what headers for 69 camaro w dse sub,

[frankv11]

looking to hopefully buy headers soon for 69 camaro w dse sub , solid body mounts, ls6 , t56 mag combo. I love dse headers but $$$ is holding me back anything else out there that would give all the clerances needed especially the collector to floor.also would like to get 3" stainless exhaust kit that I can rework to meet my needs ?
any sugestions

[War]

I'd save your money Frank.....there that nice.

[frankv11]

Oh thanks that's not what I Want to hear. Lol

[Ron in SoCal]

I'd save your money Frank.....there that nice.

Hands down the sweetest set up for a DSE sub car. Fit/finish, clearance...you name it. Lemons/others custom headers cost the about the same. Maybe just buy a one brand at a time from Summit and return if they don't fit to your liking?

[cencalc6]

Frank, I have a set of SS Kooks 1 7/8 headers that are made for 1st gen camaros with LS engines.... I had to modify the Pasenger side to clear the frame.....What I did was cut 1/4 inch from each runner that are welded at the Header Flange....I angle the header so it clears the frame and then I tack them in place....My headers will clear an Art Morrison,Wayne Due and Speedtech Frames.Who knows they might just be a direct fit and you will save alot $$$ :unibrow: If shipping was not so much, I would ship them to you for testing.

[frankv11]

Good looking out on the info Philip. You can always save by shipping them one way. :D

[INJECTED69]

I Used Dynatech On Mine! Worked Out Perfect For My Ls Swap. For Plates I Used 1" Set Back !

[Musclerodz]

I Used Dynatech On Mine! Worked Out Perfect For My Ls Swap. For Plates I Used 1" Set Back !

That is not a DSE subframe though. OP has one which has R&P so normal LS swap headers may not clear the steering shaft

[Bad94]

Do the ATS headers fit the DSE sub frame? I cant find anyone with a DSE sub frame with ATS headers.

[War]

No they don't unless you want to notch one tube.

[frankv11]

Lemons Hugh, those come in SS?

Any one knows what 3" SS exhaust kit I can buy and modify to fit

Running dse quad link in rear and will cut trunk to fit?

[Musclerodz]

Lemons Hugh, those come in SS?

Any one knows what 3" SS exhaust kit I can buy and modify to fit

Running dse quad link in rear and will cut trunk to fit?

No one has one yet that I am aware of.

[frankv11]

I'm actually thinking about taking the road less traveled and maybe I'll build my own. I know if I take the route. Mid way I going to wish I had just bought dse.

[Rhino]

I'm actually thinking about taking the road less traveled and maybe I'll build my own. I know if I take the route. Mid way I going to wish I had just bought dse.

I've been thinking about that route myself. I picked up a set of 4th gen headers that are close to working. They were relatively cheap and should make a good starting point.

[505camaro69]

Has anyone tried the Dynatech headers?

I believe that I've seen them used on LS engines in a stock sub and on SBC engine in a DSE sub, but I've not heard of anyone who has tried them on an LS engine with a DSE sub.

Just wondering if anyone knows first hand.

[Musclerodz]

Has anyone tried the Dynatech headers?

I believe that I've seen them used on LS engines in a stock sub and on SBC engine in a DSE sub, but I've not heard of anyone who has tried them on an LS engine with a DSE sub.

Just wondering if anyone knows first hand. Dynatech will not work in a DSE sub due to the steering shaft for the rack.

[505camaro69]

Dynatech will not work in a DSE sub due to the steering shaft for the rack.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll be saving my money for the DSE headers.

[Matt@BOS]

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll be saving my money for the DSE headers.

If want to save some money you can buy a set of Hooker headers. Don't know what part number they are, but that's what I'm running. I never could justify 3k+ for a set or Lemons or ATS ones.

Matt

[tucks69]

The dynatechs will fit the DSE sub with a LS and clear the steering shaft if you use the mounts that set the engine back! BUT they have very little ground clearance with car at a low ride height. I am looking into Stainless Works or DSE headers myself!
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/tucker69/69%20Camaro/IPOD2011072.jpg

[Musclerodz]

how much do they hang below the sub?

[tucks69]

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/tucker69/d9784247.jpg
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/tucker69/3494ea20.jpg

[Musclerodz]

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/tucker69/d9784247.jpg
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/tucker69/3494ea20.jpg

Is that due to the 3 bolt collector under the floor? That is low.

