Danny Popp Wins 2011 Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational

[BangShiftChad]

It was down to the wire and he got some help, but Danny Popp won the deal!

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Breaking-News-Danny-Popp-Wins-2011-Optima-Ultimate-Street-Car-Invitational-in-Corvette-Insanely-Tight-Battle-With-Mark-Stielow.html

[Track Junky]

Do 2006 Vettes even count? :D Just kidding, congrats!!

[MaxHarvard]

The fact that Mark was able to be that close to a new style corvette with what looks like some serious parts, in a 43 year old car is just testimony to what a hell of a car he built and what a great driver he is.

[GregWeld]

The fact that Mark was able to be that close to a new style corvette with what looks like some serious parts, in a 43 year old car is just testimony to what a hell of a car he built and what a great driver he is.



Mark "lost" by being 2 seconds slower on the road course -- other than that it was a TIE for 1st on points overall...

The whole thing was EPIC!

My feet and legs are falling off -- I'm sunburned -- and I just now got back to my Vegas room after leaving this AM @ 4:30 and I wouldn't trade it for anything... OPTIMA once again put on a great event and I loved every minute of it!

[Vegas69]

The fact that Mark was able to be that close to a new style corvette with what looks like some serious parts, in a 43 year old car is just testimony to what a hell of a car he built and what a great driver he is.

Amen:thumbsup: I have to add, he is doing it in TRUE protouring fashion as well. His car weighs 3600lbs and it ain't no racecar with license plates. I'll leave it at that.

[mexMan]

I saw the note on BS website, congratulations to Danny on the win! And what a great car, and congratulations to Mark Stielow, no matter what car beats Red Devil, it's still #1, and all the fuzz it has been made aroun Red Devil at SEMA it's amazing, you've nailed it Mark.

[Rybar]

Congrats to Danny, is there any info on his vette? And any info on how all the competitors had done??

[MarkM66]

Stielow took first in the "Pro-Touring" class.. ;)

[Track Junky]

Congrats to Mark. How did Mary do?

[DOOM]

Amen:thumbsup: I have to add, he is doing it in TRUE protouring fashion as well. His car weighs 3600lbs and it ain't no racecar with license plates. I'll leave it at that.

Todd don't hold back on us now bro.....

[GregWeld]

Amen:thumbsup: I have to add, he is doing it in TRUE protouring fashion as well. His car weighs 3600lbs and it ain't no racecar with license plates. I'll leave it at that.


I worked Tech this year.... and the auto cross.... and the StopTech stop box... so got to touch - see - and watch every single car there on a close up basis.

Remember that this is "THEIR" (sponsors) show... they get to run it anyway they want to. I'm just happy they allow all of us to be a part of it.

Having said that -- and having worked this event since day one.... I don't care what kind of a car it is -- the BIGGEST DIFFERENCE out there is the driver. I saw extreme quality (i.e., BIG MONEY) cars running - some low dollar (no slam here because there was nothing out there I didn't want to own!)....and everything in between. EVERYONE ran 'em hard, and often.

The lines have gotten blurred between "street" and "race"... and it's getting harder and harder to distinguish what IS and what ISN'T. The more rules you make - the more rules get bent or circumvented.

I personally would like to see a "fighting chance" given to the more "street car" vs the more "race car" as far as scoring/winning. Maybe have a group place cars in "A" and "B" group to distinguish them. A pro in a race car is certainly going to beat a home built/never been on a track before guy. END OF STORY. My guess is - if you asked the home/novice driver if he'd run again -- he'd be slathering at the chance!

BUT == There's always a big BUTT in the room isn't there? LOL ----- Watching the "race cars" run - and hearing them - and watching how these guys run the lines vs the other guys - is what we ALL learn from... and without them this event wouldn't be nearly as exciting.

Back in the day --- What the Mule/Red Devil are now --- they were race cars vs what the other stuff was. Think about it -- they had the biggest HP and biggest brakes and roll bars... the best suspensions....and drivers that had lots of experience. They pushed the envelope of what was street and what was nearly a race car.... EVERYONE RAISED THEIR GAME because of cars like this.

You go out there and watch Mary Pozzi -- Brian Hobaugh -- Mark Steilow -- Danny Popp - Kyle and Stacy Tucker - and a few others.... and you know you can put these people in ANY CAR OUT THERE and they'd be far higher on the leader board than the car/driver that ran. It's amazing to watch these truly talented people wheel a car around.

Every one of these cars had to drive out to the event... about 45 miles -- they did it in the rain and snow... from downtown Vegas.. over the mountain pass... in stop and go traffic... They're all running STREET tires... and then they got beat on like a judge beats his teenage daughter (had to get that in! HAHAHA). I just about s*** myself when I was up in my room and heard some badazz car ripping down LV Blvd -- I look out over the the lake and here goes Innovator! He was rattling my windows on the 18th floor. Gawd I loved that! AND it's raining.... Then to watch that bad boy ripping the back straight... looking and sounding like a real race car. EPIC!

I'm not defending or taking a side -- I'm just saying -- there is no separation any more - and nice paint and fit and finish or having a full roll cage and the widest tire on the planet or the biggest 400 piston caliper... or a full carbon fiber front end and carbon fiber wheel hoops.... WHAT IS or ISN'T a race car anymore?? Carbon fiber parts were -- catch word there -- the exclusive domain of the top Formula One teams! WTF.... there was more carbon fiber out at OUSCI.... and shocks with canisters... and big cube 1000 hp turbo whooptedoo....

The real separation ---- THE DRIVERS. OMG there where some drivers out there... :cheers:

[Vegas69]

Todd don't hold back on us now bro.....

I'm not picking on anybody and don't want to start a pissing match. My point, cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates. This a very declicate subject but I have a good feel for the end product. I'd consider my car somewhere in the middle. If I had it to do over again, I'd likely be one of the guys with a car more catered to the track vs. the street. That's just what I enjoy the most. I'm not 18 anymore and I don't find many places to let 666hp breath around here. Not safely at least.

Bottom line, my point is that Mark is doing it with a car that is really the definition or protouring.

[Flash68]

Stielow took first in the "Pro-Touring" class.. ;)

This site is Lateral-G, so I think the opinions reflect as such....
Anyone who knew the players and cars knew how it was going to turn out. Stielow's "tie" is a phenomenal feat when you really break it down.

I've already heard rumblings of a 2 class system for next year and I hope it really comes to fruition. I am confident Jimi and the organizers will adjust to the growth and change of this event. It ain't an easy task that's for sure.

Greg makes goint points (for once :lol:) that it continually raises the bar and paves new paths for others -- both the cars themselves and the actual driving.

But there should be some integrity maintained here eh? I saw one car didn't even have side windows. Come on. Ultimate Streetcar.

Again, it ain't my show, but this thing surely has shifted gears in its young existence.

I am with Todd, and I see many others that I know and talk to shaping their cars (either during the build, or after completion) for more track duty than for 1000 mile cruising than ever before. And I do like that.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't complaining. This is still the pinnacle of "Pro Touring on the track"! :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

I'm not picking on anybody and don't want to start a pissing match. My point, cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates. This a very declicate subject but I have a good feel for the end product. I'd consider my car somewhere in the middle. If I had it to do over again, I'd likely be one of the guys with a car more catered to the track vs. the street. That's just what I enjoy the most. I'm not 18 anymore and I don't find many places to let 666hp breath around here. Not safely at least.

Bottom line, my point is that Mark is doing it with a car that is really the definition or protouring.



WE agree 100%


I just don't want people that weren't there -- to read stuff like this and start forming UNINFORMED opinions about what the event should or shouldn't be.... and sadly that's what starts to happen. These types of events are GOOD for us and our industry... and we need to support them 100% and the sponsors that toss perfectly good money at this stuff.

[96z28ss]

I'd like to see this get added to the rules. What street car doesn't have this?

Carpet
Wipers
Heat and the defrost must work.
Side windows must roll up and down.
test to see all lights working properly
horn

Lets stay true the title of the event. Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.

[Vegas69]

You are right, I'm definitely not taking anything away from the event or the winner. I don't care what he was driving, it's still a great accomplishment. I was fortunate to run it last year and would love to do it again. It's not called the ultimate protouring street car invitational. I'm just puffing out my chest for the capabilities of our hobby and the cars we build.

[GregWeld]

I'd like to see this get added to the rules. What street car doesn't have this?

Carpet
Wipers
Heat and the defrost must work.
Side windows must roll up and down.
test to see all lights working properly
horn

Lets stay true the title of the event. Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.

Well.... lights - both headlight and taillights - as well as working brake lights were part of tech... as was a thorough tire inspection - and the cars weren't considered tech'd until a marking was on EVERY tire... tread - treadwear ratings - wheel bearings etc were all checked... Heaters not so much.... My roadster didn't have a heater until I added it. A horn is a requirement in order to get a license plate in most states... Get a ticket for not having one!

So -- I couldn't run my ROADSTER if it was chosen? No top - no side windows... No fenders... Aircraft carpeting because it is super lightweight compared to automotive version...

What about my LSX blown TR3? (man would that be a shoehorn!!) LOL

They'd have to take away some of the 10 cars that WON golden tickets to OUSCI because of winning a RTT(X) event....

That's the problem with RULES...

[GregWeld]

You are right, I'm definitely not taking anything away from the event or the winner. I don't care what he was driving, it's still a great accomplishment. I was fortunate to run it last year and would love to do it again. It's not called the ultimate protouring street car invitational. I'm just puffing out my chest for the capabilities of our hobby and the cars we build.



From 10,000 feet ----- I totally agree with you!

"Our" style of cars were WELL represented and they did just fine!

EPIC really... Mister Stielow was kicking serious butt!

[Flash68]

cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates.

And this is because of the RTTx type events, and ultimately, Optima.

Many people are building or modifying build plans just to get into this event. That says a lot about how great these events and Optima are.

[Vegas69]

And that may be a HUUUUGE mistake. You can't bake your cake and eat it too. Getting greedy on the race car side will effect your comfort and cruising experience. I always say, you don't know what you've built until the wheels spin the first time.

[coolwelder62]

Well I for one had an awesome time.The best part for me was meeting a bunch of new folks.Charley L.Jody B.Greg W.Socal Ron.JCG Cris.Jason of War,Tom,Deb,Sam F.Albert's Firebird made the 100 + mile drive to puhrump (in the freezing rain),Thrashed on on it all day Sat. And nothing broke,just a few paint chip's.Thank's too everybody who competed at Optima,And congrat's to Danny Pop for being faster then snot.:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

And that may be a HUUUUGE mistake. You can't bake your cake and eat it too. Getting greedy on the race car side will effect your comfort and cruising experience. I always say, you don't know what you've built until the wheels spin the first time.

Agreed. Gotta do your best to know what you want in the end and make the appropriate compromises.

But as you've admitted you woulda done many things different with your car knowing what you know now. Even the best intentions and plans sometimes are derailed.

[clill]

I think I heard Mary beat a certain car with no windows.

I think a big factor for Stielow was how cold it was outside. I saw the red Mustang with the big wing had tire heaters. Popp and Detroit Speed had these solar looking covers over their tires to keep the heat from the warmup laps in. Mark had considered bringing tire warmers but didn't want to rattle any cages by going that far. Guess he should have. There was some serious hardware there with some good drivers. There was also some serious hardware there that looked silly on the autocross because some of them had no clue as to how to set it up. Fun event but was kinda disappointed that only the winner in each class got any awards. If you finished second it was announced. If you finished third I don't even think you got mentioned. In the future it would be nice to give say 1-5 or top 10 some kind of award to take home as a momento. Does not have to be tires or cameras, just something somebody can show off at home. The extreme example is Stielow finishing second overall out of 50plus contestants and walking away with a handshake. A small trophy or something would cost next to nothing and would be something to remember the accomplishment by.

Was a great event and the drive thru the snowy pass was a fun adventure. We stopped at Target on the way and bought knit caps, knit gloves, sweatshirts etc. Kept kinds warm for under 20.00 I especially enjoy the bar at Wullfys for Pizza and Beer.

Yes I also agree if our type of Pro-Touring cars want to be very competitive there need to be two classes. One for older stuff and one for newer stuff. I have a 2011 Porsche Turbo S that would have killed everyone in the speed stop challenge. AWD traction controlled full boost launch is hard to beat.

[SundaySlackerMa]

pics and info on our site

[SundaySlackerMa]

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[DOOM]

I'm not picking on anybody and don't want to start a pissing match. My point, cars are constantly moving away from the roots of protouring and becoming race cars with lights, 200 treadwears, and plates. This a very declicate subject but I have a good feel for the end product. I'd consider my car somewhere in the middle. If I had it to do over again, I'd likely be one of the guys with a car more catered to the track vs. the street. That's just what I enjoy the most. I'm not 18 anymore and I don't find many places to let 666hp breath around here. Not safely at least.

Bottom line, my point is that Mark is doing it with a car that is really the definition or protouring.

Nuff said...............

[GregWeld]

I have a 2011 Porsche Turbo S that would have killed everyone in the speed stop challenge. AWD traction controlled full boost launch is hard to beat.


LOL - You are so right!! I witnessed this first hand... and it's just awesome how hard that thing launches!


RE: Classes

We almost need THREE classes.... because there were brand new Camaros - Vettes, CTS V's and Mustangs out there with all the factory stuff PLUS the kitchen sink!

Then you had the "almost a full on race car".... and then you had the cars that, to me, is what the OUSIC started with... which is the STUFF WE BUILD and drive....


Personally -- I'd do away with ANY first place anything -- and let the award be "just being there" and give every participant a plaque or trophy... They all deserve it! Then post up everybody's times for each event and let everyone root for/get satisfaction from whomever they want... then EVERYONE WINS just by being at the event - witnessing some of the coolest cars anywhere....

I have to say - watching the new stuff run -- was every bit as cool as watching any of the other cars... that CTS V just screamed... and it was really fun hearing it and watching it. Then you get to watch that killer "barn find" Chevy and on one corner you'd see fender skirts and dog dish hubcaps -- next turn it was no fender skirts and steelies.... LOL and watching that big ole car coming at me in the StopTech was... OMG! Your eyes said OMG that old clunker is hurling itself straight at me "is it going to stop?" and your brain was saying -- That thing is so kool!!

[DOOM]

I like the three class idea Greg.

[GregWeld]

I like the three class idea Greg.

I like the NO CLASS idea.... Let each car stand for what it is... go out there and beat the bejesus out of 'em... you root for whatever turns you on... because they're all so different and they're all so kool.

You have old - new - pro built - unlimited money built - partly home built - huge power - crate motors - show cars - track cars - pro drivers and first timers. The only thing people don't like - is that "they're guy" didn't WIN. I beg to differ - if you asked the participants - I'd bet not one single person would complain about ANYTHING except that it wasn't a TWO DAY EVENT! HAHAHAHAHA

I guess what I just keep saying is -- EVERY ONE OF THEM IS FUN -- The event is fun. Everyone is a winner... the builders - the drivers - the spectators - the sponsors.... Isn't that the best result?

[jocko124]

I guess what I just keep saying is -- EVERY ONE OF THEM IS FUN -- The event is fun. Everyone is a winner... the builders - the drivers - the spectators - the sponsors.... Isn't that the best result?

Well said Greg. This is the first time I have attended such an event and it was a blast. Saw a lot of cool cars and skilled drivers. :thumbsup:

[SLO_Z28]

Watch what you say Greg, you might lose your high paying job!
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/SLO_Z28/OUSCI%202011/322.jpg

[Stuart Adams]

Great event. Had fun hanging out and watching it go down. Their was a variety of cars to see which was cool. Congrats to all who raced, its not easy and not cheap by any stretch.

My only concern is the sponsors that put their whole life into this community. I'm just worried that when half the cars are not cars from the hobby, they take a hit. When you can buy a stock ZR1 and crush a well sorted out, sponsor parts car, that takes a hit to the community IMO.

I realize this is only one race, just trying to not see the people making a living in this stuff get hurt by having half the cars that qualified not supporting the vendors or community.

I think the crew from optima and all the volunteers did an awesome job. Thanks for putting it on, looking forward to next year.

[Ron in SoCal]

This was a great event and everyone's point here is valid, to me at least. I do have a few random observations:

- First off, Danny Popp is one hellofa driver and his car is his perfect match. When he put the throttle down, the car planted and it took off. No major squat, no huge time killing burn out, just all go. On the AutoX - especially the last few turns where the most cones and a spin went down - he just rotated the car where it needed to go. On the road course, it took the real race car (a Spring Mountain 1:40 lapper) more than one and half laps to catch him. Just an observation, but I found it ironic seeing him parked at the DSE pit with the rest of their crew + Finch and Stielow. From a driver/car combo he belonged there although I'm not sure there was one DSE part on his car? Enough said on that...

- On the road course, all the usual suspect PT cars hung it all out. The bus stop on turn 9 upset quite a few cars, although Stielow ran it quite well. On turn one I noticed Kyle Tucker wobble (not slide) quite a bit as he pushed his car as fast as that thing would go! It was awesome.

- The LPE 5th Gen Camaro sounded absolutely awesome. Lumpy and full of compression. I'd love to know what was in that engine!

- The smell of race gas was in the air. I loved it and felt like mis-quoting Apocalypse Now.

- It would've been nice to hear lap times for the last few road course competitors. There was no timer board, so it was up to Matt MSA69 to use his iPhone and he did pretty good! But seriously, what's the big secret? The spread was 1:42 - 1:5x for the top drivers.

- Mr Hobaugh and Mr Maier killed it on the AutoX. They started ahead of Mary and Stielow and Popp and I thought there was no way they'd be beat. Just shows how fast Popp and Mary are in that venue.

Back to the classes discussion...I could care less which way they go, but I'm not sure our cars would ever kill modern technology and the vehicle examples given above, which does prove Todd's point about how good Mark really is. Another point made ahead of me is the sponsor issue. Really, is DSE, RideTech, Raybestos, there for the Corvette crowd? Wilwood and Optima have a small piece of that market for sure.

Looking at Optima, it's the All Star event of our hobby (not including the cars that get automatic invites for various reasons). These cars get faster every year and more race-car-like. Listening to Vinnie (great guy BTW!) and Mike Maier put their cars into first gear made me smile. Try driving those cars on the street! Also, this event has the same issues Bill Howell is dealing with as the RTTx events mature. Put a clock on an event with fast cars and people will find a way to win. No matter what. My point here is treadwear and tech inspections were the only constraints when this event was born. What'd y'all think was gonna happen?

[GregWeld]

Watch what you say Greg, you might lose your high paying job!
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/SLO_Z28/OUSCI%202011/322.jpg



DOES THAT FLAG MAKE MY BUTT LOOK BIG???

