Tru Trac or Wavetrac

[FETorino]

Anyone out there have experience with both of these differentials. At some point I will need to build a new third member for my car. I have narrowed the choice between these two.

It will be going in a speedway engineering full floater housing.

I think the Tru Trac can fill the bill as a good dependable street/opentrack/autocross diff.

[badmatt]

another good one is stranges S-trac seams to work well into the low 9's :)

[Vegas69]

I've been really happy with my Tru Trac.

[out2kayak]

For what it's worth, I flipped coin on the Wavetrac in a Ford 9" 35 spline format (from Moser).

I have not had my vehicle rolling yet, but after a ton of research and talking with Moser, it sounded like it would work in a twin turbo LSX environment.

:cheers:

[Rod P]

go with the tru trac I drive the hell outta mine works great!! as a daily driver car and at the track

heres my car at RTTC

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx162/crazyshopmonkey/RTTC%203/424061_10150743374310820_134737255819_11372622_896 796888_n.jpg

[FETorino]

go with the tru trac I drive the hell outta mine works great!! as a daily driver car and at the track

heres may car at RTTC

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx162/crazyshopmonkey/RTTC%203/424061_10150743374310820_134737255819_11372622_896 796888_n.jpg

That is motivating......... :hail: Sweet car.:thumbsup:

[Andrew]

I'll start off by saying I don't presently own either but will be purchasing one soon and that will definitely be a wavetrac.

I've spent hours reading about them both and watching videos and the wavetrac is the superior unit in my mind. More options, it's customizable to your preference, a proven lifetime warranty when a couple of the 1st gen designs were being broken, and it continues to operate in low to no traction events.

They are both good carriers but imo the wavetrac is superior and stronger then a comparable true-trac, which I believe in a 9" is rated for 600hp(?) and the second gen wavetracs being rated for 1000hp+.
CIFUWTmZtMU

TktKkmLZAPM

[Andrew]

at the risk of sounding like a wavetrac rep here is some additional info,


The Wavetrac® differential uses a patent pending design to improve grip in low traction conditions. Precisely engineered, converging / diverging wave profiles are placed on one side gear and its mating preload hub. As the two side gears rotate relative to each other, each wave surface climbs the other, causing them to move apart. This imparts an increased normal force through the side gears, increasing the bias ratio as a function of load. This increase occurs automatically only when conditions find it necessary, and it 'reverts' back to its nominal bias ratio quickly and seamlessly, maintaining optimal drivability and performance at all times. It's like having two differentials in one: you get the benefit of a higher bias ratio when needed without detriment to the car's handling. Interchangeable Friction Plates Provide Controlled Bias.

Here's something else you won't find in any other design:
The Wavetrac® diff's behavior can be altered in the field to suit your needs. It comes standard with carbon-fiber bias plates for the best all around performance. Interchangeable plates using materials with different friction coefficients to fine-tune the bias ratio are sold separately.
These friction plates provide a mechanism to tune the response of the differential as a function of applied torque load. The applied torque load manifests itself as an axial load from the differential pinions into the housing. This axial force is then considered a normal force into the friction plate, and as a function of the effective coefficient of friction, will provide a resistive torque to the rotational motion of the differential pinions. The resistive torque will add to the resistance of relative rotation of all components within the differential. The resistive force, however, is non-uniform since it is a function of the axial load from the differential pinions. The unbalance of the resistive torque will manifest as non-uniform energy absorption within the differential causing a bias ratio.

Designed from a clean sheet, the new Wavetrac® Differential brings current gear technology to the market. Internally, its gear tooth forms are optimized for strength and improved oil film retention over competitive designs. Our gear package is smaller, reducing overall mass, yet is more durable. Attention was also paid to the side gear/axle interface, putting as much material thickness as possible in this critical area - most important when power levels get high.

Each Wavetrac® Differential is crafted from the highest quality materials available. The internal gears are made from high strength 9310 alloy steel. The diff bodies are machined from case hardened steel billet. To complete the package, every Wavetrac® differential is built exclusively using high quality, high strength fasteners from ARP®, the world leader in fastener technology.

THE WAVETRAC® AT A GLANCE:

• Innovative:
Patent pending Wavetrac® design automatically improves grip in low traction conditions. This feature is truly innovative and unlike any other torque biasing diff design.
• Superior Materials:
9310 steel gears run in case-hardened billet steel bodies. ARP® fasteners used throughout.
• Maintenance Free:
As supplied new, the Wavetrac® differential will perform a lifetime of service without maintenance or rebuilds.
• Customizable:
If desired, you can alter the diff’s behavior to suit your needs using optional components.
• Limited LIFETIME Warranty:
All Wavetrac® differentials include a transferable, Limited Lifetime Warranty.

WHAT MAKES A WAVETRAC® DIFFERENT
To best understand how the Wavetrac® is truly different from the other gear differentials on the market, you first have to understand the primary problem that the Wavetrac® solves.
The problem: Loss of drive during zero or near-zero axle-load conditions.
Zero axle-load is a condition that occurs during normal driving, but creates the most noticeable problems when driving in extreme conditions. Zero or near-zero axle-load is the condition that exists when there is ‘no-load’ applied through the drivetrain, when one drive wheel is nearly or completely lifted (often in aggressive cornering). It also occurs during the transition from engine driving a vehicle to engine braking and back, even with both drive wheels firmly on the ground.

