Ouch... Wheels don't fit...

[BBC71Nova]

I'm slowly starting to appreciate the value in paying someone to just build the car and deliver it. True, the actual time/labor is part of it. The most value has to be with not having to deal with all the stress and frustration of stuff not fitting.

So I got my wheels in this week. Very nice. Only one problem. I just mocked them up and THEY DON'T FIT! :willy: . I had thought and was led to believe that using a wheel with known size and backspace was best method of determining what size new wheels to get.

I have a set of 15" X 10" wheels with tires mounted. The wheel is listed as a 5" backspace wheel. That setup fits fine but could stand to be 1/8" further inboard. With the new setup I went with an 18" X 11" wheel. Simple, right. Split the 1" difference in width yielding 5.5" backspace plus the extra 1/8" and voila new wheel needs to have 5 5/8th backspace to fit perfectly. NOPE. Apparently not.

So Either Weld or Vintage one measures wheels differently. From what I can tell the Weld wheel backspace is taken from the inner bead seat. The Vintage wheel is from wheel edge. The bead lip is ~1/2" and that roughly matches how much I'm off.

Fail! No telling how much this is gonna cost. There's gonna be a Nova bonfire before long.

OK I'm done venting :(

EDIT: more details later in the thread. Both Weld and everyone else does measure the same as you'd expect. After taking better measurements the variance in the Weld wheel is only 1/8" yielding 5.125 actual backspace. Probably considered within tolerance. Wheels spec'd out as planned aside from that. Just that after mounting I can see clearly that an additional .25" backspace would be ideal. Lessons learned: 1. Take actual measurements of the wheel you are using instead of trusting published specs, 2. within reason error on the side of more backspace since you can space them out later if necessary.

[Rick D]

Sorry that stinks but that's why you need to measure measure measure before you order wheels as no two cars are the same and there is always differences in wheel makers. What about rolling the lips on the qtrs???

[BBC71Nova]

Yeah that's the real suck part. I measured many many times and had multiple calls to make sure the logic with sizing was correct. Wow, that really worked out huh.

I knew a wheel edge to edge would measure wider than listed, e.g. 11" wheel is actually 12" wide. So it didn't seem too far fetched to think that the 1/2" difference in measured edge to pad backspace dimension was simply because it was also supposed to be measured from the inner bead seat.

I've had 2 sets of Weld wheels over the years in both 15x10 and 15x8 sizes. They both measured larger than listed backspace if you measured from the wheel lip to the pad.

Unfortunately the wheel lips were already trimmed so there's no answer other than new wheels I'm afraid.

[Ron in SoCal]

Man I feel for you John! To the best of my knowledge, there is only one way to measure backspace. Lay the wheel face down, put a straight edge over the barrel and measure from the pad up. Dave from Forgeline has a nice vid on the 48hour Camaro site:

shkIXOnIgF8

If I'm in your shoes and the BS doesn't match what I ordered using that method I'd be all over the vendor.

Good luck and hang in there! :yes:

[214Chevy]

..... there is only one way to measure backspace. Lay the wheel face down, put a straight edge over the barrel and measure from the pad up.

That's how I did it when I ordered my HRE's. I was scared to death because I had never done it before and with paying that amount of money for a set of wheels had me very, very nervous. Nonetheless, doing it that way had me spot on and everything fitted perfectly. I hope everything works out for you. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[BBC71Nova]

Yeah Ron, from what I can tell after researching more is that Vintage is using the method of going from the lip to the pad. That measurement is spot on the 5 5/8" we spec'd out.

The flaw in the logic was with using the Weld wheel with 5" backspace as a point of reference. That wheel measures more like 5.5" using the lip to pad measurement. Funny since Weld doesn't even sell a 5.5" backspace 15" X 10" Alumastar 2.0 wheel. Clearly this is the problem.

I'll talk to Vintage tomorrow and see what the options are.

[FETorino]

THEY DON'T FIT! :willy: . I had thought and was led to believe that using a wheel with known size and backspace was best method of determining what size new wheels to get.

I have a set of 15" X 10" wheels with tires mounted. The wheel is listed as a 5" backspace wheel. That setup fits fine but could stand to be 1/8" further inboard.

With the new setup I went with an 18" X 11" wheel. Simple, right. Split the 1" difference in width yielding 5.5" backspace plus the extra 1/8" and voila new wheel needs to have 5 5/8th backspace to fit perfectly. NOPE. Apparently not.

:(

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. If 5" bs is fine but it could be 1/8" more inboard then you want 5.125" bs. If you go from a 10 to an 11" width the BS doesn't change you still have only the 5.125" to work with inboard. The question is with the 10" wheel did you have the extra .875" outboard to allow for the wider width wheel? You didn't say but from your measurements I would guarantee that the wheel is hitting the tubs cuz you have .5" to much BS. :(

[BBC71Nova]

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. If 5" bs is fine but it could be 1/8" more inboard then you want 5.125" bs. If you go from a 10 to an 11" width the BS doesn't change you still have only the 5.125" to work with inboard. The question is with the 10" wheel did you have the extra .875" outboard to allow for the wider width wheel? You didn't say but from your measurements I would guarantee that the wheel is hitting the tubs cuz you have .5" to much BS. :(

Sorry if it is confusing. I should have mentioned the tire differences. The current tires I have are 325/50-15 at 13.1" wide. Even with the wider 11" wheel the new wheel/tire combo will be narrower at ~12.5". To maintain the same relative tire/wheel positioning in the wheel tub you just take the extra inch and apply it evenly to both sides of the centerline. So that would be 5.5" BS. Then the extra .125" makes is 5.625.