[camcojb]

Great event, Danny Popp deserved the win. :thumbsup: Absolutely the class of the field performance-wise. However, if they don't add some rules to determine "street cars" or split them into different classes, then the only way to win this event is get a late model car with full mods and great driver. Our older cars even with a great driver and whatever power level you want cannot compete with them, that's just a fact of life.

It's up to Optima to determine which way this event goes. No matter what, it's a great event and they deserve a ton of credit for putting it on. What they decide to do will determine what cars are competitive in the future. This is totally their decision, and it's their right to do with it as they wish.

[skatinjay27]

I agree with lots of what's been said, but regardless that popp won its amazing that a fully decked out c6 with a super skilled driver won by a tie break of 2 second on a road course time againts a 69 camaro!

And hellz yes greg that fleetline was so cool! I loved the gator!!

[MaxHarvard]

whoa jeez! I make a little comment, step away from the internet for a few days and the flood gates come out! :lol:


You guys do make some interesting points about the competition involved and what the sponsors really want to get out of the event. I have to say that I wasn't there so my following statement can be read as such.

I just worry that through the evolution of this event, we'll find ourselves with a pack of Ultima GTR's and Ariel Atoms running around because that's what it takes to win. Don't get me wrong, they are great cars and takes great skill to drive them well. I just hope that whatever it becomes in the future that its something we all can enjoy.

Through time I just hope it doesn't become a group of purpose built race cars that the usual race teams show up to compete. To me the appeal of the event was that it was something someone like me (read: complete novice) could put together a car, run it hard and maybe get some fun out of it. I'm not saying that it's there yet, I would just hate the event to run it's natural course and become unattainable to the middle of the road or even the higher end of the builds around.

Just my $.02

~Eric

[DRJDVM's '69]

While touring the Optima area at SEMA, my first impression of quite a few of the cars was..."this is a full race car with a license plate...this is no Street car".....

When there is a growing event like this and competition, people will push the envelope...so probably some time for some more rules to get it back in line with the "Optima Ultimate STREET Car" theme......

The bottomline is the event is supposed to be a fun event where people can thrash the cars they build....its not about the actual competition and who wins.....but everyone wants to win :)

[dunnjun]

Great car, great driver, and really nice guy! I've had the pleasure of walking an autox track with Danny as he explains the line he is gonna run. WOW! The man has a wealth of racing knowledge, and he'll share it with anyone that wants to learn. Congratulations Danny for adding your name to an very exclusive list.

[73CPCAMARO]

This event was a lot of fun and I was fortunate to be able to participate this year. Danny Popp is an incredible driver in a well sorted 2006 Corvette Z06. That car and his driving skill is what I am trying to have with my Camaro.

A lot of what is being said on this thread has to do with my car and others like it. This event is run by its team that has a vision of what they want. My car went through their approval process and was accepted to compete. During the week of SEMA, I had countless people come to me and say how they would love to have my car or something like it. The idea of having a competitive car on the track that was also capable of driving on the street was just awesome.

I posted many photos of my car and told the story of my build on this forum for a reason. I also named the thread “1973 Autocross / Street Car” for a reason. This thread has over 175,000 hits. I showed just about everything I have done to the car with nothing held back accept for some dimensions of suspension parts. My car was built to be the fastest autocross car I could build AND be able to drive it on the street and enjoy it legally. I also wanted to be able to go to an open track day here and there and be safe. The cage is for handling and safety. Being able to walk away from a serious crash at track speed is more important to me that anything. I worry for many on this forum and others that, WHEN not IF, one of us has a problem and crashes their “Pro-Touring” car, they are not seriously hurt. The idea of driving hard on a race track without a safe cage scares me.

There was a wide range of cars and drivers out there. This event is many things to many people. Any time you put a start and stop with a clock, the most competitive of us will do what it takes to go fast within the rules.

I did not have an unlimited budget, like most. Compromises must be made. Since I wanted my car to be fast and safe, some comfort features were left out. A/C and leather seats are nice, but do not make the car go faster. I drive a Lexus every day for comfort. I do have all the factory lights (headlamps, turn lamps, brake lamps, back up lamps, and dome light). I also have a horn, windshield wipers, FAN AND HEATER. The only thing I don’t have is side windows. When I was building the doors I was going to install electric motored windows but ran out of time and money. It was not important to me as I live in California and the weather is usually pretty nice. You also have to have your windows down on the track.

There have been a handful of cars in the past OUSCI that did not have any interior panels, door glass, heaters, wipers, and others. This year is not new. Also, there have been a few roadsters that have competed that don’t have a roof. At least I have a roof. This year’ award wining incredible 1959 Corvette that was in the Wilwood display does not have door glass or a roof. If that car was invited and accepted, would that be against the rules some of you have proposed? How would that do in the rain? What about last years beautiful and awesome black 1962 Corvette built by the Roadster Shop. No roof.

When the weather turned ugly on Friday, I was happy to see it. For a while, I have heard rumblings about my car and how it is not a “Street Car”. I was one of the 38 of 55 cars that completed the Road Rally. I drove all over Las Vegas getting the necessary items with Mike Maier in his 1966 Mustang. We ended up taking the long way to Pahrump per the recommendation of Jimi Day at the drivers meeting. We drove over 100 miles Friday night in the rain and it got down to 38 degrees. Even with no door windows, I did not get wet and I did not freeze to death. Sure, it was cold and a bit much for my heater to keep me toasty, but I was fine with a jacket.

Had dinner at In n Out Friday night on the Rally

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/bdjhob/102_6369.jpg

Met this French couple that just got Married. They thought it was great taking their photo with my car and the best man and aligator?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/bdjhob/102_6372.jpg


I also have a Detroit Locker in the rear end of my car. While performing a U turn, it bangs a lot when it is warm. I compromised some noise for performance and durability. I also have a G Force transmission. No clutch necessary on shifts. It can be a bit loud on shifts, but again, a compromise for performance and durability over comfort.

This event is also to showcase SEMA. My car has over 40 aftermarket manufactures represented.

Greg Weld made some excellent points about this topic. I really appreciate all of his thoughts. I agree with him on the subject of driving skill level also. If you put all the competitors in the same car, the results would not change much. Driving has more to do with this event than anything. Put the top drivers in another car and they will beat the owner of that car just about every time.

The Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational is a great event for all of us. It shows that cars are meant to be driven. After that, interpretation of what cars should be there are all over the map. Enjoy the event and all that comes with it. This is part race and look at what racing around the world has done for all cars. It pushes us to build better parts and cars and I hope it never stops.

[Stuart Adams]

Brian, cool car. Love the stance and tire size combo.

[Flash68]

Brian, I personally think your car is a great example of walking the fine line from street car to race car (that is a good thing and meant as a compliment).

If I was to build my car from scratch, I would incorporate most of what you did in that project. Others may not agree. Just because Stielow's car weighs 3700 lbs and has full interior and stereo doesn't mean everyone's car has to.

And the safety aspect is huge as well. You are right... unfortunately it does appear to be a matter of when and not if.

I didn't even know you didn't have windows (since I was one who made that comment earlier). And the fact that you intended to and just ran out of time is no biggie.

Congrats on your 3rd place finish and great showing.. And you did it in a muscle car. :thumbsup:

Oh, and don't ya love the people who say ya can't drive a dog box on the street? Who says so? :D

[73CPCAMARO]

Brian, I personally think your car is a great example of walking the fine line from street car to race car (that is a good thing and meant as a compliment).

If I was to build my car from scratch, I would incorporate most of what you did in that project. Others may not agree. Just because Stielow's car weighs 3700 lbs and has full interior and stereo doesn't mean everyone's car has to.

And the safety aspect is huge as well. You are right... unfortunately it does appear to be a matter of when and not if.

I didn't even know you didn't have windows (since I was one who made that comment earlier). And the fact that you intended to and just ran out of time is no biggie.

Congrats on your 3rd place finish and great showing.. And you did it in a muscle car. :thumbsup:

Oh, and don't ya love the people who say ya can't drive a dog box on the street? Who says so? :D

Thanks Dave! I built the car the be the best looking Camaro I could make and drive the crap out of it :D If I was going to spend that much time and money on the car, I wanted to be able to drive it on the street and have a blast with it. To me, that is what my car is all about.

[GregWeld]

Oh, and don't ya love the people who say ya can't drive a dog box on the street? Who says so? :D

The clunking (Jerico) and locker banging..... UNTIL.... you get to speed.... would drive me crazy on the street! I hated to drive my car to the Sunoco tank in the pits with all the clunking and chunking going on....First time I did I thought I broke something!

The guys working with me at the stop box were just sure those cars had broken when they tried to make the (TOO TIGHT) turn to the return road... I winched every time myself and I knew what the reason was.

But you know what? I'm dying to put some street tires on the thing and sneak out to the triple X (It's a burger joint you gutter guys!) some Saturday afternoon...

BRIAN --- It was so much fun to get to spend some time with you and your Dad! I hope we get the chance to do it again! Thanks for posting your side of the story...:cheers:

[camcojb]

For the record, I love your car Brian. And in my opinion it totally fits the spirit of this event.

[chevguy]

From a completely outside perspective( I live on the other side of the world so you can't get much more outside :) ) this argument gets bought up in so many types of motorsport (what is street/race ) it cannot be solved. As soon as you introduce more rules someone will find an edge in some way and guess what, some people will want more rules again. It's a vicious circle. If you are having fun but someone beats you with better gear, you know it and so do they. Race as hard as you can and have fun, nothing else matters when you do this.
Congrats to all you guys doing these races, I'm as jealous as hell, as here we don't have anything like it.

[73CPCAMARO]

For the record, I love your car Brian. And in my opinion it totally fits the spirit of this event.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[73CPCAMARO]

The clunking (Jerico) and locker banging..... UNTIL.... you get to speed.... would drive me crazy on the street! I hated to drive my car to the Sunoco tank in the pits with all the clunking and chunking going on....First time I did I thought I broke something!

The guys working with me at the stop box were just sure those cars had broken when they tried to make the (TOO TIGHT) turn to the return road... I winched every time myself and I knew what the reason was.

But you know what? I'm dying to put some street tires on the thing and sneak out to the triple X (It's a burger joint you gutter guys!) some Saturday afternoon...

BRIAN --- It was so much fun to get to spend some time with you and your Dad! I hope we get the chance to do it again! Thanks for posting your side of the story...:cheers:

Greg,

It was my Dad and my pleasure taking to you over some beers. Thank you for all you do on this site and at the events. We could not have these events without you and other volunteers.

Brian

[Steve Chryssos]

Which part of TIE is getting lost in the translation? The stereotypical pro-touring car tied the bad motherfrucker modern Z06 and beat out the cars without side windows.

I'd say that tie represents spectacular news for pro-touring and the rules are 100% spot on. Last I checked, Optima makes batteries for all kinds of cars. And if DSE decides to make parts for C6 vettes some day, their 1st and 2nd gen Camaro parts will still work well and sell well.

It's a good day for hot rodding. Bad day for belly-aching.

I very much enjoyed my first Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.
/Steevo

[clill]

Hey Brian...Once again....Can I have it ? Great car.

[73CPCAMARO]

Hey Brian...Once again....Can I have it ? Great car.

Thanks and still no :D

The car is more fun than I imagined it would be!

[coolwelder62]

I'd like to see this get added to the rules. What street car doesn't have this?

Carpet
Wipers
Heat and the defrost must work.
Side windows must roll up and down.
test to see all lights working properly
horn

Lets stay true the title of the event. Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.I am glad they didnt have these rules in place this year.As Albert was pulling out of my Drive way Fri night before sema I was trying get him to stay 3 hours longer so I could plug in the switches for the heat defroster,and put on the wiper blades.But he wouldnt slow down said he had to go.Just ran out of time.The car will get everything finished when he heads this way on his way home.

[camcojb]

Which part of TIE is getting lost in the translation? The stereotypical pro-touring car tied the bad motherfrucker modern Z06 and beat out the cars without side windows.

I'd say that tie represents spectacular news for pro-touring and the rules are 100% spot on. Last I checked, Optima makes batteries for all kinds of cars. And if DSE decides to make parts for C6 vettes some day, their 1st and 2nd gen Camaro parts will still work well and sell well.

It's a good day for hot rodding. Bad day for belly-aching.

I very much enjoyed my first Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.
/Steevo

Steve,

it only tied because of the fourth part of the judging, styling. Popp must have scored very low there to end up in a tie. He won first in autocross and road course, and placed well in the speed stop. If it wasn't for the show car part, and the event was just rated on the three performance sections he would have won by a mile. And in my opinion he should have won, he earned it.

But it's not, and the styling section is one-fourth of the event, and an equalizer to the later model cars. They won't score as well there in almost all cases, so that kind of equalizes things, and that's why it's there.

My point is that on a purely performance level the older stuff has really showed what it can do, but it will not be able to beat the late model Vettes, etc. on a head-to-head basis with equivalent drivers.

I am not complaining at all, and am very proud of the older cars that ran with (and beat) the late model stuff in some areas.

[GregWeld]

Hey Brian...Once again....Can I have it ? Great car.


Hey! Jack just called and he wants his car back and says he has a title.....

LOL


I agree with you Charley! I want it and I don't even like Orange... well... or yellow either... but obviously I don't let that get in the way!

Great car - great guys...

[Rybar]

Congrats to all the competitors it would be nice to see a run down of the events and competitors at some point.

I'd have to say one rule they might want to think about is banning tire warmers! :lol:

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve,

it only tied because of the fourth part of the judging, styling. Popp must have scored very low there to end up in a tie. He won first in autocross and road course, and placed well in the speed stop. If it wasn't for the show car part, and the event was just rated on the three performance sections he would have won by a mile. And in my opinion he should have won, he earned it.

But it's not, and the styling section is one-fourth of the event, and an equalizer to the later model cars. They won't score as well there in almost all cases, so that kind of equalizes things, and that's why it's there.

My point is that on a purely performance level the older stuff has really showed what it can do, but it will not be able to beat the late model Vettes, etc. on a head-to-head basis with equivalent drivers.

I am not complaining at all, and am very proud of the older cars that ran with (and beat) the late model stuff in some areas.

Understood. And if it were not for the powerful style of our older cars, many would just run out and buy new 'vettes, so style matters. It's exciting to see pro-touring cars placed in context relative to other enthusiast cars--new and old.

As for street vs race, Detroit Speed participated in Grassroots Motorsports Ultimate Track Car Challenge where many street cars participate. With Danny Popp driving, Stacy's 69 Camaro finished THIRTY-FIRST overall. Danny finished 3rd in his own race prepped vette. But that same 69 was amongst the fastest street cars on hand--top two or three fastest true street cars, if I recall. That's some interesting comparison data--especially since Danny was driving the 69.

A lot of us expected to see Z06, Z06, GT-R, race car with plates, etc at OUSCI 2011. Instead, 100% streetworthy pro-touring cars rocked it. Long term, good things will happen if pro-touring cars are displayed in context.

I, for one, would LOVE to see how Charley's AWD Launch Control Porsche stacks up against Quadra Deuce. See? Bring it.

[Sti_Guy]

Looking at the pedigree of some of the drivers it looks a little like it’s become a driver’s competition. The cars are one aspect but, looking at how well all the cars were built maybe having an independent pro driver test the top 5 in the track events would showcase what the cars can really do and how they stack up against each other.

[Jimi-FM3]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, keep it coming. We're paying close attention....

[camcojb]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, keep it coming. We're paying close attention....
Jimi,

This is my favorite race event. You guys have done an incredible job with it and I for one greatly appreciate the effort you and Optima, as well as all the others have put into making it as cool as it is.

I hope we don't come across as complaining, just sharing opinions and ideas. I want this event to prosper, that's a fact. :thumbsup:

[Stuart Adams]

Jimi,

This is my favorite race event. You guys have done an incredible job with it and I for one greatly appreciate the effort you and Optima, as well as all the others have put into making it as cool as it is.

I hope we don't come across as complaining, just sharing opinions and ideas. I want this event to prosper, that's a fact. :thumbsup:

X2 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

There are so many variables between the newer/older cars, pro-touring/race prepped pro-touring, that trying to seperate the competition into classes would not be easy.

I do like the fact that the late model cars are running with the pro-touring cars because it reminds us of how the DSE's, Ride-Tech's, Hotchkis's, etc's. engineering is helping our early model machines evolve into some serious contenders amongst the later model cars.

If it was me I would break the classes down to weight/power ratios, have 3 classes, and call it good at that. For example....say one guy is running a 3000 lb car with 480 hp to the rear wheels. That is about 6.25 lbs per each 1 hp. A 3700 lb car running 480 hp to the rear wheels would be 7.7 lbs per each 1 hp. Maybe having a 6:1-6:9 to one class, a 7:0-7.9:0 to one and a 8:0 and up class might help.

Tire width would be one that we should just have to deal with because adding that variable to weight/hp ratio would be very difficult to incorporate and probably create more classes and limit the cars in each class.

Just food for thought.

[SLO_Z28]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, keep it coming. We're paying close attention....

Jimi, this is the best event I have ever been to. You and the entire team of organizers and promoters deserve MAJOR kudos for putting on something so spectacular.

I also would like to thank Johnson Controls' Optima Batteries for envisioning this event, and seeing through with it. Without the support of Johnson Controls none of us would even be talking about this, and we would be talking about how cool all the cars looked.... at the show..... standing still...

[Flash68]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, keep it coming. We're paying close attention....

Thanks for all that you do Jimi. You guys have created the ultimate super bowl in just 3 short years. :thumbsup:

I'm curious to know if the organizers and car "pickers" prefer muscle cars at the core, and then try to fill in the event with a sampling of various imports, Euros, late models, etc. It appears that way in 09 & 10... but 11 looked to be a very different crowd. Nothing wrong with that... call it evolution.... in addition to all of us voicing our opinions, I'd love to hear what the originators have thought and continue to think..... in due time I would suppose. :lateral:

[Vegas69]

Clearly the points system works as-is. The styling portion is a good handicap for the newer cars and evens the playing field to some degree. With this being said, it's hard to imagine anybody will make a better run at Danny Popp than Mark Stielow.

Brian, I can tell my posts hit you in the gut. In no way was that my intention and I also didn't know your car was window less. You know I'm much more of a racer than a tourer. I 100% agree on the safety factor as well. That thought has crossed my mind many times. Bottom line, your car is bad ass. Congrats on your performance!

I want to eloborate a little more on what I meant with my comments. When I think of the ultimate pro touring car, I think of a car that is as corvette esque as possible. Smooth, compliant, comfortable, reliable, FAST, etc.... Loaded with what we expect in our daily drivers. As much as I like to race, gear whine, vibrations, clunking, chattering, squeaking, etc... gets on my nerves in a street car. I'm not capable of building a car on Stielows level. I'm not afraid to say that in front of the world. Evidentally nobody else is either.... To compete, I need to build a lighter, higher hp/weight ratio, more agressive combo. (Clearly a ton of driving lessons and track time as well) After building one, now I know why he's built 10. You really learn alot building, tweaking, driving, and racing these cars. I'd say the biggest variable is, you figure out what YOU really want. At the end of the day, you are engineering your own car and figuring out what you really want is a huge part of the sorting process. If I ever build another, it will likely be more down Brian's alley but it won't see many street miles.

[Jimi-FM3]

Thanks for all that you do Jimi. You guys have created the ultimate super bowl in just 3 short years. :thumbsup:

I'm curious to know if the organizers and car "pickers" prefer muscle cars at the core, and then try to fill in the event with a sampling of various imports, Euros, late models, etc. It appears that way in 09 & 10... but 11 looked to be a very different crowd. Nothing wrong with that... call it evolution.... in addition to all of us voicing our opinions, I'd love to hear what the originators have thought and continue to think..... in due time I would suppose. :lateral:

"The organizers" consists of a diverse group of industry professionals and we do our best to create a field of vehicles that showcases the best of the high performance street car automobile. We look for pro-touring, import, euro, domestic, trucks, old, new, wild and mild. The real key is "street" car. We are paying very close attention to the rules and will do our very best to keep this competition to street cars and not race cars with license plates. We feel this years field was one of the most diverse and talented groups ever assembled.

[Tom.A]

Fair or not it will push Stielow to higher level. I bet he was penciling out a AWD mod for this winter :evil:

Is the 1.42 time correct? If so and Stielow was two seconds off that means he picked up ~4 seconds from last year? :hail: I wonder what a big wing like the winner had would do?

[clill]

I think Stielow was 3 seconds faster this year than last.

[Sandbagger]

Hats off to Stielow , only 2 sec. back from that Corvette /Popp
Any info on that Yellow C4 corvette ? How did he do ?

[Stuart Adams]

I think Kyle was 3 seconds faster than last year also. That is alot of time.

Maybe Mark can elaborate on how you make up 3 seconds, that has to be close to driving to the limits.

[Stuart Adams]

"The organizers" consists of a diverse group of industry professionals and we do our best to create a field of vehicles that showcases the best of the high performance street car automobile. We look for pro-touring, import, euro, domestic, trucks, old, new, wild and mild. The real key is "street" car. We are paying very close attention to the rules and will do our very best to keep this competition to street cars and not race cars with license plates. We feel this years field was one of the most diverse and talented groups ever assembled.

I like how you grouped the cars together. The faster cars ran together on the roadcourse, great job.

[Stielow]

I think Kyle was 3 seconds faster than last year also. That is alot of time.

Maybe Mark can elaborate on how you make up 3 seconds, that has to be close to driving to the limits.

I changed the following:

• Fixed the ABS to have no faults with my new axle
• Changed the blower and added appox 50 HP
• Filled the fuel tank so I would not fuel starve out of Pahrump turn 2
• Fixed the clutch to allow faster shifts
• Fixed the transmission to allow better 2 - 3 shifts (Faster)
• Retuned the shocks
• Swapped brakes to Stop-Tech to re-balance the brakes
• Ran a lot of practice laps

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Red%20Devil/PahrumpLap.jpg

For a 3600 lbs Hot Rod Power Tour car that idles at 700 RPM it goes OK. :thumbsup:

With some more laps on that track in my car I'm sure I could go 1:43 but getting down to a 1:42 in Red Devil I don't think is possible. It is just physics. Also I’m sure Danny with a little practice could go down to a sub 1:40 lap. This was his first time on Spring Mountain.

There were a lot of great cars and drivers at this years’ event! Danny did a great job and had a great car he deserved to win. It was so close this year that one change in position would have giving me or Danny the clear win. Danny clearly beat me in the AutoX and the road course. I beat him in Style and Speed Stop.

Another way to make people "happy" is for someone in the "Pro-Touring" industy to sponsor a overall winner with a "Pro-Touring" car. So follow the One Lap of America format a little and break out the final awards to single out groups of cars.

Winner for Pro-Touring (Pre-1991)
Winner Truck / SUV
Winner 5th Gen Camaro
Winner Uber Perfrmance (Z06s, GTRs, GT2, etc.....)
Winner Tunner
Etc.....

Then "we" in the Pro-Touring community could have our champion. Instead of DSE sponsoring a road rally that everyone dislikes (or maybe just me) have them sponsor the Pro-Touring award. Have Lingenfelter sponsor the 5th Gen award…. Just an idea.

I love this event and don't want a lot of rules layered on just to make a small group happy. I think FM3 and Optima has done a great job putting on an event that is gaining in status and popularity. Next year will be even wilder, I can’t wait!

Stielow

[DOOM]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
See thats all you have to do.....:D

[96z28ss]

I changed the following:

• Fixed the ABS to have no faults with my new axle
• Changed the blower and added appox 50 HP
• Filled the fuel tank so I would not fuel starve out of Pahrump turn 2
• Fixed the clutch to allow faster shifts
• Fixed the transmission to allow better 2 - 3 shifts (Faster)
• Retuned the shocks
• Swapped brakes to Stop-Tech to re-balance the brakes
• Ran a lot of practice laps



For a 3600 lbs Hot Rod Power Tour car that idles at 700 RPM it goes OK. :thumbsup:

With some more laps on that track in my car I'm sure I could go 1:43 but getting down to a 1:42 in Red Devil I don't think is possible. It is just physics. Also I’m sure Danny with a little practice could go down to a sub 1:40 lap. This was his first time on Spring Mountain.

There were a lot of great cars and drivers at this years’ event! Danny did a great job and had a great car he deserved to win. It was so close this year that one change in position would have giving me or Danny the clear win. Danny clearly beat me in the AutoX and the road course. I beat him in Style and Speed Stop.

Another way to make people "happy" is for someone in the "Pro-Touring" industy to sponsor a overall winner with a "Pro-Touring" car. So follow the One Lap of America format a little and break out the final awards to single out groups of cars.

Winner for Pro-Touring (Pre-1991)
Winner Truck / SUV
Winner 5th Gen Camaro
Winner Uber Perfrmance (Z06s, GTRs, GT2, etc.....)
Winner Tunner
Etc.....

Then "we" in the Pro-Touring community could have our champion. Instead of DSE sponsoring a road rally that everyone dislikes (or maybe just me) have them sponsor the Pro-Touring award. Have Lingenfelter sponsor the 5th Gen award…. Just an idea.

I love this event and don't want a lot of rules layered on just to make a small group happy. I think FM3 and Optima has done a great job putting on an event that is gaining in status and popularity. Next year will be even wilder, I can’t wait!

Stielow

I'd actually like to see you bring a 5th Gen ZL1 next year. Would the times be marginally better, or a lot better?

[Stielow]

I'd actually like to see you bring a 5th Gen ZL1 next year. Would the times be marginally better, or a lot better?

Lets see a ZL-1 is 400 lbs heavier, 200 less HP and is bigger. I'm gunna say it would be 3 seconds a lap slower.

Stielow

[Bow Tie 67]

I'd actually like to see you bring a 5th Gen ZL1 next year. Would the times be marginally better, or a lot better?

I want to see him in a 67 Camaro :thumbsup:

[Gimpala63n70]

I was there to see this, and it was amazing. Both drivers were just awesome and I loved the fact that the other team let the white z06 borrow the master cylinder!

[GrabberGT]

I want to see him in a 67 Camaro :thumbsup:

I'd like to see him n anything BUT a Camaro. :D

On the subject of fairness, I'd like to see "Street Car" defined. Maybe let the wives come up with a list of items that define a car as street worthy and use that list as part of the style portion of the contest. Give the vehicles a 1 sec penalty for every item they do not have from the list and the rest would be fit and finish. Im sure all of the cars but a the CTS-V, Mercedes, and a couple others would have given up some valuable time there.

On another note, who do we have to talk to in order to get more than 45 minutes worth of TV coverage out of this? I'd love to see a feature on every car there in addition to a more detailed, play by play of the competition.

[preston]

Anybody have any info on the C6 Danny was driving ? I know the devil is in the details but I'm interested in the general specs on that car.

Ah the old street vs race debate - that's one I have with myself every day as one disappointing thing about my personal toy is the high level of NVH. Tolerable, but certainly not anywhere near modern OEM (its a built from scratch tube frame deal, so I probably shouldn't be so finicky).

But I still definitely like the idea of lights, wipers, HV, windows (preferably glass), and some semblance of carpet and upholstery. Of course its interesting to let the bare bones style cars (ie roadsters) show up too, but not fair in terms of competition.

Of course it would be great to have a pro drive the top cars back to back and contrast and compare, but that's not gonna happen except on an ad-hoc voluntary basis.

From a marketing perspective, what I would really like to see the most is a breakdown on all of the entries with build sheets and links to build threads or web pages if they exist. A great opportunity for everyone to tout their wares, and satisfy us internet junkies. Right now all I have is some photos of cool cars and a scoring sheet with no idea what was involved with most of these rigs.

I"m the guy at all the car shows rolling around on the ground trying to look under the cars, as sheet metal bores me after about 2 seconds.

[73CPCAMARO]

Anybody have any info on the C6 Danny was driving ? I know the devil is in the details but I'm interested in the general specs on that car.

Ah the old street vs race debate - that's one I have with myself every day as one disappointing thing about my personal toy is the high level of NVH. Tolerable, but certainly not anywhere near modern OEM (its a built from scratch tube frame deal, so I probably shouldn't be so finicky).

But I still definitely like the idea of lights, wipers, HV, windows (preferably glass), and some semblance of carpet and upholstery. Of course its interesting to let the bare bones style cars (ie roadsters) show up too, but not fair in terms of competition.

Of course it would be great to have a pro drive the top cars back to back and contrast and compare, but that's not gonna happen except on an ad-hoc voluntary basis.

From a marketing perspective, what I would really like to see the most is a breakdown on all of the entries with build sheets and links to build threads or web pages if they exist. A great opportunity for everyone to tout their wares, and satisfy us internet junkies. Right now all I have is some photos of cool cars and a scoring sheet with no idea what was involved with most of these rigs.

I"m the guy at all the car shows rolling around on the ground trying to look under the cars, as sheet metal bores me after about 2 seconds.

As far as a "pro" driving the top cars, the top cars already have top notch drivers driving them.

Why was no one crying about the incredible 1962 Corvette that was in last years OUSCI? Goodguys Street Machine of the year and SEMA GM design award winner. It did not even have a roof. I don't think that car has door glass either. Would that car not be allowed? Every car in this years competition had all the lights, wipers, glass needed to be street legal. This is not a "pro-touring" event. Some like more comfort features than others. All of these cars were street legal. Leave it at that.

[96z28ss]

As far as a "pro" driving the top cars, the top cars already have top notch drivers driving them.

Why was no one crying about the incredible 1962 Corvette that was in last years OUSCI? Goodguys Street Machine of the year and SEMA GM design award winner. It did not even have a roof. I don't think that car has door glass either. Would that car not be allowed? Every car in this years competition had all the lights, wipers, glass needed to be street legal. This is not a "pro-touring" event. Some like more comfort features than others. All of these cars were street legal. Leave it at that.

No it shouldn't be allowed! Is that what you would like to hear?
When you have a roadster there needs to be a higher level of saftey. It did not have a roll bar of any type that I saw.
The speed stop challenge and autocross don't have a very high risk, but sometimes accidents happen (Like DSE 69 Camaro RTTH event). The road course version of the event has very high speeds and if there was an issue with a car with no safety equipment and someone got hurt, it could end the event from ever happening again. NHRA IHRA SCCA etc.. No roof more rules!!

Not sure what state you live in, but there were cars at the event without wipers. You need that to pass DEQ to be street legal also need working turn signals, and horn etc... I'm not saying your car shouldn't have been there. I think that going forward in events to come there needs to be some rules added or split into classes.

[73CPCAMARO]

No it shouldn't be allowed! Is that what you would like to hear?
When you have a roadster there needs to be a higher level of saftey. It did not have a roll bar of any type that I saw.
The speed stop challenge and autocross don't have a very high risk, but sometimes accidents happen (Like DSE 69 Camaro RTTH event). The road course version of the event has very high speeds and if there was an issue with a car with no safety equipment and someone got hurt, it could end the event from ever happening again.

Not sure what state you live in, but there were cars at the event without wipers. You need that to pass DEQ to be street legal also need working turn signals, and horn etc... I'm not saying your car shouldn't have been there. I think that going forward in events to come there needs to be some rules added or split into classes.

If you want to get into safety, I totally agree. It should at least have a roll bar. That is why I have a cage. This is the fine line we are at. I don't have the answer you guys are looking for. Safety is very important and I don't want to see something bad happen out there at these really cool events.

As far as wipers go, that is a must and should be part of the tech inspection if it is not already.

[96z28ss]

If you want to get into safety, I totally agree. It should at least have a roll bar. That is why I have a cage. This is the fine line we are at. I don't have the answer you guys are looking for. Safety is very important and I don't want to see something bad happen out there at these really cool events.

I don't think anyone is attacking your car. Your car is bad ass. I took tons of pictures of it. I also saw you driving it out of SEMA in the rain.
I think there needs to be some rules/guide lines/classes moving forward. It will make the event better and continue its growth in the future.

[73CPCAMARO]

I don't think anyone is attacking your car. Your car is bad ass. I took tons of pictures of it. I also saw you driving it out of SEMA in the rain.
I think there needs to be some rules/guide lines/classes moving forward. It will make the event better and continue its growth in the future.

Thanks for the props on my car. I guess it is hard not to take it as an attack as I had one of the few cars with no door glass. I understand where some people are coming from. That is why I am looking into adding power windows, a stereo, and a cup holder over the winter. It won't hurt my performance.:D

[SundaySlackerMa]

Overall OPTIMA Ultimate Street Car

1st – Danny Popp, 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06

2nd – Mark Stielow, 1969 Camaro

Raybestos Performance Design Competition

1st – Phil Gerber, 1967 Chevy Nova

2nd – Curt Ukasic, 1962 Nova Runt

BFGoodrich Hot Lap Challenge

1st – Danny Popp, 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (Fastest time 01:42.208)

2nd – Pete Callaway, 2008 Callaway Corvette SC652 (Fastest time 01:44.749)

Ridetech Street Challenge Autocross Competition

1st – Danny Popp, 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (Fastest time 00:38.251)

2nd – Mary Pozzi, 1973 Chevrolet Camaro RS (Fastest time 00:39.414)

Wilwood Disc Brakes Speed Stop Challenge

1st – Gary Rubio, 2009 Nissan GTR (Fastest time 00:06.541)

2nd – Mark Stielow, 1969 Camaro (Fastest time 00:07.096)

[57hemicuda]

Thanks for the props on my car. I guess it is hard not to take it as an attack as I had one of the few cars with no door glass. I understand where some people are coming from. That is why I am looking into adding power windows, a stereo, and a cup holder over the winter. It won't hurt my performance.:D


I love the build, and wouldn't change a thing. I've been saying I was going to put door glass in mine since I built it, its yet to happen. There is always going to be somebody crying about something.

Look, there is always going to be someone with deeper pockets, or better access to parts or technoligy. All we can do is build what WE like, and enjoy beating on it, the rest is just noise. Ron

[Stielow]

Thanks for the props on my car. I guess it is hard not to take it as an attack as I had one of the few cars with no door glass. I understand where some people are coming from. That is why I am looking into adding power windows, a stereo, and a cup holder over the winter. It won't hurt my performance.:D

Brian

I love your car. I followed the whole build and it looked and worked great in real life. The stance is killer and it has a very serious look to it.

BTW where did you finish over all? I have not seen any overall results yet.

Stielow

[73CPCAMARO]

I love the build, and wouldn't change a thing. I've been saying I was going to put door glass in mine since I built it, its yet to happen. There is always going to be somebody crying about something.

Look there is always going to be someone with deeper pockets, or better access to parts or technoligy. All we can do is build what WE like, and enjoy beating on it, the rest is just noise. Ron

Ron,

I did build it the way I like it and thank you! It is now at the point I question if I should go to any of these events as the crying is taking all the fun out of it.

Brian

[SLO_Z28]

Ron,

I did build it the way I like it and thank you! It is now at the point I question if I should go to any of these events as the crying is taking all the fun out of it.

Brian

Ill still be there cheering you on!


I demand to have a shot at you at some point in the future, and not on slicks!

[73CPCAMARO]

Brian

I love your car. I followed the whole build and it looked and worked great in real life. The stance is killer and it has a very serious look to it.

BTW where did you finish over all? I have not seen any overall results yet.

Stielow

Mark,

I finished 3rd. I would love to see the point breakdown. I think I had 67 points to your 80. I am disappointed with myself on the brake challenge and a bit on the autocross. To be where you were last year on the road course (148.879) being my first time on that track and only the 4th time ever on a road course made me feel good. The judges seem to like my car and that really made the hard work of my Dad, Maier Racing, and my shop Car West Elite feel very proud.

You did a great job and I think your car is the best all around Camaro ever built. You have set the standard we all look up to.

Brian

[Van B]

I have been involved in these philosophical discussions before and came to the conclusion that you can't please all of the people all of the time. I admit I did not follow Brian's build thread but will probably go back and look at it when I can find some time. I think the execution was excellent. The flares, stance, and the paint to name a few.

Mark's Camaro is the benchmark in my opinion. It can rip your throat out as well as idle through rush hour without incident. (not that you would want to, but sometimes it just happens) I dream of being in a position to own one of his cars someday. Charley can't buy em all forever. :lol:

For these two guys to be that close to Danny in the C6 speaks volumes for the cars, preparation and their drivers.

Bottom line is I enjoy participating at these events when I can seeing how I measure up to these guys (and girl Mary). The rules will be what accomplishes the organizer's goals, but "run whatcha brung" (within reason) is what makes these things cool. They don't have to make a wagon class for Parkhurst, he gets satisfaction from beating smaller, lighter cars that, on paper, should be faster.

You can't please everybody. Don't mess with a good thing.

[GregWeld]

As far as a "pro" driving the top cars, the top cars already have top notch drivers driving them.

Why was no one crying about the incredible 1962 Corvette that was in last years OUSCI? Goodguys Street Machine of the year and SEMA GM design award winner. It did not even have a roof. I don't think that car has door glass either. Would that car not be allowed? Every car in this years competition had all the lights, wipers, glass needed to be street legal. This is not a "pro-touring" event. Some like more comfort features than others. All of these cars were street legal. Leave it at that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I'd vouch for that.... and frankly - this whole debate is nonsense.... Everyone knows - certainly anyone that has ever raced anything - rules are made to be broken... This is an INVITATIONAL... for fun... event... it's not a 1MM purse.... It's an invitational folks! "They"... spend the money to put it on -- "They" get to invite anyone "They" feel like. The owners/builders can decline the invite should they choose to. My guess is... not many that were offered an invite turned them down.