Here’s how that loss of drive hurts you:
1) If you lift a wheel, all gear diffs except Wavetrac®, will NOT power the other wheel.
2) During the transition from accel to decel, all gear diffs except Wavetrac®, do nothing.

Why does this happen?
All gear LSDs (including Torsen®, Truetrac®, Quaife®, Peloquin, OBX, etc.) work in basically the same manner: they divide the drive torque between the two axles, applying drive to each side, up to the available grip of each tire. The amount of drive torque one wheel can get over the other is described as the bias ratio, a measure of the torque split across the axle.
Standard, open differentials have a bias ratio of 1:1. They can only apply as much drive torque as there is available traction at one wheel. When one wheel loses grip, the total available drive is lost as well (at a 1:1 ratio). All your power goes out the slipping wheel - along the path of least resistance.
Torque biasing differentials offer increased bias ratios over open differentials. For example, if a diff has a bias ratio of 2.5:1, then it can apply drive torque to the wheel with the most traction (gripping wheel) at 2.5 times the traction limit of the wheel with the least traction (slipping wheel). This is a significant improvement over an open diff… most of the time.
The problem is that when one tire has LITTLE or NO grip (zero axle-load), the other wheel gets ZERO DRIVE, because (basic math here): 2.5 x 0 = 0.
Lift a wheel (or substantially unload a wheel) and you get zero axle-load on that side - that means that during the time the wheel is unloaded, the typical diff will NOT power the wheel that’s still on the ground. No matter how high the bias ratio, you get no power to the ground.
During the transition from accel to decel, where you have near zero torque on the axle, even if the wheels are on the ground, the typical diff is unable to begin applying drive torque until AFTER the zero torque condition is over. While this condition is generally short-lived, the fact that most diffs can do nothing during that time means that there will be a delay once the zero torque condition stops - creating a reaction time in the driveline.

The Wavetrac®, however, is different:
The innovative, patent-pending, Wavetrac® device in the center of the diff responds during these exact conditions when zero or near-zero axle-load occurs. At or near zero axle-load, the axles (and therefore each side gear in the diff) start to turn at different speeds.
This speed differential causes the Wavetrac® device to step into action:
Precisely engineered wave profiles are placed on one side gear and its mating preload hub. As the two side gears rotate relative to each other, each wave surface climbs the other, causing them to move apart.
Very quickly, this creates enough internal load within the Wavetrac® to STOP the zero axle-load condition.
The zero axle-load condition is halted, and the drive torque is applied to the wheel on the ground (the gripping wheel)… keeping the power down.
Some gear differentials rely solely on preload springs to combat loss of drive. The drawback is that you can’t add enough preload to prevent loss of drive without creating tremendous handling and wear problems at the same time. So, to avoid these problems, the preload from ordinary spring packs must be reduced to a level that renders them ineffective at preventing loss of drive. The Wavetrac® is the only differential that can automatically add more load internally when it’s required.
In the case where both wheels are on the ground during zero axle load, such as during a transition to deceleration, the Wavetrac® device is able to prepare the drivetrain for when the zero torque condition stops, eliminating the delay seen with ordinary gear diffs.
What this means for you as a driver is that power is delivered to the gripping wheels for more time and in a more constant manner – making you faster and improving stability.
The Wavetrac® truly is different - and its innovative features can make a real difference in your car’s performance.

Here’s something else you won’t find in any other design:
The Wavetrac® diff’s behavior can be altered in the field to suit your needs. It comes standard with carbon-fiber bias plates for the best all around performance and lifetime durability. Changeable plates using materials with different friction coefficients to fine-tune the bias ratio are sold separately.
These bias plates provide a mechanism to tune the response of the differential as a function of applied torque load. The applied torque load manifests itself as an axial load from the differential pinions into the housing. This axial force is then considered a normal force into the bias plate, and as a function of the effective coefficient of friction, provide a resistive torque to the rotational motion of the differential pinions. The resistive torque will add to the resistance of relative rotation of all components within the differential. The resistive force, however, is non-uniform since it is a function of the axial load from the differential pinions. The unbalance of the resistive torque will manifest as non-uniform energy absorption within the differential causing a bias ratio.

[BBC71Nova]

If you are considering a Wavetrac I'd also take a look at the Strange S-trac. Very nice piece.

That said, unless you plan on hitting the strip with sticky tires or have over 600hp, the Tru-trac seems like a solid and proven performer for few hundred dollars less.

[hotrod69camaro]

Im very happy with the Tru-trac thats in my car.

[Bryce]

The wave track still has a torque bias. If one tire is spinning the other tire will get 3 times the torque applied to the slipping tire assuming it setup to 3:1. THE one advantage of the wavetrack is when one tire gets zero applied torque then the other gets 100%.

I personally love my detroit locker. FYI, circle track lockers are unique and not a good comparison to an off the shelf locker from eaton.

[Vegas69]

Off roaders give the true trac good reviews and they are getting into much higher differences in traction from axle to axle. I just don't see a situation where a truetrac isn't sufficient in a pro touring car.

I would need to check but my 33 spline truetrac is rated at 700 or 800 hp.

[FETorino]

Off roaders give the true trac good reviews and they are getting into much higher differences in traction from axle to axle. I just don't see a situation where a truetrac isn't sufficient in a pro touring car.

I would need to check but my 33 spline truetrac is rated at 700 or 800 hp.

I actually run one in my wife's 75 Bronco. If a wheel comes off the ground you tap the brakes and it acts like a locker.

It sounds like the extra money for a wavetrac would be better spent on shift upgrades for my T56.

[Vegas69]

Do your own due diligence but it's been rock solid in my car and we have similar power.

[FETorino]

Do your own due diligence but it's been rock solid in my car and we have similar power.

Thanks. I have had good luck with the unit in a Bronco I just wanted to see if it was holding up in this environment. I appreciate the hands on advice.:thumbsup:

I wont tell any of the BBC guys you said that we hae similar power if you don't tell any of the FE crowd I agree.:rofl:

[6D9 Matt]

Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

[Ron in SoCal]

Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

I'm curious as to the additional parasitic drag and if that's even an issue at any HP level w those big axles? I'm all for overbuilding the drivetrain and love the warranty though, just want to look at all the angles. :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

What makes you think a Tru Trac with 31 spline axles wouldn't get it done right the first time. I'm not saying you're making the wrong decision, just don't want people to feel they need to steer clear of 31 spline axles or Tru Tracs. Hell, I think I put the most stress on my car back when it had 400 at the wheels. In my opinion, none of our cars can launch hard enough, or run sticky enough tires to worry about that part of the drive train. With my car making mid 500s at the wheels, I'm really not concerned about breaking these parts in question. I haven't shied away from running my car hard, and plan on running it harder in the future. Who knows, maybe I will eat my words. That would suck though, I'm really tired of replacing parts already. :lol:

Matt

[6D9 Matt]

Well I will say, I plan on putting down 700+ on the dyno down the road, and might throw some slicks on the car as well when I get serious about running some times (not anytime soon with the little crate 350 I have now).

Many people I have seen/talked to do great wit the truetrac... great unit! Im just building it up a little extra the first time and spending the money now, rather than MAYBE later (after I either break it, or want to upgrade again). :thumbsup:

[sik68]

What makes you think a Tru Trac with 31 spline axles wouldn't get it done right the first time. I'm not saying you're making the wrong decision, just don't want people to feel they need to steer clear of 31 spline axles or Tru Tracs. Hell, I think I put the most stress on my car back when it had 400 at the wheels. In my opinion, none of our cars can launch hard enough, or run sticky enough tires to worry about that part of the drive train. With my car making mid 500s at the wheels, I'm really not concerned about breaking these parts in question. I haven't shied away from running my car hard, and plan on running it harder in the future. Who knows, maybe I will eat my words. That would suck though, I'm really tired of replacing parts already. :lol:

Matt

:yes: I didn't see any Vin Diesel launches at RTTC. Maybe 200tw is to prevent wheelies!

Road courses, where you're maybe only in 3rd or 4th gear, you aren't putting serious torque multiplication through the rearend compared to a 1st gear drag launch. You can save some weight & inertia by opting for a smaller spline count.

[FETorino]

Well as I mentioned I am going with a speedway full floater which they normally spec with 31 spine inner count.

[Ron in SoCal]

Well as I mentioned I am going with a speedway full floater which they normally spec with 31 spine inner count.

Better update you sig line then...:D

Which floater did you choose, the GN? I was down there a couple of weeks ago and they have lots of options, even 35 spline...:thumbsup:

[Bryce]

What makes you think a Tru Trac with 31 spline axles wouldn't get it done right the first time. I'm not saying you're making the wrong decision, just don't want people to feel they need to steer clear of 31 spline axles or Tru Tracs. Hell, I think I put the most stress on my car back when it had 400 at the wheels. In my opinion, none of our cars can launch hard enough, or run sticky enough tires to worry about that part of the drive train. With my car making mid 500s at the wheels, I'm really not concerned about breaking these parts in question. I haven't shied away from running my car hard, and plan on running it harder in the future. Who knows, maybe I will eat my words. That would suck though, I'm really tired of replacing parts already. :lol:

Matt

I launch my drag mustang at 6200rpm with the wheels up on 11" slicks with 31 spline mose axles. No issues.

[FETorino]

Better update you sig line then...:D

Which floater did you choose, the GN? I was down there a couple of weeks ago and they have lots of options, even 35 spline...:thumbsup:

Yea when the chassis get a little farther along and I've gone all in on some of the decisions I'll put a detailed list on my build thread.

I have a couple cars with 31 spline 9 inch rears so the idea of sticking with 31 spline and being able to try out a couple of my gear combos before building the final product appeals to me.

I'm not going to be doing any 5000rpm clutch dumps with slicks so I don't know if 35 spline is necessary. Ken at Speedway was steering me to the Mod Lite. I need to talk to Phil next week about which housing they usually use in their builds. I like the idea of less unsprung weight of the ModLite vs the GN.

[John510]

Im going with a Moser 9" with 35-spline wavetrac (vs a 31-spline truetrac). Gonna get it done right the first time and not have to worry. Plus the lifetime warranty is nice.

:unibrow:

Your T56 would snap before you broke a trutrac and axle.

33 would be fine if you want the extra safety. Just trying to save you some $$$

[Ron in SoCal]

Yea when the chassis get a little farther along and I've gone all in on some of the decisions I'll put a detailed list on my build thread.

I have a couple cars with 31 spline 9 inch rears so the idea of sticking with 31 spline and being able to try out a couple of my gear combos before building the final product appeals to me.

I'm not going to be doing any 5000rpm clutch dumps with slicks so I don't know if 35 spline is necessary. Ken at Speedway was steering me to the Mod Lite. I need to talk to Phil next week about which housing they usually use in their builds. I like the idea of less unsprung weight of the ModLite vs the GN.