As it stands now I have about 1.5-2" clearance between this wheel and the inner wheel tub. The problem is the wheel is too far outboard and thus the tire will be into the outer wheelhouse. The 1/2" extra BS would center it up. So I need ~6.125" backspace I guess.

[skatinjay27]

so john why didnt you go by the the actual measurement on the weld wheel and not the stamped number?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

no matter what you did or where you did it, its done. Hope they can take it back. Most rim makers are ok as long as you didn't mount a tire on it.

[BBC71Nova]

Note: I apologize this turned into a novel :_paranoid .

OK I think this might be alright. So that is great news. I totally set myself up for this. Since the beginning of the project I had been worried about getting wheels and just expected them to not fit. That plus all the other fitment issues lately and I was just a build hypochondriac :rolleyes: .

I went back out last night and took a lot more measurements and took more time with it. Initially I was just eyeballing it. Here's what I found:

1. I had not completely raised the rearend back up to ride height on the side I was using. I had to lower it the other week to remove the tire. I raised it back up then to where it looked close. This meant the rearend was tilted. With the large diameter wheel, the top outer wheel lip was out some due to this. Leveled rearend at ride height like it was for initial measurements. This pulls the wheel lip away from the outer wheelhouse.

2. Initially I had just placed the wheels on the studs. This time I secured with the lugnuts because I had noticed the rotor wasn't seated all the way. So that had also pushed the wheel out a small amount.

3. Being used to the small diameter wheels and tires with a lot of bulge, I didn't consider initially the fact that the tire (12.4" section) when mounted on the wheel (12" total width) only sticks out past the rim <.25". As planned the wheel will be ~.5" closer to the outer wheelhouse. So what visually looked to me like a wheel way too far out to allow room for tire and clearance isn't actually that bad.

4. I remeasured the backspacing of both wheels. I expected some margin of error/variance from spec similar to my experience with other parts, e.g. axles and rearend. The VWW are absolutely perfect to spec at 5.125". Kudos to Eli and Rusty at VWW. Nice product and great service.

Since I had tires mounted on the Welds it was a little tougher to get good measurement when I checked weeks ago. I basically tried to find a straightedge to fit inside the tire bulges. I knowingly didn't get a good measurement with this and didn't sweat it because I knew what the wheel was *supposed* to be and I had thought measurement was from inner bead. That is, I incorrectly ASSummed it would/should measure larger than spec by roughly the width of the wheel lip which is ~3/8". After remeasuring last night I found the Weld wheel to actually be really close to spec and only off by 1/8". Seeing that was a fantastic feeling and gave me hope.

So with all of that I had gained 1/8" here and there which added up. Most importantly I thought about the low profile tire not requiring as much clearance.

After all this I can tell that ideally it would have another .25" of backspace. There's plenty of room on the inside with tightest point being roughly 1.125". On the other side there is >.5" of clearance between wheel lip and the interior surface of the outer wheelhouse. If the tire truly only sticks out .25" past the wheel edge then I should have .25" of clearance at all points throughout the vertical travel range. It could get tight as it articulates though. FWIW I used a plumb bob and straightedge to take these measurements.

SO... I think things are OK enough that I may go ahead and order tires soon and mount them up. In hindsight I wished I would've been more aggressive with cheating everything to the inside. You can always - within reason - add a wheel spacer to push it out but there is nothing much you can do to pull it in. Some wheels I guess you can mill the pad but not these probably.

I love the wheels. They are huge. Can't imagine a 12" or 13" wheel like some of you have clearance to run. I'll get some pics soon.

[MarkM66]

no matter what you did or where you did it, its done. Hope they can take it back. Most rim makers are ok as long as you didn't mount a tire on it.

That hasn't been my experience.

I've always been told, once your order a custom wheel, it's yours. Changes are made at buyers expense.

[BBC71Nova]

Here are some pics. As expected those 11" brakes are swallowed by those 18" wheels. Maybe one day the budget will allow me to upgrade to some big boy brakes :lol: :lol: .

This is ride height. I'm going back and forth about swapping out the G-link shock crossmember with a DSE like setup. That way I get another 1" lower and exhaust clearance.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/BBC71Nova/NovaProject/wheel5.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/BBC71Nova/NovaProject/wheel2.jpg

Looking up showing outer wheelhouse to wheel lip.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/BBC71Nova/NovaProject/wheel3.jpg

Showing inner wheelhouse to wheel lip.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/BBC71Nova/NovaProject/wheel4.jpg

[Payton King]

That does suck. On the brighter side your car is not painted. Bulge those quarters a tad. Normally on a 69 Camaro you want about 3/4 an inch from tire bulge to lip. Not sure on a Nova.

