Radiators?

[KPC67]

I am currently looking into radiators for my car. I am kind of leaning towards the autorad setup. I have zero experience with this kind of thing and I know some of you are using them. I would like to hear your thoughts.

[69znc]

It depends on the engine and what demands. I run hot big blocks. I had a Davis, dual fan and it was excellent. I just put in a bigger engine and I changed to an AutoRad. THe ONLY reason was the last percentage is more focus on presentation than I personally think Davis is. Now if I was racing or make tremendous off road demands I probably would have stated with Davis. But I went 1.5 tubing and dual viper fans and the more polished look of AutoRad. It will be plaenty for my road racing and showing usages. Both do cost but it is a critical part of the equation!

[214Chevy]

I vote AutoRad. I had a Ron Davis with my 600 hp 509 BBC and it was great. I loved it. The only reason I'm switching to an AutoRad is because I wanted a new radiator with my LS swap and wanted the top neck on the other side. I know crazy, huh, to spend that much money for another radiator because of the neck. Also, I wanted the aluminum radiator support too. Both are pricey and are of great quality.

[KPC67]

It depends on the engine and what demands. I run hot big blocks. I had a Davis, dual fan and it was excellent. I just put in a bigger engine and I changed to an AutoRad. THe ONLY reason was the last percentage is more focus on presentation than I personally think Davis is. Now if I was racing or make tremendous off road demands I probably would have stated with Davis. But I went 1.5 tubing and dual viper fans and the more polished look of AutoRad. It will be plaenty for my road racing and showing usages. Both do cost but it is a critical part of the equation!

I plan on putting it in front of a 454 ls7, I am think 700 hp should be realistic? I am not sure if I should go with the bigger tubing.
Are the viper fans what comes standard with the auto rad? I noticed they have two different sized fans on the camaro setup. presentation is going to be a consideration for me as well, personally I am not a big fan of their close out panel.

I vote AutoRad. I had a Ron Davis with my 600 hp 509 BBC and it was great. I loved it. The only reason I'm switching to an AutoRad is because I wanted a new radiator with my LS swap and wanted the top neck on the other side. I know crazy, huh, to spend that much money for another radiator because of the neck. Also, I wanted the aluminum radiator support too. Both are pricey and are of great quality.

I don't think that is crazy, I want both necks on the rh side as well

[GregWeld]

I'm running an AutoRad in my Nomad - with the full core support and dual fans etc... The workmanship (mine is polished) is far superior to any other radiator I've ever owned. Period. It's work of art.

[Musclerodz]

PRC radiators are great, never had a heating issue, and cheaper than most other high end units. If your wanting the core support as well, the extra money for Autorad is worth it. You won't find a nicer part and also no issues

[Blake Foster]

I am with Mike PRC has been good to us, have used Ron Davis as well

[KPC67]

I have not looked into PRC at all, I will check them out.

[chicane]

I being more of a function over form kinda guy... have more than less leaned toward C&R because of their heat exchangers, however, you can't really go wrong with Davis or DeWitts either.

[KPC67]

I being more of a function over form kinda guy... have more than less leaned toward C&R because of their heat exchangers, however, you can't really go wrong with Davis or DeWitts either.

A quick google search took me to the C&R website, but I don't understand the heat exchanger? aren't all radiators technically a heat exchangers?

[chicane]

A quick google search took me to the C&R website, but I don't understand the heat exchanger? aren't all radiators technically a heat exchangers?

Yes Kevin, technically correct. I should have expounded on my use of 'heat exchangers' when talking about engine cooling specifically.

The following pictures are what I would consider my 'normal' application in cooling... this is actually what I talked CarlC into doing (I'm really good at spending his hard earned money.) I typically like to package both engine cooling and oil cooling for the numerous and mutual benefits. I have used this set up to cool and control the cooling of 850-1000HP use in places like the desert southwest (Phoenix Az and Las Vegas Nv, etc.)

This utilizes a 13 plate heat exchanger for engine oil cooling... however, it works almost too good... and I would recommend the use of a oil thermostat as to not over cool the engine oil.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/chicane67/Radlhrear.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/chicane67/Radlhreartank.jpg

[Vegas69]

I tried the heat exchanger setup on my big block(666hp) and it wasn't up to snuff with a stock width radiator core and the most extreme conditions. (Road racing sessions) I've since separated the oil and water cooling by going to an air oil cooler. It's made a big difference in temps but I haven't been back on the track. I think a heat exchanger could possibly work with the additional width of the autorad set up and larger fans. Big blocks make BIG heat. :unibrow: I went with the heat exchanger to help get the oil up to temp faster. It worked but ultimately overworked the cooling system. If you don't plan to take the car to extremes, you don't need as much cooling.

[KPC67]

Yes Kevin, technically correct. I should have expounded on my use of 'heat exchangers' when talking about engine cooling specifically.

The following pictures are what I would consider my 'normal' application in cooling... this is actually what I talked CarlC into doing (I'm really good at spending his hard earned money.) I typically like to package both engine cooling and oil cooling for the numerous and mutual benefits. I have used this set up to cool and control the cooling of 850-1000HP use in places like the desert southwest (Phoenix Az and Las Vegas Nv, etc.)

This utilizes a 13 plate heat exchanger for engine oil cooling... however, it works almost too good... and I would recommend the use of a oil thermostat as to not over cool the engine oil.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/chicane67/Radlhrear.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/chicane67/Radlhreartank.jpg

I figured you were talking about oil cooling. I feel that I can always add an external system down the road if it is necessary.
When you talk about extreme conditions, are you meaning just cruising down the road in Az or Las vegas, or auto crossing/racing in that heat?

I tried the heat exchanger setup on my big block(666hp) and it wasn't up to snuff with a stock width radiator core and the most extreme conditions. (Road racing sessions) I've since separated the oil and water cooling by going to an air oil cooler. It's made a big difference in temps but I haven't been back on the track. I think a heat exchanger could possibly work with the additional width of the autorad set up and larger fans. Big blocks make BIG heat. :unibrow: I went with the heat exchanger to help get the oil up to temp faster. It worked but ultimately overworked the cooling system. If you don't plan to take the car to extremes, you don't need as much cooling.

That was my thought too, thinking that two separate systems would be best. That being said I am sure an integrated system would be fine in my application (not being a big block). Also a good point on the wider system vs stock width system possibly making the difference as well.

[Vegas69]

I thought you were talking about an old school LS7.

[KPC67]

^^ No sorry. It is a gen IV LS7 with darton sleeves.^^
hope you didn't lose interest all of a sudden:_paranoid

[chicane]

I figured you were talking about oil cooling. I feel that I can always add an external system down the road if it is necessary.
When you talk about extreme conditions, are you meaning just cruising down the road in Az or Las vegas, or auto crossing/racing in that heat?

Auto-X, open road racing and land speed racing... which makes street cruising down the strip with the AC on... on a 114* day look like child's play.

[orangevert]

Not trying to heist a tread, But what is pricing on these setups.

Thanks Kirk

[Jay Hilliard]

I have been discussing with Paul at C&R in Mooresville, NC about BBC radiator, electric fan setup, etc. They are in the development process now and plan to have a prototype for me to try out in March. If interested give Paul a call. I know they have the LS and SBC stuff completed.

Paul used to work for Be Cool and DSE, so he is aware of our needs/wants when it comes to pro-touring, Auto X, road racing ,etc.

[KPC67]

Not trying to heist a tread, But what is pricing on these setups.

Thanks Kirk

Kirk it is not my place to give prices that I have gathered over the last little while but you are starting anywhere from $900 to over $2000 depending on options..
You should probably contact some of the vendors on here if you want solid prices..
:cheers:

[Chicken Louie]

Kevin

I have a PRC rad waiting to be installed and I just placed a order for an condenser and overflow tank. They are good guys to deal with!

Dave

[chicane]

The radiator I posted about above... was right around $650.00 by itself... then about another $145 for the Mark VIII fan when you could still get the good one.

[KPC67]

Kevin

I have a PRC rad waiting to be installed and I just placed a order for an condenser and overflow tank. They are good guys to deal with!

Dave

Dave,
Do you have any pictures of it?

[Chicken Louie]

I will take and post some this weekend. It's still in the box.

[tubbed69]

check out the radiator at Entropy Corp. on ebay it works great and priced very well,I have bought 2 and the quality is very nice.

[69znc]

At 700 hp I would go with the larger tubing. Jim can advice you but there are so many variables. I had to redo enough that the radiator is not one I wanted to risk. I also had mine polished and it is excellent looking. The dual vipers is what came with the larger tube. Not sure if this is true for the standard model. I have a 632 with 800+ at the flywheel and it gives some heat My car is covered in a the Project Update Forum under one of Holahans threads. The later pics have my rad installed. I can send more pics if you want. I, like you, will do some autocross and road racing but also wanted a great look. THe customer service is also great and jim turned a part i needed modifeid very quickly at no cost. I also am not thrilled with the upper panelling and I had mine polished. It is excellent work but to tone down the shine up front I will eventually "enhance" the finish. It is just not a high priortiy at this time.

