Driverz, Inc.

[214Chevy]

Has anyone heard from Driverz, Inc and its new owner? I bought some of their new aluminum, silver lug nuts and they sent me the wrong size. I have been calling them to exchange for almost 3 weeks with no return phone call. I left a message, but now as I keep calling their voice mail is full and isn't taking anymore messages. I call them 3-4 times a day with no answer and unable to leave a message. I'm trying to be patient before I turn to the vendor feedback forum and rant with displeasure.

[CRCRFT78]

Uh oh, starting off on the wrong foot is not the way to go.

[dhutton]

Check the vendor feedback forum over on the other site...

Don

[Ron in SoCal]

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462239

[SWAPMEETCRAZY]

Yellow bullet guys don't play!! My 1st time over there....already got both of them hanged!!............jim

[GregWeld]

Doesn't surprise me one iota....


Sorry -- anyone doing biz with them after all the complaints on every forum for the last couple YEARS is just asking for problems.

[parsonsj]

it looks like that Travis guy who supposedly bought Driver's Inc. was scamming people from the very beginning.Couldn't disagree more. My take is that Travis had a look at the business, saw something he didn't like, and didn't close on the deal.

[MarkM66]

Couldn't disagree more. My take is that Travis had a look at the business, saw something he didn't like, and didn't close on the deal.

He probably should have done that before "coming out" as the new owner.

[parsonsj]

He probably should have done that before "coming out" as the new owner.Agreed. And/or should have done a public "I'm backing out" bit so it was clear to the customer base. Jon was and is free to do the same, and so we are left to speculate, I guess. Those are both a long ways away from intent to commit fraud, as was stated above.

[Tony_SS]

There seems to be a lack of transparency from both Jon and Travis in my opinion....

[pokey64]

Paging Mr McGuire... :_paranoid

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=35685&highlight=mcguire

[garickman]

Couldn't disagree more. My take is that Travis had a look at the business, saw something he didn't like, and didn't close on the deal.

I don't have a take on the situation. As I stated I don't have any facts, I was just letting 509Chevelle know what I have seen and heard on other forums. I guess without Travis or Jon coming on and stating what actually happened we are all left to speculate. I do know that Travis came on a public forum on February 20th and stated he was in fact the new owner of Driver'z Inc. The reason I said it seems something shady is going on is because why would someone state they are new owners on February 20th, take orders and money from customers up until March 16th, never use that money to place some of the orders and then say the deal fell through and he has nothing to do with Driver'z Inc. and he doesn't know what happened to the outstanding money from customers. Again, no facts on the missing money or orders, just letting you know what I have read from some pissed off customers on other forums.

[parsonsj]

The reason I said it seems something shady is going on is because why would someone state they are new owners on February 20th, take orders and money from customers up until March 16th, never use that money to place some of the orders and then say the deal fell through and he has nothing to do with Driver'z Inc. and he doesn't know what happened to the outstanding money from customers. I hear ya. I guess we should stop speculating, and wait for real information. :cheers:

[garickman]

I hear ya. I guess we should stop speculating, and wait for real information. :cheers:

I do know one thing, if Jon is legitimate and he is just a victim of some really bad luck, then I feel for him. I would apologize and wish him the best of luck. If he somehow knows what is going on and people are getting ripped off, then one would have to think he is getting what he deserves. Either way it sounds like a bad situation for all involved and I hope things work out and everyone ends up happy.:cheers:

[Matt@BOS]

I'm going to paraphrase what I wrote under another topic.

Yes, I am second hand information. I know, I know. I figured nobody likes being left completely in the dark, so some info is better than none. I'm not going to take sides here. I don't know the specifics of the purchase agreement, and I don't want to. The split was news to me though. I went up there the day before Travis backed out, and everything seemed normal. I payed Travis and Driverz for tires, and put a deposit down for a set of New Gens with Jon. That was at least two weeks ago

I dropped by the Driverz/New Gen shop this past Thursday on my way up to Riverside, and spoke with Jon for a little bit. I'm not going to elaborate on why Jon said the deal broke off, but Jon did say that should Driverz end up without or another owner (i.e. almost immediately), he would reassume control of the company, fill orders, pay any invoices, and wind the company down so that he could focus on New Gen as he has been intending.

I agree that the lack of transparency isn't comforting, at all, however, a public forum is not the place for two people to chronicle a business deal that didn't go through. I do hope that someone breaks the silence, just to let customers know how their orders will be handled.

Matt

[GregWeld]

He probably should have done that before "coming out" as the new owner.

Yep! It's called DUE DILIGENCE.... that's ALL done BEFORE anything else.

[chevelleshack]

Yea , i'm one of the guys that got pulled for 6600.00 for some parts that i never got from Jon . Placed the order through him in January , not Travis so i think he may not have much to do with this ? Disputed the transaction so all is good now & got my parts directly from ridetech ( THANKS DARREN !!! ) & the rest of the stuff from Matts ( where i will go from now on ) . But i do have a question , Greg , when you posted about them having problems for years that is the first i had heard of that ! One of the reasons i ordered from them in the first place was the rave reviews he got on here ? How many websites does one need to cruise to find out if a dealer is bad ? Not calling you out , just wondering how else i could have prevented this when i thought i had done some homework !
Phil

[GregWeld]

Yea , i'm one of the guys that got pulled for 6600.00 for some parts that i never got from Jon . Placed the order through him in January , not Travis so i think he may not have much to do with this ? Disputed the transaction so all is good now & got my parts directly from ridetech ( THANKS DARREN !!! ) & the rest of the stuff from Matts ( where i will go from now on ) . But i do have a question , Greg , when you posted about them having problems for years that is the first i had heard of that ! One of the reasons i ordered from them in the first place was the rave reviews he got on here ? How many websites does one need to cruise to find out if a dealer is bad ? Not calling you out , just wondering how else i could have prevented this when i thought i had done some homework !
Phil




There are NUMEROUS posts right here that have been going on for 2 plus years about exceptionally long lead times. Payments in full up front and no orders placed with the factories etc.

[realcoray]

Yea , i'm one of the guys that got pulled for 6600.00 for some parts that i never got from Jon . Placed the order through him in January , not Travis so i think he may not have much to do with this ? Disputed the transaction so all is good now & got my parts directly from ridetech ( THANKS DARREN !!! ) & the rest of the stuff from Matts ( where i will go from now on ) . But i do have a question , Greg , when you posted about them having problems for years that is the first i had heard of that ! One of the reasons i ordered from them in the first place was the rave reviews he got on here ? How many websites does one need to cruise to find out if a dealer is bad ? Not calling you out , just wondering how else i could have prevented this when i thought i had done some homework !
Phil

It was a lot less subtle than some other former vendors, but there have been quite a few incidents and lots of excuses for awhile. Nothing quite like taking thousands of dollars on multiple orders and not delivering, but hints.

What I've learned is that the great vendors you pretty much never hear about. I cannot ever recall hearing anything about Detroit Speed for example, and it's because they give you the parts you order in a timely fashion and don't make excuses. When the guy you give thousands of dollars to, acts like he's doing you a favor, you should go elsewhere.

[Southrod]

There are NUMEROUS posts right here that have been going on for 2 plus years about exceptionally long lead times. Payments in full up front and no orders placed with the factories etc.

And I was one of those and got shot down when I mentioned on here way back when.

[jocko124]

And I was one of those and got shot down when I mentioned on here way back when.

You're not alone. Lot of Driverz cheerleaders here! Apparently Jon can do no wrong.

[buickfunnycar.com]

You're not alone. Lot of Driverz cheerleaders here! Apparently Jon can do no wrong.

Well I must have been one of the lucky ones I guess because in all my dealings with Jon Henson over the years...5 1/2 sets of wheels/tires for all my cars (including my DD),I never had an issue with the man and would trust him like a brother.

Until I hear from him specifically as to what's gone on here,I won't speculate and will certainly give him the benefit of the doubt. :yes:

[John510]

I wanted a set of New Gen spiders but now Im scared to order some since I don't know who to trust anymore after reading this post.

[GregWeld]

And I was one of those and got shot down when I mentioned on here way back when.

I agree.... this particular vendor has gotten far too much "protection". It's too bad because Jon personally is a super good guy... but "bidness is bidness".

[Rick D]

I agree.... this particular vendor has gotten far too much "protection". It's too bad because Jon personally is a super good guy... but "bidness is bidness".

:yes: yupp friends is friends and bidness is bidness they don't mix :thumbsup:

[Bryan O]

I agree.... this particular vendor has gotten far too much "protection". It's too bad because Jon personally is a super good guy... but "bidness is bidness".

He didn't get, nor did he need, any "protection" when he and I did business. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for Jon Henson from my point of view.

It's probably wise to wait until one has all the facts here before reaching a verdict.

[skatinjay27]

You're not alone. Lot of Driverz cheerleaders here! Apparently Jon can do no wrong.
i wont speak on southrods dealings BUT regarding your dealings it was all aired out (both sides) and i dont know about others but my conclusion was your situation wasn't john fault at all... cheer-leading's got nothing to do with it..

[Greg from Aus]

i wont speak on southrods dealings BUT regarding your dealings it was all aired out (both sides) and i dont know about others but my conclusion was your situation wasn't john fault at all... cheer-leading's got nothing to do with it..

Your view is certainly NOT MINE, and cheer-leading has everything to do with it.