Why is it that only the people that DID NOT have anything to do with it - have such strong opinions about what the event is or isn't. You don't hear any whining from the participants do ya?? I'd be willing to bet THEY had the time of their lives!


BRIAN --- IF you don't come to the events -- I will personally hunt you down, and kick you in the knee cap! :D

[96z28ss]

I saw this at SEMA and was hoping that this would run at OUSCI. Not every day you see a 3rd gen set up like that.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/StanIROCZ/Paint/DSC04204.jpg

[DBasher]

What a bad ass event! I came down with 3 of my friends, 2 I've known since grade school. We rounded up enough money and support to make it happen, even borrowed a truck and enclosed trailer! None of us had ever been to this kind of deal before. The car has been down the 1/4 a few times and gets driven everywhere.
Half way through Saturday we had fixed a few issues with the car and helped the Daytona stay on track. By the end of the night, we had learned a bunch, met a lot of really great people and even got invited to do a photo shoot. I also learned who Danny Popp was, his and Marks name were constantly circling the crowds.

It's hard to set rules and define a class. The two groups, A and B, seemed to separate the fast and the really fast cars. Streetable? Any car can be streetable. I've got a buddy who races a street roadster at Bonneville. This year he ran 219mph backwards through the 4 mile, two weeks later he was at a cruise night.

All I can hope for in future events is that it's not just high end cars. I'm not talkin beaters, but well built non race cars...hard to define I guess... Make it so the Pipefitter with two kids and a F'ed up mortgage can come and have fun, just sayin.

Dan

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' 'BOUT!


Thanks for posting! And if you're from Renton - why didn't you look me up??

[Sieg]

Brian

I love your car. I followed the whole build and it looked and worked great in real life. The stance is killer and it has a very serious look to it.

BTW where did you finish over all? I have not seen any overall results yet.

Stielow

Mark,

I finished 3rd. I would love to see the point breakdown. I think I had 67 points to your 80. I am disappointed with myself on the brake challenge and a bit on the autocross. To be where you were last year on the road course (148.879) being my first time on that track and only the 4th time ever on a road course made me feel good. The judges seem to like my car and that really made the hard work of my Dad, Maier Racing, and my shop Car West Elite feel very proud.

You did a great job and I think your car is the best all around Camaro ever built. You have set the standard we all look up to.

Brian

Class acts and benchmark Camaro's. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

All I can hope for in future events is that it's not just high end cars. I'm not talkin beaters, but well built non race cars...hard to define I guess... Make it so the Pipefitter with two kids and a F'ed up mortgage can come and have fun, just sayin.

Dan

Could not agree more. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Why is it that only the people that DID NOT have anything to do with it - have such strong opinions about what the event is or isn't.

Greg, you know we are pals and all... but Jimi did say to keep the comments and opinions coming... it's not only about what the big names think, and I think that's just swell. :D

Oh, I went down to see Roy the other day... man your car is lookin and runnin like shiat. :lol:

[Steve1968LS2]

I'd like to see this get added to the rules. What street car doesn't have this?

Carpet
Wipers
Heat and the defrost must work.
Side windows must roll up and down.
test to see all lights working properly
horn

Lets stay true the title of the event. Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.

Wrong.. sorry

Why do I need wipers and a heater? I live in SoCal.. when I had a car with wipers I think I might have used them once.. I drove my cars 90 miles up the Dragon with no wipers.. think I'm doin' just fine :)

They already test for lights, blinkers, brake lights and a horn..

I sorta agree on side glass.. but who are we to tell some thier car isn't "a street car" just because they don't care to have side glass? Carpet? Really? Lots of cars came from the factory with just a rubber mat.. I think they were street cars.

Next thing people will demand the car has a nice audio system and cup holders.. lol

Great event.. I'm shocked that Popp won it in his bitchen 'Vette (ok, not really)


Not sure what state you live in, but there were cars at the event without wipers. You need that to pass DEQ to be street legal also need working turn signals, and horn etc....

No inspection in Cali..

[Steve1968LS2]

For the record, I love your car Brian. And in my opinion it totally fits the spirit of this event.

I would like to second this opinion.. badass car that I would be happy to own and drive.. Both his and Marks (and Mary's) should be inspirational to our hobby.

Well done to all the competitors! :thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

Ron,

I did build it the way I like it and thank you! It is now at the point I question if I should go to any of these events as the crying is taking all the fun out of it.

Brian

Don't let it bug you.. some cried that my car was a "race car" the first year when it won.. the interweb is full of opinions and armchair quarterbacking.

You have a great car that you love to drive and it kicks ass.. in the end what else matters? Look forward to runnin' with ya next season :)

Haters gonna' hate.. lol

[GregWeld]

Next thing people will demand the car has a nice audio system and cup holders.. lol



And just what the heck is wrong with cup holders?? :D




I seem to remember having a very good argument with some guy named Frisbee about cup holders NOT belonging in a '32 Ford.... To which I finally said - HEY! You know what? It's my car - and I pay the bill... start drawing up a console with cup holders!:D Beside that - they hold my sunglasses!

[GregWeld]

Greg, you know we are pals and all... but Jimi did say to keep the comments and opinions coming... it's not only about what the big names think, and I think that's just swell. :D

Oh, I went down to see Roy the other day... man your car is lookin and runnin like shiat. :lol:



You know what they say about opinions..... :rofl: :cheers:


Car went in there as a POS.... can't get any worse can it?? :willy:

[JMitch19]

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/052011/hater-prime.gif

[tjbruning]

Mr. Weld in action!

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/392788_10150928549805078_283142505077_21990105_894 568883_n.jpg

[96z28ss]

Wrong.. sorry

Why do I need wipers and a heater? I live in SoCal.. when I had a car with wipers I think I might have used them once.. I drove my cars 90 miles up the Dragon with no wipers.. think I'm doin' just fine :)

They already test for lights, blinkers, brake lights and a horn..

I sorta agree on side glass.. but who are we to tell some thier car isn't "a street car" just because they don't care to have side glass? Carpet? Really? Lots of cars came from the factory with just a rubber mat.. I think they were street cars.

Next thing people will demand the car has a nice audio system and cup holders.. lol

Great event.. I'm shocked that Popp won it in his bitchen 'Vette (ok, not really)



No inspection in Cali..

Steve,
Doesn't matter where you live a street car has wipers and heater to defrost the windows. (I'm talking fix roof car) You chose to remove those items. So you removed those items from your car and truck that you drive daily since you live in Socal?
Carpet or rubber mat is fine, I just used carpet as an example. I don't think a bare metal shell is a street car.

Myself or anyone here for that matter can not tell anyone what to do to their cars. However Optima can tell us what they consider a street car and define the rules of what The Ultimate Street Car is.
We can all throw out our opinions, they will chose the path on what they want for future events. The sport and event is growing, its evolving, its getting better.

[Vegas69]

I'm not seeing the hating and crying. I think you guys are getting your panties in a bunch over a little healthy dialog.

[Sandbagger]

More pics
http://www.bangshift.com/gallery/Optima-Ultimate-Street-Car-Invitational-2011-gallery.html

May have already been posted ...

[coolwelder62]

I think I will start looking to buy me a used V8Aussie Supercar.They have wiper's,side glass, 4doors,complete set of working head and tail lights.When I get it home all I will need to do is throw down carpet and install a radio in the dash,& cup holders,And I'm go to go for next year's Optima.Do any of you out there have problem's with this.:D :D

[Steve1968LS2]

And just what the heck is wrong with cup holders?? :D

I seem to remember having a very good argument with some guy named Frisbee about cup holders NOT belonging in a '32 Ford.... To which I finally said - HEY! You know what? It's my car - and I pay the bill... start drawing up a console with cup holders!:D Beside that - they hold my sunglasses!

To be honest I wouldn't mind a cup holder or two..

I'm not seeing the hating and crying. I think you guys are getting your panties in a bunch over a little healthy dialog.

Me neither.. it's a saying.. but knocking Hobart's Camaro because it doesn't fit someone's definition of a "street car" is funny.

His car was within the rules and he likes it.. good enough for me.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve,
Doesn't matter where you live a street car has wipers and heater to defrost the windows. (I'm talking fix roof car) You chose to remove those items. So you removed those items from your car and truck that you drive daily since you live in Socal?
Carpet or rubber mat is fine, I just used carpet as an example. I don't think a bare metal shell is a street car.

Myself or anyone here for that matter can not tell anyone what to do to their cars. However Optima can tell us what they consider a street car and define the rules of what The Ultimate Street Car is.
We can all throw out our opinions, they will chose the path on what they want for future events. The sport and event is growing, its evolving, its getting better.

So now "street car" equals "daily driver"? And I didn't build my truck, GM did.. My truck also doesn't have a Racepak or 10 layers of clearcoat.

And I do get what you're saying.. I'm just saying that it's rather subjective.. will AC be required next? People have different levels of what they find acceptable.. some don't mind wearing a jacket if it's cool out.. some don't mind rain-x.. some like the look of a fabricated metal floor.

What makes a car a "street car" is the ability to drive it on the street over long distances on a regular basis. This means it idles, doesn't overheat, takes pump gas, has the basic safety equipment (brake lights, turn signals, horn, etc).

To me a car with a straight gear race transmissing is less of a street car than one without a heater.. my that's just me. How streetable is a three-inch race clutch?

Each year Optima refines thier rules and each year the races will read the rules and see what "they can get away with".. it's how all racing works.

Again, congrats to everyone that had the gut to go out and beat on such a sweet collection of cars.. was a blast to cover.

[Steve1968LS2]

I saw this at SEMA and was hoping that this would run at OUSCI. Not every day you see a 3rd gen set up like that.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o33/StanIROCZ/Paint/DSC04204.jpg

Damn, I would like to get that guy's contact info.. would run that in the magazine for sure.. nice!

[Steve Chryssos]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/bdjhob/IMG_4148.jpg

Absolutely positively the hottest car there--and one of my most favoritest Camaros of all time. A lot.

[Steve1968LS2]

Absolutely positively the hottest car there--and one of my most favoritest Camaros of all time. A lot.

Didn't I see you having sex with that car when you thought nobody was lookin? lol

[Vegas69]

Me neither.. it's a saying.. but knocking Hobart's Camaro because it doesn't fit someone's definition of a "street car" is funny.

His car was within the rules and he likes it.. good enough for me.

If you or anybody else is referring to me, you completely misunderstood my comments. For the record, I'm not knocking anybody's car. If you feel I am, oh well.

[Steve1968LS2]

If you or anybody else is referring to me, you completely misunderstood my comments. For the record, I'm not knocking anybody's car. If you feel I am, oh well.

No.. not you.. or anyone in particular.. And I didn't mean "knocking" as in "the car is bad".. more like "It's not a streetcar because x"

The short answer is that it fit the definition of a streetcar as defined in the OUSCI rules.. if the rules change then I guess the car would have to change. Just like driver rules have changed over the years.

:)

[Vegas69]

No.. not you.. or anyone in particular.. And I didn't mean "knocking" as in "the car is bad".. more like "It's not a streetcar because x"

The short answer is that it fit the definition of a streetcar as defined in the OUSCI rules.. if the rules change then I guess the car would have to change. Just like driver rules have changed over the years.

:)

I agree....

[96z28ss]

What makes a car a "street car" is the ability to drive it on the street over long distances on a regular basis. This means it idles, doesn't overheat, takes pump gas, has the basic safety equipment (brake lights, turn signals, horn, etc).

To me a car with a straight gear race transmissing is less of a street car than one without a heater.. my that's just me. How streetable is a three-inch race clutch?

Each year Optima refines thier rules and each year the races will read the rules and see what "they can get away with".. it's how all racing works.


Well see everyone has a different opinion on what they would consider a street car, even by what you consider streetable some would not of been able to compete.
I heard some cars tranny clanking and I know I smelt my fair share of race fuel at the event.
I've voluteered, I've been a spectator and to me this event is really getting better and better every year.
One thing we can all look forward to is next years event and what cars will be racing to take the title.

[Motormouth]

What a bad ass event! I came down with 3 of my friends, 2 I've known since grade school. We rounded up enough money and support to make it happen, even borrowed a truck and enclosed trailer! None of us had ever been to this kind of deal before. The car has been down the 1/4 a few times and gets driven everywhere.
Half way through Saturday we had fixed a few issues with the car and helped the Daytona stay on track. By the end of the night, we had learned a bunch, met a lot of really great people and even got invited to do a photo shoot. I also learned who Danny Popp was, his and Marks name were constantly circling the crowds.

It's hard to set rules and define a class. The two groups, A and B, seemed to separate the fast and the really fast cars. Streetable? Any car can be streetable. I've got a buddy who races a street roadster at Bonneville. This year he ran 219mph backwards through the 4 mile, two weeks later he was at a cruise night.

All I can hope for in future events is that it's not just high end cars. I'm not talkin beaters, but well built non race cars...hard to define I guess... Make it so the Pipefitter with two kids and a F'ed up mortgage can come and have fun, just sayin.

Dan

What a great weekend, one of the coolest events we've ever been a part of! We had a blast! Hope we can make it down next year, brotha! :cheers:

[Steve Chryssos]

Didn't I see you having sex with that car when you thought nobody was lookin? lol

Wasn't me.. :rolleyes:

[GrabberGT]

Why is it that only the people that DID NOT have anything to do with it - have such strong opinions about what the event is or isn't. You don't hear any whining from the participants do ya?? I'd be willing to bet THEY had the time of their lives!


I cant say its a strong opinion because I still read, view, and follow the event as much as anyone can without being there. But...

I have an opinion because I own and or am shopping for many of the parts offered by vendors supporting this event.

I have an opinion because Im a fan and like to root for the home team. (Go Pro Touring!)

I have an opinion because I am the target audience and not those invited. The sponsors did not rent out the track just to throw a thank you party for everyone using their products.

Oh and they asked for it.

For the record, I followed Brians build every time he posted an update and even on days he didnt. Its an incredible machine and I think its cool as expletive for being driven on the street and hope some day I'll get to see it run in person. But it just doesnt fit into my definition of a Pro Touring car. Its a street driven purpose built autocross car. Being that this was the Optima Street Car Challenge, it fits for the sponsor. This after all is not Chris' Pro Touring Challenge. I think we are all just looking for a way to level the playing field for what most of us are building and believe to be a Pro Touring car.

[Steve1968LS2]

Well see everyone has a different opinion on what they would consider a street car, even by what you consider streetable some would not of been able to compete.
I heard some cars tranny clanking and I know I smelt my fair share of race fuel at the event.
I've voluteered, I've been a spectator and to me this event is really getting better and better every year.
One thing we can all look forward to is next years event and what cars will be racing to take the title.

Yep, and some cars had to be shut off to be put into reverse and then restarted..

Every year the rules change a bit and the racers read the rules to see what they can get away with.. just like any racing.

Fun to watch and one of the best events out there. And thanks for coming out to volunteer.. the event couldn't happen without you guys (yes, even Greg) ;)

[Stuart Adams]

Hard fought competition between friends controlled by a stopwatch. The variety of cars was nice to see. A lot of great points discussed.

The event has really evolved over the years. It's great to see some of the same cars getting faster from year to year. To me that is what this is all about. Competing within yourself to get better and see where you stand among peers. We all know there is no such thing as the Ultimate car.

Congrats to all that participated, without you the event doesn't happen. I'm hopeful the pro touring community keeps being represented and people don't start passing on the event because they feel they can't compete.

Thanks to all the optima crew and volunteers even Greg.

[Jr]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/bdjhob/IMG_4148.jpg

Absolutely positively the hottest car there--and one of my most favoritest Camaros of all time. A lot.

I couldn't agree more! I love this car. :thumbsup:

[mpozziCPL]

I cant say its a strong opinion because I still read, view, and follow the event as much as anyone can without being there. But...

I have an opinion because I own and or am shopping for many of the parts offered by vendors supporting this event.

I have an opinion because Im a fan and like to root for the home team. (Go Pro Touring!)

I have an opinion because I am the target audience and not those invited. The sponsors did not rent out the track just to throw a thank you party for everyone using their products.

Oh and they asked for it.

For the record, I followed Brians build every time he posted an update and even on days he didnt. Its an incredible machine and I think its cool as expletive for being driven on the street and hope some day I'll get to see it run in person. But it just doesnt fit into my definition of a Pro Touring car. Its a street driven purpose built autocross car. Being that this was the Optima Street Car Challenge, it fits for the sponsor. This after all is not Chris' Pro Touring Challenge. I think we are all just looking for a way to level the playing field for what most of us are building and believe to be a Pro Touring car.

Of the responses I've read for this thread, this is one of the best. A build can take many twists and turns but in the end, it should be what's envisioned by the owner. Owners and builders look to competition and performance of parts to get their ideas and OUSCI provides that venue very nicely. It's easy to fall into that trap of building something event-specific and once you start down that path, it's a long, long road to the finish.

Regarding "race" vs "Street," this year's OUSCI definitely had "track/race" cars in the field that were extremely well driven and very well prepared. Did they comply with OUSCI rules and could they be driven on public roadways? Yes and as such, were allowed to compete. That said, were some of these cars ones I'd like to drive as confirmed and compliant "street" rides? Uhh ... no and the reason is they're not built with that as a key focal point. It's a personal observation ...

Contrary to hopes and dreams, OUSCI isn't for the Average Joe. Your "Joe built" car isn't going to win OUSCI or even place high and no matter how good you are on the jungle bars, that top bar's going to be just out of reach. I can almost guarantee you that Danny and Co. will get that Z06 a bit prettier, a tad less "race car," and get as many of those Style & Design points as possible for next year's rodeo. Danny Popp did an outstanding job and set a new "OUSCI Fast Lap" never having driven that track before last Saturday and took us all to school on the Autocross course. He's a worthy Champion!!

Chris ... build your car your way as you want to enjoy it for years to come!!

Mary Pozzi

[coolwelder62]

Well said Mary.And Congrat's on your sucsess at SEMA/Optima.:thumbsup: Scott M.

