Magnesium bellhousing -- yes or no

[Flash68]

Please weigh in.

Predictable responses:

"Do you like your feet?"

"Is weight savings worth it to you?"

Anything else? :D

[FETorino]

Uh WHY :question:

if your flywheel lets lose at 7k you'll lose more than your feet bud.:(

It's your body parts so I say the weight savings is definitely worth it. :rofl:

[Flash68]

Uh WHY :question:

if your flywheel lets lose at 7k you'll lose more than your feet bud.:(

It's your body parts so I say the weight savings is definitely worth it. :rofl:

I guess I am curious what applications these make sense in then (yes, race cars). But do those cars have an extra layer of protection between the bell and the driver then? If not, why are they risking it and is a major failure common?

[GregWeld]

The higher the RPMs -- there will be a increasing risk of catastrophic failure.


If you're being paid millions to race and risk "everything" -- sure...

We're doing TRACK DAYS.... and paying for that privilege to boot! The compromise is building in a bit of reliability, and SAFETY, so we can continue to have fun.

Regardless of choice.... Drivers skills (seat time) will beat weight savings every time. :D

[badmatt]

I dunno, I went mag, Tilton says they put there rep on it being stronger than an aluminum piece...

Im still putting a blanket around mine... 75 bucks for a blanket compared to loosing my legs? cheap insurance..

Matt

PS: My aluminum bell (no throw out) is 11lbs.. my mag bell with the throw out 8.2lbs.. the mag bell looks cooler though..

[Flash68]

I should have mentioned we already have a magnesium bell in hand so that is part of the analysis here. The Tilton 7.25" triple is already going in no matter what. Rated to 930 ft lbs with a sub-10 lb flywheel.

The higher the RPMs -- there will be a increasing risk of catastrophic failure.


If you're being paid millions to race and risk "everything" -- sure...

We're doing TRACK DAYS.... and paying for that privilege to boot! The compromise is building in a bit of reliability, and SAFETY, so we can continue to have fun.

Regardless of choice.... Drivers skills (seat time) will beat weight savings every time. :D

Yeah I get that but I gotta think the high dollar teams and drivers using this setups must have some sort of protection built in. Nascar is pretty damn serious about safety these days and with all the wrecks and failures the cars seem to protect the drivers pretty darn well.

I dunno, I went mag, Tilton says they put there rep on it being stronger than an aluminum piece...

Im still putting a blanket around mine... 75 bucks for a blanket compared to loosing my legs? cheap insurance..

Matt

PS: My aluminum bell (no throw out) is 11lbs.. my mag bell with the throw out 8.2lbs.. the mag bell looks cooler though..

A blanket. Ok there's an idea. Who makes the blanket you have? I figured there had to be something like that but did not see any reference to the term "blanket."

Yep my research shows the following:

Steel 21 lbs
Alum 12 lbs
Mag 8 lbs

But again, we already have a mag bell with the clutch kit.

Thanks guys

[badmatt]

just the basic RCI trans blanket its SFI 4.1

buddy of mine has his glide blow apart... the blanket kept it contained perfectly.. and soaked up some fluid too! WIN WIN

[MillerBuilt]

If you are trying to save weight, stick with the Kevlar over the Ballistic Nylon.....more $ for the Kevlar but I assume you are in it for weight savings since the bell is Mag. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

just the basic RCI trans blanket its SFI 4.1

buddy of mine has his glide blow apart... the blanket kept it contained perfectly.. and soaked up some fluid too! WIN WIN

Cool. I'll have to consider this and research some more.

If you are trying to save weight, stick with the Kevlar over the Ballistic Nylon.....more $ for the Kevlar but I assume you are in it for weight savings since the bell is Mag. :thumbsup:

Weight savings is nice but not a driving force over safety. If we didn't already have the mag bell, I'm not sure I'd go out and source one.

Thanks for the tip.

[MillerBuilt]

Weight savings is nice but not a driving force over safety. If we didn't already have the mag bell, I'm not sure I'd go out and source one.

Thanks for the tip.

I completely agree, safety first! May wanna just shelf the mag and drop the necessary funds for a Quicktime?

I am not so sure a trans blanket is the correct application for the road course anyhow.....I am thinking the blanket will trap heat and raise tranny temps?

[FETorino]

I completely agree, safety first! May wanna just shelf the mag and drop the necessary funds for a Quicktime?

I am not so sure a trans blanket is the correct application for the road course anyhow.....I am thinking the blanket will trap heat and raise tranny temps?

I think a good quality kevlar trans blanket may approach the cost of a new quicktime. :rolleyes:

You have a SBC it's not like a steel skattershield for a SBC is hard hard part to find used at a good price. JMO I like things simple so I'd just go steel scattershield and not look back.

[GregWeld]

You ain't gonna beat me no matter what you weigh... might as well go and load up on excuses.

Save your money -- Susie is going to need it <for shoes>

[Flash68]

I completely agree, safety first! May wanna just shelf the mag and drop the necessary funds for a Quicktime?

I am not so sure a trans blanket is the correct application for the road course anyhow.....I am thinking the blanket will trap heat and raise tranny temps?

Yeah that might be an issue huh. I'm looking into the Quicktime as well. Thanks.

I think a good quality kevlar trans blanket may approach the cost of a new quicktime. :rolleyes:

You have a SBC it's not like a steel skattershield for a SBC is hard hard part to find used at a good price. JMO I like things simple so I'd just go steel scattershield and not look back.

True. I see them all over so that won't be an issue. It's always nice to just use what you have laying around. :unibrow:

You ain't gonna beat me no matter what you weigh... might as well go and load up on excuses.

Save your money -- Susie is going to need it <for shoes>

Oh I see you have changed your stance from sandbagger to frontrunner. :lol:

She does love her some nice high dollar running shoes. :willy:

[Sieg]

I'd go safety first, it's recreation. Legs are my primary concern and fire factor is the second.

Do you know the weights of the mag and Quicktime?

[Flash68]

I'd go safety first, it's recreation. Legs are my primary concern and fire factor is the second.

Do you know the weights of the mag and Quicktime?

No scale at the shop but everything points to about 8 lbs for mag, 11 for aluminum and 20-24 for steel variations.

Here's a Tilton in steel @ 24 lbs.

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/tilton4.htm

[intocarss]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/scan0032-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/HandControls.jpg


I am not so sure a trans blanket is the correct application for the road course anyhow.....I am thinking the blanket will trap heat and raise tranny temps?

100% correct And I've never seen a trans blanket that covers the bell housing also how to you run a trans blanket with a stick? it'll have to go under the shifting rods

[FETorino]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/scan0032-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/HandControls.jpg





That would be a NO vote for magnesium. :wow:

[Flash68]

I've never seen a trans blanket that covers the bell housing also how to you run a trans blanket with a stick? it'll have to go under the shifting rods

Yeah that does seem to be the case after further review.

Matt, you still gonna run a blanket with your 4 speed?

That would be a NO vote for magnesium. :wow:

I concur!

[Flash68]

Dangit I just missed this one for half price. :mad:

http://www.racingjunk.com/Manual-Transmissions/2546752/Quicktime-Bellhousing-chevy-RM-6010.html

[GregWeld]

I think Prada makes a bell housing protector.... Or maybe it's Jimmy Choo?

[Payton King]

of the mag bellhousing. If I am not mistaken with the light clutch and flywheel, it may not generate enough force to go through the bellhousing, hence why they use them in NASCAR and most forms or road racing.

That was what I was told, but I have not researched it myself. If I have time a will make a few calls, but do not take my word for it.

[intocarss]

What's wrong with the scatter shield you have now? If it's just weight, drink lite beers, have one less burger or break out the sawzall and take weight out somewhere else.

Did you know that if you remove the 1/4 window crank assemblies you'll get 15-20# out, then pin the window back in and it won't cost you more then time and a couple of bucks :cheers:

[Flash68]

I think Prada makes a bell housing protector.... Or maybe it's Jimmy Choo?

I'll have Susie Q get right on that... With a budget limit of course! :_paranoid

of the mag bellhousing. If I am not mistaken with the light clutch and flywheel, it may not generate enough force to go through the bellhousing, hence why they use them in NASCAR and most forms or road racing.

That was what I was told, but I have not researched it myself. If I have time a will make a few calls, but do not take my word for it.