Greg

[usa-69z]

alright , im going to give you some of my story here..I have just found this thread after looking to see if driverz has been posting.. I am one of the customers who was caught up in the fikse/driverz dramas a few months back,, i waited over 10 months for my rims after numerous promises that they were ready to ship.. I dropped good money up front (10 months earlier) and waited and waited.. i had No contact until i made my frustration public by way of this forum.Then i got offered a deal to change to forgelines as mine hadnt been built yet after 10 months !. i was promised a fast turnaround of 4/5 weeks.. 2 months later i got my 'forgeline'wheels. i sold them a soon as they arrived as it left a 'bad taste' in my mouth.. so now without rims for my camaro i ordered a new set of american racers cl205s with who i thought was Jon ,, but i had a reply from a guy name 'travis'??? so ok i do some searching and see that he is the new owner.. so i order my rims ,, pay 'up front' and off we go again. 2 months go by and i send an email,, and i get a reply from Jon??? he says 'big dramas here' your wheels are ready .. so i wait a week and send another email (im in australia) so are the wheels there ? yes there here ready to ship but' we will be doing the goodguys show on weekend so dont be upset if i dont reply for a while?????
so now im not sure what to make of all this. Ive sent 2 emails this week with no response? Is goodguys been and gone? was he there setup? any suggestions guys , its hard as im downunder and i need some rims or my money back !!!.. Jon if you read this please reply and settle these issues as what im reading on forums is not creating any confidence in your customers.

Gav

[chevelleshack]

There is no speculation or doubt as to what happened to me . Parts were not ordered ( about a month ) until i called ridetech directly to get the ball rolling then after another couple of weeks go by still no parts , ridetech calls Driverz & gets " there is no money to pay you " to make a long story short .
Phil

[usa-69z]

ive just noticed Jon has posted on his facebook page 17hrs ago??? so he IS near a computor . im sure he's reading this stuff.

[usa-69z]

can someone get me some contact info for american racing? who would be used by them?

[96z28ss]

Bottom line is no one should buy New Gen wheels or any wheel from Driverz Inc.
Jon may be a cool guy to hang out with at a bar or hang out with at a car show, but he just shouldn't be running a business. From all the complaints here and on other boards, to his stupid Jerry Macguire post. He should not be running a business. I wouldn't buy a valve stem nut from him.

Anyone ever notice that most of the local guys get their wheels and have no complaints, or the well known guys don't have any issues, but the guys that are out of state have the issues.

[GregWeld]

can someone get me some contact info for american racing? who would be used by them?

Here's where I'd start!

File a report with the Internet division of the FBI. Seriously.


http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

[John510]

I wasn't going to post this since I thought my story was a fluke but here it goes. I ordered my Fesler wheels from DriverzInc. They took 9 months to get here. After about 16 weeks I was getting VERY pissed off. Chris Fesler told me that they were never paid for (I left half deposit) so they never ordered from Asanti. Jon said that it was Feslers fault. There were a lot of fingers pointing on who was at fault. Finally it got to the point to where I was going to do a chargeback on my card.

I started dealing with Fesler directly. Well I finally got my wheels after dealing direct to the source.

Jon did always answer his phone and give good customer service when I called him everyday looking for my missing wheels.

[LILBuzzy]

these fockers sound like congressmen. i think it was a texas two way fock your buddy deal done in the california sun. and much like a congressional deal, we the people get screwed. sad. :(

[tjbruning]

i wont speak on southrods dealings BUT regarding your dealings it was all aired out (both sides) and i dont know about others but my conclusion was your situation wasn't john fault at all... cheer-leading's got nothing to do with it..

I disagree. I've seen the wheel fitment on Lee's car in person, and just because they bolt onto the car, doesn't mean they fit right. Tire profile is wrong front to rear, the fronts rub the control arm at lock, etc. It's those "crazy" wheel wells...

Lee learned the hard way, and now Forgeline is re-hooping the wheels at Lee's expense. I'm sure the deal could've been resolved with Lee and Driver'z if Jon tried to work with him on re-hooping the wheels. Jon could've given him a price break (not loose money, just not make as much money) but quoted him full retail price instead. That's not good customer service in my opinion.

So, cheerleading did have something to do with it...

[tjbruning]

I agree.... this particular vendor has gotten far too much "protection". It's too bad because Jon personally is a super good guy... but "bidness is bidness".

How'd those Blizzak's do in the middle of summer? :lol:

[GregWeld]

How'd those Blizzak's do in the middle of summer? :lol:

Yeah -- his delivery SUCKS....

I think I was lucky and actually got them (and the wheels) but the packaging was so horrible it's only because I'm the luckiest guy alive that they got here without damage.

At the time I posted and thanked him for the transaction - just supporting a vendor/supporter here... but I should have been far more honest and said how I really felt.

I could have gotten the wheels and tires from Tire Rack in 3 days... not a couple MONTHS after ordering.

[usa-69z]

he says he was at 'goodguys san diego' im my last contact?

im as anxious as hell over this..???
17hrs ago on face book.. 7 days ago on protouring ..

[usa-69z]

I just checked out his facebook page, I didn't see where he posted 17 hours ago. It's too bad things are not working out for him. He really does have some nice wheels, and it looks like he has some pretty killer wheels in the works. His facebook page actually looks pretty good.

Greg , if you look under his last post it tells when posted in ghost grey small print.

[Swain]

We have been having issues with dealers using their customers money on other things then their customers call us saying they ordered wheels 8 months ago, then they put the blame on us so we feel like the bad guy and end up pushing their wheels through. I guess it's a good thing we manufacture our own wheels so were not in the same boat. :P :patriot:

[Simmo]

alright , im going to give you some of my story here..I have just found this thread after looking to see if driverz has been posting.. I am one of the customers who was caught up in the fikse/driverz dramas a few months back,, i waited over 10 months for my rims after numerous promises that they were ready to ship.. I dropped good money up front (10 months earlier) and waited and waited.. i had No contact until i made my frustration public by way of this forum.Then i got offered a deal to change to forgelines as mine hadnt been built yet after 10 months !. i was promised a fast turnaround of 4/5 weeks.. 2 months later i got my 'forgeline'wheels. i sold them a soon as they arrived as it left a 'bad taste' in my mouth.. so now without rims for my camaro i ordered a new set of american racers cl205s with who i thought was Jon ,, but i had a reply from a guy name 'travis'??? so ok i do some searching and see that he is the new owner.. so i order my rims ,, pay 'up front' and off we go again. 2 months go by and i send an email,, and i get a reply from Jon??? he says 'big dramas here' your wheels are ready .. so i wait a week and send another email (im in australia) so are the wheels there ? yes there here ready to ship but' we will be doing the goodguys show on weekend so dont be upset if i dont reply for a while?????
so now im not sure what to make of all this. Ive sent 2 emails this week with no response? Is goodguys been and gone? was he there setup? any suggestions guys , its hard as im downunder and i need some rims or my money back !!!.. Jon if you read this please reply and settle these issues as what im reading on forums is not creating any confidence in your customers.

Gav

Hey man I feel your pain, but curious as to why you ordered the second set off essentially the same crowd that dicked you around the first time?

Have you paid by paypal/cc? I'd pull the pin and raise a dispute ASAP.

Hope it all works out for ya

[usa-69z]

Hey man I feel your pain, but curious as to why you ordered the second set off essentially the same crowd that dicked you around the first time?

Have you paid by paypal/cc? I'd pull the pin and raise a dispute ASAP.

Hope it all works out for ya

yes probably wasnt the best desicion but i gave Jon the benifit of the doubt at the time and as they wernt a custom order wheel i thought it would be qwik.. the turnaround would be on time if he shipped them this week but after reading this stuff im gettin nervous and with no more contact its smellin' fishy. I paid by credit card in Jan this year so not sure what i can do,, Ill wait this week out and see what happens, then ill take it further.

[Simmo]

Just be aware beyond 90 days any cc charge may be more difficult to chase up, you might be getting close to that 90 days now.

Shouldn't be too much issue re-stocking an off the shelf set of wheels too.

Google "american racing custom wheels" and I got this + a few more leads...

http://asp.americanracing.com/bottom/contact.asp?section=cont

http://wikimapia.org/11356609/American-Racing-Equipment-Inc

American Racing Custom Wheels
19067 South Reyes Avenue
Rancho Dominguez, CA 90221

Phone: 310-761-4915. Fax: 310-608-0297.

If you want attention I'd chuck a 001 in front of the number above and see where that leads, pretty big company so I think you might have more luck emailing Jon than them. Fingers crossed for ya!

[Lenie]

Bottom line is no one should buy New Gen wheels or any wheel from Driverz Inc.
Jon may be a cool guy to hang out with at a bar but

Tired of cool guy good guy phrases, it's just bs. If you steal, your a thief and your fingers should be cut off, next offense, your hands. My world, it's black and white, there's no such thing as a nice guy thief. You break into my house at night to steal, I'm not going to offer you a beer and chat to find out if your a good guy.

[GregWeld]

Tired of cool guy good guy phrases, it's just bs. If you steal, your a thief and your fingers should be cut off, next offense, your hands. My world, it's black and white, there's no such thing as a nice guy thief. You break into my house at night to steal, I'm not going to offer you a beer and chat to find out if your a good guy.

Very good point Lenie!

[Tony_SS]

Tired of cool guy good guy phrases, it's just bs. If you steal, your a thief and your fingers should be cut off, next offense, your hands. My world, it's black and white, there's no such thing as a nice guy thief. You break into my house at night to steal, I'm not going to offer you a beer and chat to find out if your a good guy.

:yes:

[96z28ss]

Tired of cool guy good guy phrases, it's just bs. If you steal, your a thief and your fingers should be cut off, next offense, your hands. My world, it's black and white, there's no such thing as a nice guy thief. You break into my house at night to steal, I'm not going to offer you a beer and chat to find out if your a good guy.


Thats why I said MAY, cause the local guys around him are always sticking up for him. I see it the same way you do Lenie, thats why I said I wouldn't buy a $.50 item from him.

[Lenie]

Thats why I said MAY, cause the local guys around him are always sticking up for him. I see it the same way you do Lenie, thats why I said I wouldn't buy a $.50 item from him.

Sorry, the comment wasn't directed at your comment specifically. Just to many people sticking up for vendors that keep coming up short. I don't know about everyone else but my success w/many of the vendors I've pretty much done business w/here has been less than impressive. I'm just thankful I've got a good percentage of my money back.

[214Chevy]

Tired of cool guy good guy phrases, it's just bs. If you steal, your a thief and your fingers should be cut off, next offense, your hands. My world, it's black and white, there's no such thing as a nice guy thief. You break into my house at night to steal, I'm not going to offer you a beer and chat to find out if your a good guy.

... Just to many people sticking up for vendors that keep coming up short.

Exactly!! Two of the most realest statements. Exactly why Monday morning I'm going to my bank and fill out the form for my $80 back for the lugnuts. I've called for 3 weeks with no answer. Therefore, I don't care if it's $.08 or $80, I'm not gonna sit around and wait for a mickey fickey to feel like he thinks it's the right time to make it right. Or wait until he wants to make it right. If you know you got people money or have done them a wrong business deal, you make it right ASAP. I know this Travis guy and Jon may be at odds, but that's not my problem.

[Vegas69]

I'm with you guys, this dog and pony show needs to end, for good.

[RECOVERY ROOM]

Tired of cool guy good guy phrases, it's just bs. If you steal, your a thief and your fingers should be cut off, next offense, your hands. My world, it's black and white, there's no such thing as a nice guy thief. You break into my house at night to steal, I'm not going to offer you a beer and chat to find out if your a good guy.

Break into houses around here and we shoot you, Then call are buddys to discuss the holes we made or spread pattern :lol:

[dropped72ss]

Well I know who i'm not giving my business to when i order my wheels!!! I totally agree with boycotting NewGen wheels too.

[Vicinity]

Glad I caught this thread. I was about 1 day away from ordering up a set of VWW from Driverz. I'll steer clear of this mess and just deal with my bent wheel for now.

[novanutcase]

yes probably wasnt the best desicion but i gave Jon the benifit of the doubt at the time and as they wernt a custom order wheel i thought it would be qwik.. the turnaround would be on time if he shipped them this week but after reading this stuff im gettin nervous and with no more contact its smellin' fishy. I paid by credit card in Jan this year so not sure what i can do,, Ill wait this week out and see what happens, then ill take it further.

And look what happens when you give someone the benefit of the doubt! They dick you with no regard to ethics. I know how you feel as I've recently had the same experience but in a slightly different way. I say forget about trying to work it out with NewGen/Driverz. They obviously have no regard for you or your order so why should you give them any? Call the CC company immediately and have the charges reversed.

Maybe this would be the best thing as it may put the final nail in the proverbial coffin and close down what seems to be an unscrupulous company. Also seems that Mr. Hensons company is working without any usable day to day capital. Not a good way of running a business.

John

[Ketzer]

working without any usable day to day capital. Not a good way of running a business.

John

I personally think this is a whole lot more common than folks want to admit. That's the reason this keeps happening on here again and again.

Jeff-

[The WidowMaker]

i agree that friends are friends and bus is bus, but in my experience the good guys are both friends and the guys i buy parts from. ive never had any bad experience and then said, "but id have a beer with him". if somebody is f-ing me over, id rather pound their face and shove the bottle up their arse instead.

im not a jon cheerleader like some others on here, but ive met him and cant see him doing this. maybe my character judging skills are way the heck off, but this doesnt make sense to me. get your money back that you have invested and all the other nay sayers need to just hold off and see what happens. i know hes focused on newgen, and newgen WILL NOT survive with this mess. give him some time to figure this mess out and he will come through. i hope im not proved wrong.

btw, mike @ muscle rodz, mark @ sc&c and tobin @ kore3 are some GREAT vendors for parts. but you guys already knew that:yes:

[raguemoe]

I had my 69 towed from Driverz last week (long story). Last I heard everything blew up on the deal and Jon sold everything @the shop and was filing BK. So anyone that is owed money/product from them I would put in a claim asap & cross your fingers.

I'm out another $650 for a new set of axles just to get my car back on the road after dealing with them for the last year on a bad suspension install they did. But at this point I'm just happy the car wasn't damaged or lost while at his shop!

Btw, Travis looked like a kid just out of high school so I wouldn't count on him solving anyones problem. I'd be talking to Jon!

[The WidowMaker]

I personally think this is a whole lot more common than folks want to admit. That's the reason this keeps happening on here again and again.


outright scary

Jon sold everything @the shop and was filing BK

not good......

[DTM Racing]

I personally think this is a whole lot more common than folks want to admit. That's the reason this keeps happening on here again and again.

Jeff-

The internet has allowed this. I prefer to do business with brick and mortar stores. Face to face and handshakes with actual inventory are much more comforting than just giving some guy on the internet your money. The companies with the drop-ship policies cause these guys to deal at cut-throat prices. TO deal at those prices, you have to jack up your volume. If you do not have the capacity to deal with that volume, you'll find things getting out of control. Fast.

[DTM Racing]

outright scary



not good......

And why is it so terrifying to imagine that a company doesn't want to operate in the red?

[rfrankb4]

This whole situation stinks. I am with several other people on here in that I managed to dodge a bullet by deciding at the last moment to deal with someone else on my wheels.

From reading the timeline on here and at yellowbullet it sure smells like this "Sale" was a poorly set up scam to buy time while arranging for a favorable bankruptcy after the money that was paid in quietly disappears into daily operating expenses and small cash withdrawals for "petty cash expenses"

I sure hope the aggrieved parties follow through and pursue criminal actions as needed. It never ceases to amaze me just how many broke people "find" 10k or more when it is that or go to jail. There is little doubt in my mind from these accounts that there were orders taken when the management had no intention of paying manufacturers for the product as agreed.

While It is still possible that Jon is a stand up guy and this has all been a misunderstanding but the odds on that are looking mighty slim atm. (not sure I would gamble on that at 50:1)

[usa-69z]

ok , here we go all ... ive had contact and its not good.. just for the cheerleaders heres a transcript taken straight from my private email ...

he lied his arse off ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gavin,
Yes ready to ship.
Travis bailed, (LONG STORY) but I'm left picking up the pieces to close these things out.

Same shipping information as before, correct? IF so, I'll put it all together and send you the info. We're leaving for the Good Guys show in San Diego, so I may be delayed a day or two, FYI, so you don't think you're being ignored if I don't respond right away.

Jon
NewGenWheels.com
714-915-5533



Quote:




Originally Posted by usa-69z

ok cool , well they must be ready to ship if you picked them up last friday? its now wed ..let me know whats happening .

Gavin




Quote:




Originally Posted by DriverzInc

Not our fault, FIKSE sucks, lets not blame it all on Driverz.

Your order is READY! I'll be picking them up from A/R on Friday.

Jon

Yes, Jon, I'm back in it.


DriverzInc.com
866-694-5940




Quote:




Originally Posted by usa-69z

Travis , please checkout this order as i waited over 10 months for my last set thru driverz thru bad management.





Quote:




Originally Posted by DriverzInc



Quote:




Originally Posted by usa-69z

Hi Travis, i ws wondering if you can check the status of an order i placed and paid for over a month ago for a set of cl205 us racing wheels for my camaro. I initially dealt with Jon .. name is Gavin *****- these will be shipped to australia when they turn up..

cheers, Gav

Gavin,

Sorry I didn't get a chance to check today on your wheels. I will do it first thing in the morning.

- Travis




__________________

Sales

D R I V E R Z Inc.com

Wheels / Tires / Brakes / Suspension / Parts /
Check out our new website, we're much more than just wheels!

Toll Free: 1-866-694-5940 _Corona, CA

[usa-69z]

and this today ... from his facebook account...:mad:


Jonathan Henson:unibrow:




Call your credit card company now and charge it back as soon as possible. Driverzinc is not going to fill any more orders, and there's nothing I can do about it, your money went into the DriverzInc account, and there's nothing I can do about it now.

.

[214Chevy]

Not cool at all! In fact that is just BS. If it is too late to file a claim with your credit card company and you can not get your money back, you may have to go to court. Do your homework and contact as many people as you can who have had similar dealings with Driver'z Inc. You actually may be able to use these forums such as this one and pro-touring.com to show that there has been intent to defraud. Before everyone jumps all over me, I AM NOT saying that is what happened, I am just saying it is possible and there are some things that need to be looked at. For example;

Jon has been a member on lateral-g and pro-touring for 5 1/2 years under the user name of Driverz Inc.

Now on 2/20/12 on pro-touring.com, there is a post under Jons username that states Driverz Inc is under new ownership. It ends with poster stating his name is Travis Dulgerian. In that post, Travis states that Jon is now focusing soley on NewGen Wheel. http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?87360-DRIVERZ-INC-New-Ownership-Introductory&highlight=driverz+inc

On 3/15/12 on pro-touring.com, there is a post which states Driverz Inc is having a sale on overstock items. http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?88118-DriverzInc-Twist-Machine-Overstock-Sale&highlight=driverz+inc. On 3/20/12 in this same thread, Jon Henson replies to someone using his new user name of NewGenWheels. He tells this person he emailed them a quote for shipping and to call Driverz Inc to order. Now according to Travis (alleged new owner) his last day at Driverz Inc. was 3/16/12. My question would be why was it Jon who quoted the shipping cost, and why did Jon tell this person to call Driverz Inc. to order if he knew Travis left 4 days earlier? Why was anyone taking customers money when they clearly knew the business was in major trouble?
Here is a link in which Travis states he no longer with Drivers Inc. His user name is street3285 http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?88648-Driverz-inc&highlight=driverz+inc.

Now for lateral-g. On 2/20/12, there is a post under Jon's username of DriverzInc stating Driverz is under new ownership. It is the same post that was used on pro-touring.com, and again the poster states his name is Travis Dulgerian.

On 3/20/12 there is a post on lateral-g.net under Jon's username of DriversInc stating they have a magnaflow exhaust special. Keep in mind this is exactly one month after the announcement of the new ownership. Exactly one month after Jon was to soley focus on NewGen Wheels. Exactly 14 days after the new alleged owner Travis stated he was officially in the office and exactly 4 days after Travis stated he was not the owner of Driverz Inc. and was no longer with Driverz Inc as of 3/16/12. So who posted the tread advertising the sale? Why was this sale even offered if Travis was no longer there and the business was in complete disarray? Was it an honest mistake or was there intent to defraud customers promising a sale on product they could not deliver?

I want to be very clear that I am in no way stating that either Travis or Jon ever had any intent to defraud customers. I am simply pointing out some discrepancies that I noticed on some public forums along with some questions I have raised and if answered might put some peoples mind at ease.

1. Why were Travis and Jon using the same user name of DriverzInc so it is impossible to tell who was posting?

2. Why would Travis come on public forums announcing he is in fact the new owner of Driverz Inc knowing full well he was not legally the owner?

3. Did the transfer/sale of the business really fall through or was there ever a deal in the first place?

4. Did Jon know the business had more potential to fail than succeed? If so, why keep offering sales, taking customers money?

Greg, I thought you said you were not an expert or the sharpest tool in the box. To me, it seems as if you have figured it all out and it makes plenty of good sense to me. I'm only out of $80. If you are out of more, I hope you get dealt right or your money gets returned. You know speaking of all of the "logging in under different names" back then I did notice that, but didn't give it much thought because I assumed everything was on the up and up with the sale back then. I just thought it was two guys who were friends doing a business deal.

[garickman]

Greg, I thought you said you were not an expert or the sharpest tool in the box. To me, it seems as if you have figured it all out and it makes plenty of good sense to me. I'm only out of $80. If you are out of more, I hope you get dealt right or your money gets returned. You know speaking of all of the "logging in under different names" back then I did notice that, but didn't give it much thought because I assumed everything was on the up and up with the sale back then. I just thought it was two guys who were friends doing a business deal.

Fortunatley, I am not out any money as I am not one of the unlucky customers. I just can't stand to see people ripped off their hard earned money so I figured this might be a way I could possibly help.

[usa-69z]

i have contacted my cc company and they will investigate..They said it takes 6 weeks ..??? i told them the story and they report it as non recieved goods that you paid for? i will push it more after the weekend.

on the other side of things ,, he (JON) took my money $1400 on the 13/2/2012 and said the order was placed , then he has said he picked them up , then he had them in the shop ready to ship..If thats not fraud/theft i dont know what is?? thats as blatant as can be.... ive had numerous emails today from other guys that have spoken to him as recent as today and he is still telling them there wheels are on there way..

[214Chevy]

Fortunatley, I am not out any money as I am not one of the unlucky customers. I just can't stand to see people ripped off their hard earned money so I figured this might be a way I could possibly help.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have no sympathy for a liar and less for a thief. From the looks of it, and I repeat...from the looks of it he seems to be both. Notice I said "seems to be." I'm trying to remain as positive as I can about all of this hoping he will make all right.

[The WidowMaker]

i am either missing something or your posts got edited. theres no wrong doing that i see other than him being delayed (which sucks but not criminal). i dont see any attempt at fraud. but then again, i think your posts must have been edited and it dont see anything about facebook????

[buickfunnycar.com]

I too just looked at his FB page and see nothing that was mentioned here...:rolleyes:

[GregWeld]

Just my .02

I've had no problems reaching Jon by phone in the last 2 days. If he doesn't pickup I've had a return call within 30min. Before someone label's me a "cheerleader" or a "fanboy" let me say that I don't know Jon anymore than anyone else on here. I have never dealt with Driverzinc, only NewGen and this is my first transaction with them.

The invoice for my wheels/tires came from NewGen, has NewGen email addresses and different contact info from anything I ever saw in here or on Driverzinc website (now taken down). I'd like to think that someone ripping me off wouldn't bother answering the phone (even after hours once). I honestly think he completely stepped away and started over until he found out Travis wasn't in for the long haul.

Does that mean I'm not worried....no. After reading this I am definitely concerned and will have to think over the weekend whether or not I am going to pull the plug. I called him because this week is the 6th week of the estimated 4-6wk production time and I wanted an update/pics/something showing some progress. While he did answer all my questions and give me an update on where everything was at he also said it would be 2 more weeks. That's what really got me concerned. I've seen a couple threads on here where 6wks turned into 12-15wks, and I don't have that kind of patience or timeline.

I'd really like to think he's just dealing with the fallout of a bad business deal, but I'm not comfortable banking my $$ on it.



SORRY, SOMEBODY HAS TO SAY IT..... Don't be an idiot. Pull the plug.


Lots and lots of good wheel manufacturers out there. You know. The kind that don't rip people off. They don't lie. They deliver when they say they will.

[chevelleshack]

I reported mine on 3/8 & the credit card company had it resolved & credited my account the 6600.00 on 3/19 . They didn't seem to have a problem with mine but it was less than the 90 days , circus started the first week of January for me .
Phil

[ssx]

Damn...I guess I got lucky. I ordered a set of the Twist Machine Bezels from Driverz...got an email from Jon to call him on his cell, which I did. He told me good timing as he was at the bank and I got my order in 4 days...A few days later and I see all of this going on...Just seems strange that his Facebook page etc would be "open" with all of this going on? Especially if this was your way to make a living the past few years...an explanation would be nice, even if it isn't what people want to hear...

[jocko124]

i wont speak on southrods dealings BUT regarding your dealings it was all aired out (both sides) and i dont know about others but my conclusion was your situation wasn't john fault at all... cheer-leading's got nothing to do with it..

You're more than welcome to your opinion. It wasn't really all aired out, I told my side of the story, Jon made a bunch of lame excuses and then the cheerleaders jumped in and trashed me for calling Jon out. A lot of members (both here and on pro-touring.com) PM'd (or called) me and shared similar experiences and thanked me for posting mine---because they were afraid to share their story for fear of being bashed by the Driverz-Inc cheerleaders. I'm amazed that after all the negative information that has come out since my original post, you or anyone else here could even begin to defend Jon or give credence to anything he has ever posted. The man is a pathological liar and a thief.

[FETorino]

I am lucky my project is moving slowly since I may have ordered a set of NewGen performance Lites and would have got caught up in this shiiii....

I feel the pain some of you are suffering. I've gotten burned a couple times by thieves only for a couple hundred bucks or less but it still sucks.

Call the CC company and open a claim. File a report with the BBB. Don't sit around and get taken.

[buickfunnycar.com]

The man is a pathological liar and a thief...

Man,those are some strong words...judge,jury,and executioner.

[jocko124]

Man,those are some strong words...judge,jury,and executioner.

That's based on my experiences with him, and I stand by it.

[John510]

If he's calling people why is he not coming on here saying what happened?

[Bryan O]

Man,those are some strong words...judge,jury,and executioner.

VERY GOOD POINT JOHN. SOMEBODY HAD TO SAY IT.

[tjbruning]

Man,those are some strong words...judge,jury,and executioner.

How many people need to get screwed over by him for this to be true in your eyes? Seems pretty cut and dry to me...

[usa-69z]

it is cut and dried..... re read my post of emails... someone takes your money, dosnt place the order ,, repeatedly tells you there coming, then says there here ready to ship.. some of you guys need a reality check,, thats a thief all day long..
and on the facebook thing , he sent me 2 PMs there yesterday and today.only because i hassled him and my other point when he was MIA he was posting family pics on there while this was going on so i knew he was reading this stuff being a computor and all. Pretty simple.

im thinking we need to all get together with some kind of register with details of moneys stolen, dates ect ,,it will hold more weight if needed by some if this goes further.Any ideas how to set that up? he needs to pay for this.

[Southrod]

it is cut and dried..... re read my post of emails... someone takes your money, dosnt place the order ,, repeatedly tells you there coming, then says there here ready to ship.. some of you guys need a reality check,, thats a thief all day long..
and on the facebook thing , he sent me 2 PMs there yesterday and today.only because i hassled him and my other point when he was MIA he was posting family pics on there while this was going on so i knew he was reading this stuff being a computor and all. Pretty simple.

im thinking we need to all get together with some kind of register with details of moneys stolen, dates ect ,,it will hold more weight if needed by some if this goes further.Any ideas how to set that up? he needs to pay for this.

Hey Gav,I tried the whole legal threat thing with him and all I got for an answer was (quote) Well at least I wont have to deal with it.

[69cortezsilver]

driverz inc/new gen wheels suck ballz

[GregWeld]

driverz inc/new gen wheels suck ballz



Well there ya have it!!!:lol:



Hey -- can you work today and get me my 9" Ford done for Rudy's Camaro?

[FETorino]

driverz inc/new gen wheels suck ballz

Maybe if they did you wouldn't feel so bad about all the money they were taking from you.

[cencalc6]

driverz inc/new gen wheels suck ballz

LMFAO! :rofl:

[dropped72ss]

Where is Jon????? Is NEW GEN taking a **** as well????

[FETorino]

Where is Jon????? Is NEW GEN taking a **** as well????

It's pretty simple.

Not proved in court but silence is acquiescence when the contract is implied and the question is asked. Jon sure is silent for someone who used to post here every day.

NewGen is Driverz, Inc, Travis was Jon but then Jon became Travis and your money became Jon's and Jason got mad because someone told everyone that Jason told him that Jon was Travis and NewGen is Driverz, Inc.

[GregWeld]

So simple a caveman can do it.

[214Chevy]

....NewGen is Driverz, Inc, Travis was Jon but then Jon became Travis and your money became Jon's and Jason got mad because someone told everyone that Jason told him that Jon was Travis and NewGen is Driverz, Inc.

Now that right there is golden folks.

[Andrew]

I've been reading these threads for the last couple hours, between this and the whole prodigy customs deal it's definitely a bit of an eye opener. I feel bad for the guys posting on protouring commenting on how sweet newgen wheels are and spending thousands with Frank, but are completely oblivious to their past dealings as they (the mods) just delete any post that questions them.
Shady business for sure. Glad to see the truth is told here.

[GregWeld]

Yeah --- and other than the poor OP (Original poster) who is going to have some issues, perhaps, getting his money back...

The rest of us have at least had some fun raggin' on these DB's :woot:

[parsonsj]

but are completely oblivious to their past dealings as they (the mods) just delete any post that questions themHave you seen the PT.com Feedback forum?

http://www.pro-touring.com/forumdisplay.php?121-Feedback

It's been in place for over a year.

[Andrew]

^ Thanks for pointing that out. I had not seen the negative feedback for driverzinc there.

I was referring more to Newgen wheels being a sponsor on protouring and threads like these - http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?88121-NewGen-New-Wheel-quot-GRIP-quot-Check-it-out!

Correct me if I am mistaken as I very well may be but the fellow "Jon" responsible for alot of the ish that happened with driverz is now running newgen? Similiar in construction when you steal so much money from home owners you just start up a new company with a new name. If I was a mod/admin of protouring I would want to have nothing to do with the character.

[rrunner68]

I have deliberated about posting in this speculation/character assassination-fest, for fear of being branded a "cheerleader" of sorts, but let me put this in a different light...

Let imagine perhaps someone was trying to run a vehicle customization/retail shop as well as starting up a wheel designing brand. After trying to compete in the Walmart based world of internet car part sales, you find yourself behind, but not screwing customers over. So you decide to split the companies (no small legal feat in CA) and find a young up and comer to take over the retail portion of the business. To your knowledge the deal is going through, bank accounts are being transferred to the new parties, and the new guy is taking orders, but not filling them, and the accounts are signed over, so you have no means of tracking or accessing the monies. After weeks of the money coming in and no parts going out, the guy cleans out the accounts and backs out of the deals. You now have a huge liability, a guy that has access to all of your assets and has been stealing from your customers for the last 3 months.
So the best thing you can do is suspend your business license so he can no longer conduct business under your or your companies name, grab a moving truck and take everything that isn't bolted down and put it in your garage before it ends up on eBay or craigslist. Then hire the best lawyer that money can buy and sit back and watch the wonderful world of the Internets tear you and your livelihood asunder.

Now I'm not saying that this is what happened, but since we are all throwing out wild accusations, I figured I'd try too.

What I can state as a FACT is that in the last 4 weeks I have bought and paid for products from JON at NEWGEN WHEELS, received all products (in person) in a timely fashion, and as recently as 2 weeks ago.

What I have seen on the forums is orders placed through Travis (a real person) or Jon (on behalf of Driverz to ensure a smooth transition of his former company) that were not filled. And a bunch of rightly pissed off people with no money and no parts. File a complaint with your CC company, and good luck in your future penny-pinching endeavors.

Just a thought. I wish all parties involved the best.

[garickman]

To your knowledge the deal is going through, bank accounts are being transferred to the new parties, and the new guy is taking orders, but not filling them, and the accounts are signed over, so you have no means of tracking or accessing the monies. After weeks of the money coming in and no parts going out, the guy cleans out the accounts and backs out of the deals. You now have a huge liability, a guy that has access to all of your assets and has been stealing from your customers for the last 3 months.
So the best thing you can do is suspend your business license so he can no longer conduct business under your or your companies name, grab a moving truck and take everything that isn't bolted down and put it in your garage before it ends up on eBay or craigslist. Then hire the best lawyer that money can buy and sit back and watch the wonderful world of the Internets tear you and your livelihood asunder.

Anything is possible, and I am not one of the people who got screwed out of money. I am just an outsider pointing out some inconsistencies to help those who did get screwed. The two problems I see with your theory are this;

1. There are several customers who ordered through Jon and paid long before Jon left the company in some cases several months who have no product and no return of their money.

2. There are customers who ordered wheels through this alleged new owner yet their paypal payments went to Jon@driverzinc.

[parsonsj]

Andrew, no problem.

As you've noticed, the YellowBullet claims about PT.com and deleted posts weren't exactly accurate. :cheers:

Anyway, NewGen's status on PT.com is under review. We'll make a decision this coming week.

jp

[69x22]

I have deliberated about posting in this speculation/character assassination-fest, for fear of being branded a "cheerleader" of sorts, but let me put this in a different light...

Let imagine perhaps someone was trying to run a vehicle customization/retail shop as well as starting up a wheel designing brand. After trying to compete in the Walmart based world of internet car part sales, you find yourself behind, but not screwing customers over. So you decide to split the companies (no small legal feat in CA) and find a young up and comer to take over the retail portion of the business. To your knowledge the deal is going through, bank accounts are being transferred to the new parties, and the new guy is taking orders, but not filling them, and the accounts are signed over, so you have no means of tracking or accessing the monies. After weeks of the money coming in and no parts going out, the guy cleans out the accounts and backs out of the deals. You now have a huge liability, a guy that has access to all of your assets and has been stealing from your customers for the last 3 months.
So the best thing you can do is suspend your business license so he can no longer conduct business under your or your companies name, grab a moving truck and take everything that isn't bolted down and put it in your garage before it ends up on eBay or craigslist. Then hire the best lawyer that money can buy and sit back and watch the wonderful world of the Internets tear you and your livelihood asunder.

Now I'm not saying that this is what happened, but since we are all throwing out wild accusations, I figured I'd try too.

What I can state as a FACT is that in the last 4 weeks I have bought and paid for products from JON at NEWGEN WHEELS, received all products (in person) in a timely fashion, and as recently as 2 weeks ago.

What I have seen on the forums is orders placed through Travis (a real person) or Jon (on behalf of Driverz to ensure a smooth transition of his former company) that were not filled. And a bunch of rightly pissed off people with no money and no parts. File a complaint with your CC company, and good luck in your future penny-pinching endeavors.

Just a thought. I wish all parties involved the best.

I bet if you were one of the ones with $6000.00 out and no money or product you wouldn't be posting this.
I placed a order at 05:00PM on wheels for my 57, called the next morning 08:00 had Jon cancel the order, only to find out 10 days later from my credit card bill that he somehow charged it, and it was still on there. Took 2 weeks and filing a dispute with my credit card company to get my money back. When I talked to him he blamed it on the transition, then he quit taking my calls. And yes I fill lucky, I would hate to try to deal with this from Australia.

[GregWeld]

File a complaint with your CC company, and good luck in your future penny-pinching endeavors.

Just a thought. I wish all parties involved the best.



WTF does "penny-pinching" have to do with this? They (the customer) would have been given a price for whatever they're buying... and they'd then send payment IN FULL... and then --- Golly gee gosh -- they'd just expect to get the products they bought AND PAID FOR...


Where did penny pinching come into it?

[usa-69z]

does anyone know who Jon would have placed my american racing wheels order with? he claims they were ordered but not paid for? this may be another untruth, but id like to call some one to check,, maybe my wheels are some where and still available? wheelpros, or american racing? its hard to find any phone contact details for any of these companys.

any one help?

Gav

[usa-69z]

yes , 'the penny pinching' comment was unwarranted ,, another 'cheerleader perhaps?

[Vegas69]

Who transfers power before the deal closes? That is the real problem.

[FETorino]

............

[The WidowMaker]

guys, unless the transfer was a lie, there is NO shady business. if he took your money with the intent to close the business then i totally agree. if he planned to transfer, thought he transfered and then travis backed out it would set anyone back. do you guys really expect him not to take orders a few months from a planned transfer? how is that supposed to be smooth?

and saying jon is travis is just plain stupid at this point. multiple people have commented that they met the guy. lets give up the bs and try and stay with the facts we have.

i only speak out since i had some first hand experience with my wheel order and working with the guy in charge of actually making them. rushforth and jon had nothing to do with my delay even though jon sold me the wheels and its rushforths company. i could have called jon all day long and bitched like others do, but it wouldnt have done any good. hes not making the wheels and hes not in anything but phone contact with the guy that is. i still dont understand why so much blame gets put on these vendors for delays. if they dont send your money off and instead pocket it or screw something up its one thing, but to answer calls all day long for something thats not your fault sucks.

i too hope jon comes on here and comments. even an excuse about lawyers would be better than nothing. and until a cc comany denies a claim, no one is out anything but time and peace. well thats unless youre like me and paid to have your wheels balanced and the fronts never got done. count me as being owed 20 bucks.

I don't think you are a cheerleader. You are a TOOL

i feel for you and i really hope you get your money back, but calling him names isnt cool here. thats what makes this site the best. we should be able to have conversations with differing opinions without all the bs that other sites allow.

[Vegas69]

To say a business is under new ownership and give them access to the money BEFORE the deal is sealed is on one person, JON. He is responsibe for protecting the assets of HIS business until he's no longer the legal owner.

Who knows that real truth but with a suspended business license, no website, no facebook account, and no response, it's not good. That I can guarantee. I have no pony in this parade but I hate to see good people get taken to the cleaners.

[The WidowMaker]

To say a business is under new ownership and give them access to the money BEFORE the deal is sealed is on one person, JON. He is responsibe for protecting the assets of HIS business until he's no longer the legal owner.

Who knows that real truth but with a suspended business license, no website, no facebook account, and no response, it's not good. That I can guarantee. I have no pony in this parade but I hate to see good people get taken to the cleaners.

ive never owned a bus or taken bus classes, but i assume thats entry level stuff right there. i too hope everyone gets every penny back and i hope guys dont get too angry at others over this. the "cheerleaders" know him better than others and are just holding out hope that this isnt what it appears. i can promise you that no one will be a cheerleader if the truth matches the accusations above.

[FETorino]

To say a business is under new ownership and give them access to the money BEFORE the deal is sealed is on one person, JON. He is responsibe for protecting the assets of HIS business until he's no longer the legal owner.

Who knows that real truth but with a suspended business license, no website, no facebook account, and no response, it's not good. That I can guarantee. I have no pony in this parade but I hate to see good people get taken to the cleaners.

Bingo. Jon's business his responsibility. His lack of public response says it all.

[rfrankb4]

Have you seen the PT.com Feedback forum?

http://www.pro-touring.com/forumdisplay.php?121-Feedback

It's been in place for over a year.

I like PT.com as well but there is little doubt that the structure of the feedback system functions to kill threads asap that might be negative about the vendors.

Between the fast thread death and being so far down the list that it is never seen I know I assumed it was not intended to be a source of serious information about vendors.

No offense intended.

I know these forums are a business and it never pays to poke at the people who pay a lot of the bill. However, as a consumer it does make it more difficult to find legitimate information when good experiences are talked about on the front page in depth and negative experiences are stored at the proverbial back of the book and kept as short as possible effectively locking threads.

[parsonsj]

Between the fast thread death and being so far down the list that it is never seen I know I assumed it was not intended to be a source of serious information about vendors.

No offense intended. You're wrong. No offense intended.

The Feedback forum functions as a place for direct interaction between consumers and vendors. It's intent is to provide a transparent place for such conversations, with a secondary effect of building a searchable database about vendors. If you have a look today, you'll see several threads about Driverz, and if you search, you'll find a dozen or more complaints over the past year.

[realcoray]

Many of the people who have had issues were well before any transfer of the company, and I certainly think it's possible Travis just backed out of the sale after probably getting so many calls and finding out how things weren't ordered, he backed out smartly.

[rfrankb4]

You're wrong. No offense intended.

The Feedback forum functions as a place for direct interaction between consumers and vendors. It's intent is to provide a transparent place for such conversations, with a secondary effect of building a searchable database about vendors. If you have a look today, you'll see several threads about Driverz, and if you search, you'll find a dozen or more complaints over the past year.

That is very possible. Intent i always tricky to make a guess at and why I only stated that as my opinion based on the observation.


However, the functional effect of tilting the playing field in favor of discussion of the deals that do work while minimizing discussion of failures still holds true. I again admit that is a difficult thing to balance in the shoes of someone running the website.

[usa-69z]

guys, unless the transfer was a lie, there is NO shady business. if he took your money with the intent to close the business then i totally agree. if he planned to transfer, thought he transfered and then travis backed out it would set anyone back. do you guys really expect him not to take orders a few months from a planned transfer? how is that supposed to be smooth?

and saying jon is travis is just plain stupid at this point. multiple people have commented that they met the guy. lets give up the bs and try and stay with the facts we have.

i only speak out since i had some first hand experience with my wheel order and working with the guy in charge of actually making them. rushforth and jon had nothing to do with my delay even though jon sold me the wheels and its rushforths company. i could have called jon all day long and bitched like others do, but it wouldnt have done any good. hes not making the wheels and hes not in anything but phone contact with the guy that is. i still dont understand why so much blame gets put on these vendors for delays. if they dont send your money off and instead pocket it or screw something up its one thing, but to answer calls all day long for something thats not your fault sucks.

i too hope jon comes on here and comments. even an excuse about lawyers would be better than nothing. and until a cc comany denies a claim, no one is out anything but time and peace. well thats unless youre like me and paid to have your wheels balanced and the fronts never got done. count me as being owed 20 bucks.



i feel for you and i really hope you get your money back, but calling him names isnt cool here. thats what makes this site the best. we should be able to have conversations with differing opinions without all the bs that other sites allow.

i still dont get how some people still give him(Jon) the benifit of the doubt ? how cut and dried is Jon Henson emailing me back and saying he has the wheels there in the shop ready to ship (the week before he said he was driving to AR to pick them up !),, but he hasnt shipped. he took my money 2 months before this and made me believe they were coming. No money No product. he says he dosnt have my wheels or my money.. you work that into your doubts,, these are facts i can backup with dated, hard documentation. Theres more i have taken in private msgs from others, but not my place to disclose.

[Flash68]

A couple of my thoughts since anyone and everyone is throwing down. :)

1. Some people are not meant to run businesses. Ever. Some are meant to work for others (absolutely nothing wrong with that).

2. I do not know or claim to know what happened with Driverz/Jon/Travis/NewGenWheels... but I got 2 key words for ya'all... AMATEUR HOUR!!!

3. Lat G runs this forum better than anyone out there with regard to sponsor management. The PT forum runs theirs like they need the sponsors' money (not saying they actually do).

[usa-69z]

another thing ,, can someone tell where he would order his AR rims from? i need contact asap? someone should know..:(

[69cortezsilver]

Not only does this Jon character seem like A downright thief...I'm going to go ahead and call him a COWARD! guy needs to man up and take accountability for the money he has deliberately ripped off from hard working car enthusiasts! I'm glad I hadnt bought anything from the clown..but my younger brother did and had he been ripped off..I'd already be on my way to corona to "physically" collect my loses! Cheers

[JustinB]

I hope I am not over stepping my boundaries here but I want to try and clear some things I have seen up close and personal over the last few months. Yes I worked at Driverz and left the company end of November. It was just not working out. That being said, there is absolutely nothing I can do to help get people any money back. Wish I could and I do feel bad for people who are currently involved.

Jon is not Travis and Travis is not Jon. That is complete non-sense. All I know is Travis was committed to buying to Driverz Inc earlier in the year, came into the office, posted he was the owner, become the owner, then decided he wanted out after a lot of money was committed to the cause. Jon made some bad business decisions and is paying the cost for putting his trust into people who turned out to not be trust worthy. Unfortunately, customers who had money spent with the company are also having to deal with the fall out. Driverz Inc is no more and in its wake Jon stands to lose everything from his personal car to his house. I know he was doing everything he could to fill orders but literally bled the well dry. I am not even sure Jon can post anything due to lawyers being involved. It a freakin mess. I am not making excuses just posting what I know.

If you have an order in, charge it back. Pretty cut and dry. Charge it back.

[rrunner68]

I'd apologize for calling the guy a tool if it was about his opinion. It wasn't.

When you dismount your diatribe about poor john by calling everyone penny pinchers it isn't about opinions it's about being a tool.

To be clear I didn't get taken by this scam but I've been burned by similar characters.

Just remember caveat emptor

The penny pinching comment was in fact my opinion on poor purchasing practices. I choose to deal with local vendors whenever possible, and when ever I did business with Jon, it was to buy New Gen products. If that is not feasible, I buy direct from the manufacturer. If they do not facilitate that business model, I shop elsewhere. I'll pay a premium to eliminate a middleman. So yes, in my opinion, the people who sit around on the internet, waiting for the next "we've found some random excuse to undercut our competitors to try and make a buck by selling bulk sale!" to buy a product they obviously can't afford are "penny pinchers".

As you put, "buyer beware." Which is funny, because legally, that has not been the precedent in this country since tort law was established. However, seeing as how you continue to inject yourself into an issue where as you have yourself admitted; you have no personal vested interest I'm sure you'll have some quip response that trys to pick out some minuscule and irrelevant portion of my post to try to validate your irrelevant posting into this issue.

Carry on guttersnipe!

[Stuart Adams]

I would be scared to death to have another person's hard earned money. Woof.

That would be very scary and stressful.

[FETorino]

...............

[camcojb]

let's stop the personal shots so I don't have to edit the entire thread. ;)

[usa-69z]

I hope I am not over stepping my boundaries here but I want to try and clear some things I have seen up close and personal over the last few months. Yes I worked at Driverz and left the company end of November. It was just not working out. That being said, there is absolutely nothing I can do to help get people any money back. Wish I could and I do feel bad for people who are currently involved.

Jon is not Travis and Travis is not Jon. That is complete non-sense. All I know is Travis was committed to buying to Driverz Inc earlier in the year, came into the office, posted he was the owner, become the owner, then decided he wanted out after a lot of money was committed to the cause. Jon made some bad business decisions and is paying the cost for putting his trust into people who turned out to not be trust worthy. Unfortunately, customers who had money spent with the company are also having to deal with the fall out. Driverz Inc is no more and in its wake Jon stands to lose everything from his personal car to his house. I know he was doing everything he could to fill orders but literally bled the well dry. I am not even sure Jon can post anything due to lawyers being involved. It a freakin mess. I am not making excuses just posting what I know.

If you have an order in, charge it back. Pretty cut and dry. Charge it back.

Justin , thanx for chiming in here,, no one will blame you for what has happended but i dont think any of us feel sorry for jon,, his house, his car ,he should do some time in my eyes.. its very personel for me as he lied continuosly to myself on more than one occasion.. so will you reveal to me where driverz ordered there rims for AR from? wheelpros or AR direct? i need to know to see if they were 'built' ?

[Vegas69]

I hope I am not over stepping my boundaries here but I want to try and clear some things I have seen up close and personal over the last few months. Yes I worked at Driverz and left the company end of November. It was just not working out. That being said, there is absolutely nothing I can do to help get people any money back. Wish I could and I do feel bad for people who are currently involved.

Jon is not Travis and Travis is not Jon. That is complete non-sense. All I know is Travis was committed to buying to Driverz Inc earlier in the year, came into the office, posted he was the owner, become the owner, then decided he wanted out after a lot of money was committed to the cause. Jon made some bad business decisions and is paying the cost for putting his trust into people who turned out to not be trust worthy. Unfortunately, customers who had money spent with the company are also having to deal with the fall out. Driverz Inc is no more and in its wake Jon stands to lose everything from his personal car to his house. I know he was doing everything he could to fill orders but literally bled the well dry. I am not even sure Jon can post anything due to lawyers being involved. It a freakin mess. I am not making excuses just posting what I know.

If you have an order in, charge it back. Pretty cut and dry. Charge it back.

Justin and Jon are good buddies. If this doesn't seal the deal, I don't know what to tell you.

[Vegas69]

Justin , thanx for chiming in here,, no one will blame you for what has happended but i dont think any of us feel sorry for jon,, his house, his car ,he should do some time in my eyes.. its very personel for me as he lied continuosly to myself on more than one occasion.. so will you reveal to me where driverz ordered there rims for AR from? wheelpros or AR direct? i need to know to see if they were 'built' ?

You are chasing a ghost.

[FETorino]

let's stop the personal shots so I don't have to edit the entire thread. ;)

No need for additional work on my part. I deleted it.

[rrunner68]

No need for additional work on my part. I deleted it.

FET,
I refuse to believe that we haven't crossed paths at an event before. We seriously need to hang out. Next time I'm in your neck of the woods we need to get a drink.

[Ron in SoCal]

FET,
I refuse to believe that we haven't crossed paths at an event before. We seriously need to hang out. Next time I'm in your neck of the woods we need to get a drink.

Dan the man...:cheers:

[usa-69z]

Justin and Jon are good buddies. If this doesn't seal the deal, I don't know what to tell you.

Todd , im well aware of this , just hoping Justin can let me know who they order from? driverz and Jon are toast ,, deal is sealed ..

it shouldnt be a secret??

[FETorino]

FET,
I refuse to believe that we haven't crossed paths at an event before. We seriously need to hang out. Next time I'm in your neck of the woods we need to get a drink.

Sounds more productive than this thread. :cheers:

[Vegas69]

Todd , im well aware of this , just hoping Justin can let me know who they order from? driverz and Jon are toast ,, deal is sealed ..

it shouldnt be a secret??

My point was the order likely wasn't placed. Sorry man. :(

[John510]

I like how the answer is just "do a chargeback"

Uhh no how about fraud and grand theft = felony

[GregWeld]

I like how the answer is just "do a chargeback"

Uhh no how about fraud and grand theft = felony

Hard to prove "intent". Even though many here would most likely vote to convict!


The problem is getting blood out of a turnip... and the litigation costs (unless the DA was to press - which they wouldn't).

[JustinB]

I like how the answer is just "do a chargeback"

Uhh no how about fraud and grand theft = felony

Do you have an order in with Driverz or are you one the many on here jumping in just to pile on? I check out once the token I am driving out myself to "collect" even though I am not one of the customers to get burned guy chimes in. You guys can threaten law suits, felonies, and BS wannabe tough guy threats all you want, it means nothing. If you are involved and have not charged back your card yet, your a knucklehead.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Wow...just wow! :wow:

[GregWeld]

I have no vested interest in this sordid affair at all -- and probably shouldn't even comment -- except for the fact that as a "businessman" it's of interest.


It's a pretty well known fact that Driverz Inc was having some "issues" with timely delivery etc well before the announced sale....

It was then announced that there was, in fact, a sale of the business.

It was then acknowledged by the new "owner" that, in fact, there was new ownership, and that everything was going to change for the better.

Now we're at the point of missing funds - missing goods - and "the owners" are missing.

Perhaps sites like this need to introduce new "regulations" on vendors? Two complaints and you're on probation - a third and you're O U T.

So many good vendors can operate for years and there's never ONE complaint... And that's as it should be. Otherwise it's only a matter of time before a member gets whacked. Driverz is a classic example.

[Tony_SS]

I think the forums should be open and transparent.. if a customer has a complaint, they should be allowed to air it and the vendor should be allowed to respond and NO one else allowed to 'pile on' or give their .02.

That way buyers can have both sides of the story and be allowed to make up their own mind, without having the forum owner and mods trying to play sherlock holmes and police men.

Because as I suspected, it looks like Jon stole a bunch of money from people and gave them the runaround. If those deals were made public, Jon would have had to address them out in the open. You can only have so many complaints before people will stop trusting you and your reputation will actually reveal itself instead of being a myth.

[Tony_SS]

.....

[The WidowMaker]

i unfortunately think that some people are afraid to air their complaints about some of the well known vendors. theres no way that the guys on the left are perfect every time. what matters is they are perfect most of the time. with 3 strikes and youre out, i think most on the right would be gone.

[usa-69z]

theres a LOT of editing going on ! i read something one day and half hour later they take pieces out... the bit about Jon could lose everything, his house, his car,:rofl: ect was a classic. Im getting plenty of Moderator support too..I think we should be able to say what we want unless its personel attacks between members.

[camcojb]

theres a LOT of editing going on ! i read something one day and half hour later they take pieces out... the bit about Jon could lose everything, his house, his car,:rofl: ect was a classic. Im getting plenty of Moderator support too..I think we should be able to say what we want unless its personel attacks between members.

I asked that the personal attacks stop. Any other editing is on whomever decided to do that.

The problem with these threads has been presented time after time. In reality the individuals who have had experiences with Drivers Inc directly should be putting their feedback in the feedback forum, not here. I would much prefer that. The only reason the thread has not been locked is because we have so many members with issues, and I was hoping that Jon would fill us in. Doesn't look like that will be happening.

[camcojb]

got a pm back from Jon:

Over the past 6 years I've met and helped a lot of you with your wheels, and your cars, and have made some great friends along the way. It is with a very heavy heart that I have to type this and let you all know that Driverz Inc is now forced to close.
Unfortunately, due to a bad business deal between myself, and Travis, it left me and the company in a debt it could not bounce back from. There are many contributing factors to the bad deal, which are to remain between Travis and I, and any further litigation that may take place in the future. Discussing that in an open forum or a chat room is not something we can do, nor is it a good idea.
There has been some left field accusations regarding if Travis was even a real person. Yes, he is a real person, that's assanine to say the least. People even met him at RTTC this year, and have talked to him, and worked with him in the past. Not sure why I'm even responding to that, but I guess it had to be said.
There has also been some claims that Driverz Inc was not a legit corporation. Of course it was, it is registered with a Federal Tax ID 43-2111293 since 2006 when I started the business. As of earlier this year, the corporation that is registered with the California Secretary of State suspended the corporation because it owed its 700 dollar corporation fee to the State, along with a Corporate Minutes and Statement of Information. All of which were filled out, with the new owners name, and were to be filed. Driverz Inc is now CLOSED, and will no longer be doing any business.
There is also a claim that NewGen Wheels, LLC is not a legit business as well. In response, It was filed with Legal Zoom, in December of last year, and as of January has its own Federal Tax ID 45-4298410 If you login to the California Secretary of State website here: http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/cbs.aspx , you can see its been registered, and am now waiting on the Statement of Information office to document who the owners are, etc. (This office is 6 months behind, and you can see that here: http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/be/processing-times.htm)
Because of the open debts that I personally signed a guarantee for, for Travis, and because of the debt accrued over the past 4 months of bills not being paid, nobody at the helm, and because my name is what is left on the majority of the shop's bills as a personal guarantor, I have been forced to also file personal bankruptcy. So for all of the conspirators who think I have money hidden in my mattress, you are greatly mistaken. I'd want nothing more than to re-fi the house, or liquidate any personal assets to cover the debt owed by Driverz Inc, but I have nothing left fellas, over the years I've sold cars, re-financed cars, re-financed my parents house, borrowed from Dad's life insurance, sold anything I could to do what it took to at least make sure customers got what they ordered, but the debt on top of the open orders is whats now forcing me to do what I have to, which I wish I didn't. Over the past two weeks, we've had to move out of our shop, and make legal arrangements to first cover my family, and to make sure we were not saying anything we couldn't at the time, and to seek legal representation to help us through what is going to happen from here on in.
If anyone has not received their open orders that were paid to Driverz, Inc, you have the option of contacting your crediting agency. They are your legal protection, and can credit back your credit card after filing a dispute and some paperwork. That is your way of taking care of you. It may be a minor inconvenience, but it is there to help you. Many of you I've already called and said the exact same thing too. Some of you didn't want to listen, and I can't help that, and some of you said you were already doing so, regardless, some of you will at least note I tried to call you tell you what to do. To the super pissed guy who sent a certified letter to my Mom's house, its not going to change the facts at this time that is that Driverz Inc, and Jon Henson are broke. I suggest doing as what was stated a few sentences ago, and order your parts direct from the vendor.

It is to be very clear that NewGen Wheels, LLC is a completely separate entity and business entirely. I realize that moving forward it will only hurt because of it being connected to Driverz Inc, and myself, however, it is a separate entity that is still producing a product and its owners are doing what we can to keep it moving forward. It may take a LONG time for it to regain a good name, or any sort of trust in the market place, but we'll keep moving forward, even if its only for close customers and friends. All open NewGen orders, that were paid to NewGen Wheels, are being processed, although some have been delayed due to the fore mentioned. If you have any questions regarding NewGen Wheels, or your open order with NewGen Wheels, or if you paid Driverz Inc for NewGen Wheels, please contact me at 951-254-3039.
Phone calls and/or emails will be answered in as timely a fashion as possible, although a little slower due to the fore mentioned. I will not be on the forums for awhile after this, as I obviously must dedicate time to the matters at hand, so any PM's that go unanswered please pick up the phone, or send an email. Any responses to the above statement can be answered via phone or email as well.

For what its worth, my sincerest apologies for all those who are caught up in this horrible situation, and I wish that things did not work out this way. Its is unfortunate for all parties involved, well, almost all parties involved, and I hope that most of you take the time to look at this situation objectively and understand that their are a lot of contributing factors that went into this the final outcome. I'm not a member of all the forums people are posting on, nor am I aware of all the threads so I ask that those of you who can, please re-post. Thank you.

[John510]

Do you have an order in with Driverz or are you one the many on here jumping in just to pile on? I check out once the token I am driving out myself to "collect" even though I am not one of the customers to get burned guy chimes in. You guys can threaten law suits, felonies, and BS wannabe tough guy threats all you want, it means nothing. If you are involved and have not charged back your card yet, your a knucklehead.


You should know I called you everyday for months.

[raguemoe]

Well, like I told Jon the last time we spoke. A "man" does what he says he is going to do and conducts himself with integrity. If you mess up you clean up your mess & don't blame everyone else for your mistakes. It sounds like he has been holding on by a string for awhile and in my opinion should have just closed his doors and not put guys like me through the ringer dealing with him!

I'm out 6 months w/o my car and about $1k, and he still acted like he did me a favor. So, to all the guys still supporting Jon, it simply means you never had a deal go sideways with him and deal with the incompetence.

Anyways, nice to see he's moving on with Newgen and leaving all this in the past????

Btw-My issue was a incorrectly done suspension install (paid for 6+ months ago) so I'm SOL, but if anyone needs additional info from me to pursue legal and/or criminal charges they are welcome to PM me regarding my situation. As I've kept all emails, text, invoices etc....from my dealings with Jon.

[BDAZSVT]

I dont see a lot of New Gen wheels selling after this,,,

[JustinB]

You should know I called you everyday for months.

ok. I remember your Fesler wheels about a year ago before I left so I will take that as a no, you do not have an open order and are piling on. Just trying to figure out who is legit and who is bored at work.

[GregWeld]

ok. I remember your Fesler wheels about a year ago before I left so I will take that as a no, you do not have an open order and are piling on. Just trying to figure out who is legit and who is bored at work.



I haven't worked for 21 years....


:woot:

[camcojb]

I haven't worked for 21 years....


:woot:you're a lot smarter than most of us. :lol:

[Andrew]

JustinB, Anyone who has been left hanging has been told you are sol. Just file a chargeback with your credit card company and hope for the best. Coming in here and saying I lost $XXXX.XX is adding to the thread how? This thread is more like a proverbial watercooler. We are all apart of the communities and forums where this vendor was and is currently conducting his sales. I don't see how members don't have the right to post their opinions on the matter. Call it what you will, piling on or just simply speaking their minds.

I've been following this as I was close to spending quite a bit of money with Jon on some forgelines and to loose that money and simply be told file a chargeback would just be ridiculous. It's not a matter of Jon not fulfilling orders. He has been proven to be lying about picking up orders and saying they've shipped then they haven't and on and on. All of this not just at the end of the company when he might not have had his finger on the pulse anymore but months prior.

Well, like I told Jon the last time we spoke. A
Anyways, nice to see he's moving on with Newgen and leaving all this in the past????


Thank you, that's exactly what I was thinking reading through Jon's statement.

The best part of the whole thing was when he said if you bought anything from driverz charge it back. However if you bought newgen wheels through driverz then he is going to help you get the wheels? What in the world? He says he is going bankrupt and didn't pocket anybodies money. Last time I check when someone buys something from you they aren't just paying to keep your lights on, they are buying a tangible product.

It's just mind blowing Jon thinks he can continue to run a business in the community after scamming so many people for their money whether it was intentional or not. I'm glad to see newgen is no longer a sponsor on protouring.

[JustinB]

Andrew I get and understand why people are upset. I am just trying to make it very clear that the people involved need to get the ball rolling and contact their cc companies and charge the purchase back. Yelling on the forums is not going to get your money back. There is no money to be had. I know. I almost put money up to cover the exsisting orders and buy the company a week ago. Driverz is dead and a lawsuit or judgement will just get buried in a Bk.

[214Chevy]

I personally went to my bank today to do the paperwork for my chargeback. I feel sorry for the people who are out of a thousand dollars plus. Again, mine was only $80. I have one last thing to say and I'm done. Rather Driverz, Inc or New Gen, it's funny how Driverz, Inc was sold months ago to Travis. But, when I called the number on the signature of the Driverz, Inc thread promoting the aluminum lug nuts, Jon answered the phone and took my order and my credit card statement says New Gen Wheels on 3-17-12. Hmmmm....!!

[CornHusker4Life]

What scares me the most is the ripple effect. I hope people continue to buy products/materials from the small businesses of this hobby/lifestyle. Just because this business was poorly handled does not mean that all small businesses are like this particular one. I hope people continue to support the "GOOD" small businesses because that is what makes this country great.:thumbsup:

[coolwelder62]

What scares me the most is the ripple effect. I hope people continue to buy products/materials from the small businesses of this hobby/lifestyle. Just because this business was poorly handled does not mean that all small businesses are like this particular one. I hope people continue to support the "GOOD" small businesses because that is what makes this country great.:thumbsup:Thank You.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Tony_SS]

I dont see a lot of New Gen wheels selling after this,,,

It definitely won't help, but don't be surprised if NewGen does well for awhile... people still fall for those Nigerian scams even. :unibrow:

[RECOVERY ROOM]

I haven't worked for 21 years....


:woot:

Thats because know one will hire you...:D

[214Chevy]

I haven't worked for 21 years....


:woot:

See there Greg, now I know you are filthy, stupid rich.:beavis: :beavis:

[John510]

Im curious about the million dollar question...

Where did the money go people paid ?

[Stuart Adams]

Im curious about the million dollar question...

Where did the money go people paid ?

There money bought someone's else some wheels that were placed previously. Not to add fuel to this but it would be a pisser if I know that I bought parts for someone else and never got mine.

Stay with the proven big hitters, like Greg with stocks.

[214Chevy]

Man, my bank works fast. Filled out the paperwork for my charge back about 5pm yesterday and my money was back in my bank account today about 4pm. Now, that's what I call customer service.:clap: :clap:

[usa-69z]

Man, my bank works fast. Filled out the paperwork for my charge back about 5pm yesterday and my money was back in my bank account today about 4pm. Now, that's what I call customer service.:clap: :clap:

mine takes 6 weeks to investigate ! :wow: (downunder)

[jocko124]

mine takes 6 weeks to investigate ! :wow: (downunder)

Man, dealing with this from so far away has got to be super frustrating. I hope it all works out for you.

[SLO_Z28]

I dont see a lot of New Gen wheels selling after this,,,

Boyd Coddington defrauded the State of California and investors, creditors, and customers out of millions of dollars, and did it multiple times and people still buy his wheels. As much as the pro-touring market likes to think that were a big market, we aren't, and his company run right will have no problem making money.

[booah]

Its a good day. I live in Perth, australia and only a couple of days before all this happened I placed an order with Jon for the aluminium wheel nuts. paid by CC . Got home from work today and there's my nuts on the door step. haven't checked the size yet but at least they made it here.

[214Chevy]

Man, dealing with this from so far away has got to be super frustrating. I hope it all works out for you.

X2!!!

[71RS/SS396]

Its a good day. Got home from work today and there's my nuts on the door step.

Sorry booah but that's some funny signature material there! :D :D

[GregWeld]

See there Greg, now I know you are filthy, stupid rich.:beavis: :beavis:



This is flagrantly untrue! I have very good sanitary habits!