Yeah I hear you, those things are heavy! I spoke to Frank @ Speedway...very knowledgable guy. I could be wrong, but I think the ModLte was 26 spline at the axle end?

[Vegas69]

If you guys figure out a way to launch a pro touring car well enough to break a 31 spline axle or true trac, please clue me in because I want to join you.

The best 60 foot times I've seen on a pro touring car is in the mid 1.7 second range and that was bad penny on drag radials. Hell it might have been 1.8's. That's pitiful in the drag world.

[Matt@BOS]

If you guys figure out a way to launch a pro touring car well enough to break a 31 spline axle or true trac, please clue me in because I want to join you.

The best 60 foot times I've seen on a pro touring car is in the mid 1.7 second range and that was bad penny on drag radials. Hell it might have been 1.8's. That's pitiful in the drag world.

... Don't forget, Steve did that by using a special torque management device called a clutch. :lol: I just remember that image of his car launching pouring smoke from under the car, instead of behind it. Still, I'd say a burnt up clutch was worth the Wally he won.

Anyway, Steve said he is going to be getting Penny ready for a little drag strip action. One of the cool things about the Lateral Dynamics three link is that the upper control arm has a few different mounting settings so he can get more anti-squat out of it than he had when running at Fontana last year when he set those times.

Matt

[Vegas69]

I wouldn't borrow that guy a rock and 2x4. He'd bring them back broke.:lol:

[Vegas69]

I called into Moser this morning and they are saying that a 33 spline 12 bolt is rated at 600-650hp for a high rpm launch. The axles are rated higher but the carrier is the weak link. With a spool it will go 800hp. He noted that non of the posi carriers are made for high rpm drag launches. Unless you can launch at high rpm on a drag strip, it's not a variable. So, 35 spline axles are overkill.

[FETorino]

Something has to break first. I think I'll run a 1310 u joint as a warning light:rofl:

[Vegas69]

I plan on heading back out to the strip later this year. Hoping to get this thing to hook better so I'll likely take it to the limit for pro touring. If it breaks, I'll be proud.:rolleyes:

[6D9 Matt]

Your T56 would snap before you broke a trutrac and axle.

33 would be fine if you want the extra safety. Just trying to save you some $$$

It has a T56 magnum in it right now... but hey, never know. :D

Also from what I remember, Moser didnt have 33-spline in the 9" rear application. Im not saying its not overkill, I just dont want to have to worry.

Everyones opinion is going to be different about it, hence why they are opinions. But I have talked to a few people around here that have broke 31-spline True Trac applications, and a lot less with the 9". So said screw it and the beefed up 9" is my route... :thumbsup:

[Greg from Aus]

Well I like over overkill, so Ive got the 35 Wave Track and a Rockland T56 Magnum Tranzilla, so hopefully I will be just fine. :lol: :_paranoid

Greg

[FETorino]

Well I like over overkill, so Ive got the 35 Wave Track and a Rockland T56 Magnum Tranzilla, so hopefully I will be just fine. :lol: :_paranoid

Greg

Have you had the wavetrac on the track? When I started the thread I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone running each piece. A few guys with Trutacs on the road courses have chimed in. What about the wavetrac any roadrace or autocross time on it?

[Greg from Aus]

Have you had the wavetrac on the track? When I started the thread I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone running each piece. A few guys with Trutacs on the road courses have chimed in. What about the wavetrac any roadrace or autocross time on it?

No sorry mine is still in build.

Greg

[6D9 Matt]

Well I like over overkill, so Ive got the 35 Wave Track and a Rockland T56 Magnum Tranzilla, so hopefully I will be just fine. :lol: :_paranoid

Greg

VERY nice! :cheers:

[66SuperSport]

Have the 31 spline set up in my car and fragged a TruTrac diff. last year at a GoodGuys autocross. Put in a Wave and the car now seems to rotate much better on tight slow speed corners. Awesome warranty too.

[Vegas69]

Good info Chris. Did you change anything else at the same time?

[66SuperSport]

No other changes. The gear was fine so it was just reinstalled too.
The car seemed to want to push a little, but when we switched the diff. that completely went away. It's possible the TruTrac was messed up and that it was not releasing properly causing the push too. Maybe that's why it popped. It's much better now though.

[FETorino]

Thanks for the input Chris. The back to back comparison makes a compelling argument for he wavetrac. the 31 spline is on sale at Moser right now :D

[Flash68]

So what's it gonna be ... Wave or True Trac?

I am at this point now.

[FETorino]

So what's it gonna be ... Wave or True Trac?

I am at this point now.

I am waiting to see what you buy and get the opposite:lmao:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

So what's it gonna be ... Wave or True Trac?

I am at this point now.

I'd go wave trac just because it has a great warranty.

[intocarss]

I am waiting to see what you buy and get the opposite:lmao:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :bitchslap:

[Bryce]

I still love my Detoit locker.

[Flash68]

I'd go wave trac just because it has a great warranty.

So does the Quaife LSD and I think it's actually a little cheaper. Never realized til last night they are available for a Ford 9.

I still love my Detoit locker.

I would probably do this if it was an autoX car but I am a little concerned about them on a high speed road course.

[chr2002ca]

I went with the 33-spline Tru Trac. WaveTrac's have got their own issues also. Do your research and you'll see. Hasn't BlueBalz been through 2 of them already? Doesn't really matter what you buy, plan on replacing it eventually if you're racing. Nothing streetable is going to hold up long-term with the forces these cars are now placing on them with the big HP numbers and wide+sticky tires.

[Cris@JCG]

I have broke one WaveTrac... Sent it back never got an answer on why.. I moved on.. Ran Tru Trac... Still lighting up my inside tire.. OS Giken.. did work either...

I finally found one that work for Blu Balz! But if I tell you guys ... you will never believe me... I chased the probelm for months... :bang:



I went with the 33-spline Tru Trac. WaveTrac's have got their own issues also. Do your research and you'll see. Hasn't BlueBalz been through 2 of them already? Doesn't really matter what you buy, plan on replacing it eventually if you're racing. Nothing streetable is going to hold up long-term with the forces these cars are now placing on them with the big HP numbers and wide+sticky tires.

[John510]

I ordered a 31 spline true trac since that is what was recommended to me. Cant remember what brand it was. Came in a blue plastic box. Currie maybe?

[Bryce]

I would probably do this if it was an autoX car but I am a little concerned about them on a high speed road course.

I think they would be better on larger radius turns than tight autocrosses. Less tire speed differential between inside and outside tires.

[carbuff]

I have broke one WaveTrac... Sent it back never got an answer on why.. I moved on.. Ran Tru Trac... Still lighting up my inside tire.. OS Giken.. did work either...

I finally found one that work for Blu Balz! But if I tell you guys ... you will never believe me... I chased the probelm for months... :bang:

Cris,

I don't suppose it would be related to the following post from May of last year on Blu Balz, would it? :) I was looking for some followup info at the time, anything you care to share?

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=421367&postcount=1035

The one thing that we have not been able to keep from losing in the car was ring & pinions.. Discussed this with Kyle @ DSE & this is what we came up with as a solution… Heat has been our enemy.. but @ the time upgrade to something that is more for racing purposes…

C&R Racing has introduced current NASCAR Ford 9” technology for the Pro-Touring and Track Day customers. Starting with an investment cast nodular housing that is almost 8 pounds lighter than a standard case. Ring & Pinions are ISF® Process (Isotropic Superfinish Process) by REM Chemicals for reductions in friction, heat build up , power loss, noise and increases longevity. C&R also utilizes our in house 9” Dyno which measures heat, hot & cold rolling torque , final backlash and is checked for noise. It also allows us to ship 9” already broken-in so it is ready to run when you receive it.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/jcgrestoration/IMG_2521.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/jcgrestoration/IMG_2522.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/jcgrestoration/IMG_2523.jpg

[Flash68]

^^ That C&R piece is top of the line but very very spendy. You could get 3 or 4 True Tracs for the price of one of those, but I guess if ya keep breaking True Tracs, etc....

I am waiting to see what you buy and get the opposite:lmao:

Is this George Costanza "Do The Opposite" Day for you?

I'd go wave trac just because it has a great warranty.

So does the Quaife. And I agree with Chris's research below as well. That thing has its own issues too.

I went with the 33-spline Tru Trac. WaveTrac's have got their own issues also. Do your research and you'll see. Hasn't BlueBalz been through 2 of them already? Doesn't really matter what you buy, plan on replacing it eventually if you're racing. Nothing streetable is going to hold up long-term with the forces these cars are now placing on them with the big HP numbers and wide+sticky tires.

That's one thing I like about the Quaife (and it's a couple hundred cheaper than the Wave Trac) is if it does break, there are great reports of their warranty.

I think they would be better on larger radius turns than tight autocrosses. Less tire speed differential between inside and outside tires.

I keep seeing reports of more people liking it for autocross vs the the road course. I guess I'll never know until I try it.

Right now I gotta say I am leaning toward tryin the Quaife.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I have broke one WaveTrac... Sent it back never got an answer on why.. I moved on.. Ran Tru Trac... Still lighting up my inside tire.. OS Giken.. did work either...

I finally found one that work for Blu Balz! But if I tell you guys ... you will never believe me... I chased the probelm for months... :bang:

Thats right, I remember hearing this but never asked you what the failure was....Cris, what did you find when you pulled the drop out? Burnt/low fluid or normal fluid and metal?
thanks

[Vince@Meanstreets]

So does the Quaife LSD and I think it's actually a little cheaper. Never realized til last night they are available for a Ford 9.



I would probably do this if it was an autoX car but I am a little concerned about them on a high speed road course.

My wife works for Porsche and I know how much a pain it can be with parts from across the pond.

S track and Tru track are pretty much the same design no?

[dontlifttoshift]

My wife works for Porsche and I know how much a pain it can be with parts from across the pond.

S track and Tru track are pretty much the same design no?

The S track is much stronger than a trutrac due to extra helical gears, and I believe a bit stronger than a wavetrac. We have been running an strack in a camaro and have been happy with it, from track day to autocross it has been smooth and predictable.

We are going to put 600 HP to it this year and try and break it.

Cris, really? "we exploded everything, but I'm not telling you how we fixed it"

[Cris@JCG]

I will draft up something today with explanations of my issues with the rear diff problems I had with Blu today..

Donny- I never implied that " We Exploded everything".. We just broke something.. But this comes with the territory of racing!


The S track is much stronger than a trutrac due to extra helical gears, and I believe a bit stronger than a wavetrac. We have been running an strack in a camaro and have been happy with it, from track day to autocross it has been smooth and predictable.