[tucks69]

It's a 4 bolt collector. There is maybe 2.5 to 3 inches from the top of the collector flange to the floorpan. I do have the half height sub bushings but .5 of an inch won t help that much.I would like to see a Camaro with the stainless works before I order them, I know the DSE headers will work but that is an expesive set of headers. I always tell everybody else not to do things twice. Only good thing is this is one of two things I would change about my build, the other would be higher end shocks! The car ran great at RTOS with the ls2 to only have 10 miles on it! But I guess I have spent the cash on the rest of the DSE suspension I might as well go all the way! You only live once right!lol

[505camaro69]

The dynatechs will fit the DSE sub with a LS and clear the steering shaft if you use the mounts that set the engine back! BUT they have very little ground clearance with car at a low ride height. I am looking into Stainless Works or DSE headers myself!

I've not seen the Stainless Works LS headers with the DSE sub. Has anyone used this combination?

[frankv11]

well I'm still on side lines to see if something comes out of this thread. DSE has me on a corner, :wow:

[hotrod69camaro]

Lemon's headers. Good stuff

[DFRESH]

I have pics of the DSE headers in the DSE sub and can click off a few pics for you if that would help--I can tell you they fit like they should and only slightly hang below the subframe at the collector flange. Ground clearance was a huge item for me---I was thinking shorty headers, but didn't want to give up the HP/TQ. I got mine for 2k---that's quite a grip for a set of headers, i'll be the first to agree.

[Stuart Adams]

Dont skimp on headers. Get the DSE set for their sub, just one less thing to worry about. I've made mistakes with headers before and it sucks bigtime. From ground clearance issues to redoing the exhaust.

[Musclerodz]

Lemon's headers. Good stuff

Lemons stainless are actually more than DSE.

[frankv11]

Il be getting a quote on header material to see if it's worth the savings and effort.

[505camaro69]

If want to save some money you can buy a set of Hooker headers. Don't know what part number they are, but that's what I'm running. I never could justify 3k+ for a set or Lemons or ATS ones.

Matt

How is the ground clearance with the Hooker headers?

[Stuart Adams]

How is the ground clearance with the Hooker headers?

I've had problems with hooker on ground clearance. Big block super comp.

[Motime]

Is anyone running DSE subframe, DSE headers and a stock 69 column?

[frankv11]

ordered these about 2 1/2 months ago , finally got them yesterday and they are a piece of art but driver side does not fit it hits the shock tower on dse sub, I've double checked pinion angle , engine center to sub,etc. running all DSE complete sub w engine mounts
so as you can see in the pick, just mocked to check fitment , no gasket but it hits sub and does not allow to sit flush to heads its off by quite a bit. any one had this experience or any ideas on the cause besides defect.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo4-2.jpg

[frankv11]

another anglehttp://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo2-2.jpg

[Musclerodz]

another anglehttp://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo2-2.jpg

Do you have the 060404 mount kit? It sets the motor back and required with their headers.

[frankv11]

Yeah i'm Using they're ls motor mounts. Have to call them on mon

[frankv11]

Do you have the 060404 mount kit? It sets the motor back and required with their headers.

I got 060401 mounts , when I ordered sub assembly and LS mounts they never mentioned that I would need 060404 if I wanted to use they're headers, was not aware of two different Ls motor mount options for they're sub.
So now the trans tunnel , built in trans cross member , drive shaft, fire wall etc was built around these dimensions, I can not just swap mounts , and don't want to cut up $2500 headers $&@@$$&@@ I'm kind of in *^%# up position.

[Sieg]

Hopefully it's as simple as another set of mounts. :thumbsup:

[frankv11]

Hopefully it's as simple as another set of mounts. :thumbsup:

No it's not, I would have to cut up whole lot of car ,
1st i would need to recess magnacharger belt on to firewall,
2nd cut out trans cross member built and welded onto floor dse style
3rd cut inland empire 3.5" brand new drive shaft
4th redo trans tunnel
List goes on
I may have to build my own after all.

[Sieg]

No it's not, I would have to cut up whole lot of car ,
1st i would need to recess magnacharger belt on to firewall,
2nd cut out trans cross member built and welded onto floor dse style
3rd cut inland empire 3.5" brand new drive shaft
4th redo trans tunnel
List goes on
I may have to build my own after all.
Bummer!

[pro-touring.no]

Bummer!

I have the same issu... losen the engine mount and the engine/mount on the frame and move them over to passanger side just a little bit.. and u hav your clearens... and check you trans/mount if that is in corrrct possition...

Hope it will help..
Kjell:)

[frankv11]

I have the same issu... losen the engine mount and the engine/mount on the frame and move them over to passanger side just a little bit.. and u hav your clearens... and check you trans/mount if that is in corrrct possition...

