can be) slightly lighter and typically have greater torsional rigidity than the stock one and allow for larger tires, better clearance, and easier utilization than the stock ones - provided the budget allows it and the end use, to a certain point, justifies one. I would not hesitate to use a SpeedTech sub (and in fact I have one in the '69) or an AME piece. Likewise Scott Mock makes a great looking subframe and DSE's has obviously proven itself.

The '67 I am building for wife will certainly have a stock subframe in it - either a RideTech based piece or a SpeedTech based piece.

Leadfoot1

06-21-2013, 07:16 PM

Hey James,

I hear ya, and have to respectfully......agree with you lol!!! You said it very well, for your application and what you do, i am in total :thumbsup: with what you wrote.

The point i was trying to make (and i think you got it) is that a lot of people are trying to build their cars and put a lot of focus on the (false) absolute necessity of having to get an aftermarket sub frame to have a good car, that it almost makes it a discouraging venture...yet, they dont really need one to enjoy their project!! (Especially when you consider the percentage of whom of these people are going to race their car to a level where it would warrant going with an aftermarket one) What i was trying to highlight was that you can do A LOT to a stock sub and have a very fun and performing car all while still not sinking 10g's just on one part of the car.

Carl's car is effectively a very nice example (doesnt he run 275 up front on top of things too??)

i like the Speedtech too. Good bang for the buck, the best looking to me is the AME unit, the DSE while proven, is too much like the stock one for me look wise, the performance is there, but i like the Rugged and fabbed look of the AME, it looks all business.

Ah....it always comes down to the same story anyway.....:G-Dub: :G-Dub: :G-Dub:

:topic:

Lead.

CarlC

06-21-2013, 10:56 PM

Yup, and 285's are on the menu.

James OLC

07-16-2013, 08:30 AM

And so it continues…

After a pretty good One Lap of America this year Mary and I were faced with the reality that the OLC was getting a bit old in places and was starting to show some wear and tear from five years of gentle use. The engine and transmission were starting to show their age and if we were going to run the OLOA for a fifth time with the car - and if we hoped to once again improve our overall finish - some changes were once again in order. As we discussed our strategy for next year we accepted the fact that the engine needed to be rebuilt or replaced, we knew that the transmission needed a freshening, and we felt that the car itself needed some tweaks to get in to fighting shape for what will most likely be its last One Lap competition. So – after some furious phone calls and emails we formulated a plan and, at this point, we’re well on our way to working our way through it.

Here it is…

The Katech “Street Attack” LS7 has been sold and a new Katech LS7 will be taking its place. The new bullet makes a little bit more power and a little bit more torque and will be getting an updated intake, oiling system, and maybe a trick here or there.

The MEFI4B ECM is gone and will be replaced by a much more powerful and flexible Holley Dominator EFI. The Holley system has loads of options that the MEFI just couldn’t match and will a welcome addition to the OLC’s critical systems. Davis Technologies will be providing Traction Control technology that should help us in just about every event that we encounter in the OLOA.

The Tremec T-56 Magnum is off for a rebuild. We found some issues with the slave cylinder which lead us to examine the somewhat wobbly input shaft. This transmission is also a very early Magnum and will be updated to the CF synchros as part of the rebuild.

Centerforce will be rebuilding the DYAD Dual Disk Clutch as part of some routine freshening. This has been an awesome piece for us – outlasting and outgripping anything that we have tried before – and has proven to be perfect for our power levels and use.

The car is going on a diet… the OLC is – and always has been – a heavy car and if we’re going to get faster we need to shed some weight. Our goal is 250 pounds… which is a lot to hope for but I think that we can get close. Some will be easy, some will be painful, and some will be a challenge but at the end of the day I think that it will be worth it.

And the kicker…

The stock subframe is coming out and an Art Morrison Enterprises custom tweaked front subframe will be taking its place. The AME sub will be made even better thanks to some bits and pieces from LG Motorsports including billet drop spindles, monoball bearings, race hubs, and brake ducts.

This is a huge leap for us and will require a pretty daunting amount of work to get right. With that said, grab some popcorn and follow along as we work though what should be the second to last reinvention of the One Lap Camaro…

Flash68

07-16-2013, 11:53 AM

You are a pioneer.. and then some.