I am digging those wheels

[IMPALA MAN]

I realize this issue involves the rear wheels. However, for any other people that get rims that end up being too wide, this will help on the front only. I ran into a similar issue that was my fault. My car happens to have the same uppers and lowers as a 2nd gen Camaro. I lucked out and knew that Heidts offers a set of narrowed uppers and lowers. They offer this for the 1st gen as well. I ebayed the other control arms and ordered the narrowed. It was cheaper than having the wheels re done.
Hope this helps.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Bulge those quarters a tad...

This would be my advice as well since Vintage won't take back those V40's...if you don't mind me asking,who said an 11" wheel would fit your Nova? :rolleyes:

[rwhite692]

Hate to say it, but, you won't be OK with a wheel and tire package that wide, on a stock wheelwell. You have to have room for articulation of your axle which when it occurs is going to mean that the tire sidewalls are going to rub. ***EDIT: I see from reading your other thread that you have installed mini-tubs...I think if you have a problem, it will only be at the inside upper center portion of the outer wheelhouse, where it curves inward.

[Injected65]

Depending on the rear end style and particular brakes, you might look and see if there is anything that can be done to reduce the brake offset to narrow the flange to flange measurement of the rear end. That would help bring the wheels under the car a touch. I've done this on a 9" by custom making new caliper mounts and having the spacers on the strange axles cut down to move the axle inward.

Chris

[BBC71Nova]

I now think it is gonna be ok. Not ideal but ii don't think it will even run at full compression. I had a 13.1" combo stuffed up in there and it didn't much rub at full compression. This combo is narrower by over .25" per side.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

you might just have problems going into driveways. can you roll that outer lip more?

[BBC71Nova]

Just to wrap this up...

Yesterday my tires showed up so of course I rushed over to drop them off for mount and balance. Late last night I got a chance to throw them under the car and check clearances. They fit awesome! Plenty of clearance throughout the suspension travel, articulation, etc. Whew. That's a huge concern lifted.

I'll try and get some pics this weekend. The Vintage Wheel Works 18"X11" V40 wheels look awesome.

I'm thinking now that a Ridetech setup is gonna have to happen on the front. Those 235 tires on the 8" wheel look tiny :).

[MaxHarvard]

FWIW, I had a similar problem with mine and had to use some spacers because I didn't measure my rear-end properly (better too short than too long I suppose).

I needed about a 1/2" at least on the frame side of the wheel for articulation, drive ways and such and another 1/2" on the outer part for the same reason. It's a super tight fit, but you need to make sure you'll have good room for articulation.

On top of that, a small fender bead roll wouldn't hurt and I doubt anyone would notice.

Good luck,

~Eric

[SR71]

so what size tire did you go with?

I went through the exact same ordeal. my fitment logic was the same as yours. but I ended up narrowing my rear 3/4" on each side.

it was worth it though, because those 335's look badass. :thumbsup:

[BBC71Nova]

I went with the 305/35-18. I'd rather have a 315 size but never could really find one. As much as I'd like to have the 335, I just can't see those ever fitting. Oh and VWW wheels only come in widths up to 11". As much as I'd love to have some Formula 43 Laguna Gray Profile 5s they just weren't in the budget at the moment. Maybe some day...

I also wanted to go with the R888. I ended up the Nitto 555R. Reasons being:

1. Not sure when i'll get the car on the road so the less I spend on tires the better since they might dry rot :)
2. Not convinced I would like this size so spending less makes changing later easier
3. Discount Tire was running a Labor Day sale with 100$ rebate on set of 4. That and their free shipping ended up making this 555/555R combo $400 or so cheaper.

[Ripped]

If you have some more inner wheel well clearance, you can always have the inner portion of the wheel, cut and extended. That will "pull" your tire into the wheelhouse more, or might allow you to run a wider tire.

On my front wheels, I used an off the shelf 85-04 mustang wheel (1/4-1/3 the price of custom wheels);
Then I had the backspacing cut and reduced by 1.125"
The wheel still rubbed on the outer edge, so I had the wheel shop, lathe off 0.1875 from the hub face of the wheel, allowing me about another 3/16" clearance.

It doesn't sound like much, but together it all works.

Also using a narrower wheel, example 10.5" instead of 11.5" will "square-up" the tire bulge ad give you a little more room. It might cause your tires to round up a bit and wear sooner, but hell who cares if you're running a lot of HP or cornering hard, you're going to wear them out anyway.

Most wheel modification shops will lathe down the welds, and polish them also, if you want a more finished look.

Hope it all works for you.

[SR71]

my 335's look perfect on an 11" wheel. the section width is 13". I know that 11.5 is the min spec wheel, but the 03-04 cobra guys run them on 10.5's with no problems. an 11.5 just would not fit on my car.

I ended up with 335's because there is no other true street radial bigger than 295 in 18". there is plenty of selection in drag radials, but I wanted real, stiff sidewall, full tread depth, ain't skeered of the rain or cold street tires.