Hope it will help..
Kjell:)
So you mean swing the trans towards the passenger side, and if so would that have a reprocautions ( tension on motor mounts or vibration )
Motor sits a dead center of sub now , so ill give that a try
Thanks

[pro-touring.no]

So you mean swing the trans towards the passenger side, and if so would that have a reprocautions ( tension on motor mounts or vibration )
Motor sits a dead center of sub now , so ill give that a try
Thanks


I had to lose all my bolts and move the hole engine over a bitt over to the passanger side yes.. and i also losen the trans and pull that a bit,,the headers is near,, but i hop it will be ok...

Kjell

[frankv11]

I had to lose all my bolts and move the hole engine over a bitt over to the passanger side yes.. and i also losen the trans and pull that a bit,,the headers is near,, but i hop it will be ok...

Kjell

No go for me , I have to move my trans 1" to almost clear headers, that is more than what I'm Confortable with. So my choices are
1. Find other mounts that move engine back about .5"
2. Cut up headers to fit
3. Cut subframe
4. Fab new headers

What ever its going to be. its sure going to be fun.
I'm hoping to possibly combine some mounts to move engine back a bit .5" at most and play with trans center offset.
Another idea would be to see if DSE would ship me driver side header without welds. that would could be my best bet.

[pro-touring.no]

No go for me , I have to move my trans 1" to almost clear headers, that is more than what I'm Confortable with. So my choices are
1. Find other mounts that move engine back about .5"
2. Cut up headers to fit
3. Cut subframe
4. Fab new headers

What ever its going to be. its sure going to be fun.
I'm hoping to possibly combine some mounts to move engine back a bit .5" at most and play with trans center offset.
Another idea would be to see if DSE would ship me driver side header without welds. that would could be my best bet.


Ohhh.. talk to them they sent me some tubes, and i have to cut and weld..
i didnt move my trans en engine much.. maybe few mm or so..
DSE should look into this.. if there is a better way to do it..
good luck:lateral:

Kjell

[Gatekeeper]

Has anyboby tried the Kooks headers with the DSE sub with 1/2 height body mounts? I've been talking with them and they suppose to be checking on fitment for this setup. They say they will work with the stock mounts but not sure about the 1/2 height mounts.

[randy]

get some dirty dingo fully adjustable mounts and see if you get some of the clearance you need

[randy]

and engine is trans is mocked up on my buddies 69 dse subframe
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0317.jpg

its close so we are going to have to tilt the engine up some or mod the crossmember. chances are the crossmember will get flattened out.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0316.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0315.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0312.jpg

the adapter will need to be turned the other way. currently its touching the headers
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0311.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0310.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMG_3924.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0307.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0306.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/IMAG0305.jpg

Overall the SW header clearance is amazing. they fit perfect in the subframe.

[randy]

i would love to trade you headers :)

[Gatekeeper]

Overall the SW header clearance is amazing. they fit perfect in the subframe.[/QUOTE]

The American Racing headers I tried fit the sub frame good also, but with the 1/2 height body mounts the headers was hitting the bottom of the floor pan.

[jeremy30thz]

Overall the SW header clearance is amazing. they fit perfect in the subframe.

[QUOTE=The American Racing headers I tried fit the sub frame good also, but with the 1/2 height body mounts the headers was hitting the bottom of the floor pan.[/QUOTE]

I would also like to know how the Stainless Works one fit after the subframe is in the car and steering linkage installed.....Also are these the Wayne Due style SW ones?

[69znc]

I sent you a PM. The recommended modifications and changes to the angles seems costly and risky. Do you fit the headers to the car or the car to the headers. One has risk and cost... the other has cost. Also the discussion seems to focus on the headers.. there is a lot of exhaust left to deal with given you have the quad link unless you want to go dusters before the axles....Let us know what you decide.

yes I had all the same challenges several times so I understand. I did run mine over the axle and out the back. Harder but worth the effort in my opinion.

[randy]

i can get some pic of them under the car soon for you

[Gatekeeper]

I sent you a PM. The recommended modifications and changes to the angles seems costly and risky. Do you fit the headers to the car or the car to the headers. One has risk and cost... the other has cost. Also the discussion seems to focus on the headers.. there is a lot of exhaust left to deal with given you have the quad link unless you want to go dusters before the axles....Let us know what you decide.

yes I had all the same challenges several times so I understand. I did run mine over the axle and out the back. Harder but worth the effort in my opinion.

Going with a custom crossmember and over the axles with a Quadralink. I'll probably try the Kooks to see if they work, but if not DSE headers it is. Has anybody tried Hookers?

[Gatekeeper]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/AGAINSTFLOOR2_zpsde026a5b.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/AGAINSTFLOOR2_zpsde026a5b.jpg.html)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/AGAINSTFLOOR_zps90bec4b1.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/AGAINSTFLOOR_zps90bec4b1.jpg.html)

Here's the issue I had with the 1/2 height body mounts. Half inch make a big difference.

[randy]

what if you cut off the end of the headers alittle bit and add a equivalent oval instead of a round end? something like this but straight.

http://www.spintechmufflers.com/transitions/transitions-in-horizontal-elbows/cat_48.html

[Gatekeeper]

That might could have worked, but if you cut the headers you bought them.
ARH was real nice about it and refunded my account. They would have worked with the stock body mounts. Kooks said they were not sure on the fitment either. :hairpullout:

[frankv11]

I agree , you should cut those at the collector . I would say 2.5" @ 5 degrees (judging by the picture) will give more than enough space.

You should have seen how much I hesitated at every cut on DSE ones. I was sweating like a dog. So any how I got my issue situated with help from DSE. I'll post up some info and pictures when I get to my laptop

[frankv11]

well first of would like to thank DSE Dan/kyle for helping me out with sending me a loose kit. they certainly went out of they're way to help out. I'm sure it takes man hours / $$ of going back and forth with client ,on something that is not part of the production line .
so this is what they looked like after a few length cuts. #3 and #7 were also cut, clocked & tacked as seen in pics. it was a pain trying to make all four tubes give the clearance needed ( frame & steering shaft ) while being able to tuck them inside at collector.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo1_zps74f97df2.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/photo1_zps74f97df2.jpg.html)
yeah I was sweating at every cut. sometimes I would cut just the thickness of the bladehttp://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo5_zps53d109b6.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/photo5_zps53d109b6.jpg.html)
I started with this two because the only cut required was the length at both ends.http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo4_zpsd0609955.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/photo4_zpsd0609955.jpg.html)
clearance pic before any tacking and no collector work yet.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo3_zps97f1435f.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/photo3_zps97f1435f.jpg.html)http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo3_zps54697d58.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/photo3_zps54697d58.jpg.html)
ahhh
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/frankv11/photo1_zpsf48b3460.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/frankv11/media/photo1_zpsf48b3460.jpg.html)
finished and perfect fit :ups:

[Gatekeeper]

Wow Frank, the headers turned out great, glad you got the fitment you needed. Hope I can also. :thumbsup:

[69znc]

Frank those do look awesome. Very nice welding!

[frankv11]

Wow Frank, the headers turned out great, glad you got the fitment you needed. Hope I can also. :thumbsup:
Thanks , sure you can get it done just do be afraid to cut. Measure 6x sleep on it and cut

Frank those do look awesome. Very nice welding!
I wish I could weld like this but those are DSE welds. Part of the deal was that I would ship them back for final welding. Had to meet quality control for the brand.
No regrets on $$$ spend
Tx

[manelasj]

so is DSE going to add them to their catalog? I am in the same situation. I have their frame and stock height body mounts but my metal work is all done and painted. Don't want to move engine back and cut up tunnel. What options do I have? Thanks for any input.

[Gatekeeper]

Going with the Ultimate headers that Dan Holohan received from them at his shop a few days ago. Here is a few pics of the fitment on my car. I tried to get as many angles as I could. Give him a call and he can fill you in on them.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/Headerspic6_zps210ee707.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/Headerspic6_zps210ee707.jpg.html)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/Headerspic1_zps4ab742ae.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/Headerspic1_zps4ab742ae.jpg.html)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/Headerspic3_zps3719e4b3.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/Headerspic3_zps3719e4b3.jpg.html)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/Headerspic4_zps6f113e01.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/Headerspic4_zps6f113e01.jpg.html)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/Headerspic5_zps76e4fdc2.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/Headerspic5_zps76e4fdc2.jpg.html)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/aldrichc5/UltimateHeaders4_zps1501794c.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/aldrichc5/media/UltimateHeaders4_zps1501794c.jpg.html)

[73camarols1]

Gatekeeper, how did the ultimate headers work out? I know I have seen pics of them on Red Devil. I am using a DSE subframe in a 2nd gen and I'm hoping the ultimate headers will work. Also if they did work what motor mounts did you use or if anyone knows what set back Red Devil uses. I know the passanger side is custom to use a 4th gen motor mount. Thanks Bill