This is a huge leap for us and will require a pretty daunting amount of work to get right. With that said, grab some popcorn and follow along as we work though what should be the second to last reinvention of the One Lap Camaro…

Are you willing to share what the final frontier is for this? :stirthepot:

fleetus macmullitz

07-16-2013, 12:02 PM

James,

Looking forward to watching it unfold. :cool:

Obviously a lot of subframe choices. What made you decide on the AME piece?

James OLC

07-16-2013, 12:06 PM

You are a pioneer.. and then some.

About 15 years ago I was talking to someone at NOS about (something) and they said the same thing... then they reminded me what happened to the pioneers... but thanks :)

Are you willing to share what the final frontier is for this? :stirthepot:

Realistically - clean up and retirement. There is one more think that I can think of after this that would help but I just don't see it happening so once this is done the next step would be taking it back to it's original form, cleaning it up and... who knows.

James OLC

07-16-2013, 12:17 PM

James,

Looking forward to watching it unfold. :cool:

Obviously a lot of subframe choices. What made you decide on the AME piece?

You're right - lots of great choices and I weighed lots of options. The decision to try the AME subframe came from a couple of places:

1. The LS7 has a lot of packaging issues - both in its stock form and as you look at enhancements on the oil side. IF I were to do it again, and knowing what I know now, I would not use an LS7 for those reasons alone - there are better ways to go. BUT - thats what I have and that's what I have to work around and that itself culls the options.

2. Flexibility - AME was willing to make changes to their subframe for us and gave us "free reign" to modify it. The changes we made were "minor" and only time will tell if they will pan out but AME was cool with helping us out. This applies to both the subframe and the components we wanted to use with it.

3. Compatibility - which also probably includes "comfort". The AME subframe will work with a lot of the parts and manufacturers that we have been using with great satisfaction over the last few years so (a) I don't have to change from what I like, (b) I don't have to completely reinvent the wheel and (c) I can continue to support people and companies that have supported me.

All of that aside, the AME piece is really nice and Craig Morrison reached out to me while I was in his neck of the woods and we got to talking. I really appreciate great customer service and enjoy working with people who are interested in what we are doing. Timing and availability also played a part, as did some common projects that are going on more-or-less in parallel.

In fairness - there are four subframes that I seriously considered and wouldn't hesitate to recommend - SpeedTech, Scott Mock, DSE, and AME - all with their own pros and cons.

fleetus macmullitz

07-16-2013, 12:33 PM

James,

Thanks for taking the time to provide some very useful info.

Good stuff. :thumbsup:

sik68

07-16-2013, 12:51 PM

:king:

07-16-2013, 02:07 PM

James,

Very cool update.

What was the final backspacing on the front wheels? Also, do you have any pics of under the hood with the new intake? I looked through the thread, but didn't see any...

James OLC

07-16-2013, 06:12 PM

So we kicked things off about a month ago…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/OLC%20ready%20to%20start.jpg

I came across an outstanding deal at Katech on a Street Attack LS7 that had a pretty short fuse so the first order of business was to sell the old engine. It was in great shape but starting to hint at its age under hard use so I posted it up on the forums at what I felt was a pretty fair price for what it was. It sold in about three days to a board member who was looking for something complete. It was sold complete including ECM and dry sump system so we were going to be starting fresh on a number of bases.

First things first – time to get the old one out…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/old%20engine%20ready%201.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/old%20engine%20ready%202.jpg

The first hiccup came before we even had the old engine out… the shipping company had decided not to deliver the new engine on Friday as promised but were more than comfortable trying again on Monday for a small fee… not great when we’re under a bit of a time crunch. Mary was kind enough to hop in the truck and drive to the terminal for a “customer pickup”…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/uncrating%20new%20engine.jpg

and came back with a really big box…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/New%20engine%20vc.jpg

I’ve always liked redheads.

James OLC

07-16-2013, 06:15 PM

So with the new engine “in hand” it was all systems go for pulling the old engine out…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/old%20out%20with%20new.jpg

which left a pretty big hole

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/engine%20out.jpg

James OLC

07-16-2013, 06:16 PM

Part two of the weekend was the start of the diet. We pulled the fiberglass headliner, the air conditioning unit, the quarter window regulators, some miscellaneous panels and the passenger seat. Every piece that came out was weighed and documented to track our progress. By the end of the first day we were down about 135 pounds. With the easy stuff done we moved on to the hard stuff…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/roof%20dynamat.jpg

All of the dynamat that we can reach is coming out… started with the roof… headed to the trunk… and then the rest of the cockpit.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/trunk%20dynamat.jpg

This is about 25 pounds of dynamat… probably half of what we have coming out (give or take):

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/pile%20o%20dynomat.jpg

Before moving on we got some of the ‘bad news’… the slave cylinder had some really weird wear and the pilot bearing was equally bad.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/old%20TOB%20ugliness.jpg

It all lined up to a more serious transmission problem than we anticipated.

XLexusTech

07-16-2013, 06:23 PM

James if you get a chance i would be keen to know you thoughts on road noise without the Dynamat.. its a great product but i am concerned about weight..

Track Junky

07-16-2013, 06:38 PM

Glad to see you guys stepping it up another level Jim. :thumbsup:

fleetus macmullitz

07-16-2013, 06:58 PM

James,

Great thread. :thumbsup:

Outsider looking in sees the a/c paying for the weight penalty by keeping you guys much less fatigued from the heat and therefore sharper behind the wheel.

Your thoughts?

James OLC

07-16-2013, 07:15 PM

James if you get a chance i would be keen to know you thoughts on road noise without the Dynamat.. its a great product but i am concerned about weight..

I think that it does a great job and part of me regrets taking it out. If we weren't chasing tenths right now it would stay in.

Glad to see you guys stepping it up another level Jim. :thumbsup:

Thanks - we're trying

James,

Great thread. :thumbsup:

Outsider looking in sees the a/c paying for the weight penalty by keeping you guys much less fatigued from the heat and therefore sharper behind the wheel.

Your thoughts?

It's been five years and I've never charged the system - I think we'll live :)

Al Moreno

07-16-2013, 07:37 PM

WOW James, this car has really done a 360. Looks like it's evolving into the car you should had built from day one, LOL. Can't wait to see more!

:king:

Sieg

07-16-2013, 08:11 PM

I think that it does a great job and part of me regrets taking it out. If we weren't chasing tenths right now it would stay in.

Thanks - we're trying

It's been five years and I've never charged the system - I think we'll live :)

Now I how tough Mary's really is, and she strips DynaMat! :thumbsup:

James OLC

07-16-2013, 08:22 PM

Now I how tough Mary's really is, and she strips DynaMat! :thumbsup:

I have to tell you - and Mary will agree - that stripping Dynamat is probably the worst job either of us have ever done on the car. After the first day we were cut up, worn out, and just plain beat. There is no easy way to do it and anything that can kill a pair of mechanics wear gloves in a day is destroying your hands...

Sieg

07-16-2013, 08:36 PM

I have to tell you - and Mary will agree - that stripping Dynamat is probably the worst job either of us have ever done on the car. After the first day we were cut up, worn out, and just plain beat. There is no easy way to do it and anything that can kill a pair of mechanics wear gloves in a day is destroying your hands...

After 36+ years in the flooring business I know exactly what you're talking about. Imagine if the DynaMat was stuck to plywood and the area was 20' x 35'. :D

It was a love hate thing when I installed it in my car, knowing what I know, I only did the floor and tunnel. Adding weight and knowing it may have to be removed some day kept me from getting too carried away.

Looking forward to the last hurrah for OLC. :thumbsup:

preston

07-17-2013, 03:51 PM

Dynamat and similar products do not really mask sound - they really are only for keeping a panel from resonating. In the case of well corrugated floor panels I'm not sure they are doing that much for us - they are much more necessary on door panels and such that have large un-braced flexible sheet metal. The trend in car audio is to use only a smattering of panel resonance (dynamat) type products usually no more than 25% coverage even on door panels (worst case).

to truly block noise requires complete coverage by a mass loaded barrier usually MLV. Good news, its easily removeable - bad news it weighs even more than dynamat.

Check out SoundDeadenerSolutions.com for the full skinny.

I think we in the muscle car community out of sheer desperation have probably been way over using dynamat. That being said I often go for pretty full coverage as well just because I will do anything to quiet my car down.

Of course dynamat will never tell you that. Their other products that are designed for noise transmission are good but again the enemy is weight.

Once you have stopped a panel from ringing, you don't need more dynamat unless you want the thermal protection, and there are better products for such.

What happened to that bad ass '69 Camaro that Rodger was building ? I thought that was the successor to this car ?