We are going to put 600 HP to it this year and try and break it.

Cris, really? "we exploded everything, but I'm not telling you how we fixed it"

[dontlifttoshift]

Yeah, I added the "exploded", it sounds cooler:lol:

Really looking forward to your input. You have got a lot of time on Blu and that experience can save people some time and headaches in the long run.:thankyou:

[Flash68]

My wife works for Porsche and I know how much a pain it can be with parts from across the pond.



Not sure what parts you are referring to, but I broke and upgraded tons of things on my P-car during the 2 years I owned and daily drove it. Never had issues getting any kind of parts for it - OEM or aftermarket.

[Cris@JCG]

I currently made a statement on a thread of Wave Trac vs. Tru Trac & stated that we broke a WaveTrac.. I usually keep away from making statements like this because I do not want to get involved in issues we have with aftermarket products.. Basically we find solutions to problems & move on & learn from our experiences.. So people would like for us to share that knowledge.. but I just don’t want to get involved in opinions on which product is good & which bad .. Because in reality everybody has a different opinion.. I try to keep my opinions to myself.. I consult privately with some of the people here on the board & manufactures.. I keep that information between us.. & when somebody calls me & wants to discuss their problems I try to help as much as I can with the knowledge I have acquired..

So.. Here we go! When Blu Balz was first shown @ SEMA it had a very low ride height & I was determined to keep it there! But the first think that Mary Pozzi said when she jumped in the seat of the car.. YOU are going to have to raise it! I kept quiet said to myself “HELL NO” but I had to budge.. The DSE suspension is designed to work @ a certain ride height.. I had to raise the car!

I will break it down on how we started & where we are now…

Moser 3rd member with Tru-Trac 31 spline & Gear Motive gears bought from DSE
Here is where I was losing gears & started experiencing piston knock back, Rebuilt with Richmond gears but still howled, oil would come out with metal shaving(tiny), tore down rear end & noticed that on one side of the axle the seal was being eaten up, Moser axle back up ring to retain bearing was not set right, Raised car & still on DSE stock suspension for rear, No issues with Tru Trac. Never contacted DSE & dealt with issues myself because was always in hurry to get the car back on the track plus in order to do any warranty I would have to remove 3rd member & send it back for evaluation.. Car sitting for 3 to 4 weeks was not acceptable.. Only time Tru Trac would light up inside tire was when the Sway bars were disconnected to get the car to rotate on tight Auto-X

Strange 3rd member with Wave Trac 35 spline, Aluminum Case & Motive gear bought from The GMR
Due to piston knock back on rear caliper.. decision to upgrade to a floater, Contacted GMR & upgraded to listed items above, Jason & Jay took care of this conversion in two weeks for me, helped with the install & even were with me on test drives for break in process of gears… few days later ring & pinion started howling, contacted Jay @ GMR.. Basically had to remove the unit send it back to them so that they could send it back to Strange.. I could not tear it apart due to warranty ..Did not like that.. I tore it apart changed gears.. this time with US Gears.. broke the gears in & all was good.. Went to a event.. Auto-X good but then got on the road course & gears started howling.. At this time we had re-valve the shock & were running 850 springs in the front with 600 on the rears.. Wave Trac was working good.. Car was really high on the rear.. That is what it took to get rear suspension to work good.. Had issues with gears plus other things were happening with car.. Brought car back to CA

C&R 3rd member with Wave Trac 35 spline & Motive gear with REM process, gear driven oil pump for cooler, Setrab cooler
Got the car back & contacted Kyle @ DSE.. Told him all the issues.. he told me about the new 3rd member they were using on the Mustang & researched what the C&R units were all about.. Ordered one! When we pulled the whole rear out to rebuild & clean we made the decision to change the location of the pannard bar.. We wanted a lower roll center plus wanted the car to set lower… Got all modification done .. Took the car out to for a test & tune.. on the first couple of passes all was good then we heard A loud noise.. Something broke on the rear.. We would launch the car in a straight line.. only one tire was gripping… took the car back the shop Made a phone call to Karl.. We were suppose to leave to Motorstate & deliver the car.. Karl wanted to go racing.. Called DSE.. I would have to remove 3rd member & send it back for warranty.. Again no time for that.. Kyle was very apologetic & so was C&R.. I said no problem.. Stuff happens.. but I need to do something here pretty quick… The Wave Trac broke.. I never followed up on why it broke.. DSE warranted it.. sitting on the shelf but it has a place for another car we are building.. I had them take out the Wave Trac & put a Tru Trac in it…


Strange 3rd member with OS Giken unit, C&R Motive gear with REM process, external oil pump(This is the Strange unit I bought from The GMR)
This unit was working great when we left for Motorstate but still felt we might be spinning up the inside tire..What happen here was that when we changed the rear roll center & front sway bar.. The car starting getting great corner bite on the Auto-X & finally got the car to rotate on tight turns but with one change it impacts another.. Mike Maier’s kept just telling me .. “PUT A LOCKER ON IT”.. Karl did not want all the clanking noise of a locker… But one good thing came out of it.. We stopped losing ring & pinion! The REM gears & oil cooler cured that problem.. I keep those gear in stock now! But now we had the issue of spinning the inside tire… Karl was driving the car @ Motorstate & it was a uncomfortable feeling because it would pitch the car to one side.. lose traction & the RPM would shoot up.. Karl managed to finish the event.. but we the car was still not right.. So the car came back to CA… Back in CA we kept playing with the suspension settings & OS Giken unit.. Got it close to working but Casey came up with a idea.. Since we had a bunch of Unit sitting around.. lets test something.. I had a Traction Lok on the shelf!


Moser 3rd member housing rebuilt with Traction Lok re-worked by JCG, C&R Motive gear with REM process, external oil cooler pump
This is where we are now.. This set up has worked great for us on the Auto-X & road course.. Karl drove the car @ RTTC last Oct. & the outcome was great for him & me .. Finally found a combination that works in all aspects for the car.. Requires maintance.. we have to constantly check break away on the clutches in the unit but small price to pay for performance we were seeking… What we did to the Trac Lok? Well that is a old trick Auto Crossers have done for long time.. Casey was the one who came up with the idea..

Conclusion- I lay no blame on any vendor.. I am very impatient when it comes to issues on components.. I want quick results & if I need to take matter into my hands.. I will do so! My methods of doing things might not appeal to all but assume responsibility when I take matter into my own hands..

If I had to do it all over again.. I would be using a 12 bolt Chevy or Mustang 8.8 .. They have great clutch type posi unit systems.. Very tunable! This is only my opinion..

Also .. We are racing! Stuff breaks..

[JasonElvisHeard]

Cris,

The third member you got from Jays black car was Moser, not Strange. The Strange unit is an S-trac. Moser is who sells the wavetrack.

On a side note, there is a 35 spline tru-trac available now but im excited to see what you have done and hopefully will have available in the future.

Jason

[Vegas69]

Beat the ever living snot out of a Moser 12 bolt 33 spline true trac with not a single problem. Around 30 events and 7k street miles. Ran plain old valvoline dino oil with no oil cooler. :D Loved it...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I currently made a statement on a thread of Wave Trac vs. Tru Trac & stated that we broke a WaveTrac.. I usually keep away from making statements like this because I do not want to get involved in issues we have with aftermarket products.. Basically we find solutions to problems & move on & learn from our experiences.. So people would like for us to share that knowledge.. but I just don’t want to get involved in opinions on which product is good & which bad .. Because in reality everybody has a different opinion.. I try to keep my opinions to myself.. I consult privately with some of the people here on the board & manufactures.. I keep that information between us.. & when somebody calls me & wants to discuss their problems I try to help as much as I can with the knowledge I have acquired..

So.. Here we go! When Blu Balz was first shown @ SEMA it had a very low ride height & I was determined to keep it there! But the first think that Mary Pozzi said when she jumped in the seat of the car.. YOU are going to have to raise it! I kept quiet said to myself “HELL NO” but I had to budge.. The DSE suspension is designed to work @ a certain ride height.. I had to raise the car!

I will break it down on how we started & where we are now…

Moser 3rd member with Tru-Trac 31 spline & Gear Motive gears bought from DSE
Here is where I was losing gears & started experiencing piston knock back, Rebuilt with Richmond gears but still howled, oil would come out with metal shaving(tiny), tore down rear end & noticed that on one side of the axle the seal was being eaten up, Moser axle back up ring to retain bearing was not set right, Raised car & still on DSE stock suspension for rear, No issues with Tru Trac. Never contacted DSE & dealt with issues myself because was always in hurry to get the car back on the track plus in order to do any warranty I would have to remove 3rd member & send it back for evaluation.. Car sitting for 3 to 4 weeks was not acceptable.. Only time Tru Trac would light up inside tire was when the Sway bars were disconnected to get the car to rotate on tight Auto-X

Strange 3rd member with Wave Trac 35 spline, Aluminum Case & Motive gear bought from The GMR
Due to piston knock back on rear caliper.. decision to upgrade to a floater, Contacted GMR & upgraded to listed items above, Jason & Jay took care of this conversion in two weeks for me, helped with the install & even were with me on test drives for break in process of gears… few days later ring & pinion started howling, contacted Jay @ GMR.. Basically had to remove the unit send it back to them so that they could send it back to Strange.. I could not tear it apart due to warranty ..Did not like that.. I tore it apart changed gears.. this time with US Gears.. broke the gears in & all was good.. Went to a event.. Auto-X good but then got on the road course & gears started howling.. At this time we had re-valve the shock & were running 850 springs in the front with 600 on the rears.. Wave Trac was working good.. Car was really high on the rear.. That is what it took to get rear suspension to work good.. Had issues with gears plus other things were happening with car.. Brought car back to CA

C&R 3rd member with Wave Trac 35 spline & Motive gear with REM process, gear driven oil pump for cooler, Setrab cooler
Got the car back & contacted Kyle @ DSE.. Told him all the issues.. he told me about the new 3rd member they were using on the Mustang & researched what the C&R units were all about.. Ordered one! When we pulled the whole rear out to rebuild & clean we made the decision to change the location of the pannard bar.. We wanted a lower roll center plus wanted the car to set lower… Got all modification done .. Took the car out to for a test & tune.. on the first couple of passes all was good then we heard A loud noise.. Something broke on the rear.. We would launch the car in a straight line.. only one tire was gripping… took the car back the shop Made a phone call to Karl.. We were suppose to leave to Motorstate & deliver the car.. Karl wanted to go racing.. Called DSE.. I would have to remove 3rd member & send it back for warranty.. Again no time for that.. Kyle was very apologetic & so was C&R.. I said no problem.. Stuff happens.. but I need to do something here pretty quick… The Wave Trac broke.. I never followed up on why it broke.. DSE warranted it.. sitting on the shelf but it has a place for another car we are building.. I had them take out the Wave Trac & put a Tru Trac in it…


Strange 3rd member with OS Giken unit, C&R Motive gear with REM process, external oil pump(This is the Strange unit I bought from The GMR)
This unit was working great when we left for Motorstate but still felt we might be spinning up the inside tire..What happen here was that when we changed the rear roll center & front sway bar.. The car starting getting great corner bite on the Auto-X & finally got the car to rotate on tight turns but with one change it impacts another.. Mike Maier’s kept just telling me .. “PUT A LOCKER ON IT”.. Karl did not want all the clanking noise of a locker… But one good thing came out of it.. We stopped losing ring & pinion! The REM gears & oil cooler cured that problem.. I keep those gear in stock now! But now we had the issue of spinning the inside tire… Karl was driving the car @ Motorstate & it was a uncomfortable feeling because it would pitch the car to one side.. lose traction & the RPM would shoot up.. Karl managed to finish the event.. but we the car was still not right.. So the car came back to CA… Back in CA we kept playing with the suspension settings & OS Giken unit.. Got it close to working but Casey came up with a idea.. Since we had a bunch of Unit sitting around.. lets test something.. I had a Traction Lok on the shelf!


Moser 3rd member housing rebuilt with Traction Lok re-worked by JCG, C&R Motive gear with REM process, external oil cooler pump
This is where we are now.. This set up has worked great for us on the Auto-X & road course.. Karl drove the car @ RTTC last Oct. & the outcome was great for him & me .. Finally found a combination that works in all aspects for the car.. Requires maintance.. we have to constantly check break away on the clutches in the unit but small price to pay for performance we were seeking… What we did to the Trac Lok? Well that is a old trick Auto Crossers have done for long time.. Casey was the one who came up with the idea..

Conclusion- I lay no blame on any vendor.. I am very impatient when it comes to issues on components.. I want quick results & if I need to take matter into my hands.. I will do so! My methods of doing things might not appeal to all but assume responsibility when I take matter into my own hands..

If I had to do it all over again.. I would be using a 12 bolt Chevy or Mustang 8.8 .. They have great clutch type posi unit systems.. Very tunable! This is only my opinion..

Also .. We are racing! Stuff breaks..

wow, I agree, stih breaks. So 4 pigs broke....I assume the same housing?

Thanks for taking the time. I was just curious.

[INTMD8]

Maybe I just got lucky but I have a fair amount of confidence in the 31 spline tru trac.

I didn't run it on a road course but did several dragstrip runs/etc. No issues ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fGQiIlyHTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm_A-Zl5d6k

[Cris@JCG]

Sorry.. You are right on that one.. I have some many units lying around I can get them confused.. :lol:

We both have an investment in 9" Ford housing.. So I can suggest the Strange 12 bolt drop out center section...

It is hard for me to explain in detail.. but for Auto-Xing with a car with low roll center i recommend a Clutch type unit.. It will also work great on the road coarse.. but HP can be a limiting factor..

Cris,

The third member you got from Jays black car was Moser, not Strange. The Strange unit is an S-trac. Moser is who sells the wavetrack.

On a side note, there is a 35 spline tru-trac available now but im excited to see what you have done and hopefully will have available in the future.

Jason

And now the Camaro, trailer, & all your tools have been sold.. & your prancing around in a little red Corvette! :D

Beat the ever living snot out of a Moser 12 bolt 33 spline true trac with not a single problem. Around 30 events and 7k street miles. Ran plain old valvoline dino oil with no oil cooler. :D Loved it...

great to hear that! I am in no way saying that a Tru Trac Or Wave Trac don't work... They just didn't for my application... What blew my mind & pissed me off the most was the ring & pinions howling.. Sometimes I felt like I had a cursed rear-end!


Maybe I just got lucky but I have a fair amount of confidence in the 31 spline tru trac.

I didn't run it on a road course but did several dragstrip runs/etc. No issues ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fGQiIlyHTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm_A-Zl5d6k

[INTMD8]

What blew my mind & pissed me off the most was the ring & pinions howling.. Sometimes I felt like I had a cursed rear-end!

Yeah I would say that mine had a -tiny- amount of noise only noticeable if you were really listening for it.

What I try to do now is use (even if used) OEM ring and pinion gears. I've had much better luck with a factory GM 12 bolt gear or factory ford 9in gear over anything else.

[gerno]

I'm curious if anyone has any new feedback for this topic - Truetrac vs the Wavetrac. I'm at the point where I'm swapping from a 10 bolt to a 9" rear and don't know what locker to use. My car is 3500lbs with only ~500 hp at the crank but will most likely move to the 600 range in the future. I'm thinking the Truetrack is plenty for but wanted to be sure I'm not missing anything

I did find this video while searching that was interesting to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZmsY2YvVsc


Steve

[carbuff]

Steve,

I do have the TruTrac in my car, but it will be a little while before we can actually drive it. Once I do, maybe you can get a feel for what it's like locally if you want.

[gerno]

Good to know. A drive to check it out would be awesome.

[31069ss]

Do you guys use posi then for the track or is there something better for street/track use .. I have posi in my 12 bolt now with 3.90 gears just wanted to get some input on what's best so i can make changes when all the stuff is out of the car