[Vegas69]

Yep, you nailed it Mary. No wonder you are making the big bucks writing for Camaro Performers. :D

[ALLSPEED01]

After finally returning home home after the 11 day treck to the OUSCI and back. I have had plenty of time to reflect on the event and what it takes to get there and what it means to compete in this event. Was it worth the 12 days away from family and work, several thousands of dollars in fuel and expenses, driving through the rockies in a blizzard and everything else...HELL YES!! This event is the pinnacle of what we all do. It is very well run (thanks Jimi and all the volunteers) and as with any event it will continue to evolve. Being a participant in the event I realized very early on that I need to focus on individual accomplishments like building an 1100 hp real street car that survived over an hour on Las Vegas Blvd in a friday night traffic jamb and then driving over 100 miles to pahrump in freezing weather, rather than how to compete with more purpose built cars and professional drivers. With only 3 autocross laps and under 10 laps on a road course prior to OUSCI I had a better change of hitting the jackpot at MGM than beating the legends like Mary, Mark, Kyle and now Danny. Like I explained to my wife it is like an average guy getting to play in the Super Bowl! There is absolutely nothing wrong with it and it is awesome just to be one of the 55 that gets that opportunity. I think if everyone wants to change this event with more rules and fully prepped race cars it will loose some of its luster. We already have SCCA, Formula One, Nascar and many more full of rules and usually won by the team with the best funding (so they can bring heaters and tire warmers of course!) This event needs to continue to let the average Joe have the opportunity to run street cars at a competitive event, even on a limited budget. By the way I would drive Brian's car and many others on the street and love every minute of it! I never drive a car like this in the snow or with the windows up and the A/C on! They are all weekend toys and should be built and driven exactly how the owner wants them to. I do agree that an overall winner is needed, but it would be great to have other awards without getting carried away like import, modern, and pro-touring. You could also run a professional and amatuer driver class because it comes down more to this than the cars. All the cars at this years event were capable of at least being competitive, all the drivers were not. Congratulations to everyone that had the opportunity to compete in this event and remember you are at the top of your game just for being there. Remember all of these events were put together for us weekend warriors to go out and beat on our cars and drive on a real track and learn from the pros! Other than that it is about showcasing what these average cars can do with talented builders and awesome aftermarket parts. This is really what its all about, building awareness for the industry and putting the real muscle in musclecars! If you want 100% real street cars maybe a Prius should run next year it gets great fuel milage and is totally reliable!:lol: What fun would that be???

[tazzz2_ca]

Two cents from North of the Boarder LOL....

First off personally I have to say "Brian" you built a way cool car... It meets your needs (and this event) in my opinion,, really sweet car bud...

Now as for the rules, Jimi and the gang at Optima are doing there best.. They have constantly created a fun and exciting event to showcase our rides and the up coming builds (along with some here that are being changed during mid-build) as a testament to just that... Helping to organize and being around a few events we all find areas for improvement in anyone's event,,, but that's because the perfect event left on the last train to Hell a week prior to any individual event LOL....

These people spend a lot of time & money trying to make the best Dam event possible happen so lets celebrate their efforts even more than we do currently as a possible area for improvement....

Safety matters, Heck we're all three times seven gang,,,, a rule shouldn't be the motivating factor here... If your car needs it, if the event warrants it,, you should know already because things happen way fast in the game we all playing in.... Some organizers won't and can't respond or set rules because it immediately opens the doors to personal legal liability and no one trying to create fun for you and I should have to be put in that position (Insert Dam lawyers joke here LOL)...

Personally I was reluctant to place cages in my street cars because it's next to impossible to get insurance up here in Ontario if they see it in the appraisal photos of the car.... Now here is the common sense side,,, I bent the rules (like everyone's talking about and decided to hide it as a blind cage).... It's not perfect, but sure makes a lot of sense given the events we are enjoying... I had Kevin drive my car in the Optima and I wanted to make sure he had extra safety measures that included a fire system on board,,,, I sure didn't need a rule to tell me that....

The 2011 Optima was AWESOME!!! and these threads are great as we share the experience together too....

Danny Congrats,,, well done indeed bud.

All the participants (and board members) can thankfully say wow we just, yet again, experienced one of the most exciting car guys dream events.... A special thanks Cam, Jimi, Bill and all the great people that make this happen.

[GregWeld]

Love you Albert! LOL


Well said.... very well said.

[jaymz]

There seems to be alot of people thinking that Danny Popp won becuase the Z06 is a "racecar with license plates". The car in question is 2006 Z06 with a camshaft and headers, stock heads and bottom end. I has different leaf springs, shocks and bushings. Nothing custom just a bunch of off the shelf parts that Danny has put on other customers cars and knows that the "system" works. This car still has AC, power windows, NAV, etc. It's far from a racecar than most think. This car still uses the stock suspension mounting points, stock tranny and rear end.

Sure it has some aero pieces (splitter and wing) but that alone does not make it a racecar.

This car was just put together and did well, becuase of the guy driving. He could of done the same thing in many of the other cars that were there.

In my mind a true racecar is a car that is build from a pile of tube steel and carbon fiber (think GT1 type cars), not a mass produced street car like the white Z06 that he drove.

[Ron in SoCal]

There seems to be alot of people thinking that Danny Popp won becuase the Z06 is a "racecar with license plates". The car in question is 2006 Z06 with a camshaft and headers, stock heads and bottom end. I has different leaf springs, shocks and bushings. Nothing custom just a bunch of off the shelf parts that Danny has put on other customers cars and knows that the "system" works. This car still has AC, power windows, NAV, etc. It's far from a racecar than most think. This car still uses the stock suspension mounting points, stock tranny and rear end.

Sure it has some aero pieces (splitter and wing) but that alone does not make it a racecar.

This car was just put together and did well, becuase of the guy driving. He could of done the same thing in many of the other cars that were there.

In my mind a true racecar is a car that is build from a pile of tube steel and carbon fiber (think GT1 type cars), not a mass produced street car like the white Z06 that he drove.

Ya missed the part about the aftermarket exhaust tips...:lol:

Seriously Jaymz, welcome to the site and nice first post. I'm curious - and to lend cred to your comments - are you a friend of Danny's or did you work on the car? If you are a friend, tell Danny to come hang out here more often!

Side note - we're on what, 14 pages on this topic. PT managed 10 comments.

[preston]

I think some of you guys are a little bit defensive, we are just having a dialog on what we each like about this event, its not an attack on your car to say I think a "street car invitational" should mean you have side windows. That doesn't mean you shouldn't defend your viewpoint that door glass is not a requirement for a street car. It doesn't mean we don't like your car or want to iron-clad no exceptions exclude it from the event. And roadsters and skeleton cars are whole 'nother issue.

I'm more bothered by having a Z06 in the event.

I guess in my mind the point of this event was "Ultimate shop built and custom cars that are street legal competition". But I am wrong because it is called "Ultimate Street Car" competition. But in that case I don't see why the whole event wouldn't eventually be dominated by late model Vipers, Vettes, and Porsches, like any fast group at your average HPDE. I understand its good to bring them in as a baseline, but should they be eligible for the competition ?

If the point is only to have the ultimate street car, then that's a different take, but the reason we at lat-g are all excited by this event is because of the unique cars. To me that's more core to this event than whether the car is daily driver vs barely street legal.

That's a whole new debate as what is factory vs custom ? Since I built most of my car from scratch I consider most of lat-g rides to be factory cars LOL !

Back to the "street car" debate I guess I will have to concede that the only reasonable and valid criteria is that the car is street legal and can survive the "torture drive", kind of like how Hot Rod runs their "street" drag car competitions. The only other thing I would add is I though street car drag racing in the early 90's was totally awesome with back halved cars with rollup windows and too much power running sketchy 8's, and became boring (to me) when they turned into pro-mod cars with license plates.

Again, nobody seems to be knocking the event or not giving a huge kudos to Optima and the competitors or sponsors, we're just discussing what we like and what gets us excited about this event.

[c10addict]

Well we came with a car that has heat, A/C, Carpet, kickin stereo, all the glass, all the lights, and all the amenities of a brand new car.. It is a lot heavier than when it was new.. We finished it in July and has over 5000 miles of every kind of driving condition imaginable under its belt.. When we heard there was snow at the pass we figured we are from the east and we are not afraid of snow so we went for it (thought it would make good pics too :lol: ) So everyone back off!! :D We changed all the spring rates before the event and really didn't get to shake the car down and Curt had his hands full on the Autocross as the car had a lot of body roll.. We had a great time and got to meet a lot of great people.. We were lucky enough to compete last year and were honored this year when chosen again.. My only opinion is I feel EVERY car should have to make the drive.. It is the Street Car invitational after all.. If you break down then by all means load it up and trailer it and give it hell fixing it (Kudos Vinny) but to load it at SEMA and trailer it there I don't agree with.. The drive should be just as much of a segment of the competition as the others.. Just my opinion and not worth much at all! :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Well we came with a car that has heat, A/C, Carpet, kickin stereo, all the glass, all the lights, and all the amenities of a brand new car.. It is a lot heavier than when it was new.. We finished it in July and has over 5000 miles of every kind of driving condition imaginable under its belt.. When we heard there was snow at the pass we figured we are from the east and we are not afraid of snow so we went for it (thought it would make good pics too :lol: ) So everyone back off!! :D We changed all the spring rates before the event and really didn't get to shake the car down and Curt had his hands full on the Autocross as the car had a lot of body roll.. We had a great time and got to meet a lot of great people.. We were lucky enough to compete last year and were honored this year when chosen again.. My only opinion is I feel EVERY car should have to make the drive.. It is the Street Car invitational after all.. If you break down then by all means load it up and trailer it and give it hell fixing it (Kudos Vinny) but to load it at SEMA and trailer it there I don't agree with.. The drive should be just as much of a segment of the competition as the others.. Just my opinion and not worth much at all! :thumbsup:



HEY!!! I tried to disqualify you in tech when I discovered the stereo amp in the trunk wasn't SFI approved..... :D :cheers:

[GregWeld]

...Again, nobody seems to be knocking the event or not giving a huge kudos to Optima and the competitors or sponsors, we're just discussing what we like and what gets us excited about this event.

I think this sums it up.... "what gets us excited about this event".

There is something for everybody out there... road racing - auto crossing - basically an 1/8 mile drag race with a big smokey stop tossed in.... There are new cars - pro builds - home builds - track cars - hot rods - show cars - big inch turbos - new skool - old skool - Fords - Chevys - Pontiacs - imports.... That ought to get the average car nut case interested shouldn't it?? :woot:

[73CPCAMARO]

Well we came with a car that has heat, A/C, Carpet, kickin stereo, all the glass, all the lights, and all the amenities of a brand new car.. It is a lot heavier than when it was new.. We finished it in July and has over 5000 miles of every kind of driving condition imaginable under its belt.. When we heard there was snow at the pass we figured we are from the east and we are not afraid of snow so we went for it (thought it would make good pics too :lol: ) So everyone back off!! :D We changed all the spring rates before the event and really didn't get to shake the car down and Curt had his hands full on the Autocross as the car had a lot of body roll.. We had a great time and got to meet a lot of great people.. We were lucky enough to compete last year and were honored this year when chosen again.. My only opinion is I feel EVERY car should have to make the drive.. It is the Street Car invitational after all.. If you break down then by all means load it up and trailer it and give it hell fixing it (Kudos Vinny) but to load it at SEMA and trailer it there I don't agree with.. The drive should be just as much of a segment of the competition as the others.. Just my opinion and not worth much at all! :thumbsup:

Your Nova is bad ass! I have a 62 Nova Conv. but it is nothing like yours (nothing is):thumbsup: . I love to see builds like yours get driven hard. Beautiful cars like yours push the limits of customizing that is both incredible to look at and function like cars should.
As far as cars not making the cruise out to the track, that is a big no no. I saw that only 38 of the 55 made it. They did not get the 10 points. If they broke, I understand the deduction and get if fixed. If they just decided not to drive because it was too far or did not want to get wet, then they should not be there.

[sik68]

I think this sums it up.... "what gets us excited about this event".

There is something for everybody out there... road racing - auto crossing - basically an 1/8 mile drag race with a big smokey stop tossed in.... There are new cars - pro builds - home builds - track cars - hot rods - show cars - big inch turbos - new skool - old skool - Fords - Chevys - Pontiacs - imports.... That ought to get the average car nut case interested shouldn't it?? :woot:

:bow: Yes. Optima is holding the recipe for success, and they're smart enough to keep the field diverse. As long as the PT genre continues to show a ton of sexy cars SEMA, we'll most certainly keep getting the majority of the OUSCI invites.

Although they will need a "Popp" rule or there may never be another winner. :) The guy should be picking up cones in 2012.

[coolwelder62]

Well we came with a car that has heat, A/C, Carpet, kickin stereo, all the glass, all the lights, and all the amenities of a brand new car.. It is a lot heavier than when it was new.. We finished it in July and has over 5000 miles of every kind of driving condition imaginable under its belt.. When we heard there was snow at the pass we figured we are from the east and we are not afraid of snow so we went for it (thought it would make good pics too :lol: ) So everyone back off!! :D We changed all the spring rates before the event and really didn't get to shake the car down and Curt had his hands full on the Autocross as the car had a lot of body roll.. We had a great time and got to meet a lot of great people.. We were lucky enough to compete last year and were honored this year when chosen again.. My only opinion is I feel EVERY car should have to make the drive.. It is the Street Car invitational after all.. If you break down then by all means load it up and trailer it and give it hell fixing it (Kudos Vinny) but to load it at SEMA and trailer it there I don't agree with.. The drive should be just as much of a segment of the competition as the others.. Just my opinion and not worth much at all! :thumbsup:Let me tell you guy's about Curt,and the runt.Curt drove this thing like a red headed step child at Optima.He was frickin driving the crap out of this car.It's smokin cool,Over the top build quality.I watched him at Heidt's shoot also.He beat the crap out of it there.The RPM guy's are even more fun than Jason Childress.:lol::thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Scott M.

[c10addict]

Let me tell you guy's about Curt,and the runt.Curt drove this thing like a red headed step child at Optima.He was frickin driving the crap out of this car.It's smokin cool,Over the top build quality.I watched him at Heidt's shoot also.He beat the crap out of it there.The RPM guy's are even more fun than Jason Childress.:lol::thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Scott M.

To include us in the same sentence as Jason Childress is an insult!! Lol... GRAVE DIGGER!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the compliments.. The beating there was mild.. The car has seen a lot worse!! i can not wait until we get Gerry (the Runts owner) in the car and watch her beat the crap out of it!!!

[Cris@JCG]

The Runt is one of my all time favorite Chevy II builds.. I got to see it @ SEMA & Optima for the first time this year.. Also meet Curt & his crew with Gerry the owner.. She was very happy with car RPM built.. Looking forward to see the car run next year @ some of the events..

I think cup holders should be a requirement for Optima! :D


Well we came with a car that has heat, A/C, Carpet, kickin stereo, all the glass, all the lights, and all the amenities of a brand new car.. It is a lot heavier than when it was new.. We finished it in July and has over 5000 miles of every kind of driving condition imaginable under its belt.. When we heard there was snow at the pass we figured we are from the east and we are not afraid of snow so we went for it (thought it would make good pics too :lol: ) So everyone back off!! :D We changed all the spring rates before the event and really didn't get to shake the car down and Curt had his hands full on the Autocross as the car had a lot of body roll.. We had a great time and got to meet a lot of great people.. We were lucky enough to compete last year and were honored this year when chosen again.. My only opinion is I feel EVERY car should have to make the drive.. It is the Street Car invitational after all.. If you break down then by all means load it up and trailer it and give it hell fixing it (Kudos Vinny) but to load it at SEMA and trailer it there I don't agree with.. The drive should be just as much of a segment of the competition as the others.. Just my opinion and not worth much at all! :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

In my eyes, the road ralley doesn't test these cars. It may be a good litmus test for a drag car, not for a road racer. You could drive a sprint cup car from Vegas to Pahrump if it had a full tank. Road racers can take extreme temperature and torture. I don't think it should be done away with, I just don't think it's a way to sift out the race cars. If they want to do that, they will need to come up with standards that each car must meet. If you can get it registered at the DMV, it's hard for me to say it's not a street car regardless.

We should be happy there is a show to put our pony in...... Whatever rules they make is a OK with me. I will go back and say that it's unlikely any vintage car will take out a modern Z06, Viper, Porsche with a reasonable driver. It is the Ulimtate street car, not, lets handicap it so a muscle car can win. I always like to compare myself to modern cars when I race. It's fun to take down a viper, vette, gtr, etc...

[CRCRFT78]

I've been reading this thread and all I've got to say is that I'm still kicking myself in the ass for having two tickets and not making it out there this year. :lolhit:

[jaymz]

Ya missed the part about the aftermarket exhaust tips...:lol:

Seriously Jaymz, welcome to the site and nice first post. I'm curious - and to lend cred to your comments - are you a friend of Danny's or did you work on the car? If you are a friend, tell Danny to come hang out here more often!

Side note - we're on what, 14 pages on this topic. PT managed 10 comments.

I am a friend on Danny's and have seen the Z06 up close. I have seen that car from it's first time on the track as bone stock as GM made it to what it is today.

I just wanted to clear the air on the Z06. It's not much more than a modded street car and could be replicated in a couple of weeks with another stock car and about 25k in parts + labor. It would seem that the intent of SEMA is to showcase aftermarket parts. This car is exactly that. There is not one part on this car that can not be ordered by telephone today.

I do see the point of the newer cars vs old older cars in the same competition. I do not have the answer on how that can be equalled. Maybe there needs to be a split class by year? Older that 1985 go to the historic class, newer than 1986 run in the modern class. Also make the modern class open. No restrictions as far as tires, body, etc.

I think the "show" portion of the event is very biased toward the older cars. Is the scoring for this section public knowledge?

[ivmotor]

I mostly wanted to say thanks to a bunch of people for allowing me to beat my car mercilessly, but I have to chime in on a couple items I see here.

I am extremely grateful to even be considered of the caliber to be involved in this event. I volunteered two years ago and see that it has grown significantly more competitive since then. These cars are built to be monsters on the street and the track so making a set of rules to govern such a diverse group of cars will be very difficult.

I really liked the road rally and was disappointed that some people blew it off. I was even more disappointed it had such a low point value. It seems that the usability of the car would be a prominent feature of a "street car". It ought to be a bigger part of the competition.

I absolutely had a blast on the road course. I think the warm up laps and seperate three timed laps are a great way to rank the field. I was still learning the course on the third lap, but if I wished to be more competitive I should have scheduled a track day. The only gripe I could offer is track temp and condition. Cold tracks suck. People who ran in the afternoon had a stickier track to run on. I don't think there is a fix for that. That is part of racing.

The autocross was fantastic. The design was magnificent. I've had several dreams since then with the throttle pegged and smoke pouring off the 335's on the 180. The morning guys had to deal with puddles. Again probably no way to fix it.

The design challenge is another area to seperate the street stuff from the race stuff. Maybe we should offer points for street accessories like cup holders, real seats with lumbar and recline features, audio/video systems and garage door openers. Cars with change in the ash tray get 100 points. Starbucks receipts crumpled under the seats 50 points. French fries stuck in seatbelt receptacle 20 points.

I was bested in overall rank by cars that did not compete in all facets of the competition. That should not happen.

My thanks list in no particular order: Mike and Wilwood for finding a set of brakes for my pig and making it possible for me to be at SEMA, Cam and Optima for giving me a chance to play with the big boys at OUSCI, Jimi and FM3 for such a kick ass event, Kris at Sierra NV paint for getting a fresh coat on with two days to spare and all my dudes at ivmotorsports for helping me deal with all the normal issues that happen right before trying to race.