I have fully dynamatted my '92 Cadillac and my 2003 Dodge Ram and the difference was minimal, maybe 2db at cruise after a lot of work. Its surprising how little factory sound deadening there is on the panels and I think this is whay, most of them are pretty "corrugated". But, there is a lot of foam and deadening pads, and again this is becuase they absorb and deflect noise whcih dynamat type products do NOT.

James OLC

07-17-2013, 04:22 PM

Dynamat surely has a place. We won't have it in most areas but there are some places that we just cant remove it from - right or wrong. For the right car I would still use it throughout (selecting from different products)...

The '69 is a whole other deal. It's coming home soon and I'll work to get it done for next year.

Ron in SoCal

07-17-2013, 05:09 PM

fleetus macmullitz

07-17-2013, 05:26 PM

James,

Ok, like you said, you haven't charged the a/c in 5 years.

Git 'er out. :D

James OLC

07-17-2013, 05:29 PM

James congrats on the progress! :thumbsup:

Question for you....you said in the update post you were going with Holly Dominator EFI and Davis TC. Curious why you didn't go Terminator? I believe it intergates TC but not sure it can handle your HP level?

Holley has a couple of great EFI options - the HP and the Dominator - that would've have worked for us (the Terminator is a 4150 TB style system). I chose the dominator for a couple of reasons... The Dominator allows for up to 4 tunes to be stored in the ECM which allows us some flexibility... the Dominator allows for DBW which might be desirable for advanced TC functions... Plus We might add a power adder and the Dominator is perfect for that...

Davis makes a TC system which is specifically designed to work with the Dominator and HP systems by Holley and is a straight plug and play solution.

Ron in SoCal

07-17-2013, 05:32 PM

Holley has a couple of great EFI options - the HP and the Dominator - that would've have worked for us (the Terminator is a 4150 TB style system). I chose the dominator for a couple of reasons... The Dominator allows for upmto 4 tunes to be stored in the ECM which allows is some flexibility... the Dominator allows for DBW which might be desirable for advanced TC functions... Plus We might add a power adder and the Dominator is perfect for that...

Davis makes a TC system which is specifically designed to work with the Dominator and HP systems by Holley and is a straight plug and play solution.

^ That's beautiful baby :cheers:

James OLC

07-17-2013, 08:47 PM

So with the old engine gone it was time to get things cleaned up and ready for what (at the time) was planned to be a “simple” engine swap. Mary dove in head first to tidy things up…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/mary%20cleaning%20engine%20compartment.jpg

but then, after some always dangerous thinking, talking, and planning we came to the decision that if there was ever a time to do a sub swap – it was now. There had always been a list of reasons not to do it but with the new front sheetmetal most of those reasons were gone. A huge part of the decision making process surrounded the factory “dry sump” oiling system. In stepping things up a notch there were some avenues we looked in to to add a scavenge stage to the oil system. None of them, however, would work with a stock subframe without a significant amount of cutting. Couple that with the need for a subframe for my other ’67 and I eventually convinced myself to do it.

After some talking with a couple of vendors I wound up working a deal with Art Morrison Enterprises to build a slightly custom subframe. The tweaks we requested were pretty minor and AME accommodated them without hesitation and a week later it was in the shop and off to powder.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/new%20sub%20in%20box.jpg

I know that you’re supposed to mock everything up and do all of the little work before committing to power coating but in this instance I just didn’t have the time to “waste”. With only a short travel fuse to work with we needed to have everything together for an all out thrash over the weekend.

Parts were ordered

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/boxes%20to%20start.jpg

and we were off!

James OLC

07-17-2013, 09:18 PM

Our starting point was the engine – although it came from Katech fully tested and broken in on the dyno we wanted to do an intake swap and do some work to the stock LS7 oil pan before bolting up the ATS Sidewinder accessory drive and modifying it to eliminate the AC compressor.

The intake of choice was an LSXR 102mm from FAST with Katech billet fuel rails. A pretty straight forward – albeit time consuming – installation.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/Installing%20intake%20-%20removed.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/Fast%20LSXR.jpg

which was followed by some modifications to the stock GM oil pan with an Aviad sump and windage tray. We’re working on some modifications to an ATS oil pan but those will have to wait for another day while we work out some of the details.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/aviad%20sump.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/aviad%20windage%20tray.jpg

and an Improved Racing thermostat

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/improved%20racing%20thermostat.jpg

with a GM -12AN conversion kit

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/an%20converions.jpg

Until finally everything was ready…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/new%20engine%20ready.jpg

That proved pretty easy. The first hiccup of the weekend came when we went to bolt the ATS Accessory drive on – the water pump wouldn’t clear the intake and the back of the impeller was interfering with the timing cover. Not a huge deal but an hour and change of messing around and grinding was needed to get everything to fit right

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/accessory%20drive.jpg

There is some more work to do but ultimately the AC bracket will be eliminated and a Katech tensioner will take its place – it looks like it will all work but we need to make some spacers to get it just right.

James OLC

07-18-2013, 09:13 PM

With the engine together and ready to go in we turned our attention to preparing the parts and pieces we would need for the new Art Morrison Enterprises subframe.

LG Motorsports hooked us up with some very cool parts and pieces for the C6 suspension.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/LG%20motorsports%20parts.jpg

Billet drop spindles, SKF Hubs, monoball spherical bearings and some prefabricated brake duct backing plates from LG Motorsports. The great thing about the billet spindles is that they incorporate a 1” drop and in our application allow for proper geometry of the lower control arms at a typical ride height.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/LG%20motorsports%20spindles.jpg

The down side is that the steering arm geometry winds up being off. The solution isn’t exactly simple or painless but we’ve done worse to new parts before. The fun begins by cutting the existing arms off the steering arm… nothing like permanently modifying brand new parts. David then went about fabricating some new steering arms.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/blank%20steering%20arms.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/steering%20arms%20to%20be%20welded.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/steering%20arms%20ready%20for%20tig.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/steering%20arm%20surorund%20ready.jpg

I’d love to be able to say that with the steering arms fabricated and the upright modified that we were on to installing the monoball bearings but, unfortunately, it wasn’t that simple. LG utilizes a press fit design that calls for 3/1000 interference – our control arms had 3 to 4 times that. We tried to work one in but weren’t happy with the way it felt to discretion being the better part of valor we decided to send the arms to LG for installation. Yeah – we chickened out – but I would rather be 100% sure that they were installed right.

The downside for us was that without the control arms we were dead in the water for the rest of the weekend. At least until David volunteered his front suspension for our mockup – we were back in the game!

James OLC

07-18-2013, 09:24 PM

Next step – remove the “stock” (and I use that term loosely and with all respect due a piece that has served us well for the last five years) subframe. Our starting point…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/old%20sub%20ready.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/Old%20sub%20ready%20to%20come%20out.jpg

Except of course… the old sub was kind of at home with the subframe connectors and all… thank you Mr. Plasma

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/david%20cutting%20plasma.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/dave%20with%20plasma%20cutter%20close.jpg

and with that done, the rest was easy and the old sub quickly found a spot on the floor beside the new one.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/new%20and%20old%20subs.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1967%20OLCR/2013/old%20sub%20and%20new.jpg

Next step – install the AME Subframe…

Track Junky

07-18-2013, 09:31 PM

http://i.imgur.com/Hkq3c.gif

Ron in SoCal

07-18-2013, 10:13 PM

Tom.A

07-18-2013, 10:18 PM

Love the updates. I may have missed it but was the wider front tire worth all the fab work in your opinion? I know OLC must have a fair amount of miles over the last 4 years and I would think with the last OLoA you have a few thousand more miles with the bigger tires to compare.

James OLC

07-18-2013, 10:26 PM

James if you get a chance I'd love to hear the design ideas on locating the steering arms. I haven't checked mine yet, and am wondering how much I may have thrown off AME ackerman and bump.

Your 'junk' looks spectacular, as usual!

Thanks Ron - let us get a bit more work/testing in and we can talk. We've done some preliminary work but we still don't have final ride height set to run through everything with 100% confidence.

Love the updates. I may have missed it but was the wider front tire worth all the fab work in your opinion? I know OLC must have a fair amount of miles over the last 4 years and I would think with the last OLoA you have a few thousand more miles with the bigger tires to compare.

Tom - I think that it was worth it. I wish the rest of the car would have been 100% but on the wet and dry skid pads we were markedly improved over previous years and the car was the easiest to drive that it has ever been. There are some fixes that are still required and at this point I'm not sure if the improvement comes from the tire width or the track width balance. I've gone back and forth on tires for the last couple of months and there might be some more work to do. At this point I know that I could fit 325s (and we could probably fit 345s) all round but don't think that it would be worth it.