Payton, that's a good idea. Sometimes we are quick to ask all of our expert friends on the internet instead of calling the maker of the product! :lol:
I will call Tilton today.

What's wrong with the scatter shield you have now? If it's just weight, drink lite beers, have one less burger or break out the sawzall and take weight out somewhere else.

Did you know that if you remove the 1/4 window crank assemblies you'll get 15-20# out, then pin the window back in and it won't cost you more then time and a couple of bucks :cheers:

Nothing wrong with it other than it's huge, heavy, banged up, made for a 11" clutch and likely not drilled for my throwout bearing, and weighs as much as a Torino. :rofl:

I do like the window crank idea Jer... it's on the list. :unibrow:

[Flash68]

Talked to Tilton. Here's what I got:

Their aluminum and magnesium bells are not SFI rated because their applications do not require the certs.

They do not make steel anymore and only did because IMCA required it for awhile.

He has never in his 15 years seen or heard of any of the Tilton clutches exploding and going thru a bell.

The magnesium and aluminum bells would not sustain a hit of an exploding it was to happen, but these types of racing clutches are not the type that explode.

Their clutches are tested up to 26,000 rpm.
__________________________________________

Ok I feel better but not sure how much better... :lol:

Jerry, maybe that's why your picture is about 30 years old and black and white because these don't really explode anymore like he mentioned? :question:

[Vegas69]

Never say never and never believe a manufacturer when they say never.:lol:

[badmatt]

Yeah that does seem to be the case after further review.

Matt, you still gonna run a blanket with your 4 speed?



I concur!

over the trans? no, over bell? yes.

[intocarss]

Talked to Tilton. Here's what I got:

Their aluminum and magnesium bells are not SFI rated because their applications do not require the certs.

They do not make steel anymore and only did because IMCA required it for awhile.

He has never in his 15 years seen or heard of any of the Tilton clutches exploding and going thru a bell.

The magnesium and aluminum bells would not sustain a hit of an exploding it was to happen, but these types of racing clutches are not the type that explode.

Their clutches are tested up to 26,000 rpm.
__________________________________________

Ok I feel better but not sure how much better... :lol:

Jerry, maybe that's why your picture is about 30 years old and black and white because these don't really explode anymore like he mentioned? :question: LOL I talked today with a couple of transmission guys and they seem to think that a Mag bell housing is strong enough to hold a exploding clutch I even called Quartermaster to ask if it is stronger then a scattershield http://www.quartermasterusa.com/qm/magnesium-reverse-mount-starter-ford-bellhousing-for-bert-brinn-falcon-clutchless-transmissions.html

And the Tech said "a mag bell housing is NOT SFI approved but NASCAR does run them up to 11,000 rpm" so take that for what's it worth

HEY what do I know, I ran a powerglide with an air shifter LOL. I did spend $1500 on a Reid case cuz i like my legs. So yes i stand corrected ;)

[TheJDMan]

Have any of you ever seen magnesium burn? I have and I can tell you it ain't pretty. Back in the 70's I remember a sprint car crash at a local 1/2mile dirt tack where half the field got tangled up on the front straight. One car caught fire and ignited five or six others. Once they got hot enough the magnesium wheels caught fire and there was no putting out the fire after that. All cars were destroyed, several drivers were badly burned and one burned to death. I would never consider magnesium parts in any build after witnessing that tragedy.

[FETorino]

Nothing wrong with it other than it's huge, heavy, banged up, made for a 11" clutch and likely not drilled for my throwout bearing, and weighs as much as a Torino. :rofl:
:

Well if it's that light then why not run it.:rofl:

[intocarss]

Have any of you ever seen magnesium burn? I have and I can tell you it ain't pretty. Back in the 70's I remember a sprint car crash at a local 1/2mile dirt tack where half the field got tangled up on the front straight. One car caught fire and ignited five or six others. Once they got hot enough the magnesium wheels caught fire and there was no putting out the fire after that. All cars were destroyed, several drivers were badly burned and one burned to death. I would never consider magnesium parts in any build after witnessing that tragedy. I've seen it, I used to have cans of magnesium chips and would light piles of chips on fire then drip or spray water on it.. It was like the 4th of July it would leave holes in the concrete too. I do believe they banned Mag wheels in racing because of fire

[Track Junky]

I wouldn't use a magneseum bellhousing even if it was given to me and you know the lengths I will take to lose weight. I know the lakewoods are heavy but there are a few other options out there that are lighter. You should be able to get a decent penny for the mag. I would sell it.

[Flash68]

Ok you've all convinced me. Not that I had a strong opinion either way.

No magnesium. I'll find a Quicktime or something. :thumbsup:

Now, should I delete this thread? :lol:

[Sieg]

Now, should I delete this thread? :lol:
No, this is one fiction novel I actually enjoy.

Carry on. :D

[fleetus macmullitz]

Now, should I delete this thread? :lol:

You heard that too, huh? :unibrow:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/wnyjazz/340x-1p.jpg

[badmatt]

when my mag bellhousing burns down... nice knowing you guys! or when I lose my legs.. ill let you know.

id still rather loose my legs then drive a car with a bell housing as heavy as a Torino...

Matt'

[TheJDMan]

Have you guys ever seen this picture of Don Garlits clutch explosion? It litterally cut the car in half and took off part of Big Daddy's foot in the process. For me running an SFI rated bell housing is a no brainer.

http://www.dragsterworld.com/images/photogallery/garlits.jpg

[Flash68]

Like my SB2 brother Matt, I will be running the magnesium bell. 2 reasons.

Lakewood/Quicktime doesn't even make a steel bell for my application they said.

Tilton's 7.25" triple disc is designed so everything stays contained in the input shaft upon failure, and they don't explode anyway. This is the second time a Tilton rep has asked me "do you really think the highest levels of Nascar racing would allow this setup to be used if they were exploding?"

I didn't have a good answer.

If it's good enough for 10,000 rpm and Nascar, it must be good enough for my 7,000 rpm and wanna be Nascar.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^ besides that.... You know a good personal injury lawyer!


:rofl:

[badmatt]

Plus the mag bell is smaller giving you greater clearance...

Tilton told me the same thing as what Dave listed.

[Flash68]

^^^^^^^^^^ besides that.... You know a good personal injury lawyer!


:rofl:

Yes I do know one. But is she any good? :D

Plus the mag bell is smaller giving you greater clearance...

Tilton told me the same thing as what Dave listed.

Clearance - another good thing, yes.

I have been stewing on this deal for awhile. Glad I finally feel good about it and can move on to other stuff. :lateral:

[Vegas69]

OK Dick Trickle. :D

[Flash68]

Speaking of Nascar....

For those remotely interested in Nascar based builds, here are 2 PHR articles that have inspired me and informed me along my way.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1207phr_hinkle_performance_nascar_sourced_chevy_mo tor/viewall.html

And the evil twin sister (being a Ford makes it my sister) to my SB2.2 -- found in PHR's Project "Max Effort". Nearly identical (minus the water/meth injection) it is within 1 cubic inch and 5-10 horsepower of mine with a nearly identical powerband as well.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1110phr_project_max_effort_438ci_ford_motor_build/viewall.html

[badmatt]

Hey Dave,

So what clasification do I fall under? Nastruck? or RACETRUCK.

[FETorino]

Hey Dave,

So what clasification do I fall under? Nastruck? or RACETRUCK.

BadMatt

[badmatt]

BadMatt

*facepalm*


oh well that works too.

[Flash68]

Hey Dave,

So what clasification do I fall under? Nastruck? or RACETRUCK.

How about just NASTY.

Are you running a Tilton triple 7.25 too?

[badmatt]

How about just NASTY.

Are you running a Tilton triple 7.25 too?

Yup! Sintered Steel. Bring on the chatter! i may invest in a set of cerametallics.

[Flash68]

Yup! Sintered Steel. Bring on the chatter! i may invest in a set of cerametallics.

:thumbsup: I don't have a radio so I love all the noise these parts make. :unibrow:

[badmatt]

Dave I've got a spare set of .100" 26 spline steel's if you want em?

unless the baby stuff is getting out of hand....

Matt

[Flash68]

Dave I've got a spare set of .100" 26 spline steel's if you want em?

unless the baby stuff is getting out of hand....

Matt

Ha. Let me verify what I have first. Thanks for the offer.