[preston]

Can we get a link to your car ?

[GregWeld]

Can we get a link to your car ?



He's got the killer fat fendered AKA: Widebody VOLVO.... Which was so much fun to watch out there!

[MarkM66]

A little info on the winning vette;

http://powersource.optimabatteries.com/cars/a-closer-look-at-danny-popp-and-his-winning-corvette/

[ivmotor]

A little info on the winning vette;

http://powersource.optimabatteries.com/cars/a-closer-look-at-danny-popp-and-his-winning-corvette/

Awesome car, awesome driver. Hard to beat combo!

[Flash68]

A little info on the winning vette;

http://powersource.optimabatteries.com/cars/a-closer-look-at-danny-popp-and-his-winning-corvette/

From that article: "Danny’s driving ability is certainly on par with that of any of his fellow OUSCI competitors.."

Only on par? :lol:

[Neil B]

I am a friend on Danny's and have seen the Z06 up close. I have seen that car from it's first time on the track as bone stock as GM made it to what it is today.

I just wanted to clear the air on the Z06. It's not much more than a modded street car and could be replicated in a couple of weeks with another stock car and about 25k in parts + labor. It would seem that the intent of SEMA is to showcase aftermarket parts. This car is exactly that. There is not one part on this car that can not be ordered by telephone today.

I do see the point of the newer cars vs old older cars in the same competition. I do not have the answer on how that can be equalled. Maybe there needs to be a split class by year? Older that 1985 go to the historic class, newer than 1986 run in the modern class. Also make the modern class open. No restrictions as far as tires, body, etc.

I think the "show" portion of the event is very biased toward the older cars. Is the scoring for this section public knowledge?

I'm not really understanding the new vs. old debate with this competition. Are people really upset that a late model Z06 won the event, beating out '69 Camaros with clean-sheet modern suspensions, ZR-1 engines and brakes, ABS, and whatever else the builder is capable of building? In my mind, there is no new vs. old in this competition. You could bring an IMSA GT2-chassied '69 Camaro if you were so inclined. I'm not debating that it's difficult to engineer and build a car that's more capable than a modern factory-engineered supercar. But this is a competition with very little rules or structure on what's allowed. The best driver with the best tool wins. Period.

[Vegas69]

Neil, it comes down to pyhsics. You can rework a Camaro forever and it will NEVER out perform modern engineering. It's simply to top heavy, nose heavy, and heavy. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

Neil, it comes down to pyhsics. You can rework a Camaro forever and it will NEVER out perform modern engineering. It's simply to top heavy, nose heavy, and heavy. :unibrow:


Dude -- Get yourself some balsa wood and do a cored laminate floor next time... some lexan windshield and back glass... take them stupid windows out of the doors... and the headliner while you're at it... Dump the A/C -- you won't need that with no side windows... Can't hear the stereo with those big dumps, so it can go... and nobody is climbing in over the roll cage to the back seat - so you can dump that too....

EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA


Oh wait -- I just went out and looked at the track car.... seems somebody already thought about all that! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


On a serious note -- the drag coefficient of the Corvette has to be about HALF of what some of those cars were pushing...

I've been saying ever since wheeling them around Bondurant and Spring Mountain --- "that Corvette is about the best car a guy could buy - it's a BARGAIN given what we spend to make our cars HALF as fast or brake half as well...." All that and the A/C blows cold!

[73CPCAMARO]

One way to beat a modern Corvette is to do like my car... and my car weighs almost 3200 lbs. I do have 200 lbs of lead added to the rear for balance and the minimum weight for SCCA autocross. I have been kicking myself since Sunday. Danny and Mark had 80 points to my 72. If I would have gone just .5 seconds faster on the road course and improved my brake challenge by .2 seconds, I would have won. The woulda shoulda coulda can be played all day long. I did not my best at the time and I know what to do next time. I am sure everyone else could say the same thing also. But my point is, the Raybestos Performance Design Challenge does make up a lot of ground. I got 18 points for 4th place and Danny got 0. Next year, he will have to make some major changes to get those points. He probably will do something.

[GregWeld]

One way to beat a modern Corvette is to do like my car... and my car weighs almost 3200 lbs. I do have 200 lbs of lead added to the rear for balance and the minimum weight for SCCA autocross. I have been kicking myself since Sunday. Danny and Mark had 80 points to my 72. If I would have gone just .5 seconds faster on the road course and improved my brake challenge by .2 seconds, I would have won. The woulda shoulda coulda can be played all day long. I did not my best at the time and I know what to do next time. I am sure everyone else could say the same thing also. But my point is, the Raybestos Performance Design Challenge does make up a lot of ground. I got 18 points for 4th place and Danny got 0. Next year, he will have to make some major changes to get those points. He probably will do something.


HAHAHAHAHA Oh man, Brian! Now you're getting to be like Mark Stielow! He spent a bunch of time just working on the StopTech challenge = back when it was set up to use the G meters(?) -- you had a speed to reach before you could hit the brakes..... So he worked on all manor of stuff to get that down --- THEN they changed the event! :lol:

Add some ABS to the car..... That seems to really really work well for that type of event!

[skatinjay27]

One way to beat a modern Corvette is to do like my car... and my car weighs almost 3200 lbs. I do have 200 lbs of lead added to the rear for balance and the minimum weight for SCCA autocross. I have been kicking myself since Sunday. Danny and Mark had 80 points to my 72. If I would have gone just .5 seconds faster on the road course and improved my brake challenge by .2 seconds, I would have won. The woulda shoulda coulda can be played all day long. I did not my best at the time and I know what to do next time. I am sure everyone else could say the same thing also. But my point is, the Raybestos Performance Design Challenge does make up a lot of ground. I got 18 points for 4th place and Danny got 0. Next year, he will have to make some major changes to get those points. He probably will do something.if you would have won you'd really be catching a shiz storm for not having windows!:D

[73CPCAMARO]

if you would have won you'd really be catching a shiz storm for not having windows!:D

Oh, I know. :yes: That would have been the reason I won. :unibrow:

Danny and Mark were the class of the competition. We will see if I get a rematch.

[Track Junky]

Oh, I know. :yes: That would have been the reason I won. :unibrow:

Danny and Mark were the class of the competition. We will see if I get a rematch.

Windows Shmindows!!

I'm pretty darn sure you are going to make a point of getting a rematch and who the hell would not want to see you run again anyways!!

Your car belongs at these events!!

I must say though, big props to Mark for running a 3600 lb car as well as he did.

[57hemicuda]

I helped Mark wrench on Devil at VIR, when he had some problems. The thing that really suprized me about the car is how mild manored, and stock it seems. Starts, idles, and drives like a new car, but yet its a beast. Shows you how well engineered it is, and what a good driver Mark really is. Ron

[tazzz2_ca]

Hell Mark, Danny, Brian, Mary or Brian,,,,, they all did a great job out there and all their cars where awesome... This is kind of fun splitting hairs on who did what,,, all 51 cars where pretty much exceptional and the drivers & cars at the top of the pack are truly awesome see ... Congrats to you all...

[bret]

Wow 16 pages on OUSCI!!
Not surprisingly, an impressive response
RideTech has been a sponsor of the OUSCI since its inception in 2008. I’ve been a hotrodder since around 1976. My opinions here are both professional and personal [and some are the same!]
Professionally:
RideTech builds suspension systems and components for street cars whose owners want to drive in an aggressive manner and feel as comfortable as if they were driving a new corvette. I consider the C5 and C6 Corvette to be a feasible benchmark to shoot for when evaluating the success of our suspension components. The OUSCI [as well as the RTT events and the Goodguys event is where we get to publicly and tangibly demonstrate our wares.
I think we’ve succeeded.
We’ve ALWAYS brought cars that were built with off the shelf parts, in a manner that MOST of our customers could subscribe to. The Warpig 66 Chevelle, The Velocity 68 Camaro, and now the 48 Hour Camaro had all run well and represented our company and our suspension systems well. I LOVE being able to directly compare our cars to the state of the art vehicles in any genre…tuner, exotic, late model, racecar or not. I can go down that list and mentally compare each car and it’s build level to our stuff and decide if we have succeeded or not. I believe that MOST customers are doing the same thing. They understand that a 67 Camaro with an OEM subframe and a 550 hp motor with an amateur driver of medium talent probably will not be able to beat a nicely prepped Z06 with a VERY talented driver on a road course. They get it. AND they respond by buying enough of our products to allow us to do this all over again next year. THAT is why RideTech continues to sponsor, promote, and participate in OUSCI, and all the rest of the dynamic driving events throughout the year.

Personally:
As a hotrodder…man I want to WIN this thing someday! I went 5 seconds faster this year than last year on the road course and dropped from 9th to 22nd! So, what am I going to do?
Build a faster car, of course!
Beyond that…re-read my professional comments above. I can’t think of a better overall event than OUSCI. The fact that there are 16 pages of commentary on this event shows that is has rung a bell with everybody regardless of position or opinion. There wasn’t one car there that I thought was out of place. I LOVE seeing how my junk stacks up against the various “exotica” and crave the opportunity to do so again next year.

Some people don’t think much of the “design” portion of the event…they think a “car show” element doesn’t belong in a “race”. Two things to remember about that: Beyond the fact that this is not a real race, If it weren’t for the design portion of the event it would have become overrun with racecars immediately. The second thing is that recalculating the scores without the design element didn’t change a whole lot. I guess my definition of “a whole lot” might be different from someone who might have moved up in the standings more than I would have, but since this is my rant I have not bothered to consider anyone else’s definition

One element I would like to add for next year: The fastest road course driver gets to take the design judge’s car around the track for 3 laps.

Here is one serious thing I would like to see for 2012: Spectators. Can you imagine playing the superbowl in an empty stadium? Spring Mountain is NOT very conducive to spectators, but there are a lot of venues that are. I’d sure like to explore that avenue. If a NASCAR race can bring in 150,000 people to Las Vegas Motor Speedway, couldn’t OUSCI bring in 10% of that?
OK...on to next year!

[Stuart Adams]

The more people watching, the more people buying parts. Makes sense to me.

[GregWeld]

:bow: :bow: :theresa: :theresa: :clap: :clap:


Great insight Bret....

I think there has been too much focus on "the winner" -- yet I think the way to look at the "event(s)" is a "winner" against "X".... Your summation was just excellent.

[Flash68]

Sure, as a driver or athlete or competitor of any event, you want more spectators, and I get that. Hell, it was a great time with the hundreds of spectators watching us all do the peanut autoX at GG Pleasanton this weekend.

But as a spectator who would at some point like to be a competitor, you start getting over a thousand spectators and at some point they don't have access to the pits, the cars, the drivers. That's a big part of what makes this an event so great from a spectator's point of view.

[bret]

Sure, as a driver or athlete or competitor of any event, you want more spectators, and I get that. Hell, it was a great time with the hundreds of spectators watching us all do the peanut autoX at GG Pleasanton this weekend.

But as a spectator who would at some point like to be a competitor, you start getting over a thousand spectators and at some point they don't have access to the pits, the cars, the drivers. That's a big part of what makes this an event so great from a spectator's point of view.

Possibly...but NHRA and other sanctioning bodies seem to [successfully?] manage spectators in the thousands...and I'm figuring it will take us a few years to get to that point.

The other point was that if this is to continue to be a TV event [and I hope it will] a crowd always makes things look more energetic. A good crowd can make even a golf game look kinda exciting. Well, ok...up to a point:)

[XcYZ]

Quoted as this is a great post, Bret.

I agree with everything you're saying here, and I definitely agree with the facility not exactly being conducive to spectators. As you noted, spectators bring a level of energy to the event, as well as create the (pre and post) buzz about the event.
:thumbsup:

Wow 16 pages on OUSCI!!
Not surprisingly, an impressive response
RideTech has been a sponsor of the OUSCI since its inception in 2008. I’ve been a hotrodder since around 1976. My opinions here are both professional and personal [and some are the same!]
Professionally:
RideTech builds suspension systems and components for street cars whose owners want to drive in an aggressive manner and feel as comfortable as if they were driving a new corvette. I consider the C5 and C6 Corvette to be a feasible benchmark to shoot for when evaluating the success of our suspension components. The OUSCI [as well as the RTT events and the Goodguys event is where we get to publicly and tangibly demonstrate our wares.
I think we’ve succeeded.
We’ve ALWAYS brought cars that were built with off the shelf parts, in a manner that MOST of our customers could subscribe to. The Warpig 66 Chevelle, The Velocity 68 Camaro, and now the 48 Hour Camaro had all run well and represented our company and our suspension systems well. I LOVE being able to directly compare our cars to the state of the art vehicles in any genre…tuner, exotic, late model, racecar or not. I can go down that list and mentally compare each car and it’s build level to our stuff and decide if we have succeeded or not. I believe that MOST customers are doing the same thing. They understand that a 67 Camaro with an OEM subframe and a 550 hp motor with an amateur driver of medium talent probably will not be able to beat a nicely prepped Z06 with a VERY talented driver on a road course. They get it. AND they respond by buying enough of our products to allow us to do this all over again next year. THAT is why RideTech continues to sponsor, promote, and participate in OUSCI, and all the rest of the dynamic driving events throughout the year.

Personally:
As a hotrodder…man I want to WIN this thing someday! I went 5 seconds faster this year than last year on the road course and dropped from 9th to 22nd! So, what am I going to do?
Build a faster car, of course!
Beyond that…re-read my professional comments above. I can’t think of a better overall event than OUSCI. The fact that there are 16 pages of commentary on this event shows that is has rung a bell with everybody regardless of position or opinion. There wasn’t one car there that I thought was out of place. I LOVE seeing how my junk stacks up against the various “exotica” and crave the opportunity to do so again next year.

Some people don’t think much of the “design” portion of the event…they think a “car show” element doesn’t belong in a “race”. Two things to remember about that: Beyond the fact that this is not a real race, If it weren’t for the design portion of the event it would have become overrun with racecars immediately. The second thing is that recalculating the scores without the design element didn’t change a whole lot. I guess my definition of “a whole lot” might be different from someone who might have moved up in the standings more than I would have, but since this is my rant I have not bothered to consider anyone else’s definition

One element I would like to add for next year: The fastest road course driver gets to take the design judge’s car around the track for 3 laps.

Here is one serious thing I would like to see for 2012: Spectators. Can you imagine playing the superbowl in an empty stadium? Spring Mountain is NOT very conducive to spectators, but there are a lot of venues that are. I’d sure like to explore that avenue. If a NASCAR race can bring in 150,000 people to Las Vegas Motor Speedway, couldn’t OUSCI bring in 10% of that?
OK...on to next year!

[GregWeld]

I hate to be "opining" here, yet again -- but I will... just this once more... :unibrow:


The track management (SMMS) gave me the "what for" about crowd management - explaining "the kill zone" etc to me. It was really helpful and once he understood that I CARED about what he was telling me -- we got on page 1 and I did my job <highly paid by the way!>.

I will say that I hardly had to do anything except to ASK the crowd to back up two or three steps -- and they IMMEDIATELY responded and did what I asked. WHAT A GREAT CROWD. Not one person mouthed off... I was polite to them - they were polite to me.

What happens - as you all know - is one person leans in for a better look or camera angle - the next person takes a step out and so on - next thing you know -- the whole line has moved. At the lunch break I added one cone in line with me and where the track manager asked me to keep them.... EVERYONE knew what that cone was for - and I didn't have to ask a single person to step back after that. WHAT A GREAT CROWD. You'd see someone step out to take a photo - you'd see them notice the cone and the line - and they made sure to step back. As long as that was happening - I let them self manage. It's busy out there - You're watching the start line - your fellow track workers - the crowd.... it could have easily gotten "out of hand" but it didn't... because that was an "experienced" crowd. They got it. They wanted to be there - and they want the event to work. It was great to see people be so "into it".

If the crowd becomes more "random" -- i.e., friends bringing friends etc and it gets to be more "non" car people.... Then I'd just ask that the corner workers or flag wavers etc have at least one extra set of eyes and ears. A couple of times I enlisted friends in the crowd to help me... but since they didn't have the official shirt on - they didn't get the same "reaction" that I got (maybe it's my booming voice? LOL).

My point is - everyone out there was on their most spectacular behavior! Double that size -- we'd just need some "crime scene tape" or something in order to cordon areas off - or to create a "keep clear" area back from the track.

[coolwelder62]

Well,I will say this.Seeing MR.Weld w/his Yellow shirt on, had me always on my best behavior.Mr.Weld as did all of the other event Staff did an awesome job.They kept the autograph seeker's at bay,pretty much.And Kevin was able to get some qualtiy time w/ AJ.:lol: :lol:

[GregWeld]

Well,I will say this.Seeing MR.Weld w/his Yellow shirt on, had me always on my best behavior.Mr.Weld as did all of the other event Staff did an awesome job.They kept the autograph seeker's at bay,pretty much.And Kevin was able to get some qualtiy time w/ AJ.:lol: :lol:

Ya know - I did playground duty 3 days a week at the CatLick School the kids went to.... There were always boys that you KNEW were going to be pushing the boundaries...

The minute I saw you - I knew you were one of "those kids"..... :rofl: :woot:

[coolwelder62]

Ya know - I did playground duty 3 days a week at the CatLick School the kids went to.... There were always boys that you KNEW were going to be pushing the boundaries...

The minute I saw you - I knew you were one of "those kids"..... :rofl: :woot:Greg,You must have got the low down on me from Gordon Mcgillton or Rodger Lee, ahead of time.:lol:

[Jimi-FM3]

Rest assured that we are continuing to monitor this discussion and a couple of others with regards to the OUSCI and other street car events throughout the country. There are a lot very well thought out observations, suggestions and feedback. For sure, this event has evolved and grown, and while most of it has been planned, there's been some great organic growth as well.

We continue to see more and more interest in the event from participants, spectators, sponsors, manufacturers etc. We will listen to all the feedback and please understand, try everything in our power to make this a safe, fun and relevant event for the industry and hobby.

[mfain]

I was out at Spring Mountain today, and in an informal conversation with one of their senior officers, he was very complimentary regarding the professionalism and conduct of both the participants and spectators during this year's event -- self policing -- a nice job by all! Like most car guys, I go to events like this to look under the well-prepared cars, talk to their builders, and then watch them close-up to see how their mods perform. You could pack more spectators into an arena like Las Vegas Motor Speedway with big grandstands, but you would lose that close contact with the vehicles and the participants, and even with the sponsor's and part's suppliers (except for big decals on the fenders that you might see from the stands). My $.02 worth...

Pappy

[CarlC]

I hear you about the crowd Greg. There were several times in the pits that I played safety Nazi, and each time the people were totally cool about it. Usually they were having so much fun that they did not see what was happening around them.

Jimi, thanks for for the feedback. I do believe that the event should favor the street category. Street tires, street gas (no race gas), and if you really want to be picky, late model emissions legality. All three are required for a late model car to be legally licensed. Policing all of that would be a bear.

[CompInnovations]

Reading through this thread, especially the parts about old vs. new, street car vs. race car I thought I would speak more from the purist side of things. I realize I will catch some s*** for this so fire away!

1. If you want a car to go fast around the track and cruise in comfort get a 911 or a Corvette, can't go wrong and they will most likely beat all comers at alot of AutoX, HPDE, Open Track type events with a good tire and minimal modification. You'll probably save alot of time and money vs. building a car also.

2. I would say that I am on the ultra-conservative side of things when it comes to street car vs. race car. Here is what constitutes a street car for me:

4 point roll bar maximum for hardtops GT-350 style or a head hoop on a space frame roadster or Cobra style car. Cars equipped in this manner won LeMans overall and class championships in the decade or decade preceding the era most of our cars were manufactured in, I think that spirit is important.

Front and rear windshields made from glass not lexan

Suspension bushings not rod ends

6 stage dry sump oiling shouldn't be necessary for a street car engine

A street car shouldn't need the same amount of braided line necessary to plumb a space shuttle

No "Jerico" style trans

I will be the first to admit that my interest in pro-touring is more the quality of the high end builds than the styling, I am more of a purist I enjoy the look and feel of a period correct car for what it is. If anything older cars have a big advantage over newer cars, simplicity, that I have yet to see really be exploited by alot of the 'ultimate' builds. Bottom line, a well prepped near stock Vette or 911 will smoke anything short of a 1969 McLaren M6GT in a new vs. old street challenge.

Safety: If you have a good seat, a 5 point harness and a 4 point bar on a road course, you'll be fine and probably the only thing to get hurt will be your pride and maybe checkbook from the car and Armco repairs. Safety shouldn't be taken for granted, but at this level you'll be okay in a well prepared car. Most tracks now also have so much runoff built in or retrofitted 'the wall' is becoming less of a concern at some places.

Also, sponsorship and product placement may have it's place but with some cars it's getting rediculous. Nothing worse than peeking under the hood and thinking that you're reading down the vendor line of the summit catalog from all the logo's, maybe be a little subtle.

[sik68]

Hey guys, here's another OUSCI vid. It's the Lingenfelter L/28 Camaro driven by "GM engineer/Pratt Miller David Mikels"

Looks like he wrung it out the best he could, and they said there is much room for improvement with more seat time and car setup.


Thread on the L/28 (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177217)

PXlxZj2Jbzs

[Ron in SoCal]

^ as good as that motor sounded in the vid, it was even better in person. One of my favorite at Optima...:thumbsup:

[coolwelder62]

I like building car's.I would rather build a car for Optima than buy one.I think what make's Optima so great is all the differant type's of car's.Stock/OEM,Race Car'sd,SMOY qualtiy P-T car's,Very Nice P-T car's,What ever The Race Director(Jimi Day) think's would make for a good show.I embrace the chance to run aginst the Likes of (Danny Pop,Mark Stielow,Kyle Tucker,Brian Finch,Brian Hobaugh.)This only make us better.I also belive if someone were to run off the track a 140mph they would be in deep **** having only a 4 point roll cage or single shelby style bar.I been told the Ferrari,911,BMW,guy's really don't want to come out and beat on their car's. If you Show up w/a bone stock camaro you will most likely finish dead last.Then decal's are on the car's so the sponsor's that fork out all that dough great a little some ting back.W/O the sponsors,these event could not be run,unless the eventree's fees being big buck's.I have been to 2 of the 4 events and they just keep getting better.

[73CPCAMARO]

Safetey is a huge concern for me on a road course. That is why I put a cage in my car.

From the quote above

I would say that I am on the ultra-conservative side of things when it comes to street car vs. race car. Here is what constitutes a street car for me:

4 point roll bar maximum for hardtops GT-350 style or a head hoop on a space frame roadster or Cobra style car. Cars equipped in this manner won LeMans overall and class championships in the decade or decade preceding the era most of our cars were manufactured in, I think that spirit is important.

Safety: If you have a good seat, a 5 point harness and a 4 point bar on a road course, you'll be fine and probably the only thing to get hurt will be your pride and maybe checkbook from the car and Armco repairs. Safety shouldn't be taken for granted, but at this level you'll be okay in a well prepared car. Most tracks now also have so much runoff built in or retrofitted 'the wall' is becoming less of a concern at some places. .


I am a bit puzzled with this. Advancement in safety is always improving and why would we want to use 40+ year old technology and logic? Let's go back even further when they used a leather helmet. :willy:
Thunderhill in Nor Cal. is known for being a very safe track. But, it is about impossible to be 100% safe. Check out the video below. Yes, this was during a race, but this could have just as easily happened on a solo run like at so many of the Pro-Touring events we run. I don't know about you, but if this was me, I would be glad I have more than a 4 point cage. He just lost his brakes and you will see what happens.

eu0Wt98TT6c

[GregWeld]

Good post Brian....

Ya never know when the brakes are going to fail - or the guy just ahead of you dumps his crankcase all over the track... or a tire blows...

I've got video of a guy that passes me and then starts spraying coolant or oil all over the place... I backed off and let him go and slowed a bit to see what was going to happen - but I was lucky that I saw it first and he didn't just do a big dump on the track right in front of me.

Several of us (on Lat G) have been down that straight and know you're hauling some serious butt down there - then it's downshift and HARD on the brakes to make the 90* !

That driver did a good job not wrecking the other guys car... so kudos to him huh?

[Track Junky]

I know what your trying to say and safety should be number one period but that was just straight up a dumb move and driver error.

I know that turn well and he could have waited till the end of 14 and on to the straight to make the pass.

[GregWeld]

I know what your trying to say and safety should be number one period but that was just straight up a dumb move and driver error.

I know that turn well and he could have waited till the end of 14 and on to the straight to make the pass.

Didn't look to me like he intended to pass -- looks to me like he just did a good job when he went for the brakes and they weren't there.... he blew by the guy because the other driver was on his brakes. You know how much you need to scrub off down there... and if you didn't have any brakes -- you're going to blow off there just like this guy did.

[73CPCAMARO]

I know what your trying to say and safety should be number one period but that was just straight up a dumb move and driver error.

I know that turn well and he could have waited till the end of 14 and on to the straight to make the pass.

The driver stated the brakes failed, not a dumb pass move. Either way, I think my point is valid.

[Blake Foster]

Yep been arround that track in the Nova and you are probably going over 100mph when you go under the bridge. and after comming down the hill and through the previous 2 corners the brakes have alot of heat in them, the Nova has proplus 14" with race pads and proper cooling ducts, and the brakes are not at 100% when you get to that spot on the track.
don't know i woudl want to hit that wall in the Nova. even tho it has a full cage (no door bars due to street use) OMP racing seats, 5 point harnesses.
NOT MY IDEA OF FUN!!

[Track Junky]

Didn't look to me like he intended to pass -- looks to me like he just did a good job when he went for the brakes and they weren't there.... he blew by the guy because the other driver was on his brakes. You know how much you need to scrub off down there... and if you didn't have any brakes -- you're going to blow off there just like this guy did.

Thanks for correcting me Greg, watched the whole vid this time and it sounds like he did lose his brakes.

I hate watching these vids because its always a possibility for this to happen to anyone.

[GregWeld]

Yep been arround that track in the Nova and you are probably going over 100mph when you go under the bridge. and after comming down the hill and through the previous 2 corners the brakes have alot of heat in them, the Nova has proplus 14" with race pads and proper cooling ducts, and the brakes are not at 100% when you get to that spot on the track.
don't know i woudl want to hit that wall in the Nova. even tho it has a full cage (no door bars due to street use) OMP racing seats, 5 point harnesses.
NOT MY IDEA OF FUN!!


Blake -- Just ask Charley about my driving "style" -- I just don't use the dang things (brakes) -- they just slow you down too much!


:lol:

[GregWeld]

Thanks for correcting me Greg, watched the whole vid this time and it sounds like he did lose his brakes.

I hate watching these vids because its always a possibility for this to happen to anyone.

It was easy to miss the conversation... and whether he did or not is only his story... but sure looked that way to me. What I really loved was the course worker telling the driver "THAT WAS SPECTACULAR"...... I mean really? Is that really what the guy wanted to hear after that.... OMG... Yeah dude! You crashed and burned but it was really spectacular. Sounds like something TODD would say! :lol:

BRIAN -- I've seen how well your car is built.... You'd have just blasted that wall and kept on going - picked up the track on the other side -- straightened her out and then lapped somebody! :rofl:

[Flash68]

What I really loved was the course worker telling the driver "THAT WAS SPECTACULAR"...... I mean really? Is that really what the guy wanted to hear after that.... OMG... Yeah dude! You crashed and burned but it was really spectacular.

Yeah no kidding... that dude sounded like your boy Spicoli, Greg.

[Track Junky]

What I really loved was the course worker telling the driver "THAT WAS SPECTACULAR"...... I mean really? Is that really what the guy wanted to hear after that.... OMG... Yeah dude! You crashed and burned but it was really spectacular. Sounds like something TODD would say! :lol:

I know, right? Spectacular? What the hell was he thinking!!

Probably one of those guys that watches NASCAR just for the crashes.

[MaxHarvard]

4 point roll bar maximum for hardtops GT-350 style or a head hoop on a space frame roadster or Cobra style car. Cars equipped in this manner won LeMans overall and class championships in the decade or decade preceding the era most of our cars were manufactured in, I think that spirit is important.

Front and rear windshields made from glass not lexan

Suspension bushings not rod ends

A street car shouldn't need the same amount of braided line necessary to plumb a space shuttle





I was understanding of your point up until I read these lines.

To me, this is safety. To me, braided line is a safety feature. Running FI with non-braided line just seems a bit underwhelming in my opinion.

Safety is priority #1 and these items to mentioned are all safety related. If someone wants to use rod ends because they are stronger, ergo; more safe. Then by all means, go for it.

A 4 pt cage might be "enough", but if a guy wants to be more safe, who am I to tell them differently? Safety is not an item I think you can casually mandate at a bare minimum level.

$.02 given.

~Eric

[jvtex]

I think this whole event is great. Every part about it wants me to spend money on my old mustang and compete. Which is the point right? I have a great street car that works and i can take it to the auto-x and be somewhat competitive. It has a very tired 302ci motor that might put out 210 HP with a T-5 transmission. It's a fun car, my wife can hop in it and drive it as well. However, the road race aspect of this event separates the group.

If running on any road course, I certainly want the most safety available in my car. My father was a road racer when i was a small child. He took his SCCA GT-1 Corvette out to Laguna Seca, Crashed it and rung his head on the roll cage. Put him in the hospital for a day or two and had a hard time remembering that he had a wife and two kids. Point being, that was a racecar with all the safety requirements and he still got hurt. So taking a "Street Car", which only has a upgraded seats, CROW lap belt, no Cage -- add no roof to this argument -- and safety items, to a track seems a bit out of my league right now.

Once OUSCI added the road course to the event, a EXTREMELY high level of safety must be at the top of everyone list. Yeah, sure you can take any car you want to an "open track" (insert Organization Name here) but with OUSCI, you're competing with a clock/timer against other drivers. To me, that sounds like qualifying for a RACE in a RACE CAR. Not Street Car Stuff? This is just how I see it.

If I'm ever lucky enough to compete in any of these events, I'll bring all the safety items available to the road course, including a full roll cage. And at that point I'll probably have a High HP motor, with a Straight Cut Gear Transmission box and all the bad ass Suspension possible. After all I love the competition and I know what it's going to take to win.

- joel

[CompInnovations]

I was understanding of your point up until I read these lines.

To me, this is safety. To me, braided line is a safety feature. Running FI with non-braided line just seems a bit underwhelming in my opinion.

Safety is priority #1 and these items to mentioned are all safety related. If someone wants to use rod ends because they are stronger, ergo; more safe. Then by all means, go for it.

A 4 pt cage might be "enough", but if a guy wants to be more safe, who am I to tell them differently? Safety is not an item I think you can casually mandate at a bare minimum level.

$.02 given.

~Eric

I agree that all of these features add safety to a car. What I debate is the that while braided line is necessary for some, systems if you need 20+ feet of -12 to plumb an engine it's probably not a very streetable combo. Lexan, I don't know of any factory cars coming with lexan, well the govt. makes sure of that. Rod ends willl be stronger but imo much more harsh, need constant maintenance and a properly designed suspension with bushings will be much more street friendly for your and your passengers butts.

As for a cage, plenty of production cars open track at much faster times than some guys running 10 point cages. At the end of the day even in a purpose built racing car I am much more concerned about how good my seat is, my harness, my suit, my HANS, my helmet and the competency of those around me.

My main point of contention is that even a sprint car, modified or formula car can be street driven with lights, brake lights, gps speedo, dot tires and a license plate. Just because something can be driven on the street doesn't mean it isn't a race car. When someone builds a car out of a vintage car that doesn't need lexan, a cage, 380mm brakes, and 800+ hp, pushrod suspension that can beat a near stock Z06, or a 458 in a track event then the ultimate street car won't be a near stock OEM car.

[Vegas69]

Every man is capable of controlling his own destiny to some extent. This is a very fragile line to walk. Is it safe to road race a 631 hp ZR1 corvette? I'd have to say NO. Is it safe to drink a 6 pack every Friday night? Is it safe to screw hot chicks without a rubber? We all feast on danger to some extent. This is a street car event. Your local DMV is willing to pass you and issue you a set of plates. It's a street car. Your chances of killing yourself on the open road are as great or greater than on the race track.(At least in a muscle car) I don't think safety should be shun on at all. I'm all for it. My point, let a man make his own decisions. As long as the insurance policy will pay out and protect WHEN somebody gets hurt, so be it.

But it's the goverments job, my job, your job to protect Joe from killing himself. Bull Puckey He's a man, he can make his own damn decisions.

[Jtomas801]

Safetey is a huge concern for me on a road course. That is why I put a cage in my car.

From the quote above

I would say that I am on the ultra-conservative side of things when it comes to street car vs. race car. Here is what constitutes a street car for me:

4 point roll bar maximum for hardtops GT-350 style or a head hoop on a space frame roadster or Cobra style car. Cars equipped in this manner won LeMans overall and class championships in the decade or decade preceding the era most of our cars were manufactured in, I think that spirit is important.

Safety: If you have a good seat, a 5 point harness and a 4 point bar on a road course, you'll be fine and probably the only thing to get hurt will be your pride and maybe checkbook from the car and Armco repairs. Safety shouldn't be taken for granted, but at this level you'll be okay in a well prepared car. Most tracks now also have so much runoff built in or retrofitted 'the wall' is becoming less of a concern at some places. .


I am a bit puzzled with this. Advancement in safety is always improving and why would we want to use 40+ year old technology and logic? Let's go back even further when they used a leather helmet. :willy:
Thunderhill in Nor Cal. is known for being a very safe track. But, it is about impossible to be 100% safe. Check out the video below. Yes, this was during a race, but this could have just as easily happened on a solo run like at so many of the Pro-Touring events we run. I don't know about you, but if this was me, I would be glad I have more than a 4 point cage. He just lost his brakes and you will see what happens.

eu0Wt98TT6c


Here is a link to more information about the car that crashed, failed dot spec flex line, plus photos of the damage in post #906.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27556&highlight=broken+brake+line&page=23

I'm sure he would have had some serious damage to his feet/legs if it wasn't for all the foot box protection.


Jon

[drd9838]

It would seem Mary Macaroni (Pozzi) had a valid point about the difference between a street car that can run on the track safely and a track car that can run on the street. Everyone will have a different opinion and I believe it is wise to have a open discussion about street car versus track car.

It is the nature of a racer to push the limits not only in driving but in preparation of the car.

Are these items considered to be be "street" items:
( I understand everyone would draw the line in a different place.

Locker Rear End I say only on a jeep front axle where it can be disengaged.

Jerico Racing Transmission The name says it all.

Solid Hub clutch discs (No damper springs) Not intended for street use

Lexan Windows only if this was an option on the car to begin with.

Fiberglass Bumpers Not on a street car.

Fuel Cell open trunk to fill it. I do not think this is a good street car build.

RACE GAS, I would say No must be 100% pump gas. NOT a special unleaded race gas, not even a mix.

No vin number No race, (yes their was one)

No Side windows, if the car came that way. Otherwise must go up and down.

Wings, not a good idea on the street.

Oil Preheating to start race engine (1/2 hour) Only if it is 20 below zero.

Back seat removed and exhaust, muffler and battery back there. Not a good idea for a street car.

It is my belief that if we do not put down some common sense street car/ show car guidelines to avoid the influx of track car's made to look like a street car. It has nothing to do with the caliber of the driver is has everything to do with being realistic as to street car guidelines. Otherwise rename this to the ultimate track car that can be driven on the street!

[Track Junky]

My $.02

I had my car for 5 years before I transformed it into a dedicated track car. Can I still drive it on the street? Yup!! Registered and insured. Do I care to drive it on the street. Hell No!!

The track is the funnest place to drive my car and I dont like screwing around on the street because its not safe and disrespectfull to the public around you.

Some people here need to wake up and smell the coffee. Most all the builds you see on this site today are track/autocross motivated. There is a trend and we have shifted gears. We are now at a point where we are building race cars, running them, and loving it!!

Rename the event? Thats their call and I could care less. But the reality is that we have some talented builders and drivers on this site and have turned this hobby into a sport. I believe it's called evolution and it wont stop.

There will be a day when we have set safety requirements and more stringent rules due to safety and the race cars will continue to be built and the fan base will continue to grow larger.

[GregWeld]

See, IMHO people are missing something here and all of that above "race car/street car" stuff is all a good discussion and everyone has an opinion....IF it was open to anyone that wants to run. BUT IT'S NOT.

What people are forgetting is that the cars in this event are INVITED.... by the good folks that put it on.

We're having a discussion here that IMPLIES that anyone that wants to build something can come and play and run. THAT IS JUST NOT SO.... it's a "golden ticket" car - or an INVITEE. So the whole notion of "it's going to turn into such and such and event" is moot. It WILL turn into whatever the good folks that put it on want it to be.

[Track Junky]

What people are forgetting is that the cars in this event are INVITED.... by the good folks that put it on.

We're having a discussion here that IMPLIES that anyone that wants to build something can come and play and run. THAT IS JUST NOT SO.... it's a "golden ticket" car - or an INVITEE. So the whole notion of "it's going to turn into such and such and event" is mute. It WILL turn into whatever the good folks that put it on want it to be.

Not sure who implied it wasn't invitation........ and the good folks that are sending these invites are inviting race cars. Wether they decide to acknowledge this or not is up to them and I could care less either way.

My point here is that we are evolving from PT'ing to racing. Why? Because its way more fun!!

[GregWeld]

Not sure who implied it wasn't invitation........ and the good folks that are sending these invites are inviting race cars. Wether they decide to acknowledge this or not is up to them and I could care less either way.

My point here is that we are evolving from PT'ing to racing. Why? Because its way more fun!!


The thread turned from a discussion about the event into a discourse about what peoples opinions are of what constitutes a race car vs a street car.

My point was/is that none of that really matters for the purposes of an all invite only event.

[Track Junky]

The thread turned from a discussion about the event into a discourse about what peoples opinions are of what constitutes a race car vs a street car.

My point was/is that none of that really matters for the purposes of an all invite only event.

Point taken...

[GregWeld]

Just so you know Gae -- I agree with your description of the direction PT has taken and the very good reason you proffered. It's fun.

[Track Junky]

Just so you know Gae -- I agree with your description of the direction PT has taken and the very good reason you proffered. It's fun.

Thanks Greg, I appreciate the acknowledgement.......and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about........why else would you buy a certain little race pony
:thumbsup:

[MaxHarvard]

We're having a discussion here that IMPLIES that anyone that wants to build something can come and play and run. THAT IS JUST NOT SO.... it's a "golden ticket" car - or an INVITEE. So the whole notion of "it's going to turn into such and such and event" is mute. It WILL turn into whatever the good folks that put it on want it to be.

Sorry, this is really bugging me because I'm OCD and pedantic...

it's moot :D

[GregWeld]

Oh yeah --- I totally get it.

I don't think my car belongs in the event.... For all the reasons mentioned above - cage - jerico - locker - no windows - lexan - no anything... it's a race car.

I did like the EVENT because it was really really interesting to see how well all the different "VERSIONS" ran. How they sounded. How much body roll they had. The imports vs the big inch motors etc. To me - the VARIETY is what made it so much fun this year. Every car out there was really unique and it was just great watching them all. Frankly I was more impressed with the cars that had all the shizzel and paint -- run their little asses off against the cars that were obviously purpose built. The show cars turned in a very impressive effort! And I don't know anyone that wouldn't LOVE to own a 800 hp (or whatever - I'm just tossing a number here) brand new CTS V or Camaro and be able to drive it to LA from Vegas and back....

[GregWeld]

Sorry, this is really bugging me because I'm OCD and pedantic...

it's moot :D


FIXEDEDEDED it!

[MaxHarvard]

FIXEDEDEDED it!

CANNOT COMPUTE HORRIBLE GRAMMAR!!!


http://gifs.gifbin.com/1238157980_scanners_-_head_explosion.gif



:lol: :lol:

[Blake Foster]

I said 3 years ago, just watch this whole ProTouring thing is going the evolve the same way Prostreet did, into the PCSA fast street car class etc.
it just seems to be natural progress. Can't stop it, if you look back at the PT cars at Sema 5 years ago, I will use the Black /Orange stripe 69 camaro we built as an example compared to what is being built now, I will use the Orange and Black 70 camaro of Brians, (great car by the way)or even Mary's Car there is a HUGE differance

I think you will see more and more race cars at Optima in the future. or the same red camaro will win every year.
Remember when Bad penny won the first year, and this year if it was there would have finshed somewhere arround 15-20th, NO Disrespect to Steve or BP. I am sure the Speedtech Nova would not have finished 5th this year, competition is getting stronger and it's run what ya brung and hope you brung enough!! only way to do that is to build a race car.
Just sayin.

[camcojb]

The thread turned from a discussion about the event into a discourse about what peoples opinions are of what constitutes a race car vs a street car.

My point was/is that none of that really matters for the purposes of an all invite only event.

Is it all invite? I'm asking, but I thought if you won one of the qualifier events at Goodguys throughout the year, you automatically got an invite. Is that true, or do you have to win, and also have them invite you?

Like I said, I don't know.

[Track Junky]

I said 3 years ago, just watch this whole ProTouring thing is going the evolve the same way Prostreet did, into the PCSA fast street car class etc.
it just seems to be natural progress. Can't stop it, if you look back at the PT cars at Sema 5 years ago, I will use the Black /Orange stripe 69 camaro we built as an example compared to what is being built now, I will use the Orange and Black 70 camaro of Brians, (great car by the way)or even Mary's Car there is a HUGE differance

I think you will see more and more race cars at Optima in the future. or the same red camaro will win every year.
Remember when Bad penny won the first year, and this year if it was there would have finshed somewhere arround 15-20th, NO Disrespect to Steve or BP. I am sure the Speedtech Nova would not have finished 5th this year, competition is getting stronger and it's run what ya brung and hope you brung enough!! only way to do that is to build a race car.
Just sayin.

Exactly!! Only race cars with lights, blinkers, current registration, and 200 tw tires.

[Vegas69]

If you win select events throughout the year, you get an "Invite" automatically for racing your way into the event.

In my case and many, you get personally invited to be a part of the event.

[Ron in SoCal]

My $.02

I had my car for 5 years before I transformed it into a dedicated track car. Can I still drive it on the street? Yup!! Registered and insured. Do I care to drive it on the street. Hell No!!

The track is the funnest place to drive my car and I dont like screwing around on the street because its not safe and disrespectfull to the public around you.

Some people here need to wake up and smell the coffee. Most all the builds you see on this site today are track/autocross motivated. There is a trend and we have shifted gears. We are now at a point where we are building race cars, running them, and loving it!!

Rename the event? Thats their call and I could care less. But the reality is that we have some talented builders and drivers on this site and have turned this hobby into a sport. I belive it's called evolution and it wont stop.

There will be a day when we have set safety requirements and more stringent rules due to safety and the race cars will continue to be built and the fan base will continue to grow larger.

I said 3 years ago, just watch this whole ProTouring thing is going the evolve the same way Prostreet did, into the PCSA fast street car class etc.
it just seems to be natural progress. Can't stop it, if you look back at the PT cars at Sema 5 years ago, I will use the Black /Orange stripe 69 camaro we built as an example compared to what is being built now, I will use the Orange and Black 70 camaro of Brians, (great car by the way)or even Mary's Car there is a HUGE differance

I think you will see more and more race cars at Optima in the future. or the same red camaro will win every year.
Remember when Bad penny won the first year, and this year if it was there would have finshed somewhere arround 15-20th, NO Disrespect to Steve or BP. I am sure the Speedtech Nova would not have finished 5th this year, competition is getting stronger and it's run what ya brung and hope you brung enough!! only way to do that is to build a race car.
Just sayin.

Two great quotes and I agree with you guys whole heartedly (spelled ok Max? :D ). As Blake said, it happened in other race series and is the evolution of our hobby/sport right now and people are bringing it. Optima will decide what the invite/qualification criteria will be and we will compete accordingly. At some point, just like the low 8 second World's Fastest Street Car, it'll be for the really big boys only (I'm not in that club, BTW). Watching this year, I think it already is.

Oh, and I'm fine with that. :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

I'm not sure I agree with the hobby is going to "Race Car". The event winners are certainly headed that way. Go to RTTC and tell me it's dominated by race cars. It's dominated by a agreat bunch of guys with slow pro touring cars. I still see alot of builds catered towards weekend warriors with families and cruising in mind. As usual, the big egos and wallets are wanting to one up the last guy. :unibrow: The vendors have all been sucked into this mindset as well. How many out there are claiming there stuff rides the best, has the longest longevity? We're not reinventing the wheel here. How long have guys been road racing and autocrossing muscle cars? The difference is guys are trying to build cars capable of doing two things well. Cruising and racing. Delicate line to walk.

I'm with Gaetano, I've damn near quit driving my car on the street. I just enjoy the events and racing. I'd rather have a race car to be perfectly honest at this point.

[96z28ss]

I thought if you win at one of the qualifing events, you get your ticket to the event. Then there is a few more that get added as invites. then at SEMA they pick a few more.

[mpozziCPL]

In addition to winning your way in or being invited during the year, there's another way to get your OUSCI ticket punched ... be a sponsor's entry.

Mary Pozzi

[GregWeld]

I should have modified my ALL invite statement -- because we all know that you can win a golden ticket (which I mentioned).... and of course the sponsor cars (used to be called exhibition)... Last year we had the killer drift car... and the SEMA picks (which are also invite cars)... So what's the breakdown?

20 Invites?
10 Golden tickets?
1 prior winner?
10+ Sponsor cars?

Somehow it got to 53?

What I was really saying is that this is not an event you can just sign up for and run what ya brung..... but I get the hair splitting. LOL

[mpozziCPL]

My clarification wasn't directed at you, Greg, but meant for others that may not know the different ways a car/driver can get into the show.

Mary

[Flash68]

Is it all invite? I'm asking, but I thought if you won one of the qualifier events at Goodguys throughout the year, you automatically got an invite. Is that true, or do you have to win, and also have them invite you?

Like I said, I don't know.

Not Goodguys events, but these event wins got you in:

Run to the Coast: February 26-27, 2011
Run to the Shore: April 1-3, 2011
Run to Music City: May 28-29, 2011
Motor State Challenge: June 17-19, 2011
Heidts Performance Car Challenge – Midwest: July 15-17, 2011
Holley LSFest II: September 9-11, 2011
Run Through the Hills: September 23-25, 2011





In my case and many, you get personally invited to be a part of the event.

I was hoping the Lat G and PT forums were each going to get 1 pick again this year.


I'm with Gaetano, I've damn near quit driving my car on the street. I just enjoy the events and racing. I'd rather have a race car to be perfectly honest at this point.

That club sure is growing...

[Track Junky]

Got this from the PT forum for anybody thats interested:


2012 Schedule of Run To Series Events In an effort to cut down on PMs about upcoming events, I want to post this now. It, as you will see isn't a complete list of our planned events for 2012 but we have nailed down 5 of our 7 or 8 planned stops.


The schedule as of now is:

Run to the Alamo, San Marquis, Tx. Febuary 17-19

Run to the Coast, Irvine Ca. March 9-11

Run to the Shore, Millville, N.J. April 6-8

Run to the Ole South, Kershaw, S.C. May 11-13

Run to the Hills, Pigeon Forge, Tn. Sept. 28-30

We are working hard to secure a date and location for RTMC. The Nashville Speedway is reportedly closing and locking the gates at the end of the year. We may be forced, if this is indeed what happens, to move it, but we do have a back up plan if the track does close.

We will also be running the annual Midwest Muslecar Challenge with Mark Bowler at Putnam Park, right now we are working out that day with the track.

We also are on the verge of announcing one more event, later in the year, at Thunderhill raceway in northern California. More on that event later.

We are very proud of the two new events, Run to the Alamo and Run to the Ole South and hope this creates a new opportunity for some that have not been able to attend our events in the past.


One other event that, while is isn't officially part of the Run to Series, it is certainly one that we all try to make every year has also moved for 2012. Scott at Motorstate told me at SEMA that the official dates for their event are July 13-15.


Please make a note of these dates guys and we will let you know as soon as registration is open for all of them.


We look forward to seeing you at an event near you in 2012.

[Blake Foster]

I'm not sure I agree with the hobby is going to "Race Car". The event winners are certainly headed that way. Go to RTTC and tell me it's dominated by race cars. It's dominated by a agreat bunch of guys with slow pro touring cars. I still see alot of builds catered towards weekend warriors with families and cruising in mind. As usual, the big egos and wallets are wanting to one up the last guy. :unibrow: The vendors have all been sucked into this mindset as well. How many out there are claiming there stuff rides the best, has the longest longevity? We're not reinventing the wheel here. How long have guys been road racing and autocrossing muscle cars? The difference is guys are trying to build cars capable of doing two things well. Cruising and racing. Delicate line to walk.

I'm with Gaetano, I've damn near quit driving my car on the street. I just enjoy the events and racing. I'd rather have a race car to be perfectly honest at this point.

OH don't get me wrong. i am simply observing, and "OUR stuff Rides the BEST"
:_paranoid there someone said it lol

[GregWeld]

My clarification wasn't directed at you, Greg, but meant for others that may not know the different ways a car/driver can get into the show.

Mary

I knew you weren't Mary -- but I also try to write - as many do - so that anyone that reads a post can understand. So when I went back to read my post I could see where it wasn't correctly stated.


I will add.... ya know... because I never have an opinion.... that regardless of what the CAR is... I still saw how the DRIVER did. To me - that's the real separation of where a particular car placed in the standings. And if someone wanted to move up the leader board.... A trip to Bondurant or SMMS or some other driver school would probably do more for them than a lexan window. :cheers: :D

[camcojb]

I knew you weren't Mary -- but I also try to write - as many do - so that anyone that reads a post can understand. So when I went back to read my post I could see where it wasn't correctly stated.


I will add.... ya know... because I never have an opinion.... that regardless of what the CAR is... I still saw how the DRIVER did. To me - that's the real separation of where a particular car placed in the standings. And if someone wanted to move up the leader board.... A trip to Bondurant or SMMS or some other driver school would probably do more for them than a lexan window. :cheers: :D

yep, you could put some of these guys in a rental car and they'd be competitive......................:lol:

[GregWeld]

yep, you could put some of these guys in a rental car and they'd be competitive......................:lol:


Well..... that might be a great way to declare the winner in a tie!! Wouldn't that be a hoot to watch! :unibrow:


Watch a video of Mark Stigelow (LOL).... and watch how quiet his hands are... how relaxed his driving is. Compare that video to Mike Maiers video on the road course - it's posted up around here somewhere - and watch how busy he is.... and remember a driving rule.... "every time you turn the wheel you're going slower".....


That statement is in no way meant to say Mike needs driving instructions!! :faint: Please don't read that into this comparison.... I'm using it because there are good videos of both guys around here that can be easily viewed. I use this because viewing the two - you'd SWEAR that Mikes car is probably way faster... it LOOKS fast. And it's great driving - or as I'd call it as a skier a fine bunch of linked recoveries!

While we know about car set up etc - and we could argue these points all day -- I'll repeat -- I'm only using this as an EXAMPLE for comparison sake... not a statement of who's better or the cars are this or that....

[96z28ss]

yeah in the event of a tie they should get into 2 rentals like in the movie "Days of Thunder" just let them duke it out till the finish line.

[camcojb]

Well..... that might be a great way to declare the winner in a tie!! Wouldn't that be a hoot to watch! :unibrow:


Watch a video of Mark Stigelow (LOL).... and watch how quiet his hands are... how relaxed his driving is. Compare that video to Mike Maiers video on the road course - it's posted up around here somewhere - and watch how busy he is.... and remember a driving rule.... "every time you turn the wheel you're going slower".....


That statement is in no way meant to say Mike needs driving instructions!! :faint: Please don't read that into this comparison.... I'm using it because there are good videos of both guys around here that can be easily viewed. I use this because viewing the two - you'd SWEAR that Mikes car is probably way faster... it LOOKS fast. And it's great driving - or as I'd call it as a skier a fine bunch of linked recoveries!

While we know about car set up etc - and we could argue these points all day -- I'll repeat -- I'm only using this as an EXAMPLE for comparison sake... not a statement of who's better or the cars are this or that....

yeah in the event of a tie they should get into 2 rentals like in the movie "Days of Thunder" just let them duke it out till the finish line.
I really like this idea. Takes the individual cars out of the equation and puts it on the drivers. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

The one great thing that I really like about the Optima challenge is that it is connected to SEMA and that they do call it a "street car invitational".

This element keeps our builders creative juices flowing and the only boundary is that it has to be a street car. I think this way we will continue to see some really creative interiors being built along with some really cool looking race inspired cars.

Todd mentioned that he would rather have a race car but I disagree with his statement only because I have seen his car and his lap times. His car is one of the prime examples tailored to these events.

Brian's car is another good example. Creative and race inspired. He knows the rules of the event and I can gaurantee we will see working windows in that car just because he has that competitive edge to him and enjoys these events.

I dont want anybody to take what I said in the wrong context. Yes, we are building race cars, but street legal ones with style.

[70rs]

Does any of this really matter? The bottom line is it's a great event that allows many of the top builders and drivers hang it all out. FOR FUN.

Add too many rules and the FUN goes out the lexan window.

I hope I get to go WATCH one day. I know me or my car will never be in it.

If you want to watch a ” too many rules” race, flip on the speed channel.
If you want to watch a wide variety of performance built cars get beat on and have FUN go to Optima.

Just my .02.

[ivmotor]

Well..... that might be a great way to declare the winner in a tie!! Wouldn't that be a hoot to watch! :unibrow:


Watch a video of Mark Stigelow (LOL).... and watch how quiet his hands are... how relaxed his driving is. Compare that video to Mike Maiers video on the road course - it's posted up around here somewhere - and watch how busy he is.... and remember a driving rule.... "every time you turn the wheel you're going slower".....


That statement is in no way meant to say Mike needs driving instructions!! :faint: Please don't read that into this comparison.... I'm using it because there are good videos of both guys around here that can be easily viewed. I use this because viewing the two - you'd SWEAR that Mikes car is probably way faster... it LOOKS fast. And it's great driving - or as I'd call it as a skier a fine bunch of linked recoveries!

While we know about car set up etc - and we could argue these points all day -- I'll repeat -- I'm only using this as an EXAMPLE for comparison sake... not a statement of who's better or the cars are this or that....

Then I should have won the whole thing...my hands fell asleep several times.:D

[GregWeld]

Then I should have won the whole thing...my hands fell asleep several times.:D



Yeah.... that will happen to ya when you're driving white knuckled! :rofl:


Kidding of course -- your Volvo is so kool!

[Vegas69]

Todd mentioned that he would rather have a race car but I disagree with his statement only because I have seen his car and his lap times. His car is one of the prime examples tailored to these events.

.

How much faster and confident would I be with a full cage and missing 400 lbs? I'm ready but I really like my car and don't want to start over at this point. I enjoy using it more than working on it. I'm just stating the fact that I will build a race car next time around. Something similar to Brians.

[Track Junky]

How much faster and confident would I be with a full cage and missing 400 lbs? I'm ready but I really like my car and don't want to start over at this point. I enjoy using it more than working on it. I'm just stating the fact that I will build a race car next time around. Something similar to Brians.

I'd say at this point you are in the same league as a certain red car. Close to the same weight minus the hp.

If you had the hp and a little more wheel time.............:yes:

[Stuart Adams]

You guys keep building them faster and faster, because I enjoy watching the competition. I like the event, and it's nice it ties in with SEMA.

[Vegas69]

I'd say at this point you are in the same league as a certain red car. Close to the same weight minus the hp.

If you had the hp and a little more wheel time.............:yes:

Not even close my friend. :cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

I find it amazing that Mark, Kyle and a few others improved their times by 3 to 4 seconds per lap on the road course from last year.

[Steve1968LS2]

I really like this idea. Takes the individual cars out of the equation and puts it on the drivers. :thumbsup:

I thought this event was supposed to be about the car? ;)

[ccracin]

I thought this event was supposed to be about the car? ;)

No offense Scott, but I think Steve is correct! :thumbsup: