Video clip of new GM A body chassis and 1st gen F car chassis

[V8TV]

Here's a link to a clip of a new chassis that Schwartz Extreme Performance is marketing... it's a complete bolt-on replacement using racecar suspension for '64-'72 GM A bodies. The 1st gen F body Camaro / Firebird / Nova etc. version is next. They've also got a '67-'70 Mustang and early GM truck version. We shot a piece for our show and thought it was cool. In fact, we're going to use the F-car version on our Royal Sport Camaro project. The best part about this chassis is that the parts are lo-buck but high performance.

Here's a lo-res (4mb): http://www.v8tv.net/V8TVSchwartzChassis1.a.wmv

Here's a hi-res(30+mb): http://www.v8tv.net/V8TVSchwartzPrecisionChassis.wmv

Whatcha think?

[Blown353]

Need pricing. Now.

:yes:

[JamesJ]

$2395

[Musclerodz]

That chassis has been discussed here before. Here is the thread (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=1973&highlight=chassis) . It was also discussed at PT.com as well. It was being built by Pathfinder Chassis, but I did not see it on their website any longer. Maybe Jeff should chime in and update us.

Mike

[Blown353]

Oh, duh... that's why it seemed sort of familiar!

I initially read the post and thought "Schwartz-designed"... now that I've read it again I see "Schwartz-marketed."

Knowing Jeff's propensity for things that handle well maybe he can chime in with some real-world info on it as we really gave it a thumbs-down last time from a "picture review" standpoint.

[XcYZ]

Kevin, are you guys planning on doing any track events at Road America? :unibrow:

[jeff s]

This is not the same chassis on that old thread from last year.
I was involved in the design of this new chassis.
We are marketing / selling them.
We do have the fabrication facilities to manufacture stuff like this and I have 26 years of production manufacturing / fabrication experience. Like DSE, ATS and others some of our products like this one and our cast twin turbo manifolds may be manufactured by others.
Many of the features are highlighted in the video. 140 lbs lighter than stock, more torsional rigidity, loads of clearance for headers, etc.
I'm really excited about this chassis. We also have a full frame available for 67-70 Mustangs and are working on the 1st gen F body, Camaro. Also in the works are G body GM. The Royal Purple 69 Camaro will be the first one to get the F Body unit, It'll be at SEMA.
If you have any concerns just email or call me and I'll address them.
Thanks
Jeff
www.schwartzperformance.com

[big3protourer]

jeff,
what did you build that chassis for?

[Ummgawa]

Jeff

I was going to run a twin turbo set up on my 69 Camaro Speedster vert project but ditched it due to the fact that I was concerned about chassis flex (serious chassis flex). will the full frame allow me to run twins without having to run elaborate roll cage for stiffness? I really need to talk to you.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Jeff, your really doing a great job with presentation. Congratulations on the press.

[Blown353]

Jeff, one thing that I see that concerns me is I don't see a really beefy crossmember under the engine to keep the frame rails from bending in under cornering loads and over sharp bumps. It looks to me like the front frame bending rigidity could be greatly improved by using a motor plate as a stressed member tied into the frame rails via additional brackets under the shock hoops and shear pins between the motor plate and brackets.

I am not asking this (or the following questions) to nitpick your product but I am asking as a potential customer (and an engineer) who doesn't like a "half-assed" product, if you'll pardon the term. I have a lot of faith since you were involved in the design but am not willing to dive in without more data.

Some other questions I have...

Front suspension numbers... can you post them? (FRCH, RC migration, camber gain in bump, etc.) I have another suspension setup planned for my stock frame using some Coleman bits and I'd like to make a baseline comparision to your offering. Based on rack, LCA, and steering arm positioning it looks like bump steer will be next to nothing on your frame. Also, what's the recommended wheel backspacing for say a 9.5" wide front wheel?

How's the angle-of-attack getting from the steering rack to a steering column in the factory position? Any oddball u-joint combinations or intermediate guides needed?

What were the reasons for keeping a C4L rear suspension setup... was this primarily chosen for packaging reasons to keep the stock floorpan intact? Any tunability provisions? And better yet... could you offer the setup with just the lower links in place so I could add a PHB/Watts and fab my own upper link provisions (sacrificing the center of the rear seat and floorpan of course) for a 3-link setup? Also, it looks to be real tight for over-the-axle exhaust with as far as the upper links are positioned on the rear end... how's the clearance?

The front swaybar links look like they may impede the wheels at full lock. How does the turning circle of your frame compared to a stock setup?

How is exhaust clearance with all the tubular crossmembers under the floorpan? Room for an X-pipe? What size pipes can be snaked between the frame and the floorpan?

How does the stock radiator support fit with the forward-most tube spanning the front frame rails? Are there provisions for the factory bumper brackets on the front frame rails?

I think that's it for now.

If you've covered all the bases I think it will sell very well especially at the price point it is being offered at.

Troy

[V8TV]

Scott-

We're working out our calendar now... this chassis is intriguing from our standpoint in the sense that the F body version will bring a turn-key high-performance platform without us having to engineer the whole thing ourselves.

Once our Camaro is together, we plan on airing a complete road / track evaluation of the car along with tuning sessions... motor tuning, chassis tuning... the whole shot. We realize that the car isn't finished if it's just bolted together. Perhaps we'll do some of that at Road America.

Right now, we have to concentrate on getting the car together, but rest assured, we'll post all the numbers as we get 'em. :thumbsup:

- KO

[Ummgawa]

Ya know Troy, I was going to ask the same questions but, you beat me to it. :yes:

[jeff s]

Troy,
There are 2) 2" round tubes tying the rails under the engine. Yes, the engine is a stressed member as it mounts solidly to the frame rails at the upper control arm area. The front frame rails will not bend under cornering forces.
I don't recall exact roll center height or roll center change as I wasn't involved in that area of the design. The camber gain is about .75 degree/ inch. (standard coilovers have about 3.5" total travel.) Backspacing is dependent on a lot of things, like ride height, body style, etc. There are about 10 cars under construction with this chassis now so more info will become available. I'd guess about 5" backspace on a 9.5 wheel. Steering shaft: If you want everything out of the way 3 u-joints and one heim joint guide should be used. You may be able to get by with 2 joints depending on engine and steering column used.
We can position the rear links at whatever angle the customer wants or can add adjustment holes. It could be modified for a 3 link with watts or panhard.
There is plenty of clearance for a 3" exhaust to go over the axle with our standard rear suspension.
Exhaust ground clearance depends on how low you set up the car.
We'll use 3" oval pipe for this air ride equiped one.
Steering lock is same as stock. There's more than an inch of clearance to the sway bar link with 255 tires we had on for the shoot.
Radiator core support bolts to the chassis with out any interference of the front tube.
Bumper brackets will need to be fitted after the body is installed.
To quote Herb Adams "suspension design is a compomise that requires evaluation of all the factors". I'll also add there's personal preference on what an individual likes. I personally like some scrub radius as I like the way the car turns in to a corner.
We can custom build a chassis that is perfect to the specifications an individual wants, but it may be a bit more than $2395.
Thanks
Jeff

[Blown353]

Jeff, thanks for clearing things up.

Think you could do some digging and come back with the actual "out of the box" front suspension numbers? That would go a long way towards helping me make a decision.

Also, concerning header clearance-- will off the shelf a-body headers fit? How about headers for other chassis? Off the shelf A-body headers tend to really limit your oil pan choices... if the chassis would accomodate say F-body headers that would really open up the oilpan options (namely a CV 1080LTRR, and there's no way in hell I could fit one around my current Hooker Super Comps.)

You mentioned exhaust ground clearance. Does this mean you need to run the exhaust under the tubular x-members rather than between the floorpan and the x-members?

I'm sure more questions will come up, and I'd prefer to see them centralized in one thread to have all the knowledge/info in one spot for everyone to reference.

Troy

[1970cuda]

looks like he has a lot of options availible (coils-air ride, baer etc). Should be able to make everyone happy in some way.

[Blown353]

Jeff, one more question in addition to what I posted above:

Do you have a suggested parts list of what is required/recommended if you buy just the bare frame? I'd like to see what is sourced and spec'd for the suspension components, steering rack, etc.

Troy

[TravisB]

waht would the price be as shown.....minus wheels and tires of course

[jeff s]

Yea, we can supply a parts / supplier list with a bare chassis order.
The rack is from Sweet Mfg, rearend is from Winters, sway bars Speedway Engr, Spindles, brake rotors are Coleman.
The only things you need to order from us is the chassis and control arms, about $2800. I'd actually prefer I you bought direct from the suppliers on the rest of the items.

As shown minus wheels approx $8300, without adding everything up.

thanks
Jeff S

[1970cuda]

http://www.schwartzperformance.com/other%20projects%20photos/64frotout.jpg