[KPC67]

I actually placed an order with autorad yesterday. I was speaking with Karen and the way she spoke was 700 hp was no problem with the smaller core. She also said that I can control the fans with the engine computer and would not need their controller. Does anyone know how this is done? or is it just easier to go with theirs? it is $120 for the preset controller or $145 for the programable one.. fairly cheap if it is going to cause a headache not having one.

[Ron in SoCal]

I actually placed an order with autorad yesterday. I was speaking with Karen and the way she spoke was 700 hp was no problem with the smaller core. She also said that I can control the fans with the engine computer and would not need their controller. Does anyone know how this is done? or is it just easier to go with theirs? it is $120 for the preset controller or $145 for the programable one.. fairly cheap if it is going to cause a headache not having one.

Hey Kev - I bought the Autorad w the fan controller. As I understand it - and I could be wrong - the ECU does an on or off for both the fans. I will wire in-line the controller so it gets the the on signal from the ECU and the controller decides when to turn the second fan on/off. That's my plan anyway...:willy:

[KPC67]

Hey Kev - I bought the Autorad w the fan controller. As I understand it - and I could be wrong - the ECU does an on or off for both the fans. I will wire in-line the controller so it gets the the on signal from the ECU and the controller decides when to turn the second fan on/off. That's my plan anyway...:willy:

Ron,
I haven't the first clue about wiring so I will let you invent the wheel here...

[69znc]

Kev
I did not do the controller from AutoRad. I have mine fully controlled thru my ECM. THis includes temp they start. temp they stop even after shut down, coming on and off based on the AC and even turning the AC at times. one fan vs two fan at temps all is done thru my Electromotive ECM

It is not hard. and the actual wiring is less and more important integrated with these other variables which I like

[KPC67]

Kev
I did not do the controller from AutoRad. I have mine fully controlled thru my ECM. THis includes temp they start. temp they stop even after shut down, coming on and off based on the AC and even turning the AC at times. one fan vs two fan at temps all is done thru my Electromotive ECM

It is not hard. and the actual wiring is less and more important integrated with these other variables which I like

Basically is what you are saying is you have your ECU doing everything that the autorad controller will do but with a little cleaner installation.
Did you get your ECU with a custom program to control your fans? (is that possible?)
Thanks for all the info.

[GregWeld]

Some ECU's have this capability - some do not (running two fans). If not - you can control two fans with the SPAL PWM controller or similar. I like the SPAL version - it is easy to use - water proof - and with the addition of one relay will run twin fans. I like it's strategy of running the fans for awhile after turning off the A/C for a cool down period etc.

I know the FAST EFI has dual fan control... as did my Accel Gen 7 ECU

[JustinB]

Greg, where are you finding the Spal Pwm controllers? From what I have been told Spal is no longer making them and I can't anybody who has some on the shelf.

[GregWeld]

Well -- It's been a couple years since I had to buy one... and the place I bought it from (I have two of them) also shows "no longer available".

Sad - it was a nice piece!

[ironworks]

I sell quite a few of the Autorad units. There quality looks like something we might try and build. the PRC units look like miter cut projects with exposed welds. If I'm going to buy something that we use on one of our builds I want it to be as good as we would build or better. The Autorad Unit is really nice quality, all welds are sanded smooth and drilled and taped holes make things clean. AutoRad's radiators are bigger in most cases.

We sometimes run the fan circuit off the ECU or Ron Francis makes a really nice Controller also. It is fully adjustable and uses a wire lead that can hook anywhere to the block. It requires more knowledge to set up as far as a tem gun, But is really clean and does not use a thermostat sender. Just an Eyelet hooked to a bolt on the cylinder head.

The other hard part about the ECU fan signal is getting the AC to work with that properly. The external fan switches address that more easily.

[MarkM66]

Greg, where are you finding the Spal Pwm controllers? From what I have been told Spal is no longer making them and I can't anybody who has some on the shelf.

There are a couple on ebay.

[ironworks]

These work awesome. I sell a bunch of them.

http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AR-88

[GregWeld]

I just liked the way the SPAL PWM would run fan #1 at half speed and then ramp up as needed... and would run the fans on cool down mode after running the A/C... and that it was waterproof so you had lots of mounting choices.

But obviously that's a mute point now.:rolleyes:

[GregWeld]

There will be TWO less SPAL PWM controllers on Ebay.... I'm bidding on both of them.


EEEEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

[KPC67]

There will be TWO less SPAL PWM controllers on Ebay.... I'm bidding on both of them.


EEEEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

Greg, you beat me to it:thmbsdwn:
Its probably best not to start a bidding war with you!... Your pockets are deeper.

[Ron in SoCal]

Greg, you beat me to it:thmbsdwn:
Its probably best not to start a bidding war with you!... Your pockets are deeper.

Yeah, but you could shill-bid and drive up the price...:lol:

[skatinjay27]

Yeah, but you could shill-bid and drive up the price...:lol:
here to make it easy ill give ya the direct link!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPAL-FAN-PWM-Programmable-electric-fan-controller-NEW-BOX-/160747125798?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item256d467c26#ht_500wt_934

also here another item hes bidding on if you wanna give him more hell!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Depends-Guards-Men-2-packages-52-bonus-pack-/200718539070?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebbc1d93e#ht_500wt_934
:D

[Vegas69]

:rofl:

[GregWeld]

Greg, you beat me to it:thmbsdwn:
Its probably best not to start a bidding war with you!... Your pockets are deeper.

I'm just hoping to get ONE out of the two... for a back up. I like to have some inventory on the shelf... because that way if one bites the dust I can just plug and play the back up. So if you want one - go for it. Just let me know so we don't bid each other up.

[KPC67]

I'm just hoping to get ONE out of the two... for a back up. I like to have some inventory on the shelf... because that way if one bites the dust I can just plug and play the back up. So if you want one - go for it. Just let me know so we don't bid each other up.

I think I am going to go for this one. Autorad sells it for 145, with the second relay.... What are your thoughts?

http://www.dakotadigital.com/cartimages/prd_641.gif

[GregWeld]

I think I am going to go for this one. Autorad sells it for 145, with the second relay.... What are your thoughts?

http://www.dakotadigital.com/cartimages/prd_641.gif



It's more than the one that Ironworks uses from Ron Francis. Personally - I haven't found Dakota Digital to be very "robust". Everything I've used from them seems flimsy.... but I've never seen this particular unit.

[JustinB]

I checked out the Dakota Digital unit and think I am either going to go with the Ron Francis kit or just good old fashioned relays. What I liked about the Ron Francis kit, is the two relays are built into the unit and would make for an easy install and less clutter to hide. Autorad will be here on Friday, need to make up my stinking mind.

http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AR-88

[KPC67]

It's more than the one that Ironworks uses from Ron Francis. Personally - I haven't found Dakota Digital to be very "robust". Everything I've used from them seems flimsy.... but I've never seen this particular unit.

I agree on the dakota stuff, it might be an unfair statement for me to make because I have never owned anything from them, I just feel the quality is not quite there.. no offense to anyone.

[KPC67]

It's more than the one that Ironworks uses from Ron Francis. Personally - I haven't found Dakota Digital to be very "robust". Everything I've used from them seems flimsy.... but I've never seen this particular unit.

I checked out the Dakota Digital unit and think I am either going to go with the Ron Francis kit or just good old fashioned relays. What I liked about the Ron Francis kit, is the two relays are built into the unit and would make for an easy install and less clutter to hide. Autorad will be here on Friday, need to make up my stinking mind.

http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AR-88

The ronfrancis one does seem simple.

[ironworks]

The cool thing about the Ron Francis is that it does not you a temp sensor. So it has less parts to go wrong. But you have to manually set the fan switch with a heat gun since it does not use a Temp sensor. But once you figure out the temp it comes on at you just adjust it higher or lower to your desired setting.

[69znc]

The other hard part about the ECU fan signal is getting the AC to work with that properly. The external fan switches address that more easily.

I guess this greatly depends on the ECU. I am very new at this and can easily adjust my temperature and speed of my fans (one or both) relative to the water temp or whether the AC is running from my ECU. I also programmed it to for my AC shut off at certain RPMs and temperature.

[The WidowMaker]

PRC fan here. i got the setup from mike at musclerodz and i think most would be suprised at the price compared to the others. i for one like the exposed welds and i was worried they wouldnt be as nice as the ron davis stuff. luckly i was proved wrong.....

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab145/chevelle496ci/IMG_0837.jpg

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab145/chevelle496ci/IMG_0832.jpg

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab145/chevelle496ci/IMG_0834.jpg

[The T-man]

I am currently looking into radiators for my car. I am kind of leaning towards the autorad setup. I have zero experience with this kind of thing and I know some of you are using them. I would like to hear your thoughts.

Ron Davis Radiators are the best

[coolwelder62]

The PRC unit's are super nice and work very well.:thumbsup: