67 Camaro with independent rearend suspension

[blazincopper]

Has anyone or can you put a late model Camaro(2010 or up), new GTO, or G8 rearend under a 1st Gen camaro?
I have a 67 Camaro and I just bought a 2009 Pontiac G8 GT as a donor car. I'm going to use the 6.0 engine and trans and I was wondering about the rear end.
Can it be done, has it been done, and what would be the pros or cons?

Thanks.

By the way I went to the Nashville Goodguys show last weekend and watched the autocross and I'm in love. I set there for 2 hours watching people run.Now I think I might be putting some more money in the suspension budget :D

[Rick D]

Anything can be DONE! What are your fab skills, or how big is your check book? I know there have been a few done with C4, and C5. There a couple of C6 builds going on right now, search the project forums. Also let's see some pictures of what you are working on! :thumbsup:

[blazincopper]

I'll start a build thread in the next week or two. The G8 is being delivered tomorrow and I'll get some mearsurements to how the axle widths compare and measure the factory cradle to see if it will bolt to the Camaro frame with out too much trouble. I can make a cradle if I have to, but I'm sure it will fit like glove :yes: :yes: :unibrow:

I would assume that it would handle better than a tubed axle and some moderate aftermarket suspension upgrades, what do you think?

[Track Junky]

I would assume that it would handle better than a tubed axle and some moderate aftermarket suspension upgrades, what do you think?

Depends on who you ask :unibrow: :lol:

[bdahlg68]

G8 is a pretty wide car. If you use the G8 subframe and leave the geometry as is, you may need some fender flares. Besides that you will need to fab custom rear frame rails and trunk pan and figure out what to do with the gas tank. No real reason that it wouldn't work like people mentioned. Skills and money go a long way.

[John510]

It would be easier to just buy the new Roadster shop IRS chassis. Those are so bad ass!

[Track Junky]

Just like mentioned before, anything is possible. Newman Creations did one with a C4 rear section and I know there are at least a handful of others that have done an independent rear swap. If you do a search I'm sure you will find a few threads to help with ideas.

[FETorino]

My google tape measure says the total width of a 67 Camaro is 72.3 in vs the total width of a G8 at 74.8 in.

I'm not that familiar with a G8 but pretty much all modern cars run a deep backspace wheel so if you put the G8 independent rear in as is then you won't have nay dish on your real wheels or as said in the previous post you would need to widen the body to use it. :rolleyes:

If you are a talented fabricator looking for a project I say go for it. :thumbsup:

But

There are so many well engineered options for first gens. Either bolt in subframes, 4 links and truck arms or something like an RS chassis. If I were in your shoes I'd choose the latter and focus my $$ and attention on other parts of the car. :D

Nice Bronco. What's the story on it.

[ErikLS2]

You might like to read over this thread:

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?84491-350z-rearend-67-camaro&highlight=350z+rear

[Simmo]

I personally wouldnt go to the hassle for the G8 (commodore) rear, IMO it's not enough of a performance upgrade to warrant the hassle. It's full of compromises for comfort/packaging etc.

But heck, if you want somthing different and you've got the skills to do it, go ahead!

[Simmo]

Double post

[legend]

the fixed length half shaft IRS versions appear to be based on the old Jaguar XJ6 type rear ends that were quite poor in terms of geometry. A live rear axle is "theoretically" very poor, but many people get them to work well.

I'm driving an old E38 bmw at the moment and the rear suspension of those is a slightly better compromise in terms of geometry than the Jaguar derived units is and it all comes on a cradle. I've no idea about the GTo stuff as we don't get them in the UK.

http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/images/tech0009b.jpg

JAG IRS, design is older than the 1st gen camaro stuff, but the v12 diff is very strong

"The Jaguar IRS is really a fine design, but has a flaw called "dreaded roll oversteer", caused by the action of the two trailing arms when the rear suspension compresses. As you are aware, the cage is mounted to the "frame" using molded rubber mounts, to allow the whole unit to move. It really moves about + or - 3/4 " if you snap out the clutch ! If you really watch this happen, you'll flip out! In a hard turn, the wheel on the side of the car whose suspension's being compressed, is forced rearward by the effective lengthening of that side's trailing arm, while the reverse is happening on the opposite side, pulling that wheel forward ! This, in effect, is rear wheel steering, without asking for it. "

Cobra into mustang swap here

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/593694-another-cobra-irs-swap-lots-big-pics.html

Awsome home built suspension guide
http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/new_project_suspension_page1.htm
http://www.beardmorebros.co.uk/Images/Project%20images/suspension/28%20rear%20on.jpg

[blazincopper]

I got the donor car in yesterday - It has an aftermarket intake, Corsa Exhaust, and some dynaspeed and hypertech stickers on the intake. Sound great - about 60,000 miles on it. I'm going to try to use as much of the G8 stuff as I can. I've got to check and see if it has some of the dynaspeed and hypertech stuff in it

I plan on starting on it in a about 2 weeks. I have to finish up a Bronco I'm building for a customer first.

Thanks for the Bronco compliment - I build Early Broncos(1966-1977) in my spare time. I have some better pics, but they were to large to upload.

[preston]

IRS isn't that big of a mystery. I would use a 9" section and couplers/axles from Dutchman and use C5/C6 uprights and build your own control arms. Actually, I would probably build my own uprights too, but much easier to use Corvette parts. Not that big of a deal although kind of expensive.

The only mystery to me is you might get all the handling geometry right (in the computer obviously) but still end up with wheel hop or harmonic issues due to bushing compliance, resonance, etc. The OEM's can test and model that stuff out, but the home hobbyist might run into some gotchas.

ONe of my bigger regrets with the last car I built was that I didn't go IRS, but probably for the best. It was gonna add $4k to the cost of the car and at the time I was trying to be prudent.

[blazincopper]

thanks everybody, great advice. I think I am going to do the rear end closer to the end of the project. Still not sure about what I'm going to do - I need to figure wheel size, gear ratio, what back spacing I really want, etc.

What gear ratio are most LS cars running. I have the 6L80 automatic trans and I currently have a 373 posi under the car. The IRS on the G8 is suppose to be a 292.

[Tuske427]

Thanks for the Bronco compliment - I build Early Broncos(1966-1977) in my spare time. I have some better pics, but they were to large to upload.

Not to hijack- but if you're a Bronco fan, check out this '67 Bronco ;)

http://hotwheels.wikia.com/wiki/%2767_Ford_Bronco

[badmatt]

Wasn't there a guy on here using a 04-06 GTO rear subframe?

[Darth Praxis]

I have been looking into IRS for a while now and one of the coolest (definitely not the cheapest @ $8000) ways to do it is with the Heidts bolt-in IRS.

http://www.heidts.com/_uploaded_files/high_horsepower_irs.jpg

There's a hell of a lot less hassle involved and it just looks bitchin'. Watch the video they have on it in a Camaro running an autocross coarse. Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybODyxYpF9g

also the main site link:

http://www.heidts.com/6769_camaro_rear_independent_suspension.html

[Darth Praxis]

Now if you want to go ALL out, and make your car absolutely badass, put this setup in front:

http://www.classicindustries.com/images/productimg/a/am676901.jpg

For those not in the know, this in an Art Morrison AME GT Sport front clip for a 67-69 Camaro, utilizing modified C6 spindles and stock C6 uppper/lower A-arms. I hope to put BOTH the Heidts IRS and this front clip into my 67 Camaro......some day! :yes:

http://www.artmorrison.com/camaro.php

[RS-Chris]

It would be easier to just buy the new Roadster shop IRS chassis. Those are so bad ass!

:thumbsup:
Even though the op already has his donor car, I'll leave the info for others thinking of doing similar.
We offer the IRS setup in two flavours: Full chassis (http://www.roadstershop.com/products/1967-1969-fast-track-camaro-chassis) or separately (http://www.roadstershop.com/products/suspension-independent-rear-unit)

Our setup is based around specific geometry setup for pro-touring sized vehicles and their appropriate track widths so you don't have to run rear wheels with weird offsets or any external flares, bulges etc. It has been engineered from scratch around the weights, sizes and intended use of our pro-touring/performance vehicles and as such it is not based on an antiquated Jag setup or modified street rod platform. The Fast Track IRS also uses conventionally mounted outboard brakes for easy rotor and pad changes and countless brake package options. It is also built to accommodate high horsepower (+600) with drive axle options to withstand hp well into the 4 digit range.:unibrow:

Here is the IRS as a full chassis for a 1st Gen Camaro:

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/RS-Perf/Untitled.jpg

And a vid on the setup:

ntCPCwr9ZXE

[214Chevy]

I have been looking into IRS for a while now and one of the coolest (definitely not the cheapest @ $8000) ways to do it is with the Heidts bolt-in IRS.

http://www.heidts.com/_uploaded_files/high_horsepower_irs.jpg



Not to take anything away from Heidt's, but that IRS is in no way even comparable to the one RS makes. And they are similar in price. Just my opinion. I'm sure with the forged axles, big 934 CV joint's and thick control arms that the RS IRS trumps that old inboard brake style IRS that Heidt's makes. Furthermore, the Heidt's IRS is suited more for hot rod style cars. The RS IRS is custom CNC'd and the railing on it is just more slick to me.

[RS-Chris]

what does that full frame irs setup set one back??? nice looking piece btw

Thanks!
All our pricing and options can be found HERE (http://www.roadstershop.com/products/chassis-muscle-car) for the full frames.

[Tuske427]

Thanks!
All our pricing and options can be found HERE (http://www.roadstershop.com/products/chassis-muscle-car) for the full frames.


Wow! Your products make me want to throw my car out and start over :bow:

[clill]

Now if you want to go ALL out, and make your car absolutely badass, put this setup in front:

http://www.classicindustries.com/images/productimg/a/am676901.jpg

For those not in the know, this in an Art Morrison AME GT Sport front clip for a 67-69 Camaro, utilizing modified C6 spindles and stock C6 uppper/lower A-arms. I hope to put BOTH the Heidts IRS and this front clip into my 67 Camaro......some day! :yes:

http://www.artmorrison.com/camaro.php

If you put that sub in as shown it will not be badass. It has a 13/16 swaybar as shown. Watch early videos of Jackass and you can see it leaning thru turns. Make sure when you upgrade to their larger splined and that they have solved the steering rack location issue that had the swaybar end link hitting the threaded part of the rack end links. Fixable stuff but something you want to address ahead of time.

[Jr]

If you put that sub in as shown it will not be badass. It has a 13/16 swaybar as shown. Watch early videos of Jackass and you can see it leaning thru turns. Make sure when you upgrade to their larger splined and that they have solved the steering rack location issue that had the swaybar end link hitting the threaded part of the rack end links. Fixable stuff but something you want to address ahead of time.

Charley, do you have any other criticism of the ame sub frame? Anything else that can be done to fix the issues? Are yOu happy with the overall performance after the fixes?

[ProTouring442]

the fixed length half shaft IRS versions appear to be based on the old Jaguar XJ6 type rear ends that were quite poor in terms of geometry. A live rear axle is "theoretically" very poor, but many people get them to work well.

I'm driving an old E38 bmw at the moment and the rear suspension of those is a slightly better compromise in terms of geometry than the Jaguar derived units is and it all comes on a cradle. I've no idea about the GTo stuff as we don't get them in the UK.

http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/images/tech0009b.jpg

JAG IRS, design is older than the 1st gen camaro stuff, but the v12 diff is very strong

"The Jaguar IRS is really a fine design, but has a flaw called "dreaded roll oversteer", caused by the action of the two trailing arms when the rear suspension compresses. As you are aware, the cage is mounted to the "frame" using molded rubber mounts, to allow the whole unit to move. It really moves about + or - 3/4 " if you snap out the clutch ! If you really watch this happen, you'll flip out! In a hard turn, the wheel on the side of the car whose suspension's being compressed, is forced rearward by the effective lengthening of that side's trailing arm, while the reverse is happening on the opposite side, pulling that wheel forward ! This, in effect, is rear wheel steering, without asking for it. "

Yes and no....

The Jag unit that came with trailing arms is the one that seems to move around a bit, though there seems to be some debate as to whether or not it was "designed" to do so. Ditching the soft rubber mounts on the cage, and using a trailing arm that pivots in line with the dog bones makes for a very nice set up.

Wasn't there a guy on here using a 04-06 GTO rear subframe?

Yeah, but he hasn't posted any updates in a while.

The GTO is a semi-trailing arm design. Not a bad unit at all. I have been considering the GTO and Jag units, but I think the Jag s probably the better design. Jag has used a variation of it right up into the new millennium, so it can't be all bad!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill